Elders of the universe vs. JLA

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the Darkone
Elders of the Universe:
Champion of the Universe w/ powered gem
The runner


vs.


JLA:
superman
aquaman
wonderwoman
martian hunter
captain marvel (shazam)
power girl
orion
big barda
the flash
steel
captain atom
supergirl
warrior (guy gardner)

long pig
A well written Champ w/gem should be able to take most of these by himself.


But knowing marvel, Steel would K.O him with one punch.

kgkg
Originally posted by the Darkone
Elders of the Universe:
Champion of the Universe w/ powered gem
The runner


vs.


JLA:
superman
aquaman
wonderwoman
martian hunter
captain marvel (shazam)
power girl
orion
big barda
the flash
steel
captain atom
supergirl
warrior (guy gardner)
Champion of the Universe w/ powered gem is stronger than all of them.
The runner - Will beat most of them including flash.

I go with elder of the Universe.

No one can keep up with the runner, and no one can match Champion's durability and strength.

No superman doesn't even come close to champ of the U.




big grin

whirlysplat
Remind me did Thanos beat the Champ hand to hand?
Does runner actually move at superspeed or warp space?

mmmmmmmmm.

interesting, has Supes ever wrestledthe likes of Asmodel to a standstill?

mmmmmmmmm.

mmmmmmmmmarvel fans, tut, tut roll eyes (sarcastic)

Keep the faith beer

8bitChris
The Elder Runner took out the Silver Surfer "easily". And i'm sure the Surfer would be more than a handful if even possible for Supes to beat.

He's been running since the Universe was born and was the fastest being in the Universe until he lost to Makkari the Eternal (who couldn't slow down his perceptions after the race and got stuck in perpetual speed.) in his Grand something or other race.

However, if the could get the Runner to stop moving for a little while he'd die.
Barry Allen/ "Buried Alien" even competed in the race lol.

Wynndar
Thanos beat the Champion using strategy not strength...what the hell does that have to do with Superman? Thanos would beat Superman and the JLA by himself anyway.

whirlysplat
How fast does he "run" big grin Is it faster than light? big grin





Originally posted by 8bitChris
The Elder Runner took out the Silver Surfer "easily". And i'm sure the Surfer would be more than a handful if even possible for Supes to beat.

He's been running since the Universe was born and was the fastest being in the Universe until he lost to Makkari the Eternal (who couldn't slow down his perceptions after the race and got stuck in perpetual speed.) in his Grand something or other race.

However, if the could get the Runner to stop moving for a little while he'd die.
Barry Allen/ "Buried Alien" even competed in the race lol.

whirlysplat
I have a problem though with all Superman threads Kal el is both Superman and Superman Prime. Superman is Superman prime. We are always supposed to take a character at there top level. Superman is Kal el, Superman Prime is the most powerful we have seen Kal el. Superman and Superman prime are the same character, Superman.

So Superman should almost always win

Sentry
Their are a few more Elders. Obliterator, Grandmaster, In-Betweener, etc... You forgot to add. Doesn't matter those two could take that JLA bunch.

8bitChris
http://www.marvunapp.com/Appendix/runnerelder.htm
(The Site to go get all info on obscure Marvel events and characters!)

"Base of Operations: Mobile throughout the Universe

First Appearance: The New Defenders I #143 (May, 1985)

Powers/Abilities: The Runner is one of the Elders of the Universe. He has devoted his 5 billion years of life to exploring the cosmos, staging tests of speed with the fastest beings on whatever planets he chooses to visit, and generally just having fun. Runner is capable of firing intense energy blasts at his opponents, and is a skilled hand-to-hand combatant. Runner has a very unusual ability: anyone in his vicinity can't help but like him (even if he's trying to kill them!) He may not be able to control his empathic projection of joy and love, and it's doubtful he would even try. His speed can take almost any enemy by surprise, and his power to radiate joy often overwhelms his intended victims, making them unwilling to fight him, even in self-defense. The Runner is usually a peaceful individual, with a childish, irresponsible demeanor and a friendly, joyful personality. As an Elder of the Universe, Runner was immortal as long as he was occupied by his obsession, however, due to the Grandmaster tricking Death into barring all Elder's from her realm, he now cannot die by any means. Despite his great age, Runner appears to be very young, physically at the prime of his life.

Speed: Warp Speed, transcending light speed
Strength: Incalculable
Agility: Meta-Human
Durability: Physically indestructible
Intelligence: Gifted

Eyes: Gold Hair: Gold Height: 6'2'' Weight: 220 lbs Other Distinguishing Features: Golden Skin"

8bitChris
So essentially, while the Runner is handing the JLA their ass, they'd still love him.

the Darkone
I didn't want to over do it. their are some dc fanboys that would cry bloody murder.

whirlysplat
Do you know the difference between running and warping space? big grin



Originally posted by 8bitChris
http://www.marvunapp.com/Appendix/runnerelder.htm
(The Site to go get all info on obscure Marvel events and characters!)

"Base of Operations: Mobile throughout the Universe

First Appearance: The New Defenders I #143 (May, 1985)

Powers/Abilities: The Runner is one of the Elders of the Universe. He has devoted his 5 billion years of life to exploring the cosmos, staging tests of speed with the fastest beings on whatever planets he chooses to visit, and generally just having fun. Runner is capable of firing intense energy blasts at his opponents, and is a skilled hand-to-hand combatant. Runner has a very unusual ability: anyone in his vicinity can't help but like him (even if he's trying to kill them!) He may not be able to control his empathic projection of joy and love, and it's doubtful he would even try. His speed can take almost any enemy by surprise, and his power to radiate joy often overwhelms his intended victims, making them unwilling to fight him, even in self-defense. The Runner is usually a peaceful individual, with a childish, irresponsible demeanor and a friendly, joyful personality. As an Elder of the Universe, Runner was immortal as long as he was occupied by his obsession, however, due to the Grandmaster tricking Death into barring all Elder's from her realm, he now cannot die by any means. Despite his great age, Runner appears to be very young, physically at the prime of his life.

Speed: Warp Speed, transcending light speed
Strength: Incalculable
Agility: Meta-Human
Durability: Physically indestructible
Intelligence: Gifted

Eyes: Gold Hair: Gold Height: 6'2'' Weight: 220 lbs Other Distinguishing Features: Golden Skin"

Wynndar
Originally posted by whirlysplat
I have a problem though with all Superman threads Kal el is both Superman and Superman Prime. Superman is Superman prime. We are always supposed to take a character at there top level. Superman is Kal el, Superman Prime is the most powerful we have seen Kal el. Superman and Superman prime are the same character, Superman.

So Superman should almost always win

Superman prime is not an inevitable certainty. I thought he was just a possibility in a different future. Regardless, Superman is Superman...i think everyone can manage to mentally separate the two.

8bitChris
"Do you know the difference between running and warping space?"

Not really, no. Unless warp = folding space. But like I said, I really don't know.

whirlysplat
Go here

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=338577&perpage=20&highlight=fastest&pagenumber=2

8bitChris
We are always supposed to take a character at there top level."


Is that one of the rules of the forum?

whirlysplat
Actually no he is from the same timeline, "The Kingdom" timeline Superman is from a different one. Read the forum rules in relation to characters big grinOriginally posted by Wynndar
Superman prime is not an inevitable certainty. I thought he was just a possibility in a different future. Regardless, Superman is Superman...i think everyone can manage to mentally separate the two.

whirlysplat
Originally posted by whirlysplat
Go here

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=338577&perpage=20&highlight=fastest&pagenumber=2

Keep the faith beer rock

Wynndar
yes but they r two different characters. Do u really want to get into this argument when we talk about MArvel characters? all the different dimensions and contengencies? I dont talk about the FF in 15,000 years when they r all omnipotent cosmic beings...I dont even talk about the Thing when he was mutated again. Whenever I bring up Thing beating Hulk people say: "it doesnt count because he's all spikey".

8bitChris
Ok, I know a "little" more about warping space now.

Are we applying all these physics to that Marvel/DCUs now?

Because, i'm pretty sure when they created the Elder it was just with the idea of an ancient being who was faster than everything else.

Even so, the Elders are still more than a match for that JLA lineup.

whirlysplat
They are at the moment the same universe and timeline. Not alternate like Guardians of the Galaxy is in Marvel. Superman prime is the most powerful version of Kal we have seen. Its not an argument, your wrong about the time line read JLA 1 to the 6. big grin


Originally posted by Wynndar
yes but they r two different characters. Do u really want to get into this argument when we talk about MArvel characters? all the different dimensions and contengencies? I dont talk about the FF in 15,000 years when they r all omnipotent cosmic beings...I dont even talk about the Thing when he was mutated again. Whenever I bring up Thing beating Hulk people say: "it doesnt count because he's all spikey".

roll eyes (sarcastic)

Keep the Faith laughing

whirlysplat
Originally posted by 8bitChris
Ok, I know a "little" more about warping space now.

Are we applying all these physics to that Marvel/DCUs now?

Because, i'm pretty sure when they created the Elder it was just with the idea of an ancient being who was faster than everything else.

Even so, the Elders are still more than a match for that JLA lineup.

roll eyes (sarcastic)

Keep the faith laughing

8bitChris
SO Whirly? Who can beat the Flash then?

8bitChris
and to make it interesting, What exactly are Superman Prime's power levels?

Are we just supposed to say he's God and everytime Superman is in a thread the thread is over because there is no force in existence that could even dream of touching Superman Prime in any comic Universe?

whirlysplat
The premise of the Watchers andthe original "what if" from the seventies is that every action creates a variant universe, so marvel outcomes are not definite. Hypertime works on the idea lots of preexisting paralell universes run concurrently. The DCU is one main continuity, and superman preime is the furthest we have seen into Supes future in it. Bringing up alternative timelines with the Marvel characters is different to using the most powerful version of a standard one universe character. big grin I actually think against present day supes and co the elders would win but. That is not what the forum rules ask for big grin


Originally posted by Wynndar
yes but they r two different characters. Do u really want to get into this argument when we talk about MArvel characters? all the different dimensions and contengencies? I dont talk about the FF in 15,000 years when they r all omnipotent cosmic beings...I dont even talk about the Thing when he was mutated again. Whenever I bring up Thing beating Hulk people say: "it doesnt count because he's all spikey".


big grin


Keep the faith smile

FieryBalrog
Its not like Superman Prime makes any difference. So really, it doesnt matter. Elders take it with ease.

whirlysplat
But they must be cool


The point I am making is this elders thread is a pointless mismatch in favour of marvel cosmics, what is the point to it? Its saying Marvel must stomp the JLA. Truth is both companies have made some damn fine characters and stories. As have many independants.




Originally posted by 8bitChris
and to make it interesting, What exactly are Superman Prime's power levels?

Are we just supposed to say he's God and everytime Superman is in a thread the thread is over because there is no force in existence that could even dream of touching Superman Prime in any comic Universe?


Keep the faith smile

8bitChris
It is a mismatch.

The Elders got that whole "banned from Death" thing comics always use when they want to make someone Immortal.

whirlysplat
Originally posted by 8bitChris
It is a mismatch.


big grin

Wynndar
Originally posted by whirlysplat
The premise of the Watchers andthe original "what if" from the seventies is that every action creates a variant universe, so marvel outcomes are not definite. Hypertime works on the idea lots of preexisting paralell universes run concurrently. The DCU is one main continuity, and superman preime is the furthest we have seen into Supes future in it. Bringing up alternative timelines with the Marvel characters is different to using the most powerful version of a standard one universe character. big grin I actually think against present day supes and co the elders would win but. That is not what the forum rules ask for big grin





big grin


Keep the faith smile

Im not refering to what if comics at all...there r charcters in marvel from different dimensions and timestreams...Marvel is not a universe like DC is a single universe. It is a multiverse, containing more characters and structured cosmic hierachy. A piece of the Thing evolved into an omnipotent cosmic being after a few thousand years in a time bubble...that doesnt mean that when i talk about the Thing, im refering to that being. I dont even refer to spikey Thing..who was the real Thing and was his dominant form from 1986-1992. Superman Prime is a possibile outcome for Superman, not definite. If it were then Superman would be immortal because is definitely alive in the future. The future is always only a possibility, not a certainty...lets not get philosophical. Superman is Superman, not Prime...U chastize marvel fans but ur acting like DC fanatic urself

whirlysplat
It was something made clear in a lot of seventies marvel, the idea that decisions created new universes.

hope that helps

big grin



Originally posted by Wynndar
Im not refering to what if comics at all...there r charcters in marvel from different dimensions and timestreams...Marvel is not a universe like DC is a single universe. It is a multiverse, containing more characters and structured cosmic hierachy. A piece of the Thing evolved into an omnipotent cosmic being after a few thousand years in a time bubble...that doesnt mean that when i talk about the Thing, im refering to that being. I dont even refer to spikey Thing..who was the real Thing and was his dominant form from 1986-1992. Superman Prime is a possibile outcome for Superman, not definite. If it were then Superman would be immortal because is definitely alive in the future. The future is always only a possibility, not a certainty...lets not get philosophical. Superman is Superman, not Prime...U chastize marvel fans but ur acting like DC fanatic urself

No at the moment he is a def outcome in the present DCU. He obviously is not in reality if thats ur argument. But this is not reality and we use comic continuity. No I have as many if not more Marvel in my collection. Which dates back to the first Comic I bought a Marvel issue of Iron man with Jack of Hearts and Iron man on the moon in about 1974-5.

Keep the faith

big grin

kgkg
Originally posted by whirlysplat
Remind me did Thanos beat the Champ hand to hand?
Does runner actually move at superspeed or warp space?

mmmmmmmmm.

interesting, has Supes ever wrestledthe likes of Asmodel to a standstill?

mmmmmmmmm.

mmmmmmmmmarvel fans, tut, tut roll eyes (sarcastic)

Keep the faith beer

Why bring up Thanos?

Thanos also defeated all the elders.

Champ with power gem will easily shit on most of them.

Superman Prime?? roll eyes (sarcastic)

Cosmic Cube
Originally posted by kgkg
Why bring up Thanos?

Thanos also defeated all the elders.

Champ with power gem will easily shit on most of them.

Superman Prime?? roll eyes (sarcastic)

Thanos would crush the 853rd century JLA, including Superman Prime. (Infinity Reality Gem, anyone?) Superman Prime is just Superman with maxed out kryptonian abilities and a GL ring. He doesn't have a sword.

Runner controls the fabric of space. Champ with the gem posesses infinite power. Not hard to find out who wins.

kgkg
Originally posted by Sentry
Their are a few more Elders. Obliterator, Grandmaster, In-Betweener, etc... You forgot to add. Doesn't matter those two could take that JLA bunch.
In-Betweener? you mean Ego

Laminator_X
The Runner's Speed is not just space-folding, if it were, he wouldn't have humbled the Surfer the way he did. He warps space just to give his feet something to push off of that won't get torn apart by the stress, or in empty void.

long pig
The Runner was supposed to be the fastest, ever.
That's what he was made for.
Champ was supposed to be the best fighter, ever.
That's what he was made for.

If Marvel sticks to these points, then yes it's a mismatch, but marvel doesn't, therefore it's not a mismatch.

JLA has a chance, but they shouldn't.

Thanos should NOT have been able to beat Champ. The End.

seaapple
I thought that the Elders would win, then I saw that the JLA includes Aquaman.

If it is old-school Aquaman with the orange shirt and hunter green pants then JLA takes it. If not, the Elders have it.

(p.s. Unless the JLA gets:
http://www.teevee.org/archive/1996/11/12/gleek.jpg
)

the Darkone
Originally posted by seaapple
I thought that the Elders would win, then I saw that the JLA includes Aquaman.

If it is old-school Aquaman with the orange shirt and hunter green pants then JLA takes it. If not, the Elders have it.

(p.s. Unless the JLA gets:
http://www.teevee.org/archive/1996/11/12/gleek.jpg
)


What the f**k? elders win period. Aquaman wouldn't last the long they will fry his ass like catfish with tater sauces. The runner runs at warp speed for god sakes ans is second to the champion in fighting and has a high energy projection. Aquaman what a joke. laughing

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