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ONe thing I was hoping to see in the movie was the reasoning behind why Vader is so loyal to the Emperor.

The only real theory is that Vader fears the lightning. But Vader could pull a Sid and kill him in his sleep.(though is noises would make it hard to sneak)

So I was wondering what some of the more brain using people on this board toughts are on the subject.

And no need to bash the thread or all that other bullshit, if you dont like it just let it fade into black hole that is the second page.

Maybe he felt there was something still to learn from the old bastard. LOL! Sidious did save his life. Obi-Wan did not.

Save his life, what was left to live for?

Palpatine is all Vader has left. He's the only friend that he hasn't alienated or killed. His mother died. His wife died. He thinks his children died with her. He tried to kill his best friend. All he has left is his mentor, Palpatine. And as far as Vader knows, Palpatine has done nothing but try to help him ever since he came to Coruscant. Serving the Emperor is the only thing that gives his life meaning and purpose... until he discovers Luke.

True Krem, but doesnt it seem like, in the OT, that Vader is doing it against his will? Or am I stretching?

hmm...

Vader (Episode VI): "You don't know the power of the Dark Side. I must obey my master."

Perhaps Vader still believes he has more to learn of the Dark Side? That Palpatine still has greater power?

Yeah, that is what I was talking about.

Originally posted by DeVi| D0do
hmm...

Vader (Episode VI): "You don't know the power of the Dark Side. I must obey my master."

Perhaps Vader still believes he has more to learn of the Dark Side? That Palpatine still has greater power?

Maybe Vader is telling Luke... hey... you don't know anything about the Dark Side so why should I go with you? My master does... I'll stick with him.

heh... It still seems like Palpatine has Vader wrapped around his wrinkled little finger... Palpatine is still manipulating him...

I just think that Vader is miserable from the moment he yells "Noooooooooo!" to the moment he throws Palpatine down the reactor shaft. That's why he is the way he is. But committing suicide wouldn't make for a fitting saga ending, so he just went on and on, doing Palpatine's bidding. Initially, i'm sure he stuck with him for reasons I mentioned previously. As time went on, i'm sure he just felt more miserable, but there was still nothing left for him out there. Plus, the dark side's lust for power was also in him. We all know that, if there would've been a perfect moment to do so, Vader would've offed Palpatine and taken his place. But Palpatine was always stronger, and Vader knew this. So he needed Luke to do that, so he tried to get him to join him in ESB. So, by the time Luke came around, i'm sure he wasn't as "loyal" to Palpatine as he was biding his time & waiting for an opportunity to overthrow him. Staying close to him was the easiest way.

Maybe, and this is stretching.


Palpatine wasnt lying to Anakin about keeping people from dying. And that is how Anakin lives, and also why he dies after killing the Emperor.



Ofcourse that cancels out my other theory that Anakin survives his injuries because he is unable to die until fulfilling his destiny.

Remember the whole more machine than man aspect also. In Episode 3 Anakin basically loses his soul. It ends with him becoming more machine than man. He has lost everything. He is now the Emperor's slave and basically just does whatever he is told. I think he kind of surrenders to this fact until the ESB and his knowledge of Luke. The Emperor senses this and wants to replace him before the "Chosen One" returns to the light.

What Palpatine wants is the powerful force user that he should've had with Anakin. That's why he wants Luke. Palpatine doesn't think that Anakin will turn from the dark side. Everyone but Luke thinks it's impossible to turn back to the light... until Anakin returns.

I think the emperor was definitely overconfident, but he was also paranoid. I don't know. There's a lot of stuff we just don't know. Like did Sidious know how things would end up with Anakin? Did he send the separatist to Mustafar on purpose so that later Obi-Wan and Anakin could duel to the death? Did he know Obi-Wan would best him and drive him further to the darkside? He sure was prepared with a finely crafted suit and breathing apparatus at the ready as soon as Anakin was injured.

You think that suit was finely crafted? What is with all the black? Black is so 1977. Vader's armor should be maroon, and his mask should blow bubble when he speaks.

A sith lord must wear black. I think it's a rule. LOL

Originally posted by DarkYoda
A sith lord must wear black. I think it's a rule. LOL

lol Imagine if it really is a rule-

Dark Lord of the Sith Rule Book

rule 1- Must be named Darth
rule 2- Must wear a finely crafted/made/wooven anything black.

I like the theory that Palpatine was all Anakin had left. In my eyes though Anakin should have killed Palpatine and Ruled the Galaxy like he mentioned to Padme and Luke!

i think it was because he thought taht palpatine could teach him stuff still. nething he wanted, he prolly thought he could acquire through the dark side, but he'd have to learn it from palpatine. and seriously, he has no motive to kill him! he doesnt mistreat him or nething, he's an awesome master. why would you want to kill him

Kremzike is right... I have to agree with that... Wouldn't you also stay loyal to a guy who basically saves your life also? He's in debted to the Emperor... Besides that Anakin was too weak, he folded to the darkside all too easily...

Originally posted by kremzike
Palpatine is all Vader has left. He's the only friend that he hasn't alienated or killed. His mother died. His wife died. He thinks his children died with her. He tried to kill his best friend. All he has left is his mentor, Palpatine. And as far as Vader knows, Palpatine has done nothing but try to help him ever since he came to Coruscant. Serving the Emperor is the only thing that gives his life meaning and purpose... until he discovers Luke.

"until he discovers Luke."

Which is what i found really interesting last night. He fails to save his mothers life, then vows to never let it happen again. Palpatine claims he has the power to save his wife, yet he fails by killing her himself. When Vader shouts "Noooo!" at the end of the film, that was the last piece of humanity Anakin had left, so he gives up. But when Luke comes along, he finally does right by 'saving the ones he loved', so i think GL always had 'love' in mind when telling the story of how Anakin turned bad. Love bought him to the darkside, love brings him back to the lightside. Also, destroying the Sith once and for all, which comes under 'fulfilling the prophesy'...............sorry, go on!

Palpatine lies to Anakin....


Tells him he knows how to save Padme, then when Anakin turns... Palpatine then says we will discover the secrete together...

Anakin should have known something was up after he said that... Telling you WEAKNESS...

i know, he is a little GULLIBLE! lol

Well...learning the ability to save someone from death becomes mute for Vader after Padme dies. Vader has nothing left at that point. Except the Sith order and 'his' Empire. Luke reminds him of who he was before he dedicated his entire existence to the Sith ideology. Killing Sidious would serve no purpose. He is still an apprentice and there's no one else he can turn to to gain more power if Sidious dies.

Good thread, its good to see there is still intelligent conversation going on here with all the dud threads around.
I think as many have said it comes down to the fact that Vader has lost everything he knew, his mother, his friends, his wife and children (or so he thought). He has always liked the way Palpatine boosted his ego and Vader looked on him as a mentor so its not a stretch to say he still thought of him as an ally more than an enemy in the OT. As far as Vader is concerned Palpatine has done nothing wrong other than concealed his true identity and he wouldnt be the first person to be less than truthful in Vaders eyes.
Vader is a sith, even though his tale is tragic he is defiantly evil by the time we meet him in ep4. So its only natural that he follow his masters orders until he has the chance to overthrow him as the sith code states. We dont truly know his motives for destroying the Emperor in ROTJ, if he wasnt damaged maybe he would have tried to turn Luke and carry on the sith.
The fact remains also that he is not powerful enough to take the Emperor down and in the meantime he is doing his job and being the evil character that he has become.
Just a random thought, maybe he is hoping to learn the Emperors life sustaining power so he can survive without the suit and be strong enough to be top dog.

I agree. Although I wonder. I don't think Palpatine was purely evil. They mentioned the Sith use thier emotions. Anakin was in Love which is not what you're supposed to be when you're a Jedi. This ultimately led to his turning to the dark side. I think Palpatine genuinely cared for Vader in a way. He saved his life and showed emotion. I think Vader truely loves his master. In an evil sort of way.

I dont beleive all of it is known to Sidious, "I sense Lord Vader is in trouble" so he goes, if could have stopped that he most certainly would have, He did tell Yoda "Vader will be more powerful than both of us" prior to his batlle w/ Obi Wan, this was probably true.

He also shows emotion for his little demon, he goes to touch him in a sort of affection as he kneels beside him, they both do care for each other as much as the Darkside will allow anyway.

All Vader realy has is to eliminate any rebellion and hunt the remaining Jedi down, this is his life and in a new hope & Empire he sure looks motivated to me. Im sure he enjoys his power, killing off lacky admirals is probably funny to him later, lol

Vader, I beleive is unable to take out Sidious after the battle because of the whole machine thing, Vader also probably looks to him as being so wise for having defeated the Jedi, even Sidious showed what seemed to be admiration for his master, He kept saying how wise he was and powerful.

The Darkside will blurt out the ocassional "I can take him down, or we can take him down" but do they actualy mean to do it?

It all boils down to a WOMAN.....

Originally posted by Jedi Styles
It all boils down to a WOMAN.....

And what a woman she is

Excellent points. Remember, Anakin was always searching for more. More power, more praise from Obi-Wan, more ranking within the Jedi, he wanted love and marriage even though he was forbidden... so it finally takes it's toll. He was full of fear and hate... a path to the darkside, it is. Anakin was always on the fence really and unsatisfied with his life... so I think all the talk of it coming quickly isn't really true.

Now... throw in some heart-breaking things... his mother, thinking Padme betrays him, dueling it out with your "brother", killing younglings, killing sandpeople, whatever..... sometimes when you hate things you've done in fits of hate or fear or rage, you're going to turn to whoever is there in your life who seems to care about you, even if it's a little bit. Palpatine has always been there building a relationship with Anakin, so I think it makes sense that he would be so willing to serve his new master. He can overlook the evil, because he hates what he's become... more evidence of some good left in there.

I agree though.... he fully embraces the evil by Ep IV... it happens. You realize this is your life so you might as well make the most of it. What can you do..... it isn't until he feels love again (not a manipulated mentorship, as with Palpatine, who has a hidden agenda), but a respectful love of a lost family member. I think it makes perfect sense. Of course Palpatine is going to use his mind control over Darth Vader now, just like he did with Anakin.... saving his life surely didn't hurt either.

Oh... and as for the life-saving technique.... for all Anakin/Darth Vader knows, he might still believe that his new master can find it.... and restore his body.... he believes that he KILLED Padme, not that she died on her own free will.

i dont get why he chocked her when the whole point of him joining the dark side was to keep her alive...i guess he was twisted by the dark side...so sad...

I believe he choked her because he thought she was having an affair with Kenobi... he thought he had been betrayed.

This idea was present in the screenplay but abandoned in the film. In the film it suggests he choked her because she brought Obi Wan to kill him.

I like the affair senario better...

It could also be that he stays with Palpatine because he believes if he continues training he will gain the power to bring Padme back from the dead.