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I was just watching ep.2,3. and came to the conclusion that Dooku was trying to get rid of Palpatine. The reason why so he could take over duh! No but really in ROTS Padme was having second thoughts on why she still serves the republic and wanted to join the separists. Since Sidious was in control of the senate he pretty much was implementing sith teachings well not teachings but oppression. That is what caused separatists to leave in the first place. Sidious was onto Dooku that is why he had Anakin kill him. In AOTC while obi-1 was captured Dooku was trying to get help in destroying sidious. But he wanted to change his name from Count to Emperor. That is just an opinion. Please don't send hatefulness towards me I just came to that conclusion.

Originally posted by Darth Halo
I was just watching ep.2,3. and came to the conclusion that Dooku was trying to get rid of Palpatine. The reason why so he could take over duh! No but really in ROTS Padme was having second thoughts on why she still serves the republic and wanted to join the separists. Since Sidious was in control of the senate he pretty much was implementing sith teachings well not teachings but oppression. That is what caused separatists to leave in the first place. Sidious was onto Dooku that is why he had Anakin kill him. In AOTC while obi-1 was captured Dooku was trying to get help in destroying sidious. But he wanted to change his name from Count to Emperor. That is just an opinion. Please don't send hatefulness towards me I just came to that conclusion.

I disagree. Dooku was a faithful servant to Sidious. By looking at the movie, in my opinion, i think Dooku sacrificed his life to Anakin to complete his Masters plan. I mean when he ran up those stairs and turned to look at Palpatine, i think maybe that was a signal it was time for Dooku to sacrifice himself. I mean c'mon, Obi Wan is supposed to be better than Anakin, and Obi Wan gets thrown across the damn room. I think Dooku held back for Sidious's new apprentice.

what that about "i don't wanna die, palpy!" look that dooku gave sidious?

Originally posted by LordSorgo
I disagree. Dooku was a faithful servant to Sidious. By looking at the movie, in my opinion, i think Dooku sacrificed his life to Anakin to complete his Masters plan. I mean when he ran up those stairs and turned to look at Palpatine, i think maybe that was a signal it was time for Dooku to sacrifice himself. I mean c'mon, Obi Wan is supposed to be better than Anakin, and Obi Wan gets thrown across the damn room. I think Dooku held back for Sidious's new apprentice.

No way. Dooku wouldn't sacrifice himself for Sidious. Dooku and Sidious had a plan... they wanted to turn Anakin to the Dark Side hence Dooku's little speech to Anakin during their duel about Anakin's hate and anger and him not using them. Dooku was suprised the way Sidious turned on him and their supposed plan.

Originally posted by palpy_666
No way. Dooku wouldn't sacrifice himself for Sidious. Dooku and Sidious had a plan... they wanted to turn Anakin to the Dark Side hence Dooku's little speech to Anakin during their duel about Anakin's hate and anger and him not using them. Dooku was suprised the way Sidious turned on him and their supposed plan.

Dooku knew Anakin would be a more powerful leader and dark sider than him, and in the longrun, Dooku probably thought Anakin would kill him and Sidious and take over. Dookus death was definetly planned.

Well like most sith he probably wanted more power and he did want Anakin as an apprentice. I'm sure Dooku wanted to train Anakin and get rid of Sidious. Well I have no written proof or anything but just assumptions I guess I made an ass of myself. The separists were leaving cause maybe cause of Sidious. Remember if what Sidious told Anakin how Darth Plagueis was killed by his apprentice that just shows how sith want to be in the limelight. Like I said in a previous post was Sidious was on to Dooku. The reason Darth/Anakin was able to kill him was that he was very close to Palpy and that was why he was able to pick up the old monkeybag and tossed him Palpy didn't see it coming but the case with Dooku he couldn't hide his feelings from sidious and thus was caught.

Originally posted by LordSorgo
Dooku knew Anakin would be a more powerful leader and dark sider than him, and in the longrun, Dooku probably thought Anakin would kill him and Sidious and take over. Dookus death was definetly planned.

Have you any knowledge of Sith teachings? The idea of sacrificing oneself for any ideal is plain stupidity. The Sith are selfish and wouldn't do such a thing. If the Sith would do something like this, then a Master and Apprentice would be loyal to eachother and never try to overthrow one another. I'm sure the Sith believe that self preservation is the highest law.

And anyways, Dooku was trying to turn Anakin to the Dark Side to replace Asajj Ventress. I'm sure Palpatine told Dooku that this would be a great plan knowing in his mind that he would betray Dooku at the right moment to gain Anakin as his new apprentice.

Originally posted by Darth Halo
Well like most sith he probably wanted more power and he did want Anakin as an apprentice. I'm sure Dooku wanted to train Anakin and get rid of Sidious. Well I have no written proof or anything but just assumptions I guess I made an ass of myself. The separists were leaving cause maybe cause of Sidious. Remember if what Sidious told Anakin how Darth Plagueis was killed by his apprentice that just shows how sith want to be in the limelight. Like I said in a previous post was Sidious was on to Dooku. The reason Darth/Anakin was able to kill him was that he was very close to Palpy and that was why he was able to pick up the old monkeybag and tossed him Palpy didn't see it coming but the case with Dooku he couldn't hide his feelings from sidious and thus was caught.

I still think Dooku held back. I don't know what reason for it, but his demeanor just told me he wasn't dueling properly.

Well not to bring up EU or whatever people think Labryinth of Evil was but Dooku and Palpy discuss that they will set it up so that Obi-1 gets killed and Anakin gets turned they figured that if there is no Obi-1 then it will be easier to turn Anakin to the Darkside. Why do you think Paply was so quick to want to leave Obi-1 but Anakin said no his fate will be ours. Also in Dooku/Palpy discussion if he saw that he was in trouble that he would bail him out. they just wanted to test Anakin and he did not fare well then he was not Darkside material. So I don't think Dooku held back It was maybe that Anakin was really that much better since AOTC plus he probably wanted payback for cutting of his favorite wiener handler hand off.

Originally posted by LordSorgo
I still think Dooku held back. I don't know what reason for it, but his demeanor just told me he wasn't dueling properly.

Dooku was holding back. Capturing Palpatine was a plan to in turn capture himself. He was supposed to kill Obi-wan and be captured by Anakin. He then was going to rat out General Greivous and blame everything on him. He thought Palpatine wanted him to lead a dark side army of force users as the emperors right hand man to exterminate the jedi. But Palpatine betrayed Dooku and killed him.

hmm..well maybe the sith are all so power-hungry that it was natural for the apprentice to wanna kill off the master,to become master.

Dooku expressed to obi-wan the desire to "destroy the Sith".

Anakin in ep3 told padme: "I am more powerful than the Chancellor. I can overthrow him, and together you and I can rule the galaxy. Make things the way we want them to be. "

He echoed this again to Luke: "Together we can rule the galaxy as father and son!"

So i guess there would came a time where the apprentice would wanna kill the master when the opportunity comes,other than that they would be superbly loyal.

Sidious killed his master,fortunately for him Maul was already too indoctrinated to to the same.

Originally posted by Darth Halo
Well not to bring up EU or whatever people think Labryinth of Evil was but Dooku and Palpy discuss that they will set it up so that Obi-1 gets killed and Anakin gets turned they figured that if there is no Obi-1 then it will be easier to turn Anakin to the Darkside. Why do you think Paply was so quick to want to leave Obi-1 but Anakin said no his fate will be ours. Also in Dooku/Palpy discussion if he saw that he was in trouble that he would bail him out. they just wanted to test Anakin and he did not fare well then he was not Darkside material. So I don't think Dooku held back It was maybe that Anakin was really that much better since AOTC plus he probably wanted payback for cutting of his favorite wiener handler hand off.

He over-revenged Dooku. Both hands and then his head? Sheesh...

Yeah well I guess he did I mean now he has to stroke with his left hand now so that was an inconvienence. j/k. But seriosly if you check out atomfilms.com and look for sith apprentice the guy that created it made the clip waaaaaay before ROTS came out it was kinda of suspicious how he knew Dooku's fate. Thanks Cybervader for pointing more things out.

Episode 2: Dooku tries to get Obi-Wan to join him to kill Sidious
Episode 3: short pep talk to Anakin

Dooku, like all Sith, wanted to destroy his master and become the master himself. He wanted Anakin to help him kill Palpatine, so Anakin could become his apprentice and they could rule the galaxy.

hahaz no problem Darth Halo. Erm who is this "the guy that created it made the clip waaaaaay before ROTS came out it was kinda of suspicious how he knew Dooku's fate"? Is it EU stuff..

i don't think dooku wanted to die...i think he looked kinda surprised.....thrid party opinion here....

who ever said Dooku wanted to get killed on Purpose is stupid, thats the worst plan ever, Dooku didnt know that Sidious wanted Anakin thats why Dooku kept noticing how powerful Anakin was by saying "i sense great power in you" Dooku knew nothing of Sidiou's plan.

this is so not worth looking into.

the very nature of the sith is craving of power. there is NO SUCH THING
as loyalty!!! it was never even hinted that the sith are loyal in any way.

sidious killed his master in his sleep, as im sure plaguious KNEW
sidious would eventually try to overthrow him. palpatine tells this to anakin,
and WHY? because he wants anakin to crave his power. he WANTS anakin to plan on killing him, because that is the path to the dark side. without the want to take sidious' power, anakin would never be a sith.

from the moment anakin turned, he planned on killing sidious and taking power. thats the very reason for the law of 'two'. less chaotic. apprentice kills master, becomes master, then finds a new apprentice. this assures that any dirty deeds will always result in the preservation of the sith, since there will always be one left.

Originally posted by DenKi
who ever said Dooku wanted to get killed on Purpose is stupid, thats the worst plan ever, Dooku didnt know that Sidious wanted Anakin thats why Dooku kept noticing how powerful Anakin was by saying "i sense great power in you" Dooku knew nothing of Sidiou's plan.

Shaddapa yah face!

Exactly! He probably knew Sidious's plan and thought that he would just let himself die and not get in the way. Think about it, he would have died in the longrun anyways.

Watch Dooku's face seconds before he dies
he's shocked and doesn't want to die

Indeed, but maybe at that precise moment he realizes he does not want to die, but it is too late.

Originally posted by PVS
this assures that any dirty deeds will always result in the preservation of the sith, since there will always be one left.

unless they end up killing each other like in ROTJ

Your all stupid thinging that Dooku was going to let himself be killed, dumbest thing ive heard

Originally posted by K Von Doom
unless they end up killing each other like in ROTJ

well, what killed them was the unthinkable act of one returning from the dark side and becoming redeemed.

dookus theory was that he would kill obi wan, defeat anakin and covert him, or be captured by anakin and he would have a luxurious prison sentance, care of palpatine. Sidious on the other hand prefered the bother and had him killed

Originally posted by DenKi
Your all stupid thinging that Dooku was going to let himself be killed, dumbest thing ive heard

I stopped reading at "Your all".

Originally posted by LordSorgo
I stopped reading at "Your all".

i stopped at "thinging"

It was all planned except for dooku being killed. Dooku wanted in fact (kinda plan b) to kill palpatine and take command with anakin as his aprenctice. I think palpatine forsee this and he had the oportunity when anakin wins the round.

Originally posted by PVS
this is so not worth looking into.

the very nature of the sith is craving of power. there is NO SUCH THING
as loyalty!!! it was never even hinted that the sith are loyal in any way.

sidious killed his master in his sleep, as im sure plaguious KNEW
sidious would eventually try to overthrow him. palpatine tells this to anakin,
and WHY? because he wants anakin to crave his power. he WANTS anakin to plan on killing him, because that is the path to the dark side. without the want to take sidious' power, anakin would never be a sith.

from the moment anakin turned, he planned on killing sidious and taking power. thats the very reason for the law of 'two'. less chaotic. apprentice kills master, becomes master, then finds a new apprentice. this assures that any dirty deeds will always result in the preservation of the sith, since there will always be one left.

I believe you have hit the nail squarely on the head...
This was my understanding of this also....

Originally posted by PVS
this is so not worth looking into.

the very nature of the sith is craving of power. there is NO SUCH THING
as loyalty!!! it was never even hinted that the sith are loyal in any way.

sidious killed his master in his sleep, as im sure plaguious KNEW
sidious would eventually try to overthrow him. palpatine tells this to anakin,
and WHY? because he wants anakin to crave his power. he WANTS anakin to plan on killing him, because that is the path to the dark side. without the want to take sidious' power, anakin would never be a sith.

from the moment anakin turned, he planned on killing sidious and taking power. thats the very reason for the law of 'two'. less chaotic. apprentice kills master, becomes master, then finds a new apprentice. this assures that any dirty deeds will always result in the preservation of the sith, since there will always be one left.

I've always found this rule of two thing flawed. What if both Sith needed to engage in immediate combat together for some odd reason and both of them were destroyed? Then the Sith will have been wiped out. I don't know.. I think the entire order is very shaky and unstable. IMO, the only way this rule of two thing can work is if a Master has so much power that he is supremely invincible and sure that nothing can harm him.

So do you think Anakin would have beaten Dooku if Dooku wasn't holding back?

yes most certain he would have won

he was way more angry than dooku could be, he was more political and that is why he joined the dark side. Anakin pretty much had wanted more power UNLIMITED POWEEEEEEEEEEEEEERRRRRRRR.

everyone whos saying that Dooku let himself be killed really is stupid. Dooku lost, fair and square. There is no way that dooku would let himself be killed, it makes no sense at all. acting in that kind of fashion is not sith like. He did not know of palpatines plan to let anakin kill him. palpatine prolly told him some kind of plan that he knew would not happen. dooku believed him but palps real plan was to have Anakin and Dooku fight. If anakin was to win then he would have him kill dooku, if he was not yet powerful enough then he would disallow Dooku to kill anakin (knowing that anakin would eventually be more powerful then dooku) it just so happened that Anakin was already better then dooku, so it worked out great for palps.

you can tell this by the look on Dookus face when palps says "good anakin good....kill him, kill him now" Dooku looks at him as if to say "you were supposed to help me"..

Dooku lost, Anakin was better.

Yes that is right, the plan that Sidious told Dooku was when Anakin was getting the Best of Dooku Sidious would step in, so Dooku was just waiting but nothing happened lol

Thank you Anomaly finally someone actually agreed about Dooku getting manhandled or should I say hand handled. Bwuhahahahahaha....

The novel goes into this in much more detail....Dooku did not even want anakin he wanted Obi-Wan as he felt like a grandparent or some such lame thing(since he was Qui-Gons master)...Dooku was not as evil as a sith should have been....he was to much into the nobility crap is what kept him down and thus led to his demise...Palps even tried to give a little hint of warning to him before the battle.....was he really sure he could take anakin.......but Dooku was just in love with himself or something along those lines...lol...anyways grab the audionovel or something and check it out

Hey JD they got audio novels for the LOE?

I dont know but Im sure google holds your answer...lol....

how about you start pouring some JD whiskey in this direction

It is common and accepted "practice" for Sith to want to kill each other and take over power. It is a result of their inward, selfish philosophy. Sidious knows that whatever apprentice he has, the apprentice always wants to kill his mater and assume power. Basically, it is the theory of natural selection; "survival of the fittest". If Sidious's apprentice is more powerful than him, then he will accept his fate... Of course, this never happened (until Ep VI), as Sidious was superior to any Sith apprentice/Jedi he encountered.