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The battle takes place in an abandoned Moscow in during the most savage russian winter in human history.


The Contenders:


Scoobless

Flash Thordon

Quasar: Mind/Quantum Bands
Flash: Power
Thor: Body/Hammer/Power

Flash (Wally West)
http://www.hyperborea.org/flash/wally.html

Quasar
http://www.quantumzone.org/behind_t...ntum-bands.html

Thor
http://www.avengersforever.org/char.../Characters.asp

vs

K Von Doom

Morgred the Martian:

Morg - body, powers, axe
Mordred - mind, magic, powers
Martian Manhunter - powers

Morg
http://www.classicmarvel.com/cast/morg.htm

Martian Manhunter
http://www.starnet-database.com/dba.../manhunter.html

Mordred the mystic
http://www.marvunapp.com/Appendix2/modredmystic.htm





K Von Doom will post his own strategy

Vote Now!

Good plan Scoob.

http://www.quantumzone.org/behind_t...ntum-bands.html
Is a dead link.

First off, in the one hour prep-time before the fight, Morgred will be familiarising himself with his new powers which would not be all that difficult with him. Morg's high resistance/invulnerability and strength takes little time to get used to. To Morgred, MM's intangibility would be just like using a spell of intangibility but without the words. Morg's cosmic powers would be similar to mystical force bolts and shields. Mordred already has telepathy so MM's would just be a power increase. How quickly will it take Morgred to master all these newfound abilities? Regular Mordred quickly mastered heightened elemental powers and increased magical powers when Chthon took possession of his soul and seeing as Chthon still has his soul, Morgred would be able to master all these powers relatively quickly - learning new powers is nothing new to him. In the last two minutes of prep time, Morgred creates several dozen duplicates of himself, all protected by mystic and cosmic shields....

No doubt, Flash Thordon's Class 100 strength coupled with the speedforce would be able to quickly take down a slower character but how would he be able to attack me when Morgred is covered by mystical and cosmic shields, plus being intangible in addition to having multiple simulacrums around? Use the Q-bands to pummel by shields? No good, magic slices through those constructs as though they weren't even there. Cosmic awareness to find the real Morgred? Nope, he gave that back to Epoch when he came of age (or Epoch took it back). Use the hammer? Is Wendell even worthy of lifting Mjolnir? Protectors of the Universe are born, not made and Thor had to prove himself worthy of lifting Mjolnir. Use Thor's superstrength? Yep, that's the only avenue left open.

Now that I've established that there's no way for Flash Thordon to get to my character to harm him, Morgred would go on the offensive. Firstly, global-level telepathy would pummel Wendell's mind and seeing as he doesn't have an efficient defense mechanism against such an attack, the effects would last the entire fight. It wouldn't KO him but it'll serve as a distraction and a constant drain on his mind. Morgred's duplicates are also realistic enough to fool beings with enhanced senses (the Demogorge), so while Flash is busy running around trying to find the right one, each behind a mystic and cosmic shield, Morgred waits for an opening.

At an opportune moment, the shields drop and Morgred with all his duplicates pile on Flash Thordon. Mystical fire (magic coupled with elemental) burns off the quantum armor that Flash will no doubt be wearing, which now leaves him with just Thor's durability and resitance. At that moment, Morgred uses his earth powers to conjure a giant earth hand, enhanced by magic and cosmic powers, to grab Flash and hold him in place. This will hold Flash Thordon for about a millisecond before he breaks free, just enough time for Morg to punch him in the side of the head for the KO... or decapitate him with his axe. Is Morgred fast enough to do this? He can hang with a speedster like Surfer. Morgred won't get into a long drawn out fight with Thordon. My character is definitely outclassed in terms of foot speed but when it comes to stand-up fighting speed, Morgred will be able to hold his own, and then some because of Morgred's experience - he's had his face melted and arm ripped off in the same fight and still kept going.

To summarise my defense...
- Morgred is always protected by cosmic and mystical shields
- He's intangible so he can't be physically harmed
- Telepathically protected
- Highly invulnerable/resistant via Morg's body
- Illusions to draw attention away from himself

To summarise my offense...
- Superstrength, equal to Thor, at least, and higher when enhanced by power cosmic
- Telepathic attacks for which Flash Thordon has no immunity
- Illusions real enough to fool higher beings
- Command of the entire book of Darkhold
- Elemental powers
- Mystical abilities which slice through Quantum constructs
- Cosmic axe for the finishing touch, sharp enough to injure Firelord and kill Nova

ooh nice! KV! you get him good!!!

I hate Scoob for having a Character who is vulnerable totally to magic, then having a hammer than absorbs all magic...

Originally posted by Evangel94
Once the battle starts FT isn't waiting around to find out what MTM has up his sleeve so he rushes in at top speed (lightspeed or there about) while blasting with full power mystical/electromagnetic energies while simultaneously draining the energies from MTM, if MTM has a magical shield up then the Quantum blasting will pass straight through, if he has a cosmic shield then the energy draining will severly affect it making it weak enough for a charged up FT to smash through like it was wet tissue paper, if he becomes intangible (which is highly doubtful as it's part of MM's bodily functions and takes a great deal of skill to accomplish) then the magical aspect of the blasts will still smack him around as it's magic-based, it's not physical, so physical intangibility wouldn't be a factor

either way Morgred the Martian is getting hit with something which will either kill, knock out or stun him... if it kills him or KOs him then the fight is over... if it merely stuns him then following it up with 100 full strength smacks with Mjolnir in under a second will finish it

Morg is fast in terms of travel speed.... but he's outmatched here by a combination of Quasar and Flash flight and reaction speeds, he is also strong but that counts for nothing when the opponent sees you as though you move in slow motion... likewise the axe doesn't come into play.... unless i steal it from him and decapitate him with it.... big grin .....

Manhunters powers - Strength and intangibility come from his ability to control his own molecular structure.... Mordred's mind is not going to have much (if any) skill using these so his only addition to the team becomes some, if any, boost to telepathy.... which is negated by Quasar

"He's also programmed the quantum-bands to automatically protect his mind from psionic influence by producing a jamming wave in his mind."
http://www.quantumzone.org/behind_t...ntum-bands.html

With Mordred as the mind i can only assume that the main body of his attack will be magical... Thor's hammer can stop or absorb any magical blast, Quasar can cut through any magical construct or shield ... and with my speed you only get one shot.... and that's only if you can perform the spell within one hundredth of a second (which is highly doubtful)

Scoob.... cool




Dammit Scoob! You wrote too much!

Anyhoo, I've posted my first strategy above and now to counter yours:

Flash Thordon will be blasting right into the fight but which of my simulacrums will you be blasting? You're gonna be using the Q-bands against mystical shields? That'll be quite useless as Q-energies have no effect on magic, whereas a mystical bolt will pass right through a quantum construct, like a hot knife through butter. You can start absorbing the magical and cosmic energy shields that I'll have protecting me and my duplicates, but magic doesn't operate at light speed, and a magic shield will be my outer shield which you'll have to get past first before you can absorb the inner cosmic shield, and even once you get through with the first one, chances are it'll be a duplicate Morgred - of course, you won't know this seeing as you won't be able to hit him or the real Morgred because of my intangibility.

Actually, Morg travels at warp speed but he's also fast in terms of fighting speed - he wouldn't have been able to hang with the Surfer or Terrax if he fought any slower. Anyways, if for some reason or chance, Flash Thordon did connect with a punch, he's not taking out Morg with one punch as he's fought against someone as strong as Thor and as fast as Flash.

Quasar's programmed his bands to protect him from psionic influence, yes, but Morgred isn't trying to control him... he's blasting him with psionic blasts. Quite different.

Also, Quasar's human mind will be operating as normal, not at light speed. Imagine Flash Thordon using Flash's speed but his human mind not fast enough to comprehend - watch him run into my axe. Heh.

Anyways, that's it for now

Well, part of Flash's power is his reaction speed and endurance.
That power would give the guys mind those reflexes.
But certianly Flash isn't experienced enough to use speed force.

Originally posted by K Von Doom
Also, Quasar's human mind will be operating as normal, not at light speed. Imagine Flash Thordon using Flash's speed but his human mind not fast enough to comprehend - watch him run into my axe. Heh.


Very nice.

Originally posted by long pig
http://www.quantumzone.org/behind_t...ntum-bands.html
Is a dead link.

weird

http://www.quantumzone.org/behind_the_scenes/everything_quantum-bands.html

hope that works

Originally posted by K Von Doom
Use the Q-bands to pummel by shields? No good, magic slices through those constructs as though they weren't even there

this actually works both ways.... yes magic blasts willl slice through Quantum constructs.... but Quantum blasts and constructs will also cut through magical shields and creations

Originally posted by K Von Doom
To summarise my defense...
- Morgred is always protected by cosmic and mystical shields
- He's intangible so he can't be physically harmed
- Telepathically protected
- Highly invulnerable/resistant via Morg's body
- Illusions to draw attention away from himself

- mystical shields can by completely bypassed with Quantum attacks
- Cosmic shields can by drained or smashed with my earth chucking enhanced strength
- intangibility on a physical level wont be great protection from magical/mystical blasts
- i don't have telepathic attacks..... so good for you....
- Morg's resistance can't handle my boosted strength
- illusions wont fool the Quantum bands energy detection... or mjolnir's

Originally posted by K Von Doom
To summarise my offense...
- Superstrength, equal to Thor, at least, and higher when enhanced by power cosmic
- Telepathic attacks for which Flash Thordon has no immunity
- Illusions real enough to fool higher beings
- Command of the entire book of Darkhold
- Elemental powers
- Mystical abilities which slice through Quantum constructs
- Cosmic axe for the finishing touch, sharp enough to injure Firelord and kill Nova

- Thordons strength greatly surpasses Thor's thanks to the Quantum boosting
- Quantum bands provide protection from telepathy ... plus Thor also has mystical protection from mental assaults..... now i know i'm not using Thor's mind, but i have his body... therefore i have his brain.... which is protected
- fool higher beings .... but not the bands
- Darkhold suxx ballzz..... lol.... either way i can Quantum tear up anything you create.... much like you can do to me
- Complete mastery of natural and mystical storms>=Elemental powers
- "Mystical abilities which slice through Quantum constructs" i don't argue that.... but as stated... it works both ways
- Cosmic axe, Hammer wielded at Flash speeds trumps your axe.... plus i'm just gonna rip it out your hand and chop you own legs off with it

Originally posted by K Von Doom
Also, Quasar's human mind will be operating as normal, not at light speed. Imagine Flash Thordon using Flash's speed but his human mind not fast enough to comprehend - watch him run into my axe. Heh.


The speed force brings with it the reaction time capable to handle the speeds..... while i may not have full mastery over everything speedforce related i wont be running into axes.... you will still appear to be swinging in slow motion

if that wasn't the case then the Flash and Impulse(or kid flash.... "dumbest name EVER!" would have made paste out of themselves first time they went for a jog

Originally posted by K Von Doom
Flash Thordon will be blasting right into the fight but which of my simulacrums will you be blasting?

all of them..... as soon as i notice duplicates popping up i create three weapons platforms for each one..... as soon as each gets hit once the blast will tell me straight away which is real or fake..... plus the Quantum bands sensing the Cosmic energies should be a dead giveaway

Originally posted by K Von Doom
Use the hammer? Is Wendell even worthy of lifting Mjolnir? Protectors of the Universe are born, not made and Thor had to prove himself worthy of lifting Mjolnir.

Thor's essence is still within the Thordon character... so i believe he is capable of using the hammer.... much like the Amalgams in the erm.... amalgam stories between Marvel and DC

of course i could go the other way and say it would be like when Superman lifted it and argue that Odin let's him use it as he knows his son's essence will be at risk

Originally posted by K Von Doom
Use Thor's superstrength? Yep, that's the only avenue left open.

Thor's strength boosted by a hell of a lot



Originally posted by long pig
I hate Scoob for having a Character who is vulnerable totally to magic, then having a hammer than absorbs all magic...

"while his forcefield could resist an adamantium blade, the Black Knight's magical ebony blade would be able to slice through Quasar's best quantum shield like tissue. Fortunately, magicians have no control over the energies he manipulates so he should be able to slam an energy construct through a mystical shield of Seraphim, for instance."

http://www.quantumzone.org/behind_the_scenes/everything_quantum-bands.html

Okay, here's a limitation of the Q-bands which I don't need to extrapolate further seeing as Morgred is a master magician:

"Magic. He cannot absorb it, he cannot resist it. Magic can bind him, magicians can even take over his mind"

- taken from www.quantumzone.org

here's the whole thing

"Magic. He cannot absorb it, he cannot resist it. Magic can bind him, magicians can even take over his mind. A bolt of magic will penetrate his force field. However, an enchanted physical object will only be as strong as the object itself would otherwise be: while his forcefield could resist an adamantium blade, the Black Knight's magical ebony blade would be able to slice through Quasar's best quantum shield like tissue. Fortunately, magicians have no control over the energies he manipulates so he should be able to slam an energy construct through a mystical shield of Seraphim, for instance"
http://www.quantumzone.org/behind_the_scenes/everything_quantum-bands.html

Thor still has mental protection from psionic attacks as well.... that plus the speed he'll be attacking at wont leave MTM enough time to form a thought let alone to try and take over his mind

Originally posted by Scoobless
- mystical shields can by completely bypassed with Quantum attacks
- Cosmic shields can by drained or smashed with my earth chucking enhanced strength
- intangibility on a physical level wont be great protection from magical/mystical blasts
- i don't have telepathic attacks..... so good for you....
- Morg's resistance can't handle my boosted strength
- illusions wont fool the Quantum bands energy detection... or mjolnir's

- Thordons strength greatly surpasses Thor's thanks to the Quantum boosting
- Quantum bands provide protection from telepathy ... plus Thor also has mystical protection from mental assaults..... now i know i'm not using Thor's mind, but i have his body... therefore i have his brain.... which is protected
- fool higher beings .... but not the bands
- Darkhold suxx ballzz..... lol.... either way i can Quantum tear up anything you create.... much like you can do to me
- Complete mastery of natural and mystical storms>=Elemental powers
- "Mystical abilities which slice through Quantum constructs" i don't argue that.... but as stated... it works both ways
- Cosmic axe, Hammer wielded at Flash speeds trumps your axe.... plus i'm just gonna rip it out your hand and chop you own legs off with it

The speed force brings with it the reaction time capable to handle the speeds..... while i may not have full mastery over everything speedforce related i wont be running into axes.... you will still appear to be swinging in slow motion

all of them..... as soon as i notice duplicates popping up i create three weapons platforms for each one..... as soon as each gets hit once the blast will tell me straight away which is real or fake..... plus the Quantum bands sensing the Cosmic energies should be a dead giveaway

Thor's essence is still within the Thordon character... so i believe he is capable of using the hammer.... much like the Amalgams in the erm.... amalgam stories between Marvel and DC

of course i could go the other way and say it would be like when Superman lifted it and argue that Odin let's him use it as he knows his son's essence will be at risk


Okay... the Q-bands may be able to bypass the mystical shields however you'll still have cosmic shields to deal with. As per Quasar's standard operating procedure he'll start draining the shields till they're non-existent or you could start pounding on them but this'll take time so you won't be pummelling all my duplicates in 0.3 nanoseconds. Each of my duplicates will have a cosmic shield so you won't be able to tell if they're real or fake by tracing cosmic energies.

Intangibility protects me from physical attacks so Thordon's strength will be quite useless. Magical attacks will also be negated by Mordred's magic and the Darkhold.

Morg's resistance will be sufficient as a back-up if this turns into a boxing match but with Morgred's versatility, going toe-to-toe with Thordon will somewhat be a last resort, and even then my chances will be even - try punching or hammering someone who's intangible.

Thordon's strength will be equal to Thor's. It will only be enhanced while wearing some type of Quantum armor - which will be quickly removed by mystical fire. Well... if you have Thor's brain then I'll have Morg's cosmic senses and reaction time because that's part of his physiology - which means no one will be moving at snail's pace. Which I won't be anyway, Morg's reaction and fighting speed is the same as the Surfer's.

As I already stated in my previous post, the Q-bands can't protect you from a magician trying to take over your mind. Thor? Hmm... how many times has he been enchanted or influenced by a sorcerer/ess?

Elemental powers = power over the elements, not weather. You can make storms, wind and lightning. I'll control the water and snow that falls, the earth, fire... and Morgred can make these out of nothing, not just control what's existing.

Well... Morgred won't be using the axe, except as a coup de grace or a killing blow.

I bring up the "worthiness" thing because young Thor also had "Thor's essence" but he wasn't able to lift it. But I'll be handicapping you if the hammer's taken away so I'll give you that.

Take that Scoob!

Originally posted by K Von Doom
Okay... the Q-bands may be able to bypass the mystical shields

yup...

Originally posted by K Von Doom
you'll still have cosmic shields to deal with. As per Quasar's standard operating procedure he'll start draining the shields till they're non-existent or you could start pounding on them but this'll take time so you won't be pummelling all my duplicates in 0.3 nanoseconds. Each of my duplicates will have a cosmic shield so you won't be able to tell if they're real or fake by tracing cosmic energies.

your duplicates are handled by my automated Quantum weapon platforms and will provide little or no additional distraction
Quasar will also be able to trace the Cosmic energy back to the source relatively easily

Originally posted by K Von Doom
Intangibility protects me from physical attacks so Thordon's strength will be quite useless. Magical attacks will also be negated by Mordred's magic and the Darkhold.

Mjolnirs continual mystical barrage when enhanced by Quantum energies will take down any shield.... intangibility can also be affected by certain energies both natural and mystical... as Quasar controls almost all natural energies it would only be a matter of time (time passed at superspeed) until he found one type that effects your form

Originally posted by K Von Doom
Morg's resistance will be sufficient as a back-up if this turns into a boxing match
Thordon's strength will be equal to Thor's. It will only be enhanced while wearing some type of Quantum armor

not really.... Morg may be able to match Thor in a boxing match but this is an amplified Thor with much greater reaction speed.... Quantum armour isn't needed to enhance his strength ... he just channels the power into himself

Originally posted by K Von Doom
Morg's reaction and fighting speed is the same as the Surfer's.

which is still well below the Flash's..... it's argued a lot that Surfer has warp speed reactions.... but it has never been shown... Flash shows it all the time.... if Surfer had reaction speeds like the Flash then he would have no trouble at all with Thanos

Originally posted by K Von Doom
Thor? Hmm... how many times has he been enchanted or influenced by a sorcerer/ess?

if he had an easy to influence mind then Loki would've taken him over long ago..... or the Enchantress... or one of the many other beings of godly magic he fights

Originally posted by K Von Doom
Elemental powers = power over the elements, not weather. You can make storms, wind and lightning. I'll control the water and snow that falls, the earth, fire... and Morgred can make these out of nothing, not just control what's existing.


i wasn't even going to mention the weather as it wouldn't really affect either combatant

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

there's more counter strategy..... time to go on offense

Thordon has limitless energy at his disposal via the Quantum bands, with his mind operating at Flash levels he can create hundreds of constructs a second..... Quasar has given the Surfer plenty of trouble before at his regular speed so this should be more than enough to assault and take down shields of anyone with around the Surfer's level of power cosmic.... this assault can happen alongside the continual hammer blasts as that requires less concentration once it's begun (more of an on-off thing) .... so a cosmic shield destroying assault that wont notice your magical shields is on you..... your only defence is intangibility which will only protect you for the few moments it takes for Thordon to run through every universal energy at his disposal.... though i do believe magical energy blasts can affect the physically intangible i have definitely Vision, Moonstone and other phasers hampered by various energy blasts and fields

Originally posted by Scoobless
your duplicates are handled by my automated Quantum weapon platforms and will provide little or no additional distraction
Quasar will also be able to trace the Cosmic energy back to the source relatively easily

Mjolnirs continual mystical barrage when enhanced by Quantum energies will take down any shield.... intangibility can also be affected by certain energies both natural and mystical... as Quasar controls almost all natural energies it would only be a matter of time (time passed at superspeed) until he found one type that effects your form

not really.... Morg may be able to match Thor in a boxing match but this is an amplified Thor with much greater reaction speed.... Quantum armour isn't needed to enhance his strength ... he just channels the power into himself

which is still well below the Flash's..... it's argued a lot that Surfer has warp speed reactions.... but it has never been shown... Flash shows it all the time.... if Surfer had reaction speeds like the Flash then he would have no trouble at all with Thanos

if he had an easy to influence mind then Loki would've taken him over long ago..... or the Enchantress... or one of the many other beings of godly magic he fights

i wasn't even going to mention the weather as it wouldn't really affect either combatant

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

there's more counter strategy..... time to go on offense

Thordon has limitless energy at his disposal via the Quantum bands, with his mind operating at Flash levels he can create hundreds of constructs a second..... Quasar has given the Surfer plenty of trouble before at his regular speed so this should be more than enough to assault and take down shields of anyone with around the Surfer's level of power cosmic.... this assault can happen alongside the continual hammer blasts as that requires less concentration once it's begun (more of an on-off thing) .... so a cosmic shield destroying assault that wont notice your magical shields is on you..... your only defence is intangibility which will only protect you for the few moments it takes for Thordon to run through every universal energy at his disposal.... though i do believe magical energy blasts can affect the physically intangible i have definitely Vision, Moonstone and other phasers hampered by various energy blasts and fields

"Automated Quantum Weapon Platforms"? Nice try Scoob. I love Quasar and I wish he could do that but...

"However, there is a definite limit to the number of things he can animate at the same time. If a construct has moving parts--say, two blades of a pair of scissors--it will take concentration to keep that object operating. When he stops thinking about it, it will stop moving though it will not blink out of existence"

"While it's possible to perform two similar but different tasks at the same time it's difficult and takes longer than doing a sequence of separate tasks. In other words, to form a shield and a chair at the same time would probably take him just as long as forming one first and then the other, and they probably would not be as well constructed as doing them separately."

... if Quasar has to concentrate to operate a pair of scissors...

FT wouldn't be able to channel quantum energy straight into himself. I mean, how many times have you seen Quasar lifting heavy weights all by his lonesome? He uses the Q-bands to make armor in order for him to do that. The Q-bands are strictly and outer power, not used to enhance strength and agility.

Hmm... you're saying Flash would beat Thanos? All the heralds have hightened reaction speed, if not, do you know how many planets and moons they'd be bumping into while flying at warp speed? So, additionally, if they can fly and react at warp speed, then they'd be fighting at that speed.

I believe you'll agree that Loki and Enchantress have both, at one time or another, influenced, clouded or controlled Thor's mind. Of course, in the end, being the hero Thor would break free. But that's after a while - but this fight will last about two minutes at the longest.

While Q-bands can neglect mystical shields, Quasar can still be bound by mystical means so the crimson bands aren't out of the question.

I wasn't going to mention the weather either but my point was just to counter your claim that weather control > elemental powers.

A new offense would go like this....

- The real Morgred will be in the middle of the battlefield once the fight begins
- He's surrounded by numerous duplicates which he created during prep time. In addition, these duplicates are protected by magical and cosmic shields
- Morgred is intangible
- Thordon starts hammering through the shields looking for the real Morgred
- A constant stream of telepathic blasts attack Thordon's mind, rendering him incapable of creating effective Q-constructs on the fly (see Q-bands limitations)
- Dozens of earth pillars shoot up from the ground forcing Thordon to split his time between hammering shields and dodging the pillars
- Mystical fire engulfs Thordon as he's flying around, taking away any Quantum armor he might be wearing and any strength enhancements that gave him, leaving him with regular Thor strength
- While Thordon is busy dodging pillars and attempting to break shields, all the duplicate Morgreds throw their axes at him, and Thordon, not knowing that they're merely illusions, evades them, putting him more on the defensive
- Then Morgred casts a mystical mind-clouding spell that convinces Thordon that the real Morgred is right in front of him... Thordon throws Mjolnir towards his foe, convinced that it'll break through any shield, which it won't but that doesn't matter
- As Thordon releases Mjolnir, the crimson bands of cytorrak grab hold of his arms, holding them in place, a giant earth formation grabs hold of the rest of him... then the real Morgred teleports behind Thordon. He plunges his arm right into Thordon's back and rips out his spine... ending the fight (just as he did with the Demogorge)

That doesn't sound very nice at all... Give peace a chance, people.

Originally posted by Scoobless
"Magic. He cannot absorb it, he cannot resist it. Magic can bind him, magicians can even take over his mind.

Emphasizing this bit but I'll be kind and not take over his mind, just cloud it enough... for now. And it's Wendell's mind, not Thor's brain, not that it makes any difference... both can be sufficiently confused

too....much...information.....gyahhh!

Nice fight. This is how they all should be (longpig/Sentry came the closest in my mind).

Question...I think I understand the magic/Quantum stuff, but would they collide into each other and cancel each other out? Or are they (quantum energy and magical energy) operating on different levels of energy and therefore just 'going through' each other?

That it for now...points to KVD for the gruesome ending there, but I haven't made my mind up yet, so keep it up.

-DM

From what I know, the Quantum Bands operate on the electromagnetic spectrum so magic, being an odd power, is outside of the Band's influence... Quasar can't detect, absorb, block or trace it. The only way that Quasar finds out that a power is magic based is when his Quantum bands get no energy signature from it. That's from the comics.

From Quasar's website that Scoob provided... a quantum construct will pass right through a magic shield, just like a mystical blast cuts through a quantum shield... as though they weren't even there. So, for instance, if Dr Strange shoots some magical energy, Quasar won't be able to redirect it or block it with the Q-bands, all he can do is get out of the way. Similarly, if Quasar makes a quantum hammer to squash the Sorcerer Supreme, Dr Strange has to get out of the way or conjure an actual physical shield (like granite or steel), he can't block it via mystical energy (shield of the seraphim). Hope that clears things up.

Thanks, it does.

Another question (sorry, they just keep popping into my head), KVD, is your character's telepathy (Mordred's) magic-based? Or is it regular (i.e. Xavier, Manhunter-type, etc.)?? Some characters have magic-mind-messing (sorry, unofficial term) while others just have normal telepathy in addition to their magical powers. Normally it wouldn't make much difference, but you can probably see how it does in this fight.

-DM

Manhunter's telepathy is psionic, inherent like Xavier's. Mordred's telepathy is magic based, given to him by Chthon.

Scoobless.

Seems to have a firmer grasp on the characters' capabilities and a more accurate battle plan.

Damn this is close. A lot of info to read. I'll vote tomorrow morning.

I'm thinkin mezmerism/telepathy would keep Scoobs guy off balance far too much to put up a good fight..
Still need to ponder.

If by some how this thread is done before i get back tomorrow i'll say KVD

Wow, good debate. I think that I'll wait before I vote.

YEAR ONE: BATMAN/SCARECROW #1 (OF 2):

Some guy: "Whoa, girl, this is the Bat! The Legend! An his homie, The Pidgeon!"

Robin: "Actually, it is Robin..."

Originally posted by K Von Doom
"Automated Quantum Weapon Platforms"? Nice try Scoob. I love Quasar and I wish he could do that but...

"However, there is a definite limit to the number of things he can animate at the same time. If a construct has moving parts--say, two blades of a pair of scissors--it will take concentration to keep that object operating. When he stops thinking about it, it will stop moving though it will not blink out of existence"

nice quote.... but it may not be technically accurate.... in the Avengers he has been seen to have constructed automated listening outposts throughout the galaxy while still performing other tasks.... if he can do one then why not the other?

Originally posted by K Von Doom
... if Quasar has to concentrate to operate a pair of scissors...

FT wouldn't be able to channel quantum energy straight into himself. I mean, how many times have you seen Quasar lifting heavy weights all by his lonesome? He uses the Q-bands to make armor in order for him to do that. The Q-bands are strictly and outer power, not used to enhance strength and agility.

actually they can do precisely that...."Quasar could also use the quantum-bands to bolster his metabolism............... to give him superhuman strength and prowess." (same site)

Originally posted by K Von Doom
Hmm... you're saying Flash would beat Thanos? All the heralds have hightened reaction speed, if not, do you know how many planets and moons they'd be bumping into while flying at warp speed? So, additionally, if they can fly and react at warp speed, then they'd be fighting at that speed.

Heralds can see pretty bloody far...... i'd say that was one of the things that stops them bumping into stuff.... plus Surfer has memorised every star system he's ever seen.... and i wouldn't put it past Galactus to have shoved some navigational info into their heads along with the enhancements...... there is also the argument that objects travelling at warp speeds exist outside the physical universe.... did you see that episode of Stargate where they use the engines of a ship to make an asteroid move out of normal space and pass through the earth without harming it?..... as for the fighting at "warp speed".... this is bull..... i have never seen any evidence of any herald moving at tremendous speeds other than their flight speed..... even the Thing got some hits in on the Surfer

Originally posted by K Von Doom
I believe you'll agree that Loki and Enchantress have both, at one time or another, influenced, clouded or controlled Thor's mind. Of course, in the end, being the hero Thor would break free. But that's after a while - but this fight will last about two minutes at the longest.

they may have influenced Thor.. but i've never seen them control Thor.... and they always planned issues in advance... they never managed it within the space of a few minutes... or even a second... which is how long this fight will last if MTM is wasting time on trying to control minds

Originally posted by K Von Doom
While Q-bands can neglect mystical shields, Quasar can still be bound by mystical means so the crimson bands aren't out of the question.

bound.... perhaps..... but only as long as it takes to cut/blast through any magical construct.... such as the crimson bands..... so that might last you about 0.2 of a second...... if you can catch me first that is
Originally posted by K Von Doom
The real Morgred will be in the middle of the battlefield once the fight begins


how do you get to start in the middle?... don't we start at opposite ends...?
Originally posted by K Von Doom
He's surrounded by numerous duplicates which he created during prep time. In addition, these duplicates are protected by magical and cosmic shields

my quantum enhanced Mjolnir blasts will cut though them like wet pasta.... as you obviously can't give multiple duplicates full strength shields... each one you create uses a little power.... now you create shields for everyone.... major power drain
Originally posted by K Von Doom
Morgred is intangible

which still isn't invulnerable from every energy attack i have at my disposal...... you can only hide like that for so long before it becomes a liability
Originally posted by K Von Doom
Thordon starts hammering through the shields looking for the real Morgred

actually he just blasts though them all while zeroing in on the source of the energy
Originally posted by K Von Doom
A constant stream of telepathic blasts attack Thordon's mind, rendering him incapable of creating effective Q-constructs on the fly (see Q-bands limitations)

at the moment he's not indulged in complex thought.... just constant blasting which only requires him to aim... or swing wildly with the hammer depending on the number of duplicates
Originally posted by K Von Doom
Dozens of earth pillars shoot up from the ground forcing Thordon to split his time between hammering shields and dodging the pillars

split time at Flash speeds is barely worth mentioning
Originally posted by K Von Doom
Mystical fire engulfs Thordon as he's flying around, taking away any Quantum armor he might be wearing and any strength enhancements that gave him, leaving him with regular Thor strength

you have to hit me first... which will be very tricky at best... plus i can absorb the fire into Mjolnir and use it's energy to further amplify my blasts
Originally posted by K Von Doom
While Thordon is busy dodging pillars and attempting to break shields, all the duplicate Morgreds throw their axes at him, and Thordon, not knowing that they're merely illusions, evades them, putting him more on the defensive

nah.... i've already destroyed all the duplicates by now
Originally posted by K Von Doom
Then Morgred casts a mystical mind-clouding spell that convinces Thordon that the real Morgred is right in front of him... Thordon throws Mjolnir towards his foe, convinced that it'll break through any shield, which it won't but that doesn't matter

Quasar's mind aint chucking hammers as his first attack..... it'd more likely be 100 quantum spears .... which will only distract for a fraction of a second
Originally posted by K Von Doom
As Thordon releases Mjolnir, the crimson bands of cytorrak grab hold of his arms, holding them in place, a giant earth formation grabs hold of the rest of him... then the real Morgred teleports behind Thordon. He plunges his arm right into Thordon's back and rips out his spine... ending the fight (just as he did with the Demogorge)

well as mjolnir hasn't been released... and i'm in constant motion (have to keep moving at top speed with all these duplicates flying around) then your chances of catching me in any trap are extremely remote

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

how about .... during Thordon's insane looking blasting of everything that looks remotely like MTM he hits the real one... the combination of electromagnetic and mystical energies even hurts his intangible form... forcing him to become tangible to bulk up his physical resilience with cosmic energy..... or at least he hopes to... as soon as he's corporeal Thordon hurls hundreds of spears backed up with even more insane blasting (Earthworm Jim style..... hahahahahahahha) which knock MTM all over the place, discombobulating him.... leaving him stunned and open for a few hundred hammer strikes to the head and chest region.... which turns "Morgred the Martian" into "Morgred the dead guy that resembles jam"
hmmmm.... that's a much catchier name

Originally posted by K Von Doom
From Quasar's website that Scoob provided... a quantum construct will pass right through a magic shield, just like a mystical blast cuts through a quantum shield... as though they weren't even there. So, for instance, if Dr Strange shoots some magical energy, Quasar won't be able to redirect it or block it with the Q-bands, all he can do is get out of the way. Similarly, if Quasar makes a quantum hammer to squash the Sorcerer Supreme, Dr Strange has to get out of the way or conjure an actual physical shield (like granite or steel), he can't block it via mystical energy (shield of the seraphim). Hope that clears things up.

i wondered about this myself.... more of energy blasts than constructs though...... i was thinking if quantum energy passes through magical constructs, and magical enrgy passes through quantum constructs.... then waht happens if quantum blasts hit magical blasts?...... i just figured they would sort of... stop each other.... or pass straight through each other....... magic is not good for logical thought....

Originally posted by DarkCrawler
YEAR ONE: BATMAN/SCARECROW #1 (OF 2):

Some guy: "Whoa, girl, this is the Bat! The Legend! An his homie, The Pidgeon!"

Robin: "Actually, it is Robin..."

Uh...posted this wrong thread. Sorry.

Originally posted by DarkCrawler
Uh...posted this wrong thread. Sorry.

thanks for quoting it so that it appeared twice in the wrong thread....

i take it it was for the funniest quote thread or something?

My vote has changed back and forth a few times....but just so I have mine in before the match ends...

I vote for Scoob.

I think Morgred's magical telepathy would slow Thordon down enough to make it a fight, but I just think that Scoob's amalgam is more powerful and tougher, even in a straight-up fight once Thordon has been slowed down some by the telepathy.

Certainly not beyond changing my vote if KVD re-changes my mind (great fight, both of you, by the way) but that's it for now.

-DM

hmm, this IS a good one. well done both.

not that i can vote, but i'd have to say kvd. as digi says above, the telepathy would slow FT down. it would only have to do so for a tiny amount of time. then mordred could get rid of the q-armor and morg could finish it, or he could encase him in the crimson bands. thor HAS been controlled many times in the past (purple man did it quite easily once, not to mention the enchantress, and he has fallen prey to many illusions)

just seems to me scoob has to struggle with ways to combat the telepathic edge - the only CLEAR edge either has in this. in a battle this close though, ANY edge has to be considered an advantage.

I'm putting my vote in for KVD. Strength-wise, they're even, since Morg is obviously high Herald level and MM can increase himself to near Superman strength. Speed isn't as different as some people think, since MM has shown to have some superspeed movement/reaction feats. For me it came down the the magic/telepathy. Two kinds of telepathy plus some damn good magical knowledge is just too much of an edge to ignore.

EDIT: Err, or I could just say ditto to what leonidas said, lol.

Ditto KVD. Damn, that's lot of info. Maybe my vote will change later I don't know. KVD gets my vote. Just barely, by a millimeter

loki had control of thor in that whole thing with the asgardian destroyer didnt he?

Originally posted by Scoobless
how about .... during Thordon's insane looking blasting of everything that looks remotely like MTM he hits the real one... the combination of electromagnetic and mystical energies even hurts his intangible form... forcing him to become tangible to bulk up his physical resilience with cosmic energy..... or at least he hopes to... as soon as he's corporeal Thordon hurls hundreds of spears backed up with even more insane blasting (Earthworm Jim style..... hahahahahahahha) which knock MTM all over the place, discombobulating him.... leaving him stunned and open for a few hundred hammer strikes to the head and chest region.... which turns "Morgred the Martian" into "Morgred the dead guy that resembles jam"
hmmmm.... that's a much catchier name



Well Scoob, I was just going by what it said on the website that you provided. It says Quasar has to concentrate to operate a pair of quantum scissors. I don't like it either but that's what it says.

My guy will be using telepathy to (a) constantly barrage FT with telepathic blasts which will most likely slow him down (b) ditto psionic blasts that the Q-bands can't defend against and (c) influence FT into believing the duplicate that he's facing is the real MTM... although controlling your mind (Quasar) is a viable option that's still open... again, see your website, magicians can control Wendell's mind. If you use the "Thor's brain" argument... everyone knows that he's been influenced numerous times by Loki, Enchantress...

You're going to cut or blast your way free of the crimson bands in 0.2 seconds? How are you going to do that when your arms are pulled apart and have no leverage? And oh... I'll catch you... I know you'll be running away... Heh. As mentioned by Khellendros, Martian Manhunter also has superspeed, not equal to the Flash, but still fast nonetheless. I didn't want to say it as I believe Morg's speed and reaction will be sufficient in this battle, but anyway, now that it's out there... your speed advantage isn't that great.

I actually meant that I'll be starting somewhere in the middle of my half of the battlefield, not that it makes any difference as I'll be teleporting around.

Actually my duplicates will have an outer magical shield and an inner cosmic shield. A quantum blast will bypass the outer shield and be stopped by the cosmic one. Now, if the quantum bands drain the cosmic shield, what then? They can't detect whether the Morgred inside the shield is real or not because it's magically created. A blast from Mjolnir will be stopped by the outer magical shield. Of course, neither shield will hold up for very long against a sustained attack. However, if by chance, you stumble on the real one and start pummeling the shields, Morgred will have teleported elsewhere and replaced himself with a simulacrum by the time you're done. And again, that's if you're not hit by the numerous granite pillars shooting up from the ground. And absorbing magical and cosmic shields doesn't happen at light speed. You can fly around at that speed all you'd like but then you're still slowed down to how fast the Q-bands and Mjolnir are able to absorb said energies.

Chucking 100 or 1000 quantum spears will pass right through the real Morgred and duplicates. Actually it will be quite easy to funnel you into a trap... it'll end the fight quicker but by having just four or five duplicates with highly concentrated cosmic and mystic shields which will be tougher to get through. All of them close to each other. Granite pillars shooting up at a higher frequency forcing you to evade rather than smash through them, and gale force winds forcing you into a certain direction (of course, you wouldn't know you're being forced into a certain direction as you'd be flying away from the pillars anyway). While trying to smash or absorb away at any of the duplicates, the crimson bands will be conjured to bind your legs and at the same instant a giant earth hand reaches up to grab your legs yet again while covering the crimson bands in the process, protecting them from being negated by Mjolnir. Regular fire would engulf you, not magical fire that can be absorbed - all the while being psionically and telepathically attacked. Morgred would teleport behind you, severing the hand that holds your hammer. Another crimson band would bind your lone operating arm. Bound, burnt and reeling in pain... your character is granted release via an axe to the back.

Planned attack > Insane hammer throwing

Originally posted by Scoobless
i wondered about this myself.... more of energy blasts than constructs though...... i was thinking if quantum energy passes through magical constructs, and magical enrgy passes through quantum constructs.... then waht happens if quantum blasts hit magical blasts?...... i just figured they would sort of... stop each other.... or pass straight through each other....... magic is not good for logical thought....

From your website yet again...

"Fortunately, magicians have no control over the energies he manipulates so he should be able to slam an energy construct through a mystical shield of Seraphim, for instance."

SHOULD be able to slam an energy construct

Originally posted by K Von Doom
My guy will be using telepathy to (a) constantly barrage FT with telepathic blasts which will most likely slow him down (b) ditto psionic blasts that the Q-bands can't defend against and (c) influence FT into believing the duplicate that he's facing is the real MTM... although controlling your mind (Quasar) is a viable option that's still open... again, see your website, magicians can control Wendell's mind. If you use the "Thor's brain" argument... everyone knows that he's been influenced numerous times by Loki, Enchantress...

influenced isn't the same as controlled..... Enchantress may have persuaded him to do stuff but she never commanded him like a puppet and Loki's tried to kill him loads of times.... if he could just take over his mind then he wouldn't have any problem
Originally posted by K Von Doom
You're going to cut or blast your way free of the crimson bands in 0.2 seconds? How are you going to do that when your arms are pulled apart and have no leverage? And oh... I'll catch you... I know you'll be running away... Heh. As mentioned by Khellendros, Martian Manhunter also has superspeed, not equal to the Flash, but still fast nonetheless. I didn't want to say it as I believe Morg's speed and reaction will be sufficient in this battle, but anyway, now that it's out there... your speed advantage isn't that great.

Quasar can mentally control the items he creates.... he doesn't need his arms to move a sword construct to cut a magical bond
FT's speed advantage in flight is that great he has interplanetary flight speed coupled with Flash reaction times plus the quantum bands warn of danger coming thordon's way.... this far surpasses either Morg or MM .... you wont be able to catch him
Originally posted by K Von Doom
Actually my duplicates will have an outer magical shield and an inner cosmic shield. A quantum blast will bypass the outer shield and be stopped by the cosmic one. Now, if the quantum bands drain the cosmic shield, what then? They can't detect whether the Morgred inside the shield is real or not because it's magically created. A blast from Mjolnir will be stopped by the outer magical shield. Of course, neither shield will hold up for very long against a sustained attack. However, if by chance, you stumble on the real one and start pummeling the shields, Morgred will have teleported elsewhere and replaced himself with a simulacrum by the time you're done. And again, that's if you're not hit by the numerous granite pillars shooting up from the ground. And absorbing magical and cosmic shields doesn't happen at light speed. You can fly around at that speed all you'd like but then you're still slowed down to how fast the Q-bands and Mjolnir are able to absorb said energies.

i'm not firing separate blasts, i'm focusing the quantum bands power into Mjolnir and adding it to the mystical energies fired..... that plus any energy you fire can be absorbed through Mjolnir to add even more power to these blasts..... you're splitting up your power between duplicates... i'm concentrating and increasing my power into blasts.... these enhanced blasts will destroy any weak variants of your shields in an instant.... this is all while simultaneously drawing off your power cosmic whenever it is detected and add that to my own energies
Granite pillars won't penetrate quantum shields... or hurt Thor's body
the more time you spend on your confusion tactics the more of your own energy you use up...... my blasts have an infinite supply of energy, your magic does not... you will constantly weaken while i can draw in power from any source around to continually up my power output
Originally posted by K Von Doom
Chucking 100 or 1000 quantum spears will pass right through the real Morgred and duplicates. Actually it will be quite easy to funnel you into a trap... it'll end the fight quicker but by having just four or five duplicates with highly concentrated cosmic and mystic shields which will be tougher to get through. All of them close to each other.

good.... much easier target..... i continue with the blasting while also calling down full power mystical lightning bolts to hammer away at your shields from above... less target's = more time to concentrate firepower
Originally posted by K Von Doom
Granite pillars shooting up at a higher frequency forcing you to evade rather than smash through them, and gale force winds forcing you into a certain direction

wind is not going to force FT anywhere... and the granite pillars still wont get through my shields... or hurt me if they do (which they wont )
Originally posted by K Von Doom
Regular fire would engulf you, not magical fire that can be absorbed

regular fire can be absorbed by Thor...... but i don't know why you'd use it as he's invulnerable to something so timid anyway

by this point your character is feeling the strain of over using his magic and being under constant assault... you weaken and so do your shields.... with the magical aspect of your power failing your duplicates begin to fade and i can concentrate all my power and lightning on a solitary target...... under this level of attack you fall quickly and i drain all of your remaining power...... then quantum create myself up a revolver and pistol whip you unconscious



Originally posted by K Von Doom
Planned attack > Insane hammer throwing

i said insane looking hammer swinging... not actual insane throwing..... don't you think it would look a little crazy if you saw a big blonde guy flying around with a large hammer that has highly destructive energy coming out of it swinging it around and blowing the crap out of everything in sight?

Originally posted by K Von Doom
Well Scoob, I was just going by what it said on the website that you provided. It says Quasar has to concentrate to operate a pair of quantum scissors. I don't like it either but that's what it says.

i just looked over that site.... it's a couple of years out of date (didn't realise) i'll try to find another one

A strong enough shield powered by TK or what not would keep Quaz's energy from passing through.

And even if it was magic based totally, it'd still not surely it'd work.

Originally posted by long pig
A strong enough shield powered by TK or what not would keep Quaz's energy from passing through.

And even if it was magic based totally, it'd still not surely it'd work.

it's quantum energy + mystical energy + absorbed ambient energy + absorbed energy from any assault on Thordon... in addition to mystical lightning strikes against a shield at reduced power due to muliple duplicates..... it's going through it without much trouble

guess what i just remembered......

"Certain powers are banned......

2. Telepathic mind shutdowns (IE., Jean Grey causing a foe to think themselves into death, or simply pass out).......

11. Mind control (IE., Emma Frost taking over a foe's mind and using him to fight his own team, kill himself, etc.)"

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=337503&highlight=evangel

the tournament rules....... i knew there was a reason i didn't choose a strong telepath as one of my picks....... no controlling of my mind for you KVD

id just like to ask anyone who voted because of the whole "magic can control Quasar's mind" thing to take another look over the battle

All seems prettyiffy.

Originally posted by CorderaMitchell
All seems prettyiffy.

what do you mean?

<<the tournament rules....... i knew there was a reason i didn't choose a strong telepath as one of my picks....... no controlling of my mind for you KVD>>

hmm, that would likely change my mind. this is still very close though.

You can't take over someone's mind, but you can still telepathically mess it up. There's a big difference. So KVD's magical telepathy could still be running interference to slow Scoob's character down...just as long as the 'take over the mind' argument isn't used, it's within the rules and is legal.

-DM

P.S. I realize that argument kinda goes against Scoob and my vote is for him...you can see it's a close battle any way you cut it.

Originally posted by DigiMark007
You can't take over someone's mind, but you can still telepathically mess it up. There's a big difference. So KVD's magical telepathy could still be running interference to slow Scoob's character down...just as long as the 'take over the mind' argument isn't used, it's within the rules and is legal.

-DM

P.S. I realize that argument kinda goes against Scoob and my vote is for him...you can see it's a close battle any way you cut it.

yeah.... i was just emphasising that the magic control thing is a non-factor

as for closeness....... with KVD expending enough concentration and power to create duplicates that'll last more than half a second, while mentally animating them to seem realistic enough to be a valid distraction AND animating the ground/granite, creating flames and also attempting psi-blasts.... his concentration and power is spread far too thinly to accomplish any of these tasks with any degree of success... FT's focused barrage will destroy each of these duplicates on contact while his continual motion will make it extremely unlikely that Thordon would be struck by any assault of MTM

right now my vote goes to scoob

When people said MM can increase his speed and strength to Superman levels, doesn't that basically destroy him in a matter of minutes? I would think Morgred could last a while longer, but with all his shields and duplicates going, plus the draining from enhancing his strength and such would probly wear him down pretty quickly...

I'd vote Scoobless if I could... Mr. Thordon just has the raw power edge, and I really don't think distracting him with telepathy would slow him down enough for an easy takedown. Quasar has to have a crazy amount of focus as it is, and now he's working at Flash speeds. I think he'd be able to dodge better than Morgred would, which seems to be the only option for either, because of the magic/quantam energy thing. Oh, and Flash Thordon, Saviour of the Universe, has his own theme song.

Originally posted by Dizzle
When people said MM can increase his speed and strength to Superman levels, doesn't that basically destroy him in a matter of minutes? I would think Morgred could last a while longer, but with all his shields and duplicates going, plus the draining from enhancing his strength and such would probly wear him down pretty quickly...


KVD has Morg's body, not MM's. So no, he isn't using that particular power much.

Also, I think it's 3-3 right now in the voting.

-DM

I was assuming that even though its a bodily function, Morgred would still be able to use the strength enhancing if he wanted to. But I think KVD was arguing MM's speed and strength enhancing as a way to outclass FT physically, so I was asking how long he would be able to do that for without making it a suicide move...

Originally posted by Scoobless
guess what i just remembered......

"Certain powers are banned......

2. Telepathic mind shutdowns (IE., Jean Grey causing a foe to think themselves into death, or simply pass out).......

11. Mind control (IE., Emma Frost taking over a foe's mind and using him to fight his own team, kill himself, etc.)"

the tournament rules....... i knew there was a reason i didn't choose a strong telepath as one of my picks....... no controlling of my mind for you KVD

id just like to ask anyone who voted because of the whole "magic can control Quasar's mind" thing to take another look over the battle

Peruse my battle plan again Scoob, MTM is using telepathic attacks, not controlling FT's mind.

Originally posted by K Von Doom
Peruse my battle plan again Scoob, MTM is using telepathic attacks, not controlling FT's mind.

i know.... but control was mentioned at some points and i felt it was worth mentioning

Originally posted by Scoobless
i know.... but control was mentioned at some points and i felt it was worth mentioning

I did mention it but I won't be using it, only emphasising Q's and Thor's vulnerability to mental/psychic/telepathic attacks... no disqualification win for you Scoob

Originally posted by K Von Doom
I did mention it but I won't be using it, only emphasising Q's and Thor's vulnerability to mental/psychic/telepathic attacks... no disqualification win for you Scoob

i wouldn't dream of it ........ you did check out the last post on the previous page though...... didn't you?



oh... and Q isn't vulnerable to telepathic attacks anymore than Prof X or MM

He can confuse your mind, easily.
I don't buy the whole "its thors body, so his brain is as protected as his mind" when reffering to having Quazars mind.

both are even, just see it going KVD's way.

Could Quazar even lift mjolnir??? I doubt it.
It has nothing to do with the body, but the mind, and Quazar isn't very pure of heart.

Originally posted by Scoobless
influenced isn't the same as controlled..... Enchantress may have persuaded him to do stuff but she never commanded him like a puppet and Loki's tried to kill him loads of times.... if he could just take over his mind then he wouldn't have any problem

Quasar can mentally control the items he creates.... he doesn't need his arms to move a sword construct to cut a magical bond

FT's speed advantage in flight is that great he has interplanetary flight speed coupled with Flash reaction times plus the quantum bands warn of danger coming thordon's way.... this far surpasses either Morg or MM .... you wont be able to catch him

i'm not firing separate blasts, i'm focusing the quantum bands power into Mjolnir and adding it to the mystical energies fired..... that plus any energy you fire can be absorbed through Mjolnir to add even more power to these blasts..... you're splitting up your power between duplicates... i'm concentrating and increasing my power into blasts.... these enhanced blasts will destroy any weak variants of your shields in an instant.... this is all while simultaneously drawing off your power cosmic whenever it is detected and add that to my own energies
Granite pillars won't penetrate quantum shields... or hurt Thor's body
the more time you spend on your confusion tactics the more of your own energy you use up...... my blasts have an infinite supply of energy, your magic does not... you will constantly weaken while i can draw in power from any source around to continually up my power output

good.... much easier target..... i continue with the blasting while also calling down full power mystical lightning bolts to hammer away at your shields from above... less target's = more time to concentrate firepower

wind is not going to force FT anywhere... and the granite pillars still wont get through my shields... or hurt me if they do (which they wont )

regular fire can be absorbed by Thor...... but i don't know why you'd use it as he's invulnerable to something so timid anyway

by this point your character is feeling the strain of over using his magic and being under constant assault... you weaken and so do your shields.... with the magical aspect of your power failing your duplicates begin to fade and i can concentrate all my power and lightning on a solitary target...... under this level of attack you fall quickly and i drain all of your remaining power...... then quantum create myself up a revolver and pistol whip you unconscious


Nevertheless, Scoob, Quasar is vulnerable to magic-based telepathy as well as psionics, so seeing as you'll be using Quasar's mind. That's a big disadvantage to you. Again, influencing, not controlling. And for all intents and purposes, actual magical duplicates wouldn't even be needed... MTM would only need to convince you telepathically that there are ten MTM's right in front of you and you'd be swinging and blasting away at nothing.

As stated on your website, anything that Quasar isn't holding directly would have to be mentally controlled, and Quasar HAS to concentrate to operate a pair of scissors.

FT's speed advantage in flight is smaller than his speed advantage on foot speed. Morg has warp level flight speed, to go with reaction time. The Q bands warn Quasar of incoming energy... if he can detect it, but he can't detect magic.

It's not really going to matter if you mix quantum energy with the hammer's magic energy because your magic energy will be blocked by my mystic shields and the quantum energy by my cosmic shields... the two energies will be split up anyway.

The granite pillars shooting from the ground aren't for "breaking through" quantum shields, they're to knock you around if you don't evade them. Or you can smash through them if you'd like... if they're not just a figment of your imagination... and the ones that you choose to believe are just illusions are real.

Yep, you can concentrate your power on the duplicates, that's I was hoping you'd do... While trying to smash or absorb away at any of the duplicates, the crimson bands will be conjured to bind your legs and at the same instant a giant earth hand reaches up to grab your legs yet again while covering the crimson bands in the process, protecting them from being negated by Mjolnir. All the while being telepathically and psionically attacked - as you're smashing away at figments of your imagination. Morgred would teleport behind you, cleaving the hand that holds your hammer (Star Wars style). Another crimson band would bind your lone operating arm. Bound, burnt and reeling in pain... your character is granted release via an axe to the back.

And how will you be concentrating all your efforts on a single target when I'll be teleporting all over the battlefield? The moment I see you closing in, I'm off to the other side of the battlefield... conjuring away, shooting cosmic blasts and having you telepathically convinced that the rock that you're smashing is the real MTM.

Originally posted by Scoobless
i wouldn't dream of it ........ you did check out the last post on the previous page though...... didn't you?

oh... and Q isn't vulnerable to telepathic attacks anymore than Prof X or MM

Telepathic attacks that are magic based Hehe. We'll let the others decide.

Originally posted by long pig
He can confuse your mind, easily.
I don't buy the whole "its thors body, so his brain is as protected as his mind" when reffering to having Quazars mind.

both are even, just see it going KVD's way.

Could Quazar even lift mjolnir??? I doubt it.
It has nothing to do with the body, but the mind, and Quazar isn't very pure of heart.

well i see any meta-human ability a character possesses as being part of their "power"..... so when i chose the characters i assumed that meant all their abilities (meaning Thor's resilience to mental assault)

and the purity thing has been discussed..... Superman lifted it, Thor-El + Thorion lifted it (neither of those were Thor, but an amalgam) Thor is still a part of Thordon... so i don't see a problem with it

confusion may still be possible but when he's got his attention focused in so many different directions it would be extremely difficult (if not impossible) for him to confuse FT before he makes 5-10 moves while working with Flash reaction times...... with the mental and magical energies spent in the creation, animation and shielding of his duplicates i don't see him having any time for an effective psi-attack against a lightspeed assault

Originally posted by Scoobless
yeah.... i was just emphasising that the magic control thing is a non-factor

as for closeness....... with KVD expending enough concentration and power to create duplicates that'll last more than half a second, while mentally animating them to seem realistic enough to be a valid distraction AND animating the ground/granite, creating flames and also attempting psi-blasts.... his concentration and power is spread far too thinly to accomplish any of these tasks with any degree of success... FT's focused barrage will destroy each of these duplicates on contact while his continual motion will make it extremely unlikely that Thordon would be struck by any assault of MTM

The magic control thing is a major factor.

The duplicates will be created before the battle... and I can easily telepathhically convince you that they're real... and I wouldn't even have to make actual duplicates - mentally influence you that there are a hundred MTM's around. Should'a picked a better telepathically-defended character Scoob Morgred regularly uses his magic, coupled with his elemental powers while telepathically talking to someone so multitasking is second nature to him. Spread too thin? If the power is there, it's used at its full potential.

Originally posted by Scoobless
well i see any meta-human ability a character possesses as being part of their "power"..... so when i chose the characters i assumed that meant all their abilities (meaning Thor's resilience to mental assault)

and the purity thing has been discussed..... Superman lifted it, Thor-El + Thorion lifted it (neither of those were Thor, but an amalgam) Thor is still a part of Thordon... so i don't see a problem with it

confusion may still be possible but when he's got his attention focused in so many different directions it would be extremely difficult (if not impossible) for him to confuse FT before he makes 5-10 moves while working with Flash reaction times...... with the mental and magical energies spent in the creation, animation and shielding of his duplicates i don't see him having any time for an effective psi-attack against a lightspeed assault

Resilience. Not immunity. But it's already been discussed that Thor's susceptible to magical influence and confusion. But it seems to be a non-issue seeing as it's Quasar's mind. I'm not attacking your brain, I'm attacking your mind.

Actually, Superman didn't lift it. Thor threw it at him, Superman caught it and used its momentum to smash open a door. When Juggernaut caught a ride on Mjolnir as it flew back to Thor, you wouldn't say Juggernaut lifted it. I did bring up the worthiness issue... and seeing as "worthiness" is a way-of-thinking, not really associated with the body, Quasar wouldn't be able to. Young Thor couldn't lift Mjolnir when he started out and that was the REAL Thor... his mind needed maturing, experience, honour... etc.

A lightspeed assault that has been convinced into thinking a mountain is his the real MTM. I don't think my guy will be shaking in his boots while watching such a spectacle.

Originally posted by K Von Doom
It's not really going to matter if you mix quantum energy with the hammer's magic energy because your magic energy will be blocked by my mystic shields and the quantum energy by my cosmic shields... the two energies will be split up anyway.

regardless... they are fired simultaneously along with the lightning strikes(both natural and mystical) if your magic shield is the outer then the mystical blasts will still damage it and the quantum blasts will decimate it, if your cosmic shield is the outer it will be affected by both assaults.... and whichever is outer will be drained through either the hammer the bands or both... constant draining = constant amplification of my own power

Originally posted by K Von Doom
The granite pillars shooting from the ground aren't for "breaking through" quantum shields, they're to knock you around if you don't evade them. Or you can smash through them if you'd like... if they're not just a figment of your imagination... and the ones that you choose to believe are just illusions are real.

dodge, block, smash through, fly above..... either way it's still further using up of your limited magical energies... especially if you're attempting multiple power usage (illusions, granite, shields, duplicates, wind)
Originally posted by K Von Doom
Yep, you can concentrate your power on the duplicates, that's I was hoping you'd do... While trying to smash or absorb away at any of the duplicates, the crimson bands will be conjured

bands that will be extremely difficult to apply to an opponent you can barely see moving.... and that's only if i don't detect the source of the cosmic energies (which is unlikely) or score a lucky hit on the real MTM ... which isn't all that unlikely considering the speed and range of the attacks being used...(lightning can be summoned to strike every target at once).... and even IF you got close to getting the C-bands applied.... it would all be moving in such slow motion to an evasive FT that he'd absorb all that extra energy into Mjolnir before they are even fully formed..... which further boosts my power

Originally posted by K Von Doom
And how will you be concentrating all your efforts on a single target when I'll be teleporting all over the battlefield? The moment I see you closing in,

the moment you see me i'll have already attacked with all the power blasts and lightning at my disposal.... anyway you cut it FT's speed earns him the first move

Quasar can also teleport to avoid things, he wouldn't normally use this within a planetary environment due to the damage it could cause to the ecosystem... but when he's fighting for EVERYTHING .... he's not going to hold back and let the universe be destroyed on the possibility that teleporting may or may not damage one planet

>>>>>>>>>>>><<<<<<<<<<<<<

i notice that i keep shifting between reffering to my character with the terms I, my, FT, he, Thordon .... anyone else find they mess these up during tournament debates?

Originally posted by K Von Doom
A lightspeed assault that has been convinced into thinking a mountain is his the real MTM. I don't think my guy will be shaking in his boots while watching such a spectacle.

well as their is no influencing prior to the start of the match theirs no way your characters mind will be working as fast as FT's is.... so the initial strike will be mine (his)

The bands can chase you down or just appear around you, and be set to catch the nearest person.
Doesn't need to know where you are, he just needs to know you are there.

I called my guy "me" a million times, and it's kinda ......odd.

BTW, are ring outs against the rules???

Originally posted by Scoobless
well as their is no influencing prior to the start of the match theirs no way your characters mind will be working as fast as FT's is.... so the initial strike will be mine (his)

Initial strike doesn't matter if it's on a duplicate or a shield or an imaginary object

Originally posted by Scoobless
i think you may be limited to psi-blasts rather than projecting images into another's mind

until i see a scan of Quasar failing to lift Mjolnir there is no way you can say for definite that he's unworthy



and even if i see that scan ... well he's still an amalgam ... and all the previous Thor amalgams have been fine with the hammer

Again, I'm not controlling your mind... psi blasts and clouding it enough for you to think a mountain range is the actual enemy. Like when you see some crazy guy screaming at a tree... no ones' controlling him, his mind is just not 100%... same as your guy when MTM is through with him.

Well... until I see a scan of Quasar lifting the hammer there's no way to say that he's worthy. Heh. But if Mjolnir is essential to your plans, you can have the hammer.

Originally posted by K Von Doom
Initial strike doesn't matter if it's on a duplicate or a shield or an imaginary object

it does if he sweeps over every target with full power blasts and hits them all with intense mystical lightning simultaneously... only need to tag you once to shock you long enough to tell which is the real one

>>>>>>>><<<<<<<<<<

the time difference factor is kicking in again...... sleep1

Originally posted by K Von Doom
Well... until I see a scan of Quasar lifting the hammer there's no way to say that he's worthy. Heh.

if i had a scanner i'd draw you a quick sketch of it...... or better yet.... here's Thordon holding the hammer

Originally posted by Scoobless
it does if he sweeps over every target with full power blasts and hits them all with intense mystical lightning simultaneously... only need to tag you once to shock you long enough to tell which is the real one

>>>>>>>><<<<<<<<<<

the time difference factor is kicking in again.....

Well, you said yourself, all heralds have highly enhanced vision so before FT gets even close to my guy.... teleport to another area.

.... excellent....

Originally posted by long pig
The bands can chase you down or just appear around you, and be set to catch the nearest person.
Doesn't need to know where you are, he just needs to know you are there.

I called my guy "me" a million times, and it's kinda ......odd.

BTW, are ring outs against the rules???

Thanks With regards to ring out, I don't think the participants can leave the battlefield... like running or teleporting to the moon for recovery time - not allowed.

Hell yeah, argue!!!!

Finally, and good job on BOTH sides so far!!

Originally posted by K Von Doom
Well, you said yourself, all heralds have highly enhanced vision so before FT gets even close to my guy.... teleport to another area.

.... excellent....

doesn't stop ME from summoning lightning to YOU before YOU can teleport/move

lol

ok, i'm hitting the sack..... i'll foil the rest of your evil plots tomorrow

Originally posted by Scoobless
regardless... they are fired simultaneously along with the lightning strikes(both natural and mystical) if your magic shield is the outer then the mystical blasts will still damage it and the quantum blasts will decimate it, if your cosmic shield is the outer it will be affected by both assaults.... and whichever is outer will be drained through either the hammer the bands or both... constant draining = constant amplification of my own power

dodge, block, smash through, fly above..... either way it's still further using up of your limited magical energies... especially if you're attempting multiple power usage (illusions, granite, shields, duplicates, wind)

bands that will be extremely difficult to apply to an opponent you can barely see moving.... and that's only if i don't detect the source of the cosmic energies (which is unlikely) or score a lucky hit on the real MTM ... which isn't all that unlikely considering the speed and range of the attacks being used...(lightning can be summoned to strike every target at once).... and even IF you got close to getting the C-bands applied.... it would all be moving in such slow motion to an evasive FT that he'd absorb all that extra energy into Mjolnir before they are even fully formed..... which further boosts my power

Quasar can also teleport to avoid things, he wouldn't normally use this within a planetary environment due to the damage it could cause to the ecosystem... but when he's fighting for EVERYTHING .... he's not going to hold back and let the universe be destroyed on the possibility that teleporting may or may not damage one planet


Quasar's teleporting is different... he's going from our dimension to the Quantum Zone then appearing at his desired location... like entering a tunnel between two places... going into the Q-Zone would be considered a "ring out". You can use it if you'd like because I don't see the point, but we'll let Evangel rule on it.

Actually it's the other way around, the magic shields are outer, which will block Mjolnir's blasts and lightning, letting your Q-blasts through but blocked by the cosmic shield. And draining magical and cosmic energy doesn't happen at lightspeed, so the more you drain, the more susceptible you are to telepathic and physical attacks.

Longpig already countered your point about the Crimson Bands.

Limited magical energies? Mordred's limits have not been shown but they are considerable... the Darkhold and magical knowledge given to him by Chthon... so running out of magic is the least of MTM's concerns.

Originally posted by Scoobless
doesn't stop ME from summoning lightning to YOU before YOU can teleport/move


Nope it doesn't stop you from doing that, but which of the duplicates will you be aiming at? And each has cosmic/mystic shields remember, so no way that lightning, regular or otherwise, is getting through that.

Originally posted by Dizzle
I was assuming that even though its a bodily function, Morgred would still be able to use the strength enhancing if he wanted to. But I think KVD was arguing MM's speed and strength enhancing as a way to outclass FT physically, so I was asking how long he would be able to do that for without making it a suicide move...

Just read back a couple of pages, and thought I'd answer this one: Morgred could use Martian Manhunter's ability to increase his strength to Superman-level but doing that places a strain on his molecules so I won't be going down that road. Because, similarly, Morgred can increase his strength using the power cosmic to higher strength levels. Martian Manhunter's speed will still be in effect though, if Morg's speed is in doubt.

Ok, 3 things. 1st, can't Thor teleport too, which would kinda screw the whole ring out idea?

2nd For his first strike, I'm pretty sure FT could call lightning on all of the MtM's present, Thor has great weather control and he's operating at light speed here.

3rd How fast is MM exactly? Never saw him as a true speedster...

Originally posted by Dizzle
Ok, 3 things. 1st, can't Thor teleport too, which would kinda screw the whole ring out idea?

2nd For his first strike, I'm pretty sure FT could call lightning on all of the MtM's present, Thor has great weather control and he's operating at light speed here.

3rd How fast is MM exactly? Never saw him as a true speedster...

1. Thor can use his hammer to create a portal to different dimensions. I'm saying Quasar's form of teleportation would be considered a "Ring out" because he's travelling to another dimension - the Q-Zone.

2. Yes he can but lightning would do little to my shields so it'd be a wasted effort. And again, which of the duplicates is he aiming at?

3. In terms of speed, MM is comparable to Superman.

I was saying he could target all of em at once. And Supes is nowhere near as fast as Wally...

Okay, if somehow he could target them all at once, it'd still be a pointless power display as lightning will do little to my shields. And nope, Superman isn't as fast as the Flash.

Originally posted by Scoobless
it does if he sweeps over every target with full power blasts and hits them all with intense mystical lightning simultaneously... only need to tag you once to shock you long enough to tell which is the real one

Last counter for the point above before I leave for the day...

A duplicate that you just hammered started acting like it was in pain, so in your discombobulated, mentally-weakened, telepathically-confused state of mind you'll start concentrating your attacks on that duplicate, which will have enhanced shielding, thinking it was the actual MTM... which leaves you open to my hand-cleaving, spine-ripping attack from the back... as stated earlier.

I get a bit nervous when I log on in the morning and see there have been 20 additional posts on this thread since the day before so I'll summarize the debate today from my point of view...

- At the start of the battle, I've created duplicates shielded by cosmic and mystic energies. Scoob says he'll attack these with lightning but that'll do little to my shields. Additionally, I create one more animated simulacrum with much heavier shielding than the others. Meanwhile, Morgred is teleporting around the battlefield - invisible and sufficiently shielded of course.

- When the battle begins, I quickly home in on FT using both Martian Manhunter's telepathy and Mordred's magical telepathy. FT has nothing to counter these two powers... Quasar's mind is susceptible to magical telepathy, AND his Q-bands can't protect him from psionics. The constant mental attacks causes him intense pain (which will sap his strength and speed), confusion (where he won't know what to attack and whether something is real or not) and lack of concentration (which will cause his attacks to be sloppy and less-effective). This will be like a Professor X mind-assault on a regular person.

- Additionally I'll be able to cloud your mind quite easily, where you won't know what you'll be hitting - trick you into thinking there are ten MTM's right in front of you, the real MTM is lying dead on the ground as I sneak up behind you, that I have my axe to Kayla's throat giving Wendell pause... any number of mind-tricks can be put to play.

- The crimson bands will be conjured right away to bind FT, slow down to absorb them (if you can do that) and FT will leave himself open to other numerous magical, elemental, cosmic attacks or a flying axe. And chances are he won't be able to absorb them properly anyway, he's confused by the TP attacks. And in the off chance that he does absorb them, I conjure another set.

- I'll have granite spikes (now, not pillars!) shooting up from the earth, serving as additional distraction. I'll have hardened ice shooting down from the sky also serving as a distraction. Neither of these will cause you much harm but they'll serve to confuse you more, and maybe with your speed and concentration being sapped by my telepathic attacks - a couple of lucky hits to bump you around. The good thing is, once this spell is going, Morgred doesn't have to think about it so it's no drain on him.

- The duplicates will be placed in such a way that it'll funnel you right to the place where I want you - which is where my prime-duplicate is. While you're hammering there at reduced strength and speed, thinking it's the real MTM, the crimson bands will grab hold of you, my earth-elemental powers will bind you down, an axe lops off your hand and Mjolnir... and so on.

- The speed differential between out characters isn't that great. You have Flash while I have the Manhunter and Morg to counter with. Admittedly, you have an edge in speed however my character is fast enough to keep up... PLUS my character isn't getting any slower, while yours will be slowing down the moment the fight begins.

- There's no strength differential between us as the power cosmic will equal all the enhancements that you can put on Thor. But this isn't much of an issue as I won't be fighting you hand to hand.

Take that Scoob!

Are you positive your guy can cast the Bands?
Not just anyone can do so, Doom tried, and Strange told him he cast them wrong, then proceeded to undo the spell.

I can't really remember anyone other than DS DD and Cytt' casting them.

Originally posted by K Von Doom
Actually it's the other way around, the magic shields are outer, which will block Mjolnir's blasts and lightning, letting your Q-blasts through but blocked by the cosmic shield. And draining magical and cosmic energy doesn't happen at lightspeed, so the more you drain, the more susceptible you are to telepathic and physical attacks.

just because shields are magic based doesn't mean they will be an effective defence against Mjolnir..... in fact if they get absorbed there's a very good chance that the link from your shields to your magic reserves will cause Mjolnir to begin absorbing all your magical power... while it may not happen instantly it should prove very uncomfortable to you making your other plans sloppy or nullified
Originally posted by K Von Doom
Longpig already countered your point about the Crimson Bands.

Originally posted by long pig
The bands can chase you down or just appear around you, and be set to catch the nearest person.

either way they aren't instant..... which means there will be time to slice them up, absorb them, or destroy them with a blast

he also added this... which is equally interesting
Originally posted by long pig
Are you positive your guy can cast the Bands?
Not just anyone can do so, Doom tried, and Strange told him he cast them wrong, then proceeded to undo the spell.

I can't really remember anyone other than DS DD and Cytt' casting them.

Originally posted by K Von Doom
Nope it doesn't stop you from doing that, but which of the duplicates will you be aiming at? And each has cosmic/mystic shields remember, so no way that lightning, regular or otherwise, is getting through that.

all of them at once.... Thor's lightning attacks have caused problems for various powerful opponents... i don't think you can dismiss their damage potential so easily

>>>>>>>>>><<<<<<<<<<

ok ....... how would your character even know what the quantum bands can and cannot detect?... so why would the magic shields be outer? the power cosmic has larger reserves than you magical powers so it would make more sense for them to be utilised as the initial defence

even you have to admit that multiple magical duplicates split your power into less effective means.... even if you created one more powerful than the others it still wouldn't be nearly as shielded as a single being... writhing or not it wouldn't last more than a second or two... especially when you keep yourself shielded and invisible

as for multitasking and having large power reserves.... i've read quite a few stories with Dr Strange where he is worried about the amount of energy/strength he has left and how much he uses up on powerful attacks...... you will be weakening throughout the battle and neither Morg nor MM's strength can replenish you when your magic is draining

Originally posted by K Von Doom
This will be like a Professor X mind-assault on a regular person.
a regular person who is invulnerable to telepathy and has mystical resilience to mental assaults...

new trick..... the quantum bands control the entire electromagnetic spectrum....... i use these to draw in all the light in the area causing complete darkness ..... your character would attempt to use some magical trick to grant himself sight... either way blinding him momentarily will confuse and disorientate him...... while you're coming up with some way to see, i track your energy, fly right up to you stop, unleash a flash of light more blinding than a nuclear explosion, which may not actually permanently blind a heralds eyes... but the magicians mind can't know this and will react as anyone else would.... he'd panic and attempt to cover his eyes... which in turn would further drop any offence and most of his defence..... i use this opportunity to smash & blast the hell of out MTM

We need some more voters...it's still 3-3. Damn good fight, though...but I realize it must be a bit tiring.

And I'm too lazy to quote it right now, but I referred to my guy by about 10 different names in my write-up (my, I, we, him, Kinky, the General, Apollo, Loki, etc.) A little odd...but fun...I switch a lot in most threads anyway (i.e. I'll use something like "Tony" and "Iron Man" in the same sentence).

-DM

Originally posted by DigiMark007
We need some more voters...it's still 3-3. Damn good fight, though...but I realize it must be a bit tiring.

And I'm too lazy to quote it right now, but I referred to my guy by about 10 different names in my write-up (my, I, we, him, Kinky, the General, Apollo, Loki, etc.) A little odd...but fun...I switch a lot in most threads anyway (i.e. I'll use something like "Tony" and "Iron Man" in the same sentence).

-DM

lol... yeah.... i had done it so many times in my initial write-ups and first few debate points with KVD... at first i'd read through and change them from "i'd blast the hell out of you" to "Thordon will blast the hell out of MTM"...... now i've just resigned myself to the fact that i actually am Thordon.... it saves a lot of confusion

Originally posted by long pig
Are you positive your guy can cast the Bands?
Not just anyone can do so, Doom tried, and Strange told him he cast them wrong, then proceeded to undo the spell.

I can't really remember anyone other than DS DD and Cytt' casting them.

Dr Doom did cast that spell wrong but at that time Doom hadn't been trained by Strange yet, so Doom's magic was still tied to the "minor magic of the earth", he probably knew of the spell but hadn't cast it before. Mordred's magic far surpasses Doom's - Doom knows gypsy magic and was trained for a little bit by Dr Strange; Mordred was already a magician in the 16th century before Chthon gave him the power of the Darkhold.

Seeing as the Darkhold (a book written by the Elder God Chthon, of every spell he knew) is a complete book of dark magic, and Mordred knows every spell in that book in addition to the magic he already knows... I'm positive he'd be able to cast the Crimson Bands.

That's a valid question though

Originally posted by Scoobless
just because shields are magic based doesn't mean they will be an effective defence against Mjolnir..... in fact if they get absorbed there's a very good chance that the link from your shields to your magic reserves will cause Mjolnir to begin absorbing all your magical power... while it may not happen instantly it should prove very uncomfortable to you making your other plans sloppy or nullified

either way they aren't instant..... which means there will be time to slice them up, absorb them, or destroy them with a blast

all of them at once.... Thor's lightning attacks have caused problems for various powerful opponents... i don't think you can dismiss their damage potential so easily

ok ....... how would your character even know what the quantum bands can and cannot detect?... so why would the magic shields be outer? the power cosmic has larger reserves than you magical powers so it would make more sense for them to be utilised as the initial defence

even you have to admit that multiple magical duplicates split your power into less effective means.... even if you created one more powerful than the others it still wouldn't be nearly as shielded as a single being... writhing or not it wouldn't last more than a second or two... especially when you keep yourself shielded and invisible

as for multitasking and having large power reserves.... i've read quite a few stories with Dr Strange where he is worried about the amount of energy/strength he has left and how much he uses up on powerful attacks...... you will be weakening throughout the battle and neither Morg nor MM's strength can replenish you when your magic is draining

a regular person who is invulnerable to telepathy and has mystical resilience to mental assaults...

new trick..... the quantum bands control the entire electromagnetic spectrum....... i use these to draw in all the light in the area causing complete darkness ..... your character would attempt to use some magical trick to grant himself sight... either way blinding him momentarily will confuse and disorientate him...... while you're coming up with some way to see, i track your energy, fly right up to you stop, unleash a flash of light more blinding than a nuclear explosion, which may not actually permanently blind a heralds eyes... but the magicians mind can't know this and will react as anyone else would.... he'd panic and attempt to cover his eyes... which in turn would further drop any offence and most of his defence..... i use this opportunity to smash & blast the hell of out MTM

Oh no, I agree that the magic shields will eventually crumble or be absorbed into Mjolnir. It'd be a blatant lie if I said that they'll hold up to a continuous attack from that magic hammer. I'm saying that they're more than sufficient defence against your "Lightning at the start of the battle" strategy. Hammer the hell out of them and they'll eventually crumble. Absorb them, that'll take time. As for absorbing the source of my magic power... I'm going to have to say no. I'd like to see it happen... how many times has Mjolnir absorbed cosmic or magic energy and then start absorbing he source? If he absorbed a cosmic energy blast from the Surfer, does he then start draining the Surfer? If he absorbed the Flames of the Faltine, does the start absorbing Dormammu? Absorb the Darkhold? The nerve...

I think I can dismiss the damage potential of lightning, regular or otherwise.

Whether Flash Thordon can detect magic isn't really a concern of mine - I'll be using magic anyway. That the Quantum Bands can't detect that type of energy is a bonus, and a slight disadvantage for your character. Never mind that magic shields are my first line of defence... it's my flawed strategy, Scoob

Yes, creating duplicates will split up my energies but when I (now I'm referring to MTM as I) draw from a near-infinite source - the Darkhold - I can afford creating multiple shields. A second or two is more than I need from each of the duplicates. But with the telepathic and psionic attacks on your mind, it'll take you longer to smash through each subsequent duplicate.

The big difference between Dr Strange and Mordred is that the Sorcerer Supreme is a human conduit for magic, Mordred is magic incarnate (according to the Demogorge). Running out of energy is the least of my concerns - more concerned about the crazy blond guy with the hammer.

Haha Scoob. You keep persisting that you're invulnerable to telepathy when I think everyone knows FT is just a regular joe without any mental defences against two telepathic juggernauts. Hate to sound like a broken record but again - the Quantum Bands can't defend against psionics, and neither can they protect you from magical telepathy. Better believe it

As for your new strategy... I have eyes that can see in the darkest reaches of space... and with that one line, your new strategy is negated.

Originally posted by K Von Doom
Oh no, I agree that the magic shields will eventually crumble or be absorbed into Mjolnir. It'd be a blatant lie if I said that they'll hold up to a continuous attack from that magic hammer. I'm saying that they're more than sufficient defence against your "Lightning at the start of the battle" strategy. Hammer the hell out of them and they'll eventually crumble. Absorb them, that'll take time. As for absorbing the source of my magic power... I'm going to have to say no. I'd like to see it happen... how many times has Mjolnir absorbed cosmic or magic energy and then start absorbing he source? If he absorbed a cosmic energy blast from the Surfer, does he then start draining the Surfer? If he absorbed the Flames of the Faltine, does the start absorbing Dormammu? Absorb the Darkhold? The nerve...

I think I can dismiss the damage potential of lightning, regular or otherwise.

Whether Flash Thordon can detect magic isn't really a concern of mine - I'll be using magic anyway. That the Quantum Bands can't detect that type of energy is a bonus, and a slight disadvantage for your character. Never mind that magic shields are my first line of defence... it's my flawed strategy, Scoob

Yes, creating duplicates will split up my energies but when I (now I'm referring to MTM as I) draw from a near-infinite source - the Darkhold - I can afford creating multiple shields. A second or two is more than I need from each of the duplicates. But with the telepathic and psionic attacks on your mind, it'll take you longer to smash through each subsequent duplicate.

The big difference between Dr Strange and Mordred is that the Sorcerer Supreme is a human conduit for magic, Mordred is magic incarnate (according to the Demogorge) - the spellcasting between the two of them is different - Strange casts spells, Mordred accesses the Darkhold's power directly. Running out of energy is the least of my concerns - more concerned about the crazy blond guy with the hammer.

Haha Scoob. You keep persisting that you're invulnerable to telepathy when I think everyone knows FT is just a regular joe without any mental defences against two telepathic juggernauts. Hate to sound like a broken record but again - the Quantum Bands can't defend against psionics, and neither can they protect you from magical telepathy. Better believe it

As for your new strategy... I have eyes that can see in the darkest reaches of space... and with that one line, your new strategy is negated.

oops... double post... sorry

Originally posted by K Von Doom
As for your new strategy... I have eyes that can see in the darkest reaches of space... and with that one line, your new strategy is negated.

eyes can only see if there is light to allow them to see.... the "darkest reaches of space" still have very low levels of ambient light (whether visible or not to humans) ... once all of that is gone you'll see as well as a brick in a bag
Originally posted by K Von Doom
cosmic energy blast from the Surfer, does he then start draining the Surfer? If he absorbed the Flames of the Faltine, does the start absorbing Dormammu?

i think Quasar can drain the Surfer.... not 100% sure about the rest... although Thor completely drained the Presence (uber powerful russian super villain) and would have killed him by doing so if some woman hadn't begged him to stop.... since Mjolnir absorbs almost all energies i don't see why it wouldn't work on a magically powered foe

Originally posted by K Von Doom
I think I can dismiss the damage potential of lightning, regular or otherwise.

there will be no dismissing of my awesome magical lightning.... you Curr

Originally posted by K Von Doom
Whether Flash Thordon can detect magic isn't really a concern of mine - I'll be using magic anyway. That the Quantum Bands can't detect that type of energy is a bonus, and a slight disadvantage for your character. Never mind that magic shields are my first line of defence... it's my flawed strategy

almost as bad as your flawed spelling.... either way, whatever shields you have upfront will only add to my character's own power

Originally posted by K Von Doom
Running out of energy is the least of my concerns - more concerned about the crazy blond guy with the hammer.

as well you should be ....

Originally posted by K Von Doom
Haha Scoob. You keep persisting that you're invulnerable to telepathy

i never claimed invulnerability.... only stronger than normal defence to it... although i am invulnerable to regular telepathy in the form of non-magic mind reading/control

Originally posted by Scoobless
eyes can only see if there is light to allow them to see.... the "darkest reaches of space" still have very low levels of ambient light (whether visible or not to humans) ... once all of that is gone you'll see as well as a brick in a bag

i think Quasar can drain the Surfer.... not 100% sure about the rest... although Thor completely drained the Presence (uber powerful russian super villain) and would have killed him by doing so if some woman hadn't begged him to stop.... since Mjolnir absorbs almost all energies i don't see why it wouldn't work on a magically powered foe

there will be no dismissing of my awesome magical lightning.... you Curr

almost as bad as your flawed spelling.... either way, whatever shields you have upfront will only add to my character's own power

as well you should be ....

i never claimed invulnerability.... only stronger than normal defence to it... although i am invulnerable to regular telepathy in the form of non-magic mind reading/control

Regular eyes can't see further than light allows them - Surfer can see a lightyear away. Herald's don't have regular eyes.

Stronger than normal defence? You're vulnerable to magic telepathy. You're vulnerable to psionics. So where does this "stronger than normal defence" come from"?

Flawed spelling eh? Mye spelinggs hav knowphlaws.

Whatever shields my character has will hold long enough for me to slow you down and sap your strength via telepathy. You can drain the shields to your heart's content. You can try to drain my character if you can get a hold of him - which you won't. But for arguments sake, in the off chance that you grab on to him and start draining, I'll be lopping of FT's head.

Originally posted by K Von Doom
Regular eyes can't see further than light allows them - Surfer can see a lightyear away. Herald's don't have regular eyes.

further and better yes... but they still need variations of the electromagnetic spectrum to see at all... if i draw in all of this then you are blinded

Originally posted by K Von Doom
Stronger than normal defence? You're vulnerable to magic telepathy. You're vulnerable to psionics. So where does this "stronger than normal defence" come from"?

Thor's meta-human resilience to mental attack.... the fact that my mind will be operating at a greatly increased rate should help as well..... quicker recovery time... in fact as my mind is working within a different time frame it may make it extremely difficult for you to affect me at all when coupled with Thor's resistance

Originally posted by K Von Doom
in the off chance that you grab on to him and start draining, I'll be lopping of FT's head.

i don't need to grab hold to drain you.... it all works remotely while i'm also swinging/throwing various quantum weapons at you & continually blasting......spam_laser

Originally posted by Scoobless
further and better yes... but they still need variations of the electromagnetic spectrum to see at all... if i draw in all of this then you are blinded

Thor's meta-human resilience to mental attack.... the fact that my mind will be operating at a greatly increased rate should help as well..... quicker recovery time... in fact as my mind is working within a different time frame it may make it extremely difficult for you to affect me at all when coupled with Thor's resistance

i don't need to grab hold to drain you.... it all works remotely while i'm also swinging/throwing various quantum weapons at you & continually blasting......spam_laser

I'm going to have to disagree with your opinion about sight, and probably anyone who knows the powers of Galactus' heralds would as well.

We're back to your Thor's brain argument? Alright Scoob, I'll humor you... again, my telepathy is attacking Wendell's mind, the psionics are attacking Wendell's mind, not Thor's brain. And even if, and that's a big IF, Thor's brain is resistant to mental attack, he's still susceptible to mental suggestion, confusion and trickery.

How are you using the hammer to smash a shield, conjure lightning and absorb magical energies while you're being mentally attacked? Even Thor has never done all these at the same time... "Have at thee knave! And Mjolnir, while you're at it conjure some lightning and drain that guy over there". What the?! And it still begs the question, how are you grabbing hold of me... shields will take time to batter through or drain, you're dodging spikes, being blasted mentally, tricked telepathically, you can't see me or detect me, axes flying at you (not knowing which is the real one)... fast as you initially were, you're slowing down... and I'm not even in the vicinity, I'm shielded, invisible and intangible sitting on a tank watching the lightshow

Originally posted by K Von Doom
We're back to your Thor's brain argument?

*sigh*... no.... we're on the part where i argue that Thor's resilience (much like MM's telepathy) is part of the characters power.... i claimed Thor's powers as part of my amalgam... so i get his mental resistance as well as his strength

Originally posted by Scoobless
*sigh*... no.... we're on the part where i argue that Thor's resilience (much like MM's telepathy) is part of the characters power.... i claimed Thor's powers as part of my amalgam... so i get his mental resistance as well as his strength

Okay Scoob, but Thor is still susceptible to mental suggestion, confusion and trickery... (Roy Thomas run on Thor, and actual mythology - Thor tricked into thinking a mountain is a giant's head so he smashed it and wrestiling an old woman, not knowing it's old age)... so Thor's mental defences are not that great

Originally posted by K Von Doom
so Thor's mental defences are not that great

they aren't perfect but they are there..... the fact is that you're "beaming" psi-attacks at regular speed and Thordon is experiencing and recovering from them at superspeed... by the time you've finished sending each one Thordon is over it and you lose the chance to take advantage of distraction

Originally posted by Scoobless
they aren't perfect but they are there..... the fact is that you're "beaming" psi-attacks at regular speed and Thordon is experiencing and recovering from them at superspeed... by the time you've finished sending each one Thordon is over it and you lose the chance to take advantage of distraction

They aren't perfect? Aww... come on, it's virtually non-existent. It's like holding up a piece of paper to block a cosmic blast from the Surfer. And it isn't one shot of TP blast after another, it's a constant stream of telepathy, psionic energy and mind-tricking illusions... no recovery time for you Scoob

Originally posted by K Von Doom
it isn't one shot of TP blast after another, it's a constant stream of telepathy, psionic energy and mind-tricking illusions...

there's no way your guy can perform "a constant stream of telepathy, psionic energy and mind-tricking illusions" and manage anything else at the same time.... basically you'd only be able to do that until you got mentally tired then it'd be back to fighting for both of them.... and you may incite FT into a rage ... he could perform explosive outbursts of energy (no complex thought needed) which wouldn't harm himself or lessen his power reserves in any way (as they are limitless) but may hurt you.. or at the very least break your concentration

can you even have a constant psi-blast? has it ever been done? i thought the point of it being a blast was to hit over and over???.... i know you can't perform a constant stream of illusions into the mind as that's basically mind control, which is banned...... or by illusions do you mean like real world eye fooling illusions?

you do realise we'll probably argue this out for a while .... going over every little point... then Evangel will come in before anyone else votes and close it

Back to the darkness thing... I'm pretty sure herald eyes are just regular eyes on steroids. they still need light to see, just a whole lot less than normal eyes. Which is why they can see light years ahead of them, but still have a limit to their eyesight.

Originally posted by Dizzle
Back to the darkness thing... I'm pretty sure herald eyes are just regular eyes on steroids. they still need light to see, just a whole lot less than normal eyes. Which is why they can see light years ahead of them, but still have a limit to their eyesight.

exactly.... i recently re-read "the Rebirth of Thanos" and Surfer tries to track his teleporting chair thingy... he shifts his view between the various electromagnetic spectrums available and he finally locks onto it... of course Thanos manages to trick him... but the point is he needs those wavelengths to see

Hmm... I wonder what happens if the fight stays a tie for a week or so...

Originally posted by Scoobless
you do realise we'll probably argue this out for a while .... going over every little point... then Evangel will come in before anyone else votes and close it


I know... of course, you could always concede this point.

But enough has probably been written for people to make up their minds. I know I'm not looking forward to debating this much again if I make it through. I've done so little work the past couple of days.

Originally posted by Dizzle
Hmm... I wonder what happens if the fight stays a tie for a week or so...

We both get eliminated

Originally posted by Scoobless
i know you can't perform a constant stream of illusions into the mind as that's basically mind control, which is banned...... or by illusions do you mean like real world eye fooling illusions?

Constant stream of illusions isn't mind controlling. Illusions show you something that isn't there, whether you act on it is your choice. Mind control is actually controlling a person and you have no choice. "Thor's brain" can't detect whether something is an illusion. Quasar has no way of detecting something that's magically conjured.

Does your guy need the Darkhold book to use it?

Originally posted by Dizzle
Back to the darkness thing... I'm pretty sure herald eyes are just regular eyes on steroids. they still need light to see, just a whole lot less than normal eyes. Which is why they can see light years ahead of them, but still have a limit to their eyesight.

I still think that this is incorrect. Terrax was able to navigate his way in a black hole and hide. And if you say there's complete darkness in the battlefield, that would mean no light of any sort - no energy (no glowing Q-bands, no energy output for Mjolnir, no lightning from your running), no sun, no reflected light, no lightning... etc. And even then, for your strategy to work, I'd have to have normal eyes to blind, which I don't.

Originally posted by long pig
Does your guy need the Darkhold book to use it?

Nope. Everything in the book was given to him by Chthon. He IS the Darkhold.

It doesn't drive him insane either right?
Everyone who's had it other than Strange, flipped out or turned into a warewolf.

Originally posted by long pig
It doesn't drive him insane either right?
Everyone who's had it other than Strange, flipped out or turned into a warewolf.

I think everyone who's tried to access the Darkhold has been corrupted by the power in some way. But Mordred was given the power by Chthon personally, so there was no side-effect, other than losing his soul that is.

Pshh, souls are for wimps.

Originally posted by Dizzle
Pshh, souls are for wimps.

Indeed

Real good fight.
I'm sorta afraid to take your guy on KVD if you win......Darkhold is a mofo to deal with.

And at the beginning of this I saw Flash Thordon... Saviour of the freaking Universe... simply hackin through a whole bunch of lesser amalgamations. Good fightin KVD. Scoob still dominates the name contest though.

Originally posted by long pig
Real good fight.
I'm sorta afraid to take your guy on KVD if you win......Darkhold is a mofo to deal with.

It'll be a tough match either way. Flash, Dr Strange and Absorbing Man against Manhunter, Mordred and Morg.

Agreed.

-smiles evily- I wish my guy had total control of the darkhold....

Originally posted by long pig
Agreed.

-smiles evily- I wish my guy had total control of the darkhold....

Doesn't everyone? A magic battle between Dr Strange and Mordred could go on for a while. A strategy utilising other abilities might be the key to winning. No need to worry though, you might end up facing Flash Thordon instead, where the worthiness issue will be brought up again I imagine

- CoughstrangehasthedarkholdandcompletecontrolofitCo
ugh-

Excuse me, i have a cold.

Originally posted by K Von Doom
And even then, for your strategy to work, I'd have to have normal eyes to blind, which I don't.

i already explained that it isn't so much about blinding than it is about shocking your wizards mind into thinking he could be blinded.... causing him to momentarily panic and drop his guard

Originally posted by K Von Doom
Doesn't everyone? A magic battle between Dr Strange and Mordred could go on for a while. A strategy utilising other abilities might be the key to winning. No need to worry though, you might end up facing Flash Thordon instead, where the worthiness issue will be brought up again I imagine

Originally posted by Scoobless
i already explained that it isn't so much about blinding than it is about shocking your wizards mind into thinking he could be blinded.... causing him to momentarily panic and drop his guard


"Shocking my wizard's mind into thinking he could be blinded"? I don't think so Scoob.

Originally posted by K Von Doom
"Shocking my wizard's mind into thinking he could be blinded"? I don't think so Scoob.

that's why you'll never be a successful wizard..... how would he know his eyes can take a flash that previously would have burned his retina out?

covering your eyes is a natural response

Originally posted by Scoobless
how would he know his eyes can take a flash that previously would have burned his retina out?


Because the moment we materialize into the battlefield and the one hour prep time begins, I'll be seeing through Morg's eyes - and with it, I'll be seeing lightyears away, everything in the EM specturm - so Morgred will quickly figure out that he has hyper-enhanced eyesight and that he can't be blinded by regular means. PLUS regular Mordred doesn't have regular eyes anyway... look at his pic.

Originally posted by K Von Doom
Because the moment we materialize into the battlefield and the one hour prep time begins, I'll be seeing through Morg's eyes - and with it, I'll be seeing lightyears away, everything in the EM specturm - so Morgred will quickly figure out that he has hyper-enhanced eyesight and that he can't be blinded by regular means. PLUS regular Mordred doesn't have regular eyes anyway... look at his pic.

just because he can see better he's automatically going to think he can't be blinded by regular means?... i find that highly doubtful... and i'm not talking about "regular means"... i'm talking full spectrum blinding flash of light

Originally posted by Scoobless
just because he can see better he's automatically going to think he can't be blinded by regular means?... i find that highly doubtful... and i'm not talking about "regular means"... i'm talking full spectrum blinding flash of light

Yep, that's what Morgred is going to assume... what I find highly unlikely is this ability you're claiming - "full spectrum blinding flash of light from absolute darkness"... to get absolute darkness you'd have to block out the sun, get rid of all the lightning coming from Mjolnir, stop moving so there's no speed force lightning, stop shooting energy blasts, absorb all the fire (elemental and mystic) that I've created and absorb every iota of cosmic energy flying around... all of which will take time and will keep you static in one area. Now you'll have to ask yourself, is being grounded, not moving, not shooting and constantly absorbing energy something you'll want to be doing? If your answer is yes... the crimson bands just got you and you've just been cleaved in half by my cosmic axe. Game over.

Originally posted by K Von Doom
Now you'll have to ask yourself, is being grounded, not moving, not shooting and constantly absorbing energy something you'll want to be doing?

ok then........ i create a dome around the arena to block any incoming energy... absorb as much inside the dome as possible while still keeping up a good pace.... forcing your eyes to work under extremely little light... then do the flash in front of you ..... total darkness may be a bonus... but it isn't completely necesssary for the tactic to work

My vote to Scoobless.

Krissy Gets my vote.

lmao....... guess we're keeping it tied then

How about darkclaw against one of those?

Darkclaw would fall so fast against any of the Amaglam's in this tournament. Darkclaw is not in the same league as any of these Amaglam's in the tournament.

Originally posted by Sentry
Darkclaw would fall so fast against any of the Amaglam's in this tournament. Darkclaw is not in the same league as any of these Amaglam's in the tournament.

Darkclaw... as in Batman/Wolverine Darkclaw?... lol... he'd get owned .... even by Long Pig's feeble creation

Originally posted by Scoobless
Darkclaw... as in Batman/Wolverine Darkclaw?... lol... he'd get owned .... even by Long Pig's feeble creation



LOL! Wait I shouldn't talk. longpig owned me in this tourney. Fu<king Strange.... His super powered godly magic should put him above skyfather...*$)#^^$)*@)%!!!

I suppose he's not an effective weapon because he feels remorse? How would Hyena perform? He can make a gesture of slitting his throat when in an adamantium feed!

Originally posted by Sentry
Fu<king Strange.... His super powered godly magic should put him above skyfather...*$)#^^$)*@)%!!!

Just wait...if a true god gets a hold of Strange and his petty magics *coughlokicough* your loss will be avenged. Bwahaha...

-DM

P.S. 4-4...great, I guess the 2nd round is never going to start.

*coughlokiandstrangealreadyfaughtandstrangewoncoug
h*
damn this cold!!

Seriously, c'mon people, vote you mofos....lets goooooooooooooo

Originally posted by Scoobless
ok then........ i create a dome around the arena to block any incoming energy... absorb as much inside the dome as possible while still keeping up a good pace.... forcing your eyes to work under extremely little light... then do the flash in front of you ..... total darkness may be a bonus... but it isn't completely necesssary for the tactic to work


What kind of dome? A Quantum dome? Quantum constructs are translucent, meaning light will get through. And whatever quantum construct you create will be sloppy due to the telepathic attack you're currently experiencing. And how will you do a flash right in front of me when you don't know where I am? And again, a herald's eyes works just as well in the middle of a star as it does in a black hole - doesn't matter how much light is around, you're not blinding anyone. Of course, FT won't know this so while he's absorbing energy he's instantly trapped by the crimson bands. The defending champ is going down!

Originally posted by Scoobless
Darkclaw... as in Batman/Wolverine Darkclaw?... lol... he'd get owned

Are you mocking the guy who just voted for you, Scoob? Hehe.

Originally posted by Sentry
LOL! Wait I shouldn't talk. longpig owned me in this tourney. Fu<king Strange.... His super powered godly magic should put him above skyfather...*$)#^^$)*@)%!!!

You know you would've drafted Strange in a second, Sentry.

He tried for the next best thing, Druid.

4-4

Well, what do we do now?

Originally posted by long pig
Well, what do we do now?

Cry...

KVD and Scoob should just start PM'ing people campaigning for votes. That might be interesting. But otherwise, looks like we're deadlocked...

-DM

I vote for Krissy.

5-4
Scoobs online now!
pm people ya dirty scott.

Vote for scooby doo... yeah its old...

you gotta be kidding me....

5-5 it is ....*profound sigh*

-DM

Originally posted by long pig
5-4
Scoobs online now!
pm people ya dirty scott.

only 1 "T" in Scot ya muppet