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Ok, Kun easily beat Kreia, and Yoda easily beat the Exile, so who would win between these two?

oooooo, quite an even fihgt, but in the end i think it would be a stale mate because yoda has so much more infinite wisdom and connection to the force ( more training and experience in it ) but exar kun is plain hard

We shouldn't go by the votes we should go by the facts and I'm personally leaning towards kun who killed 1000 jedi in a single fight( I think please correct me if I'm wrong I don't eally know.) Kun was a better swordsmen as for more powerful with the force this also goes to kun, he was able to become one with the force then feed of of a race of warriors.

yes but yoda is the only (known off) jedi (from wat iv read, mite be wrong) to be able to repel force lightning and that is a pretty im pressive feat and plus yoda is just a badman, and kun didnt killa 1000 jedi he just stopped them from coming to his planet and repeled them

thank you for correcting me on that, as for the force lightning thing I seriously doubt that people had been absorbing force energy for thousands of years before him, (i.e nhilus and the exile.) when you get right down to it force lightning is just force energy, you might be right but chances are there was probably someone before him to do ir, probably being the operative words in that sentance.

people before Yoda could repel force lightning, Nomi Sunrider could do it, Mace did it against Palpy, heck in the special edition of RotJ book, Luke did it.

And here I say Exar wins. If you want reasons go to the Exar vs Kreia thread

Yoda

We don't know very much about either character's background, but I like Yoda because he fights with so much determination, in all his fights he looks like he's giving it his all.

Yoda for me too.

well i guess exar would win but
1, i'd hate to see the little green dude get beaten
2, it would be pretty intense and even fight even if exar would win, i atleat think exar would get injuered by yoda

Think about it though, Yoda wasn't in his prime during the movies and gave everybody he fought hell, jumping off of one leg. Yoda in his prime I think could take Kun. But 900 year old yoda I don't think could pull it off, but I hate to imagine Yoda losing a fight and getting killed.

Ok, you said we didn't know any background on them, actually we do know a fair bit and here is some info on Exar (this is taken from the Exar vs Revan thread and the Exar vs Kreia thread which is why some points may refer to them), anyway, here it is:

Exar was an exceptional duelling master.
He also was able to freeze the entire senate with one spell and then resuce his apprentice and kill an extremely powerful jedi master and nobody could do a thing about it. This jedi master was also very similar to Yoda and been training for hundreds of years, also remember that the jedi master was training during the height or war in the republic so he knew battle better than Yoda did.
The jedi order also sent thousands of jedi to kill Exar. He was able to repel all of them long enough to preserve his spirit for thousands of years.
And Exar did study alot, Vodo-Baas says that Exar is the most powerful student he has ever trained and the most powerful force user of that time, and Vodo was similar to Yoda, he trained lots of jedi over a long period of time, and if Exar was the best, that means something.
Exar also studied alot, he was fasinated by the sith teachings in Vodo's holocron. Exar also learned under the ancient sith, like Freedon Nadd and Marka Ragnos, he would still be very smart. It is also worth noting that the ancient sith said that Exar would be the one to bring about the golden age of the sith and said that he was the Dark Lord of the Sith, over Ulic-Qel Droma.
Exar Kun was also able to destroy the entire massassani race, quite a feat. He drained their life force and used it to prolong his life.

His apprentice, Ulic, was a powerful jedi and dueller in his own right, but Exar was his unquestioned master and the ancient sith said that Kun would be the dark lord, not Ulic, this means that Kun is stronger than Ulic was.
He was also able to hide as a sith in the middle of the jedi stronghold (Ossus) and recruit jedi to become sith, without the jedi even knowing what he was doing, that's got to take some pretty impreesive power. He decived the best jedi in the order, took sith stuff and recruited new allies from the midst of the jedi ranks, lied to the jedi masters, and they couldn't even tell it was going on! Also, this planet (and its sun) were later blown up by Kun so Yoda would have no knowledge of those things that Exar knew.
Also, he invented his own lightsaber, Exar was the person who invented the double blade lightsaber. He would then designed his own, unique, style of combat, something Yoda would never have seen, giving Kun another advantage.
He is also an amazing dueller, after he decided to try against Vodo (a lightsaber master), Vodo died in around 10 seconds, before that Kun was just toying with him. Toying with him! In the middle of the senate chamber on the same planet as the jedi temple, he could still toy with one of the best duellers in the jedi order and win hands down.
Kun also learned loads of stuff from Ossus, which was later destroyed by him so Yoda couldn't have learned anything from it, he also used sith holocrons and had the private notes of Naga Sadow, another sith who could blow up a sun. Naga was also a dark lord of the sith from 1000 years before Exar and was Marka Ragnos apprentice and had an amazing grasp of the dark side, Exar learned it all.
Kun was able to walk into the heart of the republic senate, freeze them all, kill their leader and a jedi master, and walk out, nobody could do a thing. This is in the heart of the jedi order! He was also able to kill a beast which is probably very similar to a terentek, or better, with very few problems. Exar was also able to walk into another jedi stronghold (Ossus), kill more jedi, steal the artifacts, and walk out again, unharmed. He was also able to destroy Freedon Nadd with no problems.

About Exar being defeated by 12 people, only 2 which had lightsabers, might I add that one of those people was Luke Skywalker, another was Kun's old master, a 4000 year old jedi master. Also, I think its impressive that it took 12 jedi combined, 2 of which were masters, to defeat Kun's ionized air particles.

think about how he died, he was faced against 10 000 jedi, and the republic fleet. Under those circumstances, anyone would have died, including Revan. Yet, Exar was able to kill off an entire race, numbering thousands, to keep himself alive, sure he was killed 4000 years later, but it still took 14 jedi, 12 padawans, Luke and Kuns old master to kill him. Think about it, 2 lightsabers, 12 padawans/knights, 2 jedi masters (including one of the most powerful jedi ever; Luke and the old version of Yoda, Vodo-Baas, he trained lots of jedi, for some reason I think of him like an old Yoda), to kill off Kun's 4000 year old ionized air particles! He must have been near godlike when he was alive.

When Kun walked, the ground shook underneath him from the shear power of the dark side eminating from his body.

Exar did invent his own style of lightsaber combat, the double blade, also, his double blade was different than any other double blade. He was able to move it faster and aim more than with other double blades. Also, since Yoda had never seen a double bladed sabre, it would throw him off. Another thing is that Yoda's main advantage is his speed and force power, Exar is at least equal, probably greater in the force category and for speed, he can move his lightsaber so quickly that Yoda's advantage would be almost gone. Then Exar's experience and strength would lead him to a win.

Exar wore armor with a cortosis weave in it, that would allow him to be able to outlast Yoda.

There you go, now, I would like to know what would allow Yoda to beat this guy, he could hardly stand up to Sidious, what chance would he have against Exar?

That's great info, but I just don't like to see the little green dude beat. Do you have any thing on Yoda, I would like to know more about his travels before the episodes. I think Yoda faired well against Sidious having a busted leg and beginning to reaching his final years, while Sidious was in his prime or around his prime, but the Yoda v.s. Sidious argument is one I don't have the energy for right now.

Yoda really only got flung away at the end of the fight because of his weight. Truth be told Yoda is more than capable of killing badass Sith Lords. Sidious knew it

Agreed Nefarus

I actually don't know a whole lot on Yoda, however I do have a few speculations, but the facts first, he fought in the clone wars, the stark hyperspace wars and one more but I forget what it was right now.
And of course he was 900 years old, could deflect force lightning, had mastered form IV and form I (and probably more, after all you don't live to be 900 and only master 2 forms)

For what I think, well I actually think that Yoda may have met Darth Bane at one point, possible reasons for thinking this well:
-Yoda said in Dark Rondevous that he had faced great trials in the youth, what could be a greater trial than an extrememly powerful sith lord?
-Also, we know that jedi/sith can live for hundreds of years, lets say that Bane was 30 on Ruusan, then 100 years later (when Yoda came around, he would have been 130, by the time Yoda is trained, Bane could be 150, old, yes, but still alive)
-This also explains how Yoda's knows about the rule of two, he got Bane's holocron

But that is just speculation, only what I posted first is true (though I don't think my idea is impossible, it is actually probable)

It's good speculation however.

Thanks, and yes Yoda is at a disadvantage because of his weight, but that is his weight and he just has to cope with it. It is really one of his main disadvantages during a fight, and another thing that could lead Exar to win, Yoda will grow tired and Exar will still have strength left

.

lol

but really dan, I want to know why you think Yoda would win, I listed several reasons for Exar, and I am interested in what would allow Yoda to counter those

lmao, nice picture dan.

muchos grassy-ass.

!No se divierta de mi lengua! ?Que se pasa?

But it was a clever pic.

I don't know who would win for sure, but I will try to defend Yoda a bit just to help his cause.

freezing a senate isn't all that great to me, Sidious basically turned them to his cause, and these aren't Force users here. As for Vodo, I really don't think he was like Yoda. He was probably a consular, wise, and powerful but as good as Yoda? Doubtful. Jedi council members just 40 years later are a pushover for the Exile, and when he fought Exar he was trying to turn him back to the light side.

He was the most powerful student Vodo trained, while that is good, he isn't 900 so he probably only trained maybe 30 students if he was an instructor and not a master-padawan type guy. As for Exar learning, I don't know where you got Marka Ragnos. He claimed Exar as Dark lord but that was about it. He did learn from Freedon's spirit who learned from Naga Sadow though, which isn't bad but Freedon had Exar begging for life twice in which he was forced to use the dark side to live. He also got some amulet that increased his power and helped him to kill Freedon's spirit. Exar did drain the life out of the massassi race to preserve his spirit in the walls of the temples, which was smart and impressive. I don't know if the thousands of Jedi thing is right, but I don't have anything to contradict it so I will believe it.

About the Jedi not knowing he was recruiting Sith, Sidious talked to all the masters and they had no idea he was a Sith Lord, Revan was training Sith on Malachor V and the Jedi didn't know until he revealed himself so I don't think it's that much of an accomplishment. Lying to masters again, not that great since Revan could do it when he didn't even have the Force. He did invent the double bladed saber but it didn't give Maul much of an advantage on Qui-Gon and Obi who had never seen one so with Yoda's 900 years and hearing about Maul, I don't think it would give him much of an advantage, especially with how Yoda fights.

As for the cortosis weave, it is armor so it would slow him down a bit too, and look at the dozens of shadowtroopers that had cortosis suits and Kyle still defeated them with little difficulty. It might help him a bit, but not much. And while Exar has a vast amount of knowledge, so does Yoda. He knows the light side better than perhaps anyone, and he knows of the Dark Side too and how to fight it.

As for the Sidious fight, it looked pretty clear to me that Yoda was winning. It took Sidious' lightning to blast Yoda against the wall but he got back up without even breathing hard and knocked Sidious back even farther with just a Force push. Sidious even tried to run away, and then he called in the clones! Yoda dodged the senate pods and grabbed one Sidious was holding, spinned it around and shoved it back in his face. The only good move Sidious had was when Yoda jumped over to Sidious' pod, he caught Yoda off guard with a quick lightning blast to his lightsaber, and only because they were so high up did it help any. Then Sidious pours his lightning into Yoda who blocks it with his hands! Mace was struggling to keep it back with a lightsaber and Yoda reflected it back at him with his hands. Now granted they were both flung backwards, but it's simple chance that Sidious had something to grab onto and Yoda didn't, and after his fall and sensing the clones coming with his lightsaber gone, it's no surprise that he left.

Exar was a little arrogant, even as a spirit, so seeing an old two foot tall green dude might make him think the fight would be easy and therefore give Yoda an edge. Again, I'm not too sure who would win but I think the fight would be close...

Originally posted by Emperor Revan
I don't know who would win for sure, but I will try to defend Yoda a bit just to help his cause.

freezing a senate isn't all that great to me, Sidious basically turned them to his cause, and these aren't Force users here. As for Vodo, I really don't think he was like Yoda. He was probably a consular, wise, and powerful but as good as Yoda? Doubtful. Jedi council members just 40 years later are a pushover for the Exile, and when he fought Exar he was trying to turn him back to the light side.

He was the most powerful student Vodo trained, while that is good, he isn't 900 so he probably only trained maybe 30 students if he was an instructor and not a master-padawan type guy. As for Exar learning, I don't know where you got Marka Ragnos. He claimed Exar as Dark lord but that was about it. He did learn from Freedon's spirit who learned from Naga Sadow though, which isn't bad but Freedon had Exar begging for life twice in which he was forced to use the dark side to live. He also got some amulet that increased his power and helped him to kill Freedon's spirit. Exar did drain the life out of the massassi race to preserve his spirit in the walls of the temples, which was smart and impressive. I don't know if the thousands of Jedi thing is right, but I don't have anything to contradict it so I will believe it.

About the Jedi not knowing he was recruiting Sith, Sidious talked to all the masters and they had no idea he was a Sith Lord, Revan was training Sith on Malachor V and the Jedi didn't know until he revealed himself so I don't think it's that much of an accomplishment. Lying to masters again, not that great since Revan could do it when he didn't even have the Force. He did invent the double bladed saber but it didn't give Maul much of an advantage on Qui-Gon and Obi who had never seen one so with Yoda's 900 years and hearing about Maul, I don't think it would give him much of an advantage, especially with how Yoda fights.

As for the cortosis weave, it is armor so it would slow him down a bit too, and look at the dozens of shadowtroopers that had cortosis suits and Kyle still defeated them with little difficulty. It might help him a bit, but not much. And while Exar has a vast amount of knowledge, so does Yoda. He knows the light side better than perhaps anyone, and he knows of the Dark Side too and how to fight it.

As for the Sidious fight, it looked pretty clear to me that Yoda was winning. It took Sidious' lightning to blast Yoda against the wall but he got back up without even breathing hard and knocked Sidious back even farther with just a Force push. Sidious even tried to run away, and then he called in the clones! Yoda dodged the senate pods and grabbed one Sidious was holding, spinned it around and shoved it back in his face. The only good move Sidious had was when Yoda jumped over to Sidious' pod, he caught Yoda off guard with a quick lightning blast to his lightsaber, and only because they were so high up did it help any. Then Sidious pours his lightning into Yoda who blocks it with his hands! Mace was struggling to keep it back with a lightsaber and Yoda reflected it back at him with his hands. Now granted they were both flung backwards, but it's simple chance that Sidious had something to grab onto and Yoda didn't, and after his fall and sensing the clones coming with his lightsaber gone, it's no surprise that he left.

Exar was a little arrogant, even as a spirit, so seeing an old two foot tall green dude might make him think the fight would be easy and therefore give Yoda an edge. Again, I'm not too sure who would win but I think the fight would be close...


About freezing the senate, actually it is more impressive than you think because there were jedi there, he was able to freeze them and only Vodo could resist.

And yes, had forgotten that Marka only proclaimed him as dark lord

Also, I don't know Vodo's exact age, but I'm pretty sure it is over a hundred.

For the recruiting part, yes Sidious could talk to the masters and they didn't have a clue, and yes Revan could train them on Malachor V, but Exar recruited them on Ossus, the heart of the jedi order. He stood in the middle of the streets and recruited jedi, directly in front of the jedi masters, and only one had any idea what was going on. He even demonstarted the power of a sith amulet he had (which belonged to some ancient sith lord, I think Marka), that reaked of the dark side and no jedi could even sense it.

And yes, Yoda does have great knowledge of the force, but he does not have the artifacts from Ossus, which Exar does. Why can he not have these artifacts, because after Exar took them, he blew up and the sun, which destroyed the planet. About Yoda knowing about the dark side, yes he does, but not anywhere near what Exar does, he was able to study from Freedon Nadd and Naga Sadow's personal notes.

And yes, Yoda was winning the Sidious fight, but it was still not a quick victory, and Exar is far more powerful than Sid is. After all, if Sid was more powerful, than there would be no need for the Death Star, he could blow up a planet on his own.

And sure Exar was arrogant, but his own master was only 2-3 feet tall so he knows the power of the little guys and probably wouldn't underestimate him as much as you think.

Excellent points, didn't know there were Jedi in the senate, or Vodo's age. I still think it's a little cheap that the amulet increases his power by wearing it though.

My point about Yoda was he knows way more about the light side, obviously not as much about the dark side, but still more than one might think. And... well I've run out of things to support him with. Still haven't voted yet, though I am leaning a bit towards Exar...

Oh yes it is cheap that wearing the amulet increases his power, I won't argue with that, however it is a fact so I will say it in threads.

And about Yoda, yes he does know far more about the lightside than Exar does, but Exar knows a fair bit as well, and he knows WAY more about the darkside than Yoda does. This is how I see it (these are made up numbers and should not be quoted):
Yoda knows 90% of the lightside and 25-30% of the dark side
Exar knows 90-95% of the darkside and 35-40% of the lightside (I got that because he studied under Vodo and took lots of stuff from Ossus)

So when you look at those numbers, they both know a lot, and Yoda knows far more about the LS than Exar, but Exar isn't to shabby in that area and knows far more than Yoda in the DS, which is also more based on attack

I guess I will just throw in some random facts.


Sorry, but Yoda has seen double bladed lightsabers before. The Jedi Brutes use them to defend the temple.

Vodo was six hundred when he died.

GL said in a recent interview that if he makes anymore SW movies they will probably be about Yoda fighting Dark Jedi in his youth.

When Exar attacked Luke's Academy, he had the energy of an entire race to back him up.

You missed when I wished you a happy birthday on the 13th, Glentract!

Happy Late Birthday.

Glentract, thanks for the info on Vodo's age.

However, on your other points, Exar did not have the power of a race behind him when he attacked, he had been dormant for 4000+ years and has lost most if not all of that power.

And dealing with the bit about jedi brutes, personally I cannot believe jedi would call themselves brutes. Also, why then does no jedi in any recent book or movie (dealing with that era) use a double-blade. Sure they use them in the RotS game, but I think that was just thrown in to appease the fans, I don't believe that it is really true

Thanks Dipsit.

Well, since nothing contradicts Jedi having double-bladed lightsabers, it is considered true at this time.

And what makes you believe, darkstar, that Exar had lost most if not all of his power by the time Luke arrived there?

Originally posted by Lord Darkstar
Oh yes it is cheap that wearing the amulet increases his power, I won't argue with that, however it is a fact so I will say it in threads.

And about Yoda, yes he does know far more about the lightside than Exar does, but Exar knows a fair bit as well, and he knows WAY more about the darkside than Yoda does. This is how I see it (these are made up numbers and should not be quoted):
Yoda knows 90% of the lightside and 25-30% of the dark side
Exar knows 90-95% of the darkside and 35-40% of the lightside (I got that because he studied under Vodo and took lots of stuff from Ossus)

So when you look at those numbers, they both know a lot, and Yoda knows far more about the LS than Exar, but Exar isn't to shabby in that area and knows far more than Yoda in the DS, which is also more based on attack

Cool.

I would say Yoda knows 95-99% of the light side and Exar knows a flat 90% of dark side myself. Still, they are pretty equal in knowledge.

As for your later statement that Exar lost almost all his power, I hardly agree. Like Glentract said, he had the power of the massassi race drained into the temples which were a conduit for Force energy so I really think his power remained the same as a spirit which IMO would be roughly 35% or so of his full power when he died.

When I said that he lost most of his power I meant more that he lost all the power that the massassani had given him and some of his own and as for what makes me think that, well it is accepted fact that spirits grow weaker over time, Exar had been a spirit for over 4000 years, thus it stands to reason that he lost a lot of power

But his spirit doesn't matter, this is him in the flesh versus Yoda, and I think he can take it.

Oh, about your thing about Yoda fighting dark jedi in his youth, possible but I doubt it. Maybe he met up with Bane or somthing, but that would have been in Yoda's 30s. And for other people, sure he faced the nightsisters, but they have no lightsabers and their force powers are cheap impersonations of the sith teachings. I actually think it is something that they could repel Yoda, when they had only fragments of sith/jedi teachings, against someone like Exar who knows far more about the force than the nightsisters could learn in a dozen lifetimes, Yoda would be taken out even easier. Those are really the only opponents he could have faced unless you count the lost 20. Even there it is only 19 he could have possibly faced (Dooku was the last one and Yoda only faced him once), and out of those 19, I do not believe that all of them would fall to the dark side, maybe 4-8 at most, so Yoda does not have anywhere near the combat experience of Exar.

For the double-bladed lightsabers, I cannot disprove it, but even 4000 years before Yoda (in the time of KotOR), double blades are looked down on and described as not widely used because they are more agressive and are more like something a dark jedi uses (or something like that), so if they were looked down on 4000 years ago, I find it doubtful that they would be used in Yoda's conservative time

And if it was true, where the hell were they in the movies? Why weren't they mentioned ever. Not in any books or other games or in the movies or whatever... Piss poor EU stuff if you ask me

^ exactly

also, if you visit the starwars website and look at the 'sith lightsaber' you will see the double-blade, I cannot imagine jedi using a sith lightsaber

Bastila used a double bladed lightsaber. There, now you don't have to imagine it.


GL even said in a recent interview that if he does anymore movies, they will be about Yoda in his youth fighting dark Jedi, not 7, 8, and 9. Therefore, he has fought many darkjedi. In one of the movies(I think it was a movie, it may have been a book) that he faced great trials in his youth, more than any other Jedi alive when he went through them. I believe that he is refering to the darkjedi that he fought when he talks about this.

and if you will read above, you will see that she used it 4000 years ago and even then it was looked down on. Yoda's time is far more conservative so would certainly not use them. How do I know Yoda's time is more conservative, well they didn't want to accept Anakin for training at age 9, in Exar's time (only 40 years before Bastila) they were accepting 20-30 year olds for training (Nomi Sunrider being an example of this), they were also allowed to have kids and lovers. Also Vodo trained several jedi at a time and had several padawans, in Yoda's time that was unthinkable.

bump

I think you have won already Darkstar

It's over, exar wins

Originally posted by Apex
That's great info, but I just don't like to see the little green dude beat. Do you have any thing on Yoda, I would like to know more about his travels before the episodes. I think Yoda faired well against Sidious having a busted leg and beginning to reaching his final years, while Sidious was in his prime or around his prime, but the Yoda v.s. Sidious argument is one I don't have the energy for right now.

I agree, but I can't think of a way that Yoda can be killed by a lightsaber. He is so tiny and fast. I say it is going to be a stalemate

Funny how threads completely change after months, apparently.

Exaggerated knowledge, and making stuff up changes things like that. Darkstar presented a decent argument, and because no one had even read TOTJ, his argument went pretty much unanswered to (save for ER).



Exar didn't freeze the Jedi.

Damn this is an old thread I remember when it was first made... I wonder where Darkstar vanished to anyways.

http://img163.imageshack.us/img163/6797/sign7bz.png