Did Mace have Sidious OR was Sidious playing?

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LordSorgo
Alot of people think Sidious was playing with Mace, yet alot think Mace had Sidious by the ass.

I think Mace was ready to kill.

SpyCspider
hahaha

Read your own sig.

Locke714
of course sidious was playing. he just had to make Anakin into Vader before he could kill mace. I mean, if yoda, with more than 900 years of practice could not beat sidious, then how could mace? Happy Dance evil face laughing out loud laughing out loud

DeVi| D0do
I'm pretty sure we have a thread (or twelve) on this already...

Sidious was toying with Mace.

((The_Anomaly))
there are about 1000 threads on this already...

theres a good debate in the "best Jedi swordsman" thread right now...

ApolloX
Sidious was playing with Mace. He knew Anakin would find him there looking like Mace was trying to assassanate Palps. Palps knew it would be enough to turn Ani to the darkside.

Dresta
MAce had sidious he ws a dead man before Anakin came to save his ass

EHmasterJedi
In the original scene before they edited it Anakin was watching the hole thing, you can even see Anakin walking in the background in a couple scenes wile the two duel in the new web doc, hence the reason why Palpi has anakins saber i think in alot of the duel, so yeah i believe it to be fact that the original thought was to have palpi fake the loss to windu, its just when they recut it, it didnt have quite the same effect (unfortunatly). In my opinion they should of reshot the hole scene over again, with the right lightsaber cause it just doesnt make sense to have Anakins saber in the movie anymore speacialy when they have that big close up of him popping it out of his sleeve.

Neo_Version 7
I agree 100%, Dresta.

JKozzy
Originally posted by DeVi| D0do
I'm pretty sure we have a thread (or twelve) on this already...

Sidious was toying with Mace.

Ast Rofan
*walks in, gets struck by massive feeling of deja vu, runs out*

chilled monkey
No Sidious wasn't faking. Mace kicked his arse and ONLY Anakin's help saved him.

People keep forgetting that the movie is about ANAKIN. If Sidious was faking and didn't need Anakin at all, then Anakin's role is diminished. He goes from being instrumental in the Jedi's downfall to just being a bystander. That is what it comes down to. You have to show that if it hadn't been for Anakin, the Jedi would have never fallen.

obi-wan geynobi
sidious was defanately playing because he grilled himself and also you just cant beat sidious so easily like windu almost did

Vanquish
If you go by the movie, then Windu beat palps and Anakin saved him. There is no evidence what so ever, not even a look or a hesitation that would lead someone to believe that he was baiting Anakin. Only after he got dumped on his ass and was about to die did he start baiting anakin with that No No No bullshit.

But I guess if you go by all the EU stuff and books, then maybe there is proof that he might have been baiting.

DeVi| D0do
I hate EU...

But I think the simple fact that Palpatine let Anakin tell Mace suggests he knew he would be able to take him on. And also the fact that Palpatine needed to get into that situation (being beaten by Mace) in order to turn Anakin.

You could also argue that Palpatine's funny faces suggest he was just pissing around...

DenKi
you have to be a Retard to think that Sidious was not faking it.

Swanky-Tuna
I don't think Sidious was faking it but I think he planned the dive when he sensed Anakin was coming.

LordSorgo
Originally posted by Vanquish
If you go by the movie, then Windu beat palps and Anakin saved him. There is no evidence what so ever, not even a look or a hesitation that would lead someone to believe that he was baiting Anakin. Only after he got dumped on his ass and was about to die did he start baiting anakin with that No No No bullshit.

But I guess if you go by all the EU stuff and books, then maybe there is proof that he might have been baiting.

EU is such turd.

Ogami Itto
Originally posted by DenKi
you have to be a Retard to think that Sidious was not faking it.

why?? because u say so??

i can only judge things by the way i SEE them ! and i saw mace windu defeat sidious! there was no indication given that he was faking on screen!! and don't gimme any of that EU rubbish!!

The Last Son
So you think it was coincidence that Anakin walked in right when Palpatine was at the mercy of Mace? Thats dumb. Maybe everything Sidious did was coincidence. Maybe he became Emperor by accident.

LordSorgo
Originally posted by Ogami Itto
why?? because u say so??

i can only judge things by the way i SEE them ! and i saw mace windu defeat sidious! there was no indication given that he was faking on screen!! and don't gimme any of that EU rubbish!!

You couldn't have said it any more correct.

Revan Souer
To be honest I have to believe Sidious was faking, come on he's meant to be the The Sith Master.

LordSorgo
For some reason, that doesn't convince me.

sumbum
You know, I feel he was faking as well, but they are right. There is no proof to this theory what so ever. The only thing that supports the theory he was faking is that yoda couldnt beat him, and Yoda is better than Mace. But thats not factoring in location. In this case, Yoda had a very shitty location to fight at. They were bouncing around on galactic chamber platforms, like two damn bullfrogs. So evne that argument has a flaw.

Revan Souer
The way he acts afterwards at any time he could of used his foce powers but didn't. Come on if he could kick yoda's ass he could take Mace

Revan Souer
Originally posted by sumbum
You know, I feel he was faking as well, but they are right. There is no proof to this theory what so ever. The only thing that supports the theory he was faking is that yoda couldnt beat him, and Yoda is better than Mace. But thats not factoring in location. In this case, Yoda had a very shitty location to fight at. They were bouncing around on galactic chamber platforms, like two damn bullfrogs. So evne that argument has a flaw.
If anything the location favoured Yoda

ccoo
I think Mace gave him an admirable fight. I think Sidious is much more powerful than him, but not by leaps and bounds. In the end, this was a plan by Sidious to have Anakin walk in at the right time. If you were to walk in when Anakin did, you would think that Mace was killing a old defenseless man. You would think, why didn't he just arrest him, he must be trying to assassinate him. In the end, Sidious new Anakin would not let him die because of Padme, so that was the best way to turn him to the dark side quicker.

PloKoon
Mace is one of the most skilled jedi in terms of use of lightsaber and one of the fiercest jedis overall so i would say he completely owned him

Revan Souer
Originally posted by ccoo
I think Mace gave him an admirable fight. I think Sidious is much more powerful than him, but not by leaps and bounds. In the end, this was a plan by Sidious to have Anakin walk in at the right time. If you were to walk in when Anakin did, you would think that Mace was killing a old defenseless man. You would think, why didn't he just arrest him, he must be trying to assassinate him. In the end, Sidious new Anakin would not let him die because of Padme, so that was the best way to turn him to the dark side quicker.
Totally agree Happy Dance

LordSorgo
Originally posted by sumbum
You know, I feel he was faking as well, but they are right. There is no proof to this theory what so ever. The only thing that supports the theory he was faking is that yoda couldnt beat him, and Yoda is better than Mace. But thats not factoring in location. In this case, Yoda had a very shitty location to fight at. They were bouncing around on galactic chamber platforms, like two damn bullfrogs. So evne that argument has a flaw.


Yoda is not better than Mace. They are equal in power. This is stated on the Starwars.com Databank.

Revan Souer
Ok if they're equal then doesn't that prove that Sid was faking? He beat Yoda so that means he'd of beaten Mace

The Last Son
Not equal. Yoda survived. Mace is a splat on the sidewalk.

The Last Son
His force power didn't forsee Anakin cutting his arm off did it?

LordSorgo
Originally posted by Revan Souer
Ok if they're equal then doesn't that prove that Sid was faking? He beat Yoda so that means he'd of beaten Mace

Incorrect. Mace and Yoda had the same power but their styles were different. Maces style may have faired better against Sidious than Yodas did.

JKozzy
Originally posted by Ogami Itto
why?? because u say so??

i can only judge things by the way i SEE them ! and i saw mace windu defeat sidious! there was no indication given that he was faking on screen!! and don't gimme any of that EU rubbish!! Um, I'm pretty sure I saw Sidious OWN Mace. EU aside, it's still quite obvious that Palpatine is baiting Anakin. I mean, c'mon. "I can't hold him any longer... too weak... Anakin, help me, HELP ME!" Can't sense any notion of seriousness in those lines, at all. He glances over at Anakin to see the conversion, because he knows it's happening, and that was how he planned it. He could stay hidden from the entire Jedi order for as long as he did, I'm pretty sure he can devise a simple scheme like that that would take no more than five minutes.

JKozzy
Originally posted by PloKoon
Mace is one of the most skilled jedi in terms of use of lightsaber and one of the fiercest jedis overall so i would say he completely owned him Yeah, overlooking the fact that he died. Sidious owned Mace; it was only a matter of time until Mace would be used as an accessory in Anakin's turn to the dark side.

EHmasterJedi
Read my first post i still say that pretty much explains it

Darth_Nefarus
I think if you've read the books you'd be more willing to believe Sidious knew what would happen and went with it, or through the fight a bit, but on screen it looks like Sidious owns him.
Either way, Sidious didn't get tossed out the window

Ogami Itto
Originally posted by JKozzy
Um, I'm pretty sure I saw Sidious OWN Mace. EU aside, it's still quite obvious that Palpatine is baiting Anakin. I mean, c'mon. "I can't hold him any longer... too weak... Anakin, help me, HELP ME!" Can't sense any notion of seriousness in those lines, at all. He glances over at Anakin to see the conversion, because he knows it's happening, and that was how he planned it. He could stay hidden from the entire Jedi order for as long as he did, I'm pretty sure he can devise a simple scheme like that that would take no more than five minutes.

sidious owned mace?? ???????

wallbashwallbashwallbash

chilled monkey
Yes, I'm sure Sidious planned to get his face melted. That's exactly what he wanted.

Mace beat him and Anakin's aid was all that saved him. As I said before, if Sidious could have won on his own merits and didn't need Anakin, then the focus is no longer on Anakin which it needs to be as the movie is ABOUT him.

Oh and Sidious didn't beat Yoda either.

CrazyOcelot
I think Mace was actually the one who planned it after all big grin
He was actually a Sith/Jedi hybrid; selfless enough to formulate such a plan to turn Anakin over to the darkside.

Stealth Agent
Palpatine got his face melted to add to the pitty factor when anakin came in

btw sure palps can beat mace on his own but the reason he's getting anakin b/c he knows anakin is stronger and having anakin as a pupil to do his bidding makes him stronger

spencerspider
ok one yoda is stronger than mace samuel l jackson says on the episode 2 dbd extras "i finally get to fight cuz i am the 2nd baddest man in the universe" see yoda did lose did u not hear him "i have failed".anyway sidious planned the whole thing out just to get anakin to turn to the dark side.could u not tell sidious did much better vs yoda then when he did vs mace

chilled monkey
Yoda saying "I have failed" does not mean he lost. In a way, he won as he fared better. For someone to lose a fight they must either be soundly beaten, or realise they can't win and retreat. The reason he left is because clone troopers had arrived and he realised he had missed his opportunity, not because he couldn't win.

I know everyone's entitled to their opinion, but NO-ONE can dispute what I pointed out. The focus has to be on Anakin, look:

1) Mace defeated Sidious and was about to kill him, so the Jedi would have survived and the Empire would have never gotten started. The ONLY reason things happened the way they did is because of Anakin. He is CRUCIAL to what happened.

or

2) Sidious didn't need Anakin at all. If Anakin hadn't been there, he'd have won and things would have proceeded more or less exactly the same. Anakin goes from being crucial to what happened to just being someone who happened to be there and did not make any real difference.

DeVi| D0do
Yoda left because the clones were coming. He knew he couldn't win because the clones were coming. He retreated. He lost.

Ogami Itto
if samual is the "2nd baddest" then who is first?? if it's Yoda, then mace is more powerful than Sidious!and if Sidious is the "baddest" then mace is more powerful than Yoda!!

Apex512
Sidious is stronger than Mace but he underestimated him during there fight. Mace took advantage and had a chance to end Sids. Sidious may have planned to turn Anakin in a fight against Mace but he didn't expect to be on his back disarmed. Sidious used his situation to his advantage. sidious is quick on his feet when it comes to being devious and he shows it during that scene, and when he shot lighting at Mace, Mace reflected it and toasted him, and he wasn't expecting that, Mace was killing Sidious. The only reason Sidious jumped up after Anakin cut off Mace's arm is because he saw his chance and took it, kind of like an adrenaline rush. yes

chilled monkey
Originally posted by Apex512
Sidious is stronger than Mace but he underestimated him during there fight. Mace took advantage and had a chance to end Sids. Sidious may have planned to turn Anakin in a fight against Mace but he didn't expect to be on his back disarmed. Sidious used his situation to his advantage. sidious is quick on his feet when it comes to being devious and he shows it during that scene, and when he shot lighting at Mace, Mace reflected it and toasted him, and he wasn't expecting that, Mace was killing Sidious. The only reason Sidious jumped up after Anakin cut off Mace's arm is because he saw his chance and took it, kind of like an adrenaline rush. yes

You hit the nail right on the head there.

Ogami Itto
agreedyes

Apex512
Thank you cool

DenKi
This is doing my head in so Much, If u use your Brain and Compaire Yoda and Maces Fight you can see That Yoda againts Sidious was the best, Sidious was trying.

And in the Mace fight Sidious had his Sabre pointing at Maces Chest for like 5 God dam Seconds, didnt any of you stupid people see that? Sidious could of stuck him down then at any Time.

Revan Souer
Originally posted by DenKi
This is doing my head in so Much, If u use your Brain and Compaire Yoda and Maces Fight you can see That Yoda againts Sidious was the best, Sidious was trying.

And in the Mace fight Sidious had his Sabre pointing at Maces Chest for like 5 God dam Seconds, didnt any of you stupid people see that? Sidious could of stuck him down then at any Time.
Thankyou finally some one who watched the flim, the only way Sid could turn Ana was to make him make a choice there was noway of coming back from. In the end that was the whole point of him pretending to be weak.

chilled monkey
Apex512: You're welcome.

Sidious may have had a plan of some kind, but it certainly didn't go exactly as he wanted. If Anakin hadn't been there, he could have died.

Mace left an opening on purpose to try and sucker him into taking it.

Kenpokarate 2
I am not going to mention that I have been saying this ever since the movie came out. I am simply going to quote GL.

""The Jedi Master is WINNING when Anakin arrives, but Palpatine, as the scene has been rethought, now seizes the occasion to exaggerate his weakness. You have to be either MACE or Yoda to compete with the Emperor."

--George Lucas, The Making Of Revenge Of The Sith; page 204 "

From the mouth of the ONE person that matters. Sidious was losing to Mace when Anakin arrived then he started to fake it. He wasnt faking it the whole time.

Nuff Said...

Kenpokarate 2
Sidious did not underestimate Mace Windu. Mace Windu is the better swordsman. If Anakin didnt intervene, Sidious would have lost.

Revan Souer
Originally posted by Kenpokarate 2
Sidious did not underestimate Mace Windu. Mace Windu is the better swordsman. If Anakin didnt intervene, Sidious would have lost.
So are you saying that it was just LUCK that Ana walked in when he did? evil face

DenKi
Stupid fools,

Sidious Knew Anakin was coming that is why he didnt go all out like he did with Yoda, Just Picture Mace Windu fighting Sidious like Yoda did in the Senate, Mace wouldnt like 10 secs

Revan Souer
So doesn't that prove that he was just toying with mace, he could of used the light/bolts at anytime

DenKi
yeah easily, Sidious wasnt even moving fast at all, all you have to do is jsut compaire both Fighting styles of Sidous when he fighted Yoda and Sidous, its clear

Revan Souer
Originally posted by DenKi
yeah easily, Sidious wasnt even moving fast at all, all you have to do is jsut compaire both Fighting styles of Sidous when he fighted Yoda and Sidous, its clear
Thanks DenKi can't believe that people think Mace would of won, come on Sid is the most powerful Sith at that time and Mace was just one of many Masters

Apex512
Mace wasn't just one of many masters, he was second to Yoda. Kenpokarate 2 even has the quote by Lucas. The movie showed Mace beat Sidious fair and square.

Revan Souer
Don't care what the quote says Lucas has said that the ep1 isn't a load of crap but it is

Revan Souer
Quite simply Sid is faking to get Ana to turn

Apex512
Don't care what Lucas said, confused are you kidding me. Sidious lost, he's not all powerful like you think, he can be defeated.

Revan Souer
Yeah by DARTH and only Darth hence the balance destiny. And I dont mean I dont care what he says but sometimes hes misquoted or just wrong ie jar jar

LordSorgo
Originally posted by Apex512
Mace wasn't just one of many masters, he was second to Yoda. Kenpokarate 2 even has the quote by Lucas. The movie showed Mace beat Sidious fair and square.

Ok, Mace And Yoda are equal in power. Mace is actually a better saber duelist than Yoda.

Go to the Star Wars Databank it will tell you they are equal in power.

Apex512
If that's true okay, I like Mace but I think Yoda is stronger, where in the databank does it say there equal? I'm not questioning your info I just want to know.

Kenpokarate 2
Originally posted by Revan Souer
Yeah by DARTH and only Darth hence the balance destiny. And I dont mean I dont care what he says but sometimes hes misquoted or just wrong ie jar jar


GL is wrong about his own self made story? Your so full of shit. It amazes me how you people just want to believe anything you want to believe and not give a shit about what is factual.

GL said Mace won the battle. GL said Sidious was playing possum after that. You people need to realize that both sides are right.

DenKi, your a ****ing moron. Go and watch the ****ing movie again. Sidious didnt get a chance to move around because him and Yoda got stuck on the ****ing platform and yes, when Sidious did get a chance to move around, he moved just as fast as he did when he was fighting Mace Windu.

People that need to be sodomized and shot --- DenKi, Revan Souer.

and ...

Anakin showed up because he KNEW that the ****ing Masters were going after SIDIOUS YOU STUPID ****ING 7 YEAR OLD MORON.

vader476
Your Mom Is A Whore

Kenpokarate 2
Originally posted by vader476
Your Mom Is A Whore


Your mom is a 2 dollar street **** who ****s he own damn pimp for crack rocks. Happy Dance

vader476
dude i wasnt talking about you
lol
i put it up randomly in a thread

Revan Souer
Originally posted by Kenpokarate 2
GL is wrong about his own self made story? Your so full of shit. It amazes me how you people just want to believe anything you want to believe and not give a shit about what is factual.

GL said Mace won the battle. GL said Sidious was playing possum after that. You people need to realize that both sides are right.

DenKi, your a ****ing moron. Go and watch the ****ing movie again. Sidious didnt get a chance to move around because him and Yoda got stuck on the ****ing platform and yes, when Sidious did get a chance to move around, he moved just as fast as he did when he was fighting Mace Windu.

People that need to be sodomized and shot --- DenKi, Revan Souer.

and ...

Anakin showed up because he KNEW that the ****ing Masters were going after SIDIOUS YOU STUPID ****ING 7 YEAR OLD MORON.
Why Sodomize, now someones a closet homo.
And how did Ana know, because of his discussions with Sid. Face it you have your way of looking at thing I have mine. But you probably like your boyfriend wearing a glow in the dark comdom and calling his penis a lightsaber sick

Bishop X
Originally posted by Kenpokarate 2
GL is wrong about his own self made story? Your so full of shit. It amazes me how you people just want to believe anything you want to believe and not give a shit about what is factual.

GL said Mace won the battle. GL said Sidious was playing possum after that. You people need to realize that both sides are right.

DenKi, your a ****ing moron. Go and watch the ****ing movie again. Sidious didnt get a chance to move around because him and Yoda got stuck on the ****ing platform and yes, when Sidious did get a chance to move around, he moved just as fast as he did when he was fighting Mace Windu.

People that need to be sodomized and shot --- DenKi, Revan Souer.

and ...

Anakin showed up because he KNEW that the ****ing Masters were going after SIDIOUS YOU STUPID ****ING 7 YEAR OLD MORON.

Keep that up and you'll get banned.

The Last Son
Kenpo, calling people names and insulting them just makes you look stupid and ignorant and it hurts your point. Which happens to be wrong. Palpatine was a lot stronger than you think. He took on 4 jedi and killed them all. He didn't need Anakin's help, he wanted it to prove his point that the Jedi were trying to kill him. He could read Anakin's thoughts and dreams so you know he could sense him comming. Plus if mace didn't have a lightsaber, what would he do? Palpatine has force lightning and only Yoda can counter that. Palps is superior.

Kenpokarate 2
Originally posted by Revan Souer
Why Sodomize, now someones a closet homo.
And how did Ana know, because of his discussions with Sid. Face it you have your way of looking at thing I have mine. But you probably like your boyfriend wearing a glow in the dark comdom and calling his penis a lightsaber sick


What? Oh sorry ... I couldnt hear you ... I was to busy ****ing your mom in her ass! laughing

Kenpokarate 2
Originally posted by The Last Son
Kenpo, calling people names and insulting them just makes you look stupid and ignorant and it hurts your point. Which happens to be wrong. Palpatine was a lot stronger than you think. He took on 4 jedi and killed them all. He didn't need Anakin's help, he wanted it to prove his point that the Jedi were trying to kill him. He could read Anakin's thoughts and dreams so you know he could sense him comming. Plus if mace didn't have a lightsaber, what would he do? Palpatine has force lightning and only Yoda can counter that. Palps is superior.

My point? Oh ... You mean GL point, because I did quote GL. Go ahead and say that GL is wrong. So everyone how much of an ass you are.

I realize how strong Palps. was.

So he could sense Anakin coming while Mace Windu was beating him into the ground? Please ... I have no doubt what so ever that Sidious was playing the situation but I also realize that he was playing the situation because Mace Windu had him. You cant argue with that. Mace won the battle fair and square.

Anakin killing Mace Windu was an act of loyality to Sidious. Go and watch the movie again and listen to the dialogue and you will see.

DeVi| D0do
Anakin did not kill Mace.

Cipher
Sidious was using Mace to force Anakin into making a choice........

DeVi| D0do
Yup.

Revan Souer
Originally posted by Kenpokarate 2
What? Oh sorry ... I couldnt hear you ... I was to busy ****ing your mom in her ass! laughing
My mom is dead so well done on that

LordSorgo
Originally posted by Kenpokarate 2
What? Oh sorry ... I couldnt hear you ... I was to busy ****ing your mom in her ass! laughing

Me ----> rifle schnauz <---- You

Revan Souer
Originally posted by LordSorgo
Me ----> rifle schnauz <---- You
Same answer, she's dead so thats just sick on your part and doesn't bother me. But I think you could do with a little help as she been dead for two years and would smell very good. sick

Kenpokarate 2
Originally posted by Revan Souer
My mom is dead so well done on that

I love dead corpses, especially your moms. Didnt you know I was a necrophiliac? Oh wait ... I shouldnt use such 'big' words around a bunch of crack smoking 12 year olds.

****ing sick of people

LordSorgo
Originally posted by Kenpokarate 2
I love dead corpses, especially your moms. Didnt you know I was a necrophiliac? Oh wait ... I shouldnt use such 'big' words around a bunch of crack smoking 12 year olds.

****ing sick of people

laughing

Captain REX
Kenpo, do you need to receive a warning? I got plenty, you look like you need one. Hmm?

Stop yer feckin bickering, you damned kids! I say it was the second choice, you must all bow!

Ken Kenobi
Thread has gone too far off topic and has turned into a flame war and necrophelia.

Closing.

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