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Wonder if Revan and Bastila can overcome the odds...

I doubt it. If Marka wasn't messed with or ambushed and killed in a century, he must be one bad ass mo fo.

I disagree, Marka was a good leader and only dealt with Korriban. The entire galaxy couldn't stop Revan.

That's a far fetched statement. Traitorous ship fire stopped him once. And if you think Marka Ragnos was weak for leading a whole planet of true Sith, including people like Sadow and Kressh, then you're mistaken.

Clouded this battle is... The power of the darkside clouds many victories, as well a defeat...

actually Marka reigned over at least 1/3 of the galaxy (probably the unknown regions or something similar in size). I think that was the size of the sith empire and he ruled it.

About the battle, while Bastila's really a non-factor here, she was a ship commander, not a fighter, which is shown when she gets man-handled by Malak on the Levithan. So that brings it down to Marka vs Revan, Marka wins. I could state facts but I have said then a dozen times before so I will only state them if someone actually puts forth a GOOD arguement (not Marka sucks ...)

Marka sucks.

Marka does suck...

He would win though, I really doubt the effectiveness of Bastila her battle meditation against an ancient Sith Lord, and Revan alone just wouldn't cut it in this fight... At least not from what we have seen him do.

LOL, Revan cant compete with the pure raw strenght and power(force, that is) if Ragnos. And bastila would be dead in a second.

Hey give the girl some credit, i'm sure Revan could protect her for at least five.

lol

Originally posted by Darth_Janus
That's a far fetched statement. Traitorous ship fire stopped him once. And if you think Marka Ragnos was weak for leading a whole planet of true Sith, including people like Sadow and Kressh, then you're mistaken.

I didn't say he was weak. I'm just saying no one tried to fight him. He only dueled against one person for sure that I'm aware of and he did win. I don't count the "traitorous ship" as defeating him because he was preparing to fight the Jedi boarding crew and Sith rarely fire on their master's ships. He defeated the Mandalorians when it was looking grim, then he turned around and defeated the Republic whom he just fought for, then he turned around and defeated the Sith, whom he just fought for. Then he goes off to destroy the ancient Sith empire single handedly. That's what I mean when I say the whole galaxy couldn't stop him.

As for Marka, 100 years without fighting and he wouldn't be all powerful. Sure he was feared by all those Sith, but all of Iraq feared Saddam and he wasn't all powerful. he was a good leader like Ragnos. Being feared and being by many Sith (one of whom could cause stars to go supernova) isn't enough to make me think he could defeat someone who had enormous potential, knowledge, willpower, experience, and fighting constantly like Darth Revan. Don't get me wrong, Marka's not at all weak, but I see nothing he did to make me think he's all powerful.

Marka I would say

Originally posted by Darth Revan33
I didn't say he was weak. I'm just saying no one tried to fight him. He only dueled against one person for sure that I'm aware of and he did win. I don't count the "traitorous ship" as defeating him because he was preparing to fight the Jedi boarding crew and Sith rarely fire on their master's ships. He defeated the Mandalorians when it was looking grim, then he turned around and defeated the Republic whom he just fought for, then he turned around and defeated the Sith, whom he just fought for. Then he goes off to destroy the ancient Sith empire single handedly. That's what I mean when I say the whole galaxy couldn't stop him.

As for Marka, 100 years without fighting and he wouldn't be all powerful. Sure he was feared by all those Sith, but all of Iraq feared Saddam and he wasn't all powerful. he was a good leader like Ragnos. Being feared and being by many Sith (one of whom could cause stars to go supernova) isn't enough to make me think he could defeat someone who had enormous potential, knowledge, willpower, experience, and fighting constantly like Darth Revan. Don't get me wrong, Marka's not at all weak, but I see nothing he did to make me think he's all powerful.

You're the kinda guy who needs a confession written in fresh blood with a video tape and eighteen witnesses, aren't you? There is such a thing known as logical assumption. And there is such a thing as stubbornness beyond hope.

Revan33, if you can't count the ship firing on him as a defeat, I'm afraid there is not alot I can say, you obviously believe Revan would waste all.

However, Malak did damage Revan to the point of death, if the jedi had not been there, he would have died, as it was he lost most of his memory. Yes, it was cheap, but the sith do not obey many rules, they win anyway possible. And yes that sortof thing does happen often, as soon as an apprentice sees an opening, they take it and kill the master.
What is impressive about Marka is that either nobody saw an opening, or they did but he was so powerful that even a capital ship firing on him would do nothing. Either way that is better than Revan.

And about Revan defeating the sith empire singlehandedly, well you are wrong about that, Janus posted a good thing on that in anoter article. I cannot remember it all, but Revan actually was trying to find a way the destroy Nihilus, not hunting down the sith empire. He does that after KotOR II, with the exile. And Kriea even says that the exile must go with him because he will need help.

Also, I'm almost ready to give up convicing you, but anyway, please read what you said, here it is, "Being feared and being by many Sith (one of whom could cause stars to go supernova) isn't enough to make me think he could defeat someone who had enormous potential, knowledge, willpower, experience, and fighting constantly like Darth Revan." Ragnos was feared by someone who BLEW UP STARS FOR THE HECK OF IT! Yet nobody tried to defeat him, even after he was dead and a ghost, he came back and the entire sith council, including Sadow and Kressh were so terrified of the guy that they bowed and obeyed anything he wanted. Also, his kind was hated, hated, it would be like a jew becoming the leader of germany during world war II and nobody doing a thing about it (no offense to any jews). That is the power he weilded.

And in the sith, it is reign of the strongest, thus he had lots of experience fighting to rise up through the ranks.

Earlier I said that Revan needed help to defeat the sith empire (as said by Kreia), this is significant because the sith empire now is weak, Sadow basically destroyed it. Yet he still needs help to defeat it, and Ragnos ruled over it during its height, the old sith empire under Ragnos would laugh at the current sith empire. Yet Ragnos ruled it and Revan needs help defeating the weak one, that alone should tell you that Ragnos wins.

I would be careful on that last point. The truth is we don't know the potential power of this new hidden threat. And it's been a millenia or more since Sadow. Things can rebuild. We'll know for sure later on.

oh yeah, I had forgotten that it was 1000 years since Sadow, thanks for correcting me

but I still think that the current sith empire is weaker since the republic destroyed the planet that most of the knowledge and masters were on when Sadow fled. What else remained Sadow took with him to Yavin IV where it was forgotten until the time of Exar Kun and after he died it was forgotten again. So the current sith would had to have started over with little knowledge from the old days.

I'm going to put my vote down for stalemate.

Now everything I know about Ragnos is gleaned from this board and the various websites posters have presented. Hopefully, I know as much as everyone else to make this decision.

I'd like to think I know what I'm talking about when it comes to Revan. One of my favorite characters in SW, not only do I just enjoy knowing stuff about Revan, but I've already sang his praises enough times in other threads to know what I'm doing.

So between a powerful Sith Lord who is remarked as one of the most powerful in the galaxy's history whose power has been seen (but not directly compared) to a powerful Sith Lord who was supposedly never challenged in a society literally built around treachery and power seizure (Revan33, the Sith don't care about powerful leaders; if the opportunity presents itself for an apprentice to usurp power for themselves, they will take it; the society be damned), but whose power has not really been seen, I call draw.

You're asking me to pick a clear winner between two of the most powerful beings to ever move through space and I don't think it can be done; this is a battle that would probably destroy an entire star system.

actually, the sith tradition is that the aprentice is supposed to challenge the master when he thinks hes strong enough to defeat him. that way the strongest will always rule. malak states that when you fight him on the star forge. but knowing the sith and how they act, i dont find what malak did surprising at all.

anyways, id have to go with wanderer. i like revan a lot too, although i dont know much about ragnos. but it seems as you guys are saying, that he was a very powerful sith lord. so based on what ive heard about ragnos froom you guys, and the fact that i dont know much about him, i say draw.

One thing Darkstar you said Malak defeated Revan, does that mean you think that Lando defeated Vader and the Emperor along with a million stormtroopers in less then five minutes?

Well if it was hand-to-hand, Malak would have lost badly, but still, he managed to damage Revan so badly that his mind was destroyed and if Bastila had not saved him he would have died, so yes I count that as a voctory for Malak, VERY cheap yes, but still a victory.

And no I don't think that Lando won, like I said above, if Malak (or Lando) actually had to face them in real combat they would have lost, but the fact is that they won. Malak nearly killed Revan and Lando broke Han and Leia out of Bespin.

So Lando did win from the Emperor and Vader and a lot of stormtroopers..

Now I know that what you say is right, but I just can't and won't count that as a victory of Malak over Revan or that Revan was somehow defeated. IMO he was just kicked out of position for a little while, not defeated and especially not by Malak. If anything the guy that pressed the button to open fire defeated Revan.

Just like Lando killed the Emperor, Vader and countless of Stormtroopers

lol

Hm. When we consider victories here we must consider them in their natural state... Are they ambushes? Unfair advantages? Etc. Otherwise, Bush singlehandedly pwns anyone who is unlikely enough to be caught under an American bomb, since we're not making distinctions. (Note to readers, avoid political pun and move on)

But Revan's mind was supposively damaged by the attack... And yet he regained all of his memories, most within a year or two. Quite impressive.

We should look at how and why and by who...

Revan his ship was defeated by Malak his ship when he was weak, nothing wrong with that, it just wasn't a personal victory for Malak. It was more a victory for his fleet or whatever... Malak never won

Revan never won against Mandalorians then...Nor against the Republic...

Revan personally? No he didn't. He as a general however did. Malak as a commander won from Revan his forces but thats it. It wasn't a personal victory it can be granted to him but he never really defeated Revan.

Just like Revan didn't really defeat the Mandelorians, although he did defeat Mandalore which could be seen as the same thing. He was a general, and unless he destroyed all their fleets themselves he did not destroy the Mandelorians nor the republic, he was just responsible for the destruction of the Mandelorians and the Republic.

But he did not single handedly defeat all of them, nobody can say he did. Just like Malak never single handed defeated Revan, which was the entire topic here. He as a commander beat Revan but he himself did not beat him.

I hope thats clear, because I think i'm ranting now

ya thats what I was trying to say but it never came out right, thanks

and actually, the point of this thread is who would win, Ragnos vs Revan & Bastila

Ragnos and Revan versus Bastila. Yeah. Bastila wins.

Ragnos would own the two of them...

really?

Yeah, i'm sure he would defeat Revan, Bastila is a none factor in this battle

Revan>>>>>>>>Jaden Korr>Marka Ragnos

Exploding suns wouldn't matter, because if Ragnos did that, he would die as well.

Originally posted by Fishy
Yeah, i'm sure he would defeat Revan, Bastila is a none factor in this battle You have it wrong my friend... Bastila could be a human body shield... Didn't think about that did you...

Okay so that just delays Revan his dead by one strike...

Originally posted by Lord Slaughter
Revan>>>>>>>>Jaden Korr>Marka Ragnos

Exploding suns wouldn't matter, because if Ragnos did that, he would die as well.


Marka alive>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Marka ghost!!!!!!!!!! 5000 year old ghost!!!!!

Amd Marka didnt make suns explode, his apprentice did, u know the one who never dared to challenge him, because he was so powerfull? Ignorance...
Marka would probably beat them with his hand broken...

Originally posted by Naga Sadow
Marka alive>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Marka ghost!!!!!!!!!! 5000 year old ghost!!!!!

Amd Marka didnt make suns explode, his apprentice did, u know the one who never dared to challenge him, because he was so powerfull? Ignorance...
Marka would probably beat them with his hand broken...

Just like you said, his apprentice did. Everything about these two revolves around Naga exploding stars. How would that help in a fight? Why didn't Naga ever challenge Marka? Probably the same reason Vader never killed the Emperor. He wanted that power but the Emperor had a lot of supporters and Vader couldn't destroy them all. Those loyal to Marka would've ganged up on Naga's sorry ass and slaughtered him.

I give Marka a lot of respect, he's undoubtedly powerful. But (imo) we don't have enough info about him to think he's better than everyone else. Same thing with Tulak.

Now it's time to wait for the inevitable replies of Fishy and Darth_Janus

Ass. You knew I couldn't resist the temptation... lol

It's not the act of blowing up stars; it's the enormous potential needed. Naga Sadow was very influential, as was Ludo Kressh. Of the two, I believe Sadow was the better, and would have had no problem solidifying his rise to power in any case. Look how easily he led the Sith against the Republic!

So influence wasn't keeping Sadow from gutting Ragnos, because everyone hated him. He was a half breed and Sith, true Sith like Ludo and Naga, hated half breeds. And it wasn't out of respect or loyalty that Sadow allowed Ragnos to live. ONce you eliminate the possibilities, it becomes obvious that Sadow COULDN'T defeat Ragnos and knew it.

Originally posted by Darth_Janus
Ass. You knew I couldn't resist the temptation... lol

It's not the act of blowing up stars; it's the enormous potential needed. Naga Sadow was very influential, as was Ludo Kressh. Of the two, I believe Sadow was the better, and would have had no problem solidifying his rise to power in any case. Look how easily he led the Sith against the Republic!

So influence wasn't keeping Sadow from gutting Ragnos, because everyone hated him. He was a half breed and Sith, true Sith like Ludo and Naga, hated half breeds. And it wasn't out of respect or loyalty that Sadow allowed Ragnos to live. ONce you eliminate the possibilities, it becomes obvious that Sadow COULDN'T defeat Ragnos and knew it.

You, resist one of my posts? The Force is with you young Janus, but you are not a Jedi yet.

Anyway, good point but I still think there's a good chance his star detonation ability is more like Bastila's battle meditation. More like a gift then a power. Besides, blowing up stars and dueling are two totally different things. ESB Yoda could lift an X-Wing with the Force one handed but probably couldn't duel anymore (since he died a year later).

As for him going up against the Republic, we saw how well that worked, piss poorly. And if he's so powerful, how come he went into hiding like a coward instead of at least trying to destroy the Republic.

My opinion is Lord Revan is superior to Naga in nearly every way and we don't know enough about Marka or Tulak for that matter to really compare the two equally. One or two things about them is more like a one-sided argument to me, not enough info and there hasn't been anything based on Marka or Tulak.

Marka didn't fight the republic because he was scared of it, not because he saw the thread but because he had heard of it. Of the rumours, he did not want to risk it. But others did and in order to make sure that they did not attack the Republic he let himself be attacked.. So he did fight a lot, from a lot of Sith that hated his guts.

And yeah this might be a stupid argument but its fun anyways. Marka is seen as the most powerful Sith but we hardly know anything about him. Revan is one of the most powerful Sith, but we still don't know everything about him. We haven't seen his power, we don't know what he can or can not do.

I agree with you there Fishy.

Glad we could at least agree on something

Ditto, oh and I finally changed my name from Darth Revan33 to Emperor Revan so yeah, it's still me.

The avatar kinda gives it away

lol

Originally posted by Fishy
The avatar kinda gives it away

Oh, right. I knew that...