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If this has been done before I am sorry, I didn't see it. IMO Revan is stroger than Kun or Ulic, but Kun and Ulic are both stronger than Malak. What it the better team?

The Revan Exar thing has been debated before not sure about the team things...

But yeah I do think that Revan could take on Exar and win, however the fight would be damn hard and it would take forever. And I'm not quite sure on the Ulic Malak thing, it all depends on those two. Whomever of those two wins will join Exar or Revan and finish the other off. Winning this game once and for all.

Really i have no idea, so i shall refrain from voting for now...

Exar and Ulic.

I would say Exar and Ulic. Personally I think that Exar could beat Revan, but lets just say that they are equal. However, Ulic is better than Malak, so Ulic beats Malak, then it is both Exar and Ulic versus Revan. Revan is good, but he cannot stand up to both of them so he would lose, though Ulic would likely die.

I'm of the same mind. I think, until I see more Revan badassedness, that he's barely outmatched by Kun, and Ulic toppled Malak.

Kun could easily beat Malak...lol...Ulic...Revan would make mincemeat out of Ulic...leaves Exar and Revan...but I agree with Janus need to see more badassedness from Revan before I can give enuff credit to him to topple the da man....Exar rules! Ulic versus Malak.....................I go with what Fishy said there.....I would like to say Ulic but I just am not sure....perhaps another drink might help....lol...beer

Exar Kun and Qel-Droma.

Originally posted by Darth_Janus
I'm of the same mind. I think, until I see more Revan badassedness, that he's barely outmatched by Kun, and Ulic toppled Malak.

(No offense) but you have some strange logic sometimes. You say Bandon would defeat Maul because he killed more Jedi and that (someone I can't remember at the moment) was never defeated so he was very powerful, you think Tulak is all poweful because Kreia said so even though he has no accomplishments, and we've never seen him fight, and yet you think Revan would lose to Exar?

Let's review, Revan killed more Jedi, more Sith, and more mandalorians. He was never defeated, Kreia said he was power, staring into his eyes was like staring into the heart of the Force, he has tons of accomplishments and you want more?

Revan killed stronger opponents and more of them, had more experience, more potential, more knowledge, a stronger will, was a military genius, and was probably equal with Exar in lightsaber combat.

Exar is still EXTREMELY powerful and very very high up, but he's just not as strong as Revan.

To the original topic, I don't know because I don't know how strong Ulic is.

Revan33, first off, how do you know that Revan killed more jedi and sith than anybody else?
You forget that this is 40 years after the time of Exar Kun and he killed off loads of jedi as well, the order had not yet fully come back from that yet so Revan faced less people.
Also, how many people did he actually face in combat? It seemed like he more sent out soliders and other sith to do the fighting.
And yes, Revan was defeated, he was taken out by Malak at the beginning of KotOR when Malak fired on his ship. Yes cheap and if it was hand been hand to hand combat Revan would have won, but the fact remains that he did not have the foresight to see that Malak would betray him. And Exar was only defeated when 10 000 jedi came to kill him, yes he was defeated, but if 10 000 jedi came after Revan, he would lose as well. And it still took 14 jedi (12 padawans, NJO Luke and Kun's old master) to defeat Kun's 4000 year old glowing air particles. Pretty impressive.
About Kreia saying that Revan was like staring into the heart of the force, thats nice and all, but did she ever meet Exar? And she seems to be a little biased, being his former mentor and now subordinate.
And about the Mandalorians, personally I do not find it that impressive, sure maybe for an average jedi, but for any of the greats it is nothing exceptional. And Exar's apprentice, Ulic, defeated Mandalore and ruled the Mandlorians. So Revan defeating the next Mandalore is nothing exceptional since Ulic had defeated a more powerful Mandalore. I say that he defeated a more powerful one because Ulic left him alive, and after the defeat of Exar, the Mandalorians fled to the outer rim, so it is possible that Revan defeated the same Mandalore as Ulic, but Ulic did it 40 years earlier, when Revan defeated him, Mandalore may have been 70 years old.

Exar on the other hand was heavily involved in fighting, he destroyed suns (as did Ulic). He also walked right into the senate on Couscant, killed the chancellor, froze the entire senate, killed several jedi, and the republic could do nothing. He also walked into the most powerful place in the jedi order, Ossus, destroyed its sun, killed most of the jedi that were there, and they would have been masters, stole most of the artifacts, and then left. After doing this, he blew up the planet. And again the jedi could do nothing against him. To finally defeat Exar, it took 10 000 jedi, and even then he was still around for 4000 more years.

And here is some background info on Ulic for you, when he was growing up, he was considered a progidy, one of the best jedi even. He tamed the Onderon system when he was still an apprentice, killing a sith and numerous other people. He was urged to leave, but he decided to stay and fight the dark side from within, then he fell to the dark side.
He was the apprentice to Exar Kun, and nearly fought him to a standstill before Exar was proclaimed the dark lord.
He defeated Mandalore in single combat and ruled the Mandalorians. He led an assualt on Courscant and was betrayed and captured. Once he was freed by Exar, he killed the person who betrayed him by sending her to a planet and blowing up its sun, killing her.
Ulic also killed his own brother in combat and then when he realized what he did, he came back to the light and had his connection to the force stripped away fom him. After this he went into Exile for 20 years, not practising with a lightsaber or using the force (since it was taken from him).
Now I'll admit, this makes Ulic sound weak, but this is where it gets interesting. After being in exile for 20 years, not using the force or a lightsaber, Ulic was tracked down by the daughter of Nomi Sunrider because she wanted to be trained. I find this interesting, she was the daughter of the most powerful jedi at the time, yet she wanted to be trained by Ulic, knowing even in his weakened state, he was still stronger than Nomi was. Ulic agreed and started to train her. After a couple of months, they were tracked down again, this time by Nomi and another jedi knight, a cathar. A duel erupted between Ulic and the cathar jedi. The cathar jedi had been a jedi knight for several years and even fought against Ulic and Exar in the sith wars and was hailed a hero. She had also been using the force and training for the 20 years Ulic was in exile. Yet, Ulic was able to defeat a fully trained jedi master, who was using the force and was nearly on the dark side. He could not use the force, and had not used a lightsaber in 20 years. He also could not use the force to sense her movements and guide his lightsaber (which is the main reason jedi are so skilled with a blade), yet he was able to defeat her. Then when he turned to embrace Nomi (they used to be lovers), he was shot in the back. Even though he lost his connection to the force, his body still dissolved and he became one with the force.
He was also able to destroy suns at will.


From all this, I say that we do not know enough about Revan to say if he could or could not do those things that Exar did. And Ulic could beat Malak. Over-all, I stand by what I said before, Exar and Ulic win.

Ulic was slighty weaker than Exar.

"Let's review, Revan killed more Jedi, more Sith, and more mandalorians."

What have you been smoking? Exar killed hundreds, if not thousands of Jedi by HIMSELF. He also turned against the Mandalorians and killed the original Mandalore.

Exar killed more people than Revan.

I want to say Revan, cos I'm not really that familiar with either Exar or Ulic. But We stilldon't know all about Revan remeber.

Plus, are there any novels with Exar or Ulic?

not that I know of, but there are several comics. There are some books on Exar;s spirit though.

well sort of, they have comics about them, and Exar is in a book, but not as a main character. However, while in that book, he puts Luke into a coma (this is after RotJ), rips his soul from his body and possess animals and people with ease. He can also summon the sun crusher from the heart of a sun and use force lightning. However, he does not even have a body, he is like Obi-Wan, Yoda and Anakin were at the end of Return of the Jedi, glowing air particles. Yet Exar was still that powerful.

I think Kreia may have known Exar Kun. Why? Well, Exar Kun left the order less than fifty years before the events of KOTOR II. We all know that powerful Force practitioners age like fine wine. Kreia could have been easily eighty or ninety. She would know Exar Kun, as would Vandar, Vrook, and many others.

And because of the more numerous cases of Exar Kun showing amazing things, such as Darkstar posted, I still think he possessed more visible displays of power than Revan, even if we have not seen the former at his height yet.

But I disagree with him on a few points...

First off, Malak's deception isn't a defeat any more than Han Solo's shooting of Vader's TIE fighter was a sound defeat; it was not direct combat. It is the difference between killing a soldier with a bomb and with a knife. No glory, no honor, and no gauge of his ability. Besides, it was most likely the will of the Force in order for the plotline that Revan WOULD be betrayed and yet live.

Second, no one should discredit Revan's actual combat abilities based on the fact he was a damn good general, claiming all he did was lead troops. BS. You don't lead thousands of dark Jedi and Sith by being weak in combat. You wouldn't last the few years until Malak's betrayal.

About Mandalore.... There is another Mandalore that Revan killed, and he was as good a melee fighter as any Mandalorian could be. Perhaps not as good as the one Ulic fought, since this Mandalore wasn't a a Sith adept, but still...
Also, one of the Mandalorian leaders on the Ratakan planet was the next Mandalore, which Revan beat easily with a mere fraction of his power. And don't go off on that "Well, he had two comrades".... BS. You can beat that whole game alone if you have to, and game mechanics aside, by rep alone, Revan needed no allies in combat.


And to answer Revan33's observation, as much as I am strongly in Revan's camp, so to speak, he hasn't disaplayed enough power to topple Exar effortlessly... yet. So I must claim Exar the winner for now. And Malak is less than Ulic, who was amazing in his own time.

Originally posted by Darth_Janus
I think Kreia may have known Exar Kun. Why? Well, Exar Kun left the order less than fifty years before the events of KOTOR II. We all know that powerful Force practitioners age like fine wine. Kreia could have been easily eighty or ninety. She would know Exar Kun, as would Vandar, Vrook, and many others.

And because of the more numerous cases of Exar Kun showing amazing things, such as Darkstar posted, I still think he possessed more visible displays of power than Revan, even if we have not seen the former at his height yet.

But I disagree with him on a few points...

First off, Malak's deception isn't a defeat any more than Han Solo's shooting of Vader's TIE fighter was a sound defeat; it was not direct combat. It is the difference between killing a soldier with a bomb and with a knife. No glory, no honor, and no gauge of his ability. Besides, it was most likely the will of the Force in order for the plotline that Revan WOULD be betrayed and yet live.

Second, no one should discredit Revan's actual combat abilities based on the fact he was a damn good general, claiming all he did was lead troops. BS. You don't lead thousands of dark Jedi and Sith by being weak in combat. You wouldn't last the few years until Malak's betrayal.

About Mandalore.... There is another Mandalore that Revan killed, and he was as good a melee fighter as any Mandalorian could be. Perhaps not as good as the one Ulic fought, since this Mandalore wasn't a a Sith adept, but still...
Also, one of the Mandalorian leaders on the Ratakan planet was the next Mandalore, which Revan beat easily with a mere fraction of his power. And don't go off on that "Well, he had two comrades".... BS. You can beat that whole game alone if you have to, and game mechanics aside, by rep alone, Revan needed no allies in combat.


And to answer Revan33's observation, as much as I am strongly in Revan's camp, so to speak, he hasn't disaplayed enough power to topple Exar effortlessly... yet. So I must claim Exar the winner for now. And Malak is less than Ulic, who was amazing in his own time.

very well, I'll give you that. And I was not trying to make Revan sound weak, I was just pointing out that he was not involved in combat and was more of a general. Revan33 said that Revan killed more people than anyone, and I was disagreeing because he was a general, not on the front lines. But on every other point I agree. Well actually except for the Mandalore bit, yes Revan could have easily taken him by himself, but I don't think that he was a true Mandalore, he had only been around for what? 1 year. And Candarous said that in all his actions he did not act like a mandalorian.

Originally posted by Revan Darkstar
well sort of, they have comics about them, and Exar is in a book, but not as a main character. However, while in that book, he puts Luke into a coma (this is after RotJ), rips his soul from his body and possess animals and people with ease. He can also summon the sun crusher from the heart of a sun and use force lightning. However, he does not even have a body, he is like Obi-Wan, Yoda and Anakin were at the end of Return of the Jedi, glowing air particles. Yet Exar was still that powerful.

Man, you guys don't get it. At the end of KOTOR, Revan goes off and does something. You know what that is? HE DESTROYS THE SITH EMPIRE. And the next thing: Exar and Ulic were before both Malak and Revan. Revan was a great scholar and probably knew everything about Ulic and Exar. The only reason why Exar was still around 4000 years later, is because he took the life force from a ENTIRE RACE.

exactly, he stole the force from an entire race. He also killed that entire race.

And about him destroying the sith empire, how do you know? KotOR III hasn't been made yet, and yes he will, but he will have the Exile with him and loads of other people. And the sith empire now is hardly the empire it was 1000 years ago when Ragnos and Sadow lived. It is like comparing a common house cat to a tiger or a lion, no contest or comparision. They have very little in common. The current sith empire and the one 1000 years ago is completely different. Sort of like the Infinite Empire to the current Rakatans, they lost their power.

It says at the end, he went off to destroy the Sith Empire ALONE to make sure that none of the people he loved would die. And still, the Sith Empire wasn't one planet, it was a whole lot of planets. All Exar did was kill off a race on a moon. Revan probably killed three planets worth of a race.

Darkstar, glad we see eye to eye. I always thought we had. Sorry if there was any mistaking your intentions.

Kiu...

Revan didn't go out for the Sith empire. Actually he went to Malachor, sensed Nihilus, and began laying ground work to destroy the threat. After the defeat of Kreia, Revan than (Depending on alignments of the exile and Revan) either pwns the Exile's ass and leaves him to die or takes him with him. But as of the end of KOTOR II, Revan hadn't yet made a forray into Unknown Regions beyond the Outer Rim.

The guy on the planet was not Mandalore. It says above his head that he was a captain. CAPTAIN, NOT MANDALORE. He didn't even have the right armor, which is required to be Mandalore. Canderous also says in KOTOR 2 that he became the only Mandalore after the one killed by Revan.

I'm curious...

1) Where does it say he's not specifically?

2) What is the special mandalore armor? How do they keep it in tradition, since the Mandalore before could be spaced for all we know?

3) Canderous says what in KOTOR II? That he was Mandalore on Taris, working for Davik? Or was he Mandalore after Revan's victory, when he came back?

They were in the Outer Rim, and Revan said to Canderous that he needed to reunite the Mandalorian clans and to become the Mandalore. Canderousand the Mandalorian Sergent on Dantooine, jater says that after Malacor V, which is where Revan killed Mandalore, that no new Mandalore was elected. And the Sergent in KOTOR 2 on Dantooine also says that, "I always wanted to be Mandalore, anyone could make a replica of Mandalore's armor and declare them selves Mandalore....", so the armor must have something to do with it. Also, that guy on the Rakata planet was wearing Mandalorrian Assault Armor. This was given to Captains. Plus, it just so happens to have a bar above his head which describes what kind of enemy he is, and it says he is a Captain.

Fair enough. Did you actually get some of this information out of Canderous himself? He's always been tight lipped with me.

Actually she does say Revan had an amazing talent for doing that, more so then any Echani ever...



Obsidian and Bioware have however both been quoted on saying that the DS ending is the real ending.




The reason was both the star maps and that he was the only that could actually find the star forge and destroy it. They did however have other options then how they did it, and they obviously wanted Revan to do their work for them because they could not do so themselves. The Jedi were in no state to attack Malak, without Revan they would have died, they needed him and not just to find the Star Forge. They needed Revan to kill Malak.

Wow, in your own words, that's a lot of untrue crap you posted!

Handmaiden DID say Revan could predict wars, go play the game again or something.

LS is the cannonical ending right? Well, what lucas site says that, and in either case it's irrelevant because the topic says DARTH Revan, not just Revan.

Revan originally found the Star Maps, that doesn't mean other Jedi couldn't have found them too. Though this is a good reason, they still sent Revan to the Star Forge because they knew they needed him. The Jedi council would not have risked bringing a Sith Lord back unless they were confident that he would remain on the light side and be strong enough to defeat Malak.

Now here's what you said "So they are just barely trained padawans? And it even says that Luke and Vodo helped! Also, you said Kyp helped put Luke in the coma. Wow, I thought they were just barely trained padawans! Didn't someone just say they were just barely trained padawans? Ohhhhhhhh! It was you! You just always say things that counterdict what you said a few senticences earlier." Ahem, WRONG AGAIN! I never said Kyp was a barely trained padawan because he wasn't one of the Jedi destroying Exar Kun! He and Gantoris were being trained by him and became much, much stronger so they were FAR beyond the other weak Jedi. No, there is nothing in there to say Vodo or Luke's spirit helped. It says they wanted the Jedi to win. Like I said before, the only ones needed were Streen and Kirana Ti because they had the lightsabers and Streen is the one that resisted the Force Choke.
Don't assume. You know what happens when you do.

It doesn't matter what Corran says, he wasn't there and Luke was. Here's what it says in the book: "Kyp stretched out both hands and blasted Luke with lightning bolts like blue cracks in the Force. Exar Kun joined the attack, adding more deadly Force. Against the full might of Kyp Durron and the forbidden weapons of the long-dead spirit of Exar Kun, even a Jedi master such as Luke Skywalker could not prevail." Don't tell me I'm wrong when I'm not. It just makes you look pretty stupid.

And when it says "Kun topped them all" in the guide, it is referring ONLY to length of life. A longer life doesn't necessarily make you more powerful. Count Dooku lived longer than Anakin and he wasn't more powerful. I don't contradict myself a lot like you think. You just have to be smart enough to know what I'm saying.

Revan33,

GL says that the LS ending is the better one. Now you ask, why did he become Darth Revan still? Because later he regained his memories and knew what he was.

I like that idea. Though I would like a link to the lucas site where it says the cannonical one.

Since I did post Darth Revan, that means that it is from either before he was originaly detroned by Revan, OR, it is after, but still before he left to fight the TSE.

Also, Corran was their duing when Exar was attacking, he was just trying to destroy Exar Kun's Temple, the one that housed his spirit, during thetime that Exar was destroyed.


And I see that you are atleast somewhat desperate, because you only half posted what I said about the age thing. Go read what I typed, then read what you typed and you will see what I mean.

Actually I was just running out of time, I typed that all before school, and class was about to start so I quickly tried to finish, jumped in my car and took off.

Anywho, there really wasn't more to be said. It was not referring to power and people who lived longer were not necessarily stronger. Palpy only lived to be 90 some I think and he was pretty powerful. Besides, the whole reason Exar's spirit survived that long was because he drained the power from the entire Massassi race, preserving his spirit in the walls of his temple.

I dont mean to get nitpicky, but it was in the statue of him, not the walls,(shows how much you know), but anyway.


Sory, I can't find a link to show he's is a lightside male right now.

Darth Revan and Darth Malak win definetly.

evidence for this? at least Revan33 is putting forth ideas, which we counter, I get annoyed with people that just post like this:

Revan/Malak
Exar/Ulic
Revan/Malak
Exar/Ulic
Revan/Malak
Luke
Yoda
Vader etc.

please post facts next time, thanks

and remove the bananas

ulic arguably solos

Eh, Malak arguably solos. Depends on what sources you're wanting to look at.

Personally, I've never understood the hype around Ulic and Exar Kun. Some of the claims people make about them are so hilariously ill-informed that I just can't take them seriously.