The general public and Qui-Gon Jin

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Naredhel
What have people without Star Wars discussions like this one said of Qui-Gon Jin? Because one of my friends just thought that the dialogue meant QGJ was alive... And thinking about it, it does seem a bit like that!

tlbauerle
Interesting...yet another reason to see the shimmering force ghost of the Jinninator. I think Lucas needed to take a step back here and think it though...

Lazerlike42
It's not his fault he intended to do this and would have liked it just as much as the rest of us, but Liam Neeson wouldn't take part for whatever reason. Not much he could have done about this one I suppose.

moviejunkie23
really lazer i thought it was already filmed???

Lazerlike42
It doesn't matter if it's already filmed the actor can always say no you can't use that, have a contract dispute or whatnot.... I'm not 100% sure but that does seem to be the very general consensus

moviejunkie23
so you heard that it was filmed but cut at the discretion of liam???

Lazerlike42
That's the word that's around.... I asked some guy if it was confirmed and he said yes but never gave a source

Darth Bong
Damn that Liam Neeson, I was disappointed in not seeing Qui-Gon's ghost. smokin'

((The_Anomaly))
yes, this was my biggest dissipointment of the movie i think...

even his voice talking to yoda would have been ok, but nothing kinda pissed me off...

tlbauerle
Originally posted by Lazerlike42
That's the word that's around.... I asked some guy if it was confirmed and he said yes but never gave a source

From around where?? So far I've heard it from.................you.

Sources please.

jengafett
Liam Neeson did record his dialogue. Lucas felt the scene would be redundant because Yoda explains it in the end.

DeVi| D0do
I heard that Neeson didn't want to be in the films... this is the first I've heard that the scenes were filmed but cut at Neeson's disire...

interesting. Neeson is an ass.

The scene really wasn't very good anyway, so I'm happy...

tlbauerle
At OT.com they have a quote saying the Qui-Gon cameo will be added as a Deleted Scene. Sounds like it was filmed with more than a voice.

Still waiting to hear on sources saying Neeson wanted it cut...sounds like bullshit to me.

Darth MoonPIE
I'll never watch another nesson movie if he didnt want to be in it or had it cut or something...BOYCOT LIAM

yerssot
MoonPIE... if he signed a contract, he can't ditch it
they simply deleted the scenes cause of timerestraint, not because he didn't want to be in the movie

Obi-wan2005
what? everyone saw he was killed in episode one...stabbed in the stomach....and if that didnt kill him he was burned...he was a force ghost on the planet he's dead though (well sort of he still there but not mortal)..so no he is not alive that was not actually in the movie, maybe there was a sceane in it as him being a force ghost but thats it.

HAROLD
Why wouldn't Neeson want to be in the film?

Obi-wan2005
he probally thought he did a good job in the first and didnt want to ruin it.

mysterio69
Originally posted by Obi-wan2005
what? everyone saw he was killed in episode one...stabbed in the stomach....and if that didnt kill him he was burned...he was a force ghost on the planet he's dead though (well sort of he still there but not mortal)..so no he is not alive that was not actually in the movie, maybe there was a sceane in it as him being a force ghost but thats it.
he was killed in episode I?!?!?!?!
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!! -in vader's voice-

DenKi
hes a Fool, and George Lucas is an even BIGGER idoit for not telling/explaining to us How the Force Ghost works.

The only thing what remains is the DVD or TV series coming soon, i hope they tell us somthing atleast

Obi-wan2005
holy shiz....you are pretty stupid its all simple..(but long...i have to go fing it give me a few seconds..

Obi-wan2005
sorry about the double post but here it goes...

Anyways, let's begin:


1) Darth Plageius is rumored to be a Sith Lord who mastered the ability to manipulate midichlorians to create life. Life can be many different things. It can be plants or animals or even energy. It doesn't necessarily mean a person. I think this is why many people are incorrectly assuming that Darth Sidious's explanation indicated that the Sith created Anakin. This is an easy mistake to make, but I think one must look at the context of the subject. It was meant to draw Anakin in by his fears and his lust for power.

" I'll be able to stop a person from dying." - Anakin

2) Midichlorians are microscopic lifeforms in all living things that are directly connected to the "energy field that binds the universe", constantly speaking the will of the Force to any willing to listen, preferable those apt to study its nature. Namely Jedi and Sith.

3) Qui-Gon's studies and interest in the living Force, namely the constant evolving energy field that is interactive with life itself, drew him to possibly seek out the legend of Darth Plageius. Or just in Force life thoery itself. Either way, Qui-Gon discovered that midi-cholorians can indeed bring forth life. It's a study that only he would make. It's why no one else knew of it or even attempted its study. Qui-Gon was the rebel. He constantly defied the Order. He searched out the truth of it all.

This is further emphasized by a statement he made in The Phantom Menace.

"No one can kill a Jedi."
"I wish that were so."

This attitude is not in alignment with the teaching of the Jedi. Yoda stated in Episode III that...."death is natural." One might conclude that the Jedi are taught to not fear death, but embrace it.

However, Qui-Gon didn't seem to be comfortable with the concept of death. Hence his line in TPM and his private studies in an attempt to avert death.

Perhaps if Qui-Gon never died, Anakin might have been his pupil and both would have learned to master the technique, passing along the knowledge to all their students and decendents. It would be a new chapter in the existence of the Jedi. It would have been beautiful.

4) The blue energy field around a Force ghost is a result of manipulated midichlorians after death. This training that Yoda spoke of to Obi-Wan and first achieved by Qui-Gon would have involved being in tune with the living force during life. One would have to constantly be attuned to the here and now.

"....keep your mind on the here and now, where it belongs."
"But Master Yoda said I should be mindful of the future."
"But not at the expense of the moment. Be mindful of the living Force, my Young Padawan."

Here is another open contradiction of the teaching of the Jedi and Yoda in particular. Can you see where this is going guys?

In order to achieve the Force Ghost, a Jedi must be constantly attuned to the living Force. This is achieved through the midichlorians. One must be constantly attuned to their distinctive voices, otherwise, one could not be able to control them after death.

Qui-Gon was inadvertently attempting to teach this to Obi-Wan without telling him exactly what he was doing. It's why Obi is successful at it later. It's also why Yoda wasn't aware of its possibility. It goes against the training of the Jedi, who are constantly trained to contemplate how their actions will affect the future. Their minds are always on the future.

I always wondered the significance of these lines in the prequels. Lucas has given us everything we need to understand the Force Ghost theory.

5) It also explains how Anakin is able to achieve the Force Ghost. This is a little crude, but it's pretty simple. Qui-Gon taught Obi-Wan. Obi-Wan taught Anakin. There was a legacy between them. I propose that Anakin was able to do it without "training" because with so many midichlorians at his disposal, he was constantly attuned to their presence. Also, Anakin's loss plays a part in it as well. Losing Padme broke his attention on the future. The worst had come. In a sense, for Anakin, the future was a bleak darkness. So he no longer "..concentrated on his anxieties, and kept his mind on the here and now."

It was why he was so effective in adulthood as the Dark Lord of the Sith. He finally got his mind off his fears and focused on the here and now, executing the Emperor's orders with precision. He matured into an adult. It's a reflection of how Anakin might have been if he were to have properly adhered to the Jedi teaching. When Anakin died, he had everything he needed to achieve the Force Ghost. He had an incalculable midichloriancount ( the readings are off the chart, over 20,000"wink, and a mind constantly attuned to the living force after Padme's death.

5) Sith cannot become Force Ghosts because of their nature. Unscrupulous plotting and planning, scheming, constantly thinking of the future. There minds not on the here and now.

Yoda even hints at the training in Empire:

"...mind never on where you are, what you are doing."

--So that's it!! I hope this helps, and finally puts a rest on the subject for all you who are interested. It even clears up the debate on Anakin able to be a Force Ghost without having any "official" training.

by southtownbluz

unno
Umm, just a quick question. Am I the only one who thinks it's laughably ridiculous that Neeson would have a clause in his contract giving him the right to edit part of the film? As if control-freak Lucas (or pretty much any director) would give his actors any control over post-production. roll eyes (sarcastic)

Unno

tlbauerle
Originally posted by Obi-wan2005
what? everyone saw he was killed in episode one...stabbed in the stomach....and if that didnt kill him he was burned...he was a force ghost on the planet he's dead though (well sort of he still there but not mortal)..so no he is not alive that was not actually in the movie, maybe there was a sceane in it as him being a force ghost but thats it.

Of course we were talking about the Force Ghost appearance of Qui-Gon Jinn...we aren't as stupid as you think we are....at least according to your post.

Thanks for adding your conjecture to the how and finally getting on the train with the right conversation.

ab2421
That was interesting theory ObiWan2005... I wish Lucas would've explained it as he said he was going to do

darth cretin
If you look on the original script availiable on the internet there is a part of that line that is cut form the movie(for whatever reason)

YODA: One who has returned from the netherworld of the Force to train me . . . your old Master, Qui-Gon Jinn.

OBI-WAN: Qui-Gon? But, how could he accomplish this?

YODA: The secret of the Ancient Order of the Whills, he studied. How to commune with him. I will teach you.

OBI-WAN: I will be able to talk with him?

YODA: How to join the Force, he will train you. Your consciousness you will retain, when one with the Force. Even your physical self, perhaps.

Awesome explination of Qui-Gon obi2k5 that's amazing insight, your statement about Yoda's teachings in ESB as compaired to the PT show the great continuity Lucas has created when looking at the films a whole. The fact that in the above script Yoda says Qui-Gon is Training Yoda of all things shows that possibly the Jedi have learned from their stagnation and ready to train in all the Good things the force as to offer

Smegulated
HAY have you seen supershadows site latly its been 'defaced' HAHAHA
that site always made me laugh, ha ha

mtryder
OB2005 didn't come up with that- southtownbluz did. See the credit that he gives at the bottom of the post.

beatkids
Originally posted by DenKi
hes a Fool, and George Lucas is an even BIGGER idoit for not telling/explaining to us How the Force Ghost works.

The only thing what remains is the DVD or TV series coming soon, i hope they tell us somthing atleast

Why in gods name would lucas have to explain anything? If he explained everything in the star wars universe he would lose money. I think i'll explain the mystery behind yoda...hmm...no one really knows about Darth Maul...i think i'll tell them his homeplanet, how he became dark, You know i might even just go into detail about General Grievious. How he became a cyborg. He might even tell us how anikins left arm got cut off when clearly his arm wasn't near his legs....

palpy_666
Originally posted by DenKi
hes a Fool, and George Lucas is an even BIGGER idoit for not telling/explaining to us How the Force Ghost works.

The only thing what remains is the DVD or TV series coming soon, i hope they tell us somthing atleast

Even if it's mentioned and/or explained, it will still be classified as EU and official, yet not official... no what I mean?

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