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Sorry, I just have to vent... kindly indulge me a moment.
It seems whenever a discussion is held about the origins of the name "Darth Vader" someone inevitably claims it means "dark father" in Dutch.
Now it may be possible that George Lucas had "dark father" in mind when he created the name (I for one doubt it - I still believe he didn't come up with the father angle until some time after ANH), but if he did, he probably only changed some letters to distort it and make it sound more GFFA, a technique he has used with a lot of names since (Zett Jukassa for Jett Lucas comes to mind).

ANYWAY, my point is: Nobody who claims the origins of the name are Dutch (and why the hell should they be?) ever seems to bother digging out an English-Dutch dictionary and actually try and verify those claims.

Well, I just did. Three different online dictionaries, in fact, just to be sure.

The good news:
"Vader" is indeed a Dutch word meaning "father".
(It is however pronounced a lot differently, more like "faah-der", not like "vay-der", but that's kinda beside the point and not really part of my argument.)

The bad news:
"darth" is not a word in the Dutch language. (I'm not 100% certain, but I'm fairly sure Dutch doesn't even have the English "th" sound.)
According to the dictionary, some Dutch words for "dark" are "somber", "duister", (those two being probably the closest to "dark" in a Darth Vader sense, meaning also "gloomy"/"ominous"/"sinister"/"scary", "donker" (also pretty close in meaning, but more likely to mean "not light" and "onverlicht" (meaning simply "unlit".

I hope this'll finally put at least one part of the "Vader" origin debate to rest.

To repeat, it's well within the realm of the possible that Lucas meant for the name to signify "dark father", but claims that the name is derived from Dutch are nonsense.

Thanks for listening. I'll get off the soapbox now.

(Any Dutch people out there, please feel free to correct or confirm me as Dutch is not my native language.)

It's nothing to do with Dutch per se, although you can make the comparison if you must - really it is just a play on words:

"'Darth' is a variation of dark. And 'Vader' is a variation of father. So it's basically Dark Father. All the names have history, but sometimes I make mistakes -- Luke was originally going to be called Luke Starkiller, but then I realized that wasn't appropriate for the character. It was appropriate for Anakin, but not his son. I said, 'Wait, we can't weigh this down too much -- he's the one that redeems him.'" - George Lucas, Rolling Stone, June 2005

We will never know what the name Vader means within the Star Wars universe, but Darth is widely accepted to be just a shortened form of Dark Lord of the Sith.

Thanks for the info thread, but it should be pointed out that Dutch moderator queeq made this point a long time ago (in a Galaxy far etc.) so it has always been generally known amongst the oldies that the Vader/Dutch thing was a myth.

It is still a widely propogated myth though, so nice to see another reminder.

Originally posted by Ushgarak
Thanks for the info thread, but it should be pointed out that Dutch moderator queeq made this point a long time ago (in a Galaxy far etc.)

Whoops - I must have searched the forums badly then. Apologies to all who were annoyed by my smartassing...

while were on it isn't Jedi the name of Japenese sitcom? lol i think i remmebr him saying something like that

Originally posted by Moosooman
while were on it isn't Jedi the name of Japenese sitcom? lol i think i remmebr him saying something like that

Japanese is notoriously hard to translate to Western languages, but "Jidai-Geki" is a term used to describe a number of theatrical forms of entertainment and movie genres, but primarily describes what we may more familiarly refer to as Samurai movies.
It basically means "costume drama" or "period piece".

We all know what a big influence the films of Akira Kurosawa were on Lucas - "Jedi" clearly has it's roots in the word "Jidai" and Lucas' desire to evoke the Samurai tradition.

Originally posted by SixOfTwelve
Whoops - I must have searched the forums badly then. Apologies to all who were annoyed by my smartassing...
*raises hand*
I'm a bit tired of all the star wars boards (not only on KMC) where some go spazz about how Darth Vader means Dark Father... no matter how many times you say (as you pointed out) that darth isn't a dutch word and that the father plotline only got in in ESB! So by now, any thread I see ("proving" or disproving this) makes me annoyed by the.

but on a more happy note... there are words in dutch written with "th", like ether ... or did you mean the sound of it?

Originally posted by yerssot
but on a more happy note... there are words in dutch written with "th", like ether ... or did you mean the sound of it?

I meant the sound, the dental fricative. (Ha! Paying attention in phonetics class finally paid off!)

ah, as far as I know, there is no word that has that sound in Dutch

The "Vajen-Bader" patented self contained smoke rescue self contained breathing apparatus was in frequent use by fire companies in American cities from the 1890's onwards.

Certainly the distinctive appearance (and the equally recognizable noise cycle generated by labored inspiration and expiration) would have been well known to the older generation of props and FX men employed by Lucas on the original SW IV set.

There a strong case (enough to be considered carefully anyway) for the name 'Darth Vader' being an alliterative allusion to the proprietary name "Vajen-Bader" widely once used for this type of face mask.

Go and search for some images. Some sites have it as "Vagen-Bader" with a 'G'. I dare say, the inventors, they were both Dutch.)

http://www.firemuseumnetwork.org/misc/Vajen.gif

http://www.auroraregionalfiremuseum.org/giftshop/1896figure/image/1896lvajen-bader1.jpg

http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=ahrXTHEjHxgC&pg=PA112&lpg=PA112&dq=vagen+bader+company&source=web&ots=Q9go7BZ9Yc&sig=A2TzEeN8DL81Ct9gXC9m8ybB-Dk&hl=en&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=1&ct=result

Errrr..... how weird. And far fetched.

Yes.

Very.

Of course.

Word.

Originally posted by Ordo
Word.

I like your sig. Very cool.

I like your artwork under the link under your sig. What program do you use? I am espicially interested in how you make the lightsabers look so good.

Originally posted by boundless
The "Vajen-Bader" patented self contained smoke rescue self contained breathing apparatus was in frequent use by fire companies in American cities from the 1890's onwards.

Certainly the distinctive appearance (and the equally recognizable noise cycle generated by labored inspiration and expiration) would have been well known to the older generation of props and FX men employed by Lucas on the original SW IV set.

There a strong case (enough to be considered carefully anyway) for the name 'Darth Vader' being an alliterative allusion to the proprietary name "Vajen-Bader" widely once used for this type of face mask.

Go and search for some images. Some sites have it as "Vagen-Bader" with a 'G'. I dare say, the inventors, they were both Dutch.)

http://www.firemuseumnetwork.org/misc/Vajen.gif

http://www.auroraregionalfiremuseum.org/giftshop/1896figure/image/1896lvajen-bader1.jpg

http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=ahrXTHEjHxgC&pg=PA112&lpg=PA112&dq=vagen+bader+company&source=web&ots=Q9go7BZ9Yc&sig=A2TzEeN8DL81Ct9gXC9m8ybB-Dk&hl=en&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=1&ct=result

Looks more like something you would see in Hellboy. GL would have had to have seen a lot more than that to get to the actual design for Darth Vader (or I imagine, his design team).

Originally posted by SixOfTwelve

(It is however pronounced a lot differently, more like "faah-der",


That's how Asians say father in English movies.

dutch don't pronounce it faa-der.
The v is still a v, not an f. Perhaps the one who wrote that talked to a walloon?

Zwaard strijd.

Inderdaad.

Natuurlijk.

Darth Vader could also mean... DEVIATOR!


He did "deviate" from the Jedi teachings!


(Just a thought!)

Let's keep it "just a thought".

Hoe Nederlands/Belgisch ben jij eigenlijk, Sweersa?

Ik ben half Dutch.

Yes George Lucas named the biggest villain of all times Darth Vader because vader means father in a language he probably had never heard of.

Well, when I was little I actually believed he was named after my language ... Guess I was wrong though.

Originally posted by sweersa
Ik ben half Dutch.

Cool.

Originally posted by queeq
Cool.

Yes. Queeq do most people in the Netherlands speak Dutch or is English the norm?

This show looks interesting:

http://www.bnn.nl/page/home/nieuws/59513

They are playing one of my favorite GN'R songs.

Originally posted by sweersa
Yes. Queeq do most people in the Netherlands speak Dutch or is English the norm?
I have no idea where you get your info, but they, obviously, speak Arabic.

Originally posted by Hybris
Yes George Lucas named the biggest villain of all times Darth Vader because vader means father in a language he probably had never heard of. He hadn't heard of the dutch language before? A bit far fetched, even with the sarcasm.

not at all... Dutch is spoken by only a few million people.
Granted, Adams from Hitchhiker knew about it and also made Belgium one of the worse swearwords there is... but why would some director from the US in the '70's know that Vader is Dutch for Father?

Originally posted by sweersa
Yes. Queeq do most people in the Netherlands speak Dutch or is English the norm?

This show looks interesting:

http://www.bnn.nl/page/home/nieuws/59513

They are playing one of my favorite GN'R songs.

We all speak Dutch, dude. But most of us understand English as well.

Haven't seen that show yet... but then, there are more like that.

Over 20 million people speak the language.

Originally posted by Slash_KMC
Over 20 million people speak the language.
out of 6.75 million people. I can hardly call that a known language... if he wants an "unknown" European language he was better of with Romansch from Switzerland. And for arguments sake: if he took it from Dutch, why would he name a character Father and than 3 years later think "hey, I named him Father, so let him be a father"?

Well, there always was a plan for Vader to be Luke's father. But I am not convinced he took it from Dutch myself. I think it's short for Invader or something. It just sounds cool.

Originally posted by queeq
We all speak Dutch, dude. But most of us understand English as well.

Haven't seen that show yet... but then, there are more like that.

I assumed that but I just wondered if Dutch people ever speak English openly to each other.

Why would we?

actually, we do in Belgium when we feel the other is more comfortable in that language

Originally posted by queeq
Why would we?

Just curious, seems some people try to push English as a universal language like in Star Wars.

Originally posted by Jovan
not at all... Dutch is spoken by only a few million people.
Granted, Adams from Hitchhiker knew about it and also made Belgium one of the worse swearwords there is... but why would some director from the US in the '70's know that Vader is Dutch for Father? Knowing what words mean in a language is much different than knowing or having heard about the language itself. I don't quite understand how you could get that twisted around. I don't know a lick of swahili, but I know the language exists...see my point?

Plus, you seem to contradict yourself later on by saying this:

Originally posted by Jovan
out of 6.75 million people. I can hardly call that a known language... if he wants an "unknown" European language he was better of with Romansch from Switzerland.

Perhaps I'm reading what you said differently than what you actually meant? Were you agreeing with me or disagreeing that Lucas had heard about the Dutch language before?

Originally posted by Jovan
actually, we do in Belgium when we feel the other is more comfortable in that language

What are you talking about ? No we don't ... We always speak dutch to eachother.

Belgians...

Originally posted by queeq
Belgians... They make good waffles?

Slash, are you from the north or the south?
We always adapt to people's linguistic skills: if a walloon sucks at dutch we switch to french to help him out... if someone who recently got to belgium sucks at speaking dutch, we will speak english to help him out.


Originally posted by Darth Macabre
Knowing what words mean in a language is much different than knowing or having heard about the language itself. I don't quite understand how you could get that twisted around. I don't know a lick of swahili, but I know the language exists...see my point?

Plus, you seem to contradict yourself later on by saying this:



Perhaps I'm reading what you said differently than what you actually meant? Were you agreeing with me or disagreeing that Lucas had heard about the Dutch language before?
Sorry, my english sucks the biggest apeballs you'll ever see.
What I say is that he might have known at that time that Dutch exists but I highly doubt that he knew in 1975 (the time he started working on A new Hope) that Vader is Dutch for Father.
so: language yes, vader no

I absolutely LOVE Dutch Stroopwafles!

They are superb.

Originally posted by queeq
They are superb.

I know, we went to a Dutch store and got a little tin with them inside...ohhhhh....I need to buy the largest multipack they have next time!

Originally posted by Jovan
Slash, are you from the north or the south?
We always adapt to people's linguistic skills: if a walloon sucks at dutch we switch to french to help him out... if someone who recently got to belgium sucks at speaking dutch, we will speak english to help him out.

I'm flemish, I thought you were saying that we sometimes talk english to eachother. But yeah it's true, we always try to speak the other guy's language instead of they speaking ours.

mijn schuld, mijn engels zuigt

da van mij ook, ma ik zit altijd liever op engelstalige forums, vraag me ni waarom ...

Coca Cola.

Keep it in English dudes. Or in Dutch: alles graag in Engels.

I simply apolegised for my lousy English

As long as you do that in English...

Don't you mean Basic? Hahaha.

Errr...nope.

Originally posted by queeq
Errr...nope.

That is EU talk for English.

Even worse.

Originally posted by queeq
Even worse.

Of course, maybe I should have censored that.

Yes.

Indeed (hehe)

Too late now.

Originally posted by queeq
Too late now.

It is never too late for a Mod.

Hahaha.

It's too late for you though.

Originally posted by queeq
It's too late for you though.

Ouch, hahaha.

Originally posted by queeq


Soon is the word.

Soon it's all over?

Originally posted by queeq
Soon it's all over?

Of course.

For you.

Never! I will never leave this place alive!

So be it.... Sweersa. "*sends sith lightning to sweers*

*Throws queeq down reactor shaft.*

Oh... well... like I'm such a jolt. There are no reactor shafts here. I'm not as dumb as Sidious...

Originally posted by queeq
So be it.... Sweersa. "*sends sith lightning to sweers*

Ahhh! "Father please, what would Padme think?"

Darth Vader: "Who is Padme?"

Hehehe, even I sometimes don't mind making fun of Lucas. I still love the guy to death though.

I'd love him more if he'd go back to the soul of SW. Or let it rest and make something new and exciting.

Originally posted by queeq
I'd love him more if he'd go back to the soul of SW. Or let it rest and make something new and exciting.

Yeah, Howard the Duck sequel.

YOU SAID IT!!

Apologies in advance for bumping this thread (it's not been a year quite yet...), but I ran across something regarding a possible Star Wars / Dutch connection beyond the usual Vader = Father thing. When I Googled for the topic, this thread came up, so here I am.

To the point: is anyone familiar with the "Netherlands Antilles" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Netherlands_Antilles)?

Wedge, anyone?

P.S. Might wanna tell your spellcheck that "Googled" is a word.