How is islam any worse than us

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black_goku#1
ok i am a christian, or was until my church said that muslims were going to burn in hell for serving the wrong lord and not believing in jesus. i have to disagree because they do believe in the one all powerful god. they were brought up differnt and view it differnt but still praise god. what makes us christians so special or so right as to believe our way of worship is the only right way?

Imlistening
I think that any religion that says that it is the true religion, and condems any other, is a religion thats full of s*h*it, therefore proving itself wrong. because if they cant prove that god exists then how can they even think of saying they are the one and only one thats getting anywhere.

Imlistening
heaven or otherwise.

cking
still they don't believe in Jesus. Muslims hate both Christians and Jews for religious reasons. Muslim originally came from Ishmael and Jews from Isaac.

finti
the one who answered yes tottally missed out on what faith really is all about.

debbiejo
You will know them by the love they have for each other.......

finti
who said it was?

DigiMark007
Must be a strict Christian denomination you're in there.

Most mainstream Christians (and most mainstream Muslims for that matter) don't condemn any other religions. It is the more extreme sects of these religions that begin to see theirs as the 'only' way.

Incidentally, the Koran mentions Allah's love for us something like 10 times more often than it mentions jihad or any sort of violence (at one point I knew the exact numbers but have forgotten). It's really a much more peaceful religion than popular conception would have us believe. It's just the extreme divisions of it that make the news, so our views are biased toward that outlook.

If your church blatently condemned Muslims, I'd run the other way. Or, even better, confront them and ask them to justify their claims and hopefully expand their minds a bit.

-DM

finti
people tried to ask the churchto do that for almost 2000 years know

DigiMark007
Yeah but that's on too large of a scale to work efficiently and sound like anything more than whiny skepticism...on an individual level it has much better results, at least in my experience.

finti
induvidual level in a church, that must be with god then big grin

sonnet
Originally posted by finti
induvidual level in a church, that must be with god then big grin

We do not lose our individuality just because we go to a church. We are not taught to condemn people but to love them. Through the love of God we can overcome many obstacles.

finti
even that of love between same gender?

sonnet
Originally posted by finti
even that of love between same gender?

His talking about love as in respect, show compassion NOT SEXUAL love.

finti
love between same gender doesnt have to be just a sexual love, they are just as respectful and compassionate as straight people

sonnet
Originally posted by finti
love between same gender doesnt have to be just a sexual love, they are just as respectful and compassionate as straight people

OKAY!!! It is not a romantic love He was talking about, so it should be applicable to any gender. HAPPY????

finti
now was that so hard to admit

sonnet
Originally posted by finti
now was that so hard to admit

stick out tongue I know you are grinning over there.

finti
indeed I am, and I guess it is up there more than over there

debbiejo
Originally posted by sonnet
We do not lose our individuality just because we go to a church. We are not taught to condemn people but to love them. Through the love of God we can overcome many obstacles.

But the church looks down and feels sorry for them......pity pity pity.

sonnet
Originally posted by finti
indeed I am, and I guess it is up there more than over there

Yeah, Yeah

finti
right yet again, but not as that was any surprisedevil

sonnet
Originally posted by finti
right yet again, but not as that was any surprisedevil

That is the secret of being a woman- always let the men think they are right. wink

debbiejo
Originally posted by sonnet
That is the secret of being a woman- always let the men think they are right. wink

That's true sonnet...

finti
and the secret of being a man is let women think they are able to think evil face

sonnet
Originally posted by debbiejo
But the church looks down and feels sorry for them......pity pity pity.
It probably depends on which church you are attending.

finti
Church of the poisoned minds?

debbiejo
Originally posted by finti
and the secret of being a man is let women think they are able to think evil face


Boy, we got you fooled......It's all in the grand plan....God is a woman.

finti
i am the grand plan

debbiejo
Originally posted by finti
i am the grand plan

Clever, but not clever enough.....Ask Zeus.....

sonnet
Originally posted by finti
and the secret of being a man is let women think they are able to think evil face
notworthy We are not worthy of your greatness!

finti
I know

debbiejo
Originally posted by sonnet
notworthy We are not worthy of your greatness!

Sonnet don't do it....come back to us...come baaackkk...

finti
spelled by norse magic

debbiejo
Sonnet please don't goooo.....we women neeeed youuuu>>>>It's a trick..he'll only devour you.

cking
listen to this, this is what Muslims really are. when Sarah mad at Hagar for her sufferings for not having a child and she mistreated her and Hagar ran away. Then the angel of the lord found her by a spring of water in the wilderness, the spring on the way to shur. He said, "Hagar, slave of Sarah, where have you come from, and where are you going?" She replied, "I'm running away from my mistress Sarah. Then the angel of the lord said to her, "you must go back to your mistress and submit to her mistreatment." The angel of the lord also said to her, " I will greatly multiple your offspring, and they will be too many to count. Then the angel said to her: you have conceived and will have a son. You will name him Ishmael, for the lord has heard your cry of affliction. This man will be like a wild ass. His hand will be against everyone, and everyone's hand will be against him; he will live at odds with all his brothers. This greatly applies today. When he said he will be against his brothers, he means both Jews and Christians. It says that all nations will he blessed through Abraham. Here's what is says about the call of Abraham: Go out from your land, your relatives, and your father's house to the land that I will show you. I will make you into a great nation, I will bless you, I will make your name great, and you will be a blessing. I will bless those who bless you, I will curse those who curse you with contempt, and all the peoples on earth will be blessed through you. When Isaac was born, he would be the chosen one to be given the full blessings of the covenant and the future hope of Jesus. Ishmael was the oldest and wasn't given the full blessings but he had many Muslim nations from him. when Abraham sent both Hagar and Ishmael away, only because Sarah was mad at Ishmael for making fun of young isaac, she didn't want him him to be the coheir of the blessings. So both were wondering in the deserts on the verge of starvation and no water, the angel of the lord appeared. He said, "what's wrong, Hagar? don't be afraid, for the lord has heard the voice of the boy form the place where he is. Get up, help the boy up, and sustain him, for I will make him a great nation." Then the lord opened her eyes and she saw a well of water. So she went and filled the water skin and gave the boy a drink. Abraham wanted Ishmael to have the the covenant, but God said no. He wanted Isaac. Only because of Abraham God did make Ishmael a great nation because he was his son. this is very similar when ishmael would be against his brother, when The christians and muslims were fighting against each other for the holy land, the same with the jews in Palestine. brother against brother.

finti
todays bible lesson roll eyes (sarcastic)

debbiejo
I know that story.....but didn't it end when she built her house out of sticks?

finti
and then the big bad wolf came huffing and puffing

debbiejo
Originally posted by finti
and then the big bad wolf came huffing and puffing

And then he had chest pains and had to go to hell....France.

finti
after the three little pigs, the french , italian and swedish prime ministers as they also are known as

debbiejo
Yes, that's true...that is who they are.....They went to the UN...where there's gnashing of teeth...

cking
true she did.

finti
and met the monkey boy Dubya and his sidekick Cheeeeeeney the horse

cking
If any Christian such as us every went to a Muslim nation such as Iraq or Iran, the terroristic Muslims would have no problem killing us. Many churches in Iraq are being destroyed by suicidal bombers. The greatest hit nation of Christian persecution is Sudan in Africa.

debbiejo
blink laughing out loud laughing out loud

Not gonna tell you who I voted for.

finti
guess it was the stable mates mentioned

finti
contra the great "hunting places" for muslims Iraq and Afghanistan

cking
she probably did

cking
has anyone ever read the book the Koran? It is the Muslim book. I never seen it before. I would like to compare both the bible and the Koran.

black_goku#1
Originally posted by cking
still they don't believe in Jesus. Muslims hate both Christians and Jews for religious reasons. Muslim originally came from Ishmael and Jews from Isaac.


yeah but most christians hate muslims for their different views
how r we different

cking
not true.

cking
we don't hate anyone.

debbiejo
Cking, you have to use your edit button on the right lower side of your last post if you want to add on or change what you've said....makes for less post space.

cking
well it try to but it doesn't always workout that way because I have to think of different things at once and sometimes I can't do that and that is why my messages aren't that long.

black_goku#1
then why is it in church that i am taught that muslims are bad people who would die for the wrong religion? what if that is how they feel about us? My youth leader said that all people have a chansce in their lives to convert to christianity, and if they dont they will burn in hell. tell me how is that fair. what if their religion is right but we dont want to change because we were taught and live by our own religion. is it right to judge them for beliving differnt.


and how can you say we dont hate them too? 9-11 happened and everyone of islam was looked at as a monster. we see them as primative people who no nothing but imagine what we are in their eyes

sonnet
Originally posted by debbiejo
Sonnet please don't goooo.....we women neeeed youuuu>>>>It's a trick..he'll only devour you.
pray Please forgive the temporary insanity. I'm OK now!!!

debbiejo
Originally posted by sonnet
pray Please forgive the temporary insanity. I'm OK now!!!


big grin I'm glad you're back.

cking
I'll forgive you.

cking
Islam is a confused religion with some books like genesis, exodus and others. I have a book called so what's the difference between the religions and if you have a question about Muslims, I can look it up for you.

black_goku#1
my only question is why are we so special

debbiejo
Originally posted by black_goku#1
my only question is why are we so special

We are special because we are the essence of god.

sonnet
Originally posted by debbiejo
We are special because we are the essence of god.

And because we are God's creation. God's love is for his whole creation.

black_goku#1
so are they in there own way

sonnet
Originally posted by black_goku#1
so are they in there own way

They are included in God's creation!!

black_goku#1
and if they still believe why are they wrong

finti
is it narrowed down to us and them now? Cause I wont be considered a christian and I aint no muslim either, there is more to this world than those backwoods conservative religions, unlike the two mentioned religion the rest of us follow the time

black_goku#1
no i mean all religions together. ive noticed that christians put their religion before anyone elses. we arent openminded i guess is my problem. though i dont kmon why i keep sayin we i guess im athiest now

Bardock42
So what you are saying is you used to believe in god, then your religious group said they hate muslims now you don't belive in god anymore...well I am sorry but that is major Bullshit......if you believe in god do it, but don'*t just change your mind when some person from your Confession says something that you dislike, not that person is (if there is a god) the Speaker for him, god either is or isn't butthat doesn't change because some idiot says something.

markie
Originally posted by debbiejo
You will know them by the love they have for each other....... Actually sweetheart, by their works you will know them kjv. Jesus said by this they will know you are my deciples, in that ye have love one for another.

debbiejo
Originally posted by markie
Actually sweetheart, by their works you will know them kjv. Jesus said by this they will know you are my disciples, in that ye have love one for another.

Yes disciples....people that follow his teachings....We are all to be disciples of love. That was his message.

This is My commandment, that you love one another as I have loved you. Jn 15:12

Sorry if I misquoted the other verse, but it does boil down to the same point.



Why is it that everybody likes to call me dear and sweetheart.

black_goku#1
Originally posted by Bardock42
So what you are saying is you used to believe in god, then your religious group said they hate muslims now you don't belive in god anymore...well I am sorry but that is major Bullshit......if you believe in god do it, but don'*t just change your mind when some person from your Confession says something that you dislike, not that person is (if there is a god) the Speaker for him, god either is or isn't butthat doesn't change because some idiot says something.


it was my whole church, my family and sunday school at a whole different church. all believe ours is the only right way and i dont want to be part of a (whats the word) byaist clergy, so no it aint bullshit to veiw a past religion wrong for different views. i never said i didnt still believe, i just dont go to church so there

markie
Originally posted by debbiejo
Yes disciples....people that follow his teachings....We are all to be disciples of love. That was his message.

This is My commandment, that you love one another as I have loved you. Jn 15:12

Sorry if I misquoted the other verse, but it does boil down to the same point.



Why is it that everybody likes to call me dear and sweetheart. I know I just didn't remember seeing it like you quoted it. Maybe people call you dear and sweetheart because you Are dear and sweet. I didn't know they did I thought I was the only one but I just got here a couple of days ago. If it bothers you I won't that is a pretty aviater though.

debbiejo
Originally posted by markie
I know I just didn't remember seeing it like you quoted it. Maybe people call you dear and sweetheart because you Are dear and sweet. I didn't know they did I thought I was the only one but I just got here a couple of days ago. If it bothers you I won't that is a pretty aviater though.

Thank you...I only wondered because in the last 3 days 3 people have called me dear...I was just hoping it wasn't a insult.

I love that aviater too...Here's the whole pic.

black_goku#1
Originally posted by debbiejo
Thank you...I only wondered because in the last 3 days 3 people have called me dear...I was just hoping it wasn't a insult.

I love that aviater too...Here's the whole pic.

beautiful

debbiejo
Originally posted by finti
is it narrowed down to us and them now? Cause I wont be considered a christian and I aint no muslim either

Ahwww you count....You're just in the category labeled "Other".. big grin

finti
or the people of reality as we also can go by

markie
Originally posted by debbiejo
Thank you...I only wondered because in the last 3 days 3 people have called me dear...I was just hoping it wasn't a insult.

I love that aviater too...Here's the whole pic. I don't mean it that way, I don't know what other people are thinking but I don't mean it that way.

markie
Originally posted by debbiejo
Thank you...I only wondered because in the last 3 days 3 people have called me dear...I was just hoping it wasn't a insult.

I love that aviater too...Here's the whole pic. You're beautiful. I copied the picture and put it in my files.

markie
Debbiejo you are beautiful.

debbiejo
Originally posted by markie
Debbiejo you are beautiful.

Thank you, but you realize that aviater pic isn't me....I just love that picture.

ushomefree

finti
chough cough David Koresh cough cough Jim Jones cough cough

ushomefree
If people take matters into their own hands, and divert from the teachings of Jesus Christ and commit murder or perform any other act(s) not condusive to Christianity, then that becomes a personal endeavor. David Koresh and Jim Jones were mentally warped, and their actions had no bearing in relation to the teachings of Jesus Christ.

debbiejo
Originally posted by ushomefree
If people take matters into their own hands, and divert from the teachings of Jesus Christ and commit murder or perform any other act(s) not condusive to Christianity, then that becomes a personal endeavor. David Koresh and Jim Jones were mentally warped, and their actions had no bearing in relation to the teachings of Jesus Christ.

Don't you know????? they're all on Haleys comet......I saw them pass by...

CosmicSurfer
Originally posted by debbiejo
Thank you...I only wondered because in the last 3 days 3 people have called me dear...I was just hoping it wasn't a insult.

I love that aviater too...Here's the whole pic.

That's a gorgeous pic.

Just out of curiousity, are you Indian?

finti
yeah she is from Bombay actually

To them and their followers they had realtion to theaching of jesus,.............................. and further on when it comes to extremist in the faith of Islam they are considered to be muslims.

Imperial_Samura
True, and historically Christianity has had plenty of examples of extremism, I am sure they need not be mentioned here (of, for the sake of it the most obvious ones is nothing less then the Crusades). The fact is that whenever you deal with religion there will be fanatics willing to do many things that are bad. And for the record no religion has the right, in my eyes, to claim it is the "one and only". It is far to much when there are thousands out there all promising to be "the one" but offering no proof, just demanding blind faith.

black_goku#1
Originally posted by Imperial_Samura
True, and historically Christianity has had plenty of examples of extremism, I am sure they need not be mentioned here (of, for the sake of it the most obvious ones is nothing less then the Crusades). The fact is that whenever you deal with religion there will be fanatics willing to do many things that are bad. And for the record no religion has the right, in my eyes, to claim it is the "one and only". It is far to much when there are thousands out there all promising to be "the one" but offering no proof, just demanding blind faith.
true

maham
Originally posted by black_goku#1
ok i am a christian, or was until my church said that muslims were going to burn in hell for serving the wrong lord and not believing in jesus. i have to disagree because they do believe in the one all powerful god. they were brought up differnt and view it differnt but still praise god. what makes us christians so special or so right as to believe our way of worship is the only right way?
n 1 more thin : V DO BLIEVE IN JESUS CHRIST LIKE THE CHRISTIANS!!!

but the only difference is that v don't blieve that he is the "SON OF GOD"

fr heaven sakes ! God has no son or any relative . HE is the 1 n the only God in this whole wide universe who has the power 2 do anythin.

comin to the topic i choose yes on the basis that well ..every1 thinks that wat he follows is the best

maham
Originally posted by finti
yeah she is from Bombay actually

To them and their followers they had realtion to theaching of jesus,.............................. and further on when it comes to extremist in the faith of Islam they are considered to be muslims.

i don't think so . there is no relation bw Islam n extremism n all

like i said i m a muslim

black_goku#1
Originally posted by maham
n 1 more thin : V DO BLIEVE IN JESUS CHRIST LIKE THE CHRISTIANS!!!

but the only difference is that v don't blieve that he is the "SON OF GOD"

fr heaven sakes ! God has no son or any relative . HE is the 1 n the only God in this whole wide universe who has the power 2 do anythin.

comin to the topic i choose yes on the basis that well ..every1 thinks that wat he follows is the best

well i also believe in jesus

Shakyamunison
Islam is not worse than us...

Go look at my thread "If God were to tell you to, would you fly an airplane into a building?"

maham
Originally posted by black_goku#1
well i also believe in jesus

i think u got it wron. i wasn't arguin with u or anythin.infact i do think it's a gud n i appreciate watever u said but i was just correctin u (or ur church ,watever) cuz they say that v don't blieve in Jesus but v do just like any other christian

cking
God wasn't behind the twin towers, the terrorists were behind that. even people in wars say that the only reason we won because god gave us the victory. wrong, God never takes sides and he never takes pleasure in watching people get hurt. only people are good at that.

maham
may b so

finti
you missed my point, my point was when christian extremist do stuff they are not regarded as christians, when extremist islamists do stuff they are regarded as muslims nevertheless

black_goku#1
Originally posted by maham
i think u got it wron. i wasn't arguin with u or anythin.infact i do think it's a gud n i appreciate watever u said but i was just correctin u (or ur church ,watever) cuz they say that v don't blieve in Jesus but v do just like any other christian

oh my bad i just dont like how my religion belittels others. its not right

Sam Z
Originally posted by cking
still they don't believe in Jesus. Muslims hate both Christians and Jews for religious reasons. Muslim originally came from Ishmael and Jews from Isaac.

Actully we DO believe in Jesus but we believe that he was a prophet like Mohammad, not that he is a son of the God. And we DON'T hate anybody for their religious reasons.

Sam Z
Originally posted by DigiMark007
Must be a strict Christian denomination you're in there.

Most mainstream Christians (and most mainstream Muslims for that matter) don't condemn any other religions. It is the more extreme sects of these religions that begin to see theirs as the 'only' way.

Incidentally, the Koran mentions Allah's love for us something like 10 times more often than it mentions jihad or any sort of violence (at one point I knew the exact numbers but have forgotten). It's really a much more peaceful religion than popular conception would have us believe. It's just the extreme divisions of it that make the news, so our views are biased toward that outlook.

If your church blatently condemned Muslims, I'd run the other way. Or, even better, confront them and ask them to justify their claims and hopefully expand their minds a bit.

-DM

So very true, I also want to add that jihad is actually not what people used to think now and all because of the damn extremist sects that call themselvs "muslims". Jihad is actually called a "saint war" and it idea is to make other people believe in Islam but NOT by forcing them to believe in it but by telling them about Islam's ideas so they could become muslims if they like.

Aziz!
Islam is full of shit. Just like every other religion except for Buddhism.

Sam Z
Originally posted by Aziz!
Islam is full of shit. Just like every other religion except for Buddhism.

Let me guess, you are buddhist?

Aziz!
Originally posted by Sam Z
Let me guess, you are buddhist?

No, atheist. But Buddhism is the only religion that doesn't generally piss me off.

Sam Z
Originally posted by Aziz!
No, atheist. But Buddhism is the only religion that doesn't generally piss me off.

I doubt you know much about ALL world religions to say that...

Aziz!
Originally posted by Sam Z
I doubt you know much about ALL world religions to say that...

Oh I'm suppose there's another religion out there as peaceful.

But I'm still looking for it.

Sam Z
Originally posted by Aziz!
Oh I'm suppose there's another religion out there as peaceful.


Yeah confused Almost all of them are peaceful.

Aziz!
Originally posted by Sam Z
Yeah confused Almost all of them are peaceful.

Spanish inquisition?
Salem witch trials?
9/11?
Scope monkey trials?
The crusades?

Sam Z
Originally posted by Aziz!
Spanish inquisition?
Salem witch trials?
9/11?
Scope monkey trials?
The crusades?

Crusades actually were about getting more territories and power and religion was just a cover for that.
And what about 9/11? Terrorism has nothing to do with religion.

Alliance
Terrorism has a lot to do with religion. Religious conquest was part of the reason for the cruades, but not all. It was a plantant pert of the inquizition/which trials/modern day stuff. It played part of a role in 9-11, but it was mostly the bastardization of the Middle East by the US.

On Islam though, there is one thing that I am eternally grateful for. When the Western Roman empire collapsed, and Europe fell into darkness, it was the Islamic empire that took over the cultural and scientific development of the time. (I believe this was also part of the reason why Islam spread so quickly during this time) Thier advances in medicine, astronomy, navigation, literature, music, and science/culture/art in general kept safe and expanded on the work of the Classic cultures. It was their brilliance that triggered the Reniassance in Europe and restored some intelligent thought and culture to a very VERY dark (and stupid) Christian land. They protected intelligence fro the dark age grip on Europe. Therefore, I shall always be grateful for that.

Sam Z
Originally posted by Alliance
Terrorism has a lot to do with religion. Religious conquest was part of the reason for the cruades, but not all. It was a plantant pert of the inquizition/which trials/modern day stuff. It played part of a role in 9-11, but it was mostly the bastardization of the Middle East by the US.



But the only connection between 9/11 and Islam I see is that Terrorists were calling themselvs muslims but it doesn't mean that religion it self has something in common with terrorism or vialance. Millions of people all over the world make crimes and it has nothing to do with their beliefs. Those basterds that took part in 9/11 were NOT muslims, they only thought they were because no muslim that really believes in what Koran says would kill thousand of innoscent people.

King KAM
Originally posted by DigiMark007
Must be a strict Christian denomination you're in there.

Most mainstream Christians (and most mainstream Muslims for that matter) don't condemn any other religions. It is the more extreme sects of these religions that begin to see theirs as the 'only' way.

Incidentally, the Koran mentions Allah's love for us something like 10 times more often than it mentions jihad or any sort of violence (at one point I knew the exact numbers but have forgotten). It's really a much more peaceful religion than popular conception would have us believe. It's just the extreme divisions of it that make the news, so our views are biased toward that outlook.

If your church blatently condemned Muslims, I'd run the other way. Or, even better, confront them and ask them to justify their claims and hopefully expand their minds a bit.

-DM Christianity is a slave religion, but so is Islam, its like picking the lesser of 2 evils, its an oximoron, being muslim is no better than being christian, you both have slaved and killed people in the name of "alah/god" and that is fact.

Sam Z
Originally posted by King KAM
Christianity is a slave religion, but so is Islam, its like picking the lesser of 2 evils, its an oximoron, being muslim is no better than being christian, you both have slaved and killed people in the name of "alah/god" and that is fact.

That's what you heard on TV. Whoever killed somebody would've done it even if he was atheist so religion is NOT the reason of his duties unless he is a crazy fanatic who really believs that he does it in the name of God and still it wouldn't be religion's falt but falt of the fanatic. No real muslim would ever kill anybody in the name of God.

debbiejo
Killing in any gods name is nothing but myth based.......All those gods did the same biddings. It would be Ego, and ego is from man, not something superior like a god would be.....It's a human flaw.

Alliance
Originally posted by Sam Z
But the only connection between 9/11 and Islam I see is that Terrorists were calling themselvs muslims but it doesn't mean that religion it self has something in common with terrorism or vialance. Millions of people all over the world make crimes and it has nothing to do with their beliefs. Those basterds that took part in 9/11 were NOT muslims, they only thought they were because no muslim that really believes in what Koran says would kill thousand of innoscent people.

Classic distancing. You cannot just lop of a section of practicioners in this case militant-fundamentalist Muslims and say they don't exist. All religions have extremist wings. They gain power and rise and fall with time. That doesn't mean they don't exist. The attacks were mostly political, but they have very religious undertones and they are certainly not wrong in having them.

Sam Z
Originally posted by Alliance
Classic distancing. You cannot just lop of a section of practicioners in this case militant-fundamentalist Muslims and say they don't exist. All religions have extremist wings. They gain power and rise and fall with time. That doesn't mean they don't exist. The attacks were mostly political, but they have very religious undertones and they are certainly not wrong in having them.

Let's look at it that way. They are terrorists that believe in Allah. They make terracts but the thing is that they would've made that even if they didn't believed in Allah. By your logic one may say that Buddhism aproves killing million of people because Hitler was buddhist (I'm not sure but i heard he was). But again you can't blame religion for some fanatics that got everything wrong and really believe they do something good.

Alliance
I seriously dont believe Hitler was buddhist.

I don't, by any means, BLAME Islam for any terrorism. (other people might be). As you know I have great respect for Islam. I am simply stating that Terrorists USE Islam as a rationale for their militarism. Its certainly not the fault of the religion or its everyday practicioners.

Religions are easily accessible to fanatics, it simpyl is the nature of religion.

Sam Z
Originally posted by Alliance
I seriously dont believe Hitler was buddhist.

I don't, by any means, BLAME Islam for any terrorism. (other people might be). As you know I have great respect for Islam. I am simply stating that Terrorists USE Islam as a rationale for their militarism. Its certainly not the fault of the religion or its everyday practicioners.

Religions are easily accessible to fanatics, it simpyl is the nature of religion.

May be he wasn't, there were many theories about his religion.

Then I must've misunderstood your post, I totally agree, religions are accessible to fanatics.

Alliance
cool

King KAM
Originally posted by Sam Z
That's what you heard on TV. Whoever killed somebody would've done it even if he was atheist so religion is NOT the reason of his duties unless he is a crazy fanatic who really believs that he does it in the name of God and still it wouldn't be religion's falt but falt of the fanatic. No real muslim would ever kill anybody in the name of God. considering these muslims did this before christ even exisited i would say that they were pretty real muslims, "the higher power" doesnt kill anyone, but religions do, religions are cults, cults are gangs, and yes islam has blood on is hands just as christianity, they have both lead, "holy" wars.

Sam Z
Originally posted by King KAM
considering these muslims did this before christ even exisited i would say that they were pretty real muslims, "the higher power" doesnt kill anyone, but religions do, religions are cults, cults are gangs, and yes islam has blood on is hands just as christianity, they have both lead, "holy" wars.

WTF?! There were no muslims before christ existed. Christianity is older than Islam. Tell me, when EVER islam aproved terrorism? You can't blame religion for the crimes people do coz they would've done these crimes anyway no matter if they believe in God or not.

Lord Urizen
Sam Z...

Salem Witch Trials, Crusades, Inquisition....need I say more ?

Sam Z
Originally posted by Lord Urizen
Sam Z...

Salem Witch Trials, Crusades, Inquisition....need I say more ?

I already told you what I think about it. Inquisition and Salem Witch Trials were popular two centurys ago and all that was done by churche and churche that time was not just a place for praying but a political branch of power, all they did was pointed at making people fear of them or to get more territories and religion was just a cover so even then religion never aproved violance. It was a falt of people who wanted power and fanatics and religion had nothing to do with this

Lord Urizen
Perhaps not.

But the Bible promotes Death as punishment. This is undeniable bro

"No man shall layeth with a man as he would layeth with woman...that is detestable and punishable by death"


Stoning of criminals, burning of bodies were acceptable punishments in the Bible.

Lord Urizen
Not to mention the Isrealites take over of other nations and slaughter of thier "Pagan" Children.

Sam Z
Originally posted by Lord Urizen
Perhaps not.

But the Bible promotes Death as punishment. This is undeniable bro

"No man shall layeth with a man as he would layeth with woman...that is detestable and punishable by death"


Stoning of criminals, burning of bodies were acceptable punishments in the Bible.

You can't take everything in Bible literally, there are such things in Bible and Koran that are called death sins. It doesn't mean you should be killed for having sex with men, by saying death sin they mean the sin that is so bad that would have the same punishment after your death as if you caused somebody's death.

lil bitchiness
Originally posted by black_goku#1
ok i am a christian, or was until my church said that muslims were going to burn in hell for serving the wrong lord and not believing in jesus. i have to disagree because they do believe in the one all powerful god. they were brought up differnt and view it differnt but still praise god. what makes us christians so special or so right as to believe our way of worship is the only right way?
???

Muslims believe in Jesus. They don't believe he was a God, but they do believe he was a prophet of God.

Get your facts straight, or pay attention in church.

Sam Z
Originally posted by lil bitchiness
???

Muslims believe in Jesus. They don't believe he was a God, but they do believe he was a prophet of God.

Get your facts straight, or pay attention in church.

So very true.

Alliance
Indeed. People have SO many misconceptions about Islam as a religion.

Not that I'm an expert on Islam.

Sam Z
Originally posted by Alliance
Indeed. People have SO many misconceptions about Islam as a religion.

Not that I'm an expert on Islam.

But you know basic ideas, I hate when people judge when they have no idea.

Alliance
Tis true big grin

Lord Urizen
You can't take everything in Bible literally, there are such things in Bible and Koran that are called death sins. It doesn't mean you should be killed for having sex with men, by saying death sin they mean the sin that is so bad that would have the same punishment after your death as if you caused somebody's death.


Okay fair enough. Who's to say they know the CORRECT way to intrepret the Bible though?





But you know basic ideas, I hate when people judge when they have no idea.



Then stop judging gay people please.

Sam Z
Originally posted by Lord Urizen
Okay fair enough. Who's to say they know the CORRECT way to intrepret the Bible though?

There is no need to intrepret, it's easy to realise if you read it all and carefully.


Originally posted by Lord Urizen
Then stop judging gay people please.

First of all that was not addressed to you
and second I never judged anyone if you read our last conversation.

Lord Urizen
There is no need to intrepret, it's easy to realise if you read it all and carefully.


No...everyone inteprets things in the Bible differently. Whose to say who has the correct interpretation ? The different Christian sects argue about the facts of the Bible ALL THE TIME..thats why there are different sects.






First of all that was not addressed to you
and second I never judged anyone if you read our last conversation.



No ? Do u think gay people are going to Hell ? And if so,why ?

Sam Z
Originally posted by Lord Urizen
No...everyone inteprets things in the Bible differently. Whose to say who has the correct interpretation ? The different Christian sects argue about the facts of the Bible ALL THE TIME..thats why there are different sects.


I'm not going to argue about Bible bacause I have to admit I'm not an expert in it too, but what i do know is that quote you gave wasn't argued by sects. It is really plain what they mean.


Originally posted by Lord Urizen
No ? Do u think gay people are going to Hell ? And if so,why ?

I do think so, and I have a right to think so just as you have right to be gay. And I do think so because I believe in what Koran says.

Lord Urizen
I do think so, and I have a right to think so just as you have right to be gay. And I do think so because I believe in what Koran says.

Yes, you do have the right to beleive whatever you beleive. I can never argue with that.

However, that does not make your beleifs TRUE.

On the other hand I also have the right to think that you are wrong, and that the fact that you rely on the Quran for most of your answers makes you limitted, close minded, and lacking in imagation.

Again no insults intended, just my opinion.

lord xyz
I made a thread, it's the 'christianity and islam are the same' thread.

lil bitchiness
Originally posted by Alliance
Indeed. People have SO many misconceptions about Islam as a religion.

Not that I'm an expert on Islam.

Contact me for all your Islam needs smokin'

Nah, seriously, I have read Al Qur'an and the Hadiths few times - there ARE misconceptions about Islam, but in a very different way than many deem to think.
Sometimes people are too concerned with political corectness that they are too afraid to explore for themselves.

Sam Z
Originally posted by Lord Urizen
I do think so, and I have a right to think so just as you have right to be gay. And I do think so because I believe in what Koran says.

Yes, you do have the right to beleive whatever you beleive. I can never argue with that.

However, that does not make your beleifs TRUE.

On the other hand I also have the right to think that you are wrong, and that the fact that you rely on the Quran for most of your answers makes you limitted, close minded, and lacking in imagation.

Again no insults intended, just my opinion.


True, but you assumption that my believe is not true may also be not true so no point of debating this.
And i'm not close minded because i rely on Koran because i rely on it only because I desided to do so because it is close to my views on everything, and without religion you have no soul and without soul you are just a big peace of meat and bones. And having believes does not makes your imagination limited, actually oposite thing, you don't trust in god, you trust only in what you can tauch and feal so it makes YOUR imagination limited.

Lord Urizen
True, but you assumption that my believe is not true may also be not true so no point of debating this.


Agreed.




And i'm not close minded because i rely on Koran because i rely on it only because I desided to do so because it is close to my views on everything, and without religion you have no soul and without soul you are just a big peace of meat and bones.


That's not true at all. With or without religion we are still very important and JUST as valuable. You don't need religion to have a Soul. If the SOUL actually EXISTS, it exists independent of religion or anything else to say its true.

We are NEVER just meat and bones, we are also cells, thoughts, feelings, emotions, creators, destroyers, dreamers, realists, etc.etc.etc.etc.etc.etc.

God can you blame me for thinking ur views are CLOSED minded if NOT black and white ????







And having believes does not makes your imagination limited

Ofcourse it doesn't bro. I agree with you there. But relying on only ONE SOURCE of information and using that to SUBSTITUTE ALL OTHER TRUTHS (ex: science, logic, reason, other religions, other people's knowledge) is not only a lack of imagination, but purposeful ignorance against anything that does not fit your views.




, actually oposite thing, you don't trust in god, you trust only in what you can tauch and feal so it makes YOUR imagination limited.


I am an Artist, a Graphic Designer in training, and an aspiring cartoonist.

I am open to ALL possibilities....NOT JUST ONE unlike you.

No my freind, my Imagination is SO great it drives me to insanity. Trust me wink

Alliance
Originally posted by Sam Z
True, but you assumption that my believe is not true may also be not true so no point of debating this.

You're assuming that you are true. The vitures of this debate are debatable.


Originally posted by Sam Z
And i'm not close minded because i rely on Koran because i rely on it only because I desided to do so because it is close to my views on everything

by limiting youself to one book, you are limiting yourself.

Originally posted by Sam Z
and without religion you have no soul and without soul you are just a big peace of meat and bones.

No, I'm athiest, there is much more to people than flash and blood. All living things have spirital aspects about them, that doesnt mean that we have to attribute that to a god.

Originally posted by Sam Z
And having believes does not makes your imagination limited, actually oposite thing, you don't trust in god, you trust only in what you can tauch and feal so it makes YOUR imagination limited.

Thats not true. I have "religious" experiences all the time. We use all possible aspects of the world. You limit yourself to ONE interpretation. Our minds are open and clear of oragnized religious dogma.

Its perfectly find that your Muslim and you're entirely welcome to your opinion. However, by subscribing yourself to one organized religion, you ARE limiting your views of the world. All your views are inline with the faith. YOu cant argue otherwise. Im not judging you or your choice, I'm saying that your argument is wrong.

Punker69
Originally posted by black_goku#1
ok i am a christian, or was until my church said that muslims were going to burn in hell for serving the wrong lord and not believing in jesus. i have to disagree because they do believe in the one all powerful god. they were brought up differnt and view it differnt but still praise god. what makes us christians so special or so right as to believe our way of worship is the only right way?

Grow up and become a real Christian. There's certain truths you have to accept if you want to be involved in a certain religion. Getting mad at the church for teaching something in the Bible is ludicrous. Im not saying they're right in speaking harshly against non-believers but thats what your Bible says. You shouldn't be saying whats so great about us and they way we worship. If you where a real Christian and not just part of a religion you would know what is so great about worshipping the only true God. Many religions worship one God but if you where a real Christian you would understand that you worship the only true God and that alone would let you know why you are special and right.

Alliance
Originally posted by Punker69
Grow up and become a real Christian.

Oh this is gonna be good.
<sits and waits>

and Punker, I don't think you could be more wrong.

Lord Urizen
Grow up and become a real Christian.


Like You? That's a terrifying thought. What is a REAL Christian anyway? One who blindly follows the Bible word for word, one who only listens to thier Church, or one who tries to spread TRUE LOVE to everyone else?

You seem to forget God's gift to us all....Free Will



There's certain truths you have to accept if you want to be involved in a certain religion.


Untrue. Tons of Christians disregard much of the Bible. Accepting "certain truths" limits one's view of the world, because your idea of accepting one truth is disregarding ALL OTHER TRUTHS.....



Getting mad at the church for teaching something in the Bible is ludicrous.


If the teaching encourages Death, violence, discrimination or a violation of Free Will.....then no, its perfectly FINE to protest.





You shouldn't be saying whats so great about us and they way we worship.


WHAT IS SO GREAT about you and the way you worship. You conservative Christians LOVE to create limits and bar people from certain freedoms when given the chance. You love telling people how they have to live thier lives.....why dont you USE ur time more properly by fighting poverty, war, drugs and violence in general ?????



If you where a real Christian and not just part of a religion you would know what is so great about worshipping the only true God.



Are not all religious people just part of a religion ? Again, what to you is he definition of a REAL CHRISTIAN ?




Many religions worship one God but if you where a real Christian you would understand that you worship the only true God and that alone would let you know why you are special and right.



Oh Enlighten me wise teenager. Why do so many Christians turn away from their Faith is God would reward them with the knowledge of how much better they are than everyone else ?

Punker69
Originally posted by Lord Urizen
Like You? That's a terrifying thought. What is a REAL Christian anyway? One who blindly follows the Bible word for word, one who only listens to thier Church, or one who tries to spread TRUE LOVE to everyone else?

You seem to forget God's gift to us all....Free Will

No the terrifying thought is that people like this take up the pews of Christian churches and associate themselves with a church where they dont even understand the God they choose to serve.

Originally posted by Lord Urizen
Untrue. Tons of Christians disregard much of the Bible. Accepting "certain truths" limits one's view of the world, because your idea of accepting one truth is disregarding ALL OTHER TRUTHS.....

"all other truths" is your opinion. I mean truths as in things that are printed on the Bible that a Christian chooses to live his life according to. Those are Biblical truths. My form of truth is accepting something I know to be true and right.


Originally posted by Lord Urizen
If the teaching encourages Death, violence, discrimination or a violation of Free Will.....then no, its perfectly FINE to protest.

Only ignorant Bible readers interpret scripture that way. I've only heard these kinds of statements from non-Christians who nit-pick at certain scriptures in the Bible without trying to understand their full meaning or even what the verse is really saying.


Originally posted by Lord Urizen
HAT IS SO GREAT about you and the way you worship. You conservative Christians LOVE to create limits and bar people from certain freedoms when given the chance. You love telling people how they have to live thier lives.....why dont you USE ur time more properly by fighting poverty, war, drugs and violence in general ?????

War, poverty, drugs, and violence are all incorporated into scripture. You've never been to my church and you've never heard my pastor preach and you never heard my views on certain things. So dont start sterotyping again.


Originally posted by Lord Urizen
Are not all religious people just part of a religion ? Again, what to you is he definition of a REAL CHRISTIAN ?

No, we aren't just part of a religion. Religion is boring and traditional. We believe and have faith in the one God of the universe.

A real Christian is one who basis his life on the word of God.

Originally posted by Lord Urizen
Oh Enlighten me wise teenager. Why do so many Christians turn away from their Faith is God would reward them with the knowledge of how much better they are than everyone else ?

Lol, your constant derrogatives of my age are just showing your maturity and inability to have a conversation with someone without lingering on some sort of cheap shot.

They never had it for themselves. They never got their belief and passion for God for themselves. They lived off of their peers and leaders convictions and walk with God and never received it for themselves. That my friend is why so many people backslide.

They dont seek after that knowledge.

Nellinator
"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God." - John 1:1

Therefore, rejecting the Bible or the Word is rejecting God for they are the same. This is a basic principle of true Christianity. The Bible does not teach to condemn others, no matter their religion, but rather to sway the minds of the deceived towards the truth of salvation.

"And the Lord's servant must not quarrel; instead, he must be kind to everyone, able to teach, not resentful. Those who oppose him he must gently instruct, in the hope that God will grant them repentance leading them to the knowledge of the truth, and that they will come to their senses and escape from the trap of the devil, who has taken them captive to do his will." - 2 Timothy 2:24-26

The inability of many Christians to meet these requirements is the reason so many people forsake Christ and his teachings, they have not been led into true faith which is a Christian's greatest defense against Satan as witnessed in the Armour of God.

Philip_ll
Anyone in this form is capable of taking any "scripture" they choose, out of the bible, and applying any "meaning" they want or can concoct, to it. It's very simple.

Philip_ll
Originally posted by Philip_ll
Anyone in this form is capable of taking any "scripture" they choose, out of the bible, and applying any "meaning" they want or can concoct, to it. It's very simple.

Please excuse my drunken spelling.

DE Luke
Well for one,they oppress their women(okay,last time I checked,God didn't allow slavery,which what they're doing litterally is,women should be allowed to have rights too),kill people if they don't believe in their religion,kill people(innocent,of course).Now last time I checked,all that shit was said by God to be wrong.I;m not saying that all of them are bad,but a lot of them are.They kill each other over Religion alone.

debbiejo
That's how denominations are form..........

Sam Z
Agreed.

Good smile


Originally posted by Lord Urizen

That's not true at all. With or without religion we are still very important and JUST as valuable. You don't need religion to have a Soul. If the SOUL actually EXISTS, it exists independent of religion or anything else to say its true.

Actually you DO need religion to have soul since there weren't even such word before religion appeared. You can't believe in soul but not believe in God. Soul is not independent of religion but a part of it.
Soul originally was something God lets you have

Originally posted by Lord Urizen
We are NEVER just meat and bones, we are also cells, thoughts, feelings, emotions, creators, destroyers, dreamers, realists, etc.etc.etc.etc.etc.etc.

Of what would you be proud more? To say I have a "kind soul" or "a lot of cells"? stick out tongue

Originally posted by Lord Urizen
God can you blame me for thinking ur views are CLOSED minded if NOT black and white ????
.
I think I'll live this without comments...


Originally posted by Lord Urizen
Ofcourse it doesn't bro. I agree with you there. But relying on only ONE SOURCE of information and using that to SUBSTITUTE ALL OTHER TRUTHS (ex: science, logic, reason, other religions, other people's knowledge) is not only a lack of imagination, but purposeful ignorance against anything that does not fit your views.

No hold a sec, I think I didn't expressed my self clearly. I go by Koran only when it comes TO religion, ofcourse I willn't rely on it if I had some scintific questions do deside. You asked me a certain question. If I do think that being gay is a sin. This question is related only to religion. No other scintific source of information can tell you for what you will go to hell and for what you wont. You asked questiom that only my religional views could give answer too, so I answered going by the religion.



Originally posted by Lord Urizen
I am an Artist, a Graphic Designer in training, and an aspiring cartoonist.

I am open to ALL possibilities....NOT JUST ONE unlike you.

No my freind, my Imagination is SO great it drives me to insanity. Trust me wink

Being a believer is one of the million possibilities, I by the way used to study art too for sometime. So my imagination goes to the same point as yours and even further because of the religion. cool

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