What does it take to go to hell?

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XxoooxX
Cristians I have a question. What does someone need to do to go to hell like inorder for god to send someone to hell?

sonnet
Originally posted by XxoooxX
Cristians I have a question. What does someone need to do to go to hell like inorder for god to send someone to hell?

If you reject Jesus as son of God and saviour then hell is were you will end up. Also when you blaspheme againt the Holy Spirit .When you have accepted Jesus and become born again (spiritually) you have to seek sanctification. But for a even better guide read the Bible. It will answer your questions.

XxoooxX
I need a person to answer my questions. I have red the bible whan I was a cristian




If god were to send someone to hell for rejecting him and never giving you another chance that would be childish and wrong. Dosen't sound like somthing a perfict god would do. Morlike somthing a little kid would do.

sonnet
Originally posted by XxoooxX
I need a person to answer my questions. I have red the bible whan I was a cristian




If god were to send someone to hell for rejecting him and never giving you another chance that would be childish and wrong. Dosen't sound like somthing a perfict god would do. Morlike somthing a little kid would do.

It is not about rejecting God but Jesus as savior. If you reject him now it is not too late, you can still be accept Him into your life at any point in time. You must just hope that it will be before you get to stand before God.

Sorry I was wrong, the Bible will never give you the answers you seek as you dont want them. You want to hear the answers you want to hear. And those you wont find in the Bible.

XxoooxX
Does Jesus rilly need us to accept him? will he run off and cry if we don't
will it hert his feelings. If he is perfict than he wouldin't send someone to hell for not accepting him. That still sounds like a kid.

If you don't accept me into your life you are going to hell...... Somthing a Kid with too much power would say. laughing out loud

debbiejo
SOME FACTS ABOUT HELL..AND NOBODIES GOING THERE..

IMPORTANT FACTS
Gehenna was a well-known locality near Jerusalem, and ought no more to be translated Hell, than should Sodom or Gomorrah. See Josh. 15: 8; II Kings 17: 10; II Chron. 28: 3; Jer. 7: 31, 32; 19: 2.
Gehenna is never employed in the Old Testament to mean anything else than the place with which every Jew was familiar.
The word should have been left untranslated as it is in some versions, and it would not be misunderstood. It was not misunderstood by the Jews to whom Jesus addressed it. Walter Balfour well says: "What meaning would the Jews who were familiar with this word, and knew it to signify the valley of Hinnom, be likely to attach to it when they heard it used by our Lord? Would they, contrary to all former usage, transfer its meaning from a place with whose locality and history they had been familiar from their infancy, to a place of misery in another world? This conclusion is certainly inadmissible. By what rule of interpretation, then, can we arrive at the conclusion that this word means a place of misery and death?"
The French Bible, the Emphatic Diaglott, Improved Version, Wakefield's Translation and Newcomb's retain the proper noun, Gehenna, the name of a place as well-known as Babylon.
Gehenna is never mentioned in the Apocrypha as a place of future punishment as it would have been had such been its meaning before and at the time of Christ.
No Jewish writer, such as Josephus or Philo, ever uses it as the name of a place of future punishment, as they would have done had such then been its meaning.
No classic Greek author ever alludes to it and therefore it was a Jewish locality, purely.
The first Jewish writer who ever names it as a place of future punishment is Jonathan Ben Uzziel who wrote, according to various authorities, from the second to the eighth century, A. D.
The first Christian writer who calls Hell Gehenna is Justin Martyr who wrote about A. D. 150.
Neither Christ nor his apostles ever named it to Gentiles, but only to Jews which proves it a locality only known to Jews, whereas, if it were a place of punishment after death for sinners, it would have been preached to Gentiles as well as Jews.
It was only referred to twelve times on eight occasions in all the ministry of Christ and the apostles, and in the Gospels and Epistles. Were they faithful to their mission to say no more than this on so vital a theme as an endless Hell, if they intended to teach it?
Only Jesus and James ever named it. Neither Paul, John, Peter nor Jude ever employ it. Would they not have warned sinners concerning it, if there were a Gehenna of torment after death?
Paul says he "shunned not to declare the whole counsel of God," and yet though he was the great preacher of the Gospel to the Gentiles he never told them that Gehenna is a place of after-death punishment. Would he not have repeatedly warned sinners against it were there such a place?
;nbsp
Dr. Thayer significantly remarks: "The Savior and James are the only persons in all the New Testament who use the word. John Baptist, who preached to the most wicked of men did not use it once. Paul wrote fourteen epistles and yet never once mentions it. Peter does not name it, nor Jude; and John, who wrote the gospel, three epistles, and the Book of Revelations, never employs it in a single instance. Now if Gehenna or Hell really reveals the terrible fact of endless woe, how can we account for this strange silence? How is it possible, if they knew its meaning and believed it a part of Christ's teaching that they should not have used it a hundred or a thousand times, instead of never using it at all; especially when we consider the infinite interests involved? The Book of Acts contains the record of the apostolic preaching,and the history of the first planting of the church among the Jews and Gentiles, and embraces a period of thirty years from the ascension of Christ. In all this history, in all this preaching of the disciples and apostles of Jesus there is no mention of Gehenna. In thirty years of missionary effort these men of God, addressing people of all characters and nations never under any circumstances threaten them with the torments of Gehenna or allude to it in the most distant manner! In the face of such a fact as this can any man believe that Gehenna signifies endless punishment and that this is part of divine revelation, a part of the Gospel message to the world? These considerations show how impossible it is to establish the doctrine in review on the word Gehenna. All the facts are against the supposition that the term was used by Christ or his disciples in the sense of endless punishment. There is not the least hint of any such meaning attached to it, nor the slightest preparatory notice that any such new revelation was to be looked for in this old familiar word."
Jesus never uttered it to unbelieving Jews, nor to anybody but his disciples, but twice (Matt. 23: 15-33) during his entire ministry, nor but four times in all. If it were the final abode of unhappy millions, would not his warnings abound with exhortations to avoid it?
Jesus never warned unbelievers against it but once in all his ministry (Matt. 23: 33) and he immediately explained it as about to come in this life.
If Gehenna is the name of Hell then men's bodies are burned there as well as their souls. Matt. 5: 29; 18: 9.
If it be the name of endless torment, then literal fire is the sinner's punishment. Mark 9: 43-48.
Salvation is never said to be from Gehenna.
Gehenna is never said to be of endless duration nor spoken of as destined to last forever, so that even admitting the popular ideas of its existence after death it gives no support to the idea of endless torment.
Clement, a Universalist, used Gehenna to describe his ideas of punishment. He was one of the earliest of the Christian Fathers. The word did not then denote endless punishment.
A shameful death or severe punishment in this life was at the time of Christ denominated Gehenna (Schleusner, Canon Farrar and others), and there is no evidence that Gehenna meant anything else at the time of Christ.

Storm
Most liberals feel that hell is neither a place of eternal punishment or annihilation, as much as a concept: the separation from god. In addition, many liberal Christians feel that god would not punish someone for petty sins, oversights, or errors - to do so would be unjust and is not the true nature of god. Further, liberals generally feel that one would not be held accountable for not having the opportunity to hear the gospel or the Christian viewpoint. This applies to both children who are too young to understand it and third world countries where the Christian faith has yet to penetrate.

Fundamentalist Christians would label hell as a place of eternal suffering and torture without any chance of relief.

Most Christian faiths hold central the belief that hell is the absence of god, although there are many disagreements as to whether hell is a concept, or a place of endless suffering.

With the many different offshoots of Christianity and their different interpretations of the passages in both the Old and New Testament, it becomes clear that differences between (and even within) denominational groups teach different paths to eternal salvation.

big gay kirk
Originally posted by XxoooxX
Cristians I have a question. What does someone need to do to go to hell like inorder for god to send someone to hell?

Personally I'd take the Midland Mainline at 6:15 from Leicester, and change at Lincoln....

big gay kirk
No sorry, I was thinking of Hull.....

big gay kirk
Although there's not much difference....

Morning_Glory
I dont think it is as complicated as some of you make it out to be...

debbiejo
Originally posted by big gay kirk
Personally I'd take the Midland Mainline at 6:15 from Leicester, and change at Lincoln....

There is a Hell Michigan....It's not too far from Paradise...seriously.

Lazerlike42
I posted this in another thread, but it answers the question perfectly of why it is not childish to end up in Hell. And also, we are debating if Hell is real in the other thread, so don't respond to it here I'm just answering the question if you want to talk about Hell keep it in the other one please smile

God did know that Satan (Lucifer is NOT the correct term and is very, very mistakenly taken to be the name of Satan) was going to turn against Him. He knew you were going to do the same. Satan was allowed to turn against God out of Love, as were you. It is a purely human expression to say that if you really love someone you will love them enough to let them go, and it is true. God wants us to be able to do what we want and to have freedom.

When I was younger, we had a dog. He was inherited to my family, and they did not dislike him but he was more a burden than anything, and they did not love him. I did. They required him to spend his life chained up on a 6 foot leash, chained to a chair his entire life, other than when we walked him. This is not love. They took care of him, fed him, took him to the vet, and had him groomed, but they clearly did not love him.

When I was MUCH younger, too young to remember, my family had another dog that was not inherited and was their own. He was allowed to roam the house, and was not on a leash. They loved him. Now it made it so that he could harm them (by chewing stuff up, urinating on the carpet, etc.), or that he could get harmed (by going somewhere unsafe due to his lack of restraint). He eventually did get hurt; he escaped and got hit by a car and died.

The fact is, however, that the first dog was kept tied up out of a lack of love, whereas the second was let free out of love. This is the same with God. He lets us be free, and have free will. He lets us do this, even though we can hurt ourselves (by killing one another, by letting ourselves or others wind up in poverty, by making choices that send us to hell), and we can hurt Him (by rejecting Him, by persecuting those who believe in Him).

This is why suffering exists. Additionally, it exists because it doesn't matter! In the end the suffering of this earth does not matter one bit. We do not suffer on this earth out of punishment from God (other than those times He does choose to punish us), but the following example holds true. When a parent punishes a child, the parent knows the child is suffering. The parent does not stop the child's suffering because of this, because the parent knows that the suffering does not matter in the end. In the end, the child will learn something which will help it be safer and more succesful in life. The parent knows that the child will be better off in the end and that the suffering doesn't matter. God lets us suffer because it doesn't matter at all; only what comes after life truly matters.

Furthermore, it is not God that makes us suffer, but ourselves and Satan. We make choices to lead to our suffering, and Satan encourages us to make these choices. God cannot stop it because he is a righteous and faithful God. He has promised us all free will. If God chooses to keep people safe from the suffering caused by terrorists, then he is not following His promise to the terrorists that they may have free will. To do anything else requires God to play favorites, and to treat some different from others. He cannot because it is not righteous to do so, and it is not fair to treat me one way and you another. It is not right to promise Saddam Hussein free will and then go back on that promise because He does not like what Saddam is doing. That would be like a parent telling a young child that she can spend her $5 in birthday money on anything she wants, and then not letting her buy something because ithe parent does not like it, only much worse. You may say that the parent is only doing that because he or she is wiser than the child and is trying to protect the child, but that is a HUMAN reaction, one that is still wrong, and one that still requires the breaking of a promise. God is perfect and cannot break a promise as this would be imperfection and it would be wrong. Even the most minor wronghood is something God cannot do because He cannot do any wronghood, not matter how small.

Hell was not made for us. It was not made for humans. It was made for Satan and his demons (other fallen angels). The only way we can end up there is by telling God that we want to go there. By rejecting God, that is what we are telling Him. He made Heaven for us. This is the key. God has made two places.... Heaven, for us, and Hell, for Satan. Once we die we must go to one or the other. When we reject God, we reject His gift of Heaven. Why?

We can choose to be one of two things: dependant on God, or independant of Him. When we believe, we accept what He is, and we know that we are dependant on Him. When we choose not to believe, for whatever reason, whether we are mad at Him, or just belive He does not exist, we are saying that we are fine on our own. We are saying that we can take care of ourselves and don't need anyone to do it for us. Now some parents are different and cut children off earlier, but for most people, we reach the age where we are old enough to support ourselves, but our parents still want to pay for our haircuts and provide us with health insurance, and especially clothing and food. Most of the time we accept these things. Some teenagers become so set on being independant, and refuse to accept food, clothing, anything from their parents.

Even though these parents are forever standing with their hands out, food and clothing being offered freely, the children want to support themseleves. Why? Perhaps they don't want to feel bound to their rules. Perhaps they just want to feel like they are not dependant on them. Either way, the food is there, the clothes are there, but it is simply not taken.

When we say we are independant from God, this is what we are doing. He is literally standing there offering to us all He has to give, and we simply say we don't want it. Maybe we don't want to follow his rules. Do we say that a parent does not love us because they want us to folow rules? Of course not. We know that (other than a few crazy parents here and there) their rules are designed because they know what is best for us and their rules are for our own good, even if we don't understand why. Nobody would say a parent does not love a child because the parent has rules. Maybe we are saying that we want to be independant from God. Either way, He is standing there, even more so He is walking up to us and asking us to take what He is offering and we are simply saying no!

God Loves you even now. You can say the most horrible things about Him and He still loves. There is nothing you can do that will turn him away from you. It is never too late, no matter what you have done. If you are stubborn, or won't turn to God because you have not for so long, it doesn't matter. He Loves you.... He Loves you.

God Bless You

XxoooxX
God Loves you even now. You can say the most horrible things about Him and He still loves. There is nothing you can do that will turn him away from you. It is never too late, no matter what you have done. If you are stubborn, or won't turn to God because you have not for so long, it doesn't matter. He Loves you.... He Loves you.


That's funney because my sister said that the only way you will go to hell is to see crist than still deny him. So he must not love you if he would send you to hell.

He would think of a far better way to teach you a lesson.

Lazerlike42
Originally posted by XxoooxX
God Loves you even now. You can say the most horrible things about Him and He still loves. There is nothing you can do that will turn him away from you. It is never too late, no matter what you have done. If you are stubborn, or won't turn to God because you have not for so long, it doesn't matter. He Loves you.... He Loves you.


That's funney because my sister said that the only way you will go to hell is to see crist than still deny him. So he must not love you if he would send you to hell.

He would think of a far better way to teach you a lesson.

God Himself never sends you to Hell, we only send ourselves. It will make more sense if you understand this:

Hell is not a place that we go. It is simply a total disconnection from God. We cannot be sent there by Him, we simply choose not to be connected and in "fellowship" with Him.

debbiejo
People like the throw hell around..Some churches even say that you don't have the holy spirit unless you talk in tongues. And if you don't have the holy spirit you're going to hell.

As I've said in another post. Our spirit goes back to god who gave it...Our spirit does not go to hell..

God created us with the spark or part of himself to give us life, he would not throw part of himself into hell.

Job said that there is no place where god is not...So if we're going to hell, god is there also.

Learning the culture of that time period helps to see what Jesus was talking about..http://www.tentmaker.org/articles/jesusteachingonhell.html

Even if you say that God doesn't send you to hell, but you send yourself there, wouldn't work either, because he would have to allow it.

Lazerlike42
Originally posted by debbiejo
People like the throw hell around..Some churches even say that you don't have the holy spirit unless you talk in tongues. And if you don't have the holy spirit you're going to hell.

As I've said in another post. Our spirit goes back to god who gave it...Our spirit does not go to hell..

God created us with the spark or part of himself to give us life, he would not throw part of himself into hell.

Job said that there is no place where god is not...So if we're going to hell, god is there also.

Learning the culture of that time period helps to see what Jesus was talking about..http://www.tentmaker.org/articles/jesusteachingonhell.html

Even if you say that God doesn't send you to hell, but you send yourself there, wouldn't work either, because he would have to allow it.

You don't have to speak in tongues. Paul says that some people will not speak in tongues.

Where does Job say that I have been wanting to look into that since you said it before....

debbiejo
I would have to look it up in my concordence, but it says something like.
" Where is a place where you are not, though I go into the /sheol/grave/pit (?), you are there, if I go....etc.."

I'm sure it's Job and not David.

I'll try to look it up, but found this interesting anyway.
http://www.bibletopics.com/biblestudy/149.htm

debbiejo
Ps. 139: 7-10 I found it...Guess it was David?

Amos 9: 1-4

THOUGHT THIS WAS INTERESTING BACKGROUND.
Matthew 5:21-22:

In Mt. 5.21-22, Jesus used Gehenna for the first time in inspired speech:

Ye have heard that it was said to them of old time, Thou shalt not kill; and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment: but I say unto you, that every one who is angry with his brother shall be in danger of the judgment, and whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of the hell of fire (Gehenna--SGD).

As we mentioned earlier in this study, Jesus actually used the Greek word Gehenna for the first time in inspired writing. The word had never occurred in the Greek Old Testament, the Septuagint. When we read the word hell, all kinds of sermon outlines, illustrations, and ideas come to the fore of our minds. None of these came to the minds of Jesus' listeners, for they had never heard the word before in inspired speech. It is very significant that the word did not occur even once in the Septuagint, quoted by Jesus and his apostles.

I suggest that to the Jews in Jesus' audience, Jesus' words referred merely to the valley southeast of Jerusalem. In their Old Testament background, Gehenna meant a place of burning, a valley where rebellious Jews had been slaughtered before and would be again if they didn't repent, as Malachi, John the Baptist, and Jesus urged them to do. Jesus didn't have to say what Gehenna was, as it was a well-known place to the people of that area, but his teaching was at least consistent with the national judgment announced by Malachi and John the Baptist. The closest fire in the context is Mt. 3.10-12, where John announced imminent fiery judgment on the nation of Israel.

Let's notice the other Gehenna passages to ascertain more about Jesus' use of Gehenna. As we do so, let's analyze each passage thus: Does the passage teach things we don't believe about an unending fiery hell, but which fit national judgment in Gehenna?

Matthew 5:29-30

The next passage is Mt. 5.29-30, where Jesus used Gehenna twice when he said:


And if thy right eye causeth thee to stumble, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not thy whole body go into hell (Gehenna--SGD). And if thy right hand causeth thee to stumble, cut it off, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not thy whole body go into hell (Gehenna--SGD).

In our traditional idea of hell, unending fire after the end of time, we normally don't think of people having their physical limbs at that time. This is not an argument, but just the realization that we don't think in terms of some people being in heaven with missing eyes and limbs, and some in hell with all of theirs. However, these words do fit a national judgment. It would be better to go into the kingdom of the Messiah missing some members, than to go into an imminent national judgment of unquenchable fire with all our members. This was equivalent to John's demand that his Jewish audience bring forth fruits worthy of repentance or receive imminent unquenchable fire. The whole body of a Jew could be cast into the valley of Gehenna in the fiery judgment of which John spoke.

Matthew 10:28

The fourth time Jesus used Gehenna was when he said:

And be not afraid of them that kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell (Gehenna--SGD).

Again, Jesus spoke of Gehenna consistently with imminent national judgment on Israel. The whole body of a Jew would be cast into the imminent fiery national judgment of which John spoke.

Lk. 12.4-5

This is the fifth time Jesus used Gehenna, when he said:

And I say unto you my friends, Be not afraid of them that kill the body, and after that have no more that they can do. But I will warn you whom ye shall fear: Fear him, who after he hath killed, hath power to cast into hell (Gehenna-SGD): yea, I say unto you, Fear him.

Here Jesus taught the same thing John taught in Mt. 3.10-12, that only a divine being has the power to cast someone into unquenchable fire. A human can kill you. A divine being can imminently bring an unstoppable national judgment in which a divinely ordained religion would be brought to an end. Notice also that Jesus said that one would be cast into Gehenna after he has been killed (Lk. 12.4-5) and that God can destroy both the soul and body in Gehenna.

Notice also in verse 49 that Jesus said:

I came to cast fire upon the earth; and what do I desire, if it is already kindled?

The fiery judgment of which Jesus spoke was not far off in time and place, but imminent and earthly. In verse 56, Jesus noted that the judgment of which he spoke was imminent, for he said:

Ye hypocrites, ye know how to interpret the face of the earth and the heaven; but how is it that ye know not how to interpret this time?

The word for earth in both these verses is gen, the standard word for land or ground, not necessarily the planet, which we might think. Thayer defined the word as:

1. arable land, 2. the ground, the earth as a standing place, 3. land, as opposed to sea or water, 4. the earth as a whole, the world. (p. 114)

This is the word used in Mt. 2.6 (the land of Judea), Mt. 2.20 (the land of Israel), Mt. 10.15 (the land of Sodom and Gomorrah), Mt. 11.24 (the land of Sodom), Mt. 14.34 (the land of Gennesaret), Jn. 3.22 (the land of Judea), Ac. 7.3 (into the land which I shall show thee), Ac. 7.6 (seed should sojourn in a strange land), Ac. 7.11 (a dearth over all the land of Egypt), etc. Thus, Jesus again spoke of imminent fiery destruction on the land of Israel, just as Malachi and John the Baptist said he would announce.
Mt. 18.9, Mk. 9.43-45

These verses contain the sixth, seventh, eight, and ninth times Jesus used the word Gehenna. These are verses like Mt. 5.29-30, which speak of it being better to enter life or the kingdom without some members of one's body rather than going into Gehenna with a whole body. However, we want to pay special attention to Mark's account, because in it, Jesus further described Gehenna:

And if thy hand cause thee to stumble, cut it off: it is good for thee to enter into life maimed, rather than having thy two hands to go into hell, into the unquenchable fire .

Notice that Jesus specifically said what's coming in Gehenna-unquenchable fire. John the Baptist said he would baptize with unquenchable fire, not necessarily fire that would burn unendingly, but which would not be quenched. Unquenchable fire is unstoppable! It's fiery destruction brought about by a divine being. In Ezk. 20.47-48, God promised such a national judgment on Judah:

mr.smiley
One early Christian philosopher called Hell "A improving myth".

In one Nag Hammadi text Jesus is stated as saying that their is a Hell,but no one will spend eternity their.He claims they will all be released at the end of time due to Gods love.It's easy to see why Revelations would be chosen as the Bibles final book because it says not everyone will be redeemed.It would be crazy for the church to say otherwise.

Most myths about a christian hell predate Christianity.

finti
just like how it is now then

debbiejo
I connect.. big grin And don't you think that if there was a hell and I was wrong that I would be prodded and feel convicted by God? And here's an interesting thought...(OH..I love it when I do), Would God now send me to hell for not believing in it anymore?

If yes, then...then..I'm screwed.

Comic Book
I heard if you break atleast 2 of the 10 commandments, you go straight to hell.

darth_royke
where do you go if you break all of them? is there a bonus prize?

debbiejo
According to the Bible you are forgiven if you try not to repeat them again.

Shakyamunison
Originally posted by darth_royke
where do you go if you break all of them? is there a bonus prize?

Ya, you get elected to a political office. laughing

The truth is: hell is right hear on Earth, but so is Heaven, so the choice is yours.

darth_royke
i was always told that god forgives everybody..... so why is there even a hell?

heaven and hell are indeed on this earth... and they're actually inside you. if you're happy, then you are in heaven. if you're depressed, then its hell. i've been to hell more than heaven but i'm with the angels right nowwink

Gryn Jabar
If you break ONE of the commandments you go to hell. That's why you need JESUS.

Shakyamunison
Originally posted by darth_royke
i was always told that god forgives everybody..... so why is there even a hell?

heaven and hell are indeed on this earth... and they're actually inside you. if you're happy, then you are in heaven. if you're depressed, then its hell. i've been to hell more than heaven but i'm with the angels right nowwink

Do you know about the other 8 worlds?

10. Hell
9. Hunger
8. Animality
7. Anger
6. Heaven
5. Humanity
4. Learning
3. Realization
2. Bodhisattva
1. Buddhahood

http://www.buddhistinformation.com/10_worlds.htm

Spelljammer
It would make more sense for every sin commited results in you drawing closer to the 9th layer of hell starting with Purgatory..

debbiejo
Originally posted by darth_royke
i was always told that god forgives everybody..... so why is there even a hell?

heaven and hell are indeed on this earth... and they're actually inside you. if you're happy, then you are in heaven. if you're depressed, then its hell. i've been to hell more than heaven but i'm with the angels right nowwink

Yeah...It's kinda how I view it.....Sort of.

yerssot
if you're roman-catholic you can buy your way out with indulgences wink

Gryn Jabar
I thought they stopped that 600 years ago because Luther ended up reforming the whole thing and causing them to lose Germany, Sweden, etc.

debbiejo
Not really...It's called the "mass Today"....You pay money to the church and have a priest preform a mass and have your dead relatives prayed out of purgatory....

leana marie
thats creepy... if they deverved to be in hell they shouldnt be taken out...

sonnet
Originally posted by debbiejo
Not really...It's called the "mass Today"....You pay money to the church and have a priest preform a mass and have your dead relatives prayed out of purgatory....
It is these types of practises and rituals performed by the Roman Catholic Church that has proofed them to be not The Church but just yet another church that has twisted God's word into making money for themselves. No where in the Bible is it written that you can pay your way into heaven or that of a deceased person. Money cannot beven buy forgiveness from God. I still fail to see how people can claim that the Catholic church has changed the Bible and started Christiandom for they are themselves in contradiction of the Bible.

debbiejo
Originally posted by sonnet
It is these types of practises and rituals performed by the Roman Catholic Church that has proofed them to be not The Church but just yet another church that has twisted God's word into making money for themselves. No where in the Bible is it written that you can pay your way into heaven or that of a deceased person. Money cannot beven buy forgiveness from God. I still fail to see how people can claim that the Catholic church has changed the Bible and started Christiandom for they are themselves in contradiction of the Bible.

Yep...with the Mass thing...You generally have to have many many Masses for the one person.....My grandmother a Roman Catholic would give for a mass all the time for my deceased grandfather and my cousin....such a scam.

Though I have to say that many Protestant churches also twist scripture to fit their denomination...That's why so many pastors quit...They realized that they are forced to follow doctrine instead of what scripture teaches..

Spelljammer
And who says those in hell can't be redeemed? Hell is just a lower dimension, it relates well to Buddhism that the worse you are as a person, the worse your world is going to be..

This doesn't mean those who sin are doomed forever to torment and punishment. But alot of times they choose to be. You underestimate the power of pride and arrogance. Before honor, comes humility..

sonnet
Originally posted by debbiejo
Yep...with the Mass thing...You generally have to have many many Masses for the one person.....My grandmother a Roman Catholic would give for a mass all the time for my deceased grandfather and my cousin....such a scam.

Though I have to say that many Protestant churches also twist scripture to fit their denomination...That's why so many pastors quit...They realized that they are forced to follow doctrine instead of what scripture teaches..
Exactly!!! That is why I have said so many times already that I am not a follower of a church but of the scriptures. Church for me is a place to worship ( which I also do at home) and to have fellowship with other christians. There are many churches and preachers who became rich from twisting scripture even amidst having poor people in their churches. If the pastor fails to follow scripture then the church will fail the people, thats how I see it.

debbiejo
Originally posted by sonnet
Exactly!!! That is why I have said so many times already that I am not a follower of a church but of the scriptures. Church for me is a place to worship ( which I also do at home) and to have fellowship with other christians. There are many churches and preachers who became rich from twisting scripture even amidst having poor people in their churches. If the pastor fails to follow scripture then the church will fail the people, thats how I see it.

What denomination are you????...If it's ok to ask....Only cause I want to know where you're coming from.....ok?

sonnet
Originally posted by debbiejo
What denomination are you????...If it's ok to ask....Only cause I want to know where you're coming from.....ok?
I am going to a pentacostle church. There are many different ones in South Africa, some with very weird "rituals" and beliefs which are not scriptural. I have been to many different churches but left because the pastors all had this "vision" for their churches which involved people giving alot of money and every Sunday they preached about money and how God wants us to sow (money) into His vision for the church. And then the pastor got a new car and a new house and went on expensive vacations..... get the picture??

debbiejo
^ yep, been there......but do you believe that once someone leaves the faith that they will not enter heaven?...Or once saved always saved....just curious?

sonnet
Originally posted by debbiejo
^ yep, been there......but do you believe that once someone leaves the faith that they will not enter heaven?...Or once saved always saved....just curious?
I believe what is written in the scriptures and that is that the only way to the Father is throught His son Jesus.
If you renounce your faith in Jesus as the Saviour then according to scripture you cannot be with the Father or enter heaven. Does this mean that if you walk away now you are lost forever? No because it is how you stand before God in the day of His judgement that will determine your fate/destination. Which also means that once saved not always saved for the Bible says that near the end many will turn their back on the faith because of the lies and deceptions of the world.

finti
why?

debbiejo
Originally posted by sonnet
Bible says that near the end many will turn their back on the faith because of the lies and deceptions of the world.

Scripture as I've read it says that near the end many will depart from the faith....Which the Catholic church took as the Protestant movement The protestants thought of the Roman ..Catholic church as the Antichrist...So, the Catholic church countered that the breaking away from the faith was a future event...It's documented...

Then Darby and Scholfield (Scholfield Bible) came out with dispensation isms which are god saves different people in history or the future, like the Jews in different ways....example...Noah's day, Abraham's, time, Jesus time, future time for the Jews....Different ways to be saved depending on what part of time you lived in and how god communicated with you.

Things have been so manipulated by man....even how the scriptures were picked and placed together.

sonnet
Originally posted by debbiejo
Scripture as I've read it says that near the end many will depart from the faith....Which the Catholic church took as the Protestant movement The protestants thought of the Roman ..Catholic church as the Antichrist...So, the Catholic church countered that the breaking away from the faith was a future event...It's documented...

Then Darby and Scholfield (Scholfield Bible) came out with dispensation isms which are god saves different people in history or the future, like the Jews in different ways....example...Noah's day, Abraham's, time, Jesus time, future time for the Jews....Different ways to be saved depending on what part of time you lived in and how god communicated with you.

Things have been so manipulated by man....even how the scriptures were picked and placed together.
The faith that the Bible talks about here has nothing to to with any church, but the faith in Jesus as the Saviour and son of God. It says people will depart from that. These issues have also been adressed in the OT, so the church had not coincidently written this into the Bible. There are many scriptures about this in the NT also, it also says that the love, of the people, for God will cool down and that they will harden their harts towards God and His word, that they will follow the lies of the world (Satan) . There are a few scriptures in Psalms as well. And yes these things are happening now and it is because we are near the end time. Watch closely what is happening and is going to be in Israel in the next few years, and read the prophesies concerning these matters in Isaiah and Jeremiah but also the other prophetic books. Many has already been fulfilled even in our time and many are about to be fulfilled.

sonnet
Originally posted by finti
why?
Answered that question already.

debbiejo
Originally posted by sonnet
The faith that the Bible talks about here has nothing to to with any church, but the faith in Jesus as the Saviour and son of God. It says people will depart from that. These issues have also been adressed in the OT, so the church had not coincidently written this into the Bible. There are many scriptures about this in the NT also, it also says that the love, of the people, for God will cool down and that they will harden their harts towards God and His word, that they will follow the lies of the world (Satan) . There are a few scriptures in Psalms as well. And yes these things are happening now and it is because we are near the end time. Watch closely what is happening and is going to be in Israel in the next few years, and read the prophesies concerning these matters in Isaiah and Jeremiah but also the other prophetic books. Many has already been fulfilled even in our time and many are about to be fulfilled. Well the Temple being build isn't gonna happen..The dome of the Rock is there...and that's supposed to happen before any tribulation.....The thing with Israel has been happening for ever....It's historical about rebuilding the Temple...and it was, then destroyed again... Also is says that love for god will grow cold, I haven't seen that..I've seen a deeper growth in what one could call god/Spirit or higher type power...A real truth. ...There is also a discrepancy in the NT...first it says that god will turn the children's hearts against their parents....then in another place it says it will turn their hearts towards their parents...Hmmm....It wasn't good editing..

finti
really????, well cause I asked you before about it and then you came back with

so why pentacostle, I thought you didnt need to visit churches, you got what you needed form the bible........or was that just hogwash rambeling do do

Sir Mist
Originally posted by Comic Book
I heard if you break atleast 2 of the 10 commandments, you go straight to hell.

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y12/noobbasher/hell.jpg

Sorry, couldnt resist laughing out loud

debbiejo
Temple, temple temple....according to scripture..there will be no "sacrafices to cease" if there isn't a temple....and where is it supposed to be????...Where the Dome of the rock is!!!!!!.....WON'T NEVER EVER HAPPEN....That means no peace treaty to break in the middle of the 7 year tribulation....means no antichrist to make a peace treaty.....Nope!!!

sonnet
Originally posted by debbiejo
Well the Temple being build isn't gonna happen..The dome of the Rock is there...and that's supposed to happen before any tribulation.....The thing with Israel has been happening for ever....It's historical about rebuilding the Temple...and it was, then destroyed again... Also is says that love for god will grow cold, I haven't seen that..I've seen a deeper growth in what one could call god/Spirit or higher type power...A real truth. ...There is also a discrepancy in the NT...first it says that god will turn the children's hearts against their parents....then in another place it says it will turn their hearts towards their parents...Hmmm....It wasn't good editing..
If the building of the Temple is all you know about Israel and the signs surrounding them then I suggest you do yourself a favour and read the prohpetic books again. That is why many people fail to see because they do not know about all the prophesies. The love for God - that is Yaweh, the God of Israel, the God of the Bible. The world has convinced themselves that all the "gods" are one and the same and that is the biggest lie of all. The love for the one and only true God will grow cold and people will believe in a divine being who is to everybody who they want it to be. It looks like more people are becoming "spiritual" because of this misconception and that is why so many will in the end say "Lord, Lord...." and they will be told "I do not know you" because they worshipped the idea of God that was made acceptable by the world. In the end yes , it says children will turn against parents and so on and it will be because of what I just said. Just like today friends and familie and nations are turning against each. I do not recall the scripture about turning their hearts towards their parents. If you can give that I can comment on that.

sonnet
Originally posted by finti
really????, well cause I asked you before about it and then you came back with

so why pentacostle, I thought you didnt need to visit churches, you got what you needed form the bible........or was that just hogwash rambeling do do
Once again you twist my words around. I said I am not bound or dependant for my faith on any specefic denomination. I found a church which happens to be a pentacostle church which I visit often for the reasons I already gave Debbiejo. You are welcome to read that again. I also said that the Bible teaches all we need to grow spiritually and to live in God's will. To me, I said, the church is a place to be with other christians and to worship God with them. I will not lose my faith if I do no go to a church because the word of God is the daily bread to my spirit and soul. Please pay attention when you read next time.

debbiejo
Originally posted by sonnet
If the building of the Temple is all you know about Israel and the signs surrounding them then I suggest you do yourself a favour and read the prohpetic books again. That is why many people fail to see because they do not know about all the prophesies. The love for God - that is Yaweh, the God of Israel, the God of the Bible. The world has convinced themselves that all the "gods" are one and the same and that is the biggest lie of all. The love for the one and only true God will grow cold and people will believe in a divine being who is to everybody who they want it to be. It looks like more people are becoming "spiritual" because of this misconception and that is why so many will in the end say "Lord, Lord...." and they will be told "I do not know you" because they worshipped the idea of God that was made acceptable by the world. In the end yes , it says children will turn against parents and so on and it will be because of what I just said. Just like today friends and familie and nations are turning against each. I do not recall the scripture about turning their hearts towards their parents. If you can give that I can comment on that. I've read the prophet books so many times even I could write a movie!!!!

But it all seems to revolve around the antichrist signing a peace agreement, which in the middle of the week (meaning 7 years), that he will cause the sacrifices to end.....Of course everyones waiting for that ol temple to be built so the sacrifices can be started again....So, are you saying that there will be no agreement signed by this antichrist and no sacrifices that will be put too an end...thus no temple?

Also the nation against nation has been ever in history...only weapons have changed....

crimsonphoenix
question.
Can someone name all the 10 commandments? I can only think of like 2.

debbiejo
The Catholic differs from The King James Bible
First Commandment
I, the LORD, am your God...You shall not have other gods besides me.
First Commandment
I am the LORD thy God...Thou shalt have no other gods before me.

Second Commandment
You shall not take the name of the LORD, your God, in vain.
Second Commandment
Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth. Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them.

Third Commandment
Remember to keep holy the sabbath day.
Third Commandment
Thou shalt not take the name of the LORD thy God in vain.

Fourth Commandment
Honor your father and your mother.
Fourth Commandment
Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.

Fifth Commandment
You shall not kill.
Fifth Commandment
Honor thy father and thy mother.

Sixth Commandment
You shall not commit adultery.
Sixth Commandment
Thou shalt not kill.

Seventh Commandment
You shall not steal.
Seventh Commandment
Thou shalt not commit adultery.

Eighth Commandment
You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.
Eighth Commandment
Thou shalt not steal.

Ninth Commandment
You shall not covet your neighbor's wife.
Ninth Commandment
Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour.

Tenth Commandment
You shall not covet your neighbor's house.
Tenth Commandment
Thou shalt not covet.

The Catholic 10 takes out any reference to graven images.

crimsonphoenix
Originally posted by debbiejo
The Catholic differs from The King James Bible
First Commandment
I, the LORD, am your God...You shall not have other gods besides me.
First Commandment
I am the LORD thy God...Thou shalt have no other gods before me.

Second Commandment
You shall not take the name of the LORD, your God, in vain.
Second Commandment
Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth. Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them.

Third Commandment
Remember to keep holy the sabbath day.
Third Commandment
Thou shalt not take the name of the LORD thy God in vain.

Fourth Commandment
Honor your father and your mother.
Fourth Commandment
Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.

Fifth Commandment
You shall not kill.
Fifth Commandment
Honor thy father and thy mother.

Sixth Commandment
You shall not commit adultery.
Sixth Commandment
Thou shalt not kill.

Seventh Commandment
You shall not steal.
Seventh Commandment
Thou shalt not commit adultery.

Eighth Commandment
You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.
Eighth Commandment
Thou shalt not steal.

Ninth Commandment
You shall not covet your neighbor's wife.
Ninth Commandment
Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour.

Tenth Commandment
You shall not covet your neighbor's house.
Tenth Commandment
Thou shalt not covet.

The Catholic 10 takes out any reference to graven images.





Damn i committed 2....... well actually 2 1/2 cuz i honor my mom but not my father...... arrrgggggg hell im going to go ( if there such a thing)

And thank you by the way......

debbiejo
Originally posted by crimsonphoenix
Damn i committed 2....... well actually 2 1/2 cuz i honor my mom but not my father...... arrrgggggg hell im going to go ( if there such a thing)

And thank you by the way......

Yep....you're doomed!!!!

Here you go....jump in with the rest.......

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=354302&pagenumber=10#post4949460


The look whos in Hell thread...^^^^^^

crimsonphoenix
thank you again.......now i can see who im going to spend my days with while im down there..lol

sonnet
Originally posted by debbiejo
I've read the prophet books so many times even I could write a movie!!!!

But it all seems to revolve around the antichrist signing a peace agreement, which in the middle of the week (meaning 7 years), that he will cause the sacrifices to end.....Of course everyones waiting for that ol temple to be built so the sacrifices can be started again....So, are you saying that there will be no agreement signed by this antichrist and no sacrifices that will be put too an end...thus no temple?

Also the nation against nation has been ever in history...only weapons have changed....
You keep quoting the "popular" ones. All of the prophecies will be fulfilled even the one about the temple. The history of Israel goes back further that 2000 yearsBC. Israel was destroyed by the Romans in 70 AD. At that time the Jews were scattered throughout the whole earth. In 1948 after about 1900 years Israel was declared a sovereign nation and reestablished in the promised land.Then in 1967 the Jew took Jerusalem back, a fulfillment of prophecies written hundreds of years earlier. In Hosea you can read alot about Israel also including the massacre of Jews by nations (Germany for instance) as it speaks of their bodies that will lie in masses im the streets- this brings up memories of photos of dead Jews during the reign of Hitler. On of the last signs is that God's people, meaning the Jewish nation that once forsake His son Jesus, will recognise him as the Saviour. It speaks of the people returning to their Land, and many more. Even Daniel is full of accurate prophecies about Israel's history and even Alexandre the Great that was fulfilled. The fulfilment of prophecies is authentication of God's word. In 2 Peter1:20,21 we read that no prophecies comes from man's interpretation or the will of man but from God as the Holy Spirit inspired them to speak.

mysparrow
Originally posted by debbiejo
Temple, temple temple....according to scripture..there will be no "sacrafices to cease" if there isn't a temple....and where is it supposed to be????...Where the Dome of the rock is!!!!!!.....WON'T NEVER EVER HAPPEN....That means no peace treaty to break in the middle of the 7 year tribulation....means no antichrist to make a peace treaty.....Nope!!!

somebody knows something then because all the temple artifacts have been made already , and all that is lacking is the ashes from the pure red heifer , which they have been paying to have cloned , and havent gotten a pure one yet , but thats all they a re waiting on, i got this from a article in israel . Granted they are still arguing over the temple area but the antichrist to come is supposed to be able to nake the treaty happen , so some kind of consolation would be given to either party that would relinquish for peace . im watching to see what happens over the next years.

debbiejo
Originally posted by sonnet
.Then in 1967 the Jew took Jerusalem back, a fulfillment of prophecies written hundreds of years earlier.

Yeah, that's the scripture that has to do with the fig tree mentioned in scripture...fig tree is only interrupted as Israel....

Originally posted by sonnet
Even Daniel is full of accurate prophecies about Israel's history and even Alexandre the Great that was fulfilled.

The huge statue in the dream...meaning different kingdoms, and the the feet were made of clay and iron, meaning nations that were part weak and strong...which some feel that is speaking of our time in history....There are other interpretations of that also...more historical ones.

Same as with the Beast with the 7 heads, 10 horns and one was different then the rest, and that horn spoke as a man and said blasphemous things...that some consider to be a different type kingdom (Pope or false religion)...Also the kingdom sat on 7 hills...some think that is Rome.


And then there is the one world government, one world currency(considered by some to do with the mark of the beast), one world religion instill by the Antichrist....But these are only interpretations of some scripture...No where have I read any of these things, but it is morning here...maybe I have brain fog... big grin

I mean the one world gov., currency, and religion is no where in scripture...And the beheadings....well, who would behead anyone today?.....It's historical...

The scriptures that say their skin melted off their bodies and eyes melted in their sockets....some mean it to say..Nuclear war...

debbiejo
Originally posted by mysparrow
somebody knows something then because all the temple artifacts have been made already , and all that is lacking is the ashes from the pure red heifer , which they have been paying to have cloned , and havent gotten a pure one yet , but thats all they a re waiting on, i got this from a article in israel . Granted they are still arguing over the temple area but the antichrist to come is supposed to be able to nake the treaty happen , so some kind of consolation would be given to either party that would relinquish for peace . im watching to see what happens over the next years.

They been looking for that Red Heifer for ever...but still for naught, if no temple..... big grin

If you look at the verses that have to do with that peace treaty, you'll see it say "CONFIRM" a treaty...not "MAKE" a peace treaty...It was also historical...Confirm means something that was already in place, but is now confirmed.

finti
I twist your words around??? dont blame me for your inconsistency in your replies.

you said you visited a pentacosle church then you went on about coruptness of churches you visited, no reason whatsoever for why you chose the pentacostle one please feel free to point out where YOUR reasons for attending the pentacostle is

sonnet
Originally posted by finti
you said you visited a pentacosle church then you went on about coruptness of churches you visited, no reason whatsoever for why you chose the pentacostle one please feel free to point out where YOUR reasons for attending the pentacostle is
And you assumed I only visited pentacostle churches all my life? Or do you also assume that if one pastor of a church is corrupt, then all are corrupt. I was explaining to her why I left a a specific church, not why I joined the other one. I do recall giving you my reason in a quote not long ago probably on this or the previous page.

finti
no IF YOU READ WHAT I WROTE you would have seen I refered to your post, in that post you mentioned you attended a pentacostle church what else churches you visited you didnt say, so if you did visit other denominations or were part of them or not I dont know.
no you just said that you allready gave your reason earlier which was the post I quoted, you never said why this was your choice though

sonnet
Originally posted by sonnet
Exactly!!! That is why I have said so many times already that I am not a follower of a church but of the scriptures. Church for me is a place to worship ( which I also do at home) and to have fellowship with other christians. Church for me is a place to worship( which I also do at home ) and to have fellowship with other christians. See I highlighted it for you. This is why I go to church, regardless of the denomination.

finti
so if it is for fellowship why does it matter what the pastor does and how nice his car is

debbiejo
The fellowship is taken from Pauls teachings...A gnostic.

However Sonnet, do you base your belief on Acts 2:38?.....the day of Pentecost?...And revolves around the Holy Spirit?..

that you must be baptised in Jesus name to receive the Holy Spirit?

sonnet
Originally posted by finti
so if it is for fellowship why does it matter what the pastor does and how nice his car is
Why are you so interested in why I go to church? To you it is a waste of time. And right now you are wasting my time trying to set me up with trick questions.

sonnet
Originally posted by debbiejo
The fellowship is taken from Pauls teachings...A gnostic.

However Sonnet, do you base your belief on Acts 2:38?.....the day of Pentecost?...And revolves around the Holy Spirit?..

that you must be baptised in Jesus name to receive the Holy Spirit?
No I believe all of the scriptures and that is what my belief is based on. Jesus spoke to Nicodemus and told him about the being born again, from water and the spirit. The Bible says that when we are reborn our spirits are reborn (some people use renewed). We no longer have the spirit of the world. Babtism of the Holy Spirit is different and can only happen after you are born again, that is were many people speak in tongs. It is a manifestation of God through the Holy Spirit in a human being. John the babtist also spoke of the Holy spirit when he said " I babtise with water, ....but He(Jesus) will babtise with the Holy Spirit (also spoken of as fire in many scriptures).

debbiejo
Originally posted by sonnet
. Babtism of the Holy Spirit is different and can only happen after you are born again, that is were many people speak in tongs. It is a manifestation of God through the Holy Spirit in a human being. John the babtist also spoke of the Holy spirit when he said " I babtise with water, ....but He(Jesus) will babtise with the Holy Spirit (also spoken of as fire in many scriptures).

Is speaking in tongues a sign of having the holy spirit then?

finti
why are you so reluctant to answer?.......and there aint no trick question here unless you are paranoid

Shakyamunison
Originally posted by finti
why are you so reluctant to answer?.......and there aint no trick question here unless you are paranoid

What do you mean by that? confused

laughing

sonnet
Originally posted by debbiejo
Is speaking in tongues a sign of having the holy spirit then? The Bible says that through the Holy Spirit we have all received different gifts of the Spirit, some prophecy, some healing through the laying on of hands, some interpretation of prophecy and some speaking in other (heavenly) tongs. The gifts can only work when the Holy Spirit works(manifests) through you or annoints you. There are people who speak in tongs once or twice and then there are people who speak in tongs every day because that is the specific gift they received through the babtism. The Bible says that speaking in tongs are a sign, of the Holy Sprit working in us, unto the unbelievers. I Cor 14:22, 1 Cor 12:1-11 and 1 Cor 14:2,14

sonnet
Originally posted by finti
why are you so reluctant to answer?.......and there aint no trick question here unless you are paranoid
No, just extremely bored.

debbiejo
Originally posted by sonnet
The Bible says that through the Holy Spirit we have all received different gifts of the Spirit, some prophecy, some healing through the laying on of hands, some interpretation of prophecy and some speaking in other (heavenly) tongs. The gifts can only work when the Holy Spirit works(manifests) through you or annoints you. There are people who speak in tongs once or twice and then there are people who speak in tongs every day because that is the specific gift they received through the babtism. The Bible says that speaking in tongs are a sign, of the Holy Sprit working in us, unto the unbelievers. I Cor 14:22, 1 Cor 12:1-11 and 1 Cor 14:2,14

And my gifts are Knowledge, and mercy...Hmmmmm...yet didn't lose them.....
big grin

Shakyamunison
Originally posted by sonnet
The Bible says that through the Holy Spirit we have all received different gifts of the Spirit, some prophecy, some healing through the laying on of hands, some interpretation of prophecy and some speaking in other (heavenly) tongs. The gifts can only work when the Holy Spirit works(manifests) through you or annoints you. There are people who speak in tongs once or twice and then there are people who speak in tongs every day because that is the specific gift they received through the babtism. The Bible says that speaking in tongs are a sign, of the Holy Sprit working in us, unto the unbelievers. I Cor 14:22, 1 Cor 12:1-11 and 1 Cor 14:2,14

The bible is just a book. There have been so many translations and changes to the bible that the original intent has been lost. It is up to us now to interpret the words. Please try not to hurt other people when you interpret.

debbiejo
You know the whole speaking in tongues is taken out of context in that Bible story now........It was meant at the time that many different languages lived together, so they were speaking in the different languages so that the other nationalities could understand...THAT'S IT!

Today, it would make NO sense because if you are in an ALL ENGLISH speaking church, why mess it up with CONFUSION (confusion is from the devil remember?).....Now lets say there was one German family in that congregation visiting...well then they might hear it in German, or someone might have a message spoken in German.......Otherwise someone speaking including the interrupter would have no idea what was really, if anything real at all.....And it would confuse the congregation...So, whos to say what's being said....confusion.....

sonnet
Originally posted by debbiejo
You know the whole speaking in tongues is taken out of context in that Bible story now........It was meant at the time that many different languages lived together, so they were speaking in the different languages so that the other nationalities could understand...THAT'S IT!


1 Cor 14:2 "For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not to men, but unto God.... ,
It is also called (in scripture) the tongues of angels.

:14 For if I pray in an unknown tongue my spirit prayeth, but my understanding is unfruitful.

: 13 Wherefor let him that speaketh in an unknown tongue pray that he may interpret. (Thus interpretation also comes through the spirit and not human understanding - it is also a spiritual gift, the gift of interpretation.)

Acts 2:4 And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit, and began to speak with other tongues as the Spirit gave them utterance. According to these scriptures the Holy Sprirt gave these men the ability to speak in different human languages so that all gathered there could understand the gospel.
There is thus clearly a difference between a unknown tongue (as in scriptures in book of Corinthians) and other tongues(languages) as used in Acts.

When people speak in tongues in a church the Bible says that person' spirit is speaking to God. It is of no relevance to other people. When a person prophecy in a unknown tongue then the Holy Spirit will give the interpretation through the spirit of either that person or another with the gift so that the message is known to all in the church. This is a very regular occurance in pentacostle churches and is no cause of chaos because we know what is going on.

debbiejo
Originally posted by sonnet
1 Cor 14:2 "For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not to men, but unto God.... ,
It is also called (in scripture) the tongues of angels.

:.

According to scripture "what are angels?".....Messengers of god.....Is god the author of confusion?


Like I said before in an all English speaking church.....what good would it do to speak such confusion...leaving the conjuration wondering????....

I have been in many pentecostal churches....and believe me.....Theres been many false statements made...the only ones that are true....are only the ones that are speaking nothing but scripture,... and warnings....And who determines where that spirit is coming from?......There are many things seen and unseen, if you are waiting for something seen, you just might get it, not matter where that spirit comes from....Funny how I lived my whole life in that type of church.....the speaking in tongues, I've heard it so many times, I can do it myself....memorized it that it was so frequent.....What purpose would god give for that being a church that has the truth....?????....Why not in any language but the same ol one alway used.....Sounds Like something similar to Arabic, but not...

Besides Jesus spoke Aramaic......but still, it's all out of context...it's history...If infact it is true.

sonnet
Originally posted by debbiejo
According to scripture "what are angels?".....Messengers of god.....Is god the author of confusion?


Like I said before in an all English speaking church.....what good would it do to speak such confusion...leaving the conjuration wondering????....

I have been in many pentecostal churches....and believe me.....Theres been many false statements made...the only ones that are true....are only the ones that are speaking nothing but scripture,... and warnings....
Angels are created by God. According to scripture angels are created to do specific tasks, some worship, some bring messages, it is all in the scriptures. There is a very clear order within the ranks of the angels.
If you have the knowledge (available from scripture) about the working of the Holy Spirit through us then you will not be left wondering even in a all German speaking church.
As for interpretation and even prophesy, the Bible says that we must listen and then compare it to what is written in God's word for He will not give any prophesy or interpretation that is controrary to what is written in his word. For example is some one should stand up and speak in tongues and the interpretation tells the people to build a large statue of God then we will know,according to scripture that the interpretation is false and not from the Spirit for the Bible says that we should not make any images of God. 1 Cor 14 tells us that the purpose of speaking in tongues and prophesy is for upliftment and comfort of the individual and the congregation.

debbiejo
It's gibberish....All sounds the same....can't even be translated by a translator when taped...Some churches give classes in talking in tongues...etc.....and you sure do like quoting from the Gnostic Paul don't you.....If the god of the Bible is all powerful, then why not do away with the utterances of such a thing of CONFUSION.....god isn't the author of CONFUSION.....Satan is.....

El_NINO
Here is something interesting then, if one of the 10 commandments states that you cannot kill, then how would you feel if you were at war right now?

Shakyamunison
Originally posted by El_NINO
Here is something interesting then, if one of the 10 commandments states that you cannot kill, then how would you feel if you were at war right now?

Good point!

The god of the Old Testament gave the Jews the 10 commandments, including do not kill. Then that same god tells the Jews to go into the land of the Cainnites (sp?) and kill everyone. So, this god will tell you what to do but then tell you to brake that rule.

El_NINO
I believe in Jesus and thats all you need to do, read a bit on him everyday or once a week thats all. You dont need to go to church why because they take your money. All you need in order to go into heaven is the faith of a mustard seed and believe. If you pick up the bible you are believing because your reading it.

Shakyamunison
Originally posted by El_NINO
I believe in Jesus and thats all you need to do, read a bit on him everyday or once a week thats all. You dont need to go to church why because they take your money. All you need in order to go into heaven is the faith of a mustard seed and believe. If you pick up the bible you are believing because your reading it.

Take one more step. You don't need to read the bible, cause there are a lot of good to great holy books out there. I read the Lotus Sutra and the Writings of Nichiren Daishonin.

http://www.sgi-usa.org/buddhism/bofnd.html

finti
chanting spam

debbiejo
laughing out loud

sonnet
Originally posted by debbiejo
It's gibberish....All sounds the same....can't even be translated by a translator when taped...Some churches give classes in talking in tongues...etc.....and you sure do like quoting from the Gnostic Paul don't you.....If the god of the Bible is all powerful, then why not do away with the utterances of such a thing of CONFUSION.....god isn't the author of CONFUSION.....Satan is.....
Speaking in tongues only happens through the working of the Holy Spirit and thus comes from God. It is when your spirit speaks to God. So why would God do away with a gift he bestows upon us? There are no confusion for the believers, those to whom this is relevant.
Yes some churches are clueless and think they can go beyond scripture and "teach" people the godly language. This is a offence to God. The Bible teaches us how this comes about. No class can make it authentic. Do not judge God by what people and churches do!!!!
In your opinion as a unbeliever Paul is a gnostic. There are no evidence of this in the Bible, on the contrary he clearly states his dedication of his life to Jesus, the son of God who died for his sins and was resurrected from the dead and now are in heaven. He was not a philosopher but taught and wrote by the inspiration from God through the Holy Spirit. This is evident in all of his writings.

sonnet
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Take one more step. You don't need to read the bible, cause there are a lot of good to great holy books out there. I read the Lotus Sutra and the Writings of Nichiren Daishonin.

http://www.sgi-usa.org/buddhism/bofnd.html
I know who wrote the Bible but not who wrote the ones you mentioned. So I'll rather stay with the Bible and fill my spirit with the word of God.

debbiejo
Originally posted by sonnet
Speaking in tongues only happens through the working of the Holy Spirit and thus comes from God. It is when your spirit speaks to God. So why would God do away with a gift he bestows upon us? There are no confusion for the believers, those to whom this is relevant.
.

It's not needed if the whole congragation is of one language...What would be the purpose of it?

Shakyamunison
Originally posted by sonnet
I know who wrote the Bible but not who wrote the ones you mentioned. So I'll rather stay with the Bible and fill my spirit with the word of God.

You don't know who wrote the bible, no one does.

finti
well we all know what they gonna answer they to that though..................the bible is the word of god........................bored

Shakyamunison

debbiejo

Shakyamunison
Originally posted by debbiejo
And put it in a pie.... big grin ....and you have to eat this pie, or you'll die...

It's called "Eternal die pie"...

Can I have some of that too?

FeceMan
Originally posted by Comic Book
I heard if you break atleast 2 of the 10 commandments, you go straight to hell.
You heard wrong.

Rogue Jedi
Originally posted by Game Over
I heard if you break atleast 2 of the 10 commandments, you go straight to hell.
it doesnt matter what you do in this life. you can be a serial killer, be on death row with your execution an hour away. if, for some reason, during that last hour, you discover god and beg forgiveness for all your sins, you are forgiven and you go to heaven. you have to really believe it and be sincere, turn your life over to god.

sonnet
Originally posted by debbiejo
It's not needed if the whole congragation is of one language...What would be the purpose of it?
You might not see the purpose of it, but God has a purpose for it ,that is why He gave it to us as a gift. Nothing in God's word is without purpose. You do not have to agree with it, but it still is there.

sonnet
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
You don't know who wrote the bible, no one does.
You may not know, but I do and so does everybody who believes in Jesus, the son of God, who is the Saviour. You cannot try to reason this out with your intelect because tnhe word of God is written for our spiritual growth and not our minds. You cannot believe that the Bible is the written word of God if your spirit has not been renewed by faith and salvation through Jesus Christ because that is when God's spirit starts to communicate and testifies with your spirit.

Shakyamunison
Originally posted by sonnet
You may not know, but I do and so does everybody who believes in Jesus, the son of God, who is the Saviour. You cannot try to reason this out with your intelect because tnhe word of God is written for our spiritual growth and not our minds. You cannot believe that the Bible is the written word of God if your spirit has not been renewed by faith and salvation through Jesus Christ because that is when God's spirit starts to communicate and testifies with your spirit.

I used to be a Christian and I know all of that Bullsh*t. I am not insulting you personally, but it is all a lie. What they tell you is rationalization. They don't want you to know the truth and they will keep it from you. OK, don't take my word for it, read the bible with an open mind. Read it from the beginning to the end and you will see that what the leaders in your church say is not what is in the bible. Please forgive me for making you mad, but I care, because I used to be there.

debbiejo
Originally posted by sonnet
You might not see the purpose of it, but God has a purpose for it ,that is why He gave it to us as a gift. Nothing in God's word is without purpose. You do not have to agree with it, but it still is there.

So, it serves no purpose for us at this time...unless you mean only to confuse people.

sonnet
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Read it from the beginning to the end and you will see that what the leaders in your church say is not what is in the bible. Please forgive me for making you mad, but I care, because I used to be there.
Exactly the point I made some time ago. Many church leaders does not preach what is in the Bible, but their version of it to serve their own purpose whether it be finances ect. That is why it does not make sense that the Bible was written by churches because it would be stupid to write something and then not keep in line with the writings. There are Catholic rituals, paying to be forgiven and even confession that is against what is written in the Bible. The Bible says that forgiveness from God is for free, so is salvation and no where does it say that you need to go through a priest to get forgiveness. The Bible says that Jesus intercedes for us with the Father when we pray. The Bible is not a lie because God's word are true. I receicved miraculous growth of a limb that was shorter that the other in a matter of seconds in front of many witnesses while being prayed for in the name of Jesus as we are instructed to do so in God's word. I would have been handicapped today because docters could not do much, if it was not the name of Jesus and my faith in the trueth of God's word. I know it is not a lie. I have seen many times how God has intervened in peoples lives and circumstances after they've put their faith in Him and Him only and held on to the promises in His word. My faith is strong not because of what people has told me but because I have been touched by God and the power of His word.

sonnet
Originally posted by debbiejo
So, it serves no purpose for us at this time...unless you mean only to confuse people.
Just because you think it does not serve any purpose does not make it so. God gives us the purpose in His word. Read it. God's purpose does not always make sence to our minds but that does not change His purpose or make it useless. Only if you do not believe then you will think of it this way.

debbiejo
^ I have read it....But the "Speaking in Tongues"..has no purpose for today...What would be the purpose?..God is beyond language.

Scoobless
Originally posted by debbiejo
The Catholic differs from The King James Bible
First Commandment
I, the LORD, am your God...You shall not have other gods besides me.
First Commandment
I am the LORD thy God...Thou shalt have no other gods before me.

Second Commandment
You shall not take the name of the LORD, your God, in vain.
Second Commandment
Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth. Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them.

Third Commandment
Remember to keep holy the sabbath day.
Third Commandment
Thou shalt not take the name of the LORD thy God in vain.

Fourth Commandment
Honor your father and your mother.
Fourth Commandment
Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.

Fifth Commandment
You shall not kill.
Fifth Commandment
Honor thy father and thy mother.

Sixth Commandment
You shall not commit adultery.
Sixth Commandment
Thou shalt not kill.

Seventh Commandment
You shall not steal.
Seventh Commandment
Thou shalt not commit adultery.

Eighth Commandment
You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.
Eighth Commandment
Thou shalt not steal.

Ninth Commandment
You shall not covet your neighbor's wife.
Ninth Commandment
Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour.

Tenth Commandment
You shall not covet your neighbor's house.
Tenth Commandment
Thou shalt not covet.

The Catholic 10 takes out any reference to graven images.

I was about to ask someone to post them... i'm not too boned up on my religious propaganda

big grin

coveting my neighbour's wife or house isn't really something i can help.... i either covet her or i don't.... not really a matter of choice

JesusIsAlive
Originally posted by XxoooxX
Cristians I have a question. What does someone need to do to go to hell like inorder for god to send someone to hell?

Just be born (we are all born sinners and in need of the Savior Jesus Christ to save us from our sins). If you do not confess Jesus as your Lord and, repent of your sins, and believe in your heart that God has raised Jesus from the dead you will go to Hell. We are all destined for Hell apart from Christ. Jesus wants to be your Savior (and anyone else who is reading this post) so that He can save you from Hell. Let Jesus save you. Ask Jesus to save you from your sins in your own way and I promise (guarantee) that He will give you eternal life and peace that passes all understanding.

Imperial_Samura
Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
Just be born (we are all born sinners and in need of the Savior Jesus Christ to save us from our sins).

Which is perfectly just and fair when one considers free will and all that. Oh wait, not it isn't.



I hope when I have committed my fiftieth murder and I am bought before the judge that all I will have to say is "I am really sorry" and I will escape a jail sentence, even more then that he will give me a big mansion as a reward for repenting.



So how will we understand it when we pass on? Do our souls get an understanding upgrade or something?

RocasAtoll
So JHY, did Ghandi go to Heaven? Did Confuscious?

JesusIsAlive
Originally posted by RocasAtoll
So JHY, did Ghandi go to Heaven? Did Confuscious? If they have asked Jesus Christ to save them and if they have repented of their sins then then yes I believe that they are in Heaven.

Lord Urizen
Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
Just be born (we are all born sinners and in need of the Savior Jesus Christ to save us from our sins). If you do not confess Jesus as your Lord and, repent of your sins, and believe in your heart that God has raised Jesus from the dead you will go to Hell. We are all destined for Hell apart from Christ. Jesus wants to be your Savior (and anyone else who is reading this post) so that He can save you from Hell. Let Jesus save you. Ask Jesus to save you from your sins in your own way and I promise (guarantee) that He will give you eternal life and peace that passes all understanding.

So simple existance renders you eligible for Hell ?

God sounds like a dictator to me.... sad

Lord Urizen
Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
If they have asked Jesus Christ to save them and if they have repented of their sins then then yes I believe that they are in Heaven.

So if Ghandi never asked for Christ' forgivness, then he is in Hell right now getting tortured for all eternity, beyond any sort of logical understanding, simply because he existed?

Do you see the lack of logic you always present?

lil bitchiness
Basically what it takes to go to hell, according to Christianity and Islam is to not believe in one of those. You believe in Christianity, off to Islam hell you go. You follow Islam, off to Christian Hell you go.

To qualify for Christian and Islamic hell, you can also be any other religion, or not religious at all.

JesusIsAlive
Logic:

Romans 6:23
For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.


And:


1 Corinthians 15:22
For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ all shall be made alive.


Therefore:


Romans 3:23
for all have sinned, and fall short of the glory of God


Because:


1 Corinthians 15:22
For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ all shall be made alive.

Translation: God says that the wages of sin is death. Everyone dies (or is subject to death ultimately); therefore, all people must of necessity be sinners because all die. That is perfectly logical. It didn't say that all people will eventually die just because. There is a reason why we die (and no it is not because of old age). The underlying reason we get old and die is called sin. Folks since sin is the reason that there is death, and we are all going to die, then that means that we are all sinners.

Romans 8:22
because the creation itself also will be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God. For we know that the whole creation groans and labors with birth pangs together until now.

Moreover, sin is the reason why there is death in nature as well. Adam's sin opened the door to the law of sin and death: a principle or law that impacts nature and other organisms. The Bible reveals that all of creation (i.e. nature) groans and will one day be delivered from the bondage of corruption (i.e. sin and death).

Shakyamunison
^Sin is not the reason for death. roll eyes (sarcastic) The need to make room for the next generation is the reason for death. Without death we would never evolve, and we would not be able to adapt.

ADarksideJedi
Originally posted by sonnet
If you reject Jesus as son of God and saviour then hell is were you will end up. Also when you blaspheme againt the Holy Spirit .When you have accepted Jesus and become born again (spiritually) you have to seek sanctification. But for a even better guide read the Bible. It will answer your questions.

Don't forget not sleeping with anyone before marriage and going to church on sundays and keep all ten laws!jm

Alliance
And shaving! Not having the proper candle arrangements! Wearing garmets made from two different kinds of threads, appreoaching the alter of god with imperfect sight. Looking at your wife whilst she is mensturating....

Marchello
*

***Nothing!

Adam and Eve sinned when they disobeyed God in and SIN entered into the world...and ALL of creation FELL. God then sentenced them to DEATH in : "In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, TILL THOU RETURN TO THE GROUND; for out of the ground wast thou taken: for DUST THOU ART, and UNTO DUST SHALT THOU RETURN."

But because God loved man, He PROMISED to send a REDEEMER and raised up a nation through whom the "seed" would come. That "seed" was Jesus Christ...the Kinsman REDEEMER of Israel who is God's "provision" for the salvation of the whole world: "And He is the propitiation (i.e., sacrifice) for our sins; and not for our's only, but also for the sins of the whole world" .

In answer to your question...one has to do NOTHING to go to HELL...for we are all born sinners on our way to Hell. God sent His Son Jesus Christ who took our sins upon Himself . He offers us salvation as a Gift ...FREE of CHARGE when we place our trust in His COMPLETED work at Calvary for us.

Now because salvation is a GIFT we must RECEIVE it to be saved...that is we must reach out in faith and receive the GIFT of God ..."For the wages of sin is death; but the GIFT of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord" .

Failure to ACCEPT God's PROVISION for our salvation in Jesus Christ will send you to Hell.

Marchello

debbiejo
Hell is NOW!............not later on in an imaginary place just as Jesus taught.

Shakyamunison
Originally posted by Marchello
*

***Nothing!

Adam and Eve sinned when they disobeyed God in and SIN entered into the world...and ALL of creation FELL. God then sentenced them to DEATH in : "In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, TILL THOU RETURN TO THE GROUND; for out of the ground wast thou taken: for DUST THOU ART, and UNTO DUST SHALT THOU RETURN."

But because God loved man, He PROMISED to send a REDEEMER and raised up a nation through whom the "seed" would come. That "seed" was Jesus Christ...the Kinsman REDEEMER of Israel who is God's "provision" for the salvation of the whole world: "And He is the propitiation (i.e., sacrifice) for our sins; and not for our's only, but also for the sins of the whole world" .

In answer to your question...one has to do NOTHING to go to HELL...for we are all born sinners on our way to Hell. God sent His Son Jesus Christ who took our sins upon Himself . He offers us salvation as a Gift ...FREE of CHARGE when we place our trust in His COMPLETED work at Calvary for us.

Now because salvation is a GIFT we must RECEIVE it to be saved...that is we must reach out in faith and receive the GIFT of God ..."For the wages of sin is death; but the GIFT of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord" .

Failure to ACCEPT God's PROVISION for our salvation in Jesus Christ will send you to Hell.

Marchello

You get all of your information from the bible, why do you believe the bible in the first place?

Mr. Sandman
All it takes is to see a boob before marriage.

Alliance
Originally posted by Marchello
Adam and Eve sinned when they disobeyed God in and SIN entered into the world...and ALL of creation FELL.

Besides from the hypothsis that you are insane...

Adam and eve sinned because they ate fruit from a tree that your God put there?

Why did God have to create this evil tree in the first place? Is god evil?

Marchello
*

***Not so. Skeptics like you try to dismiss the reality of Hell...and like to think that life as we know it couldn't get any worst...but the sufferings in this life will be heaven compared to the suffering in the next life for those who die in their sins. This life is the closest thing to Hell that Christians will ever know...and the closest thing to heaven that sinners will ever know.

The Bible refers to the fate of the UNSAVED with such fearful words as the following:
(1)"Shame and everlasting contempt."
(2)"Everlasting punishment."
(3)"Weeping and gnashing of teeth"
(4)"Fire unquenchable"
(5)"Indignation and wrath, tribulation and anquish"
(6)"Everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord"
(7)"Eternal fire...the blackness of darkness for ever"

Revelation 14:10,11 tells us the FINAL, ETERNAL DESTINY of the SINNER: "He shall be tormented with fire and brimstone...the smoke of their torment ascended up for ever and ever and they have no rest day or night."

If you do NOT know the Lord Jesus Christ as your Saviour, Lord and God...ALL of the above will be what you WILL inherit...for it is written: "The WAGES of SIN is DEATH ...but the GIFT of God is ETERNAL LIFE through Jesus Christ , our Lord." .

The CHOICE is yours.

Marchello

Shakyamunison
^Why do you believe in the bible? I think the answer is because your mother and father told you that the bible was true, and your mom and dad could never be wrong. Have they ever been wrong?

Alliance
Originally posted by Marchello
*Skeptics like you try to dismiss the reality of Hell

laughing "skeptics" too bad we are not little lemmings following you off a cliff.

debbiejo
Originally posted by Marchello
*

***Not so. Skeptics like you try to dismiss the reality of Hell...and like to think that life as we know it couldn't get any worst...but the sufferings in this life will be heaven compared to the suffering in the next life for those who die in their sins. This life is the closest thing to Hell that Christians will ever know...and the closest thing to heaven that sinners will ever know.

The Bible refers to the fate of the UNSAVED with such fearful words as the following:
(1)"Shame and everlasting contempt."
(2)"Everlasting punishment."
(3)"Weeping and gnashing of teeth"
(4)"Fire unquenchable"
(5)"Indignation and wrath, tribulation and anquish"
(6)"Everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord"
(7)"Eternal fire...the blackness of darkness for ever"

Revelation 14:10,11 tells us the FINAL, ETERNAL DESTINY of the SINNER: "He shall be tormented with fire and brimstone...the smoke of their torment ascended up for ever and ever and they have no rest day or night."

If you do NOT know the Lord Jesus Christ as your Saviour, Lord and God...ALL of the above will be what you WILL inherit...for it is written: "The WAGES of SIN is DEATH ...but the GIFT of God is ETERNAL LIFE through Jesus Christ , our Lord." .

The CHOICE is yours.
.
Marchello I'm not taling bible ......but reality

Marchello
*

***Sad.

Marchello

Alliance
no.

docb77
Originally posted by XxoooxX
Cristians, I have a question. What does someone need to do to go to hell? like inorder for god to send someone to hell?

You don't have to do anything to go to hell. You just have to be.

In the Christian paradigm life is like a train with no brakes heading toward hell fast enough that you can't jump. Christ is like the rescuer hanging out the helicopter holding his hand out for you to take. In order to avoid hell, all you have to do is grab the outstretched hand.

Clear as mud?

RocasAtoll
Originally posted by Marchello
*

***Sad.

Marchello

It's sad she uses logic instead of a flawed book?

Jim Reaper
I knocked a guy out in a kickboxing match, and I felt great about it, so I'm going to hell for pride. devil
I'll get use to it, like a hot-tub.

Alliance
Originally posted by Jim Reaper
I knocked a guy out in a kickboxing match, and I felt great about it, so I'm going to hell for pride. devil
I'll get use to it, like a hot-tub.

JIA can teach you a thing or two about pride.

Jim Reaper
Originally posted by Alliance
JIA can teach you a thing or two about pride.

I know...repent and be saved. angel thumb down

Marchello
*

***"But if our gospel be HID, it is HID to THEM that are LOST: In whom the god of THIS WORLD hath BLINDED the MINDS of THEM which BELIEVE NOT, lest the LIGHT of the glorious GOSPEL of Christ, who is the IMAGE of God, should SHINE unto them" .

Marchello

Shakyamunison
Originally posted by Marchello
*

***"But if our gospel be HID, it is HID to THEM that are LOST: In whom the god of THIS WORLD hath BLINDED the MINDS of THEM which BELIEVE NOT, lest the LIGHT of the glorious GOSPEL of Christ, who is the IMAGE of God, should SHINE unto them" .

Marchello


The idea that the information in the bible is hidden from people who are not Christians is a LIE!.

docb77
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
The idea that the information in the bible is hidden from people who are not Christians is a LIE!.

Actually I think it's a misinterpretation.

Jesus own words: "He who has ears to hear, let him hear."

Obviously not everyone would get what He was talking about (In this case the parables). But people who paid attention and thought it through would eventually get it. In other words, people who actually listen and don't just assume.

Alliance
Originally posted by Marchello
*

***"But if our gospel be HID, it is HID to THEM that are LOST: In whom the god of THIS WORLD hath BLINDED the MINDS of THEM which BELIEVE NOT, lest the LIGHT of the glorious GOSPEL of Christ, who is the IMAGE of God, should SHINE unto them" .

Marchello

There is a nice easy quote function. Use it instead of endless symbols.

Marchello
*

***Tis not the Scriptures that are flawed...it is her "logic" that is flawed.

Marchello

Shakyamunison
Originally posted by docb77
Actually I think it's a misinterpretation.

Jesus own words: "He who has ears to hear, let him hear."

Obviously not everyone would get what He was talking about (In this case the parables). But people who paid attention and thought it through would eventually get it. In other words, people who actually listen and don't just assume.

I agree with you, but the way that some Christians use the idea to say that non-Christians pay attention, but will not hear the truth. They us it as an excuse for their own ignorance.

BTW I sometimes I say things in real general terms, and I realize that I am not always right. Some Christians do not fall under the umbrella of my generalization. To those Christians like docb77 & Regret, to name two that have called me on this, I ask for your understanding, and patients. I have learned that there are good Christians, but it is the bad ones that I battle.

Alliance
Are you part of God's army too?

Shakyamunison
Originally posted by Alliance
Are you part of God's army too?

God dose not need an army. I am on my own crusade.

Alliance
:lame:

Shakyamunison
Originally posted by Alliance
:lame:

Allegedly

FeceMan
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
God dose not need an army. I am on my own crusade.
He still has one.

Alliance
No. It really is this time.

Marchello
*

***Not so. Many people, particularly Jews , did not accept the Gospel. To them it was "veiled" . But Paul would not change it to make it more palatable, as his opponents had done . The Gospel was rejected by people who were unable and unwilling to accept it . They disbelieved and were abetted in their unbelief by Satan, "the god of this age" who, though defeated by Christ , continues his hold over the present world . His blinding of peoples' "minds" makes it IMPOSSIBLE for them to "see the light of the Gospel."

The Gospel, then, is NOT obscure. In fact, it points to Christ who, as "the image of God" , revealed God the Father by His words and actions .

The reason Paul served the church and openly proclaimed the Gospel was because of God's work in his life. Much as in creating the world God acted to bring "light...out of darkness" , so in SPIRITUAL CREATION He brings "light" to the "hearts" of those in darkness . This had been Paul's experience on the Damascus Road, when "a light from heaven flashed around him" . Confronted with the risen Lord, he became a "new creation" . "The light" in believers' lives is "the knowledge of" God's SALVATION, a glory issuing from and seen "in the face of Christ" and reflected by Paul . When people are in darkness of SIN, they have NO KNOWLEDGE of God...no experience of His LIFE and SALVATION .

Marchello

Shakyamunison
Originally posted by Marchello
*

***Not so. Many people, particularly Jews , did not accept the Gospel. To them it was "veiled" . But Paul would not change it to make it more palatable, as his opponents had done . The Gospel was rejected by people who were unable and unwilling to accept it . They disbelieved and were abetted in their unbelief by Satan, "the god of this age" who, though defeated by Christ , continues his hold over the present world . His blinding of peoples' "minds" makes it IMPOSSIBLE for them to "see the light of the Gospel."

The Gospel, then, is NOT obscure. In fact, it points to Christ who, as "the image of God" , revealed God the Father by His words and actions .

The reason Paul served the church and openly proclaimed the Gospel was because of God's work in his life. Much as in creating the world God acted to bring "light...out of darkness" , so in SPIRITUAL CREATION He brings "light" to the "hearts" of those in darkness . This had been Paul's experience on the Damascus Road, when "a light from heaven flashed around him" . Confronted with the risen Lord, he became a "new creation" . "The light" in believers' lives is "the knowledge of" God's SALVATION, a glory issuing from and seen "in the face of Christ" and reflected by Paul . When people are in darkness of SIN, they have NO KNOWLEDGE of God...no experience of His LIFE and SALVATION .

Marchello

If you say that other people are blind to the truth, then you are saying that you are not blind. Pride comes before the fall.

Alliance
Can we ban people for posting to no-one?

Shakyamunison
Originally posted by Alliance
Can we ban people for posting to no-one?

What are you talking about? confused

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