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Dr. Strange managed to defeat SW rather easily. Can Dr. Fate do the same?

Yes.

I've never seen a good description of Fate's powers. And I've never seen him do much in any comic, even though I'm a JSA fan and have read a decent amount of their stuff. I know Nabu is crazy-powerful but it always seems so vague about what exactly his avatars (Dr. Fate) can do. What exactly can/can't he do?

-DM

Originally posted by DigiMark007
I've never seen a good description of Fate's powers. And I've never seen him do much in any comic, even though I'm a JSA fan and have read a decent amount of their stuff. I know Nabu is crazy-powerful but it always seems so vague about what exactly his avatars (Dr. Fate) can do. What exactly can/can't he do?

-DM

I thought Nabu was female.

I don't think Dr. Strange and Dr. Fate are on the same level, either.

Coulda sworn he met Nabu in a recent JSA (far into the past) and it was a dude. Could be wrong though. I'm a JSA fan, but not an expert.

Saying that Dr.Strange defeated "easily" Scarlet Witch and therefore Fate could do it as well is like saying that Xavier defeated Jean as Dark Phoenix in Uxm 135 and therefore he should spank Galactus.
He only won on skill and taking advantage of her schizophrenia ,but she is vastly more powerful.Strange never had the power to influence reality at the level she does.
Even in Coma she costantly continues to rearrange reality.In the last Excalibur issue the Doctor was bothering her and she subconsciously drew Dormammu from the Dark Dimension and threw it at him.

WOW damn thats powerful but Dr Fate is more powerful then Dr Strange He even beat The Spectre.

Originally posted by Draco69
Dr. Strange managed to defeat SW rather easily. Can Dr. Fate do the same? I dont know much about Dr. Fate but I would assume he could being Strange did it.

Originally posted by Mider
WOW damn thats powerful but Dr Fate is more powerful then Dr Strange He even beat The Spectre.

The Spectre wasn't anywhere near full power. He was rouge. Fate held him off. Zauriel did the same thing. Fate isn't more powerful than Strange.

Spectre didn't look to intimidating with that overgrown mallet did he? Zauriel stared him down.

Strange didn't want to hurt her, he just mind wiped her.
But, he also seemed kinda scared because he knew what she could be capable of.

Strange could easily stand up to her reality control, but only if he knows she's doing it.....and it seems like she's been doing it slowly for the past 10 years unchecked....!!!!! Who knows what she's been changing.

Fate could take her.
Nabu is a darkskinned dude, with a full beard and crazy hair.

Dr Fate is as powerful as Dr Strange even more so maybe.

Originally posted by Mider
Dr Fate is as powerful as Dr Strange even more so maybe.

Of course he isn't. All his power comes from Nabu. Strange has so many artifacts and resources, it's ridiculous. Strange is the Sorcerer Supreme of the multiverse. He is leagues above Fate.

Stopping the Spectre isn't much of a feat unless Spectre is being impowered by the Presence.

Strange is only the Sorcerer Supreme of the Earth's Dimension.I'm not sure this means the entire physical Universe,or there can be other sorcerer supremes in distant galaxies.Surely there are many alternate SS in the multiverse.In one reality Ororo was the sorcerer supreme.
And he does not know how to handle Wanda reality warping,everything he tried has failed,even if she's still in a coma.Thats why we'll have a few months of House of M.

Ororo was a sorcerer supreme? You mean in an elseworld?

The Ancient One implied that Strange was the most powerful sorcerer in this dimension, or any other.

yeah she was. she tapped into the magical energies of all her ancestors. every women in her family tree was a very powerful priestess. she was very powerful and easily bested belasco while he was in limbo

wat is scarlet witches powers i forgot

Originally posted by black wolverine
wat is scarlet witches powers i forgot

She manipulates reality

Strange is Sorcerer Supreme of the Universe, not just earth.
Guardians of the Galaxy talks about this, and how Krugarr is the next Sorcerer Supreme of the Universe(future diciple of Strange).

In continuity, there is no one in our dimention who is a better sorcerer.
There is more powerful, but no one is as skilled.

Originally posted by markolin
And he does not know how to handle Wanda reality warping,everything he tried has failed,even if she's still in a coma.Thats why we'll have a few months of House of M.

Hard to believe, seeing he could handle the reality altering abilities of the I.G two different times, once with Nebula, once with Warlock.

He didn't want to hurt Wanda, he never faught her. He simply mind wiped her, and told the Avengers to get her mental help, but they didn't so here we are.

Now, after years and years of small tinkering from her reality warping powers could he revert it all? I don't know, because they haven't actually said where her power actually stems from.

I'm biting my nails to see what goes on in H.O.M, Strange better play a major part in it though, or I'll be pissed about pre-ordering it.

He won't. God knows Wolverine will save the day. Wanda' s only weakness HAS to be adamantium claws.

I am still unconvinced, long pig you have made a lot of statements that because Dr Strange invokes other gods "he" is more powerful......hmmmm.

The full face helmet (not the half face) gives whoever wears it the power of Nabu. "Whoever wears the helmet is Fate", a common DC quote.

hmmmmmmm

What do they mean by this?

Stange has milennia of experience.....agreed
The helmet of Nabu has milennia of experience, it allows Fate to invoke other Gods also if we need to go down that root.

If we use Wizard as every one does for Surfer v Superman, they suggest that Strange wins by removing the helmet. This would indeed render Fate helpless. However I feel this is a cowards way out, and like there suggestion for Superman/ Surfer renders thee point of the battle void if it is used.

Back to the point of this thread could The power of Nabu defeat the Scarlet Witch, Yes probably

Keep the faith

"Strange" is the best version of D Strange so far, read it

Unconvinced as to what? I'm not trying to convince you of anything.
But ok, I'll try now.


Yes, so?
Strange can call upon Eternity, and can be granted his power, or call upon the other 1000 Gods that make Nabu look like David Blaine.

Nabu isn't on the level of Strange's gods, and Nabu hasn't had the training Strange himself has had, nor does he have any of the countless uber-powerful artifacts.
Fate is a one trick pony, Strange is a billion trick pony.


Who has been around longer is debatable, but who has more experience in hardcore magic fighting, Strange gets it.

Invoke others? Who? When? What was the context?
Let's go down that road.



I don't really rely on Wizard, they made a few mistakes on that top 10 thing. They said Surfer could beat Strange by a speedblitz, but didn't take into account Strange has perma-shields up at all times that can take anything Surfer can dish out.

Any Strange could easily remove Fate's helmet, why not?
But if it came down to a fight without that weakness, Strange would still win more than lose.
Fate isn't protected from being tossed into another dimention.

OK lets go down that road

Fate has invoked the total power of Order before, this is the power of all the lords of order, all of whom are godlike beings. On various occasions especially in the late eighties and early nineties.

Originally posted by long pig
Unconvinced as to what? I'm not trying to convince you of anything.
But ok, I'll try now.


Yes, so?
Strange can call upon Eternity, and can be granted his power, or call upon the other 1000 Gods that make Nabu look like David Blaine.

Nabu isn't on the level of Strange's gods, and Nabu hasn't had the training Strange himself has had, nor does he have any of the countless uber-powerful artifacts.
Fate is a one trick pony, Strange is a billion trick pony.


Who has been around longer is debatable, but who has more experience in hardcore magic fighting, Strange gets it.

Invoke others? Who? When? What was the context?
Let's go down that road.



I don't really rely on Wizard, they made a few mistakes on that top 10 thing. They said Surfer could beat Strange by a speedblitz, but didn't take into account Strange has perma-shields up at all times that can take anything Surfer can dish out.

Any Strange could easily remove Fate's helmet, why not?
But if it came down to a fight without that weakness, Strange would still win more than lose.
Fate isn't protected from being tossed into another dimention.

Dear god if the scarlet witch is now stronger than Dr.Strange im GLAD i gave up Marvel forever.Everything with the wordr "X" in the title should be burned so as not to tarnish Marvels good years

Marvel comics RIP 1963-2000

Anyways Dr.Fate is pretty high end on the power scale heck look what Mordru did in Princes of Darkness to the entire planet and look at how easily Fate picked him apart once he got his control back.I say he whips The Beyond.......Onslau..err Franklin rich....err the present bad overpowered storyline marvel is running which eventually be retroconned out of existence with a "Unimaginable power?What unimaginable power?" explanation sseveral years later

Nice post, obviously an experienced comic reader, cool to have you onboard EvilCap Originally posted by EvilCap America
Dear god if the scarlet witch is now stronger than Dr.Strange im GLAD i gave up Marvel forever.Everything with the wordr "X" in the title should be burned so as not to tarnish Marvels good years

Marvel comics RIP 1963-2000

Anyways Dr.Fate is pretty high end on the power scale heck look what Mordru did in Princes of Darkness to the entire planet and look at how easily Fate picked him apart once he got his control back.I say he whips The Beyond.......Onslau..err Franklin rich....err the present bad overpowered storyline marvel is running which eventually be retroconned out of existence with a "Unimaginable power?What unimaginable power?" explanation sseveral years later

Originally posted by whirlysplat
OK lets go down that road

Fate has invoked the total power of Order before, this is the power of all the lords of order, all of whom are godlike beings. On various occasions especially in the late eighties and early nineties.

Not anymore, most of them do not like Fate. As shown in JLA the Nail#3.
He could never do that again.

Originally posted by whirlysplat
Nice post, obviously an experienced comic reader, cool to have you onboard EvilCap

Thank you very much im glad to be here

You wanted to go down that road and asked for an example, I gave it

Order would still back fate

Originally posted by long pig
Not anymore, most of them do not like Fate. As shown in JLA the Nail#3.
He could never do that again.

The Order said they wouldn't, therefore, I'd guess they probably wouldn't.

And, still.....not enough to defeat a Avatar of Eternity Strange.
If that is Fate's biggest trump card, he's got even less of a chance against Strange.
If it came down to h2h, Fate is superstrong.....but Strange can amp his physical with magic....so I don't even know if Fate could take it there either.

But the thread is about the Scarlet Witch and fate takes her. The idea that Strange is an an avatar of Eternity kinda messes up the idea his a magician and I hope with the present revamp of marvel going on this gets sorted

Sidebar: BigSexy your choice of amalgam character hmmmm................................. fascinating
Originally posted by long pig
The Order said they wouldn't, therefore, I'd guess they probably wouldn't.

And, still.....not enough to defeat a Avatar of Eternity Strange.
If that is Fate's biggest trump card, he's got even less of a chance against Strange.
If it came down to h2h, Fate is superstrong.....but Strange can amp his physical with magic....so I don't even know if Fate could take it there either.

I didnt like disassembled and I wont like House of M.But Wanda has clearly now been written with much more raw power.Strange invokes cosmic entities,he cannot call upon them as if they were his servants.There are always consequences,always a price to pay for their help.When he refused to help the Vishanti they stripped him of nearly all his powers and had to search different sources of magic.
Wanda has manipulated the In-betweener and brought Dormammu (who didnt know why he was there and was mightily pissed off) to Earth in her sleep.Strange could not have directly manipulated cosmic beings like that.
And his powers on the physical plane are limited.He certainly cannot snap his fingers and rearrange reality at will.And both in the Defenders and his series,his magic has not a very good record against reality warpers (kulan gath,cosmic cubes,alpha the ultimate mutant,Orggo).

He did very well against the reality warping of the I.G though.
He invokes them, and normally they allow it.
The only times they do not is when he has pissed them off in the past.

And that Dormamu was supposedly not real, it was a fake via Wanda's reality warping.

Most of the things that have been happening with Wanda lately were just her powers going wacky.
It's all fake, she pulled Dormammu's image from Strange's mind and yada yada.

Anyways, Wanda may have all the raw power in the world, but she lacks any of the knowledge to use it effectively, and Strange could take her.*

*But we don't know exactly where her magic is coming from, so it's possible it isn't even magic.

Chaos maybe and Lords of Order well...................................paint your own pic on who is perfect to take her down, better yet heres one I found!

Fate could take her, definatly.

Yes,I think it is not magic.Seems reality warping through exponential growth of her probability powers.Thats why is so difficult to handle.Fact is,now it goes on even if she's unconscious or dreaming.So,as HoM 1 suggests,either you kill her for good or you could literally wake up a different person tomorrow.

Plus,while I m not an experts of Fate,Wanda's powers manipulate chaos and order.She could manipulate the 2 chaos-order halves of the In-betweener.I think there is a good chance she could scramble Fates powers.

Originally posted by markolin
Yes,I think it is not magic.Seems reality warping through exponential growth of her probability powers.Thats why is so difficult to handle.Fact is,now it goes on even if she's unconscious or dreaming.So,as HoM 1 suggests,either you kill her for good or you could literally wake up a different person tomorrow.

Strange dismissed her probability/hex/chaos magic as not even existing.

So, it's something else, it could have to do with Mephisto, he and Wanda have deep ties.

It could be something to do with Onslaught, maybe the shard is still in her.

But, I believe they will use her to seal up some loose ends and such dealing with the contintinuity, and blame it on her reality warping power being unchecked for so long.

I also think Magneto is dead, and Wanda has just been keeping his "image" around. How else does he keep returning after death?
He was killed by wolverine less than a few months ago.

No no, Chaos magic doesn't even exist in the Marvel Universe.

Originally posted by long pig
No no, Chaos magic doesn't even exist in the Marvel Universe.


hmmmmmmmmm............................................................................... so what your saying is fates magic is also completely alien to Doctor Strange. hmmmmmmmmm...........................................................................so how can you debate he would have a defence to it

Chaos Magic may not exist,still her powers had an effect on the In-Betweener and the way they worked,even in disassembled,remained the same.Highly unprobable events started to happen.Maybe it is connected to her being a nexus being.I dont see it as a stretch that she could unbalance the Lords of Order and Chaos.

So should we start the pool on how long it will be before Marvel De-powers Wanda to a non-cosmic non-idiotic level?

I say 6 months time enough for 1 bad story arc where some random X-Men does something that somehow no Avenger Herald of Galactus Soceror Supreme or Asgurdian could do

Originally posted by whirlysplat
hmmmmmmmmm............................................................................... so what your saying is fates magic is also completely alien to Doctor Strange. hmmmmmmmmm...........................................................................so how can you debate he would have a defence to it

No, Strange faught the living embodiment of Chaos, and won.

So, basically, he beat the God who Fate gets his power from.

But they aren't in the same universe.

Originally posted by long pig
No, Strange faught the living embodiment of Chaos, and won.

So, basically, he beat the God who Fate gets his power from.

But they aren't in the same universe.

So Chaos magic does exist in the Marvel Universe. I seemed to remember Chaos and Order a lot in the 70's but they are abstract beings. In the crossover JLA/ Avnegers it was indicated Chaos magic is stronger in DC. No Fate gets his power from Nabu a lord of order, or the Lords of order not an abstract single entity. So the magic rules are different in Marvel and DC.

And your right its different universes


Keep the faith

Know your comics

Catastrophy magic exists, Chaos magic doesn't.
The being he faught was the living imbodiment of Chaos, the actual god of Chaos.

The rules are different in MU though, a guy like Nabu wouldn't be worth worshiping in the MU.
Dormammu would probably stomp him.

Catastrophy magic is basically Chaos magic, but different names, and Strange is a master at Catastrophy magic, he even started using it when the Vishanti were mad at him.

Originally posted by long pig
Catastrophy magic exists, Chaos magic doesn't.
The being he faught was the living imbodiment of Chaos, the actual god of Chaos.

The rules are different in MU though, a guy like Nabu wouldn't be worth worshiping in the MU.
Dormammu would probably stomp him.

Catastrophy magic is basically Chaos magic, but different names, and Strange is a master at Catastrophy magic, he even started using it when the Vishanti were mad at him.

Its not the same though we have established that. And Lord Chaos and Master Order or is it the other way around are abstract concepts.
Strange being an expert in the weaker according t JLA/avengrs Chaos magic of marvel means nothing to the stronger DC version