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Ok, im a 15 year old male, and being 15 means many things.

I have taken a larger insterest in news coverage and international relations and politics, because i know they will mould my future, and also Work Experience.

This is where i get to go out and do a Job for two weeks instead of school, my dad works in a Combined Crown an Civil Court, so i went there.

On my last day, as a 'reward' they let me sit in court, watch sentencing and trials.


I saw many things that angered me, i was allowed to sit in a Rape trial, and the details of that crime upset and angered me. I sat in an assault trial, and thought how petty some people were.

But then, dinner time - The Judge went for his lunch and i couldn't go for mine for another hour, so i sat an talked to the Usher. He showed me papers with all the 'Swearing Ins' and 'Oaths'

I saw the 'I swear before the almight god' one, an asked what would one say if one is an athiest. I was shown a sheet in for athiests, which is just the plain 'i swear the account i shall give shall be the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth' and you have to swear on something or other, not a god though.

i was then shown and told about many different religion's oaths.

The Chinese at one time had to break a plate infront of the jury to show they were being honest.

Then it came to Muslims, who had to have a hand on the Qu'ran (sp) while swearing in.

The book was kept in a bag, and when i pulled it out the bag i was told off, and told that if i did that in court they woul dhave to get another, i asked why and apparently it is because us Christians are unclean people, and touching the Qu'ran desecrates it.



Now if i were to refuse to touch a bible because a muslim had touched it, i would be considered Racist and they would claim im discriminating them.

Damn on way racism and damn religion.


Do you agree that they shouldnt be allowed to make such claims?

Had to vent that out, sorry.

I dont know why, but they are.

Who made christians so cocky as to judge the religious beliefs of others?

See, it works both ways.

I dont call them unclean.

Religious and Racial Tolerance Please

Saying all of one group is one thing or another is pathetic.



Originally posted by The Inkeeper
Ok, im a 15 year old male, and being 15 means many things.

I have taken a larger insterest in news coverage and international relations and politics, because i know they will mould my future, and also Work Experience.

This is where i get to go out and do a Job for two weeks instead of school, my dad works in a Combined Crown an Civil Court, so i went there.

On my last day, as a 'reward' they let me sit in court, watch sentencing and trials.


I saw many things that angered me, i was allowed to sit in a Rape trial, and the details of that crime upset and angered me. I sat in an assault trial, and thought how petty some people were.

But then, dinner time - The Judge went for his lunch and i couldn't go for mine for another hour, so i sat an talked to the Usher. He showed me papers with all the 'Swearing Ins' and 'Oaths'

I saw the 'I swear before the almight god' one, an asked what would one say if one is an athiest. I was shown a sheet in for athiests, which is just the plain 'i swear the account i shall give shall be the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth' and you have to swear on something or other, not a god though.

i was then shown and told about many different religion's oaths.

The Chinese at one time had to break a plate infront of the jury to show they were being honest.

Then it came to Muslims, who had to have a hand on the Qu'ran (sp) while swearing in.

The book was kept in a bag, and when i pulled it out the bag i was told off, and told that if i did that in court they woul dhave to get another, i asked why and apparently it is because us Christians are unclean people, and touching the Qu'ran desecrates it.



Now if i were to refuse to touch a bible because a muslim had touched it, i would be considered Racist and they would claim im discriminating them.

Damn on way racism and damn religion.


Do you agree that they shouldnt be allowed to make such claims?

Had to vent that out, sorry.

That is very arrogant of them.

Well not every muslim is like that. But if it is their believe is it so hard for you to follow its rules. If they don't want you touching the book than you don't touch it. It has nothing to do with being cocky it are just different rules than ours

Well i believe its true, its every muslim who goes into the court.

Im not just talking about fanatics and extremists.


Yeah ok, i wont touch the book but calling me and my religion unclean is wrong

this is an argument you cannot win....we live in a pc world my friend, religious or otherwise

Well then I have news for you I have a few muslim friends and they allowed me to touch their Qu'rans so they aren't all like that.

I never said all were.

Sorry then I misread it, but it seriously sounded like you were generalising

Answer to thread title: Allah


Furthermore....welll I wouldn't care

Originally posted by The Inkeeper
I never said all were.

Yes you did.


Originally posted by The Inkeeper
Well i believe its true, its every muslim who goes into the court.

Im not just talking about fanatics and extremists.

Originally posted by Bardock42
Answer to thread title: Allah


Furthermore....welll I wouldn't care

Meaning?

you would touch it anywayz, or you wouldn't care you aren't allowed to touch it?

ignore it



Originally posted by KharmaDog
Yes you did.

Why would it be flame bait?

Originally posted by KharmaDog
Who made christians so cocky as to judge the religious beliefs of others?

See, it works both ways.
Feel free to change 'Christians' to any other group of people and we'll call it even.

True

Originally posted by FeceMan
Feel free to change 'Christians' to any other group of people and we'll call it even.

Agree, I was trying to show Inn Keeper where his train of thought leads to, but your point is well taken.

Even muslims can't touch the Qu'ran unless they are in the state of purity

Here in Norway we swear on the Norwegian Laws book, no bible, no koran, no tora , no nothing else. Why? cause here we go by Norwegian law and no religious books rank above that.

muslims have too many rules for me to care... plus the way they treat women...

Originally posted by heen68
Even muslims can't touch the Qu'ran unless they are in the state of purity

It is just something determined by religious laws. I bet that most muslims who visited the court wouldn't mind. It's just that one or two have made complaints, and so the court cannot be seen to be allowing something that offends their religion. Saying every Muslim is a tad presumptous.

indeed

Very interesting story.I wonder why they think christians are unclean.I mean if they touch the bible it would be no big deal not that they would.JM

Originally posted by The Inkeeper
Ok, im a 15 year old male, and being 15 means many things.

I have taken a larger insterest in news coverage and international relations and politics, because i know they will mould my future, and also Work Experience.

This is where i get to go out and do a Job for two weeks instead of school, my dad works in a Combined Crown an Civil Court, so i went there.

On my last day, as a 'reward' they let me sit in court, watch sentencing and trials.


I saw many things that angered me, i was allowed to sit in a Rape trial, and the details of that crime upset and angered me. I sat in an assault trial, and thought how petty some people were.

But then, dinner time - The Judge went for his lunch and i couldn't go for mine for another hour, so i sat an talked to the Usher. He showed me papers with all the 'Swearing Ins' and 'Oaths'

I saw the 'I swear before the almight god' one, an asked what would one say if one is an athiest. I was shown a sheet in for athiests, which is just the plain 'i swear the account i shall give shall be the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth' and you have to swear on something or other, not a god though.

i was then shown and told about many different religion's oaths.

The Chinese at one time had to break a plate infront of the jury to show they were being honest.

Then it came to Muslims, who had to have a hand on the Qu'ran (sp) while swearing in.

The book was kept in a bag, and when i pulled it out the bag i was told off, and told that if i did that in court they woul dhave to get another, i asked why and apparently it is because us Christians are unclean people, and touching the Qu'ran desecrates it.



Now if i were to refuse to touch a bible because a muslim had touched it, i would be considered Racist and they would claim im discriminating them.

Damn on way racism and damn religion.


Do you agree that they shouldnt be allowed to make such claims?

Had to vent that out, sorry.

Saying that about Muslims is stupid, it is like saying that all Catholics believe that slavery is a good thing just because their has been a few found in this world to believe so, you are basing your whole perspective on their whole religion on a few...

A few Muslims don't represent their whole religion

Originally posted by KharmaDog
Who made christians so cocky as to judge the religious beliefs of others?

See, it works both ways.

And who made you so cocky to generalise all christians, like you do in every single thread.

See, its a 3 way thing.

lil b observation -

I find this really interesting, and rather amazing. If the thread title had ''christians'' in it, the replies in this thread would have been so much different. It would be filled with the statements such as ''its because christians think are better than everyone else'' and ''all the christians i met are such'' ''thats christianity for you'' ''they live in unreal world'' 'they are all intolerant' etc etc etc. I wonder what the replies would in this thread be if the Christians called someone else unclean?
But because the thread title has Muslims, then the generalisation factor is immidiately brought in.

Somehow few bad christians make all of christianity shit, yet when it comes to any other religion, it definitively is not so. Can you not smell the stench of your own hypocrisy?

Originally posted by lil bitchiness
And who made you so cocky to generalise all christians, like you do in every single thread.

See, its a 3 way thing.

I was making a point, hence the reference to the "it works two ways" reference. By generalizing about "all" christians I was trying to show him the folly about generalizing about "all" muslims.

And I do not make generalize about "all" christians in every single thread. In fact I would hazard to guess that christianity is not referred to in everysingle thread that I partake in.

I don't think I have ever said "every christian blah blah blah" or "all christians are....." .

i generalise about christians.....












all those bloomin christians believe that jesus is their lord!!

Originally posted by KharmaDog
I was making a point, hence the reference to the "it works two ways" reference. By generalizing about "all" christians I was trying to show him the folly about generalizing about "all" muslims.

And I do not make generalize about "all" christians in every single thread. In fact I would hazard to guess that christianity is not referred to in everysingle thread that I partake in.

I don't think I have ever said "every christian blah blah blah" or "all christians are....." .

You do not have to use such specific terminology to imply it, but you do. A lot. It was not my intentnion to single you but, because you certainly are not the only one doing it.

My closest friends and people that Im best with are Christians and none of the stereotypes ever apply. In fact, it enrages me to see that many people on this board would group these people I know in such a small minded and narrow category, it sickens me.

I for a fact know that christians are not the same, since I was raised catholic... (Im atheist though) but I only know a few muslims... and at least those few I know, were all the same (and no they are not family)

Originally posted by lil bitchiness
You do not have to use such specific terminology to imply it, but you do. A lot. It was not my intentnion to single you but, because you certainly are not the only one doing it.

My closest friends and people that Im best with are Christians and none of the stereotypes ever apply. In fact, it enrages me to see that many people on this board would group these people I know in such a small minded and narrow category, it sickens me.

It must have been your intention to single me out because you did, and that's fine I can take it. And if you notice in my threads I often use "specific terminology" to make my points. If I feel a certain way or have a certain opinion I will not imply it, I will state it.

Sometimes I will make generalizations to make a point or even a joke, however I hope that those are generally accepted in the vein that they were expressed.

My experience with Christianity is not only a result of reading newspapers and watching news. I studied different religions in University to try and understand how other people think. When I was 16 my father left his occupation and went to University to be a Presbyterian Minister. I have first hand experience of how many people in various churches (from as small as twenty to as large as over 500) behave and much of it is not flattering.

I have nothing against Christians, I have plenty against people who call themselves Christians and behave in a manner that totally contrasts the beliefs that they so vehemently defend.

guess this is whats called a generalised assumption?

Originally posted by finti
guess this is whats called a generalised assumption?

For which I had bases to assume. Read all your replies for example in religion forum. It gives me plenty of evidence and base to assume.

I am muslim and I do know about that kind of 'rule'. don't agree with it actually but I can't change the Qur'an after 1600 years!! That's the way it is written in the Qur'an and if someone doesn't want his holy book being touched people should accept this decision.

Of course there are a lots things written in the Qur'an that are old-fashioned but you can find that in the bible as well....
nowadays we cannot do the things that jesus or mohammed expected it of us 2000 years ago...it's not possible.

It makes me sad that this thread is called 'why are muslims so cocky' because it's a generalization.

In general I think that people should accept other cultures religions or races...so when someone is thinking that you're not as good as someone else you should laugh about it and ignore it. You cannot take everything literally...!

Originally posted by KharmaDog
It must have been your intention to single me out because you did, and that's fine I can take it. And if you notice in my threads I often use "specific terminology" to make my points. If I feel a certain way or have a certain opinion I will not imply it, I will state it.

Sometimes I will make generalizations to make a point or even a joke, however I hope that those are generally accepted in the vein that they were expressed.

My experience with Christianity is not only a result of reading newspapers and watching news. I studied different religions in University to try and understand how other people think. When I was 16 my father left his occupation and went to University to be a Presbyterian Minister. I have first hand experience of how many people in various churches (from as small as twenty to as large as over 500) behave and much of it is not flattering.

I have nothing against Christians, I have plenty against people who call themselves Christians and behave in a manner that totally contrasts the beliefs that they so vehemently defend.

You were the first person in this thread to have not adressed the original post with any kind of reply other than one which implys ''Christians are just as bad''


Having even a vague knowledge of something does not automatically buy you a ''discrimination free'' ticket.

just in your head
that goes for you as well

Originally posted by IceWithin
muslims have too many rules for me to care... plus the way they treat women...

yep agree that 'we' have too many rules but its up to the person to decide which rules she/he wants to accept or not.

the thing about the treatment of women is quite complicated to explain. It's written in the Qur'an that a man who beats a woman doesn't deserve to 'enter' the paradise.
Or a woman is allowed to get devorced if her husband doesn't give her the sexual pleasure she deserves (lol)

there are lots of other pro-woman rules ...don't know them all... but they have a lot of rights actually

think that the arabian society and the government are to blame for the bad conditions muslim women have to cope with. men are more dominant in that area (but doesn't mean that they're all like that)

Why doesn't muslim men in other parts of the world distance themselves clearer from this practise than they do now ?

think that it depends on the education. other reasons: tradition, no opinion.... ..... .....

Originally posted by lil bitchiness
And who made you so cocky to generalise all christians, like you do in every single thread.

See, its a 3 way thing.

And who made you so....

Nevermind.

I'm a Muslim...

Originally posted by lil bitchiness
lil b observation -

I find this really interesting, and rather amazing. If the thread title had ''christians'' in it, the replies in this thread would have been so much different. It would be filled with the statements such as ''its because christians think are better than everyone else'' and ''all the christians i met are such'' ''thats christianity for you'' ''they live in unreal world'' 'they are all intolerant' etc etc etc. I wonder what the replies would in this thread be if the Christians called someone else unclean?
But because the thread title has Muslims, then the generalisation factor is immidiately brought in.

Somehow few bad christians make all of christianity shit, yet when it comes to any other religion, it definitively is not so. Can you not smell the stench of your own hypocrisy?



Originally posted by IceWithin
but in christianity there are many different religions...
anglicans, lutherans, catholics, etc.
there are some racist christian groups but they have names... not like muslims... they're ALL muslims, thats why ppl usually talk about muslims as if they were all the same...
and personally I divide muslims in two groups, the terrorists ones and the non-terrorists

If you look at my post again, I said Catholics not Christians...

and saying that their is two types of Muslims, Terrorists and Non-Terrorists, surely that works for all religions/everyone, because you are either a terrorist or your not...

I'm so annoyed by this terrorist - non terrorist stuff.....

Originally posted by lil bitchiness
lil b observation -

I find this really interesting, and rather amazing. If the thread title had ''christians'' in it, the replies in this thread would have been so much different. It would be filled with the statements such as ''its because christians think are better than everyone else'' and ''all the christians i met are such'' ''thats christianity for you'' ''they live in unreal world'' 'they are all intolerant' etc etc etc. I wonder what the replies would in this thread be if the Christians called someone else unclean?
But because the thread title has Muslims, then the generalisation factor is immidiately brought in.

Somehow few bad christians make all of christianity shit, yet when it comes to any other religion, it definitively is not so. Can you not smell the stench of your own hypocrisy?
*Nods.*

I really don't know a lot about the Muslim faith....

Same here but I do know there are different groups within the Muslim faith

cahtolics are a branch of christiaity

it aint the chrisitans that makes chrisitianity shit

Originally posted by finti
cahtolics are a branch of christiaity

If you read all of the posts you will understand what I am on about...

I know that Catholicism in a branch of Christianity

got ya

Originally posted by lil bitchiness
You were the first person in this thread to have not adressed the original post with any kind of reply other than one which implys ''Christians are just as bad''

Yes and the first post was made by Inn Keeper who (as a christian) criticised an entire religion followed by Kid Rock's stunningly brilliant (that's sarcasm) post that agreed with him. What's your point? My post was valid in that I was making a post that tried to show Inn Keeper that fault in his logic (or my percieved fault of his logic).


Originally posted by lil bitchiness
Having even a vague knowledge of something does not automatically buy you a ''discrimination free'' ticket.

Who said that it does? It seems that you either read something that isn't there or totally misconstrue any point I try to make to continue an arguement. And how do you know whether my knowledge is vague or thorough?

read it in In-Style???

Originally posted by finti
read it in In-Style???

Damn IN-Style and their continous expose's regarding my knowledge, education and opinions. When will this insanity stop?

Originally posted by KharmaDog
Yes and the first post was made by Inn Keeper who (as a christian) criticised an entire religion followed by Kid Rock's stunningly brilliant (that's sarcasm) post that agreed with him. What's your point? My post was valid in that I was making a post that tried to show Inn Keeper that fault in his logic (or my percieved fault of his logic).

I see. To reclaim one you must shame the other.



Originally posted by KharmaDog
Who said that it does? It seems that you either read something that isn't there or totally misconstrue any point I try to make to continue an arguement. And how do you know whether my knowledge is vague or thorough?

I said ''even vague'' knowledge, for one.

Two it is you who went on to tell me how much releasrtch you've done and how much YOU know about Christians, and thus that excuses your discrimination and prejudice you so openly display.

Lil I think Kharma was only trying to make a point, atleast this time -I don't follow the religion forum-, I'm quite confident he does not believe all christians are like that.

See for yourself Fire:http://www.killermovies.com/forums/f80/t328143.html

Good Thx for pointing it out WD but I was only talking about this particular case

some christians are too sensitive, when they go out against a diffrent set of believes they can, in their own mind, rightfully do so. If someone reply with something that goes against christianity some tend to scream "bloody murder" and "why is always the christians the victim of these flamings". Maybe they should try to see their own role in this , maybe they just brought it on all by themselves

Originally posted by lil bitchiness
I see. To reclaim one you must shame the other.

Not normally, but on this board and with particular members it often seems like the only way to make your point.



Originally posted by lil bitchiness
I said ''even vague'' knowledge, for one.

Two it is you who went on to tell me how much releasrtch you've done and how much YOU know about Christians, and thus that excuses your discrimination and prejudice you so openly display.

If my opinions so offend you then you have the options of not reading them, but please don't accuse someone of being discriminatory or prejudice when you are purely basing that assessment on what little you know about that person. I have never said I am prejudice against Christians, I have said I am prejudice against those who "act" like Christians, but through their actions prove that they are not.

I would also expect a moderator of these forums not to derail a thread as doggedly as you have seemed to do here, if you have a problem with me personally, then PM me, I won't promise that I'll read it or respond, but that would be the proper forum to dispute your perceptions of me, not here.

As for the thread Wind Dancer pointed out, The title was to get attention (which it did) and the first line of the thread read:

"I think it's funny that people who call themselves Christians"

NOT CHRISTIANS, but PEOPLE WHO CALL THEMSELVES CHRISTIANS".

Once again wind dancer I would expect more out of a moderator than by simply posting something in hopes of getting a kneejerk reaction. Did you even read what I wrote there?

ok this is gonna keep getting ugly

Originally posted by KharmaDog
As for the thread Wind Dancer pointed out, The title was to get attention (which it did) and the first line of the thread read:

"I think it's funny that people who call themselves Christians"

NOT CHRISTIANS, but PEOPLE WHO CALL THEMSELVES CHRISTIANS".

Once again wind dancer I would expect more out of a moderator than by simply posting something in hopes of getting a kneejerk reaction. Did you even read what I wrote there?

Hey, nothing personal I was just providing a link. And yes you had some interesting points in that thread..that is all.

Idd I think you took that one a tad too serious KD.

I did indeed agree with the small bit I read of it.

about time

you meany

Originally posted by WindDancer
Hey, nothing personal I was just providing a link. And yes you had some interesting points in that thread..that is all.

Sorry to jump the gun on you, it just appeared as though you were trying to provide evidence to support Lil' b' s character assement of me.

Like I have said before, I say plenty of things that people may disagree with and lead them to not like me, such is life. But there is nor reason for other's to fabricate reasons for people to dislike me.

I say a lot of things people disagree with too , not might fault they aint got common sense

Originally posted by KharmaDog
Sorry to jump the gun on you, it just appeared as though you were trying to provide evidence to support Lil' b' s character assement of me.

Like I have said before, I say plenty of things that people may disagree with and lead them to not like me, such is life. But there is nor reason for other's to fabricate reasons for people to dislike me.

Man, you are going up against two of the most respected mods, I would kinda quit.... you are never going to win...

Originally posted by KharmaDog
I am not "going up against" anyone, I am defending myself and my opinions. It's also not about winning or losing.

Also, the popularity of a mod or member should have no correlation to the acceptance of their opinion or position on an issue as being more just or unjust as that od a lesser known or liked member.

Fair enough,

But as we all know the popularity of a member/mod does effect outcomes of discussions/arguments.

you side with people cause you agree with what they say, not because of their popularity. Only the spinless use that tactic.
The outcome of an argument should be affected by the arguments used, and not by the mob rules

Christians, Muslims and Jews will never get along and live in mutual respect and peace because their religions are incompatible.

Humanity will only be able to solve its problems by approaching one another as reasonable free thinking individuals. Not as a representative of one's religion.

Originally posted by finti
you side with people cause you agree with what they say, not because of their popularity. Only the spinless use that tactic.
The outcome of an argument should be affected by the arguments used, and not by the mob rules

I agree there 100% but there are always people that would just back someone because of their popularity or because of the majority go along with it

Originally posted by KharmaDog
Not normally, but on this board and with particular members it often seems like the only way to make your point.





If my opinions so offend you then you have the options of not reading them, but please don't accuse someone of being discriminatory or prejudice when you are purely basing that assessment on what little you know about that person. I have never said I am prejudice against Christians, I have said I am prejudice against those who "act" like Christians, but through their actions prove that they are not.

I would also expect a moderator of these forums not to derail a thread as doggedly as you have seemed to do here, if you have a problem with me personally, then PM me, I won't promise that I'll read it or respond, but that would be the proper forum to dispute your perceptions of me, not here.

If I had a problem with you personaly you would know about it. I have problem with your ideas. Does not agreeing with you and challanging you mean people have problems?

I read your posts in many different threads and they are all indirect attacks on Christians, or few sly comments.

Im frankly sick of that kind of discrimination, because its everywhere and people hide behind the ''its not how its meant''

I dont put words in your mouth, I simply take them in the spirit they were meant - and in the spirit your replys are meant is not all too flattering!

My best friend is a Jew. In the name, not in practice - it doesnt even matter. We sat in the resturant about to order and she ordered something that had pork in it and made a joke about how she doesnt even know how to behaive as a Jew. A person on the next table decided to join in the coversation uninvited and share his opinion on how ''Jews behaive''. Much like you, his words were not openly insulting, but were very clear and what they were supposed to be saying.
His ''extensive research'' much like yours about Christians also lead him to believe that the way Jews ''are'' was not very nice.
My closest group of friends are Christians and some are strong believers, and i simply refuse to believe that people like you would group them in a 'fundy' Bushist category based soley on the fact that they are certain religion. Christianity for them is a religion, not a political statement.

This kind of shit enrages me because people are too up their own asses to understand people for who they are, as opposed to some pre-conception they might have about that group of people. Im sick of it!

Originally posted by lil bitchiness
If I had a problem with you personaly you would know about it. I have problem with your ideas. Does not agreeing with you and challanging you mean people have problems?

No, challenging and attacking someone or their ideas based on your assumption or misguided gathering of information means you have problems. Show me clearly where I have been unjustly judgemental or discriminatory to christians (don't include jokes or witty/witless remarks for we have all made them in jest). And don't just pull one example, you have clearly seen an absolutely obvious pattern. One or two example is not enough to prove your point. I have made (up to this point ) over 1800 posts, and basing your opinion of me on 1 or 2 is not gonna cut it.

Originally posted by lil bitchiness
I read your posts in many different threads and they are all indirect attacks on Christians, or few sly comments.

Im frankly sick of that kind of discrimination, because its everywhere and people hide behind the ''its not how its meant''


Sly comments aside I generally don't make indirect attacks. If I attack it's generally out there in the open.

All my post are indirect attacks? Isn't that a wee bit of an exageration or generalization? And once again, read the entire post and see the meaning as opposed to looking for any "indirect meanings".

Originally posted by lil bitchiness
I dont put words in your mouth, I simply take them in the spirit they were meant - and in the spirit your replys are meant is not all too flattering!


Thank you for being so all powerful as to have the ability to read beyond what I post in this forum and look into my very thought process. For future reference, if you are interested in exactly what I mean, ask me and I'll tell you what I mean rather than tell me what you thought I meant.

Originally posted by lil bitchiness
His ''extensive research'' much like yours about Christians also lead him to believe that the way Jews ''are'' was not very nice.
My closest group of friends are Christians and some are strong believers, and i simply refuse to believe that people like you would group them in a 'fundy' Bushist category based soley on the fact that they are certain religion. Christianity for them is a religion, not a political statement.


Do you know of this man's "extensive research"? And how can you compare it to what you believe is my "extensive research". What's even funnier is that you then talk about your friends and personal experiences. It must be wonderful to live in a world where your opions and experiences are so much more valid than that of others.

Originally posted by lil bitchiness
This kind of shit enrages me because people are too up their own asses to understand people for who they are, as opposed to some pre-conception they might have about that group of people. Im sick of it!

Before you accuse me of being so "up my own ass" perhaps you should read the posts I've made about people who act like christians or call themselves christians but definitely do not follow the basic concepts and values of that belief and how because of this "THEY ARE NOT CHRISTIANS".

Originally posted by The Inkeeper
Ok, im a 15 year old male, and being 15 means many things.

I have taken a larger insterest in news coverage and international relations and politics, because i know they will mould my future, and also Work Experience.

This is where i get to go out and do a Job for two weeks instead of school, my dad works in a Combined Crown an Civil Court, so i went there.

On my last day, as a 'reward' they let me sit in court, watch sentencing and trials.


I saw many things that angered me, i was allowed to sit in a Rape trial, and the details of that crime upset and angered me. I sat in an assault trial, and thought how petty some people were.

But then, dinner time - The Judge went for his lunch and i couldn't go for mine for another hour, so i sat an talked to the Usher. He showed me papers with all the 'Swearing Ins' and 'Oaths'

I saw the 'I swear before the almight god' one, an asked what would one say if one is an athiest. I was shown a sheet in for athiests, which is just the plain 'i swear the account i shall give shall be the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth' and you have to swear on something or other, not a god though.

i was then shown and told about many different religion's oaths.

The Chinese at one time had to break a plate infront of the jury to show they were being honest.

Then it came to Muslims, who had to have a hand on the Qu'ran (sp) while swearing in.

The book was kept in a bag, and when i pulled it out the bag i was told off, and told that if i did that in court they woul dhave to get another, i asked why and apparently it is because us Christians are unclean people, and touching the Qu'ran desecrates it.



Now if i were to refuse to touch a bible because a muslim had touched it, i would be considered Racist and they would claim im discriminating them.

Damn on way racism and damn religion.


Do you agree that they shouldnt be allowed to make such claims?

Had to vent that out, sorry. omg really thats harsh, thats like if someone said a racist name to a white person,no one would give a damn, if it was the other way round everybody would make such a big deal out of it.
and no christians are NOT unclean people

FFS it's just their believe, ppl shouldn't make such a big deal out of it.

Originally posted by The Inkeeper
Ok, im a 15 year old male, and being 15 means many things.

I have taken a larger insterest in news coverage and international relations and politics, because i know they will mould my future, and also Work Experience.

This is where i get to go out and do a Job for two weeks instead of school, my dad works in a Combined Crown an Civil Court, so i went there.

On my last day, as a 'reward' they let me sit in court, watch sentencing and trials.


I saw many things that angered me, i was allowed to sit in a Rape trial, and the details of that crime upset and angered me. I sat in an assault trial, and thought how petty some people were.

But then, dinner time - The Judge went for his lunch and i couldn't go for mine for another hour, so i sat an talked to the Usher. He showed me papers with all the 'Swearing Ins' and 'Oaths'

I saw the 'I swear before the almight god' one, an asked what would one say if one is an athiest. I was shown a sheet in for athiests, which is just the plain 'i swear the account i shall give shall be the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth' and you have to swear on something or other, not a god though.

i was then shown and told about many different religion's oaths.

The Chinese at one time had to break a plate infront of the jury to show they were being honest.

Then it came to Muslims, who had to have a hand on the Qu'ran (sp) while swearing in.

The book was kept in a bag, and when i pulled it out the bag i was told off, and told that if i did that in court they woul dhave to get another, i asked why and apparently it is because us Christians are unclean people, and touching the Qu'ran desecrates it.



Now if i were to refuse to touch a bible because a muslim had touched it, i would be considered Racist and they would claim im discriminating them.

Damn on way racism and damn religion.


Do you agree that they shouldnt be allowed to make such claims?

Had to vent that out, sorry.

haha, that's so stupid, but you could have so much fun with it.

Like, touch the qu'ran, then when they get a new one, touch that one, and then when they get yet another new one, touch it again, make them waste a bunch of time/money because of their stupid beliefs.

Don't start touching my books

Tsk, tsk.

Damn tolerance kicking in...

yet YOU tend to understand everyone else based on assumption that you turn into facts, you even try to go beyond what some poster actually have posted.

Lets put our hands alllllll over it....If we did it enough, then maybe they'd give it up all together.

easiest would be to kick all religious books out of the courts, use the different lands law books instead............works for Norway so

Originally posted by FeceMan
Tsk, tsk.

Damn tolerance kicking in...

Sorry, but the belief that if anyone who isn't part of your religion touches your holy book it automatically needs to be destroyed is blatantly stupid and prejudice, and thus, not worth respecting.

If someone wouldn't allow me to touch the bible I would accept it!!!!!!
This rule is not racist from my point of view bec even muslims aren't allowed to touch their holy book. They have to 'clean' themselve before they touch it. It isn't anything against catholics or jews it's just about respecting a holy book.

And people should't argue about the islam and how that religion treats women etc although they don't know anything about this relegion!

please get informed before you write sth which is wrong

In my (admitedly at times not well informed) opinion, i don't see why religon should have anything to do with a court case. It doesn't matter if your christian, muslim, shiek, buddist, alienist, jedi or whatever you choose to believe in, what the hell does that matter when your answering to a court full of people who're going to judge you? Its not your god or whatnot who's going to judge you. Its the court! So why should religon come into it?

This is another case of religon interfering with stuff it shouldn't. By all means have you faith etc. But why should your faith have anything to do in a court of law where fact is dealt with?

agree with you..
think that religion and state should be separated

yes, exactly, have your beliefs by all means, but they really should be separte.

Originally posted by Jedi_KnightAlly
In my (admitedly at times not well informed) opinion, i don't see why religon should have anything to do with a court case. It doesn't matter if your christian, muslim, shiek, buddist, alienist, jedi or whatever you choose to believe in, what the hell does that matter when your answering to a court full of people who're going to judge you? Its not your god or whatnot who's going to judge you. Its the court! So why should religon come into it?

This is another case of religon interfering with stuff it shouldn't. By all means have you faith etc. But why should your faith have anything to do in a court of law where fact is dealt with?

Because, the theory goes that if you swear to your God that you will tell the truth, you are more likely to than if you were just speaking to the state.

Originally posted by lil bitchiness
This kind of shit enrages me because people are too up their own asses to understand people for who they are, as opposed to some pre-conception they might have about that group of people. Im sick of it!

Lil, I think everybody knows what KD was trying to say in the first post that you picked up on and decided to beat him over the head with. Maybe it wasn't as delicately put as it could have been, but then neither is the title or the first post in the thread.

KD wasn't being racist, he was simply pointing out that The Innkeeper doesn't have the right to call somebody cocky whilst judging them, without all the facts and as if from a position of superioty.

If you have a problem with his sly anti-Christian comments, take them up with him when he makes them, not when he is making a valid point.

Originally posted by The Inkeeper
The book was kept in a bag, and when i pulled it out the bag i was told off, and told that if i did that in court they woul dhave to get another, i asked why and apparently it is because us Christians are unclean people, and touching the Qu'ran desecrates it.



Now if i were to refuse to touch a bible because a muslim had touched it, i would be considered Racist and they would claim im discriminating them.

Damn on way racism and damn religion.


Do you agree that they shouldnt be allowed to make such claims?

Had to vent that out, sorry.

Chris, try and get all the information before posting a claim that is so potentially offensive. As many people have said, Muslims clean themselves before touching their own holy book, and it is nothing to do with the cleanliness of Christians. I quote;

Originally posted by texas-killah
It isn't anything against catholics or jews it's just about respecting a holy book.

ohh Tricster, what can I say but 10 out of 10 points for an extremly well put well formulated very thought through reply.

Originally posted by Trickster
If you have a problem with his sly anti-Christian comments

Or what "appears" to be a sly "anti-christian" comment.

Great post Trickster.

Originally posted by KharmaDog
Or what "appears" to be a sly "anti-christian" comment.

Great post Trickster.

Yeah I went back to change that, but I ran out of edit time. Anyway, like that it looks less agressive. You know what I meant.

Thanks.

Originally posted by KharmaDog
Who made christians so cocky as to judge the religious beliefs of others?

See, it works both ways. Did Christians crash planes into major govermental buildings?See.You just made you'reself look stupid.

Originally posted by El Magnifico
Did Christians crash planes into major govermental buildings?See.You just made you'reself look stupid.

Did all Muslims? No. Only a few extremists. You're judging a whole group of people based on the actions of a very small minority.

Originally posted by El Magnifico
Did Christians crash planes into major govermental buildings?See.You just made you'reself look stupid.

Was it a Muslim who ordered the invasion of Iraq?

You can't use stupid arguements like that! It's like saying
"all the British people I know eat MacDonalds. My research was done at the counter of MacDonalds."

Originally posted by El Magnifico
Did Christians crash planes into major govermental buildings?See.You just made you'reself look stupid.

Wow, what an intelligent, well thought out argument! But if you are going to go on the most extreme behaviour in the history of the followers of an organized religion, I give you pause to think about the Spanish inquisition or the crusades. Or perhaps Bush's war on Iraq that apparently God told him was just a grand peachy idea.

Before people shout "that's a stupid example of Christianity" please look at the comment that I am responding to and keep it in perspective.

As for looking stupid, your comments achieve more the appearance of ignorance, intolerance and yes, general stupidity.

I always said the Msulim religon was ****ed up, that's why you don't see them talking about Christianity's radical idealism. They have absolutely no room to talk.

However atleast thier insane fundementalism is over an onimpetent being, when it comes to onimeptance, hey, you can't afford to argue. So what they do is thier buisness.

What I'm more concerned about is those snobby pricks up in Eureope. Who ARE'NT all that religous. (Although they were when it was to thier best interest like the crusaders and the pilgrims. ****ing Eureopeons..)

Originally posted by KharmaDog
Wow, what an intelligent, well thought out argument! But if you are going to go on the most extreme behaviour in the history of the followers of an organized religion, I give you pause to think about the Spanish inquisition or the crusades. Or perhaps Bush's war on Iraq that apparently God told him was just a grand peachy idea.

Before people shout "that's a stupid example of Christianity" please look at the comment that I am responding to and keep it in perspective.

As for looking stupid, your comments achieve more the appearance of ignorance, intolerance and yes, general stupidity.

Did Bush actually say that God told him to make the war?
Not arguing, I just never heard that and I'm now curious

He said something about it being a mission of God or something like that. I can research the exact wording if you want. He also referred to the U.S. actions against "terrorsim" as a crusade further ruffling the feathers of all muslims both involved and not involved with the conflict.

you must have been dropped on your head when you were born

what do you know of the religion the MUSLIMS practise?
And if you gonna b*itch about a religion at least know the name of the religion you targeting

Bush's war on terror has nothing to do with them being Muslim but with his little fantasy world of neo-liberalism. Idiot.

He has waged a war on terrorism in Colombia, and Colombia is a major Christian country. I don;t think this has a lot to do with Bush's religion.

Islamist militants and neo-liberals are as bad as each other, however not all Muslims are militants and not all Christians are neo-liberals.

All this grouping and putting people into groups ''you are such and such'' and you are such and such is what makes people act the way they do towards each other.

And it is very off topic - the main post - its a belief, just like you cannot walk into the Buddhist temple with your shoes on, I guess you cannot touch Quran. Calling other people 'unclean' is prejudice, but im sure the minority who says that already has preconceptions of non-muslims as that.

I haven't read all the posts, but wanted to add that the highest concentration lives here not too far from me...AND they do have really good restaurants. Otherwise, they think they're babe magnets.

And they stole my tapes out of my car.

you still have tapes?????????????? how disco dance

It was awhile ago....And yes I still have some, and they took them...And disco was fun! But I had some good rock classics...

Originally posted by lil bitchiness
Bush's war on terror has nothing to do with them being Muslim but with his little fantasy world of neo-liberalism. Idiot.


1. Who are you addressing?

2. If it was me I did not say that Bush is waring in the middle East "because" they are Muslim. I said that he mentioned that it was with God's blessing (or something like that) and that he reffered to his war as a "crusade", both comments really pissed off all those in the middle east.

3. I am assuming that you are calling Bush an idiot and not any member who has posted in this thread.

When are we going to have Civil War II is what I want to know..

Blue States are going down. THE SOUTH SHALL RISE AGAIN! \m/ \m/

Crusades are bad...we should all join together and sing.serenade

Originally posted by KharmaDog
No, challenging and attacking someone or their ideas based on your assumption or misguided gathering of information means you have problems. Show me clearly where I have been unjustly judgemental or discriminatory to christians (don't include jokes or witty/witless remarks for we have all made them in jest). And don't just pull one example, you have clearly seen an absolutely obvious pattern. One or two example is not enough to prove your point. I have made (up to this point ) over 1800 posts, and basing your opinion of me on 1 or 2 is not gonna cut it.

Oh of course, how can I forget, every time there was a remark it was a ''joke''. Hide the prejudice behind a ''witty remark'' and ''joke''

Its ok, its what everyone else does. Thats why we have nasty jokes about blacks, jews, homosexuals, muslims, christians...its all in the name of ''fun''



Originally posted by KharmaDog
Sly comments aside I generally don't make indirect attacks. If I attack it's generally out there in the open.

All my post are indirect attacks? Isn't that a wee bit of an exageration or generalization? And once again, read the entire post and see the meaning as opposed to looking for any "indirect meanings"..

I don't have time or will to look through all your posts, not am I planning to do so.

This has very little to do with your particlar comment in this thread - it has a lot to do with many of your posts before this - I already said something in that thread of yours while back.



Originally posted by KharmaDog
Thank you for being so all powerful as to have the ability to read beyond what I post in this forum and look into my very thought process. For future reference, if you are interested in exactly what I mean, ask me and I'll tell you what I mean rather than tell me what you thought I meant.

I am all powerful - perhaps you should re-consider the way you come across, not the way I enterpret it.



Originally posted by KharmaDog
Do you know of this man's "extensive research"? And how can you compare it to what you believe is my "extensive research". What's even funnier is that you then talk about your friends and personal experiences. It must be wonderful to live in a world where your opions and experiences are so much more valid than that of others..
Please give me a brake!

I dont give a shit what this mans personal research was, nor I care, nor was that the point I was making!
The point I was making was that he had a cheek to even group my best fried in a category of some pre-conception he has about Jews!



Originally posted by KharmaDog
Before you accuse me of being so "up my own ass" perhaps you should read the posts I've made about people who act like christians or call themselves christians but definitely do not follow the basic concepts and values of that belief and how because of this "THEY ARE NOT CHRISTIANS".

I have never refered to you, as being up your ass, I was actually more thinking along the lines of a man who insulted my friend based on something she cannot change.

But if you have dentified with my comment, then perhaps it was meant for you.

Originally posted by KharmaDog
1. Who are you addressing?

2. If it was me I did not say that Bush is waring in the middle East "because" they are Muslim. I said that he mentioned that it was with God's blessing (or something like that) and that he reffered to his war as a "crusade", both comments really pissed off all those in the middle east.

Do you have an ego complex? I was adressing the thread and the war on terror comments as i am writing about latin america literature review as we speak.

Originally posted by KharmaDog
3. I am assuming that you are calling Bush an idiot and not any member who has posted in this thread.

Clever! Congratulations!

Originally posted by lil bitchiness
Oh of course, how can I forget, every time there was a remark it was a ''joke''. Hide the prejudice behind a ''witty remark'' and ''joke''


Looks like you're still ignoring the fact that I pointed out (among others" that my comments have been made towards people who claim to be christian as opposed to those who actually follow the doctrines of the faith. But if you feel you must keep arguing a moot point go for it. As for hiding behind jokes, you also ignore that I've stepped up t the plate and been honest whenever I've been called on something. Give this up please, you are losing the respect of some of the members here.


Originally posted by lil bitchiness
I don't have time or will to look through all your posts, not am I planning to do so.

This has very little to do with your particlar comment in this thread - it has a lot to do with many of your posts before this - I already said something in that thread of yours while back.


If you are going to try and crucify me with past posts, then at least have the decency to post them. And if this has little to do with anything that I have said in this thread, then perhaps you should not bring it up as it would be off topic.

Originally posted by lil bitchiness
I am all powerful - perhaps you should re-consider the way you come across, not the way I enterpret it.


Many members have pm'd me regarding this dispute and have congratulated me in the manner that I have conducted myself. They are members that have the respect of many others on KMC as well as mine. If they are not offended by how I present myself, then I respect their opinion.

Originally posted by lil bitchiness
I dont give a shit what this mans personal research was, nor I care, nor was that the point I was making!


My point was that you easily dismiss the opinions and knowledge of others readily.

Originally posted by lil bitchiness
I have never refered to you, as being up your ass, I was actually more thinking along the lines of a man who insulted my friend based on something she cannot change.

But if you have dentified with my comment, then perhaps it was meant for you.

Perhaps you should re-consider the way you come across, not the way I enterpret it.


Originally posted by lil bitchiness
Do you have an ego complex? I was adressing the thread and the war on terror comments as i am writing about latin america literature review as we speak.

Don't be so snappy! I was just inquiring as to if those comments were directed to me as many of your comments in this thread have been thus far.

Originally posted by lil bitchiness
Clever! Congratulations!

Your snide comments and sarcasm are appreciated.

I have been told that to argue with you is a no-win situation, not because you are correct, but because you are a mod. I will take the advice of those that I respect and no longer continue this.

What I will say is this. You began this dispute by saying that I have something against christians. Even if I did, I don't see why it should matter so much to you, but as I have pointed out before, I have most always stated that I have a problem against those that act in the name of the christian faith (or any faith for that matter) yet go directly against many if not all of their faith's teachings.

Bloody hell Lil, give it a rest already. Like I said before, if KD makes a 'snide comment' that offends you this much, take it up with him when he makes it, not in this thread.

Oh, and personally when I read it, I thought your was directed at KD.

Originally posted by lil bitchiness
Oh of course, how can I forget, every time there was a remark it was a ''joke''. Hide the prejudice behind a ''witty remark'' and ''joke''

Its ok, its what everyone else does. Thats why we have nasty jokes about blacks, jews, homosexuals, muslims, christians...its all in the name of ''fun''

From what I've seen, KD only makes comments about people when they stereotype others. In fact, the post that was the catalyst for this arguement was simply a reaction to The Innkeeper's generalisation.


You're winning no friends with this dogged pursuit of him, but it's really working in derailing the thread. Go you!

Originally posted by Big Evil
I always said the Msulim religon was ****ed up, that's why you don't see them talking about Christianity's radical idealism. They have absolutely no room to talk.

Would that perhaps be because Christianity's radical idealism is at the head of perhaps the most powerful government in the world?

I still have to see a valid arguement that Muslims are 'So Cocky'.

Originally posted by Trickster
Bloody hell Lil, give it a rest already. Like I said before, if KD makes a 'snide comment' that offends you this much, take it up with him when he makes it, not in this thread.

Oh, and personally when I read it, I thought your was directed at KD.



From what I've seen, KD only makes comments about people when they stereotype others. In fact, the post that was the catalyst for this arguement was simply a reaction to The Innkeeper's generalisation.


You're winning no friends with this dogged pursuit of him, but it's really working in derailing the thread. Go you!

...

I think the muslims are to brutal because they wear those rugs to tight on their heads. Maybe when Muhammed brought order to the muslim people he should have told about the consequences of wearing their rugs to tight.

Originally posted by ragesRemorse
I think the muslims are to brutal because they wear those rugs to tight on their heads. Maybe when Muhammed brought order to the muslim people he should have told about the consequences of wearing their rugs to tight.

OMG!!! what a stupid thing to say...!!!!

it was a joke

Yes, genius is always misunderstood.

only by themselves

How true

I'm a genius?

Originally posted by Trickster
Bloody hell Lil, give it a rest already. Like I said before, if KD makes a 'snide comment' that offends you this much, take it up with him when he makes it, not in this thread.

Oh, and personally when I read it, I thought your was directed at KD.



From what I've seen, KD only makes comments about people when they stereotype others. In fact, the post that was the catalyst for this arguement was simply a reaction to The Innkeeper's generalisation.


You're winning no friends with this dogged pursuit of him, but it's really working in derailing the thread. Go you!

OMG how did you know!! I simply must win friends on here!
I couldn't care less if you disagree with what I have to say.

I give very little shit about ''winning friends'' - I give more shit about saying what I deem to be the truth, and if you don't like it, don;'t read it. I was not talking to you to begin with - and if KharmaDog cannot speak for himself, he could have said so, i would have possibly paid some attention to what you have to say.

Run along now and if you have something to say to me, use the PM.

Originally posted by KharmaDog
Looks like you're still ignoring the fact that I pointed out (among others" that my comments have been made towards people who claim to be christian as opposed to those who actually follow the doctrines of the faith. But if you feel you must keep arguing a moot point go for it. As for hiding behind jokes, you also ignore that I've stepped up t the plate and been honest whenever I've been called on something. Give this up please, you are losing the respect of some of the members here.




If you are going to try and crucify me with past posts, then at least have the decency to post them. And if this has little to do with anything that I have said in this thread, then perhaps you should not bring it up as it would be off topic.



Many members have pm'd me regarding this dispute and have congratulated me in the manner that I have conducted myself. They are members that have the respect of many others on KMC as well as mine. If they are not offended by how I present myself, then I respect their opinion.



My point was that you easily dismiss the opinions and knowledge of others readily.



Perhaps you should re-consider the way you come across, not the way I enterpret it.




Don't be so snappy! I was just inquiring as to if those comments were directed to me as many of your comments in this thread have been thus far.



Your snide comments and sarcasm are appreciated.

I have been told that to argue with you is a no-win situation, not because you are correct, but because you are a mod. I will take the advice of those that I respect and no longer continue this.

What I will say is this. You began this dispute by saying that I have something against christians. Even if I did, I don't see why it should matter so much to you, but as I have pointed out before, I have most always stated that I have a problem against those that act in the name of the christian faith (or any faith for that matter) yet go directly against many if not all of their faith's teachings.

Awh the good old card everyone plays ''you are a mod, boo hoo, you cant say that to me, boo hoo''

Im not going to be quiet becaue im a mod, especially if i feel a prejudice discriminatory person is yet again passing sly comments.

And you don't like what I say - if there was no truth to it, you wouldnt be even sat here arguing with me writing novels of reply about the way ''I'' act, would you ?

Originally posted by lil bitchiness
And you don't like what I say - if there was no truth to it, you wouldnt be even sat here arguing with me writing novels of reply about the way ''I'' act, would you ?

Actually if there was "truth" to it I would not argue it because it would be true. Since what you say is not untrue, I debate it. And I am not writing novels, novels are much longer, you should know that by now.

And if you want to keep acting childish and continue to derail this feel free. A couple of comments to a poster in a thread is o.k, but devoting this much of a thread to a personal arguement is silly. Now members are not only pm'ing regarding your comments, but they are now posting them. Please stop this public display which is only making you look bad. If you have any comments regarding me or my views, PM me. Otherwise, talk about the subject and not me.

Originally posted by lil bitchiness
OMG how did you know!! I simply must win friends on here!
I couldn't care less if you disagree with what I have to say.

I think what he was trying to politely say is that you are making yourself look bad. I may be wrong, and he can correct me if I am, but that was my take on it.

Originally posted by lil bitchiness
I give very little shit about ''winning friends''

That is becoming increasingly apparent.

Originally posted by lil bitchiness
I give more shit about saying what I deem to be the truth

Just because you "deem" it to be the truth, that does not "make" it the truth.

Originally posted by lil bitchiness
and if you don't like it, don;'t read it. I was not talking to you to begin with

The same advice could be taken by you, and whether you were taking to him or not, by posting on a public forum anyone can answer as they wish.

Originally posted by lil bitchiness
and if KharmaDog cannot speak for himself, he could have said so, i would have possibly paid some attention to what you have to say.

That's a childish thing to say, at what point have I not been able to speak for myself? By making comments like that you show that you have made this totally personal.

Originally posted by lil bitchiness
Run along now and if you have something to say to me, use the PM.

Once again, advice that you yourself could adhere to.

Come on you guys...can't we all just get along?

This thread has been polluted enough that there is no point in trying to salvage it. Also KD you're the one taking things too personally around here. Dude, try to chill it will ya.

Things need to cool down. Therefore this thread is now closed...