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Classic Adam Warlock



vs.



Wonderwoman

WW doesn't stand a chance. Duh.

Woah...no WW argument from Draco. I saw he posted and was ready for a scrap...oh well.

Warlock wins. He's put up shields that have taken hits from similar heavy-hitters and may not be as strong, but has a lot of different tactics at his disposal.

-DM

I may be WW fan. But I'm sensible. I know who she can and cannot defeat. A Silver-Surfer level character is out of her league.

Originally posted by Draco69
I may be WW fan. But I'm sensible. I know who she can and cannot defeat. A Silver-Surfer level character is out of her league.

Gotta admire this guy. Not every fan is this sensible.

Originally posted by Cosmic Cube
Gotta admire this guy. Not every fan is this sensible.

Thank You!

This is true. Not every fan has some sense.

*looks pointedly at Wolverine, Spider-Man, and Thing fanboys*

Originally posted by Draco69
Thank You!

This is true. Not every fan has some sense.

*looks pointedly at Wolverine, Spider-Man, and Thing fanboys*

You deserve it.

Not to give you a big head there Drac, but I'd agree. Pretty much everything you say is intelligently backed up. You're on my short-list of most trustworthy posters (a list I myself probably wouldn't be on...sometimes my fanboy-ism gets a hold of me). And when someone is as hot as WW, how can you blame anyone for being a fanboy.

-DM

someone please tell me WHY WW wouldn't be able to beat 'classic' warlock, considering hercules beat him down rather easily during an issue of the watch? what -REALLY- is the fascination of warlock on this forum? surfer level?? thor has beaten AW down many times. honestly, i like warlock - don't LOVE him, he's too . . . mystic (??) - for me, but explain this fascination with him on this forum, and tell me why ww couldn't beat him. please?

Originally posted by DigiMark007
Not to give you a big head there Drac, but I'd agree. Pretty much everything you say is intelligently backed up. You're on my short-list of most trustworthy posters (a list I myself probably wouldn't be on...sometimes my fanboy-ism gets a hold of me). And when someone is as hot as WW, how can you blame anyone for being a fanboy.

-DM

Thank you again. And from what I have seen you never post fanboy comments. I've heard you say you are a Spidey fan but you don't seem to let it get in the way of you sagacity. I treat your posts like gospel.

Wow. Nicest thing I've heard in a while...thanks Draco.

Let me try to shed some light on this for you leo, though I understand the confusion...Warlock isn't too far beyond WW, and we're probably making this fight seem more one-sided than it would really be. There was a good Superman vs. Warlock argument but I can't find it...the Warlock supporters in that one cited his energy/telekinetic shield that has taken blows from numerous powerful characters without damage and his power cosmic blasts, which always seem handy. At his best he's been able to completely telekinetically stop Thor's hammer...AW has fluctuated in power a bunch over the years, so this might not have always been the case...thus the muddy outcome of the fight. But he also has mid-level telepathy and strength enough to hurt WW even if he's not stronger than her.

At his best (or near his best) WW wouldn't be able to harm him.

Here's a good list of his stats...

Adam Warlock:
Height: 6 ft. 2 in.
Weight: 240 lbs.
Eyes: Red
Hair: Blond
Skin: Gold

Known Superhuman Powers: Adam Warlock possesses a number of superhuman properties and powers derived from his artificially determined genetic structure. His bone and muscle tissue is denser than human, endowing him with superhuman strength and resilience.

1. Strength Level: Adam Warlock possesses superhuman strength which he can increase even further by enhancing it with cosmic energy. Marvel directories list his strength at roughly 4 tons unenhanced - and 40 tons enhanced. This listing originates from the old handbooks - since then Warlock created new bodies for himself, pip, and gamora. Pip's new body raised his strength from a normal human - up to class 10 (perhaps higher). To what extent Warlock augmented his own strength is unknown, though since that time Warlock has been capable of doing battle with several class 100 entities. It is presumable he is at least capable of reaching class 70 or 80.

2. Durability: Warlock has an immense durability - which when he is tapping cosmic energy increases even further. He took multiple blows from the brother of Ulik, who was presumably class 90 - without being harmed. He is able to withstand lightning bolts, missles, bullets, and nuclear warheads. When at his maximum strength, Warlock is surrounded in a nimbus of energy.

3. Cosmic Power: Warlock has a fair ability to tap cosmic energy for personal uses. He is unable to manipulate it as well as the Silver Surfer, or tap quantities anywhere near those Thanos of Titan does. Normally Warlock uses his cosmic power for bolts of destructive force, and to enhance his own strength and durability. When channeled into a bolt, his maximum strength was capable of destroying an area the size of the Kremlin in a single shot.

4.) Travel: In an Earthlike atmosphere, Warlock was able to attain the speed of sound (770 miles per hour). He could use his cosmic energy to locate and enter natural space-warps (discontinuities in the fabric of space) in order to traverse interstellar space. Warlock is capable of flying faster than light in space - but he is not as fast as the Silver Surfer. He is also able to teleport short distances, but the greater the distance, the more taxing the teleportation effort. Once, in desperate need to return home, Warlock travelled into a black hole, and used it to appear closer to Earth.

6.) Mind Power: An early bid for psionics, Warlock had them in excess. His telepathy was able to pierce telepathic shielding, and his telekinesis able to block the hammer and blows of Thor with ease. He possesses a nearly invinicible telepathic shield around his mind - though psi's of Exodus, Sersi, Man-Beast strength are able to pierce this shield and affect his mind.

7.) Soul Affinity: Adam Warlock has demonstrated a close affinity to his own, and other, souls. This is likely because of his longstanding relationship with the soul gem. Even without the gem Warlock is able to sense another's soul - commune

One he's durable...

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v345/sifu1/gblast2.jpg

Two, he punk'd Mephisto easily in his own realm

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v345/sifu1/awar1.gif

With the Soul Gem he can send her into to the soul world, De-evolutionize her, Absorb her soul, produce shields,...here this will explain it better:



Battles powerful beings like this thing:

http://www.marvunapp.com/Appendix/ithral.htm

Ummm... He's faster, smarter, and has a ton of psionic power. WW would give him a good fight, but she'd eventually lose.

Warlock with the Soul Gem could give him a great edge, but Warlock's standard powers are a bit more powerful without it. The soul gem severely hindered his abilities. This is how he lost to Herc, and how he was able to shrug off the Karmic Blasts. Self confidence has a certain role in it as well. The more he focuses, the more powerful he is. Oh, and the battle with Thor, Warlock had the upper hand in the battle, but he was goaded by Thor and said he could not win without his psionic powers, and Thor was right. The things is, if Warlock had continued using his psionic abilities along with his other powers, Lady Sif would be Warlock's mate by now, and Thor would have gotten his a$$ handed to him. His psionic powers were strong enough to swat away the Mjlonir, I don't see why he couldn't do the same to WW.

good points, sentry and digi. those are some of the best descriptions i've seen of warlock. this is all relatively new, however. when was 'classic' warlock around?

diana also has high resistance to telepathy (never been real clear on her own telepathic powers, though it is clear she has some), would likely possess thor's resistance to the karmic blasts (which could be deflected anyway). the soul stealing thing is a ridiculous power, and what if diana tied him up before he used it? warlock would be as screwed as anyone in the lasso. AW powers are, as you said digi, inconsistent. i think the only way AW wins this outright is by stealing her soul which he is loathe to ever do. it would be difficult for her to harm him (though he's been hurt PLENTY of times in the past, so the description of that shield is a bit suspect imho) but all she needs is the chance to lasso him. she is worlds better in in experience, has god-like attributes and abilities and is among the best fighters/warriors in either universe. she lasso's him, she wins. he steals her soul he wins. which is more likely?

hmm, draco, i'm surprised you gave up so easily on this one.

The battle with Thor I'm talking about happened before he had the soul gem. The battle with Herc occured when he already had the soul gem. Don't get me wrong, Warlock is powerful, but he isn't Superman. In physical combat, Warlock would probably be severely beaten. With the vast array of his powers working together, he has a good chance of putting Diana down.

Originally posted by leonidas
good points, sentry and digi. those are some of the best descriptions i've seen of warlock. this is all relatively new, however. when was 'classic' warlock around?

diana also has high resistance to telepathy (never been real clear on her own telepathic powers, though it is clear she has some), would likely possess thor's resistance to the karmic blasts (which could be deflected anyway). the soul stealing thing is a ridiculous power, and what if diana tied him up before he used it? warlock would be as screwed as anyone in the lasso. AW powers are, as you said digi, inconsistent. i think the only way AW wins this outright is by stealing her soul which he is loathe to ever do. it would be difficult for her to harm him (though he's been hurt PLENTY of times in the past, so the description of that shield is a bit suspect imho) but all she needs is the chance to lasso him. she is worlds better in in experience, has god-like attributes and abilities and is among the best fighters/warriors in either universe. she lasso's him, she wins. he steals her soul he wins. which is more likely?

hmm, draco, i'm surprised you gave up so easily on this one.

I'm not so sure. Adam is probably on the same level as Dr. Destiny, and he was able to take away Wonder Woman's immortality. Karmic Blasts aren't his only weapon.

Draco might have though that Classic Adam is on the same level as Current Adam, but Classic Adam is still more than a match for Wonder Woman. I don't think the Lasso of Truth could overcome the Infinity Soul Gem.

Originally posted by Sentry
The battle with Thor I'm talking about happened before he had the soul gem. The battle with Herc occured when he already had the soul gem. Don't get me wrong, Warlock is powerful, but he isn't Superman. In physical combat, Warlock would probably be severely beaten. With the vast array of his powers working together, he has a good chance of putting Diana down.

Warlock was able to withstand a blast from Galactus. His durability is easily Superman-level. Defeating Mephisto in his realm proves a lot. As smart as Warlock is, you think he would resort to brawling?

Question: When has Diana displayed telepathic powers?

<<Question: When has Diana displayed telepathic powers?>>

her telepathic abilities are tied (no pun intended) to her lasso, and she has also been able to communicate with paradise island on occasion. as far as her resistance to telepathy goes, i think that would go a long way to deciding who would win this battle, although i seldom - in fact, can't come up with a time in my head - remember AW actually using psionics to defeat a foe. the battle with meph in resurrection was impressive (especially since even galactus couldn't do that) but (and this may sound strange) i think he would have an 'easier' time with someone like mephisto. why the hell would you say that?? well, earlier in the ltd series, he was about to be overwhelmed by a horde of simple demons! aw's 'area of expertise' seems to be 'spirits' of which meph is one. the soul gem allows ridiculous levels of control over these types of beings. that's why aw could beat meph but not galactus - galactus has no soul and is not a 'spirit', even though his power is about the same as meph's is in hell. it's why he couldn't defeat (even battle) odin. there are certain opponents aw was MADE to battle.

<<you think he would resort to brawling?>> honestly sentry, i'm not sure (short of stealing her soul) that he would have a choice. again i use thor and herc as examples. purely physical foes (like herc, thor, diana - odin and galactus are examples of higher order beings of this type) are outside this 'spirit' realm he deals with so effectively. i suppose he could steal her soul (i contested whether he could steal superman's or thor's or hercules' so i should remain consistent here and say i think she might resist) but regardless, if he is wrapped in the lasso first, he still could be screwed. i'll admit, it'd be interesting to see the lasso's effects on him though. but, as long as i'm playing devil's advocate, i'll say it WOULD bind him for this discussion. AW has been struck MANY MANY times physically (again, herc beat him down with fists, further casting doubt on that shield of his) so i don't see why diana couldn't do the same.

i guess ultimately i'll say the same thing for diana as i said for supes - if he can steal her soul he wins. if he cannot, i think diana ultimately takes this.

Originally posted by leonidas
<<Question: When has Diana displayed telepathic powers?>>

her telepathic abilities are tied (no pun intended) to her lasso, and she has also been able to communicate with paradise island on occasion. as far as her resistance to telepathy goes, i think that would go a long way to deciding who would win this battle, although i seldom - in fact, can't come up with a time in my head - remember AW actually using psionics to defeat a foe. the battle with meph in resurrection was impressive (especially since even galactus couldn't do that) but (and this may sound strange) i think he would have an 'easier' time with someone like mephisto. why the hell would you say that?? well, earlier in the ltd series, he was about to be overwhelmed by a horde of simple demons! aw's 'area of expertise' seems to be 'spirits' of which meph is one. the soul gem allows ridiculous levels of control over these types of beings. that's why aw could beat meph but not galactus - galactus has no soul and is not a 'spirit', even though his power is about the same as meph's is in hell. it's why he couldn't defeat (even battle) odin. there are certain opponents aw was MADE to battle.

<<you think he would resort to brawling?>> honestly sentry, i'm not sure (short of stealing her soul) that he would have a choice. again i use thor and herc as examples. purely physical foes (like herc, thor, diana - odin and galactus are examples of higher order beings of this type) are outside this 'spirit' realm he deals with so effectively. i suppose he could steal her soul (i contested whether he could steal superman's or thor's or hercules' so i should remain consistent here and say i think she might resist) but regardless, if he is wrapped in the lasso first, he still could be screwed. i'll admit, it'd be interesting to see the lasso's effects on him though. but, as long as i'm playing devil's advocate, i'll say it WOULD bind him for this discussion. AW has been struck MANY MANY times physically (again, herc beat him down with fists, further casting doubt on that shield of his) so i don't see why diana couldn't do the same.

i guess ultimately i'll say the same thing for diana as i said for supes - if he can steal her soul he wins. if he cannot, i think diana ultimately takes this.

Great points, leo. Wonder Woman has a better chance than we thought.

thanks cube. i just thought this was a great thread, and didn't want to see it ALL going one way. besides, i love playing the part of the underdog on this forum!

There's a difference between Classic and Current? Sorry guys. As I said before, cosmics are NOT my forte. WAYYYYYY to confusing for me. I stick to the earthbound characters.

Oh. and really good points Leonidas. I gave up because Warlock just seems so above Diana in terms of power.

Originally posted by Draco69
There's a difference between Classic and Current? Sorry guys. As I said before, cosmics are NOT my forte. WAYYYYYY to confusing for me. I stick to the earthbound characters.

BIG difference. Current Adam exists beyond the multiverse.

Originally posted by Cosmic Cube
BIG difference. Current Adam exists beyond the multiverse.

Really. But Classic still has the Soul Gem, right?

Originally posted by leonidas
thanks cube. i just thought this was a great thread, and didn't want to see it ALL going one way. besides, i love playing the part of the underdog on this forum!


Me too.

Originally posted by Draco69
Really. But Classic still has the Soul Gem, right?

Yeah.

Originally posted by Cosmic Cube


Question: When has Diana displayed telepathic powers?

Kinda. She can telepathically "communicate" with animals like Aquaman does to fish. And she has a link with her mother, Cassie, Troia and the Greek Pantheon. Her telepathy has never been truly explained. She has been on the astral plane though.

Originally posted by Cosmic Cube
Yeah.

Then Diana is ****ed.

Originally posted by Draco69
Kinda. She can telepathically "communicate" with animals like Aquaman does to fish. And she has a link with her mother, Cassie, Troia and the Greek Pantheon. Her telepathy has never been truly explained. She has been on the astral plane though.

I forgot all about that. She does talk to animals via her connection with the Earth.

Originally posted by Draco69
Then Diana is ****ed.

Why do you say that?

Originally posted by Cosmic Cube
Why do you say that?

I know enough about cosmics then to argue against the gems. The Soul Gem can absorb souls. And Diana has a soul. That's how she died the first time. Neron attempted to absorb her soul. Her soul was somehow "special" and it didn't happen. However the process killed her. Even the combined efforts of the JLA and the purple healing ray couldn't heal her. Soul-stealing just happens to be her kryptonite.

Originally posted by Draco69
I know enough about cosmics then to argue against the gems. The Soul Gem can absorb souls. And Diana has a soul. That's how she died the first time. Neron attempted to absorb her soul. Her soul was somehow "special" and it didn't happen. However the process killed her. Even the combined efforts of the JLA and the purple healing ray couldn't heal her. Soul-stealing just happens to be her kryptonite.

Wow. I guess you were right in the first place.

Soul stealing is everyones Kryptonite isn't it?
Unless you don't have one, you're screwed.

Originally posted by long pig
Soul stealing is everyones Kryptonite isn't it?
Unless you don't have one, you're screwed.

That's very true.

I believe he could beat her without it, she may have a small amount of telepathy, but not enough to push back Warlocks.

<<Soul-stealing just happens to be her kryptonite.>>

damn, all that arguing for naught . . .

however, as you said, her soul is 'special', so maybe . . .

but probably not. still doesn't mean she can't nail him with the lasso first though. they both seem to have a trump card here, just who plays it first. (course his it seems WILL work, while we're usure what would happen to AW in the lasso . . .) ah well, it was a fun debate . . .

Originally posted by leonidas
<<Soul-stealing just happens to be her kryptonite.>>

damn, all that arguing for naught . . .

however, as you said, her soul is 'special', so maybe . . .

but probably not. still doesn't mean she can't nail him with the lasso first though. they both seem to have a trump card here, just who plays it first. (course his it seems WILL work, while we're usure what would happen to AW in the lasso . . .) ah well, it was a fun debate . . .

lol. If Draco says WW loses, she loses.

Originally posted by long pig
I believe he could beat her without it, she may have a small amount of telepathy, but not enough to push back Warlocks.

You are very right longpig. Without the soul gem, his standard powers were more than a match more Thor. His psionic powers easily swatted away Thor's Mjlonir. Thor then goaded on how Warlock wouldn't be able to stop him without it. Thor then went into sort off a Berserker mode and thrashed Warlock. Warlock is not unbeatable. She could very well goad him into battling her without his powers, but the odds of that now are slim to none. Like I said before, the Soul Gem severely hinders his standard base powers:

Height: 6 ft. 2 in.
Weight: 240 lbs.
Eyes: Red
Hair: Blond
Skin: Gold

Known Superhuman Powers: Adam Warlock possesses a number of superhuman properties and powers derived from his artificially determined genetic structure. His bone and muscle tissue is denser than human, endowing him with superhuman strength and resilience.

1. Strength Level: Adam Warlock possesses superhuman strength which he can increase even further by enhancing it with cosmic energy. Marvel directories list his strength at roughly 4 tons unenhanced - and 40 tons enhanced. This listing originates from the old handbooks - since then Warlock created new bodies for himself, pip, and gamora. Pip's new body raised his strength from a normal human - up to class 10 (perhaps higher). To what extent Warlock augmented his own strength is unknown, though since that time Warlock has been capable of doing battle with several class 100 entities. It is presumable he is at least capable of reaching class 70 or 80.

Strength Limitations: Warlock's strength is enhanced through cosmic power (and in some cases by drawing energy from the soul gem). While it is nearly impossible for him to exhaust himself, it would be possible were his stored energies drained. Warlock's strength is phenomenal, but he has yet to physically best a being such as Thor or Thanos.


2. Durability: Warlock has an immense durability - which when he is tapping cosmic energy increases even further. He took multiple blows from the brother of Ulik, who was presumably class 90 - without being harmed. He is able to withstand lightning bolts, missiles, bullets, and nuclear warheads. When at his maximum strength, Warlock is surrounded in a nimbus of energy. He has not, however, reached this peak of durability is quite some time.

Durability Limitations: When unacquainted with his new body, Warlock was easily defeated by smaller explosions and blows. This is likely because he was not channeling cosmic energy. Also, with exposure to his gem - Warlock's durability seems to decrease. He proved wholly incapable of besting Maxam or Thor in hand to hand combat. Warlock's durability seems to have a relation to his concentration as well - so when unprepared he is only slightly more durable than normal beings.


Among his body's special adaptations was an enclave of cells able to tap and transform cosmic energy for personal use. Warlock could use this energy to enhance his physical strength, endurance, and powers of recuperation. He could also employ cosmic energy to negate the force of gravity beneath him, enabling him to fly.

3. Cosmic Power: Warlock has a fair ability to tap cosmic energy for personal uses. He is unable to manipulate it as well as the Silver Surfer, or tap quantities anywhere near those Thanos of Titan does. Normally Warlock uses his cosmic power for bolts of destructive force, and to enhance his own strength and durability. When channeled into a bolt, his maximum strength was capable of destroying an area the size of the Kremlin in a single shot.

Cosmic Power Limitations: The stored cosmic power is what actually allows Warlock to function. If his power is drained from him, Warlock will become weaker. Moondragon once built a device capable of 'shutting off' Kismet (Warlock's genetic twin) and her stored energy. This caused her to collapse, unable to move. Her durability also dropped to that of a normal human while the effect was occurring. Warlock can expel his cosmic reserves faster than they regenerate, thus weakening him over time.



4.) Travel: In an Earth like atmosphere, Warlock was able to attain the speed of sound (770 miles per hour). He could use his cosmic energy to locate and enter natural space-warps (discontinuities in the fabric of space) in order to traverse interstellar space. Warlock is capable of flying faster than light in space - but he is not as fast as the Silver Surfer. He is also able to teleport short distances, but the greater the distance, the more taxing the teleportation effort. Once, in desperate need to return home, Warlock travelled into a black hole, and used it to appear closer to Earth.


5.) Energy Manipulation: Adam Warlock has demonstrated the ability to use his cosmic powers to affect energy and matter. The extent of this ability is unknown, but he was capable, with the soul gems aid, of turning Thanos of Titan to stone. The fact that Thanos, as a titan external, was able to control his own molecular structure suggests Warlock has a great degree of ability in this area. Normally, however, Warlock uses the soul gem itself for such feats. This could be related to the fact that the soul gem appears to have weakened his personal attributes.

Energy Manipulation Limitations: None that I know off


6.) Mind Power: An early bid for psionics, Warlock had them in excess. His telepathy was able to pierce telepathic shielding, and his telekinesis able to block the hammer and blows of Thor with ease. He possesses a nearly invincible telepathic shield around his mind - though psi's of Exodus, Sersi, Man-Beast strength are able to pierce this shield and affect his mind.

Mind Power Limitations: Warlock infrequently uses his psionic abilities since gaining the soul gem. He has, however, used it against Quasar to force illusions upon him. It is unclear exactly how Warlock's mind functions, but it was apparently complex enough to be too great a distraction during the Infinity Gauntlet while he fought the heroes.


7.) Soul Affinity: Adam Warlock has demonstrated a close affinity to his own, and other, souls. This is likely because of his longstanding relationship with the soul gem. Even without the gem Warlock is able to sense another's soul - commune with it - and possibly affect it. He can commit exorcisms within a body as well.

Soul Affinity Limitations: He does not often use these abilities - and it can be assumed that they are at least in some fashion augmented by the gem itself.

These base powers are increased to more efficient levels without the Soul Gem. WW still wouldn't be able to beat him him.

Hehe...same stuff I posted on Pg. 1 Sentry. In any case, if he's been able to telekinetically stop Mjolnir, I don't see how Diana would harm him much at all. Really the only advantage WW has is strength (and the lasso) and given all that Warlock can do, strength doesn't seem so "strong" in this fight.

-DM

Adam Warlock wins 7/10

seems pertinent -- and it's really fun looking back at these old debates from time to time, so . . .

bumpity-bump-bump.

How does Warlock Do against People who fight at light speed? This is the first question I need to know.

Soul Gem? HIM? Digi's God-Warlock from the tourney?

They all beat Diana.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
How does Warlock Do against People who fight at light speed? This is the first question I need to know.

well, he's beaten ss -- twice . . .