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"Only Sith deal in absolutes." I don't like this at all. This should have been cut from the movie.


1. Sidious said evil or whatever is a point of view, kind of like, their really isn't such a thing as good and bad, just point of views, correct me if I'm wrong but isn't that the opposite of absolute?

2. If Jedi doesn't deal with absolutes then why are they saying the Sith is evil, and they seem to think their is right and wrong, the Jedi is basically based on absolutes.

3. This pretty much slams Christians, considering Christians deal in absolutes.

oh, i never thought of that, but good point made, but it dosent slam christians, i mean no one should be offended by that, but i never thought about it

the only christians that get offended by something like this are uptight about everything and see an attack in their religion in every movie, every ad, every whatever

it's NOT an attack on any religion, it's just a movie

Oh please not this! Is a movie...is entertainment...thats all. Please don't do this to Star Wars.

Ok then forget the Christan thing, I wasn't offended by it really, I just didn't like that line because it didn't make much sense from what they had said earlier in the movie.

Originally posted by yerssot
the only christians that get offended by something like this are uptight about everything and see an attack in their religion in every movie, every ad, every whatever

it's NOT an attack on any religion, it's just a movie

agreed. just enjoy the movie. it's not likely that lucas wrote that line and said, "tht'll show them christians!" it's a movie called star wars. not religion wars. and i especially don't think gl would relate christians to the sith.

but those Tuskan Raiders are clearly muslim

(for those that don't know, it's what someone said in another thread)

I thought it was a great line and may go down as one of the most memorable from the whole saga.

I thought it was a great line, perfectly executed. Basically confirming that Obi-Wan has no choice but to fight, that his friend is truly gone. Identifying him as a Sith would make the fight easier, and more justified and necessary in his mind, I would think.

How is it a great line if Obi Wan and all the other Jedi deal in absolutes?

sith are evil...they kill innocent and thrive for power their selfish.... sith probably do think in absolutes...they never say it but they act it....he was saying that just to get anakin even closer to the dark side (even though it is really point of views, but the dark sides is evil like i said before they arnt doing good and thats obvious)

What Lucus is saying is George Bush is a Sith.
I think if we all search our feelings, we know it to be true.

Originally posted by yerssot
but those Tuskan Raiders are clearly muslim

(for those that don't know, it's what someone said in another thread)
good lord. everyones going insane, aren't they?

Originally posted by JKozzy
I thought it was a great line, perfectly executed. Basically confirming that Obi-Wan has no choice but to fight, that his friend is truly gone. Identifying him as a Sith would make the fight easier, and more justified and necessary in his mind, I would think.


exactly, this line is one of the best in the movie. it doesn't mean that the jedi can't have opinions about the sith being evil

Originally posted by neo313
exactly, this line is one of the best in the movie. it doesn't mean that the jedi can't have opinions about the sith being evil If they don't deal in absolutes then they can't believe in such a thing as evil or they would be dealing in absolutes.

falalalala

I think the line is fine...

though I do see your point...

isn't the line "Only a sith deals in absolutes" an absolute?

Originally posted by DeVi| D0do
I think the line is fine...

though I do see your point...

isn't the line "Only a sith deals in absolutes" an absolute?

well, since you said that, I guess we can close this thread before we all get confused. Face it, not dealing in absolutes is imposable.

The absolute of absolute deals no with the absolute<s absolute byt with the pure absolute.
elementary.

I thought it was a great line.

Points of View....


SITH - Do whatever it takes to win, Lie, Cheat, Steal and spread Corruption To keep power, kill younglings, destroying innocents that have done nothing wrong, control of the galaxy, limit to freedom all to give power souly to the Emperor/ Sith Master...


Jedi - Keepers of the Peace, Do what is right, Help when you can, Be honest and trustworthy, Justice....


Whatever, I don't care...

Why do you even have to ask why Palpatine said that to Anakin? He was still in the process of turning him, he couldn't just outright say the Jedi are crap.

It is a *very* stupid line because it contradicts itself. The line itself is an absolute statement: only a Sith deals in absolutes. Well, Obi-wan, then you must be a Sith because you just made an absolute statement and you say only Siths do that. It's just dumb--like saying "never say never."

Originally posted by padmeamidala
It is a *very* stupid line because it contradicts itself. The line itself is an absolute statement: only a Sith deals in absolutes. Well, Obi-wan, then you must be a Sith because you just made an absolute statement and you say only Siths do that. It's just dumb--like saying "never say never." Finally someone agrees with me.

Ridiculous line; I love Obi-Wan and it makes me sick that it had to be him saying that.

Ugh..he said it because now he knew Anakin could not be turned back to what he was.

You guys are acting just like those idiots who take lines like "Dude I laughed my ass off" literally.

Originally posted by Delta 62
Ugh..he said it because now he knew Anakin could not be turned back to what he was.

You guys are acting just like those idiots who take lines like "Dude I laughed my ass off" literally. "Only Sith deal with absolutes" and "I laughed my @$$ off" are completely different. I'm pretty sure Obi Wan meant what he said.

LandoSpeeder2, I completely see what you're saying. I enjoyed the line, but you right that there are some continuity errors with it.

Sarah

Oh god no, the movie wasnt perfect! SOMEBODY SHOOT ME!

The more I think about it, the more I like the quote, contradiction and all.
Yes, the statement is an absolute as well. The fact that Obi-Wan doesn't see it makes the point about the Jedi having become complacent and arrogant all the stronger. They see the faults in others, but not in themselves.

At least, that's how I like to look at that quote, even though something tells me I'm giving it a lot more thought than Lucas did when he wrote it...

This is just another of the MANY contradictions the Jedi have (more specifically Obi-Wan). Obi-Wan lied a lot to Luke in the OT. The Jedi are indeed corrupt-- though they may think they mean well.

The Sith on the other hand do whatever they want.... because of this attitude, they can hardly be hypocritical or flawed.

Yoda realized what the Jedi had become in the duel with Sidious. He realized the Sith had evolved..continuously changed..while HE had not allowed the Jedi to change. I hadn't thought of the statement in the way SixofTwelve and Palpy said, but I do agree with that.

i think people should stop basing things off of what Palpatine says. most of what he says is simply said to lure anakin to the dark side. he says that he will help anakin save padme but he never really intended to. he says the jedi were trying to control the republic but they werent. palpatine lies. get used to it.

i also disagree about it showing the flaws of the jedi. i think obi-wan is just trying to get anakin back to the light side. throughout their fight everything he says is directed toward anakin in a caring way.he is simply trying to get ankin back. he doesnt see anakin as lost until they are nearly finished with their duel. only then does he look at anakins fall as absolute.

The Jedi were stupid... like Delta 62 said, they didn't change with the times as the Sith did. Yoda was stuck in his old ways and pulled the rest of the Jedi order down with him. "Failed, I have" - damn right you did.

I believe that what Obi Wan says here is not a contridition at all. The statement he makes is indeed an absolute statement. But the fact that there are absolutes, and dealing in those absolutes are entirely different. A Jedi understands that absolutes exist. Light side Good, Dark side Evil is an Absolute. However the Jedi do not run their order by dealing with the absolutes, the Sith do.

ANAKIN: If you're not with me, you're my enemy.

OBI-WAN: Only a Sith Lord deals in absolutes. I will do what I must.

Notice Obi-Wan says he will do what he must. But yet he refuses to Deal even in that Absolute in the end. He could have ended Vader's life absolutely but chooses to not.

Just because you know that absolutes exist, does not mean you run your life by them. Anakin's main problem with the Jedi Order seems to be that they are starting to deal in the absolutes they believe in. He says this often, most notably to Palpatine when trying to decide if he should off Dooku's head. The Jedi would allow Dooku to live and stand trial, even while knowing absolutely that Dooku is Evil. The Sith kills Dooku because that is absolution.

Take the Mace vs Sidious scene. Anakin councils Mace in that he can not kill Sidious, it is against what the Jedi believe in. Mace then chooses to destroy the Evil. This is Dealing in an absolute and causes Mace's demise. Had he followed the teachings of his Order, Mace would have lived(for a while i'm sure anyway, regardless by dealing in the absolute he chose his own death, otherwise he would have died fighting in defense of his Order).

the understanding of absolutes, and making statements of these absolutes, is different then dealing in them, or making your choices based on them.

Vader would have killed Obi-Wan because as a Sith he is now bound by Absolutes. Obi-Wan as a Jedi does not kill Vader because he does not deal in absolutes.

Originally posted by yerssot
but those Tuskan Raiders are clearly muslim

(for those that don't know, it's what someone said in another thread)

Im a muslim, how dare u said that??

If you actually read his post he was quoting someone else

Originally posted by sasa
Im a muslim, how dare u said that??

ahahahah You can tell they are because of the way they walk and make those Hooting noice

Originally posted by LandoSpeeder2
"Only Sith deal in absolutes." I don't like this at all. This should have been cut from the movie.


1. Sidious said evil or whatever is a point of view, kind of like, their really isn't such a thing as good and bad, just point of views, correct me if I'm wrong but isn't that the opposite of absolute?

2. If Jedi doesn't deal with absolutes then why are they saying the Sith is evil, and they seem to think their is right and wrong, the Jedi is basically based on absolutes.

3. This pretty much slams Christians, considering Christians deal in absolutes.

I'm Christian and I thought it was one of the best lines in the movie because of its pathos in that context

darth cretin,
You make a good point about it being different to deal in absolutes vs. there being absolutes that exist.

However, regarding Mace's duel with Sid, I see it the other way around. To say that *every* unarmed man should *always* stand trial is the absolute. If he had tried to arrest Sid at that point, Sid would have killed him. He was right, Sid *was* too dangerous to be left alive. That absolute that says to always not kill an unarmed was an absolute Mace was willing to go against, because he knew he had to. It wasn't Mace that caused Mace's demise; it was Anakin. JMO

You are IMO taking that quote of context..

"If you're not with me, you're my enemy."

Thats the absolute, black and white. Right and wrong nothing more.

Jedi tend to realise that there are grays out there, they don't kill everybody that doesn't agree with them. They don't rage wars to spread their idea's across the galaxy just to defend their goals. Thats the absolute here.. With me or against me, just black and white no grey.

Obi was right when he said that, because Jedi don't think like that. Of course they are against their enemy they are the enemy, but unlike the Sith they are not against the guy on the street that doesn't take sides. They would never kill them, Sith would.

Hmm i see what you are saying Padme, but think the person above this post put much simpler terms my argument.. understanding the grey areas, and no offing joe schmoe on the street for disagreeing and all.

Originally posted by Fishy
You are IMO taking that quote of context..

"If you're not with me, you're my enemy."

Thats the absolute, black and white. Right and wrong nothing more.

Jedi tend to realise that there are grays out there, they don't kill everybody that doesn't agree with them. They don't rage wars to spread their idea's across the galaxy just to defend their goals. Thats the absolute here.. With me or against me, just black and white no grey.

Obi was right when he said that, because Jedi don't think like that. Of course they are against their enemy they are the enemy, but unlike the Sith they are not against the guy on the street that doesn't take sides. They would never kill them, Sith would.

Top man. thats exactly the point.

"If you're not with me, you're my enemy." that is the absolute.

you dont have to read into anything its right there in your face.

Originally posted by LandoSpeeder2
"Only Sith deal in absolutes." I don't like this at all. This should have been cut from the movie.


1. Sidious said evil or whatever is a point of view, kind of like, their really isn't such a thing as good and bad, just point of views, correct me if I'm wrong but isn't that the opposite of absolute?

2. If Jedi doesn't deal with absolutes then why are they saying the Sith is evil, and they seem to think their is right and wrong, the Jedi is basically based on absolutes.

3. This pretty much slams Christians, considering Christians deal in absolutes.

Perfectly logical standpoint. The Sith think linear while the Jedi wage both sides and decide on the most logical outcome. Therefore Yoda was correct when he said that.

I don't feel like wading through three pages, so this might have been said already.

In saying that "Only Sith deal in absolutes", Obi-Wan is dealing in absolutes. Pretty stupid of him.

mtryder: it's not stupid of him at all because stating a fact, i.e. acknowldging that there are absolutes, is not the same as dealing in them, i.e. making your decisions based only on the absolutes.

And here's my totally pointless, out-of-the-blue thought for this thread. If Sith deal in absolutes, they would not make good Car Salesmen....at all...Jedi would though. One wave of that hand and they can have their price met.