About Darth Sidious vs Mace

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Nitros14
Everyone says Sidious got easily beat, but don't you think he would fake losing so that Anakin would have to help kill Mace and give in completely to the Dark Side? Don't you think Sidious planned the whole thing? That's what it says in the book Revenge of the Sith anyway :P.

Mako Victim
Mace owned that old man's ass..

Darth Plagues
Darth Sidious planned the entire thing...the book said it. If Sidious could take Yoda, well we should know for sure he could take Mace (duh)

Fishy
Remind me again, when did he take Yoda?

Darth Abominus
yah when did sidious take yoda?

Darth Plagues
Wait a minute...

Darth Plagues
196 INT. CORRIDOR-SENATE ARENA-CHANCELLOR'S HOLDING OFFICE-NIGHT

YODA enters, using the Force to throw two RED GUARDS against the wall, knocking them unconscious. DARTH SIDIOUS turns his chair toward YODA. MAS AMEDDA stands behind SIDIOUS's desk.

YODA: I hear a new apprentice, you have. Emperor, or should I call you Darth Sidious.

DARTH SlDIOUS: Master Yoda, you survived.

YODA: Surprised?

DARTH SlDIOUS: Your arrogance blinds you, Master Yoda. Now you will experience the full power of the dark side.

The Dark Lord raises his arms, and LIGHTNING BOLTS shoot out, surrounding YODA.
YODA is picked up and thrown across the room, hitting the wall and sliding down in a crumpled heap. DARTH SIDIOUS chuckles.
199 INT. CORRIDOR-SENATE ARENA-CHANCELLOR'S HOLDING OFFICE-NIGHT

MAS AMEDDA leaves the room. PALPATINE approaches a stunned YODA.

DARTH SlDIOUS: I have waited a long time for this moment, my little green friend. At last, the Jedi are no more.

YODA: Not if anything I have to say about it, Lord Sidious.

YODA uses the Force to throw DARTH SIDIOUS back, knocking him clear over his desk and onto the floor in a heap.

YODA: (continuing) At an end your rule is and not short enough it was, I must say.

DARTH SIDIOUS flies through the air, cape flapping, heading toward the exit. At the last second, YODA flies into the exit and stops the Dark Lord.

YODA: (continuing) If so powerful you are, why leave??

YODA ignites his lightsaber.

DARTH SlDIOUS: You will not stop me. Darth Vader will become more powerful than either of us.

DARTH SIDIOUS ignites his lightsaber.

YODA: Faith in your new apprentice, misplaced may be, as is your faith in the dark side of the Force.

Their swords CLASH. The battle is extremely fast and furious.
201 INT. CORUSCANT-SENATE CHAMBER-MAIN ARENA-NIGHT

PALPATINE seeks refuge in the vast Senate Chamber. He gets into the Chancellor's Podium and it starts to rise up into the Arena. YODA makes a giant leap into the control pod. The sword fighting is intense in the confined space.
203 INT. CORUSCANT-SENATE CHAMRER-MAIN ARENA-NIGHT

YODA unleashes a ferocious assault on PALPATINE, causing him to almost go over the edge. The Dark Lord drops his lightsaber but recovers with a BLAST OF ENERGY from his hands that surrounds YODA. YODA is deflecting the Sith Lord's lightning bolts.

The energy bolts begin to arc back on the Emperor. It looks as if the Dark Lord is doomed.

YODA: Destroy you I will, just as Master Kenobi, your apprentice will destroy.

YODA jumps to a lower Senate Pod. PALPATINE reaches out with one hand, and a Senate pod is released from its mooring and heads toward the Podium. PALPATINE uses the Force to hurl pod after pod at YODA, who ducks and jumps from one flying pod to another.

YODA leaps away from the pods. He uses the Force to hold one pod suspended in the air. The pod spins and YODA throws it back at PALPATINE, who leaps away at the last moment.

YODA leaps after him, but PALPATINE quickly turns and aims the full force of his energy bolts at the tiny green Jedi, catching him in mid-air and throwing him back hard against the Podium. The force causes YODA to drop his lightsaber. YODA blocks the lightning and throws PALPATINE backwards off the podium. YODA is knocked off the Podium and falls several hundred feet to the base of the Podium. PALPATINE follows in his pod, searching for YODA.

He clearly beat Yoda in Revenge of the Sith...This is from the script.

Darth Abominus
no he didn't. yoda clearly had the upper hand but just had lousy luck in losing his light sabre and falling from such a height, thus failing in his task in killing sidious.

Darth Mantis
^Sorry Plagues but I too feel that Yoda won... But since he fell from that height most people think Sidious won... Now if the area they fought was flat, well that would truly show who the victor would be...

Darth_DaNThEMaN
ok all you yoda humpers out there.......step out of the denial-mobile, and listen up.....


besides the book clearly stating yoda got owned. And even yoda himself admits it......sidious clearly wins the game of catch witht he pods, throwing numerous at a time, and floating on one while cackaling like a drunken idiot.(btw, yoda catches one, and he nearly has a stroke doing so).....he owns him via-lightning more than once. he is equal if not better with a saber. he DOES let mace win, if u read the book it SAYS it.
and yes, yoda does have the upper hand ONCE in the fight where he *****-slaps sids via force....but thats ONcE, and afterwards, runs away, then says....and i quote...."Into exile i must go, FAILED i have".......and dont give me the old "eh, he failed getting the senate....he failed this, he failed that........point is....he F*ckin failed! and is man enuff to admit it...........

its also vital to the story that yoda lose to sids, becuz its the whole point of the friggin movie! refer to the title....REVENGE OF THE SITH......not REVENGE OF THE YODA.......

in conclusion......i love yoda as much as the next guy, and he does give sids a good ass whippin'.....and yes, sids does try and run away, probly cuz he didnt wanna fight.....maybe even was scared, or doubting his own skill.......but the fact of the matter is this......no matter why he wanted to leave, he stayed, and won. so get over it.....im sick of this crap.

and therefore, i leave you with only this.......

Darth_Nefarus
I wouldn't say either of them were owned, but you're right, Yoda lost. After he took that spill off the senate pod, he ran away because he knew he couldn't take him.

Darth Mantis
Originally posted by Darth_DaNThEMaN
ok all you yoda humpers out there.......step out of the denial-mobile, and listen up.....


besides the book clearly stating yoda got owned. And even yoda himself admits it......sidious clearly wins the game of catch witht he pods, throwing numerous at a time, and floating on one while cackaling like a drunken idiot.(btw, yoda catches one, and he nearly has a stroke doing so).....he owns him via-lightning more than once. he is equal if not better with a saber. he DOES let mace win, if u read the book it SAYS it.
and yes, yoda does have the upper hand ONCE in the fight where he *****-slaps sids via force....but thats ONcE, and afterwards, runs away, then says....and i quote...."Into exile i must go, FAILED i have".......and dont give me the old "eh, he failed getting the senate....he failed this, he failed that........point is....he F*ckin failed! and is man enuff to admit it...........

its also vital to the story that yoda lose to sids, becuz its the whole point of the friggin movie! refer to the title....REVENGE OF THE SITH......not REVENGE OF THE YODA.......

in conclusion......i love yoda as much as the next guy, and he does give sids a good ass whippin'.....and yes, sids does try and run away, probly cuz he didnt wanna fight.....maybe even was scared, or doubting his own skill.......but the fact of the matter is this......no matter why he wanted to leave, he stayed, and won. so get over it.....im sick of this crap.

and therefore, i leave you with only this....... banana4

Darth_DaNThEMaN
lol, sorry mantis.....the truth had to be told.

i still love yoda though. dont be sad! Happy Dance

Darth Mantis
I know...bananapelada

Darth_DaNThEMaN
everyone agrees with me now though, right?

Darth_Nefarus
word

Nai Fohl
Originally posted by Darth Plagues
Darth Sidious planned the entire thing...the book said it. If Sidious could take Yoda, well we should know for sure he could take Mace (duh)

Erm..excuse me. Sidious FEARS Mace. That is what the book says. Not that Sidious planned that thing. He could have killed Mace and still pull Anakin over to the dark side...he had already three dead Jedi Masters lying around in his office and Anakin had no other option than joining Sidious to get the knowledge he thought he need to save Padme.

If Sidious would have been able to kill Mace he would have done that. So Mace owned Sidious. And if you suggest that Yoda is better than Mace, Yoda also would have owned Sidious. In a "fair" fight (and Mace vs Sidious was fair until Anakin came in) Yoda and Mace both would kill Sidious. No doubt.

Darth Plagues
If Darth Sidious knew he was going to lose to Mace Windu...why stay? Why risk the death of the Sith so early? Darth Sidious knew Mace was coming and he knew he wasn't coming alone. And do you remember what Darth Sidious told Mace. "You think that's my fear you feel?"

Darth_DaNThEMaN
Yes, he was sensing Anakin's fear, nai fohl.......not sidious'


read it again.

Fishy
You guys really are insane

Yeah Yoda lost from Sidious, but losing does not make you weaker... Its just makes the enemy smarter or gives him an advantage, Sidious took it every single time he could. The Roman army soldiers were not stronger then the soldiers in the Germanic army's but the Germans still lost. Same goes for Gaul. Being stronger does not guarantee victory about the Mace thing lets look at some simple facts okay.

- Yoda VS dooku, a very important fight because Yoda even though clearly superior to Dooku needed to use his lightsaber to win the fight. After Yoda lost his lightsaber he could hardly continue the fight. He failed but he was not really beaten.

- Obi Wan who was a lot weaker then Dooku blocked Dooku his lighting with his lightsaber. Sidious is more powerful then Dooku and Mace is sure as hell more powerful then Obi Wan is in AOTC. So it stands to reason that if a weak person who gets owned even when he's a lot stronger can do it against a strong opponent. Then somebody who is a lot stronger then Obi can do it against somebody who isn't that much more powerful then Dooku.

- Mace had the advantage even before Anakin came in, yeah sure Sidious could have planned it but that gives no reason for him to lose before Anakin comes in because Mace could have killed him already.

- Sidious risked everything by counting on Anakin and in the end you saw him begging Anakin to save him.

- Some say that Sidious stands up to fast after he gets shot by lightning could be... But Yoda got up fast after he got hit, Sidious got up fast after being hit again. Anakin got up reasonably fast after he got hit, Luke got up fast when being hit and he sure as hell is weaker then Sidious. In the end that hardly means anything.

- The book never says Sidious lost on purpose, if it did show me a quote and I'll believe you. It shouldn't be so hard, since the book clearly said Sidious was faking it.

- Mace was dominating the lightsaber fight and was clearly superior to Sidious with that, he even kicked Sidious his lightsaber away, and like I said earlier force attacks can be blocked with a lightsaber.

- There were times where Mace could have killed Sidious, a huge failure on Mace his part, but hardly something that speaks for Sidious his case.

Now tell me how was Sids winning?

Darth Plagues
And there were times when Sidious could have killed Mace...

http://photos1.blogger.com/img/259/4312/1024/193.jpg

Apex512
And what times were those. That fake lunge people keep posting, or when his lightning was reflected by Mace. Mace whipped Sids, people just won't believe Mace beat Sids, but Yoda couldn't. Well it happened, we all saw it. I'm with Fishy on this one, show me the quote. Because the movie shows Mace beat him, and he beat with out that much work either. Some could argue Mace was toying with Sids in that saber fight. Mace didn't look suprised until Sids lightning almost knocked him back, but he held on and could've killed Sidious, because Sids was already beat when Mace kicked him. After Mace kicked him the fight was pretty much over.

Darth Plagues
Fake lunge? Yeah that picture above is fake. You caught me...I hired Samuel L. Jackson to be Mace Windu and I also hired Ian McDiarmid to play as Darth Sidious for a quick camera shot.

Reallity check...thats a real picture...and if you don't belive me...I don't care. When "Revenge of the Sith" comes out for DVD you just pause it during the fight scene. And you'll just happen to find this scene in there.

Apex512
It's a real picture, but the move isn't a lunge directed to kill Mace, what I meant was he didn't have him beat at that point. Sids body was fully extended and he wasn't going any farther, and when I posted, you can't see the picture, its been taken out.

Darth_DaNThEMaN
ok, for those of you who are obsessed with mace, and obviously can't read, listen up.......

step 1: become literate
step 2: buy Revenge of the Sith the novel
step 3: read
step 4: feel dumb after reading

Apex512
Mace beat Sids in the movie. Post the part in the novel where Sids totally set up Mace and I will shut the hell up, but until then Mace beat Sids.

Admiral Akbar
I agree, you cant base mostly off of opinions, have some facts to go with it. As for Mace, his syle Vaapad is supposed to be powerful against siths am i correct?

Apex512
Some people just won't believe that because Yoda is stronger than Mace and he didn't beat Sids that Mace can't beat Sids. I think the movie made it pretty clear who won between Sids and Mace. This argument will never end though.

Apex512
One final thought people.

Mace and Yoda are the strongest Jedi at the time. People have quotes from Lucas that say "you have to be Mace or Yoda to hang with the Emperor," while others have quotes that say ."Mace and Yoda are equal." Sids knew they were the only threats to his reign of terror and feared them both to some extent. Mace went first and Sids knew he was coming, but Sids also had Anakin close by, who he knows has already turned to the darkside, he tells the Separatists he'll have a new apprentiece soon. So when he fights Mace he expects him to be good but not as good as he was, but he had Anakin close by to help if he needed it, and he needed help, therefore killing Mace. When Yoda came to fight Sids Anakin was gone, it was just him and Yoda. He knows nobody can save him this time around and he gives Yoda everything he can handle and beats him enough to have Yoda retreat. The reason Sids begs Anakin for help is that although he knows he'll turn, Anakin is taking to long to do it during the fight. Sids feels himself beginning to die and speeds up Anakin's turn to the darkside.

Just thought I'd leave you with that thought, until next time, I got to get up early in the morning. rock

Admiral Akbar
good point of view. I still believe mace is stronger than palpy, no one can persuade me differently.

Darth_DaNThEMaN
if anakin was not part of the plot, then sidious would have eaten mace for brunch.......i know that, and just because all of you are ignorant, im not going to let that get me down. i know im right, and badass. so long milkshakes.

Darth_Glentract
Alf sucks.

Darth_DaNThEMaN
the only thing alf sucks is the life and soul out of ur cat.

and you are about a **** hair away from p!ssin' me off, you wanKer.

Darth Abominus
lol

Nai Fohl
Originally posted by Darth_DaNThEMaN
ok, for those of you who are obsessed with mace, and obviously can't read, listen up.......

step 1: become literate
step 2: buy Revenge of the Sith the novel
step 3: read
step 4: feel dumb after reading

Sorry...but film > novel.

I know what the novel states. First Sidious fears Mace then he gives into his anger. When he does so his body slowly desintegrates and the same time Mace is getting weaker (Sidious force lightning causes Mace lightsaber to come close to his face). In this case Anakin is the deceiding factor. Mace can't take Sidious alone and Sidious can't take Mace alone. They both need help from Anakin.

But see...that clearly dissents the things we can see in the film. In the film we have Mace CLEARLY defeting Sidious. Sidious is on the ground and everything he can do is keep the lightsaber of Mace away by using force lightning and he can't do that very long since his body is getting weaker and weaker. In this situation it's only Sidious that needs help not Mace.

And for me the things that are shown in the film are more important than the things written in the novel. In the novel you also have Obi-Wan fighting and destroying thousands of droids to get to Grievous. Can that be seen in the film ?

Bobafetty
Originally posted by Darth_DaNThEMaN
the only thing alf sucks is the life and soul out of ur cat.

and you are about a **** hair away from p!ssin' me off, you wanKer.
ha ha ha. ZING!

Vaapad
Remember! If you read the books as a so called Star Wars user in these forums consistently quotes...

Mace uses the style of fighting called Vaapad. It is channeling the dark to light and channeling a dark user's force to repel his own attacks by re-channeling the energy exerted in the dark user's attack.

Mace Windu was known to be a Master at the art. Hence, the emperor did get owned.

In the case of Yoda, his style of fighting I forget...But, it involves all kinds of flips, dashes, jumps, etc. It is very hard to counter and very hard to deploy. The emperor could not handle the fines of the the little green guy so he resorted to using other measures. Yoda failed and did not lose. he knew he had to escape, thus demonstrating his wit and wisdom. An overconfident force user would stick around and try to continue fighting without his weapon. The movies and books make Obiwan look weak, but he did take down Darth Maul and Darth Vader. He owned them. Get involved deep into the star wars universe before you try to comment on what is weaker or stronger. One side draws on immediate instantaneous power, while the other deploys defense and is passive in its deployment.

Originally posted by Fishy
You guys really are insane

Yeah Yoda lost from Sidious, but losing does not make you weaker... Its just makes the enemy smarter or gives him an advantage, Sidious took it every single time he could. The Roman army soldiers were not stronger then the soldiers in the Germanic army's but the Germans still lost. Same goes for Gaul. Being stronger does not guarantee victory about the Mace thing lets look at some simple facts okay.

- Yoda VS dooku, a very important fight because Yoda even though clearly superior to Dooku needed to use his lightsaber to win the fight. After Yoda lost his lightsaber he could hardly continue the fight. He failed but he was not really beaten.

- Obi Wan who was a lot weaker then Dooku blocked Dooku his lighting with his lightsaber. Sidious is more powerful then Dooku and Mace is sure as hell more powerful then Obi Wan is in AOTC. So it stands to reason that if a weak person who gets owned even when he's a lot stronger can do it against a strong opponent. Then somebody who is a lot stronger then Obi can do it against somebody who isn't that much more powerful then Dooku.

- Mace had the advantage even before Anakin came in, yeah sure Sidious could have planned it but that gives no reason for him to lose before Anakin comes in because Mace could have killed him already.

- Sidious risked everything by counting on Anakin and in the end you saw him begging Anakin to save him.

- Some say that Sidious stands up to fast after he gets shot by lightning could be... But Yoda got up fast after he got hit, Sidious got up fast after being hit again. Anakin got up reasonably fast after he got hit, Luke got up fast when being hit and he sure as hell is weaker then Sidious. In the end that hardly means anything.

- The book never says Sidious lost on purpose, if it did show me a quote and I'll believe you. It shouldn't be so hard, since the book clearly said Sidious was faking it.

- Mace was dominating the lightsaber fight and was clearly superior to Sidious with that, he even kicked Sidious his lightsaber away, and like I said earlier force attacks can be blocked with a lightsaber.

- There were times where Mace could have killed Sidious, a huge failure on Mace his part, but hardly something that speaks for Sidious his case.

Now tell me how was Sids winning?

Stealth Moose
Dude, this thread is seven years old.

Jinsoku Takai
Originally posted by Vaapad
Remember! If you read the books as a so called Star Wars user in these forums consistently quotes...

Mace uses the style of fighting called Vaapad. It is channeling the dark to light and channeling a dark user's force to repel his own attacks by re-channeling the energy exerted in the dark user's attack.

Mace Windu was known to be a Master at the art. Hence, the emperor did get owned.

In the case of Yoda, his style of fighting I forget...But, it involves all kinds of flips, dashes, jumps, etc. It is very hard to counter and very hard to deploy. The emperor could not handle the fines of the the little green guy so he resorted to using other measures. Yoda failed and did not lose. he knew he had to escape, thus demonstrating his wit and wisdom. An overconfident force user would stick around and try to continue fighting without his weapon. The movies and books make Obiwan look weak, but he did take down Darth Maul and Darth Vader. He owned them. Get involved deep into the star wars universe before you try to comment on what is weaker or stronger. One side draws on immediate instantaneous power, while the other deploys defense and is passive in its deployment.

Necromancy?

Arab Jedi
In terms of saber dueling: Yoda> Mace> Sidious
In terms of force: Yoda = Sidious> Mace
Sidious did get lucky against Yoda but he was also holding back against Mace because he knew Annakin would come.

Darth_Glentract
Wooooowwwwwww.....cannot believe I have been on these forums to have been a part of this thread.....back in 2005. WTF

Pwned
Yeah, I migrated to this forum back in '06, so I missed a lot of it. Buts its even weirder thinking that I was on this site at the time. I feel..... Old.

KuRuPT Thanosi
Originally posted by Darth_Nefarus
I wouldn't say either of them were owned, but you're right, Yoda lost. After he took that spill off the senate pod, he ran away because he knew he couldn't take him.

Point me to ANY narration where Yoda expressed not being able to "take him"? He left because now the emperor was well above him and the troopers were on there way. Instead of risking his own life.. he knew the way to go was regroup for another day.

KuRuPT Thanosi
Originally posted by Darth Plagues
And there were times when Sidious could have killed Mace...

http://photos1.blogger.com/img/259/4312/1024/193.jpg

So somebody not quite reaching an opponent who is moving and leaning backwards to avoid it = not killing them but he could've... What type of ass backwards logic is going on in this thread. Sidious ALREADY killed 3 Jedi Masters.. he didn't need to toy with Mace to turn Anakin... he could've killed hm just like the others and still turned Anakin. IN FACT, that is EXACTLY what we see... him TRYING to kill Mace and FAILING. The facts are... both Mace and yoda came across as superior in sabers and Yoda came across as superior in the force AND sabers... I really don't know how that can be debated.

KuRuPT Thanosi
Originally posted by Darth_DaNThEMaN
if anakin was not part of the plot, then sidious would have eaten mace for brunch.......i know that, and just because all of you are ignorant, im not going to let that get me down. i know im right, and badass. so long milkshakes.

Prove it.. because canon narration and movie make it clear that Mace DISARMED and OVERPOWERED the emperor... It's all there on film. NOT ONCE in the film is there ANY dialoge that suggest Sids was going to throw the fight... NOT ONE. Until you can find such proof then shut the hell up... Either that or learn what the word proof really means.. I have a clue for you.. it doesn't mean YOUR SPECULATION.

Zampanó
C-C-C-COMBO BREAKER

KuRuPT Thanosi
That game was the shit back in the day.. I almost ALMOST blew a nut when it came out on Super Nintendo... Those were the days...

Lord Lucien
Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
Prove it.. because canon narration and movie make it clear that Mace DISARMED and OVERPOWERED the emperor... It's all there on film. NOT ONCE in the film is there ANY dialoge that suggest Sids was going to throw the fight... NOT ONE. Until you can find such proof then shut the hell up... Either that or learn what the word proof really means.. I have a clue for you.. it doesn't mean YOUR SPECULATION. facepalm Seven years ago, man. C'mon.

KuRuPT Thanosi
So his opinion has changed?

DARTH POWER
Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
So his opinion has changed?

It's probably changed 7 times by now. He might not even give a crap anymore. He might have got a life. Anything can happen in 7 years man!

Lord Lucien
Originally posted by Lord Lucien
facepalm Seven years ago, man. C'mon. None of those people have been online here since at least 2007.

the Darkone
Yoda didn't lose, he lost an opportunity to kill the greatest Sith Lord of All time, they were pretty much even, if Yoda didn't lose his Light Sabre or his footing Sidious would be in some serious trouble against the greatest foe of the Dark-side has ever known!!

I heard that Sidious was playing possum with Windu, I some what believe this, if you think about why was Sidious not using his force powers one of the greatest force user of all time, if he was using both he could have over whelmed Windu but we will never know. Sidious was arrogant to believe he could defeat one of the greatest swordsman of the Jedi Order history in sabres, and realize he made a big mistake, but lucky for him Anakin weak a$$ showed up just in time.

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