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I dont understand why Vader would remain loyal to the emperor after he finds out that Padme is dead... it defeats the whole purpose of why he changed..

I dont understand this Logic:
Emperor "turn to the dark side and you will have the power to save your wife"
Anakin -"Ok cool"

Anakin becomes Darth Vader - "where padme?"
Emperor- "oh shes dead, you killed her accidentally"
Anakin -"Shit, **** me! Oh well, lets go build a death star" The end

Should Darth be pissed at the emperor becuase he got screwed in the deal...

In addition, the emperor lies to darth about the cuase of her death, saying that she died when he choked her. If thats the case, then she would have died without giving birth to the luke and leia.

So then in "Empire Strikes Back" when Darth recognizes that he has a son.. Shouldn't he be ticked off at the Emperor for lying?

It seems like the Emperor keeps screwing over Anakin/Darth and obviously lying to him, and Vador doesn't get annoyed or bothered by it until the very end of return of the Jedi... like helllooooo you're getting played!
Does this make sense to anyone?

Remaining loyal for no reason and turning for no reason are different things.

You think he's not ticked at the Emperor? Why do you think he even bothers trying to turn his son, so they can make a Sith garden and pick little black pansies?

The Emperor could quite literally kill him if he tried to overtake him in the Vader suit. At that point, no Dark-Sider had ever been redeemed, let alone a Sith Lord. Therefore, no point in trying to redeem himself, and I'm sure he was quite comfortable ruling the Galaxy...

ok then, so why does he remain loyal for no reason

Editted my post, should explain.

It is often been belived that due to his life support suit Anakin cant challenge the Emperor due to lightning.

It's true that Vader is being played and probably should be more pissed at palpy then he shows, but give him some credit. He is also playing the emperor in the OT also. There are several indications throughout that show that Vader would happily kill palps and replace him with an apprentice of his own (Luke)

Vanquish supported what I said.

He is pissed, but he's not really in a state to go "Hey you #%@@#$!$@%^&^#$#$%$#%#$! You ****ed me over! I'm screwed! I'm gonna kill you!" because now he's slow and mechanical, and the Emperor would probably not need to whip out the lightsaber in order to remove him as a threat.

Fair Points guys... but isnt it wierd because in Return of the Jedi, Vador just tosses him like a ragdoll over the ledge without a problem?

so why doesn't Vader just kill Palpy in his sleep?

ok this could go in for ages. I think the answer is quite simply. The Jedi are gone, Padme is dead..... who else does Vader have except the man who was more or less is father figure?

When Vader thinks he killed his own wife was not a lie to Anakin, the emperor and Vader both think they died. Not untill EP5 they find out about luke and leia. Remember, the Padme funeral, she still looks preganant as she lies in her coffin. It was a secret only, Obiwan, Organa, Yoda, R2, Owen and Peru knew

My opinion is that Vader was gonna kill Palpatine after he killed Obi Won but instead Vader lost and Palpatine came and saved his life so Vader decided not to kill Palpatine, since Palpatine carred about him and Padme was dead, Vader had no where else to go.

Slap Batman's theory with mine and I think we have a winner.

However, Robin, the country of Peru did not know of this secret.

Plus, the lightning DID kill Vader when he hefted Palpatine over the ledge. He knew he was done for, why not end it in the best way that would make him the good guy after all?

Originally posted by Captain REX
Slap Batman's theory with mine and I think we have a winner.

However, Robin, the country of Peru did not know of this secret.

Plus, the lightning DID kill Vader when he hefted Palpatine over the ledge. He knew he was done for, why not end it in the best way that would make him the good guy after all?

Lol, Peru = Beru

Originally posted by Captain REX
Slap Batman's theory with mine and I think we have a winner.
Plus, the lightning DID kill Vader when he hefted Palpatine over the ledge. He knew he was done for, why not end it in the best way that would make him the good guy after all?

true... thanks for clearing that up...

My theory, after the jedi temple and turning against obi-wan, he himself probably realized there was no point in turning back, that is if he still was'nt completly blinded by hatred. Noone wants to think that they're evil. Even palpatine likes to pretend like he has just cause. Vader probably shifted the responsibility from himself for the death Padme to all other remaining jedi.

Oh, but Palpatine DOES have a just cause. Who needs democracy and heroic Jedi anyway?

pademe died of a broken heart . in the movie she says that and when the robot is checking her for illness he says she's healthy she doesnt have the will to live. and anakin joined the dark side to save pademe and also cause the jedi didnt trust him anymore. and also the lies lol. i hope that helps if it doesnt im srry

I think Anakin realized that since he had nothing left, he might as well rule with his master and keep training. Maybe he believed that if one day he grew powerful enough he could leave the suit.

I think it made sense why he turned, and why he stayed. There was nothing left for him but being the Emperor's enforcer. And besides, it was a better job than a Jedi

He turned to the dark side cuz he thinks Padme betrayed him by bringign obi along

Originally posted by Stacks
I dont understand why Vader would remain loyal to the emperor after he finds out that Padme is dead... it defeats the whole purpose of why he changed..

I dont understand this Logic:
Emperor "turn to the dark side and you will have the power to save your wife"
Anakin -"Ok cool"

Anakin becomes Darth Vader - "where padme?"
Emperor- "oh shes dead, you killed her accidentally"
Anakin -"Shit, **** me! Oh well, lets go build a death star" The end

Should Darth be pissed at the emperor becuase he got screwed in the deal...

In addition, the emperor lies to darth about the cuase of her death, saying that she died when he choked her. If thats the case, then she would have died without giving birth to the luke and leia.

So then in "Empire Strikes Back" when Darth recognizes that he has a son.. Shouldn't he be ticked off at the Emperor for lying?

It seems like the Emperor keeps screwing over Anakin/Darth and obviously lying to him, and Vador doesn't get annoyed or bothered by it until the very end of return of the Jedi... like helllooooo you're getting played!
Does this make sense to anyone?

the Emperor didn't kill Padme, Ani did. Ani violated the deal. The Emperor saved Ani's life. And convinced him the Jedi were trying to take over the Republic. Thats why he turned, and he stayed because he STILL thought that view was right.

....and its not like he had anywhere else to go at that point.

first of all, padme wouldnt have died if anikan hadnt turned to the darkside becuase she died of a broken heart and didnt really like anikan anymore. i think that maybe anikan thought if he remained under control, then he'd find a way to bring her back to life. and when palpatine was about to kill luke, he had no choice but to kill palpatine.

or...

he remained under palpatine's control not of his free will anymore and something helped himt o break free.

that's the horrible dramatic irony, and its why Ani is a tragic hero, the quest to save what he loves, turns him into the very thing he hates.

But he ultimately kicks Palps butt so its all good.

okay, lets do a little math. nightmares of his mother in tourture + she dies + palpatine leans him over to the darkside + all the distrust and lies to him + the visions of padme dying + palpatine telling him he can save her by going to the darkside + thinking that even padme is against him + fighting his best friend + getting horribly wounded BY his friend + his friend abandoning him + all the jedi dying + all the remaining jedi against him + palpatine saving him + padme dying = totaly going to the darkside :/

yaaah.....i mean daymm.....ani got screwed, i'd pissed as well :P

''I dont understand why Vader would remain loyal to the emperor after he finds out that Padme is dead... it defeats the whole purpose of why he changed..''

on the empire strikes back dvd george says darth wants to over throw the emperour using luke, so he probably is pissed off with him
also darths a cripple so he cant do much about the empor

Originally posted by Stacks
I dont understand why Vader would remain loyal to the emperor after he finds out that Padme is dead... it defeats the whole purpose of why he changed..

I dont understand this Logic:
Emperor "turn to the dark side and you will have the power to save your wife"
Anakin -"Ok cool"

Anakin becomes Darth Vader - "where padme?"
Emperor- "oh shes dead, you killed her accidentally"
Anakin -"Shit, **** me! Oh well, lets go build a death star" The end

Should Darth be pissed at the emperor becuase he got screwed in the deal...

In addition, the emperor lies to darth about the cuase of her death, saying that she died when he choked her. If thats the case, then she would have died without giving birth to the luke and leia.

So then in "Empire Strikes Back" when Darth recognizes that he has a son.. Shouldn't he be ticked off at the Emperor for lying?

It seems like the Emperor keeps screwing over Anakin/Darth and obviously lying to him, and Vador doesn't get annoyed or bothered by it until the very end of return of the Jedi... like helllooooo you're getting played!
Does this make sense to anyone?

well considering he is weak and in a life support machine for the rest of his life that he just lost (killed) the love of his life and mother to his children and thinks they are dead. There is no jedi order left there is nothing. in way he is trapped in that life forever there is nothing left of him.

He has nothing left untill Luke comes along he tries to turn luke to the dark side but luke resists when he sees lukes dying this gives him something tof giht when he first became a jedi he fought to save his mum

Anakin was so far down the path of the Dark Side that there was really no turning back...

The Dark Side is very hard to overcome

if anakin would have listened to yoda at the beginning of the movie none of that would happen

Still something bothers me.
In empire stikes back, Vader asks Luke to join him and to destroy the emperor together to rule at his place. However in Return of the Jedi, when Luke strikes the Emperor, Vader blocks his strike.
It relates to what we've talked about. Surely, Vader wanted the emperor dead. Why did he block him. Even if his son didn't join him to the dark side at the end, he would still be satisfied by the death of the emperor.

he knew luke wasnt painfull enough then, thats why he realised this and thats why luke was defeated by palp it was vader that defeated him by catching him off guard.

powerful not painfull lol sorry typo.

No, because Luke could have killed his father. If Vador let Luke kill the emperor, who would protect vador from luke? lol...such a plot man...gotta love it

Watch, read and then make that statement...There is a reason for everything...

I AGREE! ANAKIN DOES TRUN TO THE DARK SIDE FOR NO REASON!
What does he think that killing everyone will somehow end the war. Makes no sense, AND ANOTHER THING: He claims that he's soooo POWERFUL And is the greatest Jedi (Or sith for that matter). Man is he lost, WOW Anakin you killed a bunch of helpless children, took out MAster Windu when he was preoccupied with Palpatine and then he slughters all the UNARMED seperatists who were caught by surprise. HE sucks! Obi wan beats the ^&^*%&%* out of him in there duel. LOL and he says he's the most powerful Jedi ever! tHINK ABOUT IT!?

technically yes obi-wan did beat anakin but it wasn't because he had better skills than him but because anakin felt that he was invincible and tried to regain the high ground when he knew it was close to impossible.

Mandos, I never understood that either. In fact I started a thread for it in The Episodes IV-VI section of this message board... if anyone truley understands this please answer it there...

Put it this way....


Your a slow machine man, you have destroyed many lives and ruined others, the galazy lives under your oppression and everyone in it hates you.

You kill your master and go to live out the rest of your days on some planet.


How good do you think your social prospects are? Not only would you be hated wherever you went, you also wouldnt blend in anywhere....you know, being a huge black metal man.

Originally posted by Mandos
Still something bothers me.
In empire stikes back, Vader asks Luke to join him and to destroy the emperor together to rule at his place. However in Return of the Jedi, when Luke strikes the Emperor, Vader blocks his strike.
It relates to what we've talked about. Surely, Vader wanted the emperor dead. Why did he block him. Even if his son didn't join him to the dark side at the end, he would still be satisfied by the death of the emperor.

I honestly think Vader did that for Luke's own good. For one, the Emperor could have stopped Luke from hitting him if he really wanted. We've seen countless times how UNdefenseless this guy is. So Vader knew Luke would be no good to him dead or injured (he's learned that for himself the hardway). So he decides to battle Luke, maybe bring out the dark side in him and kill the Emperor. All the while, making it appear to Palpatine that Vader is still loyal and acting as his protector.

I remember something when I read the 1st post : "This name significates nothing to me !" in Jedi (sorry for my english, I just remember french version...) when Luke tries to take him from the dark side...
For me, as he knows he killed Padme he disavow his ancient personnality.
Also, the fact that he says to Padme "I'll be loyal to the republic" shows that it is not only the fact that he wants to save Padme that will point him to the dark side, thats a whole story also explained in episode 1 and 2 : fear of losing, violent reactions, etc...
For me this thread cannot be detached from the whole story, thats a fact among others...

Originally posted by Deadlyshot07
My opinion is that Vader was gonna kill Palpatine after he killed Obi Won.....

Interesting theory.....

Like on the games alternate ending.

He kills OB1, Emperor is taking about he restored peace to the his galaxy, Anakin kills him and says 'Its MY gaaxy'

Palpatine was interested in Anakin from the beginning and would do whatever it took to lure him to the dark side. In the end as Vader, Anakin lost everything and had no where else to go.

As Vader says to Luke in ROTJ, "You don't know the power of the dark side. I must obey my master."

Originally posted by Stacks
I dont understand why Vader would remain loyal to the emperor after he finds out that Padme is dead... it defeats the whole purpose of why he changed..

I dont understand this Logic:
Emperor "turn to the dark side and you will have the power to save your wife"
Anakin -"Ok cool"

Anakin becomes Darth Vader - "where padme?"
Emperor- "oh shes dead, you killed her accidentally"
Anakin -"Shit, **** me! Oh well, lets go build a death star" The end

Should Darth be pissed at the emperor becuase he got screwed in the deal...

In addition, the emperor lies to darth about the cuase of her death, saying that she died when he choked her. If thats the case, then she would have died without giving birth to the luke and leia.

So then in "Empire Strikes Back" when Darth recognizes that he has a son.. Shouldn't he be ticked off at the Emperor for lying?

It seems like the Emperor keeps screwing over Anakin/Darth and obviously lying to him, and Vador doesn't get annoyed or bothered by it until the very end of return of the Jedi... like helllooooo you're getting played!
Does this make sense to anyone?

His anger is his greatest weakness but it's his greatest strength! Despite losing Padme he can wreak his revenge upon the surviving Jedi and on the Republic. The Emperor gave Anakin a new purpose. That is his reason. You need to watch the film again. Or perhaps being a philosophy student I know more about the human psyche to understand his reason.

Let me answer your questions.

Why would Vader not remain loyal to the Emperor. It wasn't the Emperor's fault Anakin killed Padme. She died as a result of Anakin's Force choke.(He did kill her!)

Why would Anakin kill Padme before he found out how to save her? It's his own damn fault she died, Not the Emperors fault. The Emperor explained that together they would find the mysteries of the Sith to help Padme, But Anakin was impatient and let his anger take over. So the only one he should be pissed at is himself, not the Emperor. Furthermore, the Emperor never dicusses what happened to the children so again, he didn't lie

Anakin's dreams of the death of his mother and his inability to save her as she died in his arms were so tragic that he fears losing Padme as in his dreams. He loves her as the Romantic hero does--desperately and completely (like the Phantom of the Opera, or Quasimodo, or Romeo). He will do anything to save her, and tells the Chancellor this as he pledges his allegiance to him, becoming his apprentice. Anakin says, "I cannot live without her."

It is ironic (and a Romantic "antithesis"--where two opposites clash together) that, in his quest to gain the power to save her, his turning to the dark side is the very thing that kills her. She can't live without him, and yet can't bear the grief of what he has become.

Mace, Yoda, and Obiwan discussed how they felt the prophecy of Anakin being the chosen one must have been misinterpreted. Yet, they are wrong! Anakin IS the chosen one, and only by descending into the dark side does he gain the power to destroy the Emperor. As the Chancellor explained to Anakin, you have to learn both sides of the force to understand and wield its full power. Only Ani as the Chosen One has the dark strength to defeat evil and the good in his heart of the Jedi.

As Anakin says to Padme on the fiery planet, when she flies out to see him and begs him to come with her, "I will become more powerful than the Emperor. You and I will rule, and I will restore peace in our Empire." Although she recoils in horror, that is exactly what Anakin does--he becomes more powerful than the Emperor, and like the true Romantic hero, it is love (of Luke and Leia) that guides him as he defeats the Emperor and restores peace. He fulfills his destiny as the Chosen One, defeats evil, and Returns to the Jedi. I feel he is reunited with Padme in the "force" that Yoda refers to when talking to Anakin about death being the natural end of life and the re-entering of the force.

I absolutely LOVED the movie, and feel that the whole series is the life of Anakin Skywalker--his tragic childhood, his passionate and desperate love for Padme, and ultimate redemption as the Chosen One!

the writing in episode III made it appear as though anakin joined the darkside with little to no persuasion. However,i understand that Palpitine had been corrupting anakin for years, thank god i went to school.

Well...why would anakin not remain loyal to palpatine?
The guy saved his life!!!
He probably thought that since padme was dead he had no reason to be good any more... he didn't even know that luke or leia were alive.
That was why he had the emotional outburst when he found out she died... that was his last show of humanity before he fully became darth vader...

And some people may think that it was unrealistic him saying "What have I done?" after assisting with knocking mace out the window (Did he really die?) and then going and doing everything palpatine asks...
It's not unreallistic... Anakin decided that he could not go back to the jedi and could only think about saving padme

Originally posted by yseultlablonde
Anakin's dreams of the death of his mother and his inability to save her as she died in his arms were so tragic that he fears losing Padme as in his dreams. He loves her as the Romantic hero does--desperately and completely (like the Phantom of the Opera, or Quasimodo, or Romeo). He will do anything to save her, and tells the Chancellor this as he pledges his allegiance to him, becoming his apprentice. Anakin says, "I cannot live without her."



bad acting and editing can make a good story seem crappy

Originally posted by Stacks
Fair Points guys... but isnt it wierd because in Return of the Jedi, Vador just tosses him like a ragdoll over the ledge without a problem?

Not so weird, as you recall, when darth absorbed all that lightening in the process of chucking the ol fart bag over the rail, he pretty much fried himself and died to save his son and redeem himself. The emperor told luke: "join us or die", luke didn't join so the emperor tried to make him Krispy Fried Critters. It's at this point when darth realizes, 'ok, enough's enough, luke won't help me defeat you, but still, i'm sure as hell not going to let you kill him, especially after you played me you. After he realizes luke won't join with him, he really has nothing left to live for and goes kamikaze on wrinkles.

Originally posted by Reborn Again
His anger is his greatest weakness but it's his greatest strength! Despite losing Padme he can wreak his revenge upon the surviving Jedi and on the Republic. The Emperor gave Anakin a new purpose. That is his reason. You need to watch the film again. Or perhaps being a philosophy student I know more about the human psyche to understand his reason.

First of all, let me just add, that's one of the most arrogant things I've heard in some time. Perhaps being a philosophy student has made you look even dumber by missing his point completly. What he's saying is that he doesn't know why the Emperor told Vader that VADER was the one to kill Padme when he could've told him that it was Obi-wan that killed her. All that the Emperor did was make vader pissed off at himself and the entire darkside, a resentment which he harbors until ROTJ. The Emperor did not give Anakin a new purpose; at that point Vader realized he's screwed: he can't kill the emperor, he sacrificed everything to save a wife that he lost anyway. Hence, at he end of ROTS he just stands next to the Emperor like a beaten dog and thinks to himself 'someday, somehow, i'm gonna kick your wrinkly ass'. And I don't recommend that anyone watch this tripe a first time, let alone a second...but hey, what do I know, it's not like I'm a philosophy student.