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The Old Late Friday Media Trick: Pentagon Admits Koran Abuse



Associated Press


WASHINGTON The Pentagon on Friday released new details about mishandling of the Quran at the Guantanamo Bay prison for terror suspects, confirming that a soldier deliberately kicked the Muslim holy book and that an interrogator stepped on a Quran and was later fired for "a pattern of unacceptable behavior."

In other confirmed incidents, a guard's urine came through an air vent and splashed on a detainee and his Quran; water balloons thrown by prison guards caused an unspecified number of Qurans to get wet; and in a confirmed but ambiguous case, a two-word obscenity was written in English on the inside cover of a Quran.

The findings, released after normal business hours Friday evening, are among the results of an investigation last month by Brig. Gen. Jay Hood, the commander of the detention center in Cuba, that was triggered by a Newsweek magazine report--later retracted--that a U.S. soldier had flushed one Guantanamo Bay detainee's Quran down a toilet.

The story stirred worldwide controversy and the Bush administration blamed it for deadly demonstrations in Afghanistan.

Hood said in a written statement released Friday evening, along with the new details, that his investigation "revealed a consistent, documented policy of respectful handling of the Quran dating back almost 2 1/2 years."

Hood said that of nine mishandling cases that were studied in detail by reviewing thousands of pages of written records, five were confirmed to have happened. He could not determine conclusively whether the four others took place.

In one of those four unconfirmed cases, a detainee in April 2003 complained to FBI and other interrogators that guards "constantly defile the Quran." The detainee alleged that in one instance a female military guard threw a Quran into a bag of wet towels to anger another detainee, and he also alleged that another guard said the Quran belonged in the toilet and that guards were ordered to do these things.

Hood said he found no other record of this detainee mentioning any Quran mishandling. The detainee has since been released.

In the most recent confirmed case, Hood said a detainee complained on March 25, 2005, of urine splashing on him and his Quran. An unidentified guard admitted at the time that "he was at fault," the Hood report said, although it did not say whether the act was deliberate. The guard's supervisor reprimanded him and assigned him to gate guard duty, where he had no contact with detainees for the remainder of his assignment at Guantanamo Bay.

As described in the Hood report, the guard had left his observation post and went outside to urinate. He urinated near an air vent and the wind blew his urine through the vent into the cell block. The incident was not further explained.

In another of the confirmed cases, a contract interrogator stepped on a detainee's Quran in July 2003 and then apologized. "The interrogator was later terminated for a pattern of unacceptable behavior, an inability to follow direct guidance and poor leadership," the Hood report said.

Hood also said his investigation found 15 cases of detainees mishandling their own Qurans. "These included using a Quran as a pillow, ripping pages out of the Quran, attempting to flush a Quran down the toilet and urinating on the Quran," Hood's report said. It offered no possible explanation for those alleged abuses.

In the most recent of those 15 cases, a detainee on Feb. 18, 2005, allegedly ripped up his Quran and handed it to a guard, stating that he had given up on being a Muslim. Several of the guards witnessed this, Hood reported.

Last week, Hood disclosed that he had confirmed five cases of mishandling of the Quran, but he refused to provide details. Allegations of Quran desecration at Guantanamo Bay have led to anti-American passions in many Muslim nations, although Pentagon officials have insisted that the problems were relatively minor and that U.S. commanders have gone to great lengths to enable detainees to practice their religion in captivity.

Hood said last week that he found no credible evidence that a Quran was ever flushed down a toilet. He said a prisoner who was reported to have complained to an FBI agent in 2002 that a military guard threw a Quran in the toilet has since told Hood's investigators that he never witnessed any form of Quran desecration.

Other prisoners who were returned to their home countries after serving time at Guantanamo Bay as terror suspects have alleged Quran desecration by U.S. guards, and some have said a Quran was placed in a toilet.

There are about 540 detainees at Guantanamo Bay. Some have been there more than three years without being charged with a crime. Most were captured on the battlefields of Afghanistan in 2001 and 2002 and were sent to Guantanamo Bay in hope of extracting useful intelligence about the al-Qaida terrorist network.

Both President Bush and Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld have denounced an Amnesty International report that called the U.S. detention center at Guantanamo Bay "the gulag of our time."

The president told reporters at a press conference on Tuesday that the report by the human-rights group was "absurd."

On Wednesday, Rumsfeld called the characterization "reprehensible" and said the U.S. military had taken care to ensure that detainees were free to practice their religion. However, he also acknowledged that some detainees had been mistreated, even "grievously" at times.

http://www.editorandpublisher.com/eandp/news/article_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1000946520

Originally posted by PVS
water balloons thrown by prison guards caused an unspecified number of Qurans to get wet

Wow! I didn't realize how heinous this act was.
I've got a lot of work to do with locating a bunch of then-teenagers in my old neighborhood who unloaded a bunch of water balloons at me one time. I'm going to put them behind bars for good!

Originally posted by botankus
Wow! I didn't realize how heinous this act was.
I've got a lot of work to do with locating a bunch of then-teenagers in my old neighborhood who unloaded a bunch of water balloons at me one time. I'm going to put them behind bars for good!

so thats it? you pick that part and run with it? as if the only crime is throwing water balloons?

Being of no faith whatsoever.... It doesn't bother me.

I can see why others might be offended though. But its not really a crime in anyway.

The point was these acts were committed to antagonise and cause suffering to detainees who take the book seriously and it is unnaceptable behaviour for an army of a country who have specific guidelines in place and supposed standards to follow.

IMO if your a prisoner... for legal reasons... then you forfeit everything bar basic rights.

And as i said I can understand why they are upset, but its not a crime to do that stuff.

Originally posted by PVS
so thats it? you pick that part and run with it? as if the only crime is throwing water balloons?

Alright, I confess. Guilty of selective reading as charged.

Does that mean that soldiers and other members of whatever level within armed forces are allowed to do whatever they like? No, that's the whole issue here, modern forces within modern countries who have treaties and guidelines have made rules to follow. Procedures governing all kinds of things and not in the least appropriate behaviour towards detainees or prisoners. Once guidelines like those are in place it says to the rest of the world that 'you' are a modern and fair country at least on the surface and that 'your' willing to go along with international treaties or ideals etc and if those are breached 'you' have to be held accountable.

Also, these cases can be tried within army courts as crimes depending on certain factors and jurisdictions but especially in this scenario there are international legal implications and punishments can be served.

Maybe I should correct that to basic human rights.

Atheist or not (although I am), you should respect those who choose to follow a religion, and as long as their rules do not change your lifestyle, accept them.

There was no need to defile the Quran, it was unnecessary. If they didn't want you to marry or something *hint hint*, then say "**** you" to their religion.

i cant believe some people who dont see this as a big deal,
yet if those guards took a shit on the rosarie it would be a whole different story wouldnt it? if they wiped their asses with pages from the bible there would be massive public outcry in america, wouldnt there? but who cares right? just a bunch of dirty muslems, so who cares.




racism

well which books have the best paper(softest) the one with the softest paper is the one I would use if I had to whipe my ass with only religious books at hand

If it was the bible I wouldn't care either.
I'm not being racist... I'm being indifferent.

for me they can use any religious books they want to whipe their asses

Originally posted by PVS
i cant believe some people who dont see this as a big deal,
yet if those guards took a shit on the rosarie it would be a whole different story wouldnt it? if they wiped their asses with pages from the bible there would be massive public outcry in america, wouldnt there? but who cares right? just a bunch of dirty muslems, so who cares.


Yes they would be pissed in America and Muslim countries would be indifferent.
Opposite situation, sounds like people from Muslim countries are pissed and America indifferent.

So what's the problem here?

the difference is we are not occupied by a muslem country.
there are no americans in state prisons of foreign countries subjected to this. so your comparrison is flawed and useless.

And America would force those countries to do something a lot more severe to the culprits.

The thing is, once again, is that a country who claims to take the moral high ground, should in fact, take the morale high ground.

Just because I don't believe in something does not give me the right to use those beliefs against someone.

Barring the insensitivity exhibited by those soldiers (who do in fact represent the United States to people of other countries) one has to wonder at the complete stupidity of doing that to an object so revered by entire nations of people and not expect ill feelings or consequential actions.

this type action regardless of the perpatrators or the defaced item (when said item is held in high esteem by another) is disgraceful..

Equally as awful is the media burying the story

Originally posted by PVS
i cant believe some people who dont see this as a big deal,
yet if those guards took a shit on the rosarie it would be a whole different story wouldnt it? if they wiped their asses with pages from the bible there would be massive public outcry in america, wouldnt there? but who cares right? just a bunch of dirty muslems, so who cares.




racism

Dont people wipe their ass with the bible in the middle east all the time? I see no public outcry, but now its the quaran and its all racist this, and that. Whatever, if it was the bible I wouldn't care either. I wonder if the guards had a competition who can soke the quaran the fastest. Gotta keep busy down there, I am sure beating the muslims and comitting such racist crimes everyday must get boring.

So the Pentagon has finally admitted it?



Is anyone really surprised? Many American soldiers, (though not all), are pigs.

Originally posted by DCLXVI
So the Pentagon has finally admitted it?



Is anyone really surprised? Many American soldiers, (though not all), are pigs.

So are many british..and French...and Australian..

Indeed. And Canadian.

It's one of the horrors of war.

JESUS FU.CKING TAP DANCING CHRIST. America is becomming so god damn soft. our army should stop using guns and start using wet noodles. Who the hell gives a shit if someone kicked a holy book? I mean flipping hell.

Millions of Muslim men and women, that's who.

Bub.

Originally posted by DCLXVI
Millions of Muslim men and women, that's who.

Bub.

They'll get over it.. after all its not like we beheaded them all for reading the quaran.

That's actually a moderately humourous statment....if you like to make fun of those who were beheaded....

dude, its not like there was a public announcment by the presient of the united states shitting all over their beliefs. It is a time of war, and people are busting nuts over somthing so god damn trivial. 20 years ago, the american goverment wouldnt appologize for somthing so trivial. it is horseshit.

Originally posted by ragesRemorse
dude, its not like there was a public announcment by the presient of the united states shitting all over their beliefs. It is a time of war, and people are busting nuts over somthing so god damn trivial. 20 years ago, the american goverment wouldnt appologize for somthing so trivial. it is horseshit.

20 years ago, the American government wasn't invading a country over false pretences.

Originally posted by DCLXVI
20 years ago, the American government wasn't invading a country over false pretences.

war is war, no matter what justifications or ideals are behind it.

So in other words, countries should be able to wage war on each other just for the hell of it?

Originally posted by DCLXVI
So in other words, countries should be able to wage war on each other just for the hell of it?

yeah, why not

That's one of the most f*cked up statements I've ever heard, especially coming from a Christian.

why especially coming from a christian? That shouldnt be any surprise, we catholics are war like people. you know how many lives have been taken and how many wars have been waged because of us catholics? let burn i say. you ever hear that saying if its yellow let it mellow, if it's brown flush it down? well, thats how the americans decide wars now, after veitnam

That's still f*cked up, and talk like that kinda' scares me.

it's a good thing i wasnt serious then. I dont understand the whole uproar over this thing with the koran though. These soldiers are fighting a war, of course their views on people are going to be displaced during the fighting.

That doesn't excuse them mistreating someones belief-system.
It's nearly the same as someone burning an American flag....

Originally posted by DCLXVI
That doesn't excuse them mistreating someones belief-system.
It's nearly the same as someone burning an American flag....

see, i htink the entire war is being fought over false ideals, but it is still a war none the less. Soldiers should be able to be interrogated without the media fondeling the enemies nuts. Also, was it really mistreating an entire belief system or the acts of an enraged and confused soldier? I could totally understand if the military or goverment would say somthing to belittle beliefs, but these are everyday people. what about the muslims burning american flags, and muslim citizens in england and america throwing protests with a DIE bush die, chant. Or America america lies and death you are? NO one says a god damn thing about this.

That's not true.
The American government makes sure that the American press sticks to those subjects.

really? the only thing i see the media or goverment doing about that, is giving them coverage and acknowledgment. The american goverment wouldnt dare oppose an ethnic protest.

ah, here comes the racist right invasion of this thread.
no matter what crimes are commited, they dont care.
its all fair. YEEEEEEEEHAAAAAAAAWWWW!!!!!!!!!!


dumb redneck idiot tools

dont you f***ing realise this directly leads to our troops who are IN THE WAR being bombed in the streets? because of some privileged pricks who dont share the danger, but only have their precious power to engulge in? american troops will die for the irresponsibility of these assholes. troops who never had any interest in pissing on a holy book or oppressing anyone. THEY have to deal with the fallout, and they will. so i think its important, and i bet they think its pretty f***ing important

idiots

Originally posted by PVS
ah, here comes the racist right invasion of this thread.
no matter what crimes are commited, they dont care.
its all fair. YEEEEEEEEHAAAAAAAAWWWW!!!!!!!!!!


dumb redneck idiot tools

dont you f***ing realise this directly leads to our troops who are IN THE WAR being bombed in the streets? because of some privileged pricks who dont share the danger, but only have their precious power to engulge in? american troops will die for the irresponsibility of these assholes. troops who never had any interest in pissing on a holy book or oppressing anyone. THEY have to deal with the fallout, and they will. so i think its important, and i bet they think its pretty f***ing important

idiots

Am I an idiot, PVS?

no dude

just people who dont understand the concept of action=reaction.
i find it very disturbing that the very people who claim to give a shit about our troops dont give a shit about this. for every act of abuse like this, our men in the field find themselves in that much more of a world of shit. that pisses me off. fakeass flag-loving patriots who dont really consider the danger to our own flesh and blood...that pisses me off to no end

Preach it babeh!!

What disgusts me are the people that say it's okay or no big deal because Christianity is outlawed in many Muslim countries. Haven't you ever heard of "do unto others as you'd have them do unto you"?

Trying to justify something by saying "they're doing it too!" doesn't make it right.

Ahh yes.. a founding message of Christianity (which gets conveniently mispalced when its not wanted)

Originally posted by PVS
ah, here comes the racist right invasion of this thread.
no matter what crimes are commited, they dont care.
its all fair. YEEEEEEEEHAAAAAAAAWWWW!!!!!!!!!!


dumb redneck idiot tools

dont you f***ing realise this directly leads to our troops who are IN THE WAR being bombed in the streets? because of some privileged pricks who dont share the danger, but only have their precious power to engulge in? american troops will die for the irresponsibility of these assholes. troops who never had any interest in pissing on a holy book or oppressing anyone. THEY have to deal with the fallout, and they will. so i think its important, and i bet they think its pretty f***ing important

idiots

I like how you ***** to all these racists about generalizing a certin race ect. then you go and call all of us rednecks..and "tools". Also free speech isn't going anyware anytime soon, so get over it.

Originally posted by KidRock
I like how you ***** to all these racists about generalizing a certin race ect. then you go and call all of us rednecks..and "tools". Also free speech isn't going anyware anytime soon, so get over it.

i like how you talk out your ass and avoid the point. the truth is ugly, but you should really deal with it.

Originally posted by PVS
i like how you talk out your ass and avoid the point. the truth is ugly, but you should really deal with it.

Get over it, people dont agree with your points, thats not my problem. Stop crying becuase people are expressing their opinions.

iresponsible abusing of power puts out troops in much greater danger.
thats not opinion, thats FACT. and because you deny it that makes you an ignorant redneck flag-waving troop-apathetic fake patriot jackass

Originally posted by PVS
iresponsible abusing of power puts out troops in much greater danger.
thats not opinion, thats FACT. and because you deny it that makes you an ignorant redneck flag-waving troop-apathetic fake patriot jackass

No need to get mad.. its only the internet Also you completely avoided everything I posted, and jumped to a completely new topic, and since I dont feel like making you look like an ass again, I am just going to quit while I am ahead.

Originally posted by DCLXVI
That's actually a moderately humourous statment....if you like to make fun of those who were beheaded....

** Today's entry from the "Insensitivity from a Sensitive Person Department" **

Originally posted by KidRock
No need to get mad.. its only the internet Also you completely avoided everything I posted, and jumped to a completely new topic, and since I dont feel like making you look like an ass again, I am just going to quit while I am ahead.
You can return to your usual talent of making an ass out of yourself now.

Originally posted by KidRock
No need to get mad.. its only the internet Also you completely avoided everything I posted, and jumped to a completely new topic, and since I dont feel like making you look like an ass again, I am just going to quit while I am ahead.

its not an issue of right and wrong. the issue of sensativity is irrelevant.
the REAL issue is as i've stated. tension in the very areas where our troops are supposed to keep peace flare at the news of such happenings. the more tension which flares, the more reason people have to not trust us, more reason to hate us, more reason to join the other side, more reason to attack, more reason to kill.

are they justified? i dont think so. it justification relevant? no

what is relevant is the lives of our troops, and the lives of iraqi civilians. every time acts of pure stupidity like this are allowed, the FACT is it leads to escalated violence. THAT is fact. THAT cannot be denied. and kidrock, that is not just a laughable issue floating on the internet. that leads to yet more cargo planes packed with flag-draped coffins landing on american soil.

i wont even go into the thousands of innocent civilians killed in this war, since you obviously dont give a rats ass. but i find it sad and disturbing that someone who claims to be such a patriot would laugh at such an issue. makes me wonder if you really do care for our troops or if you really just have some fetish for a red white and blue piece of fabric and nothing more.

Wow

Just for that most eloquent post PVS.. you get a cookie!! Well said

Originally posted by PVS
its not an issue of right and wrong. the issue of sensativity is irrelevant.

For my post, it most certainly is not. This isn't CNN'S Crossfire. I don't have to run everything by you.

Aside from these acts of stupidity putting american soldiers at risk, they also put america under scrutiny from both allied, neutral and enemy states. Soldiers are your representatives. Their behaviour is a direct reflection on their country.

These actions also put your civilian population at risk from another terrorist attack as these acts give them purpose.

Finally these acts of galactic stupidity also reinforce all the negative feelings and judgements against the U.S. right now that is being cultivated worldwide by the acts of your current administration. Other countries may do just as bad if not worse, but they do not claim to be the lights of democracy or beyond reproach.

Originally posted by bilb
Wow

Just for that most eloquent post PVS.. you get a cookie!! Well said

COOKIE!!!!

PVS
I like how your quick to call us racist.

I wonder what your opinion on the travesty happening in Zimbabwe(spelling is wrong) is. Where White people are being brutally murdered and having their land taken off them by black people. And for some reason, their government doesn't care. I bet in your opinion the white's were being racist for owning the land in the first place.

that has to be considered as racism too

Originally posted by finti
that has to be considered as racism too

Yes it should be, but the thing is, the media don't care! Racism only appears to work one way.

I don't see the big deal, besides the bit with the urine. If that was deliberate, then that's messed up. Other than that, destroying the Quran is not a crime, even though the gaurds are total dicks for doing it.

Originally posted by Jedi_KnightAlly
PVS
I like how your quick to call us racist.

I wonder what your opinion on the travesty happening in Zimbabwe(spelling is wrong) is. Where White people are being brutally murdered and having their land taken off them by black people. And for some reason, their government doesn't care. I bet in your opinion the white's were being racist for owning the land in the first place.

the very fact that you would turn the issue into racism give your post a strong racist undertone. obviously you have not paid attention to what i have said and are trying to put some halfassed spin on what you THINK i meant, and then you follow up with what you assume i believe. amazing. you created my arguement out of thin air, countered that imaginary arguement with some unrelated point, and then saved me the trouble of a rebuttal by then speaking my reply for me. well it seems you've 'won' your imaginary arguement. bravo!!!

i think any senseless murder and brutality is spawned by evil, be it black or white people/person... i also think that those white people perhaps may not be justified in owning that land, but certainly not deserving of violence and murder. but like i said, its unrelated and only proves that you are thinking with a racist mentallity. if all you can see is white people versus black or middle eastern people, then that seems to imply that you view white as right. or else, why the hell did you bring it up? really, explain yourself.

and no, i'm not a self loathing white person...and in case you havent noticed, an overwealming number of u.s. troops are black&latino. so again....wtf is your point?

My point was... This had nothing to with racism, I said I don't care for religons so i'm not bothered. And you said i was racist.

I don't see with a racist mentality. What i do see however is unequality. It should work both ways.

Originally posted by Jedi_KnightAlly
My point was... This had nothing to with racism, I said I don't care for religons so i'm not bothered. And you said i was racist.

I don't see with a racist mentality. What i do see however is unequality. It should work both ways.

inequality where? should our government and/or the u.n. interviene in the situation in zimbabwai(however the hell its spelled)? is that what you are asking? if so yes imo. if anything, pressure should be put on their government to stop the crisis. is that what you were asking? really, im not breaking balls, i just really dont understand how this relates in any way.

the issue in this thread is the desecration of an object with the sole intent of hurting those who find it sacred, including those who are not 'terrorists' but rather every muslem man woman and child. to say that doesnt matter is a product of biggotry...yes

the issue is also the danger it puts our troops and iraqi/afghan citizens in, since.....oh ffs im not going to explain it all again. to not care about any of that is a product of stupidity...absolutely.

Originally posted by PVS
inequality where? should our government and/or the u.n. interviene in the situation in zimbabwai(however the hell its spelled)? is that what you are asking? if so yes imo. if anything, pressure should be put on their government to stop the crisis. is that what you were asking? really, im not breaking balls, i just really dont understand how this relates in any way.

the issue in this thread is the desecration of an object with the sole intent of hurting those who find it sacred, including those who are not 'terrorists' but rather every muslem man woman and child. to say that doesnt matter is a product of biggotry...yes

the issue is also the danger it puts our troops and iraqi/afghan citizens in, since.....oh ffs im not going to explain it all again. to not care about any of that is a product of stupidity...absolutely.

As i said in one of my first posts, I can see why others would be upset or angered by it. Being of no faith, i'm not affected.

My point was you called me and a few others racist because we're not affected. But My point about zimbabwi (spelling is not correct). Was that they're going further by murdering people and they don't care.

But anyhoo i have no wish to argue with someone over this.

Originally posted by PVS
to not care about any of that is a product of stupidity...absolutely.

or apathy

ZIMBABWE if one gonna discuss a country at least heve the courtesy of get the spelling right

Originally posted by finti
ZIMBABWE if one gonna discuss a country at least heve the courtesy of get the spelling right

I totally agree fnti. I mean fintee. Or is it phintee?

Nevermind......

Originally posted by Jedi_KnightAlly
As i said in one of my first posts, I can see why others would be upset or angered by it. Being of no faith, i'm not affected.

i guess you dont have any enlisted relatives then, or else it would unfortuanately have the potential to affect you in a very direct and tragic way.

Originally posted by Jedi_KnightAlly
My point was you called me and a few others racist because we're not affected. But My point about zimbabwi (spelling is not correct). Was that they're going further by murdering people and they don't care.

i must be going senile because i still dont understand your point. who is "they"? black people? muslems? whatever the case, this point stinks of "eye for an eye" as if any crime committed by a handful of muslems justifies the persecution of all muslems. maybe thats a misenterpritation...i hope it is

thats right Karmah..........

well...i almost spelled it correctly

Originally posted by PVS
i guess you dont have any enlisted relatives then, or else it would unfortuanately have the potential to affect you in a very direct and tragic way.



i must be going senile because i still dont understand your point. who is "they"? black people? muslems? whatever the case, this point stinks of "eye for an eye" as if any crime committed by a handful of muslems justifies the persecution of all muslems. maybe thats a misenterpritation...i hope it is

They is the zimbabwean goverment.
Yeah it was a misinterpretation.

Your right if i had any enlisted relatives i would have feelings on it.
"eye for an eye" isn't what i was trying to say. More that, their should be something done, and why is race brought into it? Everyone's equal.