Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.

what would it mean, to any religion that has at it's core that *a* god(s) created Earth / Life on Earth (with no reference to other planets) and the whole "we are special" thing, if life on other planets is found?

doesn't it make "Genesis", for one, ... um... wrong?

There is a small chance that they don't exist, there is a very, very, very small chance that we will ever have any contact with them...

The bible said nothing about not making the alien worlds, maybe the extra terrestrials have a different bible witch talks about it, then again, religion is based on faith not fact so it wouldn't effect anything.

I believe the bible is just a fiction novel created for entertainment purposes...

Man will never no...

For a long time the Earth was considered to be the only world. Therefore extraterrestrials just weren't an issue for the Biblical writers.

Therefore the bible is full of shit

Gods have been created by humans to give a purpose to life, i recon there has to be other life 'cos the probability of life being created is so small that it is nearly impossible but here we are and if something happens once it can easily happen again!

Originally posted by Magee
Therefore the bible is full of shit

Well said.

If aliens could be proved, I bet many Christians would lose their faith in scripture since it doesn't mention it. Many believe that we've never gone to the moon, cause somewhere in the Bible it say that man will not leave the earth, or something like that.

oh and if earth was created in 6 days then dinosaurs could never of existed...
thats what i've heard from really religious friends...

i do think dinos existed. i can't wait till someone accidently finds one still preserved or alive. that would jus question peoples faith.

i believe that with all the space out there..there has got to be some other beings other than humans around. otherwise, it would really suck talking only to humans for all time. lol

What happened to that frozen mammoth? You can't have made it into a very hairy soup!

Aliens DO exist

I choose not to believe in aliens and I am sticking to it.JM

Originally posted by Jackie Malfoy
I choose not to believe in aliens and I am sticking to it.JM

Because you don't believe in the evidence some provide or because you choose to keep your head in the sand?

Nether.JM

There is no actual evidence either way.

However, they DO exist.

Okay, think of it this way.

Look up to the sky on a clear night and look at all the countless numbers of stars that you can see.

Now, let's say, for argument's sake, half of thos stars that we can see had planets revolving around them.

Okay, so now say that *those* half of the stars had planets that had livable conditions. (Right temeperature, water, air to breath, plants...)

Well, now let's say half of that half had microorganisms. (Bacteria etc.)

Now let's say that those half had some sort of multi-celled organisms living on them. (Animals.)

Now, we say half of that half had intelligent or semi-intelligent organisms living on them.

Do you follow?

Well, if not, I assume you get the picture. Anyway, now that we've halved and halved and halved and halved, do you know how many stars and star systems we still have left?



...



A LOT!



And that, my friends, is why I believe in aliens.

(Oh, and if you were wondering, I read something like this in a magazine, and it does have a very good point!)

how can WE be the only living matter in the entire universe.


so yes , i believe that aliens do exist

This may sound strange, but I've read that a source has it that our little world has been quarantined off from the rest of the universes because our beliefs and views are too primitive...Not reaching our higher good.

That life does exist on other planets, but they're not supposed to contact

us yet.

Oh...the things I read....

It's arrogant to believe that we're alone.

Originally posted by Solo
It's arrogant to believe that we're alone.

true. But humans are arrogant, are they not??

Originally posted by Solo
It's arrogant to believe that we're alone.

How so?Everyone has different reasons to believe or not to belived.No one can force them to believe in something that they don't.JM

Originally posted by Jackie Malfoy
How so?Everyone has different reasons to believe or not to belived.No one can force them to believe in something that they don't.JM
Well, if you're alone then I guess you can believe it, then.

Originally posted by Jackie Malfoy
How so?Everyone has different reasons to believe or not to belived.No one can force them to believe in something that they don't.JM

Why don't you believe in aliens?

okay, that's all I'm going to say... aliens? okay.....

Aliens know better then to visit us but they obviously exsist.

Why don't they visit us?

Because we'd cut them open, do horrible expirments on them in the name of "science" and give some half-ass excuse it's all justified for future cures and crapola. We'd appease the masses by saying they're extra-terrestials and don't feel pain. It doesn't help the fact that they look like fetsus, and don't get me started on how a liberal quantamn physist would use that oppurtunity to justify alien murder because time has not caught up with it yet (Which is why it looks like a fetus.) but has full conciounceness but sense it's not yet an embryo do to massive speed overdrive from the extradimensional plans it's not worth considering a "life". (Ignoring the fact that they kill embryos ANYWAY..)

Originally posted by DarkCrawler
Why don't you believe in aliens?

Why do you believe in aliens?jm

Originally posted by peterKSL
But humans are arrogant, are they not??
Very true.

Originally posted by Jackie Malfoy
How so?Everyone has different reasons to believe or not to belived.No one can force them to believe in something that they don't.JM

Do you even know what "arrogant" means? Your response makes no sense.

i thought the genesis story was a metaphor and that only evangelical christians took it literally??

i dont think we'll ever really experience aliens even if they do exist though.

Originally posted by Jackie Malfoy
Why do you believe in aliens?jm

Read my last post.

... And you will know.

Originally posted by Sar
i thought the genesis story was a metaphor and that only evangelical christians took it literally??

i dont think we'll ever really experience aliens even if they do exist though.

Maybe we'll experience them in 30 years or so....It'l give me a heart attack.

i feel if aliens would be proved to exist this would not put an end to
religion. Unless the aliens could somehow prove what there was after death if anything.

It wouldn't affect religion, no. It would affect 2 kinds of people:

1. The easily to influence: These would almost immediately give up whatever faith they had and be the first to stand on the roofs of skyscrapers with big neon "Take me with you" signs.

2. The headstrong hardcore religious fanatics: It would only bounce off them, but change them in the way that they'd say these are the demons sent by the Devil. And that they're here to test us.

All in all, humanity will always believe in something stronger than themselves, something that can be instrumental in their destinies. I for one believe there are stronger beings than us out there. Not necessarily entities, but beings none the less. here's an analogy: In the middle of the desert there's an anthill. Being the middle of the desert, no human's ever been there, so the ants don't know about the existence of humans. They have a strict hierarchy, a society if you will. They live their lives, each ant minding its own business. But they're not aware that 300 miles or whatever far away there are creatures a million times more powerful. Even omnipotent in their view (if the ants had sentience i mean). However, these incredible creatures that can preserve or destroy the anthill without even much trouble DO exist. The ants just aren't aware of it.

So....seeing that analogy, what's keeping you from thinking on a larger scale right?

~wickerman~

If aliens exist it changes Absolutly nothing in my life. Knowing that their is life billions of light years away would not change one damn thing on how my life functions, and i doubt it would change societies at all. Now if they came knocking on my door, that would be a different story. I doubt that an alien is going to travel across the universe just to make his way to my shitty neighborhood in Pittsburgh

Originally posted by ragesRemorse
Now if they came knocking on my door, that would be a different story. I doubt that an alien is going to travel across the universe just to make his way to my shitty neighborhood in Pittsburgh

maybe their getto aliens.

Originally posted by debbiejo
maybe their getto aliens.

yeah, thats true. But if that were the case, i would probably care even less.

Originally posted by debbiejo
If aliens could be proved, I bet many Christians would lose their faith in scripture since it doesn't mention it. Many believe that we've never gone to the moon, cause somewhere in the Bible it say that man will not leave the earth, or something like that.


I saw on the history channel that John Paul the 2nd confirmed the existance of aliens and that they where peaceful.

Originally posted by Magee
Therefore the bible is full of shit

Originally posted by mr.smiley
I saw on the history channel that John Paul the 2nd confirmed the existance of aliens and that they where peaceful.

Really? I've got to read about that! Maybe the REAL aliens are friendly and maybe they've been around all along...

Friendly = good.

Unless you are not good, then, of course, friendly woulld = bad.

it says in the Bible man will never leave Earth? Damn, people should really research things.

Originally posted by ragesRemorse
it says in the Bible man will never leave Earth? Damn, people should really research things.

can you be more specific? Or is it a statement, without research?

Originally posted by whirlysplat
can you be more specific? Or is it a statement, without research?

It is more of a statment driven by assumption. Maybe i missed it, but i never read anywhere in the Bible about Man being bound only to Earth.

Originally posted by ragesRemorse
It is more of a statment driven by assumption. Maybe i missed it, but i never read anywhere in the Bible about Man being bound only to Earth.

Fair enough

I've heard people say that was in the Bible somewhere and that's why some people don't believe we've been to the moon. That it was all staged. I'm gonna go look up that Pope thing. But maybe what the Pope was saying is that aliens are really angels..

if aliens exist then i would challenge them all to a game of Halo and pwn them all

but in all seriousness yes i believe they do exist but i think their existance is too irrelevent to current events to be noteworthy. if they dont exist than oh well if they do than whoopy dee doo.

Originally posted by hotsauce6548
However, they DO exist.

Okay, think of it this way.

Look up to the sky on a clear night and look at all the countless numbers of stars that you can see.

Now, let's say, for argument's sake, half of thos stars that we can see had planets revolving around them.

Okay, so now say that *those* half of the stars had planets that had livable conditions. (Right temeperature, water, air to breath, plants...)

Well, now let's say half of that half had microorganisms. (Bacteria etc.)

Now let's say that those half had some sort of multi-celled organisms living on them. (Animals.)

Now, we say half of that half had intelligent or semi-intelligent organisms living on them.

Do you follow?

Well, if not, I assume you get the picture. Anyway, now that we've halved and halved and halved and halved, do you know how many stars and star systems we still have left?



...



A LOT!



And that, my friends, is why I believe in aliens.

(Oh, and if you were wondering, I read something like this in a magazine, and it does have a very good point!)



My thoughts exactly

Yeah. Ignorance is the issue, but anyways, the proof is right there and we all know it. The volume and space of the entire universe holds countless numbers of galaxies and so on, which would be a happy home to millions of other Aliens.

I wonder if Aliens right now are on their own Alien KMC forums on their own Aliens Computers which hook up to their own Alien Internet providers asking about their own Aliens out there questions.

IF THEY DID MY ASS WOULD BE UP THERE TO SHOOT THE HELL OUT OF THEM!

whoa

They do exist, its just a matter of what planetary sytem and what galaxy they live in.

Originally posted by whirlysplat
what would it mean, to any religion that has at it's core that *a* god(s) created Earth / Life on Earth (with no reference to other planets) and the whole "we are special" thing, if life on other planets is found?

doesn't it make "Genesis", for one, ... um... wrong? I'm sure they do. The http://www.bibleufo.com/ It might seem like science fiction but people have reported seeing them and some have been abducted by aliens. I really don't think they're just making it up.

I have a feeling religion would survive. It has survives the revelations the Earth is not flat, that it is older then 7000 years, that there is a whole universe out there, that dinosaurs existed long before man did and so forth...

And there is evolution, maybe aliens evolved by themselves without a God, or maybe people will believe they represent Angels,and there are those who believe the bible makes referance to Aliens, just like there are those who believe some Mayan images portray spacemen etc. Regardless religion seems to have the ability to survive anything, so who knows. Still, it would be interesting to see. Even more interesting the the Aliens also have religion.

Religions will probably survive, but my include the worship of aliens to some.

After seeing War of the worlds. I have come to the conclusion that if aliens exist, we're probably screwed.

Beam me up scotty, there is no intelligent life on this planet.

Originally posted by ragesRemorse
After seeing War of the worlds. I have come to the conclusion that if aliens exist, we're probably screwed.

Well, if they have high-tech technology then perhaps....

If they have high tech they could have good electronic entertainment.

Originally posted by Atlantis001
If they have high tech they could have good electronic entertainment.

But it wouldn't be part of my "Rock and Roll fantasy."

Originally posted by ragesRemorse
After seeing War of the worlds. I have come to the conclusion that if aliens exist, we're probably screwed.

War of the worlds is not scientifically accurate just bs entertainment. The most likely view on aliens is if they are far more advanced than us they would most likely be evolved past the primitive urge to conquer others.

aliens DO exist. i know it. and im a religious guy, and i say they do exist. im very passionate about the fact that aliens exist, ive actually thought about going into a career into paranormal investigation, but i get freaked out about nething with ghosts, but aliens dont freak me out.

I think Aliens exist also. If what scientist say that the Universe is unlimited. There is a very good chance E.I. exist.

not entirely accurate. If memory serves, the old theory went like this:

If an alien race comparible to our own were to ever make contact, most likely they would mean us no harm. To have reached the technological level to transverse the universe, the race would almost certainly be very old......to have become so advanced. For a race to have survived that long it would need to have done away with war long ago for two reasons. One, to prevent itself from bringing about it's own end via powerful weaponry. Two, to have the time and resources to devote to this technology instead of devoting them into creating weaponry and battling.

The catch is, "comparible to our own". What causes all the war/strife on our planet? Differences. Different races......different religions.....different ideas/beliefs. What if an alien planet existed where the only intelligent lifeforms did not have such distinctions and differences? What if they were say, like a colony of bees? There would be no reason for them to battle among each other........and there would be no other intelligent life for them to battle. This would free up their time and resources into advancing their technology and civilization. This does not mean they would be any friendlier to any other race they came across in their travels through the universe. It would probably mean the opposite. Without having such differences within their society that we have, no sensitivity to others who are different would have ever been stressed. They would have never learned to love others despite their differences........they would never have learned tolerance as they would never have had anything different from themselves to tolerate.

if aliens did exist, it would be like that game that just came out called, "destroy all humans."

Originally posted by fruits
aliens DO exist. i know it. and im a religious guy, and i say they do exist. im very passionate about the fact that aliens exist, ive actually thought about going into a career into paranormal investigation, but i get freaked out about nething with ghosts, but aliens dont freak me out. You might enjoy this site then, http://www.bibleufo.com/ They're watching us.

yes, the end is near and the mark of the beast is among us, but still no sign of the Antichrist leader yet.

well we are aliens in a way and they exiscte well maby we havent searched the wole galaxie

i believe aliens exist... but i dont believe that we will ever see them.. how can we be the only planet that has a sun where you can live on... i think there many more planets where aliens live... space never ends

I agree with you........but rather confusing the way you wrote that. All planets have suns.......a star they orbit around. The parameters of space are not known. The general theory is ofcourse that space is endless as it's constantly expanding outward from the big bang........this however is just a theory, just like the big bang itself, not fact.

Do aliens exist? yes. Do intelligent aliens exist? yes. The question is where they exist. It will be a long, long time before our race is advanced enough to transverse the stars to find them. We are nowhere near having the technology to bend space to travel these great distances in a lifetime....

I think there are many civilizations out there who are many times more technologically advanced than we are. I do believe aliens have swung by our planet from time to time to check it out.............much like some of our scientists swing by a swamp every now and again to check out the ecosystem and it's inhabitants. I do however think all of these UFO nuts and people who claimed to be abducted are full of shit.

I don't think a definitive answer will ever come until we reach the point that our race is capable of travelling to other solar systems, then galaxies. I believe that will provide sufficient reason for any other alien races to stop by more often........making sure we stay close to home and don't go around ****ing up the rest of the universe.

what i meant was..

i dont see how its possible that in the whole universe there isnt another planet like ours, i

well.......if one thing's clear in our universe, there really isn't any uniformity. You can study the tree bark on millions of trees and never find the same pattern.............you can study the shapes of snow flakes and never find the same pattern. It is quite possible that Earth is unique unto itself........just as Saturn is.......just as Mercury is.......just as every planet in existence could possibly be.

The thing is.......we don't need to find another planet like ours nor does one need to exist to harbor life. There is much difference between the tropical rain forests of South America and the Gobi desert.........but life exists in both. They are merely different types of life, suited to different environments.

One of the main elements needed to sustain life on earth is water. The other used to be sunlight.........until we sent cameras down thousands of feet in the ocean to find life thriving without ever seeing sunlight......gathering heat from thermal vents in the ocean's floor. Water is so important to life on our planet because all life on it that we know of need it to survive, to produce energy. That does not mean life on other planets would even need it. All planets may be unique. There could be countless species on countless planets which have found other sources of energy than the sun or water. Hell, other species on other worlds may have evolved from different elements.........our planet may be the only one that harbors carbon based life. If that be the case, all bets are off.......as we on earth only know what the carbon based lifeforms on Earth need to survive......and even that knowledge is constantly changing.

Originally posted by debbiejo
This may sound strange, but I've read that a source has it that our little world has been quarantined off from the rest of the universes because our beliefs and views are too primitive...Not reaching our higher good.

That life does exist on other planets, but they're not supposed to contact

us yet.

Oh...the things I read....

Chariots of the Gods? I've read it too... It's a... compelling book.

Also, I was going to add.... For any of you interested in reading that book (Chariots of the Gods? Published in the 1960s by a German author, in English) it addresses the hypothesis that aliens are coming to earth and have been here... and then some. The Bible, among other things, is a source. I highly recommend it.

First off Im not religious but my family is, and the bible does mention "aliens".....sort of kinda like everything else in the book. I dont exaclty what it says but ill post later.

that would be something, if the bible did mention aliens.

because the universe is believed to be ever expanding.........even if not, it is quite big. We humans have not even explored our own Milky Way galaxy, one of billions of galaxies.

To declare yourself to be the only life in existence when you've not even explored . 00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000
00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000
0000000000000000000001% of the universe is quite arrogant, and stupid. Only a moron would proclaim something of the nature. There are 6 billion people on our planet. That would be the equivelant of someone never leaving their house and proclaiming, "I'm the only person in existence with brown eyes". Quite the moron he would be, agree?

somewhat

Aliens..
Haven't put much thought into that but it could be possible.
I read that in mars they found what had looked like a human face.
A model to be exact. It was carved perfectly into a rock.

Not IF they DO exist, and they surely are many more higher developed than humanity, I believe them to have excellent knowledge of parapsychology, science, and who knows what more.

aliens are real. now by watching war of the worlds i believe that in all honesty we just dont know the mtives. its easy to say oh aliens are here to whipe us all out. but truthfully they are real but in all note no one knows what the plan is. u never know they could come in peace.

True, but what makes you so certain aliens exist.

I believe that aliens DO exist. But question is, what if WE make contact first with another planet? What if, after million years or so our technology is so good taht we can travel between lightyears with ease? And what if we found an species that is in same point that we are now? That would probably be cavemen to us.

I doubt there is no other race (or races) in the universe, but I seriously doubt we will ever meet them in the next 200 years

Originally posted by Fire
I doubt there is no other race (or races) in the universe, but I seriously doubt we will ever meet them in the next 200 years

You see the proablility of meeting them at any specific moment is very low

However, the probability of some kind of contact eveidence of alien life, allbeit a micro-organism is very high.

But thats not the question at the start of this thread

I know

What if Aliens exist?

We exist, therefore, aliens do exist. Life exist in the universe; the universe is filled with life.

That sounds a little alien to me......But then again....we are aliens.

yep, from different countries.

There are too many planets in this universe for there not to be self-aware life on at least a few others.
The existence of aliens would not disprove the bible.

please explain what makes a planet "suitable" for intelligent life. We only know of one form of intelligent life in the universe, ourselves.......and even then the basic requirements are the same for non-intelligent life on the same planet.

what are the requirements?

That is all a bunch of rubbish. There are no requirements that we know of. The only life we know of is carbon based and depends on water. That is the only life we know of because we've only been on one planet.......to observe what life on that particular planet needs to survive, what evolution on that planet has centered life around.

It's very possible that Earth is unique and the life on it. It's entirely possible that we are the odd man out. There could be trillions upon trillions of lifeforms in our universe that couldn't survive on Earth......and are not even carbon based.

of course aliens exist. think about it:
people like to think the universe started at the big bang millions of years ago. for all you know, there have been billions upon googaplexes of big bangs, the universe always sucking itself in, exploding, blah blah blah. and about the whole "humans are special, made in gods image" thing, wasnt there life on earth long before humans? doesnt that mean life on other planets is completely possible? if you arent a brainwashed religious follower this question isnt even an issue. if our one sun has 9 or even more planets circling around it, and there are billions of stars that we know of, its freakin obvious. thats only in the eyes of what humans know. humans have only seen an infinitecimal piece of the universe. nothing is special, especially not humans. the universe wont care when theyre gone.

well we can't be the only life out there.
unless life itself wasn't intended to occur

Originally posted by gls
oh and if earth was created in 6 days then dinosaurs could never of existed...
thats what i've heard from really religious friends...

i do think dinos existed. i can't wait till someone accidently finds one still preserved or alive. that would jus question peoples faith.

i believe that with all the space out there..there has got to be some other beings other than humans around. otherwise, it would really suck talking only to humans for all time. lol

Dinosaurs were mentioned in the bible. As for aliens, I do believe they exist. I do not believe that we have made contact with them, since they are logically distant from us. They are so far away, that they do not affect life as we know it, and so there is NO point in talking about it.

They can feel free to come over at my house for a cup of tea whenever.

Maybe they will...

So what if they do? If they do, it means they a) decided not to contact us b)are too stupid to contact us c)are secretly watching us. makes no difference. Maybe in the future it would, but not now.

Originally posted by Sir Whirlysplat
what would it mean, to any religion that has at it's core that *a* god(s) created Earth / Life on Earth (with no reference to other planets) and the whole "we are special" thing, if life on other planets is found?

doesn't it make "Genesis", for one, ... um... wrong?

How would it make Genesis wrong? Genesis deals with the Earth and its inhabitants, not what is out in the universe. It would not debunk God for me at all. In fact it says God created the universe, that would mean He created whatever is out there.

and what if they don't...

I do think there is alien life 'out there'
If there weren't it just seems like a lot of space is going to waste.

And if we ever find proof there is alien life I'm sure most religions would find a way to assure that the bible predicted it.

They will be sent back to mexico.

The green ones too?

Originally posted by debbiejo
The green ones too?

Especially the green ones.

I think they do exist!

Originally posted by BobbyD
I think they do exist!

So do I, but I don't think they are anywhere near Earth.

How do you know?....Maybe there are many types of them, and some are more evolved then us, and wouldn't want to be found out and others are lilke us...barbaric.

Originally posted by debbiejo
How do you know?....Maybe there are many types of them, and some are more evolved then us, and wouldn't want to be found out and others are lilke us...barbaric.

The distance of space will stop all but the supper advanced, and if they were here, they would do a better job of studying us. We would never know.

They can be superior in knowledge and travel but inferior in behavior or moral type thing.....

Originally posted by hotsauce6548
However, they DO exist.

Okay, think of it this way.

Look up to the sky on a clear night and look at all the countless numbers of stars that you can see.

Now, let's say, for argument's sake, half of thos stars that we can see had planets revolving around them.

Okay, so now say that *those* half of the stars had planets that had livable conditions. (Right temeperature, water, air to breath, plants...)

Well, now let's say half of that half had microorganisms. (Bacteria etc.)

Now let's say that those half had some sort of multi-celled organisms living on them. (Animals.)

Now, we say half of that half had intelligent or semi-intelligent organisms living on them.

Do you follow?

Well, if not, I assume you get the picture. Anyway, now that we've halved and halved and halved and halved, do you know how many stars and star systems we still have left?



...



A LOT!



And that, my friends, is why I believe in aliens.

(Oh, and if you were wondering, I read something like this in a magazine, and it does have a very good point!) yeah i do agree on that i think the exact same thing, i don't think we are alone in the universe.

What if Aliens exist?


basically 'so what if they do because to them we are aliens visa versa ...they maynot be the hollywood style alien where they are dead set on destroying our planet

christainity would try and tighten it's grip on people when aliens did come to our shit world

If Aliens did exist they would have to be much smarter than humans.. or we would have seen them by now.. and if they were smarter than humans then they would now not to come to earth because we have wrecked it.

I hope they do, I would like to ride in one of their space crafts maybe spock will do a vulcan mind meld.

Who's to say they don't...There is much we don't quite understand.

Originally posted by T.M
If Aliens did exist they would have to be much smarter than humans.. or we would have seen them by now.. and if they were smarter than humans then they would now not to come to earth because we have wrecked it.

not really... considering with physics that we only see distant galazies in their past because light is only so fast we might not have any idea about some aliens and vice versa. there is infact a limit to what we see. and then there are possible other dimensions and different branes of existance and it just gets more and more complicated when you consider what might be true

If aliens exist (and they likely do), then those with truly open minds and hearts will rejoice in the knowledge that we are not alone (well, assuming the aliens arent like those ack-ack-ack Mars-Attacks guys). Only those with (IMO) "little Gods" at the core of their faith will be shaken and seek refuge in fortified ignorance.

Einstein, for example, found organized religion deplorable. But the more he learned about the Universe the more profound his belief in "the Old Man."

Only religionism will suffer, but then, that is the way of ossified organisms when environments change.

I don't really know if I believe in Aliens or not.

To the best of my knowledge, I've never seen one.

But I know that Space is unending, and that there's a slight to good chance that maybe we aren't the only living organisms in Space.

To have Space all to our own like that I don't think we're that special a organism to have the privilege. I mean look at or race. We hate each other and then over the dumbest things, lol. Not quite the works of a highly advanced race, which we aren't. Sorry but we don't deserve anything. And if other aliens races are having inter or extra-planetary utopic parties and have the greatest times of their advanced lives on scales unimaginable to the human brain, and we're counted out, ..Good!

if intelligent aliens exist that we can communicate with i would want to know what they think of God if anything. and what of the nature of the universe. we have based many scientific theory explorations around a way things should be and a non human perspective might be nice

Originally posted by Sir Whirlysplat
Rubbish

N=N*fp ne fl fi fc fL

Where N is the number of stars in the Milky Way galaxy; fp is the fraction with planets; ne is the number of planets per star capable of supporting life; fl is the fraction of planets where life evolves; fi is the fraction where intelligent life evolves; and fc is the fraction that communicates; and fL is the fraction of the planet's life during which the communicating civilizations live.

This serious-looking equation gave SETI an serious footing as a legitimate intellectual inquiry. The problem, of course, is that none of the terms can be known, and most cannot even be estimated. The only way to work the equation is to fill in with guesses. And guesses-just so we're clear-are merely expressions of prejudice. Nor can there be "informed guesses." If you need to state how many planets with life choose to communicate, there is simply no way to make an informed guess. It's simply prejudice.

As a result, the Drake equation can have any value from "billions and billions" to zero. An expression that can mean anything means nothing. Speaking precisely, the Drake equation is literally meaningless, and has nothing to do with science. I take the hard view that science involves the creation of testable hypotheses. The Drake equation cannot be tested and therefore SETI is not science. SETI is unquestionably a religion. Faith is defined as the firm belief in something for which there is no proof. The belief that the Koran is the word of God is a matter of faith. The belief that God created the universe in seven days is a matter of faith. The belief that there are other life forms in the universe is a matter of faith. There is not a single shred of evidence for any other life forms, and in forty years of searching, none has been discovered. There is absolutely no evidentiary reason to maintain this belief. SETI is a religion.

One way to chart the cooling of enthusiasm is to review popular works on the subject. In 1964, at the height of SETI enthusiasm, Walter Sullivan of the NY Times wrote an exciting book about life in the universe entitled WE ARE NOT ALONE. By 1995, when Paul Davis wrote a book on the same subject, he titled it ARE WE ALONE? ( Since 1981, there have in fact been four books titled ARE WE ALONE.) More recently we have seen the rise of the so-called "Rare Earth" theory which suggests that we may, in fact, be all alone. Again, there is no evidence either way.

Taken from a common sense text.

So I restate the original question.

So, if there's no proof that aliens exist yet there's also no proof of our being all alone, where does that leave someone?

Originally posted by FistOfThe North
So, if there's no proof that aliens exist yet there's also no proof of our being all alone, where does that leave someone?

well i participate in seti@home. it might be a lot easier to know that aliens exist if we find some

In addition to the Drake equation, I've also contemplated this angle:

It's been estimated that since life began on Earth, there have arisen some 50 billion different species (most of which are now gone). Out of that 50 billion, only one has rose to technological prominence.

1 in 50 billion.

If we apply that to our Galaxy (let's say some 400 billion stars, and ignoring all other Drake factors for the moment), that means (at best!, at best!!!) there are only 8 star systems with technological civilizations. This means, on average, we are about 12,000 lightyears apart.

Add other Drake factors, and the number, again, drops essentially to zero.

Unless one of the other answers to Fermi's paradox holds up, I suspect the following: pre-intelligent life is probably flourishing all through the universe, likely even within our solar system, given how incredibly tenacious life is proving itself to be here on Earth. But intelligence is perhaps a very, very, very, very rare jewel.

In either event, how this will affect the "religious," well, eye of the beholder, eye of the beholder.

Originally posted by Mindship
In addition to the Drake equation, I've also contemplated this angle:

It's been estimated that since life began on Earth, there have arisen some 50 billion different species (most of which are now gone). Out of that 50 billion, only one has rose to technological prominence.

1 in 50 billion.

If we apply that to our Galaxy (let's say some 400 billion stars, and ignoring all other Drake factors for the moment), that means (at best!, at best!!!) there are only 8 star systems with technological civilizations. This means, on average, we are about 12,000 lightyears apart.

Add other Drake factors, and the number, again, drops essentially to zero.

Unless one of the other answers to Fermi's paradox holds up, I suspect the following: pre-intelligent life is probably flourishing all through the universe, likely even within our solar system, given how incredibly tenacious life is proving itself to be here on Earth. But intelligence is perhaps a very, very, very, very rare jewel.

In either event, how this will affect the "religious," well, eye of the beholder, eye of the beholder.

1 or 10000000 we have no way of knowing how hard the conditions that cause life are till we find some more elsewhere. No equation works!

Originally posted by Sir Whirlysplat
1 or 10000000 we have no way of knowing how hard the conditions that cause life are till we find some more elsewhere. No equation works!

I think we keep missing it. We keep looking for ourselves, but life is all around us in ways we do not understand.

Years ago I used to think of the universe as a dead waist land, but now, I see it as being alive. Life is everywhere, we just have to open our minds to see it.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
I think we keep missing it. We keep looking for ourselves, but life is all around us in ways we do not understand.

Years ago I used to think of the universe as a dead waist land, but now, I see it as being alive. Life is everywhere, we just have to open our minds to see it.

Well when you see it Shaky take a polaroid for me

Originally posted by Sir Whirlysplat
Well when you see it Shaky take a polaroid for me


Yes.

For example: are crystals alive?

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Yes.

For example: are crystals alive?

No! they are arrangements of inorganic or organic atoms, as both kinds of crystals exist. However they contain no genetic material unless you are using analytical crystallography to look at nucleic acids.

Originally posted by Sir Whirlysplat
No! they are arrangements of inorganic or organic atoms, as both kinds of crystals exist. However they contain no genetic material unless you are using analytical crystallography to look at nucleic acids.

Well, you are looking at them with a narrow lens. As long as you only look for life through that small lens, you will not see most of the life that is in the universe, even intelligent life.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Well, you are looking at them with a narrow lens. As long as you only look for life through that small lens, you will not see most of the life that is in the universe, even intelligent life.

Do you talk to crystals Shaky?

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Well, you are looking at them with a narrow lens. As long as you only look for life through that small lens, you will not see most of the life that is in the universe, even intelligent life.

only that if we keep looking through this lens for another 60 billion years we might see a whole lot of life that we cant see now because light is too slow. when that happens we could probably satisfy some answers to this post

Originally posted by Sir Whirlysplat
Do you talk to crystals Shaky?

Please, what I am talking about is a topic of discussion in the scientific world. If we find life, will we know that it is life? The definition of life that we use, may not apply to a world were conditions are drastically different.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Please, what I am talking about is a topic of discussion in the scientific world. If we find life, will we know that it is life? The definition of life that we use, may not apply to a world were conditions are drastically different.

true but nothing lwads me to believe crystals are alive

Originally posted by Sir Whirlysplat
true but nothing lwads me to believe crystals are alive

I didn't say they were. I just asked, are they? Some people do believe that crystals are alive, and with good reason, crystals grow.

We know that on this planet, a crystal does not fit the blueprint of life as we know it, but on another world, would this knowledge blind us more then help?

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
I didn't say they were. I just asked, are they? Some people do believe that crystals are alive, and with good reason, crystals grow.

We know that on this planet, a crystal does not fit the blueprint of life as we know it, but on another world, would this knowledge blind us more then help?

yes the ability to absorb component parts from a super saturated solution does indicate life

Originally posted by Sir Whirlysplat
yes the ability to absorb component parts from a super saturated solution does indicate life

All I am saying, is closed minds look out into the universe and wounder why we see nothing.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
All I am saying, is closed minds look out into the universe and wounder why we see nothing.

Yes and people who don't know how crystls "grow" might have silly ideas.

Originally posted by Sir Whirlysplat
Yes and people who don't know how crystls "grow" might have silly ideas.

You agree, but then insinuate a negative directed at me. Please go back and read my post carefully and show me were I said that crystals are alive.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
You agree, but then insinuate a negative directed at me. Please go back and read my post carefully and show me were I said that crystals are alive.

No negative and nothing aimed at you - just humour, relax mate, I quite like you.

Originally posted by Sir Whirlysplat
No negative and nothing aimed at you - just humour, relax mate, I quite like you.

I thought maybe you were giving me a hard time, but I wasn't sure.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
I thought maybe you were giving me a hard time, but I wasn't sure.

nope.

This is gonna come down to how we define "life." I always liked: Life is that which deliberately makes more of itself.

This does not, however, necessarily deal with the element of "consciousness."

I do believe aliens exist. We might not be able to prove it cause they might be in a completely different dimension (or living somewhere we cant even grasp intellectually) but they do most likely exist.

Funny how people who've never seen or have any proof that aliens exist believe in aliens yet say that God doesn't.

I mean believe what you want, just be consistent with your beliefs or else you become in-credible hypocrite.

Hypocrisy makes me gag. And ignorant hypocrisy taste like bile.

Originally posted by FistOfThe North
Funny how people who've never seen or have any proof that aliens exist believe in aliens yet say that God doesn't.

I mean believe what you want, just be consistent with your beliefs or else you become in-credible hypocrite.

Hypocrisy makes me gag. And ignorant hypocrisy taste like bile.

A good point. Still, I am perfectly open to the idea non-earth life exists, and think it's quite possible they do. Yet I don't really believe in the whole "God" concept. But then, for me, it's statistically and scientifically more likely non-earth life would exist then some form of God. It's a big old universe. Our planet orbits a very common type of sun. Scientists are forever finding new planets. The conditions it seems have to be just right, but when they are life seems to hang on no matter what, as we can see in the history of earth. Of course whether there is other intelligent life out there is a whole other question. But who knows.

But anyway, as to aliens in relation to religion, well, if there is a God, and he huffed and puffed and created everything, the question is, if he only wanted humans, on earth, and he only intended for humanity to be around for a short while before he took care of them on Judgement day, why bother with the rest of the universe? What point could there have been to create a whole universe of suns and planets and places where new suns and planets can be born and where it's possible other life can exist and all that when the only thing of any consequence was apparently earth and it's little wriggly humans? I'm pretty sure it wouldn't have been to just make the sky look nice at night.

For some reason I'm reminded of that Simpsons episode where they're doing the story of Joan of Arc, and she's standing trial with God as her only witness and basically she says God told her to fight the English, while the English say God told them to fight the French, at which point God's ray of light leaves quickly. I can imagine humans and aliens have the same kind of thing happen if there was a god.

Originally posted by FistOfThe North
Funny how people who've never seen or have any proof that aliens exist believe in aliens yet say that God doesn't.
There is proof of neither.
The difference however is that the latter is impossible to prove while the former is not necessarily so.
The latter also requires belief in the supernatural/spiritual, while, no matter how exotic the idea of non-Earth life may seem, the former is not a supernatural being or phenomena.

The basis of this thread is;

"The bible should be taken at face value"

and No Priest would agree with that line...

Originally posted by Imperial_Samura
A good point. Still, I am perfectly open to the idea non-earth life exists, and think it's quite possible they do. Yet I don't really believe in the whole "God" concept. But then, for me, it's statistically and scientifically more likely non-earth life would exist then some form of God. It's a big old universe. Our planet orbits a very common type of sun. Scientists are forever finding new planets. The conditions it seems have to be just right, but when they are life seems to hang on no matter what, as we can see in the history of earth. Of course whether there is other intelligent life out there is a whole other question. But who knows.

But anyway, as to aliens in relation to religion, well, if there is a God, and he huffed and puffed and created everything, the question is, if he only wanted humans, on earth, and he only intended for humanity to be around for a short while before he took care of them on Judgement day, why bother with the rest of the universe? What point could there have been to create a whole universe of suns and planets and places where new suns and planets can be born and where it's possible other life can exist and all that when the only thing of any consequence was apparently earth and it's little wriggly humans? I'm pretty sure it wouldn't have been to just make the sky look nice at night.


As you wrote, "scientists are forever finding new planets that have conditions that seem to be just right", yet there's been no proof of life on any of these many newly discovered planets that pop up all the time, yet people still believe in aliens but not God, for which there is no more proof of either.

And I bet someone else could've easily answered all your questions in the 2nd paragraph with the common "God works in mysterious ways" refrain, buts that'd be to easy for me. What if God just made the astros merely to make the sky look nice at night. He could do what he wants, he made it. What if the stars are a message or if it was put there to give us that feeling that we are indeed apart of something grand, and I could keep going for a million years with this if I lived that long, point is, as you yourself so eloquently put it, Who Knows..Tell you the truth, I'd rather believe that there is something more profound and greater than all of us rather than believing a badly hoaxed home video of a U.F.O. with little green men inside the hull, wanting to probe us with shiny pointy instruments in order to ultimately gather our DNA samples that they can bring back home to some other farfetched galaxy not our own.

Originally posted by FistOfThe North
As you wrote, "scientists are forever finding new planets that have conditions that seem to be just right", yet there's been no proof of life on any of these many newly discovered planets that pop up all the time, yet people still believe in aliens but not God, for which there is no more proof of either.

They find these planets via light that has taken millions of years to get to us... they arn't going to see tiny people waving at us...

Concidering the fact that we evolved..(Yes I believe in evolution over us apearing after 7 days, Only craig david has the power of 7 days...) It would be very close minded to think that no where else could evolve life.. Concidering the chances I would bet somewhere else there are aliens... But then again.. There probably thinking "Why haven't they come and visited us..."

Originally posted by Hit_and_Miss
They find these planets via light that has taken millions of years to get to us... they arn't going to see tiny people waving at us...

Concidering the fact that we evolved..(Yes I believe in evolution over us apearing after 7 days, Only craig david has the power of 7 days...) It would be very close minded to think that no where else could evolve life.. Concidering the chances I would bet somewhere else there are aliens... But then again.. There probably thinking "Why haven't they come and visited us..."

Well, duh. I think you'd be a real stupid person to think you're "going to see tiny people waving at us" via tele.

What I'm saying is, or what he's saying rather, is that scientists are constantly finding planets that can support life due to it's environment. Well that's ok. If you can see evidence of potential life like air or other life sustaining elements but yet no know if life does or doesn't exist on said planet but assume it just does, cause it just might be is a pitiful wishful thought.

I heard the Earth was a lifeless rock for billions for years. That life has only been on Earth not even a billion years. That humans have been around just about a million years. Point is, just because a planet "seems" habitable, you shouldn't jump the gun and say "yippee!, aliens exist!" and look hopeless.

Well... Untill we create faster then light spaceships or they visit us, we won't know.... But assuming that should they support life.. Then there should be a good chance that life will start there over somewhere like pluto... With so many planets out there I would be quite close minded to think that we are the only planet out there with a chance of life...

Seeing as most Religionist like to just point out the micro flaws in science while bypassing the huge gaps in there bible... I'll ask some questions...
Asuming that God did creates us, just like the bible says... Why did he create all these other planets and stars???
Why did he create such a big universe???
Why did god doom us? he created the sun but decided that it should blow us up one day!