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Two similar relations but who would win

hmm.. solidus bear-hugs big boss and solid while raiden breaks out the katana and plays pinata

on a more serious note, I think if raiden defeated solidus, snake n big boss should have no problem overwhelming them

cant say at the moment.

Originally posted by CorderaMitchell
cant say at the moment.

y not?

I wnat more research and info.

Raiden is a big cry baby,but he is tough.I still give it to snake and Big Boss though

raiden is just a guy that was trained to be like snake , and couldnt do it perfectly , solidus is a strong guy , but big boss is in another level of fighting .

Big Boss and Snake can beat Raiden. Raiden can beat Solidus. Solidus is the weakest guy right here.
Big boss and Solid Snake are the dominant ones here.

what if it was solid snake and raiden vs. solidus and big boss

This is a good thread. needs more posts. Solidus' speed and abilities place him far above Solid and Big Boss. They can neither keep up with his speed or have a prayer of hitting him with any sort of weapon. Was seen when olga went to aim at him that his tentacles move fast enough to both knock the gun away and then grab her by the throat before she can effectively aim and fire. So, should be no problem for him to do the same to either Snake or Big Boss. Then zoom up, stab whoever is left and game over.

Big Boss beats Raiden
Solid beats Solidus

raiden wins by himself if it's mgs4 version. otherwise solidus/raiden loses

I love when people don't read and just use their own unfounded beleifs to judge who will and will not win.

I showed how Solidus could take down Solid or Naked with no problem. They have no chance of hitting him with any weapon. He'll chop their heads off or crush their throats or do any of the million other ways he can can obliterate them.

Olga is not Solid Snake nor is she Big Boss. Let me just say it out right: Twin Snakes Solid Snake. Nothing more needs to be said.

Pretty much! Solid is as good as they come, and Solidus for all his ability, is still neither faster, stronger or harder to hit than Gray Fox is. I think that if they are all fully equipped, Solid and Big Boss wins (seeing as Snake has stealth camoflauge and rocket launchers, etc, same with BB except Stealth camoflauge).

If they are just equipped with normal weaponry like guns and assault rifles, I can see BB losing to Solidus, and Solid (if by TS) beating him in a damn hardpressed battle. If this is BB by Portable Ops, he takes Raiden. Watch the trailer and all, he takes out someone that is roughly the speed of Gray Fox and Solidus, and dodges bullets from a machine gun for a long time on an open space. He's no Solid Snake, but I would put him around the 2 or 3 in the list of the best MGS characters...

Solidus can't beat Solid.
Even Raiden kicked his ass.

A>B>C logic. ALso, Plot-induced stupidity. Villains lose. Solidus, by all showings, is a master with both swords. His speed and strength are higher than Raiden's. He could have, quite frankly, cut down Raiden with ease. But, as is the game, the hero must prevail. That's how RPG villains who can destroy countries and planets lose to the band of heroes.

Also, Raiden was using a sword. Snake, as far as I know, is not. So, Solidus showed he could doge RPGs and machinegun fire as well as block them with his arms or swords. And who says Olga's aim/fire is any slower than Snake's...? I can't see how you can prove that unless you're saying he has better reflexes (which he may very well have ie. that stupid jumping over the missile iN Twin Snakes). But, still, if Snake has rockets, he fires them. Solidus dodges them. Snake is thus left with an opponent faster than him and no form of weapon except an empty rocket launcher. If he has a FAMAS or AK-74u, he still dies because Solidus deflected RAY's fire and it was definitely faster than a normal assault rifle.

And this is not even taking into account the snake-arms which have a couple different uses; such as range attacks by swipign or misssile or grabbing Snake/Big Boss.

Once Raiden does all Solidus did with his swords, then he's a better swordfighter than Solidus. He got in a lucky move. When Solidus lost the snake-arms, his speed was made double. All he had to do is use one burst and he could have easily skewered Raiden. He did not make that burst in the scene. He was using only feet and not the accelerator which makes no sense.



I said RPG - rocket-propeled grenade. And Snake's Stinge rmissiles have no chance of locking on Solidus. He is way too fast. Anyone who has used that weapon knows it slimitations. Solidus, given a good area to dasha bout in, will be impossible to hit with that thing unless Snake has ungodly amounts of luck.



That is the thing about Snake...by all accounts he should have died quite a lot against most of his opponents. Examples include Gre Fox. If Fox had wanted to, Snake would have been dead. That's beyond question.Fox's mobility and strength are above anything Snake could have handled. And how is he gonna jump over Solidus' head if Solidus has the snake-arms? One effortless strike and he's right back down.




No one said all equipment. So, who knows.

If BB can kill Raiden off then a 2-on-1 is their best chance against Solidus.

Originally posted by Nikkolas
A>B>C logic. ALso, Plot-induced stupidity. Villains lose. Solidus, by all showings, is a master with both swords. His speed and strength are higher than Raiden's. He could have, quite frankly, cut down Raiden with ease. But, as is the game, the hero must prevail. That's how RPG villains who can destroy countries and planets lose to the band of heroes.

Also, Raiden was using a sword. Snake, as far as I know, is not. So, Solidus showed he could doge RPGs and machinegun fire as well as block them with his arms or swords. And who says Olga's aim/fire is any slower than Snake's...? I can't see how you can prove that unless you're saying he has better reflexes (which he may very well have ie. that stupid jumping over the missile iN Twin Snakes). But, still, if Snake has rockets, he fires them. Solidus dodges them. Snake is thus left with an opponent faster than him and no form of weapon except an empty rocket launcher. If he has a FAMAS or AK-74u, he still dies because Solidus deflected RAY's fire and it was definitely faster than a normal assault rifle.

And this is not even taking into account the snake-arms which have a couple different uses; such as range attacks by swipign or misssile or grabbing Snake/Big Boss.

That is not A>B>C logic, that's simple logic. Snake is better than Raiden in every way. Even Olga was able to block machine gunfire with her sword and her reflexes or speed aren't on Snake's level and Snake dodged bullets as well and he doesn't need any super-suit to do that. As for speed and weapon, Snake was able to dodge Gry Fox's sword who I believe is faster than Solidus, Solidus is only fast when he uses his suit engine (or whatever that thing is) in combat he is not faster than Snake, I actually believe Snake is faster and more agile. As for killing Rays, they were only copies of real MG Ray and weren't as good as original, Raiden was able to take few of them with only rocket launcher.
And Dodging Solidus swords or tantacles wont be a problem for Snake. Give him a gun and a knife I'm pretty sure he'll take Solidus down.

Originally posted by Nikkolas

If Fox had wanted to, Snake would have been dead.
Fox WANTED to kill Snake, that is beyond the question. But he just couldn't.

Originally posted by Nikkolas
Once Raiden does all Solidus did with his swords, then he's a better swordfighter than Solidus. He got in a lucky move. When Solidus lost the snake-arms, his speed was made double. All he had to do is use one burst and he could have easily skewered Raiden. He did not make that burst in the scene. He was using only feet and not the accelerator which makes no sense.



I said RPG - rocket-propeled grenade. And Snake's Stinge rmissiles have no chance of locking on Solidus. He is way too fast. Anyone who has used that weapon knows it slimitations. Solidus, given a good area to dasha bout in, will be impossible to hit with that thing unless Snake has ungodly amounts of luck.



That is the thing about Snake...by all accounts he should have died quite a lot against most of his opponents. Examples include Gre Fox. If Fox had wanted to, Snake would have been dead. That's beyond question.Fox's mobility and strength are above anything Snake could have handled. And how is he gonna jump over Solidus' head if Solidus has the snake-arms? One effortless strike and he's right back down.




No one said all equipment. So, who knows.

If BB can kill Raiden off then a 2-on-1 is their best chance against Solidus.



Not really, luck is not what it was, there is no sign of luck. Raiden did an expert move and beat Solidus fair and square, it's not like they fought and then a safe fell in Solidus head, there is no sign of luck.
And how do you know Solidus didn't use the boost? He has to use it in gameplay, you can't stop he from doing it at least once, and it is clearly shown in the scene where he does it AWAY from you to upgrade his strenght, why not the way back?



Yeah, it can outspeed a Harrier but not Solidus?


And that is what I constantly hear every one say! "Fox is to fast for any human to handle, he's to strong, etc, etc, etc". If speed was alone was good enough to beat someone, then Raiden would never beat Vamp, Big Boss would never beat that guy in Portable Ops (who even looks faster than Gray Fox), and Solidus would not have been beaten by Raiden. There are loads of people that are beaten by slower people (and NOT with luck only), heck Snake defeated a similair opponent to Gray Fox in the earlier Metal Gear games, and probably the fastest man on earth.
In that game as well, he faced someone who had the strenght of 4 men, he faced Vulcan Raven who could lift a container the size of a smal house with one hand, Big Boss defeated Colonel Volgin in an unarmed battle, when Volgin can punch through a wall with ease, and has electrical attacks of 10 million volts.

I just wonder if he has an idea of who Mr. Twin Snakes Solid Snake is and what he has done.

Because it's the plot? The plot allows heroes to do things they damn well can't. Solidus did zoom away and lose the tentacles. However, in his death scene, he did not use any sort of boost. So, how is he using his full capabilties when one of his best advantages in speed is not even present?



You meen the HInd? When Snake jumps over the missile, he raises the launcher and basically has the exact luck to have Liquid hovering still without moving at all as well as the choppter right in the targetting sights. He didnt' ahve to lock on because the Hind was not moving and his ungodly amounts of luck...or skill or whatever it was allowed him to raise the launcher after jumping over a missile and point it straight at the Hind.



It doesn't matter, though. Going by what the facts are ie. list of powers and skills and abilities, Fox could have smoked Solid in an instant and Solidus could have smoked Raiden in an instant. But they didn't because the storyline would not allow for it. For example, say you never heard of Solid Snake. He's just a human. A very gifted soldier but human. How would he beat someone with speed, strength, mobility advantage? How would everything he tried on Fox not be blocked by a sword or dodged? How would he defend himself when he ran out of ammo and Fox shot him with his little blaster?



Only furthers my point. The plot demands the hero wins. But this is not a plot-induced stupidity match.T his is a match going on what they can do. And what Solidus can do is above anything Snake can do. Snake pulls out a gun. Yipee. Fires. Blocked. Runs out of ammo. Pulls out a Stinger. Tell me how he will lock on Solidus moving at full speed in every single direction and side?

It's not possible for Snake to win and yes ^, I have played Twin Snakesr and it was a good game but this is not a match where you factor in dumb luck. This i sa match where you factor in abilities and powers. Going by Solidus' showings of powers, nothing Snake has in his arsenal will be enough.

I find it hard to believe everything that Snake did in TS was simply sheer dumb luck. He is nicknamed the man that makes the impossible possible for a reason. Why neglate his feats while keeping Solidus' high end feats?

Snake was able to outrun Vulcan Raven's Turret and then fire a stinger at him. It won't be that hard for him to evade Solidus and blast him away, really. In my opinion the only time he ever got lucky was when Liquid was about to spread his brains all over the antartic and he was saved because of FOXDIE "killing" Liquid before it happened.

And you keep lowering Solid Snake claiming the plot demanded this and that, well the plot sure as hell didn't keep Snake from getting owned by Fortune.

If you had really played Twin Snakes you would've realized it wasn't dumb luck, but Snake's actual skills. Luck can only carry you so far in the battlefield. IMO the only time Snake got lucky was when Liquid was about to blast his brains all over and FOXDIE kicked in and kept that from happening.