Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.

No Prep Time. Fight on the moon. Who Wins?

Supes so easily its a joke

Superman kills them all if he wants to...but he's to nice of a guy so he'll make the fight longer than it has to.

Pre-Crisis Supes was a dick. Supes wins.

Pre-Crisis Supes still has the kryptonite weakness.

One instance where Surfer would have to resort to fighting dirty to pull off a narrow victory. Only way of winning is emitting high intensity k-waves and continuously moving.

Anything less amounts to a silver corpse floating in space.

Supes used to oscillate through time to avoid attacks like that phasing in and out Pre crisis is the bomb. Only way to catch him when well written was off guard

Supes would win this one quite easily.

illadelph12 has got a point.

8 times out of 10 for Pre-Crisis Supes. Those other 2 times Supes messes up and gets fried by kryptonite energy frequencies.

Yo - Illadelph! For once I agree with one of your posts lol!

Yeah - PC has the power to knock Surfer's socks off.

But KNite can still do the job, if the Surfer has the chance to pull it off.

Again, like a lot of fights, it depends on whether Supes has his thinking cap on.

If he doesn't and he stands there, then he's gonna be suffering.

Zeph if Supes is written well he wins, if not he loses

lol - too true.

But since when was PC well written?

Nah - if he used all of his powers, he physically couldn't lose any fight.

How do you fight someone you can't touch, can't harm, can travel through time and move many thousands of times faster than light lol?

Originally posted by ZephroCarnelian


How do you fight someone you can't touch, can't harm, can travel through time and move many thousands of times faster than light lol? Cosmic Cube says that Surfer can move a milllion times the speed of light.

Originally posted by ZephroCarnelian
lol - too true.

But since when was PC well written?

Nah - if he used all of his powers, he physically couldn't lose any fight.

How do you fight someone you can't touch, can't harm, can travel through time and move many thousands of times faster than light lol?

Seriously Zeph to read a good pre crisi story hunt this up as a starting point

http://www.hillcity-comics.com/graphic_novels/new_graphic_novel1118.htm

its superb there were lots of others as well but this is a good starting point.

lol...yeah, i see ya. The majority on this thread have voted for pre-crisis supes'...given that he doesn't give SS the chance to use the kryptonite energy frequencies

It's entirely possible for Supes to pull of a win here, but I don't see him taking the majoritybarring PIS. I know that PC Supes had virtually every power in existence at one point in time, but Surfer's not really outclassed in that respect because his power cosmic has the ability to simulate just aboutany power(and has at one point in time or another. Aside from that Surfer has the ability to simulate BOTH of PC Supermans weaknesses. I would give it to Supes 10/10 if it happend in a comic, but using the forum rules I would only give him 3 or 4 out of 10.

Originally posted by darthgoober
It's entirely possible for Supes to pull of a win here, but I don't see him taking the majoritybarring PIS. I know that PC Supes had virtually every power in existence at one point in time, but Surfer's not really outclassed in that respect because his power cosmic has the ability to simulate just aboutany power(and has at one point in time or another. Aside from that Surfer has the ability to simulate BOTH of PC Supermans weaknesses. I would give it to Supes 10/10 if it happend in a comic, but using the forum rules I would only give him 3 or 4 out of 10.

Nah. Pre-C Superman was just all around more uber than Surfer. He'd make Norrin wish he never became SS.

I dont consider anything pre-crisis "well written". Supes loses for the same reasons as if it were regular Superman, hes still just as weak against K-nite and red sun radiation.

I agree that he would beat Supes if he can hit him with that energy...that is the key point. If Supes' has his game face on...then, SS would be hard pressed to hit him with anything. He could hit current Supes' with little problems....but, i just don't see him hitting pre-crisis supes' without a lot of luck. It's been said that pre-crisis could juggle planets or sneeze galaxies away...that's really far more than a highfather on earth could pull off in today's comics. I'm sure Supes' could throw planet sized asteroids at SS at faster than light speeds...and surfer would have to dodge all of that. Surfer would be lucky to have enough time to simulate those blasts and aim them directly at superman. As fast as Supes is...he could literally appear out of know where and punch surfer off of his board.

After thinking about it some more...i think Surfer would take a majority against post-crisis supes'...i don't think he would take all of them. Against pre-crisis....only luck would allow SS to win, imo....pre-crisis was just too overpowered

Originally posted by charlemagne9746
lol...yeah, i see ya. The majority on this thread have voted for pre-crisis supes'...given that he doesn't give SS the chance to use the kryptonite energy frequencies

Assuming that Supes is actually faster than Surfer(and I for one would consider that a stretch), I seriously doubt that the difference would be so drastic that Surfer couldn't handle it. Remember when you and I started, we were talking PC Supes and CURRENT Surfer(who has been upgraded). Surfer would have no problem responding to Supes attacks, all the while blasting away with red sunlight out of his eye's, And as bad as he was, there's no way that Supes can punch away on Surfer, and manage to dodge Surfer's red sun eyebeams from point blank.

Originally posted by charlemagne9746
I agree that he would beat Supes if he can hit him with that energy...that is the key point. If Supes' has his game face on...then, SS would be hard pressed to hit him with anything. He could hit current Supes' with little problems....but, i just don't see him hitting pre-crisis supes' without a lot of luck. It's been said that pre-crisis could juggle planets or sneeze galaxies away...that's really far more than a highfather on earth could pull off in today's comics. I'm sure Supes' could throw planet sized asteroids at SS at faster than light speeds...and surfer would have to dodge all of that. Surfer would be lucky to have enough time to simulate those blasts and aim them directly at superman. As fast as Supes is...he could literally appear out of know where and punch surfer off of his board.

After thinking about it some more...i think Surfer would take a majority against post-crisis supes'...i don't think he would take all of them. Against pre-crisis....only luck would allow SS to win, imo....pre-crisis was just too overpowered

Wait, since when does Surfer have to dodge a planet. Surfer has more than enough power in his cosmic blast to destroy just about any planet Supes throws at him.
Also I think we should be talking about the standard showings for each of these guys, because otherwise I'll have to resort to bring up Supes having problems with guys like Toy Man(I mean come on).

i agree with that...he couldn't avoid them if he was just punching away on Silver Surfer. However, according to the forum rules...Supes' would know that SS was capable of shooting those beams out of his eyes....so, he would pick his shots. With Supes' flying around through space...SS isn't gonna just hit him with that unless he's lucky. Supes' would need to separate SS from his board first...i would think. If Superman is strong enough to blow out a star...or sneeze a galaxy away....could SS stay on his board when Supes' just uses his super lungs and blows in Surfer's direction. I mean..the way Supes' pre crisis feats are written....i don't see SS staying on that board. Pre-Crisis supes is probably strong enough to break the board in half if he just grabs it with surfer off of it.

Another thing....how many red sun blasts would it take to really defeat superman...i imagine it would take more than one....especially since this fight is on the moon....and Supes is still absorbing energy from the yellow sun

Originally posted by charlemagne9746

Another thing....how many red sun blasts would it take to really defeat superman...i imagine it would take more than one....especially since this fight is on the moon....and Supes is still absorbing energy from the yellow sun

If they are in space, its one shot, and he loses all his powers. He then dies of the cold and lack of air.

Originally posted by Tassadar
If they are in space, its one shot, and he loses all his powers. He then dies of the cold and lack of air.

That wouldn't work considering Pre-C Superman could actually SPEEDBLITZ at trillions upon trillions of miles per second, while Surfer could only travel fast, but not even that fast. Not to mention "sneezing away solar systems," throwing a neutron star billions of lightyears away, "time altering" punches, etc.... Need I go on?

lol...no, let's don't do that...i'll have to bring out Superman Prime who doesn't have red sun or kryptonite weaknesses. If it was that easy to kill Supes'....then someone would've tried to take him out like that already...but, DC couldn't build a franchise player with someone taking out Supes' that way either...lol. Well, Supes' would just have to dodge them...and pre-crisis can do that. It all comes down to Surfer staying on that board....if SS can't hit supes' or if Supes' can't separate SS from that board...then...it's just a long stalemate.

Originally posted by charlemagne9746
lol...no, let's don't do that...i'll have to bring out Superman Prime who doesn't have red sun or kryptonite weaknesses. If it was that easy to kill Supes'....then someone would've tried to take him out like that already...but, DC couldn't build a franchise player with someone taking out Supes' that way either...lol. Well, Supes' would just have to dodge them...and pre-crisis can do that. It all comes down to Surfer staying on that board....if SS can't hit supes' or if Supes' can't separate SS from that board...then...it's just a long stalemate.

No. Pre-C Superman would literally take Surfer off the board before he knew what hit him.

as much as it pains me though...SS can beat Supes' if he tags him with that red sun eyebeam...but, i think that would be the only way SS could beat pre-crisis supes'

Originally posted by charlemagne9746
as much as it pains me though...SS can beat Supes' if he tags him with that red sun eyebeam...but, i think that would be the only way SS could beat pre-crisis supes'

Yeah, and Pre-C Superman could also completely make a mockery of Surfer in a variety of different ways. What's your point? Seriously, Pre-C Superman was like a looney tunes character.

PC supermans greatest power was his jobber aura. He developed new powers... or became stronger.. just to beat you... no matter who you were.. IE... bashing down the gates of heaven.

yeah...that's what I say...pre-crisis Supes' was way way overpowered. If he didn't have the kryptonite or red sun weaknesses....or magic weakness for that matter.....what could beat him...besides Darkseid..lol

Originally posted by charlemagne9746
lol...no, let's don't do that...i'll have to bring out Superman Prime who doesn't have red sun or kryptonite weaknesses. If it was that easy to kill Supes'....then someone would've tried to take him out like that already...but, DC couldn't build a franchise player with someone taking out Supes' that way either...lol. Well, Supes' would just have to dodge them...and pre-crisis can do that. It all comes down to Surfer staying on that board....if SS can't hit supes' or if Supes' can't separate SS from that board...then...it's just a long stalemate.

Superman Prime beats Surfer hands down(but that's not who we'er talking about).
But anyway, if Supes manages to destroy the board(which I will admit he was strong enough to do), Surfer can create another one no problem(he did it before). And even if Supes is faster, if he tries to play tag with Surfer by punching and running away, Surfer's reflexes are fast enough to respond to things moving at waaayyy faster than light speed. Also tag is a two way street, to my knowlegde Supes never utilized hyperspace while Surfer does. He could do a sudden jump to warp speed and end up light years away, then do another warp, blasting away(at this point I figure Supes is hanging out with a confused look on his face trying to figure out where Surfer went.

By the way, I didn't really get what you were saying,are we useing average showings, or is it no holds barred?

Originally posted by darthgoober
Superman Prime beats Surfer hands down(but that's not who we'er talking about).
But anyway, if Supes manages to destroy the board(which I will admit he was strong enough to do), Surfer can create another one no problem(he did it before). And even if Supes is faster, if he tries to play tag with Surfer by punching and running away, Surfer's reflexes are fast enough to respond to things moving at waaayyy faster than light speed. Also tag is a two way street, to my knowlegde Supes never utilized hyperspace while Surfer does. He could do a sudden jump to warp speed and end up light years away, then do another warp, blasting away(at this point I figure Supes is hanging out with a confused look on his face trying to figure out where Surfer went.

By the way, I didn't really get what you were saying,are we useing average showings, or is it no holds barred?

If Superman destroys Surfer's board, it's basically all over for him. Superman isn't going to give the Surfer one IOTA of time in order for him to properly create another one. To assume so is just silly. Superman IS greatly faster, and ONE of his punches would seriously be enough for Norin to die or be in a coma. Surfer's speed reflexes are nowhere near what Superman can put out. Just ask Thanos about that one. Never utilizes hyperspace? Actually, he can put on a "speed blur" and go just as fast as he needs. Besides, why exactly is that even relevant to this fight? Is that so Surfer can ATTEMPT to run away with Superman right on his ass and then tags him? If Surfer tries the old "OH NO!!! I'M RUNNING AWAY!!" trick, then Superman would just meet him where ever he ended up and clobber him. Surfer is toast anyway you want to look at it.

Oh and if you take Surfer's high showings, multiply it by 5 and you get Pre-C Superman's high showing feats.

Originally posted by darthgoober
Superman Prime beats Surfer hands down(but that's not who we'er talking about).
But anyway, if Supes manages to destroy the board(which I will admit he was strong enough to do), Surfer can create another one no problem(he did it before). And even if Supes is faster, if he tries to play tag with Surfer by punching and running away, Surfer's reflexes are fast enough to respond to things moving at waaayyy faster than light speed. Also tag is a two way street, to my knowlegde Supes never utilized hyperspace while Surfer does. He could do a sudden jump to warp speed and end up light years away, then do another warp, blasting away(at this point I figure Supes is hanging out with a confused look on his face trying to figure out where Surfer went.

By the way, I didn't really get what you were saying,are we useing average showings, or is it no holds barred?


If it is average showing...neither one will kill the other...so, I don't think SS would risk using red sunlight against Supes'...knowing that would kill him in space....and Supes' wouldn't go for the kill either...if he separated SS from the board...Supes' is strong enough to actually rip the surfer in half...so, Supes' wouldn't kill him.

I think they would have to go all out to get a winner...if they didn't...no one would get knocked out in my opinion.....well, Pre-Crisis has a better chance for the KO win with a single punch

Let's have them go all out in this fight....winner takes all

Superman wrecks him the majority of times. I would say 7 or 8/10.

Originally posted by Sir Whirlysplat
Zeph if Supes is written well he wins, if not he loses
Well written PC Supes??? Thats an oxymoron

Originally posted by ZephroCarnelian
lol - too true.

But since when was PC well written?

Nah - if he used all of his powers, he physically couldn't lose any fight.

How do you fight someone you can't touch, can't harm, can travel through time and move many thousands of times faster than light lol? You do realize most of that can be used for Silver Surfer as well right.

I mean PC Supes was a beast only because he needed to be in some cases but most of his powers and in fact all of his powers could be duplicated by SS no problem. SS has traveled unbelievably fast before.

SS has instant usage of his biggest weaknesses.

Everyone wants to talk abouta well written PC Supes but a well written Surfer is not exactly a wimp who is sitting there.

In comics obviously it would be PC Supes he would all of a sudden use his anti-power cosmic heat vision to remove Morrin of all his power.

By forums rules though it is just hard in my opinion to give it to him though. I don't see SS falling fast while all he has to do is create an aura of K-nite or red sun radiation around him and the fight pretty much becomes a ones sided match in favor of SS.

Supes absolutely dwarfs SS in speed, moving trillions of times the speed of light in less then a second, traveling from universe to universe in less them a micro second? Complete control of time?

PC supes 10/10

Originally posted by Jesse7
Supes absolutely dwarfs SS in speed, moving trillions of times the speed of light in less then a second, traveling from universe to universe in less them a micro second? Complete control of time?

PC supes 10/10 I know but SS has some insane speed feats as well to his credit.
He has also demonstrated the ability to effect time. Like I said for all his powers PC produced SS has or could just as easily reproduce them.

Its hard to to over look the fact that SS is a speed demon in his own right and has readily access to PC Supes biggest weaknesses at his finger tips.

Its just my thinking but those are hard circumstances for anyone to really overcome.

Originally posted by newjak86
By forums rules though it is just hard in my opinion to give it to him though. I don't see SS falling fast while all he has to do is create an aura of K-nite or red sun radiation around him and the fight pretty much becomes a ones sided match in favor of SS.
Maybe but if Superman sneezes its game over for everyones favorite herald.

Originally posted by Validus
Maybe but if Superman sneezes its game over for everyones favorite herald. I forgot about the sneeze of death

That and his punches alter the space time contium, as well as alternate realities, one punch to SS head and its game over for SS in the past, present, and future.

lol, Just to much for SS to handle. Out of 10 fights Supes beat him 30x from present, past, future.

lol...yeah...the sneeze of death is ludicrous.....but, hey...Supes' may have some black pepper on his person somewhere....all he needs to do is inhale it....and SS is gonna be like a moth during Hurricane Katrina...lol. Supes' can also borrow Batman's anti SS spray.

In all seriousness though, both of these guys are insanely powerful. Excluding pre-crisis Supes' weaknesses....he is far more powerful than SS. SS can beat Supes' if he connects with a red sun energy blast....i don't think the K-blast would work....SS probably wouldn't know how to reproduce it...being that it is foreign to the marvel universe. I think Supes' has a good shot at blitzing SS and getting the KO before the fight really even starts.

If SS manages to start shooting red sun beams at Supes' first...then Supes' has an uphill battle. Supes' can dodge those blasts all day long. If anything, maybe he can lure SS to fight inside the sun...that would amp Supes' strength up quickly.

I'm sorry, but I have a hard time picturing Sufer getting speed blitzed by anybody. Mostly because to my knowledge it's never happened(even before his recent upgrade). If anyone has scans of him actually being on the recieving end of an actual speed blitz, I'll accept the possibility. That's not saying that he's faster, just that his reflexes are good enough to deal with it. Thanos can't fly at all to my knowledge, he is certainly not a perceived as a speedster, but how many times can you name that he has suffered from a blitz? Doesn't he normally blast whoevers trying before they get to him? Why should we assume that this would be any different when the Surfers speed is so much higher than Thanos's.
I will admit that the sneeze of death could pose a problem, but since(to my knowledge)it only happened once I don't think it counts as a viable option by forum rules.
Newjack just made me think of something, Surfer doesen't have to hit Supes with a blast of red sun energy, all he has to do is cause his body to emmit it(which shouldn't be a problem to glow with energy on numerous occasions) and if Supes comes anywhere near him he'll be exposed to the effects.
He could also drain the solar radiation that Supes already has stored in his system which would probably weaken him faster than the red sunlight.

There's always a first time. Silver Surfer will be glad it was PC Supes who popped his cherry.

Originally posted by Superboy Prime
There's always a first time. Silver Surfer will be glad it was PC Supes who took his cherry.
Clark is pretty gentle according to Lois.

lol...... Ahem... guys back on topic..

The only way for surfer(or anyone for that matter) to win against PC Superman is for the writter to drop dead from a heart attack n' such.
So ridiculous powers and plot devices couldnt be added to the fight(s).

Originally posted by Inhuman
The only way for surfer(or anyone for that matter) to win against PC Superman is for the writter to drop dead from a heart attack n' such.
So ridiculous powers and plot devices couldnt be added to the fight(s).

Very true. But luckily, there are no writers controlling this fight, because it's not in a comic.

Yeah to bad for SS that forum rules states that both characters are fighting at their best, meaning their is no writter to give PC supes any weakenesses.

In case you forgot, PC supes was only weak to magic, kryptonite, etc. when they wanted him to be, for example, out of no where a krytonite pebble hits him and hes on the floor dying, next panel hes on a planet made of kryptonite beating down legions, etc.

So in this case PC supes has no weaknesses, unlimted powers, Anti Cosmic Heat vision, and PC supes would run light years around SS. (Pc Supes gained any power he wanted or needed on the fly, call it PIS if you want but its cannon and its one of his powers.)

Example 1: PC supes has traveled Trillions of times the speed of light in under a fraction of a second.

Example 2: PC super boy raced across many universes in a fraction of a universe.

The point: SS is a snail compared to PC supes.

Originally posted by Jesse7
Yeah to bad for SS that forum rules states that both characters are fighting at their best, meaning their is no writter to give PC supes any weakenesses.

In case you forgot, PC supes was only weak to magic, kryptonite, etc. when they wanted him to be, for example, out of no where a krytonite pebble hits him and hes on the floor dying, next panel hes on a planet made of kryptonite beating down legions, etc.

So in this case PC supes has no weaknesses, unlimted powers, Anti Cosmic Heat vision, and PC supes would run light years around SS. (Pc Supes gained any power he wanted or needed on the fly, call it PIS if you want but its cannon and its one of his powers.)

Example 1: PC supes has traveled Trillions of times the speed of light in under a fraction of a second.

Example 2: PC super boy raced across many universes in a fraction of a universe.

The point: SS is a snail compared to PC supes.
Hey, Spiderman and Firelord is cannon. Just because something is cannon doesn't mean that it's admissible under forum rules. Cannon or not, PIS is not applicable. And most of that crap is either PIS or covered with SvFL(both of which are also stated in forum rules as not applicable). I said before that in a comic Supes would win 10/10, but this isn't a comic. The Superman that you just described wouldn't lose to ANYBODY, including a properly written Darkseid, or Galactus for that matter. That's just stupid. And if we are going to allow PIS, that would including his having a hard time with guys like Toyman. So if that's the case, I say that Surfer would win by creating a giant toy robot to distract Supes, while the Surfer uses his power cosmic to alter Superman's DNA into that of a normal human, which gives Surfer the win.

LOL its PIS when its a one or two time thing, such as the SvFL it was a one time thing.

Your basically calling PC supes entire comic history from the first to the last issue PIS, thats like me calling SS entire comic history PIS because I don't like it, or because it doesnt match with what my opinion is of non PIS, CIS.

Point being everything I mentioned PC supes did on a regular basis, making powers up on the fly, having no weaknesses, speed, strength, his punches and intelligence breaking time, space, reality, it was all done on a regular basis by him.

Bottom line PC supes>SS 10/10 ^_^

pc supes was the most pis bs stupid trash verson of supes ever he would throw planets one day then get beat down my a giant monkey the next dc is so much better now that they did away with that verson of supes.

Originally posted by Jesse7
LOL its PIS when its a one or two time thing, such as the SvFL it was a one time thing.

Your basically calling PC supes entire comic history from the first to the last issue PIS, thats like me calling SS entire comic history PIS because I don't like it, or because it doesnt match with what my opinion is of non PIS, CIS.

Point being everything I mentioned PC supes did on a regular basis, making powers up on the fly, having no weaknesses, speed, strength, his punches and intelligence breaking time, space, reality, it was all done on a regular basis by him.

Bottom line PC supes>SS 10/10 ^_^ You don't count pr beyonder!

YOU PEOPLE TALK LIKE PC WAS GOD PC OR LETS SAY WELL WRITTEN DARKSEID BEAT HIM ALL THE TIME. PC MONGUL USED TO BEAT HIM TO PLUS PC MONGUL WAS WAY WAY STRONGER THEN PC SUPES . I DON'T THINK PC SUPES EVER BEAT PC MONGUL ONE ON ONE EVER TIME HE WOULD HAVE TO RUN FROM PC MONGUL. PLEASE PEOPLE KNOW WHAT YOUR TALKING ABOUT BEFOR YOU SAY TINGS LIKE PC SUPES CAN'T BE BEAT

Originally posted by bigbran
You don't count pr beyonder!

WAHHHHHHHHHHH???? I don't count PR beyond? Thats not true, I do count PR beyonder.

It was stated by the writter at that time, but PR beyonder was basically the representation of the writters themselves that they controlled all that was in Marvel and that no comic character could oppose them.

I happen to like Pre-Retcon Beyonder, I often read Mr. M's post and arguments on him and agree with them too.

Originally posted by Jesse7
WAHHHHHHHHHHH???? I don't count PR beyond? Thats not true, I do count PR beyonder.

It was stated by the writter at that time, but PR beyonder was basically the representation of the writters themselves that they controlled all that was in Marvel and that no comic character could oppose them.

I happen to like Pre-Retcon Beyonder, I often read Mr. M's post and arguments on him and agree with them too. Yes but you usually say, there was no such thing as pre ret conned beyonder.

kryptonite blast it is really that simple. Silver Surfer 10/10

Originally posted by bigbran
Yes but you usually say, there was no such thing as pre ret conned beyonder.

WHAT? When!? I like the pre-retconned beyonder, are you talking about that one post from the "Beyonders Vs the Imps?" all I basically said was that post-retcon beyonder is not what he use to be (pre-retconned) -_-

Originally posted by Jesse7
LOL its PIS when its a one or two time thing, such as the SvFL it was a one time thing.

Your basically calling PC supes entire comic history from the first to the last issue PIS, thats like me calling SS entire comic history PIS because I don't like it, or because it doesnt match with what my opinion is of non PIS, CIS.

Point being everything I mentioned PC supes did on a regular basis, making powers up on the fly, having no weaknesses, speed, strength, his punches and intelligence breaking time, space, reality, it was all done on a regular basis by him..

Bottom line PC supes>SS 10/10 ^_^

PIS can happen any number of times under any number of writers because it's PLOT INDUCED STUPIDITY. It happens in almost every issue of Flash, when Flash doesn't beat the villain in the first panel. If PIS is on, then Supes doesn't have a chance because he was a victim of it more than just about anyone else. If we're using PIS then Superman WON'T be using his speed or strength at maximum efficiency and Surfers. Why? For the sake of the plot, and to make the fight look good. SvFL is what your talking about, and while Superman did develope powers on the fly all the time, unless he used each individual power multiple times, it qualifies. It has nothing to do with my liking it or not that's forum rules. So as I said earlier- Surfer 6/10.

Originally posted by Jesse7
WHAT? When!? I like the pre-retconned beyonder, are you talking about that one post from the "Beyonders Vs the Imps?" all I basically said was that post-retcon beyonder is not what he use to be (pre-retconned) -_- You said post ret con beyonder was the cannon one.

Originally posted by darthgoober
PIS can happen any number of times under any number of writers because it's PLOT INDUCED STUPIDITY. It happens in almost every issue of Flash, when Flash doesn't beat the villain in the first panel. If PIS is on, then Supes doesn't have a chance because he was a victim of it more than just about anyone else. If we're using PIS then Superman WON'T be using his speed or strength at maximum efficiency and Surfers. Why? For the sake of the plot, and to make the fight look good. SvFL is what your talking about, and while Superman did develope powers on the fly all the time, unless he used each individual power multiple times, it qualifies. It has nothing to do with my liking it or not that's forum rules. So as I said earlier- Surfer 6/10.

Actually forum rules states both characters fighting at their best, and SUpes at his best is what you call PIS supes, like it or not it wasnt PIS, and calling Flash PIS? Now you just sound like your biased against DC, face it PC Supes outclasses SS in every category.

PC Supes 10/10 FTW

Unless of course you want to start using scans and on panel feats, because Supes would completely stomp surfer in every category, speed, strength, power, etc.

If so start posting and we'll go by scans, then again you might just complain and call it all PIS.

Originally posted by bigbran
You said post ret con beyonder was the cannon one.

Well Post-Retcon Beyonder is the cannon version of him, all of his pre-retconned feats and showings were retconned and said to have all been illusions created by himself.

It doesn't mean I don't like Pre-retcon beyonder though.

Originally posted by Jesse7
Actually forum rules states both characters fighting at their best, and SUpes at his best is what you call PIS supes, like it or not it wasnt PIS, and calling Flash PIS? Now you just sound like your biased against DC, face it PC Supes outclasses SS in every category.

PC Supes 10/10 FTW

Unless of course you want to start using scans and on panel feats, because Supes would completely stomp surfer in every category, speed, strength, power, etc.

If so start posting and we'll go by scans, then again you might just complain and call it all PIS.

OK, I think you misunderstood about what I said about Flash. I'm not calling of Flash's abilities PIS. The PIS I was referring to was that even though the Flash could justifiably take out most of his villain in the first panel via 1000 light speed punches, he doesn't. The reason that he doesn't is because they wouldn't sell many comics if he did that. To my knowledge, everyone on the forum agrees with that. It wasn't a knock against the Flash, it's the truth. Everyone is confusing PIS with SvFL. PIS is when the character is shown BELOW their abilities to make the fight closer than it should be. SvFL is when the character does something that is either BEYOND their standard capabilities or is only seen once or is only used once or twice. Having the books hero be the victim of PIS is actually a compliment, because the hero could and SHOULD have done better, their abilities just weren't used to the fullest by the writers. I have no problem with the feats of strength and speed that PC Supes did consistently, no matter how outrageous they are. It's things like his sneezing and destroying a galaxy(which to my knowledge only happened once), or the powers he developed on the fly and never used again, which should be thrown out by the forum rules. And I only used Flash as an example because he is probably the second biggest VICTIM of PIS behind Superman, I have nothing against DC.

Originally posted by darthgoober
OK, I think you misunderstood about what I said about Flash. I'm not calling of Flash's abilities PIS. The PIS I was referring to was that even though the Flash could justifiably take out most of his villain in the first panel via 1000 light speed punches, he doesn't. The reason that he doesn't is because they wouldn't sell many comics if he did that. To my knowledge, everyone on the forum agrees with that. It wasn't a knock against the Flash, it's the truth. Everyone is confusing PIS with SvFL. PIS is when the character is shown BELOW their abilities to make the fight closer than it should be. SvFL is when the character does something that is either BEYOND their standard capabilities or is only seen once or is only used once or twice. Having the books hero be the victim of PIS is actually a compliment, because the hero could and SHOULD have done better, their abilities just weren't used to the fullest by the writers. I have no problem with the feats of strength and speed that PC Supes did consistently, no matter how outrageous they are. It's things like his sneezing and destroying a galaxy(which to my knowledge only happened once), or the powers he developed on the fly and never used again, which should be thrown out by the forum rules. And I only used Flash as an example because he is probably the second biggest VICTIM of PIS behind Superman, I have nothing against DC.

Basically what you just said has killed your own argument against Superman, you said that Flash can hit a person 1000 times in the first panel and beat any of his enemies, but they wouldnt do that because it wouldnt sell any comics right?

Regardless of that Flash can still do that and has before, so its within his power set, on these forums characters use their abilities to their fullest (thats why its a debate).

If you want to count all of that as PIS and take it out, then Surfer cant speed blitz anyone because if he could speed blitz some one in the first panel it wouldnt sell books! If surfer could immediately just radiate the radiation or energy his enemies are weak to then it wouldnt sell books, thus surfer cant do it! (sarcasm)

See what Im saying here? Sure you can complain about anyone you want I don't care, but what you need to understand is that just because you dont like some thing or because you call it PIS doesnt mean its not going to be used in a debate.

Supes 10/10

Originally posted by Jesse7
Basically what you just said has killed your own argument against Superman, you said that Flash can hit a person 1000 times in the first panel and beat any of his enemies, but they wouldnt do that because it wouldnt sell any comics right?

Regardless of that Flash can still do that and has before, so its within his power set, on these forums characters use their abilities to their fullest (thats why its a debate).

If you want to count all of that as PIS and take it out, then Surfer cant speed blitz anyone because if he could speed blitz some one in the first panel it wouldnt sell books! If surfer could immediately just radiate the radiation or energy his enemies are weak to then it wouldnt sell books, thus surfer cant do it! (sarcasm)

See what Im saying here? Sure you can complain about anyone you want I don't care, but what you need to understand is that just because you dont like some thing or because you call it PIS doesnt mean its not going to be used in a debate.

Supes 10/10 Actually when someone has a weakness, surfer exploits it. he has threatened Gladiator that, he could take him out in a flash because he knows how resistent, and what glads is weak to.

Originally posted by bigbran
Actually when someone has a weakness, surfer exploits it. he has threatened Gladiator that, he could take him out in a flash because he knows how resistent, and what glads is weak to.

And Supes has punched people through time and sealed them off in another Universe/Dimension by rubbing his hands together or by vibrating his molecules. <--BFR is a counted as a win on these forums

Supes has altered the future with his punches, supes has traveled trillions of times the speed of light in under a fraction of a second (this exact number was stated in narration).

^SS has never traveled anywhere near that fast, the fastest SS has traveled was 300x the speed of light.

Originally posted by Jesse7
And Supes has punched people through time and sealed them off in another Universe/Dimension by rubbing his hands together or by vibrating his molecules. <--BFR is a counted as a win on these forums

Supes has altered the future with his punches, supes has traveled trillions of times the speed of light in under a fraction of a second (this exact number was stated in narration).

^SS has never traveled anywhere near that fast, the fastest SS has traveled was 300x the speed of light. No surfer has traveled way faster than that. Half a million light years, in less than a minute. or something along those lines.

Yeah uh huh, show me the scan that says it was exactly half a million light years in LESS then a minute, because the example of Supes traveling at 300 trillion times the speed of light is the exact narration.

Originally posted by Jesse7
Yeah uh huh, show me the scan that says it was exactly half a million light years in LESS then a minute, because the example of Supes traveling at 300 trillion times the speed of light is the exact narration. Ive tried to show you the scan before, and you said you couldn't read it.
But anyways, might as well try.
Surfer needed to hurry, and he needs to get there fast, so...

He travels, pretty damn fast, it's only known that he travels that far, and we know he does it very fast, it would probabaly be between seconds, to maybe a minute.

I see that it says half a million light years, but no where does it say how long it took, for all we know it could have taken minutes or an hour.

i have never stated that ss is faster, nor have i stated, that ss will win, I am however going to defend him against your statements.
and pleasent dreams.

Originally posted by Jesse7
I see that it says half a million light years, but no where does it say how long it took, for all we know it could have taken minutes or an hour. No he did it fast, he needed to get there, and he knew something had started, so unless it ended really long, he would have got there in hours.
even genis was telling him to slow down.

I am sorry if I have seemed rude to you Bigbran, you have been nothing but polite to me, so I do appologize to you for my rude behavior.

Originally posted by Jesse7
Basically what you just said has killed your own argument against Superman, you said that Flash can hit a person 1000 times in the first panel and beat any of his enemies, but they wouldnt do that because it wouldnt sell any comics right?

Regardless of that Flash can still do that and has before, so its within his power set, on these forums characters use their abilities to their fullest (thats why its a debate).

If you want to count all of that as PIS and take it out, then Surfer cant speed blitz anyone because if he could speed blitz some one in the first panel it wouldnt sell books! If surfer could immediately just radiate the radiation or energy his enemies are weak to then it wouldnt sell books, thus surfer cant do it! (sarcasm)

See what Im saying here? Sure you can complain about anyone you want I don't care, but what you need to understand is that just because you dont like some thing or because you call it PIS doesnt mean its not going to be used in a debate.

Supes 10/10
NO, NO, NO! What don't you get about what I'm saying! I THINK IT'S PERFECTLY REASONABLE FOR THE FLASH OR SUPERMAN OR ANYONE ELSE WITH THE CAPABLILITY, TO SPEED BLITZ ANY CHARACTER ON THE FORUM THAT THEY ARE FIGHTING AS LONG AS THE PERSON THEY ARE FIGHTING IS VULNERABLE TO IT!!!!!! PIS STANDS FOR "PLOT INDUCED STUPIDITY" THAT MEANS THAT IF SUPERMAN WAS A VICTIM OF PIS HE WOULDN'T FIGHT TO THE BEST OF HIS ABILITIES BECAUSE HE WOULD WIN THE FIGHT TO QUICKLY IN THE COMIC!!!! THAT'S WHY PIS IS NOT ALLOWED IN FORUM BATTLE'S, BECAUSE EVERYBODY FIGHTS TO THE BEST OF THEIR ABILITIES!!!!! DO YOU GET IT NOW??!!!!




You say that Superman can blitz Surfer, fine. Show me some instances of Surfer being on the recieving end of a blitz by somene and I'll consider it a viable possibility. But until I see it happen, I'm not convinced that he could.

lol then their is no convincing you, Supes has traveled 300 trillion times the speed of light (that actual number stated in the narration) and you dont think he could speed blitz SS?

Its no use to argue with you then, you call everything PC supes does PIS (which it is not) so theirs no point.

Originally posted by Jesse7
lol then their is no convincing you, Supes has traveled 300 trillion times the speed of light (that actual number stated in the narration) and you dont think he could speed blitz SS?

Its no use to argue with you then, you call everything PC supes does PIS (which it is not) so theirs no point.
You are still not paying attention. The low showings of Superman is what's referred to as PIS, NOT HIS BEST SHOWINGS. If you would like, I can post the forum rules if it would help you to understand that.

Now since your the one saying that Superman can blitz Surfer it's up to you to prove that. I'm not questioning Superman's speed, I'm questioning if it would be enough to blitz the Surfer. Since you say it is, it's up to you to prove that.

Ok Jesse, I just realized where the confusion regarding PIS came into play. In your intial post, you said that I might consider Supes high ended feats as PIS, and I stated using the term too for some dumbass reason or another. However, these are not PIS. PIS is an instance when a character doesn't preform as well as he should, not when a character does something that is more than he is capable. However PIS is not allowed in forum battles because it makes the character look less powerful than they really are. I'm sorry that I got upset about your not understanding that since I contributed to the initial confusion.
Now, that being said, I believe many of PC Supes that he gets on the fly powers ARE covered under SvFL, because powers that are almost never seen(meaning, more than once or twice) fall under that heading. So if he developed a power for one issue and then never used it again, it doesn't count. By the same token, he can't develope an anti-surfer eye blast just for the purposes of this fight. That's not my rule, that's the forum rule, and it's every bit as valid as the rule that states that the characters will fight to the best of their ability. Superman is bound by the rules to use only his standard abilities.

Only Surfer with uni-power would be able to stand a chanse agianst pre-c supes.

Originally posted by darthgoober
Ok Jesse, I just realized where the confusion regarding PIS came into play. In your intial post, you said that I might consider Supes high ended feats as PIS, and I stated using the term too for some dumbass reason or another. However, these are not PIS. PIS is an instance when a character doesn't preform as well as he should, not when a character does something that is more than he is capable. However PIS is not allowed in forum battles because it makes the character look less powerful than they really are. I'm sorry that I got upset about your not understanding that since I contributed to the initial confusion.
Now, that being said, I believe many of PC Supes that he gets on the fly powers ARE covered under SvFL, because powers that are almost never seen(meaning, more than once or twice) fall under that heading. So if he developed a power for one issue and then never used it again, it doesn't count. By the same token, he can't develope an anti-surfer eye blast just for the purposes of this fight. That's not my rule, that's the forum rule, and it's every bit as valid as the rule that states that the characters will fight to the best of their ability. Superman is bound by the rules to use only his standard abilities. 300 million times lightspeed is a lot faster than Surfer. Needless to say, he can vibrate himself out of time with reality, join another reality, or move through time at will, all with far greater control and frequency than Surfer.


SvFL doesn't really cover PC Supes, it's more of Batman be unable to through a 6 feet of solid titanium, but then kicking Captain Marvel unconscious and knocking the magic out of him. Or as the name suggests... Spiderman kicking around Firelord.

Most of Supes' 'invented powers' are just variations of his powers, or multiple of powers he had shown used in conjunction with another. Surfer would be at far more of a disadvantage than PC supes if we took away one time powers. He would just fly and shoot blasts mostly, lol.

Well lets look at SS I'm not sure on the entire feat but in a picosecond he has calculated the entire size weight abilities of an army or armarda something like that easily and He travels really fast really fast.

The point is like I said from the begining say what you will about PC Supes he was only a beast when he needed to be to win a match. The fact is every power he could produce and has SS can reproduce it and do more things.

If Supes tries to lure him to a sun SS could change the sun into a red sun. If Supes tried to T-VO SS, Silver Surfe removes Supes mind from body. If Superman wants to Vibrate Silver Surfer breaks the bonds holding his atoms together thus sprinkling Supes body across the universe. If Supes tries to Speedblitz him SS makes a K-Nite or red sun aura(He would know about them because of cosmic awarness) around himself. Supes puts him in another reality or time SS uses his powers to get back and then SS could do the same to Supes but instead teleports him into a Red Sun

There is no evidence that Superman will be leaps and bounds above him in this fight only the idea that PC Supes being PC Supes is alot faster with no real backing behind it.

Like I said I know what kind of beast PC Supes was but when it is hard to argue a quick victory other than the hope he can put him down in one punch faster than the guy with no real backing and the other guy has access to everyway inmaginable on how to beat you it is hard to argue the majority for them.

Originally posted by newjak86
Well lets look at SS I'm not sure on the entire feat but in a picosecond he has calculated the entire size weight abilities of an army or armarda something like that easily and He travels really fast really fast.

The point is like I said from the begining say what you will about PC Supes he was only a beast when he needed to be to win a match. The fact is every power he could produce and has SS can reproduce it and do more things.

If Supes tries to lure him to a sun SS could change the sun into a red sun. If Supes tried to T-VO SS, Silver Surfe removes Supes mind from body. If Superman wants to Vibrate Silver Surfer breaks the bonds holding his atoms together thus sprinkling Supes body across the universe. If Supes tries to Speedblitz him SS makes a K-Nite or red sun aura(He would know about them because of cosmic awarness) around himself. Supes puts him in another reality or time SS uses his powers to get back and then SS could do the same to Supes but instead teleports him into a Red Sun

There is no evidence that Superman will be leaps and bounds above him in this fight only the idea that PC Supes being PC Supes is alot faster with no real backing behind it.

Like I said I know what kind of beast PC Supes was but when it is hard to argue a quick victory other than the hope he can put him down in one punch faster than the guy with no real backing and the other guy has access to everyway inmaginable on how to beat you it is hard to argue the majority for them.
Thank you.

Originally posted by Juntai
300 million times lightspeed is a lot faster than Surfer. Needless to say, he can vibrate himself out of time with reality, join another reality, or move through time at will, all with far greater control and frequency than Surfer.


SvFL doesn't really cover PC Supes, it's more of Batman be unable to through a 6 feet of solid titanium, but then kicking Captain Marvel unconscious and knocking the magic out of him. Or as the name suggests... Spiderman kicking around Firelord.

Most of Supes' 'invented powers' are just variations of his powers, or multiple of powers he had shown used in conjunction with another. Surfer would be at far more of a disadvantage than PC supes if we took away one time powers. He would just fly and shoot blasts mostly, lol.
Yeah,I reread the rules, and I somehow missed the part about how the one use powers also had to be blatantly beyond their abilities. My bad. Anyway, I can even accept the one time use powers without to much problem, but I do have problem with him developing something new for the purposes of this fight, and that guy was acting like Supes could develop a Super-AntiSurfer eye blast, the way he was talking about him developing powers on the fly(which I'll admit he would do in a comic ). Also, that guy was trying to act like Superman didn't have a weakness to red sunlight or kryptonite, when they are established weaknesses(and if Superman did fight at full power like he said, I would say that does fall under the heading of blatantly beyond his abilities and bad writing, so that SHOULD be covered under SvFL).
But back to my point, does anyone have scans of an instance where Surfer was on the receiving end of a blitz? I for one can't think of one and I won't accept it as a possibility without evidence that it's a viable option.

Some one get the scans of the SS Vs Runner fight, the Runner speed blitzes SS several times in that fight.

Originally posted by newjak86
Well lets look at SS I'm not sure on the entire feat but in a picosecond he has calculated the entire size weight abilities of an army or armarda something like that easily and He travels really fast really fast.

The point is like I said from the begining say what you will about PC Supes he was only a beast when he needed to be to win a match. The fact is every power he could produce and has SS can reproduce it and do more things.

If Supes tries to lure him to a sun SS could change the sun into a red sun. If Supes tried to T-VO SS, Silver Surfe removes Supes mind from body. If Superman wants to Vibrate Silver Surfer breaks the bonds holding his atoms together thus sprinkling Supes body across the universe. If Supes tries to Speedblitz him SS makes a K-Nite or red sun aura(He would know about them because of cosmic awarness) around himself. Supes puts him in another reality or time SS uses his powers to get back and then SS could do the same to Supes but instead teleports him into a Red Sun

There is no evidence that Superman will be leaps and bounds above him in this fight only the idea that PC Supes being PC Supes is alot faster with no real backing behind it.

Like I said I know what kind of beast PC Supes was but when it is hard to argue a quick victory other than the hope he can put him down in one punch faster than the guy with no real backing and the other guy has access to everyway inmaginable on how to beat you it is hard to argue the majority for them.

You act as if Red sun radiation or Krypotnite actually ever defeated PC Supes, most of the time it affected him for a panel or two and then he overcame the weakness and became immune to it.

You say SS could beat Supes T-vo.......have you actually read supes comics in which he uses T-Vo on Abstract level being (I dunno what to call the guys level, he was clearly beyond sky father and RKT level) and defeated him with it? Are you going to call that PIS? Even if you do by forum rules its one of Supes powers and his feats when using it far surpass anything surfer has doen in that category.

Some one get the scans of the SS Vs Runner fight, the Runner speed blitzes SS several times in that fight.

Out of topic question: Could PC Supes return in time to save Krypton?

Originally posted by Jesse7
You act as if Red sun radiation or Krypotnite actually ever defeated PC Supes, most of the time it affected him for a panel or two and then he overcame the weakness and became immune to it. You do realze if he gets weaker for a little time that is all SS needs to beat him by atomizing him. He could also drain Supes power source if he wanted. Just because these things haven't beaten him doesn't mean he hasn't been effected and weakened by them and as someone else said there is a first time for everything even PC Supes loosing.

Exactly who was this Abstract level being that was beyond RKT. You just can't throw out those power levels saying it as such because you do realize Abstract level beings are beyond Galactus in power which in turn means supes should be able to beat DS if he wanted.

Wasn't you who said you shouldn't use people that are far Superior in power levels to the people being talked about.

Runner is a high level cosmic being that is literally supposed to be speed personified and is supposed to be able to be anywhere at anytime. Supes is no way in Runner's league.

Originally posted by newjak86
You do realze if he gets weaker for a little time that is all SS needs to beat him by atomizing him. He could also drain Supes power source if he wanted. Just because these things haven't beaten him doesn't mean he hasn't been effected and weakened by them and as someone else said there is a first time for everything even PC Supes loosing.

Exactly who was this Abstract level being that was beyond RKT. You just can't throw out those power levels saying it as such because you do realize Abstract level beings are beyond Galactus in power which in turn means supes should be able to beat DS if he wanted.

Wasn't you who said you shouldn't use people that are far Superior in power levels to the people being talked about.

Runner is a high level cosmic being that is literally supposed to be speed personified and is supposed to be able to be anywhere at anytime. Supes is no way in Runner's league.

Firstly, you say SS could defeat Supes by draining him, have you payed any attention to Supes entire history when has draining him every defeated him, espicially in the last 7 years.

Secondly, Im going to get the scans of this abstract being so you can see your self, and by the way Supes does beat DS as of recent. And also this holds no relevance to this debate because Darkseid dwarfs SS in every stat, and if you want to go by current DS then hes abstract level at the very least now that he has absorbed a portion of the infinite ALE, want to see scans of how powerful it is? Go to the PC Supes vs RKT thread I posted them there.

I am asked to provide an example of when SS has been speed blitzed, so I provide the example of when the Runner speed blitzed SS several times in the same fight, and now your saying I cant use it because hes above SS? What kind of logic is that, if anything that proves my argument further, the runner is faster then SS and was able to speed blitz him, PC Supes is faster then the runner thus he will be easily able to speed blitz SS.

Need I post the scans of PC Supes traveling 300 trillion times the speed of light, SS has never come close to this speed.

Or need I post the scans of PC Superboy who effortlessly traveled across universes in less then a fraction of asecond in a playful race with pc super girl no less?

Face it PC Supes out classes SS

Originally posted by Jesse7
Firstly, you say SS could defeat Supes by draining him, have you payed any attention to Supes entire history when has draining him every defeated him, espicially in the last 7 years. Point he still is effected by it there is no debating that these things have and can effect him and that is all SS needs to beat him by atomizing him removing his mind from his body take your pick.

Already checked it replied and you completely mistook what I said and DS dwarfs Supes in every stat as well

No the Runner is leaps and bounds above anything in speed because the Runner is supposed to be the very essence of speed he is supposed to be able to be anywhere he wants at anytime he is so fast. So it isn't that you provided an instant it is that as you say you provided a poor one because the person like DS is above everyone in the match.

So he is affected, your logic is flawed by that i could say SS is still affected by brute force and punches, thus all it takes is that one momment for PC supes to punch surfer and he implodes, want to know why he would instantly die from one punch? Because Thanos and Thor are able to box and KO surfer in hand to hand combat, Thanos in particular KO'ed SS with nothing but punches and kicks. OR are you going to tell me Thanos is stronger then PC Supes? or that its all PIS?

DS does dwarf PC supes in physical stats, but hey thats all the more for my argument that DS is more powerful then you think, as I said PC Supes is far above anything SS can dream of, and DS is above Pc Supes, your point is moot the argument is SS vs pc supes.

The runner can be called the Speed force for all I care, what we go by is feats, and the runner wasnt this so called god of speed was he when Thanos completely schooled him.

Face it Pc Supes is faster then the Runner and SS combined, Pc Supes going cassualy at 300 trillion times the speed of light? Give me a break the runner and SS cant even compare to PC Supes

Originally posted by Jesse7
Firstly, you say SS could defeat Supes by draining him, have you payed any attention to Supes entire history when has draining him every defeated him, espicially in the last 7 years.


First of all, how does ANYTHING Supes has done in the last 7 years, have any relevance to THIS fight, this is PC Superman.
Second, how many times in Surfers entire history has he actually lost a fight to a person without cosmic power just extraordinary strength and speed(Thanos and Thor dont's count because Thanos amps up his stats via cosmic power, and Thor uses his hammer which is Magical).

Many MANY times, Thor beat Surfer in h2h combat with no energy blast or magic twice, firstly when Surfer was tricked by Loki to attack Thor in asgard and secondly when Thor boxed and Ko'ed SS in the blood and reign arc I think.

Thanos has also KO'ed Surfer with nothing but punches and h2h fighting.

Ill find more examples.

Originally posted by Jesse7
Many MANY times, Thor beat Surfer in h2h combat with no energy blast or magic twice, firstly when Surfer was tricked by Loki to attack Thor in asgard and secondly when Thor boxed and Ko'ed SS in the blood and reign arc I think.

Thanos has also KO'ed Surfer with nothing but punches and h2h fighting.

Ill find more examples.

Wait, so your go to say "Many MANY times, Thor beat Surfer in h2h combat with no energy blast or magic", and then you give two examples? Sorry but that ain't going to cut it. When were all these other times? Because unless I am mistaken, Surfer holds more wins over Thor than vise versa. It would also be nice if you could provide an example of it happening since Surfers recent power upgrade.
Regarding Thanos, he can amp up his stats with cosmic power(including strength) to unknown levels. That means that we don't know how strong he was when they were fighting. And as much as you hate to hear this, it also means that he could in fact be stronger than PC Superman, it's never been tested.
But none of this changes the fact that Surfer is capable of exploiting every weakness that Superman has. Now the fact that you say that on the forum he doesn't posses those weaknesses is irrelevant. Everyone else on this forum accepts kryptonite, red sunlight, and energy draining as weaknesses for Superman, even the fan-boys. And your inability to accept those because that would make Superman beatable, destroys your creditability in a debate such as this. The Superman that you described earlier couldn't be beaten by ANYONE. Not even Darkseid, Your bias on behalf of Superman is obvious to anyone reading your post, you make no effort to try to view things impartially, you just assume that Superman would win. Why? Because he's Superman and he's not allowed to lose. No evidence I, or anyone else showed you, would convince you so it's really pointless trying. Keep your delusions about your hero for all I care, because I'm not going to try to have a debate with someone who doesn't have any interest in figuring out who SHOULD win. Only ranting on about how great their hero is.

Pre chrisis supes & well written in the same sentence? oxymoron?

Originally posted by ExtraMision5555
Pre chrisis supes & well written in the same sentence? oxymoron?
Tell me about it.

Bump.

smh

What? I can't bump a thread?
innocent

Supes blitzes him to death and beats him down easier than Thanos did

Originally posted by newjak86
Well lets look at SS I'm not sure on the entire feat but in a picosecond he has calculated the entire size weight abilities of an army or armarda something like that easily and He travels really fast really fast.

The point is like I said from the begining say what you will about PC Supes he was only a beast when he needed to be to win a match. The fact is every power he could produce and has SS can reproduce it and do more things.

If Supes tries to lure him to a sun SS could change the sun into a red sun. If Supes tried to T-VO SS, Silver Surfe removes Supes mind from body. If Superman wants to Vibrate Silver Surfer breaks the bonds holding his atoms together thus sprinkling Supes body across the universe. If Supes tries to Speedblitz him SS makes a K-Nite or red sun aura(He would know about them because of cosmic awarness) around himself. Supes puts him in another reality or time SS uses his powers to get back and then SS could do the same to Supes but instead teleports him into a Red Sun

There is no evidence that Superman will be leaps and bounds above him in this fight only the idea that PC Supes being PC Supes is alot faster with no real backing behind it.

Like I said I know what kind of beast PC Supes was but when it is hard to argue a quick victory other than the hope he can put him down in one punch faster than the guy with no real backing and the other guy has access to everyway inmaginable on how to beat you it is hard to argue the majority for them.
PROFILED.

lol @ the necrobump

http://i1210.photobucket.com/albums/cc412/igniz6/PCTerraman/Tech/Transmutation/File1240.jpg
http://i1210.photobucket.com/albums/cc412/igniz6/PCTerraman/Tech/Transmutation/File1241.jpg



Just kidding

TBH I was about to do a PC Terraman thread but got sidetracked.

Also, if SS decides to transmutate PC Supes, victory would go to SS.If not, PC Supes gives SS a manhandling.

Superman was pretty much immune to transmutation due to his durability save by magical means.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Superman was pretty much immune to transmutation due to his durability save by magical means.

And yet Tobias found a way through technological means.There's no proof Terraman used magic whatsoever to transmutate PC Supes in this story.If you ask me, Terraman's level of tech in transmutation is = to the level of magical transmutation.

Originally posted by Igniz
And yet Tobias found a way through technological means.There's no proof Terraman used magic whatsoever to transmutate PC Supes in this story.If you ask me, Terraman's level of tech in transmutation is = to the level of magical transmutation.
Terra-man has used magic before. Which comic are those scans from? I think that there is some context behind that. Here is a weakened superman vs a cosmic entity which converts everything into energy

Originally posted by abhilegend
Superman vs an entity which converts all matter into energy

http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/Pre-crisis/th_supermanspecial01-02.jpg http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/Pre-crisis/th_supermanspecial01-03.jpg http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/Pre-crisis/th_supermanspecial01-04.jpg http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/Pre-crisis/th_supermanspecial01-05.jpg

Originally posted by abhilegend
Terra-man has used magic before. Which comic are those scans from? I think that there is some context behind that. Here is a weakened superman vs a cosmic entity which converts everything into energy

You mean the time Terraman met another of himself with magical powers?I think that issue was around in the 1980's or so.The scan I posted was from the 1977 Action Comics#470.Terraman and Superman fought in #469.I think Terraman was holding the city hostage upon that time.Also, nice scans.

Originally posted by Igniz
You mean the time Terraman met another of himself with magical powers?I think that issue was around in the 1980's or so.The scan I posted was from the 1977 Action Comics#470.Terraman and Superman fought in #469.I think Terraman was holding the city hostage upon that time.Also, nice scans.
Yeah, the same. There is no context here but its not beneficial for surfer in the least. Its frankly PIS.

Superman sneezes.

We are now left with the Silver Smear.

Boring's PC Supes sometimes flew upright w/o standing on anything. Soarin' Norrin is out of his league here.

Originally posted by Nibedicus
Superman sneezes.

We are now left with the Silver Smear.

Abhi... What the hell.

Originally posted by -Pr-
Abhi... What the hell.
Originally posted by abhilegend
What? I can't bump a thread?
innocent