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These two are my favorite FF characters.

Who wins?

ooo good battle

they r my favorite people 2

Squall's Lionheart DOES do more damage. However I'm leaning on Cloud.

where do u get the final fantasy icon thins?

The Squall icon was available by KMC forums itself. It's in the avatar section. Go to the FAQs at the top of the screen.

The Seifer? I completely forgot. Go to Google. And look up "Final Fantasy Animated GIFS" You'll eventually find it. Or something better even.

thnx alot ur the best dude and like the 50th person i've asked but u responded thnx alot

found em

Who ever does there final move first wins. Lionheart vs. Onislash!

u mean omnislash right?

Originally posted by Hooverman
u mean omnislash right?

Right.

how do u add the gif?

hahahaha how do u add GIFS?

squall would probably win but cloud's omnislash is cooler

wat do u like better ff7 or ff8 personally i like ff7

I like both.

FF8 had a terrible story. But likable characters.

FF7 I enjoyed the most.

Originally posted by Draco69
FF8 had a terrible story. But likable characters.

FF7 I enjoyed the most.

I actually loved the story.

i didn't finish either almost though

i would have to say squall

and hooverman stop spamming the forum or ill report this to the mods.

wat do u mean

Put everything you have to say in 1 post, instead of making 4 in a row.

Was this ever resolved? Bump, would like to know waht people think.

EDIT: Like a major bump :P

Anyone who has watched Advent Children and the Final Fantasy VIII intro would pretty much agree that Squall hardly stands a chance, in a practical battle that is.

Squall is cooler than Cloud.

You're not giving Squall enough credit. Squall was barely level 5 during the VIII intro.

This is something I got from another thread, which I did not write.


Cloud can combine Final Attack and Revive, both mastered, and be brought back to life 5 times. From there, W-Summon, Mp Absorb + Master Summon, HP Absorb + Knight of the Round, and mime makes Cloud able to perform a near infinite barrage of Knights of the round summons all while recovering his HP and MP after every summon

Is there anything that can make Squall just as powerful? Or is Squall doomed? I don't really know, I haven't played either games.

this is about the fith time this thread has been done..reporting..
edit..this might acutally be the first ever thread..it as just bumped...sorry..

Well...I actually should change that. Squall would stand a fairly good chance of winning in a practical match. We should not include any of their magic and summons because it just makes the battle more confusing and debatable...and more people would want to say who would win in a practical match. No one knows how long spells for each character actually take, and summons are aids to the character. So, those shouldn't be used. I haven't really seen Squall's true battle skills in Final Fantasy VIII, but in Kingdom Hearts II, he is a beast. That also goes for Cloud in Kingdom Hearts II. AC Cloud fights faster than Squall since he can wield multiple swords at once, though Squall's weapon is a Gunblade...and he can change it's form as shown in this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xh2wRaOonkY. As you can see, Squall's attacks pack a lot of power and have better range than Cloud's. Squall can also shoot fireballs out of his hands. Cloud would have to work a lot harder if he's using the Buster Sword. Overall, I would say Cloud has a 62% chance of winning whereas Squall has a 48% chance. I have to say though, Squall is much cooler than Cloud.

Originally posted by Cloud_VII
Well...I actually should change that. Squall would stand a fairly good chance of winning in a practical match. We should not include any of their magic and summons because it just makes the battle more confusing and debatable...and more people would want to say who would win in a practical match. No one knows how long spells for each character actually take, and summons are aids to the character. So, those shouldn't be used. I haven't really seen Squall's true battle skills in Final Fantasy VIII, but in Kingdom Hearts II, he is a beast. That also goes for Cloud in Kingdom Hearts II. AC Cloud fights faster than Squall since he can wield multiple swords at once, though Squall's weapon is a Gunblade...and he can change it's form as shown in this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xh2wRaOonkY. As you can see, Squall's attacks pack a lot of power and have better range than Cloud's. Squall can also shoot fireballs out of his hands. Cloud would have to work a lot harder if he's using the Buster Sword. Overall, I would say Cloud has a 62% chance of winning whereas Squall has a 48% chance. I have to say though, Squall is much cooler than Cloud.

62+48 = 110.....I guess you are assuming they are giving it a 110 percent.

Cloud wins

Woah make that 58% and 42% lol

Yes, Cloud would most likely win but Squall's weapon seems more powerful and deadly

Squall would eat him alive!!

Originally posted by Hooverman
squall would probably win but cloud's omnislash is cooler

Thats just a stupid reason just because something is cool it wins

Cloud, no doubt, Cloud is faster, more flexible, can jump high, has better weapons, has beat Sephiroth, can beat girls, lmao.

Squall is a sissy ^^

Cloud wins but Squall wins the coolness battle.

Squall is far from a sissy. Heck the guy became commander of SeeD while still being a teenager. Even Cloud being a young adult couldn't make it to SOLDIER. Squall arguably has skills comparable to Cloud, and he has lots of pain endurance. Cloud will probably win the majority, but Squall will prove to be a worthy adversary.

I honestly beleive that Squall would win the majority here, if for nothing else, superior weaponry, Squal's Lionheart Gunblade is an incredibly deadly weapon that fires Pulse Ammo... combine that with his Overdrive Renzokuken to Lionheart, and we have an attack that can flatten even Omega Weaopn when repeated 7 times.

I honestly beleive that Squall would win the majority here, if for nothing else, superior weaponry, Squal's Lionheart Gunblade is an incredibly deadly weapon that fires Pulse Ammo... combine that with his Overdrive Renzokuken to Lionheart, and we have an attack that can flatten even Omega Weaopn when repeated 7 times.

I honestly beleive that Squall would win the majority here, if for nothing else, superior weaponry, Squal's Lionheart Gunblade is an incredibly deadly weapon that fires Pulse Ammo... combine that with his Overdrive Renzokuken to Lionheart, and we have an attack that can flatten even Omega Weaopn when repeated 7 times.

Why'd you post that 3 times?

God Damn!.....

Now I know somethings not right with my computer... Thats NEVER happened before...

squall looks too un-friendly so i say cloud

The hell does un-friendly have to do with winning a fight? If anything I'd choose an unfriendly guy over mr. empathy in a fight any day of the week.

Lol, me and IceJaw had a similair debate yesterday....

I don't see the relation.

Squall can win. Cloud wins the majority.

Originally posted by IceJaw
I don't see the relation.





Well read it again, api!

squall 10/10...

even rinoa's shooting star beats cloud's omnislash...

or...

squall casts aura and hero and.......S-L-I-C-E!!

**i can see squall kneeling over cloud's smoking, bloodied, battered body as his lionheart gunblade glows ominously**

...........dayum!

You overhype Squall and downplay Cloud

nope...

how can you downplay the most popular ff character...

if anything, its squall that's being downplayed...

disregard the popularity of ff7, just take both characters, and squall would simply whoop cloud's arse...

Cloud's strength, speed, and reaction time is greater than that of Squall's, and Squall's not skilled enough to take on Sephiroth.

yet he was skilled enough to be commander of an elite mercenary unit in his teens...

whereas...

cloud had doubts of himself being a soldier...

and your basing that clouds reaction speed, strength and skill are greater than squall's based on what?

Has Squall shown that he has a reaction time that's fast enough to dodge bullets? Can he slice through buildings? Can he hit an opponent so hard that he sends him about a hundred feet away? Can he fight while being hundreds of feet up in the air and land soundly on two legs? Can he fight three of Sephiroth's remnants and keep up with them? I don't think so. Also if I remember correctly, Squall is a normal human being whereas Cloud is an enhanced human due to him having Jenova cells. That explains why he's capable of doing all that he does in AC. What has Squall done to put him above Cloud anyway?

your going by advent children and not ff7...

since squall doesnt have a movie i was comparing both from the ff series they starred in...

on a side note, squall's overdrive or limit break requires him to jump hundreds of feet in the air and soundly land on two legs...

for the lionheart, he can throw any opponent hundreds of feet in the air with just an upward thrust of his gunblade (strength feat)...

and he deals more damage to the opponent...

Originally posted by draxx_tOfU
finally, someone who sees past the popularity...

although casting magic wont be necessarily useless...

casting protect does not grant the caster immunity, but only resistance in physical attacks...

same with shell but only with magic, although a bit moot since squall wont be attacking with magic...

if you compare the heroes through their games only, squall owns cloud badly...

besides, if squall and crew had a movie similar to AC, im pretty sure that cloud's moves would seem pretty mundane to what squall is capable of...
Hold it right there. Squall CANNOT do what Cloud's capable of doing, period. He is nowhere near as fast, experienced, powerful, or strategic as Cloud. If you're comparing the game versions, yes, Squall might have the edge in this fight. Hell, if this was Tidus versus everyone in Final Fantasy VIII, Tidus curbstomps all of them simply because of the fact that he has a weapon that can deal tens of thousands of damage to several enemies at once. As someone stated earlier, the game version of Squall is better than the game version of Cloud, but the game version of Cloud is in total contrast to the AC version. Magic is also pretty useless in this fight since both characters have the ability to protect against or nullify spells. Excluding Cloud's abilities in Advent Children is just a way to keep Squall from getting pounded right now. I HIGHLY doubt that Squall is capable of what Cloud did in AC. Just watch the intro to Final Fantasy VIII for f**** sake. Squall is nothing but a mediocre fighter compared to Cloud, and though he is a SEED in the military, he is genetically and physically inferior to Cloud. Cloud is genetically superior to Squall for the fact that he has Jenova's cells and recieved Mako enhancements. For that reason, Cloud has a faster reaction time, is more powerful, and overall faster. Look at how Seifer easily scarred Squall in the opening sequence, and look at how Cloud was blocking and dodging bullets in the Ancient Forest, or how Cloud dodged Sephiroth's Masamune as he was about to cut off his head. Clearly, Squall is outclassed by Cloud in every way possible, leaving out all the game mechanics.

Originally posted by Cloud_VII
Hold it right there. Squall CANNOT do what Cloud's capable of doing, period. He is nowhere near as fast, experienced, powerful, or strategic as Cloud. If you're comparing the game versions, yes, Squall might have the edge in this fight. Hell, if this was Tidus versus everyone in Final Fantasy VIII, Tidus curbstomps all of them simply because of the fact that he has a weapon that can deal tens of thousands of damage to several enemies at once. As someone stated earlier, the game version of Squall is better than the game version of Cloud, but the game version of Cloud is in total contrast to the AC version. Magic is also pretty useless in this fight since both characters have the ability to protect against or nullify spells. Excluding Cloud's abilities in Advent Children is just a way to keep Squall from getting pounded right now. I HIGHLY doubt that Squall is capable of what Cloud did in AC. Just watch the intro to Final Fantasy VIII for f**** sake. Squall is nothing but a mediocre fighter compared to Cloud, and though he is a SEED in the military, he is genetically and physically inferior to Cloud. Cloud is genetically superior to Squall for the fact that he has Jenova's cells and recieved Mako enhancements. For that reason, Cloud has a faster reaction time, is more powerful, and overall faster. Look at how Seifer easily scarred Squall in the opening sequence, and look at how Cloud was blocking and dodging bullets in the Ancient Forest, or how Cloud dodged Sephiroth's Masamune as he was about to cut off his head. Clearly, Squall is outclassed by Cloud in every way possible, leaving out all the game mechanics. Hes talking game mechanics, not the movie mechanics, if it were based on the movie, Cloud would win no doubt, but put them both in a matchup with game mechanics, and Squall would win, in fact, Squall would also take down Zidane in game mechanics, Tidus on the other hand could be different, but due to the fact Tidus can't summon like Squall can, Squall is still given a certain degree of edge.

Cloud, this is one of the topics which usally goes un-made because we all know Cloud has the Edge on Squall.

Cloud 95%
Squall 3%
Draw 2%

Originally posted by Cloud_VII
Hold it right there. Squall CANNOT do what Cloud's capable of doing, period. He is nowhere near as fast, experienced, powerful, or strategic as Cloud. If you're comparing the game versions, yes, Squall might have the edge in this fight. Hell, if this was Tidus versus everyone in Final Fantasy VIII, Tidus curbstomps all of them simply because of the fact that he has a weapon that can deal tens of thousands of damage to several enemies at once. As someone stated earlier, the game version of Squall is better than the game version of Cloud, but the game version of Cloud is in total contrast to the AC version. Magic is also pretty useless in this fight since both characters have the ability to protect against or nullify spells. Excluding Cloud's abilities in Advent Children is just a way to keep Squall from getting pounded right now. I HIGHLY doubt that Squall is capable of what Cloud did in AC. Just watch the intro to Final Fantasy VIII for f**** sake. Squall is nothing but a mediocre fighter compared to Cloud, and though he is a SEED in the military, he is genetically and physically inferior to Cloud. Cloud is genetically superior to Squall for the fact that he has Jenova's cells and recieved Mako enhancements. For that reason, Cloud has a faster reaction time, is more powerful, and overall faster. Look at how Seifer easily scarred Squall in the opening sequence, and look at how Cloud was blocking and dodging bullets in the Ancient Forest, or how Cloud dodged Sephiroth's Masamune as he was about to cut off his head. Clearly, Squall is outclassed by Cloud in every way possible, leaving out all the game mechanics.

where do i start?

ok, when ff8 has a movie then lets include AC and compare the two shall we? so stop trying to compare a movie and a game with a ten year age gap...

also, your comparing cloud in AC to squall in the opening sequence of ff8 where squall is still weak? are you illogical or just plain blind biased?

on tidus, sure he he curbstomps everybody including squall AND cloud if you compare them in the games, problem is, this isnt about tidus but instead, its squall VS cloud...

and if you use game mechanics, squall>>>>>>cloud, its as simple as that...

Originally posted by Kaled
Cloud, this is one of the topics which usally goes un-made because we all know Cloud has the Edge on Squall.

Cloud 95%
Squall 3%
Draw 2%

how does he edge him if you purely compare only the game versions of both?

.............

i thought so...

Originally posted by draxx_tOfU
where do i start?

ok, when ff8 has a movie then lets include AC and compare the two shall we? so stop trying to compare a movie and a game with a ten year age gap...

also, your comparing cloud in AC to squall in the opening sequence of ff8 where squall is still weak? are you illogical or just plain blind biased?

on tidus, sure he he curbstomps everybody including squall AND cloud if you compare them in the games, problem is, this isnt about tidus but instead, its squall VS cloud...

and if you use game mechanics, squall>>>>>>cloud, its as simple as that...
Excluding AC for the fact that there isn't a movie about FFVIII isn't acceptable. Everyone knows that Squall hasn't shown to be capable of doing what Cloud does, so you can't go on and say it's possible Squall could keep up with Cloud in a battle, even though he's clearly not in his league.

Yes, Tidus being able to beat everyone in-game is the problem. Realistically, he would die to Squall. This is why Squall would hardly stand a chance against Cloud in a real match. I agree with the fact Squall is capable of beating Cloud in a turn-based match, even though Cloud can defeat him in that type of match as well. Though, in a realistic fight, Cloud would kill Squall.

which is more appropriate and much more easier to compare...

ff8 and ff7, or ff8 and AC?

.....................

yeah, i thought so too...

Originally posted by Cloud_VII
Excluding AC for the fact that there isn't a movie about FFVIII isn't acceptable. Everyone knows that Squall hasn't shown to be capable of doing what Cloud does

ooops, i m sorry, i forgot to write my post...

who is "everyone"?

and, your comparing a movie ten years advanced to a game when its easier to compare a game with another game...

besides, about tidus being able to damage tens of thousands of damage to an opponent in a single attack is nothing new to squall...

omega weapon's meggido flame and terra break attacks deal more than 30,000 damage in a single attack, and squall can beat him...

that makes three (CLOUD, tidus, and zidane) ff heroes squall can own...



but if you truly want to compare the movie to the game, then squall can just cast "hero" and lionheart cloud's ass all day...

all the strength, speed, reaction time, genova cells, blond hair blah blah blah wont help you against a literally invincible opponent...



-DT

Originally posted by draxx_tOfU
which is more appropriate and much more easier to compare...

ff8 and ff7, or ff8 and AC?

.....................

yeah, i thought so too...

ooops, i m sorry, i forgot to write my post...

who is "everyone"?

and, your comparing a movie ten years advanced to a game when its easier to compare a game with another game...

besides, about tidus being able to damage tens of thousands of damage to an opponent in a single attack is nothing new to squall...

omega weapon's meggido flame and terra break attacks deal more than 30,000 damage in a single attack, and squall can beat him...

that makes three (CLOUD, tidus, and zidane) ff heroes squall can own...



but if you truly want to compare the movie to the game, then squall can just cast "hero" and lionheart cloud's ass all day...

all the strength, speed, reaction time, genova cells, blond hair blah blah blah wont help you against a literally invincible opponent...



-DT
"Everyone" is the people who have played both Final Fantasy VII and VIII and have watched Advent Children. Cloud wins the majority whether you like it or not.

You want to use spells now? Fine. Cloud uses Manipulate on Squall and makes him do whatever he commands. He can make him stand there vulnerably, while Cloud omnislashes his ass to oblivion. That, or he could use Transform to turn Squall into a frog or a hand-held item, which would obviously make him win the fight. See why spells should be excluded out of this?

So not only does Squall lose in the game battle, but he also loses in the realistic and more practical battle. That kind of sucks.

so......tifa is really hot...

Originally posted by Cloud_VII
"Everyone" is the people who have played both Final Fantasy VII and VIII and have watched Advent Children.

You want to use spells now? Fine. Cloud uses Manipulate on Squall and makes him do whatever he commands.

ive played both games and i still say squall wins with ease...

you cant use "manipulate" when squall is in "hero" mode...

down goes your "everyone" point...

down goes your "casting spells" point...

up goes squall to lionheart cloud's ass...

again after the fight...

**squall kneels down to look grimly at the battered, smoking, bloodied and lifeless body of cloud as his lionheart gunblade glows ominously against the darkness**

Originally posted by Cloud_VII
Cloud wins the majority whether you like it or not.


nope...



the much more practical and realistic battle is between the two game versions which squall wins...

Originally posted by draxx_tOfU
ive played both games and i still say squall wins with ease...
Only you and a few others thought Squall would win. Everyone else agreed Cloud would win.

Originally posted by draxx_tOfU
you cant use "manipulate" when squall is in "hero" mode...
You can't use "Hero" when Cloud's taking control of your mind. Also, Manipulate isn't a spell in the FFVIII universe as far as I'm concerned.

http://www.ffinsider.net/ff8/magic_trans.php

Originally posted by draxx_tOfU
down goes your "everyone" point...
Everyone who doesn't argue a one-sided debate in their mind. Besides, I've said Squall could win though he most likely wouldn't.

Originally posted by draxx_tOfU
down goes your "casting spells" point...
Umm..no, and bringing up spells would be more of a problem for Squall anyway.

Originally posted by draxx_tOfU
up goes squall to lionheart cloud's ass...
Sure. Cloud will stand there and let Squall lionheart his ass. Alright, Cloud charges Squall and cuts his head off in a second before Squall casted Hero on himself, and yes, it could happen.

I'd also hate to burst your bubble, but "Hero" can only last for a while. After that, Squall's invincibility time is over. You know what that means; Squall's pretty much screwed then.

Originally posted by draxx_tOfU
again after the fight...

**squall kneels down to look grimly at the battered, smoking, bloodied and lifeless body of cloud as his lionheart gunblade glows ominously against the darkness**
After the fight...

*Cloud looks down at the bloody, sliced up, lifeless and decomposing body of Squall as the pieces of his First Tsurugi lay on the ground around him.*

Originally posted by draxx_tOfU
nope...



the much more practical and realistic battle is between the two game versions which squall wins...
Yes, Cloud does win the majority.

Nope. In-game, Cloud can command Squall to do what he wants.

Does Manipulate use mana, I havent played FF7 in ages.

My vote still favours Squall, add Cloud's movie and it favours Cloud, but without the movie it favours Squall, personally I think Squall has been the strongest main character to date in-game, excluding FF11 and 12 which I haven't played as of yet so wouldn't know about.

A lot of Clouds attacks are based off of mana, which prevents him having the same freedom Zidane, Tidus or most of the other characters have, its because the style in gameplay is vastly different.

Originally posted by Cloud_VII
Excluding AC for the fact that there isn't a movie about FFVIII isn't acceptable. Everyone knows that Squall hasn't shown to be capable of doing what Cloud does, so you can't go on and say it's possible Squall could keep up with Cloud in a battle, even though he's clearly not in his league.

Yes, Tidus being able to beat everyone in-game is the problem. Realistically, he would die to Squall. This is why Squall would hardly stand a chance against Cloud in a real match. I agree with the fact Squall is capable of beating Cloud in a turn-based match, even though Cloud can defeat him in that type of match as well. Though, in a realistic fight, Cloud would kill Squall.


No, I've got to agree with Draxx, you cannot state "Squall cannot do what Cloud did in AC" when it is all really dependent on technology. AC was made just to show what they could do with their new graphics and engines, which is preciley why it is over done with these super moves and cool stuff, of course they wouldn't show anything like that in a game made for the PS1.

For example, compare FF7 with AC, now pretend that it didn't have Cloud in it, now wouldn't you say "Cloud wouldn't stand a chance against the hero in AC", I bet you would, but that is still without support. Abscence of proof is not proof of abscence.



HOWEVER, IF it is to say that Squall has done absolutley nothing in the game (like fought someone super strong, someone fast, done something good, has good abilities), then we could say that Cloud is above him, but stating that Squall did not show any such cool things as AC is just not fair IMO.

Originally posted by kamikz
No, I've got to agree with Draxx, you cannot state "Squall cannot do what Cloud did in AC" when it is all really dependent on technology.
It actually isn't. If you've read back, you'd know Cloud is genetically and physically superior to Squall due to the fact that Cloud has Jenova's cells and recieved Mako enhancements. Squall can't do what Cloud did since he has never shown to be able to do things like what Cloud did in Advent Children, in-game or in cutscenes. Why isn't the fight between Squall and Seifer similar to the fight between Cloud and Kadaj? Those are BOTH CG sequences, and it's quite funny that someone thinks Squall has improved so much since then that he can actually rival Cloud.

Originally posted by kamikz
AC was made just to show what they could do with their new graphics and engines, which is preciley why it is over done with these super moves and cool stuff, of course they wouldn't show anything like that in a game made for the PS1.
Where the hell are you getting graphics and engines from? AC is entirely a CG movie, and FFVIII has CG sequences. They can create anything they want in those.

Originally posted by kamikz
For example, compare FF7 with AC, now pretend that it didn't have Cloud in it, now wouldn't you say "Cloud wouldn't stand a chance against the hero in AC", I bet you would,
If the person has shown abilities that are far above the other, it should be pretty obvious who'd win...so would you say the person with the inferior traits would prevail against someone who's superior to him in every way?

Originally posted by kamikz
but that is still without support. Abscence of proof is not proof of abscence.
Cloud has:

1- A faster reaction time than Squall.

2- A faster execution time than Squall.

3- More strength.

4- More speed.

5- Temporary flight.

6- Better Limit Breaks.

Originally posted by kamikz
HOWEVER, IF it is to say that Squall has done absolutley nothing in the game (like fought someone super strong, someone fast, done something good, has good abilities), then we could say that Cloud is above him, but stating that Squall did not show any such cool things as AC is just not fair IMO.
I'm not trying to say Squall can't win. The chance is there, but it's slight. Squall is neither stronger, faster, or more aware of his surroundings than Cloud since he doesn't have Jenova Cells nor has he ever recieved Mako enhancements, or anything of the sort. The only thing he's recieved is experience from training. Cloud has recieved training in the military as well, and bringing up any game mechanics as I've mentioned is pointless. It would be a curbstomp in Cloud's favor since he could take control of Squall's mind and just make Squall kill himself.

Listen, I wasn't arguing Squall > Cloud stupid, I was arguing that AC doesn't equal to Cloud being better, if Cloud is genetically enhanced, sure ok, I was just arguing that you cannot use AC as a single source and state "Squall can't do that", obviously they didn't have that technology.

And of course I know that FF has CG scenes, so? Not at NEARLY the same level, AC was MADE to show how superior their technology have become, and to show how the next FF game would look like, so yes, obviously it must be better than the old FF8 for PS1.

Originally posted by Cloud_VII
It actually isn't. If you've read back, you'd know Cloud is genetically and physically superior to Squall due to the fact that Cloud has Jenova's cells and recieved Mako enhancements. Squall can't do what Cloud did since he has never shown to be able to do things like what Cloud did in Advent Children, in-game or in cutscenes. Why isn't the fight between Squall and Seifer similar to the fight between Cloud and Kadaj? Those are BOTH CG sequences, and it's quite funny that someone thinks Squall has improved so much since then that he can actually rival Cloud.

You are a bit confused, you know? Squall also has super human stats thanks to the Guardian Force junctions. They even mention it in the game about how the Guardian Forces make them much more powerful and deadly, so yeah if Squall was given a 2007 CGI action flick he would be doing pretty much everything Cloud did and more. Why aren't they similar? Because of the difference in technology. You just cannot argue against that fact. Squall has taken ice pillars struck against his upper body and he has managed to survive; a stunt that is very comparable to what Cloud survived when Sephiroth impaled him on the Masamune.
Cloud shouldn't rival Squall, for Squall is actually a better strategist at a younger age. Brains over muscle I say, not that Squall couldn't take the fight to Cloud anyway.



No, they can't create anything they want. Do you really believe what you're saying? There are always limitations in technology; why else do you think there wasn't a single CGI fight scene in FFVII? Why do you think there is so much action and almost 0 story in Advent Children? Exactly.




Except in-game Cloud isn't above Squall, and Squall is smarter, more tactical and overall the better soldier.




1- Says who?

2- Not really. Squall's active turn is indeed faster than Cloud's, and the fact that Gunblade is not as big as the First Tsurugi or buster Sword makes it easier for Squall to execute.

3- Debatable; though I might give the slight edge to Cloud.

4- Debatable; though again I might give the edge to Cloud.

5- Bullshit. That's just inconsitency from Square's CGI team.

6- Cloud doesn't have the better limit breaks. Heck never has and never will. Lion Heart plain and simple >>>>> Cloud's limits and that's without Renzokuken




Squall doesn't need Jenova cells, nor Mako enhancements for he already has upgrades thanks to the Guardian Force junctions. Cloud also failed his military training to the point he even assumed the identity of another, go figure? Cloud mind raping Squall? Not a chance. Squall has great Will, and Cloud isn't exactly the strongest willed being in existence, besides game mechanics just render Cloud useless against Squall because the match would go like this:

1. Both wait for their turns to come up, and Squall's comes first for FF8's turn system is indeed faster than FF7's.
2. Squall uses hero and becomes invulnerable to any harm or status affecting spells.
3. Cloud tries manipulate Squall and fails; not to mention that command materia often failed during the game, and against someone like Squall it wouldn't work, but nevermind Squall has hero just to make sure.
4. Squall's turn comes again and he casts aura on himself. Free Limit Breaks YAY.
5. Cloud either attacks to no effect or attempts to defend himself.
6. Squall spams Lion Heart all over the place.

The match isn't as one sided as you make it seem, buddy.

I always laugh at the name "Renzokuken" because "kuken" means "The dick" in Swedish, and rensa (very close to Renzo) means to "empty something".

So Squall basically empties his dick on the people he Limit Breaks...?

**** that's BAD ASS!

Favorite.Char.Ever...ONCE AGAIN

LOL!


It's hard to find the right word for Rensa, but I think it is to do a clean sweap, kinda like empying anyway!

Originally posted by Superboy Prime
So Squall basically empties his dick on the people he Limit Breaks...?

**** that's BAD ASS!

Favorite.Char.Ever...ONCE AGAIN

This quote is going straight into my funny pages

Originally posted by Cloud_VII
Only you and a few others thought Squall would win. Everyone else agreed Cloud would win.


You can't use "Hero" when Cloud's taking control of your mind. Also, Manipulate isn't a spell in the FFVIII universe as far as I'm concerned.

i meant that you cant use "any" kind of spell when squall is in "hero" mode...



nah, cloud is screwed if we used spells...




it only takes one lionheart my friend...

how can cloud cut his head off before he can cast "hero" when squall is in auto-haste...




**after both heroes clash majestically in midair, cloud lands perfectly on both feet only to realize in horror that blood is staining his vision...his head throbs and he feels something he has never felt in a long time...fear...he looks up to scan for his opponent and is shocked he is nowhere to be found...he turns around and the sight almost paralyzes him...eyes flashing, gunblade poised and glowing, energy furiously swirling around him, squall charges with blinding speed and...(Lionheart sequence)...as cloud feels the cold embrace of death, he now knew peace in dying a warrior's death...with his last thought he only wished that he could have met squall earlier, for he could have asked him to teach him to fight...

Originally posted by Superboy Prime
You are a bit confused, you know? Squall also has super human stats thanks to the Guardian Force junctions. They even mention it in the game about how the Guardian Forces make them much more powerful and deadly, so yeah if Squall was given a 2007 CGI action flick he would be doing pretty much everything Cloud did and more. Why aren't they similar? Because of the difference in technology. You just cannot argue against that fact. Squall has taken ice pillars struck against his upper body and he has managed to survive; a stunt that is very comparable to what Cloud survived when Sephiroth impaled him on the Masamune. Cloud shouldn't rival Squall, for Squall is actually a better strategist at a younger age. Brains over muscle I say, not that Squall couldn't take the fight to Cloud anyway. No, they can't create anything they want. Do you really believe what you're saying? There are always limitations in technology; why else do you think there wasn't a single CGI fight scene in FFVII? Why do you think there is so much action and almost 0 story in Advent Children? Exactly. Except in-game Cloud isn't above Squall, and Squall is smarter, more tactical and overall the better soldier. 1- Says who? 2- Not really. Squall's active turn is indeed faster than Cloud's, and the fact that Gunblade is not as big as the First Tsurugi or buster Sword makes it easier for Squall to execute. 3- Debatable; though I might give the slight edge to Cloud. 4- Debatable; though again I might give the edge to Cloud. 5- Bullshit. That's just inconsitency from Square's CGI team. 6- Cloud doesn't have the better limit breaks. Heck never has and never will. Lion Heart plain and simple >>>>> Cloud's limits and that's without Renzokuken. Squall doesn't need Jenova cells, nor Mako enhancements for he already has upgrades thanks to the Guardian Force junctions. Cloud also failed his military training to the point he even assumed the identity of another, go figure? Cloud mind raping Squall? Not a chance. Squall has great Will, and Cloud isn't exactly the strongest willed being in existence, besides game mechanics just render Cloud useless against Squall because the match would go like this: 1. Both wait for their turns to come up, and Squall's comes first for FF8's turn system is indeed faster than FF7's. 2. Squall uses hero and becomes invulnerable to any harm or status affecting spells. 3. Cloud tries manipulate Squall and fails; not to mention that command materia often failed during the game, and against someone like Squall it wouldn't work, but nevermind Squall has hero just to make sure. 4. Squall's turn comes again and he casts aura on himself. Free Limit Breaks YAY. 5. Cloud either attacks to no effect or attempts to defend himself. 6. Squall spams Lion Heart all over the place. The match isn't as one sided as you make it seem, buddy. Squall's in-game stats such as his strength, magic power, and speed can be raised if a Guardian Force provides the junctions. However, this is comparing the game versions and not the realistic and practical versions. If we go by that then we can say Squall = Rinoa, Cloud = Tifa, Tidus = Auron, and so on. This is juxtaposing the characters' in-game stats. That also means Tidus can one-shot every Aeon, character, and boss that has below 99,999 Health Points with an Energy Rain . Either way, Cloud also can increase his stats in the game with certain materia.

NAME: Magic Plus
EFFECT: Increases user Magic stat
LEVELS: 5
LEVEL EFFECT: Level x 20 = % Increase

NAME: MP Plus
EFFECT: Increases users Max MP
LEVELS: 5
LEVEL EFFECT: Level x 20 = % Increase

NAME: Speed Plus
EFFECT: Increases users Dexterity stat
LEVELS: 5
LEVEL EFFECT: Level x 20 = % Increase

NAME: HP Absorb
EFFECT: User gains HP equal to 1/10 of the damage done by linked materia
LEVELS: 2
LOCATION: Wutai
NOTE: Pair with Knight of the Round to heal yourself back up to max while dealing massive damage to your enemies.

NAME: MP Turbo
EFFECT: Increases the power of the linked materia
LEVELS: 5
LEVEL EFFECT: Level * 10 = % Increase in power and MP cost

NAME: Quadra Magic
EFFECT: Linked magic materia spell or summon materia is 4 times
LEVELS: 5

Though seriously, I could care less about which game version is better. I really don't care. FF's battle systems is so unlike an action-based game or movie. You and I don't like to compare characters from FF games because of the complex and sophisticated battle systems they have. Please tell me how exactly is Squall above Cloud in any way leaving out gameplay mechanics and stats. I wasn't comparing FFVII. I was comparing AC to FFVIII, which did have fight scenes and clips. My point was that in CG quality scenes, anything could happen since it's all pre-rendered. People could make it look like anything they want. I don't care about in-game mechanics since it favors 15 year-old Rikku from X over 20 year-old Cloud and 17 year-old Squall any day of the week. How's Squall smarter? Also, just because Squall is a SeeD, doesn't make him the better soldier since the qualifications of both classes of mercenaries could be different. Plus, Squall has NEVER shown to able to do things like what Cloud did. If VIII's story ended at the end of the game, oh well. VII's story is divided into several games and movies that further the story and can be used regardless of the fact that there isn't an entire CG movie for VIII. I'm comparing the best of what both characters have shown to do in cutscenes, since it helps to say who would win in the most practical battle. Squall has never shown to be able to dodge bullets or slice through a mortocycle coming at him at 55 mph after realizing it was several yards away from him. I'm also not comparing in-game execution time since it's inconsistent enough as it is. Besides, Cloud could hasten himself with Speed Plus. Yeah, Cloud is stronger. The day Squall can knock someone a hundred yards away in one swing is the day that I say Squall's strength matches Cloud's. Speed is a no brainer; if Cloud's speed is faster than Squall's, his execution time should be as well; I'm not talking about turn-based stuff or time-taking spells. Yeah, Squall can fly temporarily. This is due to the fact that he has Jenova's cells. He's also stonger, and faster than Squall for that same reason. Remember the once instant in the movie where Sephiroth asks Cloud where'd he got his strength? That's from the Jenova cells and mako enhancements. Why do you think Barret, Cid, and Tifa can't do what Cloud can? About Limit Breaks; Cloud's Omnislash version 5 is better than any of Squall's Limit Breaks. You don't agree? I don't care . Recieving junctions from the GFs happens in gameplay. Look, Tidus can have a weapon equipped with Deathtouch or Stonetouch and he could kill any character in one hit from that weapon. Comparing two FF characters and giving them all the options they have in the game would be pretty much an endless battle. i.e., person A does this, person B counters that, person A casts this, person B reflects that, and so on. Therefore, it is boring comparing two characters this way. Cloud not mind raping Squall? You can't be taking away his abilities now. It grants him the option of taking over Squall's mind, whether Squall's will is great or not. Once that's done, it's game over Squall. Again, I don't like to compare the game versions for several already mentioned reasons. No, Cloud has the Pre-Emptive materia which increases the chance of a surprise attack on the other team. Thus, Cloud executing the first move would use manipulate on Squall and make him kill himself. Oh, and if we take the route you set out for the two, Squall's Hero spell lasts only for a few minutes. Cloud would just wait until then seeing as how Squall can't even get him; this should be obvious. Afterwards, Cloud casts Stop and Squall and uses Omnislash Version 5 to kill him. This match isn't as one-sided as you make it seem either. However, I am agreeable with calling it a draw since it's got boring.

Originally posted by draxx_tOfU
i meant that you cant use "any" kind of spell when squall is in "hero" mode...
Like it matters? For starters, Squall's Hero mode doesn't last more than a few minutes, added with the fact Cloud gets to do the first move since he has Pre-Emptive...

Originally posted by draxx_tOfU
nah, cloud is screwed if we used spells...
Nah, Squall is screwed if we used spells

Originally posted by draxx_tOfU
it only takes one lionheart my friend...
And it takes 1 Omnislash to kill Squall. Problem with that is Squall can't hit Cloud seeing as how he's faster and can travel for tens of miles per hour.

Originally posted by draxx_tOfU
how can cloud cut his head off before he can cast "hero" when squall is in auto-haste...
Does it take half a second to cast Hero? Also, Cloud can hasten himself while slowing down Squall or stopping him outright before he casts Hero. So much for that, huh?

Originally posted by draxx_tOfU
**after both heroes clash majestically in midair, cloud lands perfectly on both feet only to realize in horror that blood is staining his vision...his head throbs and he feels something he has never felt in a long time...fear...he looks up to scan for his opponent and is shocked he is nowhere to be found...he turns around and the sight almost paralyzes him...eyes flashing, gunblade poised and glowing, energy furiously swirling around him, squall charges with blinding speed and...(Lionheart sequence)...as cloud feels the cold embrace of death, he now knew peace in dying a warrior's death...with his last thought he only wished that he could have met squall earlier, for he could have asked him to teach him to fight...
You keep fantasizing that

Originally posted by Cloud_VII
Squall's in-game stats such as his strength, magic power, and speed can be raised if a Guardian Force provides the junctions. However, this is comparing the game versions and not the realistic and practical versions.



explain to me why comparing a movie to the game is much more "practical" and "realistic" than comparing the game versions of both...



and then you say stuff like this and contradict yourself...



squall can junction "initiative", and can cast stop and slow himself...



just increases the chance? initiative GAURANTEES squall makes the first move...




cloud wont have a chance to wait until squall's hero wears off as he is being slashed to a hundred pieces...even then squall can junction auto-haste to instantly cast hero again...



squall's junction >>> cloud's materia

tell you what, look at all those who have voted for cloud in any of the squall vs cloud thread, and fat chances are, you wont find a reason behind their posts to justify their answer...

you know why...

because game versions of both, squall trumps cloud any day of the week...

**looks at your name and avatar**

oh well...

Suddenly Kirby comes along, sucks them both in, instant ownage :P

Kirby rules all :P

I would accept the GF junction stat increase to be merely a gameplay mechanic IF Squall and his party didn't mention it throughout the story during the 2nd disc.

Mind Raping? Cloud is not a telepath. He just has the command materia, and that command fails more often than not, and to top it all it fails on Boss level characters, which I would rank Squall as a boss/hero. Not to mention I find it not to be in Cloud's character to attempt to mind control someone the same way he was being controlled by Sephiroth. Besides I'm not taking away the ability, for it isn't an ability of his, it's just materia.

There's no debate, Squall's limit breaks deal more damage than Cloud's.

To be honest I see Cloud taking more wins than Squall, but the SeeD can pull some surprising victories.

Originally posted by draxx_tOfU
explain to me why comparing a movie to the game is much more "practical" and "realistic" than comparing the game versions of both...
I'd love to. It's because in-game, a blitzball (which is the equivilent of an underwater soccerball) can kill anyone from the cast of FFVIII in one hit. Realistically, would it kill anyone? Nope.

Originally posted by draxx_tOfU
and then you say stuff like this and contradict yourself...
Obviously, you don't comprehend statements very well. I never said that I wouldn't use FF's gameplay mechanics if another insists on using it even after I proved how it doesn't work. You argue gameplay mechanics, then I'll do the same thing only to shoot down your arguments.

Originally posted by draxx_tOfU
squall can junction "initiative", and can cast stop and slow himself...
Cloud can use "Pre-Emptive", stop Squall, and then use KOTR.

Originally posted by draxx_tOfU
just increases the chance? initiative GAURANTEES squall makes the first move...
And what makes you think Cloud WON'T get the first move? Also, this still does nothing to help Squall being stopped in time or mind raped once his "hero mode" runs out. Hint: Squall lacks the speed and flight to hit Cloud. Plus, you act like Cloud would just stand there unarmed.

Originally posted by draxx_tOfU
cloud wont have a chance to wait until squall's hero wears off as he is being slashed to a hundred pieces...even then squall can junction auto-haste to instantly cast hero again...
hysterical I would love to see Squall demonstrate the kind of speed and power Cloud has shown in the movie, and you think Cloud doesn't have weapons like Squall? Guess what I'm going to do now? I'll leave out the First Tsurugi and incorporate the most powerful weapon Cloud gets in his game, which is the Ultima Weapon, made by Ultima himself. Now I don't see how Cloud doesn't knock the Lionheart out of Squall's hands and proceeds to level Squall as soon as his invulnerability mode wears off, and it's funny how you apparently think that Squall is doing the fighting whereas Cloud is standing there helplessly. Oh and are you sure Hero is "casted"? You sure it's not used as an item you know, that thing that is limited in supply? Secondly, auto-haste isn't any faster than haste, and given Cloud has several materia such as Speed Plus, Sneak Attack, Pre-Emptive, slow, stop, and Haste, I'd say the first move goes is in Cloud's favor...

Originally posted by draxx_tOfU
squall's junction >>> cloud's materia
Cloud's Materia >>>> Squall's junctions

Originally posted by draxx_tOfU
tell you what, look at all those who have voted for cloud in any of the squall vs cloud thread, and fat chances are, you wont find a reason behind their posts to justify their answer...
I've given pretty much all the reasons as to why Cloud crushes Squall leaving out gameplay mechanics since it states blitzball player Wakka >>>>>>>>> Squall and the entire cast of FFVIII.

Originally posted by draxx_tOfU
you know why...

because game versions of both, squall trumps cloud any day of the week...
Not with the way I proved that wrong.

Originally posted by draxx_tOfU
**looks at your name and avatar**

oh well...
At least I can admit when a character I'm a fan of loses as opposed to someone who thinks Squall is invincible

Originally posted by Superboy Prime
There's no debate, Squall's limit breaks deal more damage than Cloud's.
Damage limit in VIII is 9,999 as well as in VII. Secondly, Wakka's limit breaks deals 10 times the amount of damage Cloud and Squall's limit breaks do in-game. You see why gameplay mechanics aren't reliable?

...

Normal humans do not survive getting impaled by huge magical pillars of ice..

Or escape a time trap...

Originally posted by Cloud_VII
Damage limit in VIII is 9,999 as well as in VII. Secondly, Wakka's limit breaks deals 10 times the amount of damage Cloud and Squall's limit breaks do in-game. You see why gameplay mechanics aren't reliable?

yes, but who has more hits in their overdrive? Ding Ding Ding! Squall...



null and void...this is what you said earlier about pre-emptive...



again, just increases the CHANCE? squall junctioning initiative GAURANTEES squall attacks first...



youve proved nothing and you still INSIST on COMPARING the movie against the game...

a desperate and pathetic attempt...

Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
Or escape a time trap...

that's right...

aside from the fact that cloud has no answer to squall's "hero"...

plus, all of the major bosses from ff8 can easily take out the whole cast of ff7...

ultima weapon and omega weapon = dead ff7 cast...

Originally posted by draxx_tOfU
yes, but who has more hits in their overdrive? Ding Ding Ding! Squall...Doesn't matter since normal attacks deal as much damage (9,999 in this case) as hits in characters' overdrives do.

Originally posted by draxx_tOfU
null and void...this is what you said earlier about pre-emptive...Wtf are you smoking? I said it increases the chances of a pre-emptive attack on the enemy in a turn-based match.

Originally posted by draxx_tOfU
again, just increases the CHANCE? squall junctioning initiative GAURANTEES squall attacks first...Null argument. 1. Cloud can block his attacks with the Ultima Weapon, 2. Squall's to slow for Cloud.

Originally posted by draxx_tOfU
aside from the fact that cloud has no answer to squall's "hero"...It seems that Squall has no answer to the fact that "Hero" can only be used as an item which is limited in supply, and the fact that it's limited in time. Neither does Squall have an answer to his inability to hit Cloud in the first place and you still haven't told me what Squall would do when Cloud manipulates him or transforms him once Squall's hero mode runs out.

Originally posted by draxx_tOfU
plus, all of the major bosses from ff8 can easily take out the whole cast of ff7...Prove it.

Originally posted by draxx_tOfU
youve proved nothingIn your head maybe.

Originally posted by draxx_tOfU
and you still INSIST on COMPARING the movie against the game...How dense are you? I was never comparing what Cloud did in his movie to what Squall does in-game. I was comparing everything Cloud has shown to do in CGI sequences and cutscenses as well as what Squall has shown to do in those. The reason I don't compare in-game versions of FF characters is because of the fact that it's inconsistent. Storywise, Tidus cannot one-shot all the Aeons, bosses, and characters in every FF title with one of his limit breaks. Wakka cannot insta-kill Squall with a damn soccerball. Kimahri cannot do shit to the Omega Weapon in FFX with a lance. Yuna shooting bullets at Vegnagun is stupid, etc.

According to your logic, we can say that Wakka who only uses a sports ball to fight can disable ever known character and boss in the FFVIII realm including Ultimecia. However, any FF fan would know that is bullshit due to the fact that FF's battle system is inconsistent. What happens in cutscenes and CGI events is never wrong. That's why we should compare FF characters from what they've shown to do in those.

Originally posted by draxx_tOfU
a desperate and pathetic attempt... It's pathetic to compare FF characters by only using in-game mechanics when it's true that one of the weakest and most inferior of characters can one-shot any of the most powerful villains and bosses in the FF universe. It's desperate to not include what FF characters have done in canon movies and CG events since it's just a way from keeping the other character from getting pounded.

it sounds like your making excuses, firstly, AC is not nesisarily Canon, secondly, why do you keep saying Squall is slow? you've seen the cinematics, you've seen the in-game CG and gameplay...

you went straight for the Omnislash argument, well, here's to crushing Overdrives. Renzokuken to Lionheart with the Damage Limiter off >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Any version of the Omnislash, even with the damage limiter off for any of them.

AC is canon because it's part of the FFVII storyline, not to mention it's made by Square Enix themselves.

I use game mechanics if another person will use it even though it's been proven as bullshit. Basically, your argument is that Squall's Renzozuken deals more damage than Cloud's limit breaks since he deals more hits. ANY kind of hit or attack deal the same amount of damage as hits in overdrives do in the VII and VIII realm. The damage limiter can as well be taken out of FFVII, so null argument.

That doesn't prove that the Omnislash is a better attack than Lionheart now does it...? If your going to follow that lineof thought, you may as well think that the omnislash is better than the Zantetsuken.

And AC getting consideration only means that Cloud has more screentime (Not to mention more popular with the fanboys)... which will lead me to conclude that your basing your decision more on popularity than capability... remember, Cloud has simply got more screentime than Squall, does that mean he is BETTER than Squall? No, not at all...

Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
That doesn't prove that the Omnislash is a better attack than Lionheart now does it...? If your going to follow that lineof thought, you may as well think that the omnislash is better than the Zantetsuken.

And AC getting consideration only means that Cloud has more screentime (Not to mention more popular with the fanboys)... which will lead me to conclude that your basing your decision more on popularity than capability... remember, Cloud has simply got more screentime than Squall, does that mean he is BETTER than Squall? No, not at all...

agreed...

he(C7) doesnt get it though...