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Loki is a born magician, internal magic that is natural.

Strange has little internal magic, but he has nearly the same experience as Loki.

They've faught once before, and though Strange wasn't experienced and didn't have many of his artifacts and wasn't a sorcerer supreme yet.
But he still managed to stalmated Loki for a while.

Who do you think would win, now that Strange is at full power.

i wonder what the motivation behind this little match up was... hmmmm...?

i thought you'd started doing links and pics...... very dissapointing

thoughts on the match..... Strange may have a wider range of power... but i'd think Loki would have more magical stamina and more powerful "evil" style magic

Actually, I made this before in another thread, but it wasn't all about loki.
Just wanted to see if other knew Strange was uber inexperienced.
Yet, he still held his own and stalemated him.

I think Strange could go over Loki's head and invoke someone more powerful.

i agree long. i think strange would probably win this. he has access i think to higher order powers. at least based on what has been shown. perhaps loki could also invoke some of the same high powers strange does. i'd suspect his pride would prevent that, however. good match though.

Actually, Loki can't, he only has his innate magic.
Only Sorcerer Supreme can call upon the high up yucky yucks.

Stange wins

Strange = Human sorceror
Loki = God sorceror
Experience? Loki has lived a LOT longer than Strange. Not sure what experience you speak of, but if he stalemated Loki, then that's what I would assume would happen if they fought again. Loki has stalemated Surfer before...so he has his accomplishments too.

Course I'm biased...but so's lp.

Getting scared you might not be able to take Loki, eh lp? That's ok. If we fight, it won't be about magic anyway. Or will it? Bwahaha...

-DM

ahh, so things become more clear . . . hehehe

this tourney crack me up.

Now for a more serious argument for Loki (gotta protect my boy)...

Strange has some access to powerful magics, but Loki's is more versatile because it is inherent within him. His Marvel bio says he's created dragons out of clouds...sounds to me like some magical matter manipulation. If that's true then creating duplicates, numerous distractions and alterations, or changing the environment of a fight to suit his needs is not out of the realm of possibility.

He's also given magical powers to people, can moonwalk between dimensions (mainly Asgard and our dimension), and has pretty much anything else that Strange might throw at him (telepathy, telekinesis, teleporting...running out of 't' powers, etc).

And being inherent within him, he will not only be more comfortable with his magic, but he'll be able to use it more quickly most of the time. In a long, drawn-out fight, I'd take Loki.

-DM

Originally posted by DigiMark007
Now for a more serious argument for Loki (gotta protect my boy)...

Strange has some access to powerful magics, but Loki's is more versatile because it is inherent within him. His Marvel bio says he's created dragons out of clouds...sounds to me like some magical matter manipulation. If that's true then creating duplicates, numerous distractions and alterations, or changing the environment of a fight to suit his needs is not out of the realm of possibility.

He's also given magical powers to people, can moonwalk between dimensions (mainly Asgard and our dimension), and has pretty much anything else that Strange might throw at him (telepathy, telekinesis, teleporting...running out of 't' powers, etc).

And being inherent within him, he will not only be more comfortable with his magic, but he'll be able to use it more quickly most of the time. In a long, drawn-out fight, I'd take Loki.

-DM
Strange’s magic is stronger than Loki's his power is derived from God's that are beyond, in different dimensions.

Strange has defeated magical beings that are much stronger than Loki.

Originally posted by kgkg
Strange’s magic is stronger than Loki's his power is derived from God's that are beyond, in different dimensions.

Strange has defeated magical beings that are much stronger than Loki. trueOriginally posted by kgkg
Stange wins indeed grasshoppercharacter50

Stranger is more powerful with magic, Stranger takes this.

Originally posted by Mainstream
true indeed grasshoppercharacter50
grasshopper?

Originally posted by kgkg
grasshopper?

character50 did not mean to offend you.

Has it been explicitly stated that Loki can't call upon great magical deities, or does he just not do it?

One big advantage that Loki has over Strange in this fight is that his magic is inherent. Most people forget the fact that the power Strange receives from other entities is NOT guaranteed. They can choose to provide power or not. The Vishanti refused to grant Strange power during the whole Shuma Gorath/Sligguth affair (although they did provide some assistance). When Salome was fighting Strange and she was going to destroy the earth, the Vishanti rescinded their agreement to provide her with power. It's never a guarantee to rely on someone else's power.

That said, if Strange's mystical crew has his back, he can counter pretty much anything that Loki can throw at him.

Magic battles are almost never won by power. They're won by skill, craft, and lots of subterfuge. Both Loki and Strange have these in spades...

Loki doesn't need to call on higher magical dieties.
He is one.
Loki would destroy Dr. Strange in a straight-up battle.

He didn't when they first met, and Strange wasn't nearly as powerful then.

When they first met, Dr. Strange was fighting a HOLOGRAM
created by Loki. It wasn't nearly as powerful as the real Loki.
Strange still was getting defeated by Loki's self-hologram.
If it wasn't for Thor's intervention, Strange would be dead.

I guess Loki could call on Dormammu. They've worked together before, and if it means the destruction of strange, he'll surely be happy to assist.

Originally posted by Zahit
When they first met, Dr. Strange was fighting a HOLOGRAM
created by Loki. It wasn't nearly as powerful as the real Loki.
Strange still was getting defeated by Loki's self-hologram.
If it wasn't for Thor's intervention, Strange would be dead.

Good point

Dr Strange would win i think He beat Shuma Gorath for crying out loud!

Originally posted by Zahit
When they first met, Dr. Strange was fighting a HOLOGRAM
created by Loki. It wasn't nearly as powerful as the real Loki.
Strange still was getting defeated by Loki's self-hologram.
If it wasn't for Thor's intervention, Strange would be dead.

!

He faught Loki personally and he faught the hologram. It's right here in front of me.

Strange was so inexperienced he didn't know if Thor or Loki were evil, he didn't even know who they were.

Also, he had only been training in the mystic arts for less than 5 years, he didn't have the authentic Eye of Aggamotto or any spells to invoke higher gods (aggamotto eternity ect.).
All he had was his cape and a few spells(he had no book of vishanti) he wasn't even the Sorcerer Supreme yet.

Loki stalemated, and finally beat a young unexperienced Strange.

Who has more experience is hard to tell, Loki has been around for thousands of years, but so has Strange.

Strange spent many thousand years fighting in the 7 sphere war, against beings on par with Loki himself, add that to all the thousands of years experience The Ageless one gave to Strange when Strange became SS, Strange is more likely more experienced in magic than Loki.

Part of being Sorcerer Supreme is being allowed to invoke the power of Gods, only Strange and a few others can.
Loki can't invoke anyone whatsoever, he is limited to only his inheret magic.

Ok, now that's over......I can say that Loki might could take Strange if it was a head to head battle where he had no prep or no idea who he was fighting.
More likely a stalemate.

Agreed longpig. Strange might pull out a win, but most likely a stalemate...and it would depend on the circumstances. More prep would favor Strange most likely.

But now I'm aware that Loki can create holograms. Hehe...thanks for making this thread.

-DM

yup, those holograms are effective.
but only against people who can be fooled by illusions.

P.S Stalemate was an Olive Branch, Strange would OWN him.

Originally posted by DigiMark007
Agreed longpig. Strange might pull out a win, but most likely a stalemate...and it would depend on the circumstances. More prep would favor Strange most likely.

But now I'm aware that Loki can create holograms. Hehe...thanks for making this thread.

-DM
The Eye of Agomotto pierces any illusion. Strange would own Loki. He has more knowledge, power, connections, and artifacts.

Originally posted by Cosmic Cube
The Eye of Agomotto pierces any illusion. Strange would own Loki.

Own is going a bit too far. Loki is a still a god-sorceror with centuries of experience. I think we're falling in love with Strange a bit too much here. Even if Strange wins this fight, it would take time, and Loki would put up a helluva fight.

Besides, I'm not planning on using illusions against "Big Sexy" (longpig's amalgam). But it's a nice trick to have up my sleeve anyway. I got bigger and more nefarious plans for lp (smiles evilly).

-DM

True, that's why he lost when they faught the first time.
He didn't have any of his artifacts, or experience.....I don't even see him being able to levetate in this whole book.

Originally posted by DigiMark007
Own is going a bit too far. Loki is a still a god-sorceror with centuries of experience. I think we're falling in love with Strange a bit too much here. Even if Strange wins this fight, it would take time, and Loki would put up a helluva fight.

Besides, I'm not planning on using illusions against "Big Sexy" (longpig's amalgam). But it's a nice trick to have up my sleeve anyway. I got bigger and more nefarious plans for lp (smiles evilly).

-DM

Loki cannot match the power of the Vishanti, Agomotto, Cyttorak, Wattomb, and the host of other entites Strange can invoke. His best bet is summoning Dormammu, and that isn't enough.

Loki's magic isn't even innate. He's not a born god; he's a dwarf Frost Giant. The only reason he presents such a problem to the likes of Thor is that he uses Asgardian magic. If it weren't for Odin, he'd be nothing but a good stage magician/prankster.

Originally posted by long pig
Only Sorcerer Supreme can call upon the high up yucky yucks.
I'm sure all high level sorcs can do that. Doom has used the crimson bands hasn't he?

Originally posted by long pig
True, that's why he lost when they faught the first time.
He didn't have any of his artifacts, or experience.....I don't even see him being able to levetate in this whole book.

Does he even have the Cloak of Levitation back then?

Originally posted by Swanky-Tuna
I'm sure all high level sorcs can do that. Doom has used the crimson bands hasn't he?

Yeah, I'm definite that most experienced sorcerers can call on the higher dieties... In "Triumph and Torment", Strange mentioned to the sorcerers in the battle "No point in calling on the Vishanti for help, it's their power that were fighting" or something similar. Now, whether a deity like Loki can call on another deity for help is another matter.

Originally posted by Swanky-Tuna
I'm sure all high level sorcs can do that. Doom has used the crimson bands hasn't he?
He tried, but failed.
Strange told Doom he couldn't caste them correctly even with trickery.

Only the privledged few can call upon the vishanti and eternity and the real big dogs, very few.
Others can try(like doom) but they will either fail to some extent, or the god won't grant them the power.

As for Loki being a god, it's true, but means little.
Because Strange has been called "a god, all but by blood", he has the whole immortality deal and all.
He can't die permanently unless he feels he should, via Eternity's deal with him.



He has a cloak, but he doesn't seem to use it.
This was like his 10 appearence or so.

At any rate, "Sorcerer Supreme" has a meaning. Strange at full power beats the heck outta Loki at full power.

is anybody backing Loki?

Originally posted by kgkg
is anybody backing Loki?

Not that I know of. With god status, I don't think he can invoke extradimensional entities. He basically leeches off of Odin.

I wonder if he can invoke other deities. I mean, if he's leeching off of Odin's power, he already is using someone else's power in his magic. I think it kinda depends on if his power source is exhaustible or not. The great mystical deities generate their own power, and decide whether someone else can or cannot use it. So say Strange invokes the Vishanti. I don't see why Loki couldn't call for power from Dormammu, Mephisto, Satannish, Shuma Gorath, etc.

BTW, hasn't Loki been shown giving some of his power to Thor? Was that magic or just strength?

but strange has beaten dormammu before, and hes held mephisto in magical chains, both these beings are higher than loki, not to mention that he was the one with whose help basically earth managed to get rid of galactus once.

Strange seemingly K.O'd Galactus for a second with one blast once as well.
Galactus falls from space and nearly crashes to earth, then tells Strange that he would like to see what it'd take to beat him, but he hasn't the time.

Seriously, could Loki do that?

Originally posted by long pig
He faught Loki personally and he faught the hologram. It's right here in front of me.



Sounds good, what's that from?

Strange Tales #123
I don't think Strange was even Ancient One's aprentice yet.
Strange was just a kid with 2 spells.
The Mordo attack happend in it too.

isn't Loki buddies with the likes of Mephisto and Pluto... and all the other devil type gods?.... wouldn't they lend him some power to get rid of Strange? .... i mean they all must be pretty sick of a human kicking their assess

Thanks long pig.

Maybe friends. but Strange has already defeated Mephisto.

Loki can't invoke powers from other gods. He never has.

Originally posted by long pig
Maybe friends. but Strange has already defeated Mephisto.

Loki can't invoke powers from other gods. He never has.

maybe not invoke..... but if he asks them nicely and tells them what it's for i bet they'd give him some power to get rid of Strange

Originally posted by long pig
Maybe friends. but Strange has already defeated Mephisto.

Loki can't invoke powers from other gods. He never has.

Just because he hasn't doesn't mean he can't, unless it's been explicitly stated. And as I said before, it's not about power. It's about how the game is played. Strange has had his butt handed to him many a time, but he comes out on top because he finds a way out, not because he overpowers his opponents. A perfect example is the Faust Gambit arc. He'd never be able to take both Mephisto and Satannish at the same time, but he tricked them.

Strange wasn't invovled in magic at all until after he became the Ancient One's apprentice, so the fight with Loki took place after his trip East an all of that.

Strange was also beaten by Dormammu when he joined his past and future selves (which is a bunch of BS). Anyhow, Dormammu KILLED Strange, so it's possible for him to be defeated.

Now I'm not saying that Loki can do it or can't do it. Stange is by boy after all. I'm just saying that it won't be easy for either character.

When he faught Loki the first time, he just finds mordo in the same comic, Mordo is the reason why Strange became the A.O's diciple.
(Mordo was wanting to kill AO, Strange found out, tried to fight him, got beat and chained, AO released Strange and said he knew Mordo's plans, told Strange he saw pureness in him and makes him his new deciple)

He wasn't yet AO's deciple yet, and was only training with him.

Originally posted by Cosmic Flame
Just because he hasn't doesn't mean he can't, unless it's been explicitly stated.

Similarly, probably the reason we haven't seen him use the the power of other deities is because he can't. It'd seem weird if mystic beings did that... like Agamotto invoking the Flames of the Faltine (Dormammu) or Mephisto using a Vishanti spell.

I'm pretty sure it has to do with artifacts as well.
You can't call upon the Vishanti without the book, Strange has the only copy, and it was passed down to him from the Ancient one.

Like, if Odin were to fight Zeus, would he be able to use the Crimson Bands of Cytorrak or invoke the Flames of the Faltine? It'd just seem strange if he could - calling on the power of another deity, probably even a rival deity, would be unseemly.