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One said to be the greatest duelist of his time, the other who decided the fate of the galaxy...

Setting is Peragus mining facility...

tulak hord IMO. revan is but a child compared to him. tulak is an ancient among ancient sith.

him being the greatest duelist of his time most also speak highly of his force abilities i'd imagine. if his force capabilities weren't good, he'd never have that title.

Tulak Hord, Revan's reign of terror on the KMC forums finally comes to an end.

About time... lol

i'd say tulak, he's just plain better than revan.

Tulak takes this

Hmm... How about change the setting... The star forge... It should give him some type of boost of power...

same shit different pile mantis, tulak hord still wins and takes the forge from revan.

lol... Yeah, well just trying to make the match equal... But it seems Revan is an inferior opponent to Tulak Hord... Valley of the dark lords?

valley of the dark lords? still tulak hord takes it. nothing against revan, he's very strong physically, mentally, and in the force.... but tulak is just something revan's never come across

revan would win

No, he wouldn't. Tulak was the greatest Lightsaber duelist of all the ancient sith lords, so pretty much of all time.

Originally posted by Kun-ni Habeo
revan would win
Explain? Why do you think this? Because stupid Revan fan boys have sucked you in? No, fight it. Revan isn't all he's cracked up to be.

Originally posted by Bobafetty
Explain? Why do you think this? Because stupid Revan fan boys have sucked you in? No, fight it. Revan isn't all he's cracked up to be.

While I don't condone Kun's opinion in this instance (Tulak Hord is considered the best duellist of all time, unless in KOTOR III he comes back to life and Revan serves him eight times in a second, that remains) don't start yap about Revan fanboys. This forum board has had an EXCESS of Anakin/Vader fanboys who are ravenous in their defense of the boy wonder, Maul fanboys who use Shadow Hunter as a bible, and NJO Luke Skywalker fanboys who would sacrifice a date with Claudia Schiffer just to see Luke have another victory on this board.

In short, everyone has a bias; it's how valid your defense is that counts. In this case, Revan loses... but it isn't gonna be easy. IMO Ragnos, Exar, and Revan are the top three that could give Tulak fits.

Good to have you back, Janus. On the Star Forge however, if Revan controlled it, then he would win. It's as simple as that. The Star Forge offers Revan to much power to contend with, its one of the reasons he did so well, was due to its power. Hord would likely have NEVER ecountered such a thing, and would have no idea how to contend with Revan's power.

Janus great to see you too,but even if Hord is better duelist which i agree he is i still think revan had sligthly better mastery of the foorce

Nope. Kreia herself that we (Jedi ATM) "were like children" when it came to Hord.

she said compared to lightsaber using we are like children with toys she didnt mention the mastery of th eForce :P

You can't be a good duelist w/o Force Power.

Originally posted by Gryn Jabar
You can't be a good duelist w/o Force Power.

^^^^

what gryn said

Originally posted by Darth_Janus
While I don't condone Kun's opinion in this instance (Tulak Hord is considered the best duellist of all time, unless in KOTOR III he comes back to life and Revan serves him eight times in a second, that remains) don't start yap about Revan fanboys. This forum board has had an EXCESS of Anakin/Vader fanboys who are ravenous in their defense of the boy wonder, Maul fanboys who use Shadow Hunter as a bible, and NJO Luke Skywalker fanboys who would sacrifice a date with Claudia Schiffer just to see Luke have another victory on this board.

In short, everyone has a bias; it's how valid your defense is that counts. In this case, Revan loses... but it isn't gonna be easy. IMO Ragnos, Exar, and Revan are the top three that could give Tulak fits.
Really nice to have ya back Janus.

ya good to see you Janus

my MAul info is all legit!

Originally posted by Darth_Janus
While I don't condone Kun's opinion in this instance (Tulak Hord is considered the best duellist of all time, unless in KOTOR III he comes back to life and Revan serves him eight times in a second, that remains) don't start yap about Revan fanboys. This forum board has had an EXCESS of Anakin/Vader fanboys who are ravenous in their defense of the boy wonder, Maul fanboys who use Shadow Hunter as a bible, and NJO Luke Skywalker fanboys who would sacrifice a date with Claudia Schiffer just to see Luke have another victory on this board.

In short, everyone has a bias; it's how valid your defense is that counts. In this case, Revan loses... but it isn't gonna be easy. IMO Ragnos, Exar, and Revan are the top three that could give Tulak fits.

I forgot how boring it was here until you posted. Shadow hunter bible lol.


Ahem, as for the topic I think it's especially unclear at the moment. One person says he is the greatest duelist and that's all the info we have on him. Now while Force users rely on the Force in duels, they don't need an abundance of it. Most people think Lord Revan could kill Maul with just the Force and Kreia killed 3 Jedi masters at the same time with one use of the Force. My vote goes to Revan for being a superior tactician, having enormous potential, immense knowledge, tons of experience, an insanely strong will, and for beating every opponent he has faced thus far which includes many powerful ones.

emp. revan you're right in thinking those that rely on the force for dueling don't need an abundance of it; however, you forget that tulak hord was a dark lord of the sith and was burried in the valley of the dark lords.

although a great deal isn't known about him, just as there's a lot more to be known about revan, because tulak was also a dark lord of the sith his force powers must've been exceptional, to have gained such a title.

Indeed, and he had to have had a powerful force connection otherwise others would have beaten him with the force.

I'm going to go with Tulak here as well... IMO he could beat almost everybody up pretty badly otherwise you wouldn't be the greatest duelist.

Originally posted by Gryn Jabar
You can't be a good duelist w/o Force Power.

Thats bull.... look at maul and say that again. Revan is one of the greatest sith lords if not number1.

You think Maul had no force power? hahahaha.
From wiki:
1)"Darth Maul was also skilled with combining Force talents with mechanics, and was responsible for the design of his signature speeder bike and "Dark Eye" seeker droids."
2)Trained in the ways of the dark side of the Force from a young age"

Originally posted by Fishy
Indeed, and he had to have had a powerful force connection otherwise others would have beaten him with the force.

I'm going to go with Tulak here as well... IMO he could beat almost everybody up pretty badly otherwise you wouldn't be the greatest duelist.

Notice that Kreia specifically says DUELIST and never, "he was powerful" or "no one could touch him" or "he had a strong connection to the Force" or "he defeated all who fought him" or anything. Why would she simply say duelist? Someone was surely more powerful and probably he could defeat anyone in a Force-less duel but like Dooku did to Obi, someone could probably just throw him across the room if they had a powerful enough connection to the Force. I don't give this guy the benefit of the doubt like most, and while he was in the valley of the Dark lords, it doesn't necessarily mean he had a powerful connection, he was just a legendary duelist.

He was the only dark lord of the Sith burried in the valley of the dark Lords since the invention of Lightsabers... He had to be great and Emperor you are underestimating the Sith race as a whole, most of them were powerful in the force. To say Tulak beat them all without being able to stop force attacks or without being able to throw them back is a foolish mistake by Kreia.

However Revan does have a few edges here, probably a greater control of the force, studied Tulak Hords holocron and knows what Tulak Hord had and how he fought, still reading about somebody can only give you that mcuh. There has to have been someting about Tulak that made him brilliant and powerful. This would be a nice fight to see but judging from what we got I don't think Revan can beat him. Unfortunally thats very little so the best argument for Tulak is

He's legendaric

and for Revan

We don't know shit about Tulak and a lot about Revan that made him great. Nothing much to go on

And since we know more about Revan, IMO it's more logical to go with him. One person (who lies a lot) says Tulak was the greastest duelist of his time. That's it. I could list a page of reasons why Revan is so freakin powerful.

Tulak Hord would win this one..."One person (who lies a lot) says Tulak was the greatest duelist of his time."...Kreia also said that "Looking into Revan's eyes was like looking into the heart of the Force." I guess she was lying about that too.

Kreia doesn't lie about shit like that, she always told you the truth on everything she told you... Well almost everything there were things she hid from you but there was nothing she lied about

Originally posted by Darth Plagues
Tulak Hord would win this one..."One person (who lies a lot) says Tulak was the greatest duelist of his time."...Kreia also said that "Looking into Revan's eyes was like looking into the heart of the Force." I guess she was lying about that too.

Well maybe not lies a lot but definitely keeps the truth from the Exile at times. She was always trying to get him to become stronger, why not say Tulak was the greatest ever to get him to train more?

In Plagues' comparison, they're two totally different things. Kreia didn't know Tulak, no one else knows anything about him (that's curious isn't it) and where she got that information, no one knows but she trained Revan and with Revan gone anyway I can't think of a reason for her to lie about him.

So one person thinks this guy no one else knows about is the greastest DUELIST to ever live at that time. Now let's compare that, Revan fought Ajunta Pall's spirit (who had a weapon) and whipped his ass very easily in any order of planets single handedly. So Tulak is better than Ajunta, wow. Revan probably got 3 times as strong as he was then.

Now you people put so much emphasis on Kreia's every word, like Plagues said, she stated "Staring at him was like staring into the heart of the Force" and now I ask, who could beat the heart of the Force that realized (most likely) his full potential or very close? No one. If you think Tulak is the best duelist ever because Kreia says so it's only natural for you to think Revan is the heart of the Force and therefore would be unstoppable.

You've got a point there, she also said it made them look like children.

Now the point here is we have no real argument against Tulak, only for him thats it. Its hard to beat somebody that hasn't made a mistake that anybody knows off. Now really you can't give a good answer on this thread its a very wild guess at best

Originally posted by Fishy
You've got a point there, she also said it made them look like children.

Now the point here is we have no real argument against Tulak, only for him thats it. Its hard to beat somebody that hasn't made a mistake that anybody knows off. Now really you can't give a good answer on this thread its a very wild guess at best

I definitely agree. It's really a one sided argument for Tulak because the only knowledge we have of him comes from someone who likes him.

As for the children thing, it's very likely she was referring to duelists in general. Most duelists from that time could beat most duelists from Revan's time. However not all would make everyone from Revan's time look like children. And with as much ancient Sith knowledge as Lord Revan learned...

Agreed

It's kinda nice to finally agree on something, eh Fishy?

Originally posted by Emperor Revan
It's kinda nice to finally agree on something, eh Fishy?

I agree on you with a lot. I'm just not always sure on who I would vote for or not and then ussually start defending the guy the rest isn't choosing, that way I learn more about both sides and make a real choice.

Makes sense. I do that a lot too.

"So one person thinks this guy no one else knows about is the greastest DUELIST to ever live at that time. Now let's compare that, Revan fought Ajunta Pall's spirit (who had a weapon) and whipped his ass very easily in any order of planets single handedly. So Tulak is better than Ajunta, wow. Revan probably got 3 times as strong as he was then." Quote from Emperor Revan.

A spirit is not as strong as its original body...even most of you guys said that when Marka Ragnos was fighting Jaden Korr. Ajunta Pall was in the darkness so long that he lost his skill with the Force (Similar to Kyle Katarn in JO) If it were the true Ajunta Pall, Darth Revan would have lost at the early state he was in.

You have no idea if he would have lost or not

Acutally we could. Darth Revan at the time was just a regular Jedi...Ajunta Pall was a spirit of the Force, who has even said "I've been in the darkness so long." He lost his connections with the Force. If your telling me that Ajunta Pall didn't lose some of his power, well then we have to say Marka Ragnos didn't lose that much of his power either and lost to Jedi Knight Jaden Korr, because Jaden Korr was more powerful...It doesn't make sence does it? Think about it. Revan woud have lost to the original Ajunta Pall, since at the time he was only a Jedi.

Revan was al ot more powerful then most Jedi at that time, okay not as powerful as he would be some time later but still powerful. And Ajunta lost power but do you have any idea how much power he lost? I sure as hell don't, it seems to take some spirits more time to lose power then others

Originally posted by Darth Plagues
Acutally we could. Darth Revan at the time was just a regular Jedi...Ajunta Pall was a spirit of the Force, who has even said "I've been in the darkness so long." He lost his connections with the Force. If your telling me that Ajunta Pall didn't lose some of his power, well then we have to say Marka Ragnos didn't lose that much of his power either and lost to Jedi Knight Jaden Korr, because Jaden Korr was more powerful...It doesn't make sence does it? Think about it. Revan woud have lost to the original Ajunta Pall, since at the time he was only a Jedi.

Actually, Ajunta could use the Force, he tried more than one Force power on me, he had a legendary blade that was supposedly stronger than he was, and Revan VERY EASILY whooped that spirit and then got about 3 or more times stronger. Ajunta lost some of his power, but I do think he had more than 1/6 of it as a spirit since Kreia basically believes the sword was more powerful than him. Ajunta would have been no match for Lord Revan by the time he went to fight the ancient Sith Empire single handedly. My whole point was that Tulak was a better duelist than Ajunta but so was Lord Revan.

Ajunta Pall didn't use his sword against you...you had to go get it off his corpse. And all spirits are weaker than their original organic form.

also, I'm not sure who would win, but I think you are not giving Ajunta enough credit, he had been a spirit for 25 000 years. He lost probably 90% of his power

Lord Darkstar has a very good point...

Kreia thinks the blade is more powerful than him, and I don't think it's 25,000 years but I'm not for sure. Ajunta is using some double bladed anyway and his spirit couldn't become one with the Force BECAUSE of that blade so his power shouldn't decline as a spirit. Obviously they're weaker as spirits but like I said, Lord Revan didn't even come anywhere close to breaking a sweat and then he got several times more powerful. Ajunta wouldn't have been that good in his organic form or not.

Hmmm, i haven't posted here yet, I personally think that except for tulak revan is probably the greatest sith ever, I personally beleive tulak has better lightsaber skills but personally i think revan has better force knowledge and his battle pre-cog would give him a very good chance but in the end tulak would be just too good for him, barely but still.

I sure don't. Battle precog, having the Will power to resist the Dark side of an entire planet that no one else (not even Kreia) could resist, controlling the Star Forge, being perhaps the greatest tactician ever, having enormously high potential, learning everything about the Jedi from them, plundering tombs, relics, artifacts, and knowledge from a planet sized Sith storehouse of knowledge, learning dozens of ways to kill or turn Jedi/Sith, fighting for 6 years straight as the leader of one of the forces in the two different wars against powerful opponents, killing Mandalore and the strongest Echani, and considered to be the heart of the Force.

Then he loses all that power and becomes a Jedi again, he plunders Korriban, including the tombs of four very powerful dark lords, gaining their artifacts, learning from Tulak's holocron, killing two tarentateks at the same time by himself when just one could easily kill a Jedi, he killed everyone in a Sith academy that he started, he killed the best bounty hunter at that time, a Sith Lord, he killed hundreds of dark Jedi and assassin droids, killed his apprentice Darth Malak, and became even stronger than he was during his first reign (first paragraph).

Then he recovers all his memories and knowledge, increasing his power greatly from the second paragraph, before he goes to fight the ancient Sith empire single handedly.

I mighta missed something in there about him... but now we compare him to Tulak Hord:

Tulak is thought by Kreia to be the best duelist in a time of great duelists. Kreia also thinks Revan is power, and the heart of the Force.

So I'm going with Lord Revan.

I'm almost always for revan but this time even i think he's outmatched, while revan knew a lot tulak was still a very good swordsmen, we just don't know enough about him or his force abilities, I'm not set on tulak I like revan a lot and i know jak all about tulak i will probably end up siding with revan (again) but for the moment I just don't know enough about tulak to write him off as inferior all i have heard about him is that he's the greatest duelist ever, Revan is probably better I'm just not willing to say he's going to lose without knowing anything about him.

There is nothing more to know about Tulak... Thats the worthless thing about this debate, we can't debate it all. Pro Revan people can name a lot of reasons why Revan would win but none why Tulak would lose. Pro Tulak could say one reason why Tulak would win and use that to create reasons why Revan would lose.

So this is just absolutely worthless as a debate really, there is nothing to debate

Originally posted by Fishy
There is nothing more to know about Tulak... Thats the worthless thing about this debate, we can't debate it all. Pro Revan people can name a lot of reasons why Revan would win but none why Tulak would lose. Pro Tulak could say one reason why Tulak would win and use that to create reasons why Revan would lose.

So this is just absolutely worthless as a debate really, there is nothing to debate

Yep. Having Tulak or Marka in an argument against somone we really know about is basically a waste of time since there's nothing to compare and we have no idea who might win and for what reason. I say we simply let it die and go to a better one, like Exar Kun vs. Yoda for instance.