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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lucifer

Your thoughts.

Interesting isn't it????? And to think the church integrated it into the doctrine for our well being.....How the church must love us.....

He is also a evil devil.I know I do not want to riot in hell wiht him.JMfurious

Think about this. If God, in the Christian sense (and many other religions) is "perfect"...meaning, there is no possible way to improve upon it in any way, and the result is something inconceivable by our minds...then how is it that Lucifer is able to 'leave' God??? This leaves me with 3 conclusions...
1. God never fully presented himself to Lucifer therefore never giving him a fair chance at staying.
Or
2. God isn't perfect.
Or
3. None of it ever happened...Satan, and therefore Hell, doesn't exist.

I've long dis-believed the existence of a hell. A God who says "Here are some rules. Now I'll be forgiving, but if I think you didn't do well enough in your life I'll send you to eternal punishment," doesn't seem to be a very loving God to me.

Furthermore (since I'm on my high-horse anyway), we are an adaptive species. Anything very good or very bad, we get used to eventually...and it isn't so bad or good. Apply this to heaven and hell. Unless it is so far beyond what we can conceive, any punishment will eventually become routine...be it spiritual, mental, or physical...or will at least lessen in its intensity. The same with heaven (again, unless it is far beyond our comprehension). I believe in an 'other' life, but I honestly don't think it will be anything like our popular conceptions of heaven or hell.

-DM

Interesting post.

Originally posted by Freaky Zeeky
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lucifer

Your thoughts. The Jews don't believe in the devil or hell. They believe in a tempter, nit thay think he's an angel doing the will of god. Well we got to scare them some way because we love them.

actually they believe in the evil one but his name isn't really lucifer, he had alot of names but he never had one. He was called the bright morning star in ezekiel, which is his true name.

so you have spoken to him and he told you that it was so?

no, only God can speak to Satan.

yeah right

oh yes, he spoke to god in job and still does today.

man this is getting better and better

this is true and Satan must ask god for permission to test a saint that doesn't seem to give into Satan's ways.

hysterical...................oh if there was a sataan and it was this gods nemesis . Satan do as it pleases without asking this god a thing

Originally posted by cking
oh yes, he spoke to god in job and still does today.

I think Job is only a story, like a parble..Satan the evil fallen angel is not real.

Why is it not true?

because it is a fable...........

Originally posted by cking
no, only God can speak to Satan.

Did god tell you this...or satan?

Satan is real if not then none of us would be tempted for he is called the tempter and without temptation, sin would never be a problem.

Satan does this to get back at god for the incident in heaven.

in job god told Satan you can only hurt him physically, but not kill him. Satan obeyed even through he was thrown out of heaven, he is still under his power and if it was up to him he would have killed job, because he was jealous of him. so he asked god if he would strike your hand against he would guarantee he would curse him in his face. If satan killed him since he was his servant, god would severely punish him and satan was afraid to say anything because of that.

and this couldnt be put into one post?

it would be too long and frustrating.

better that than frustrate everyone with small but multiple posts in a row

true

yet you do it

Originally posted by cking
Satan does this to get back at god for the incident in heaven.

Satan the devil came from the early Egyptians. They called him the Great Serpent Sata, Son of the Earth. immortal because he was regenerated every day in the Goddess's womb.

Satan is not real...it's a myth..

cking...you're gonna get banned again for too many little posts.

yes, he is real if not we would never be tempted, for revelations says, the the kingdom comes Satan will be bound for a thousand years and Christ's kingdom will not have sin, temptations, or anything. people who say Satan isn't real are only fooling themselves and he the only enemy and very cunning at making people say he isn't real so he can come from behind and devour their soul. Jesus specifically said alot about the evil one. Jews did believe in him and they called him Beelzebub, the chief prince of demons. jesus was tempted by satan in the wilderness

this is janimals_bunny2ust as real as satan...

when Adam and the human race sinned, they were always bent on sinning. Satan would make them permanent for them if they would listen to them. In Ezekiel, this is the evil one that caused eve to sin. Satan only wants man to sin, so he can get back at god for throwing him out of heaven. People can choose to sin or not but if they do then satan comes in and manipulates them and make them think it is good for them to sin, because everyone does it and you will get all the friends you want, because you will be popular if you rape, murder, steal, hate, lie, and cheat your wife. Satan will urge and tempt them to do it again and again.

The Biblical title Eve means "Mother of All Living" it was translated from an older Kali Ma's title, Jagnmata. In India she was known as Jiva or Ieva. In Assyrian she was titled Mother Womb, Creatress of Destiny, made man and female from the clay.

The first Bible creation myths came from Assyrian versions...which is much older...The Jews copied it...Just like they did with Satan.

Don't you understand....ALL THESE STORIES WERE COPIED....

are you saying the bible is a lie and god isn't real? if so then we shouldn't be discussing this. our religion would be a lie and we would all be doomed if you say the bible is a lie and was created by pagans of different cultures? the bible is the breath of God and anyone who ever rewrites it then they would be punished by god because they try to twist his word around.

Originally posted by cking
are you saying the bible is a lie and god isn't real? if so then we shouldn't be discussing this. our religion would be a lie and we would all be doomed if you say the bible is a lie and was created by pagans of different cultures? the bible is the breath of God and anyone who ever rewrites it then they would be punished by god because they try to twist his word around.

Yes, that's what I'm saying......I used to think like you, then found out the truth...And we are not doomed cause there is no hell, no Satan..But I do believe there is God...Just not the one portrayed in the Bible.

http://www.nobeliefs.com/DarkBible/darkbible2.htm At least look at this. About the Bible being the breath of God...

http://jmm.aaa.net.au/articles/14706.htm Look at this about hell.


http://www.sullivan-county.com/news/paul/j_myth.htm And this about Jesus...

Then tell me what you think...

one thing for certain, god will not let anyone mess with his word. The prophets didn't go around with people who had better ideals and say to them, here do what you want with this book make up a bunch of stuff. the prophets were secluded from these people and they only meet people when they had something to say from God. This people are either confused or trying to get the bible twisted. The bible is written by the prophets not by anyone else. They have to be 100% accurate of else they would be stoned to death for a false prophecy.

The truth is in the bible not humans and their sayings.

if you want to change the bible, why just do it yourself?

Originally posted by cking
when Adam and the human race sinned, they were always bent on sinning. Satan would make them permanent for them if they would listen to them. In Ezekiel, this is the evil one that caused eve to sin. Satan only wants man to sin, so he can get back at god for throwing him out of heaven. People can choose to sin or not but if they do then satan comes in and manipulates them and make them think it is good for them to sin, because everyone does it and you will get all the friends you want, because you will be popular if you rape, murder, steal, hate, lie, and cheat your wife. Satan will urge and tempt them to do it again and again.


So constatine killing all those people,including his son and wife is all right?That's not a sin?

Originally posted by cking
one thing for certain, god will not let anyone mess with his word. The prophets didn't go around with people who had better ideals and say to them, here do what you want with this book make up a bunch of stuff. the prophets were secluded from these people and they only meet people when they had something to say from God. This people are either confused or trying to get the bible twisted. The bible is written by the prophets not by anyone else. They have to be 100% accurate of else they would be stoned to death for a false prophecy.


So this is why the Jesus story has been around before Christ and why the Gospels contradict eachother?

They don't the gospels aren't the same, some may have more information than others.

Lucifer is my daddy

Hehe...agreeing with much of what debbiejoe has said...

Rather than repeat myself in a few areas, I'd ask you to re-read my post on page 1 about all of this.

But Satan exists because temptation exists? And because the Bible tells us he does? First, that assumes everyone believes the Bible and that it, and the 'prophets,' are infallible. Second, rather than saying "the Bible is true" or "the Bible tells us..." why not back it up with some logic and reason, not just outdated blind faith.

Last I checked, God didn't write the Bible....humans did. And even if they were 'inspired' by God, humans are indeed flawed...even the Bible has instances on failures from people who are under the commands of 'God'. But, God (be it the Bible's god or a different one) wrote the Universe, and he 'wrote' our intellectual capabilities...writings that I've used quite handily to believe that Satan has never existed (for reasons stated on page 1) That's my Bible.

-DM

By the way, good sites earlier debbiejoe

Originally posted by cking
They don't the gospels aren't the same, some may have more information than others.


I could post a lot of things here,but I won't post too much

read luke 22:67-70.

Lukes account,like Matthews and Johns,contradicts Marks claim that Jesus resoundingly and Publicly affirmed his divine appointment at his trial (Mark 14:62).In Luke,Jesus answers only evasively.


Luke's account suggests that Jesus had received public acclaim as King (19:38).When the Pharisees warned hm to silence thoos who were shouting these things,Jesus refused to do so (19:39-40)Mark claims he made these claims alone yet Matthew,Luke and John say others say this of him.

Originally posted by cking
The truth is in the bible not humans and their sayings.

Make your posts shorter man!

Originally posted by GothPrincess
Lucifer is my daddy

any punishment will eventually become routine...be it spiritual, mental, or physical...or will at least lessen in its intensity. The same with heaven (again, unless it is far beyond our comprehension). I believe in an 'other' life, but I honestly don't think it will be anything like our popular conceptions of heaven or hell.

-DM

Yeah wouldn't it...become routine...After awhile, it might feel good..

AND wouldn't all those demons get tired of punishing us...What if they decide to quit...then who will punish us...what would god do if the demons quit?...Demons don't like to obey god in the first place, so maybe they won't punish us at all...

Good point.

Originally posted by mr.smiley
Good point.

Well, maybe we could punish each other....

whip
"Dow who **** with Saint Zeeky will face a thousand punishments!"

Originally posted by debbiejo
Well, maybe we could punish each other....


Theirs an old Japanese story that actualy has us torturing eachother.The story depicts a man that sees heaven.Everyone in heaven has two long sticks tied to their hands(like chopsticks) around a long dinner table.The sticks are so long that they can't feed themselves,however,they can feed the person sitting across from them.They all eat in harmony and find a way to work together.The man then sees the same situation in Hell,only the people are being selfish and are trying to put the food into their own mouths.The food is wasted and everyone goes hungry.


From Aikido and the Harmony of Nature

Not in your avatar picture though huh....He must of gone to heaven.

evil spirits don't get tired like us flesh and bone. They simply think it is fun to go around creating chaos for people. temptations don't have to occur from Satan but humans as well. Satan tempted Jesus when he was alone for 40 days without water or food. and Satan used the bible against Jesus only this time to twist it around. here is a verse in Matthew chapter four verse one through eleven. The the spirit led Jesus into the desert to be tempted by the devil. Jesus ate nothing for 40 days and nights. After this, he was very hungry. The devil came to Jesus to tempt him. The devil said, "If you are the son of god, tell these rocks to become bread." Jesus answered, "It is written in the scriptures, A person does not live only by eating bread. But a person lives by everything the lord says." Then the devil led Jesus to the holy city or Jerusalem. He put Jesus on a very high place of the temple. The devil said, "If you are the son of God, jump off. It is written in the scriptures, He has put his angels in charge of you. They will catch you with their hands. And you will not hit your foot on a rock. Jesus answered him, "It also says in the scriptures, Do not test the lord your God. Then the devil led Jesus to the top of a very high mountain. He showed Jesus all the kingdoms of the world. The devil said, "If only you will bow down and worship me, I will give you all these things." Jesus answered to the devil, "Go away from me Satan! It is written in the scriptures, you must worship the lord your God. Serve only him!" So the devil left Jesus. And then some angels came to Jesus and helped him. This happened after Jesus was starting his ministry. Satan tempted him so he would bypass the cross and mankind will continue to be doomed and used very good verses to try and trick him. Satan does the same thing in Churches and he tells them that the bible is wrong don't go to Christ, try and save yourself, God is wrong, he doesn't love you, everyone hates you. The bible is nothing more than just man made, it doesn't make sense, go and and find inner strength in yourself, for salvation is in humankind. Satan will says this to all people and he will twist the gospel around and get people away from Christ. So uses other religions against jesus and his church. you cannot imagine how powerful satan has in all human life. But God still controls him. The spirit world is alot more powerful than the flesh world. people don't realize this because they don't see them. When satan fell he is in command of one-third of the angels of heaven and when he fell on the earth the fallen angels came also. in a spiritual sense satan right now is the king of this world, for jesus says so, but not for long when jesus will arrive with his 1,000 year reign and satan will be chained and bound. satan does control what a certain country does in a religious matter, but the financial stuff is left to the flesh. He might say to one fallen angel and say, "Go and and twist the gospel around in Europe and tempt them to only follow the Buddhist religion. This way we can get back at God." to another angel, "Go to America and watch and listen to what the Christan's are saying and arguing about this verse, and tempt them into saying that by Good works man will find salvation, not christ." If you still thing satan isn't real, just look outside for yourselves and the evidence is right in front of your face, look at what he has done. If jesus was the king right now sin will never exist and people will never be hateful like they are right now. Since people only listen to what satan has to say instead of christ, then they will act like him in every way instead of christ. Satan didn't get a high position in heaven for nothing. Satan has no problem leading people to false truths and lies. Satan knows what is in the scripture and he knows what is happening in the Church. Some people say oh, satan is never in the Church, wrong! satan is there because he wants to find the right time to twist the word around and deceive the Christians. if a pastor doesn't really know for sure if what if that scripture says if it is a sin or not, then satan will come in and tempt him into saying and lie to him about this and that. Some people say it is God that is saying that this or that is right, but is only being fooled by Satan.

I'm sorry....I don't think you're human...

I am, I just know alot about this world. only god knows everything. people only know the things they see. still we can't be fools wandering around this earth, not knowing what is happening and will happen to us.

Originally posted by debbiejo
Not in your avatar picture though huh....He must of gone to heaven.


Oh yeah!

Originally posted by cking
evil spirits don't get tired like us flesh and bone. They simply think it is fun to go around creating chaos for people. temptations don't have to occur from Satan but humans as well. Satan tempted Jesus when he was alone for 40 days without water or food. and Satan used the bible against Jesus only this time to twist it around. here is a verse in Matthew chapter four verse one through eleven. The the spirit led Jesus into the desert to be tempted by the devil. Jesus ate nothing for 40 days and nights. After this, he was very hungry. The devil came to Jesus to tempt him. The devil said, "If you are the son of god, tell these rocks to become bread." Jesus answered, "It is written in the scriptures, A person does not live only by eating bread. But a person lives by everything the lord says." Then the devil led Jesus to the holy city or Jerusalem. He put Jesus on a very high place of the temple. The devil said, "If you are the son of God, jump off. It is written in the scriptures, He has put his angels in charge of you. They will catch you with their hands. And you will not hit your foot on a rock. Jesus answered him, "It also says in the scriptures, Do not test the lord your God. Then the devil led Jesus to the top of a very high mountain. He showed Jesus all the kingdoms of the world. The devil said, "If only you will bow down and worship me, I will give you all these things." Jesus answered to the devil, "Go away from me Satan! It is written in the scriptures, you must worship the lord your God. Serve only him!" So the devil left Jesus. And then some angels came to Jesus and helped him. This happened after Jesus was starting his ministry. Satan tempted him so he would bypass the cross and mankind will continue to be doomed and used very good verses to try and trick him. Satan does the same thing in Churches and he tells them that the bible is wrong don't go to Christ, try and save yourself, God is wrong, he doesn't love you, everyone hates you. The bible is nothing more than just man made, it doesn't make sense, go and and find inner strength in yourself, for salvation is in humankind. Satan will says this to all people and he will twist the gospel around and get people away from Christ. So uses other religions against jesus and his church. you cannot imagine how powerful satan has in all human life. But God still controls him. The spirit world is alot more powerful than the flesh world. people don't realize this because they don't see them. When satan fell he is in command of one-third of the angels of heaven and when he fell on the earth the fallen angels came also. in a spiritual sense satan right now is the king of this world, for jesus says so, but not for long when jesus will arrive with his 1,000 year reign and satan will be chained and bound. satan does control what a certain country does in a religious matter, but the financial stuff is left to the flesh. He might say to one fallen angel and say, "Go and and twist the gospel around in Europe and tempt them to only follow the Buddhist religion. This way we can get back at God." to another angel, "Go to America and watch and listen to what the Christan's are saying and arguing about this verse, and tempt them into saying that by Good works man will find salvation, not christ." If you still thing satan isn't real, just look outside for yourselves and the evidence is right in front of your face, look at what he has done. If jesus was the king right now sin will never exist and people will never be hateful like they are right now. Since people only listen to what satan has to say instead of christ, then they will act like him in every way instead of christ. Satan didn't get a high position in heaven for nothing. Satan has no problem leading people to false truths and lies. Satan knows what is in the scripture and he knows what is happening in the Church. Some people say oh, satan is never in the Church, wrong! satan is there because he wants to find the right time to twist the word around and deceive the Christians. if a pastor doesn't really know for sure if what if that scripture says if it is a sin or not, then satan will come in and tempt him into saying and lie to him about this and that. Some people say it is God that is saying that this or that is right, but is only being fooled by Satan.


Satan is within in us,yet Christ isn't.That's a terrible thing for the Church to teach.I know you never personaly said Christ isn't within us,but that's what the genral Christian community belives.

Originally posted by cking
I am,

Are you sure...cause I'm not sure anymore...

when a person is on the verge of converting to Christ. two forces are for or against that person. Satan will tempt them and say don't do it is a lie, you will never be popular in school if you accept Christ. but God will win if that person chooses Christ. He will shut out Satan and his lies and bring that person to God if that person chooses to accept Christ instead of Satan and they accept Satan they choose not to be with God and God may not ever come back to convict that person to Christ. It is now or never in those king of situations.

He is not within a person, but a church, but he does influence a person's life either Christian or not.

Originally posted by cking
He is not within a person, but a church, but he does influence a person's life either Christian or not.

Yes,but the Gospel of Thomas tells us different though.The church strongly denied the authenticity of it,but in a lot of peoples opion,it's a very good teaching indeed.To say he's in the Church is giving into the church too much and goes back to Constatines dictation of Rome.

Correction.It is authentic.Just not accepted by the church.

the doctrines aren't twisted for nothing. still Satan is wandering around on earth and still and walks around in the churches.

it doesn't always have to deal with Constantine's dictation. still it in voles alot of others.

Martin Luther was equaly as sick.He said if Women die during childbirth let it be.That's what they are their for.The Church even voted on whether or not women had souls.That's some sick stuff.

sure is, but Luther wasn't sick. but it sounds like alot of early catholic beliefs.

Most of it somewhere between 1400-1500.Some was Catholic,some was Protestant.Martin Luther showed a lot of distaste for women (as did most Christians at the time who where in a posistion of power).

if it wasn't for Luther, the catholic church would never split up is that true? I read alot about him and did get married. alot of people back then put women at a lower power not just Christians.

True.However,even at that time he was greatly prejudice against protestants.

how can that be if was a Protestant? He started the Lutheran church, that is protestant. protestant is anything against catholic

Other way around!My bad.

I can't remember who started the battle within the reformation,but I know the Catholics killed a lot of Protestants during that time.

true, so did protestants, when they found out the real truth.

So who was right.Was one section of Christianity realy wrong or being controlled by the devil as their opponents said?And if so would you say that it's still true to this day?

the catholics were wrong because they taught false teachings, the protestants were wrong because they didn't know how to handle the situation. catholics still don't like protestants, despite the protestants don't feel the same way.

Originally posted by mr.smiley
Most of it somewhere between 1400-1500.Some was Catholic,some was Protestant.Martin Luther showed a lot of distaste for women (as did most Christians at the time who where in a posistion of power).

Martin Luther King?

Martin Luther wasnt the only on in oposition to the Vatican he just happen to be one who got famous due to his 95 theses put on the door of the castle church at Wittenberg in 1517. With or without ML the reformation would have happened but it might have come at a later stage than it did

Originally posted by cking
evil spirits don't get tired like us flesh and bone. They simply think it is fun to go around creating chaos for people. temptations don't have to occur from Satan but humans as well. Satan tempted Jesus when he was alone for 40 days without water or food. and Satan used the bible against Jesus only this time to twist it around. here is a verse in Matthew chapter four verse one through eleven. The the spirit led Jesus into the desert to be tempted by the devil. Jesus ate nothing for 40 days and nights. After this, he was very hungry. The devil came to Jesus to tempt him. The devil said, "If you are the son of god, tell these rocks to become bread." Jesus answered, "It is written in the scriptures, A person does not live only by eating bread. But a person lives by everything the lord says." Then the devil led Jesus to the holy city or Jerusalem. He put Jesus on a very high place of the temple. The devil said, "If you are the son of God, jump off. It is written in the scriptures, He has put his angels in charge of you. They will catch you with their hands. And you will not hit your foot on a rock. Jesus answered him, "It also says in the scriptures, Do not test the lord your God. Then the devil led Jesus to the top of a very high mountain. He showed Jesus all the kingdoms of the world. The devil said, "If only you will bow down and worship me, I will give you all these things." Jesus answered to the devil, "Go away from me Satan! It is written in the scriptures, you must worship the lord your God. Serve only him!" So the devil left Jesus. And then some angels came to Jesus and helped him. This happened after Jesus was starting his ministry. Satan tempted him so he would bypass the cross and mankind will continue to be doomed and used very good verses to try and trick him. Satan does the same thing in Churches and he tells them that the bible is wrong don't go to Christ, try and save yourself, God is wrong, he doesn't love you, everyone hates you. The bible is nothing more than just man made, it doesn't make sense, go and and find inner strength in yourself, for salvation is in humankind. Satan will says this to all people and he will twist the gospel around and get people away from Christ. So uses other religions against jesus and his church. you cannot imagine how powerful satan has in all human life. But God still controls him. The spirit world is alot more powerful than the flesh world. people don't realize this because they don't see them. When satan fell he is in command of one-third of the angels of heaven and when he fell on the earth the fallen angels came also. in a spiritual sense satan right now is the king of this world, for jesus says so, but not for long when jesus will arrive with his 1,000 year reign and satan will be chained and bound. satan does control what a certain country does in a religious matter, but the financial stuff is left to the flesh. He might say to one fallen angel and say, "Go and and twist the gospel around in Europe and tempt them to only follow the Buddhist religion. This way we can get back at God." to another angel, "Go to America and watch and listen to what the Christan's are saying and arguing about this verse, and tempt them into saying that by Good works man will find salvation, not christ." If you still thing satan isn't real, just look outside for yourselves and the evidence is right in front of your face, look at what he has done. If jesus was the king right now sin will never exist and people will never be hateful like they are right now. Since people only listen to what satan has to say instead of christ, then they will act like him in every way instead of christ. Satan didn't get a high position in heaven for nothing. Satan has no problem leading people to false truths and lies. Satan knows what is in the scripture and he knows what is happening in the Church. Some people say oh, satan is never in the Church, wrong! satan is there because he wants to find the right time to twist the word around and deceive the Christians. if a pastor doesn't really know for sure if what if that scripture says if it is a sin or not, then satan will come in and tempt him into saying and lie to him about this and that. Some people say it is God that is saying that this or that is right, but is only being fooled by Satan.

What the hell man. Curtail your post next time.

"Dow who **** with nor Saint Zeeky shall face a thousand punishments!"

Originally posted by cking
true, so did protestants, when they found out the real truth.

Luther loved the Catholic church..He thought they would be pleased with his findings...I don't think his plan was to start a new denomination.

I'm sure the Catholic church felt that the Protestants were part of the scripture that says..."Some will recede from the faith following doctrines of demons" And the Protestants probably felt the Catholic church was" The Beast that made the whole world follow after it, the one on seven hills."

They are still based on paganism though.

You know there a song called" Lucifer".

Theirs a danzig song calle Iluciferi (maybe spelled wrong).It's a song about the fall of satan.


Son of rebelion
Cool parched lungs
Iluciferi damn to exsistance
Iluciferi my blackness ?????

Warm
I'm on a nine day fall
Ilucifer is Warm
I'm only half way warm


Theirs some of the lyrics.

Originally posted by mr.smiley
Theirs a danzig song calle Iluciferi (maybe spelled wrong).It's a song about the fall of satan.


Son of rebelion
Cool parched lungs
Iluciferi damn to exsistance
Iluciferi my blackness ?????

Warm
I'm on a nine day fall
Ilucifer is Warm
I'm only half way warm


Theirs some of the lyrics.

Sounds like the writer has a thing for him.

Originally posted by debbiejo
The Biblical title Eve means "Mother of All Living" it was translated from an older Kali Ma's title, Jagnmata. In India she was known as Jiva or Ieva. In Assyrian she was titled Mother Womb, Creatress of Destiny, made man and female from the clay.

The first Bible creation myths came from Assyrian versions...which is much older...The Jews copied it...Just like they did with Satan.

Don't you understand....ALL THESE STORIES WERE COPIED.... If one is similar to the other one does not have to come from the other. Assuming Adam and eve were the first man and woman whether it was 600 years ago or whenever all stories would have come after him and would logically have eliments of the truth in them.

Originally posted by mr.smiley
Theirs a danzig song calle Iluciferi (maybe spelled wrong).It's a song about the fall of satan.


Son of rebelion
Cool parched lungs
Iluciferi damn to exsistance
Iluciferi my blackness ?????

Warm
I'm on a nine day fall
Ilucifer is Warm
I'm only half way warm


Theirs some of the lyrics.

No, I was talking about the song by Jay-Z.

Originally posted by markie
If one is similar to the other one does not have to come from the other. Assuming Adam and eve were the first man and woman whether it was 600 years ago or whenever all stories would have come after him and would logically have eliments of the truth in them.


That's true.However,that doesn't mean the first man and woman where actualy christian.

Originally posted by Freaky Zeeky
No, I was talking about the song by Jay-Z.



I know.I was just showing you another one!

No one want to talk about the devil no more?

why should we talk about a biblical fright

Satan is the most tragic figure ever!

He was created only to be damned - if god is all knowing and all seeing, then he must have known and saw that Satan would disobay.

There is also something really sinister about the Judeo-Christian and Muslim God. He didnt destroy Satan, he just let them be while he distroy the human kind.

Hmmm....

there is indeed a God and a Satan, he was Gods cheif praise angel but in Gods character of being just he also gave the angels free will and the capacity for sin in order to make the choice.. He decided to rebel and has ever since tried to destroy the one thing God loves .............. us .

And just as the angels had free will , so do we , to believe it or not to believe it . When we die we will know the truth, and for some it will be too late . becuase God is above all things HOLY.

Originally posted by mysparrow
there is indeed a God and a Satan,

I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things." (Isaiah 45:7)


Why would a mighty god want to create evil?...Satan is a man made image...not a true character.

Originally posted by finti
hysterical...................oh if there was a sataan and it was this gods nemesis . Satan do as it pleases without asking this god a thing

he to be a nemesis he must be God's equal, to which God has none. He is St. Michael's nemesis. But Satan dosn't "ask God For permission, he tries to "gamble" with him.

God and Satan are laughing at us right now. Saying " These stupid humans are debating again." While they are playing chess and drinking scotch at god's house.

Well I wouldn't say that....

well satan is gods equal since satan challenge god all the time

Originally posted by AOR
he to be a nemesis he must be God's equal, to which God has none. He is St. Michael's nemesis. But Satan dosn't "ask God For permission, he tries to "gamble" with him.


OH, they play poker.......Now, it's making more since...

well I wouldn't say that. But God has faith in our abilities, like we have faith in him (for those who believe.) God than, to prove of our abilities to satan, allows him to "test" us. In the book of Job, when Satan first "gambled" with God he said that Job wouldn't be faithful if he didn't have material good. So God let Satan take it away, and Job was still faithful. Again Satan continue to add that Job wouldn't be faithful without his loving wife and children, so God let Satan take that away. Even in his most grim hour Job still remained faithful, but Satan still persisted. He said Job wouldn't be faithful without his good health, so God allowed sickness to enter into Job. When Satan ran out of ways to test Job, Job in the end remained faithful and God won the bet. He returned everything to Job 100 fold.

Originally posted by finti
well satan is gods equal since satan challenge god all the time

Satan is not God's equal. He is a created being just like man. He was formally an Angel of heaven..known as Lucifer..who fell from God's Grace/Love, upon challenging God's authority.

Why did he challenge God's Authority? Well I can't directly answer that question but many reasons come to my mind. I believe he wanted to be God, unfortunately he didn't realize..that being "God" isn't just about "power/majesty..but also about love/servitude.
As Christ himself showed us..the more power one has..the bigger responsability they have in taking care of the needs of others.

As punishment for his actions Lucifer was cast out of heaven..and forced to dwell on the earth. Apparently after being cast out, God enabled him to have some sort of Dominion/Authority over the earth. It was at that point when man was created...and you all know the story from there.

The story of Lucifer being the devil is a misconception. In the book of Isaiah verse 14:12-17 is part of a parable Isaiah for saw the children of Israel saying, that whole vision was about the fall of the Babylonian king, the word Satan in Hebrew translates to adversary,accuser, rival, or opponent. It is used 33 times in the Old testament 17 of those times in the book of jobs which is the onle time Satan becomes a character "ha-Satan" or the adversary which god sent to test jobs nothing more all that other crap is just christian's misconception as always

Originally posted by whobdamandog
Satan is not God's equal. He is a created being just like man. He was formally an Angel of heaven..known as Lucifer..who fell from God's Grace/Love, upon challenging God's authority.

Why did he challenge God's Authority? Well I can't directly answer that question but many reasons come to my mind. I believe he wanted to be God, unfortunately he didn't realize..that being "God" isn't just about "power/majesty..but also about love/servitude.
As Christ himself showed us..the more power one has..the bigger responsability they have in taking care of the needs of others.

As punishment for his actions Lucifer was cast out of heaven..and forced to dwell on the earth. Apparently after being cast out, God enabled him to have some sort of Dominion/Authority over the earth. It was at that point when man was created...and you all know the story from there.


wudnt it be better just to admit that you dont know instead of justifying by way of assumptions.

wasnt lucifer formerly sameal in some traditions.

Originally posted by leonheartmm
wasnt lucifer formerly sameal in some traditions.

Lucifer means morning star in latin, most likely it derived from ancient sun worship.

i know it means morning star. but im saying. before he rebelled he is in some traditions known as the archangel sameal. ofcourse these views are not shared by the new churches or islam etc.

He is in the lilith legends.

HE IS IN MANY OLDER RELGIONS AND BELIEVES


Doesn't make it true.............Unless you find your own peronal one....hahhaahha

even though i dont believe in god, i do like the idea of occult etc. maybe its just the vertigo comics getting to my head.

Every time you flush, your turds fall onto Satin in hell.

Originally posted by leonheartmm
even though i dont believe in god, i do like the idea of occult etc. maybe its just the vertigo comics getting to my head. From what I've read and heard in a lecture once, much of the occult used to be considered a science at one time, that was pushed out and went more underground.

Originally posted by debbiejo
From what I've read and heard in a lecture once, much of the occult used to be considered a science at one time, that was pushed out and went more underground.


I heard that too it's considered a pseudoscience now.

There is no hell....dammit!

Seriously, I dont think people need a Satin or a devel to tempt them into doing bad things....we are quite capaple of sinning all by our selves.

Mmmmmmmmmmmmm sin........

I agree Mmmmmmm........

^Good and evil are found in all things including God.

He's going to strike you dead and send you straight to hell for saying that Shaky.

Oh yeah, I forgot....

There is no hell......Dammit!

Originally posted by blackhat
He's going to strike you dead and send you straight to hell for saying that Shaky.

Oh yeah, I forgot....

There is no hell......Dammit!

And there is no way I could offend God. God is complete, and does not have human emotions.

I totally agree, I was trying to be funny

YEAH!..........Where's our antichrist!!!!

Must be slippin off drinkin a beer!

I really think you will be surprised if you look in the bottom of the klenex box.....there's a klenes fairy in there

That's where god is..............

Well, I suppose your right, since God is everywhere, he'd also be there

as i havent read ALL the posts as i was faaar too lazy to do something of the sort...

I believe there is a hell, though it is not of the same uhh realm if you may, as "Lucifer" was cast out of heaven at the end of "The war in Heaven" he had lead the rebellion and blah blah blah anyways hell would not be eternal punishment and never will be, as why would "Lucifer" punish those who sinned against god, it is infact confused with the Purgatory which is noted to be where your sins are burned from you, and such if you ask for forgiveness before death, hell itself would be... colder by quite alot, and through Budhist meditation i experianced a VERY cold feeling in the soles of my feet, which was according to the man who was told me about it... what hell was supposed to be where you felt hell, as you know there are known to be 7 Hells and each one is different, your death if all of this god and devil thing is true more of a... a recruitment of the sort to show who you prefer, also most of it has been exagerated to deplete the Pagan religions of their power so as the church would take over.

in astral taveling beliefs, earth is hell, when we die we progress to a higher plane of existence, or if we have been real bad, we go down to a lower plane. we dont get tridents in the ass and flames though.
I believe in the devil but not the christian concept of him as a horned thing, as thats the pre christian image of baphomet or pan designed by the church to portray the pagans as evil.

All go back to where we came from...........not separate places imo.

We all go back to rot...in the dirt, unless your cremated...then you can skip the rotting step

Ok.............then see you/talk to you after.............


I am as sure of this as the sleeve on my shirt.

Are you wearing a tank top?

Ahhhhhhhhhhhhh......................wouldn't that damn you to think so???

I'm just questioning the presence of these alleged sleeves

AS with any sleeve preserved, it's in the mind of the beholder.

Do you always perceive sleeves?

Only when I where them, yet I try to understand when others say they are wearing them, when I see nothing...

According to Biblical teachings Satan is but a part of the forces of evil. The many demons of hell do most of the work.

True. Also, satan heads those demonic forces.

Also true.

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
True. Also, Satan heads those demonic forces. NO! there is no Satan!! It's taken from mythology........Lucifer is never said to be Satan, if I remember scripture right. In fact everyone was called "Satan" during this time period (Wars of the Jews,...Josephus)....If you differed from certain teaching you were filled with Satan...........There IS NO HELL...get over it!!.

Yes, Venus is the "Morning Star"....Astronomy was big back then...

Thats because the stars (meaning planets) were the etherial beyond. And they moved which made them way cooler than the "celestial sphere"

Ancient1: Hey, Venus rises in a week.
Ancient2: Time for War!

i think he exists but i think he exists for purgatory reasons, if no one is sure of were your supposed to go you get sent back and satan or Lucifer gets to work on you to try and make you sin, i think it's up to you individually to resisit this and try to make good of the time givven to you.
Now having said that i think he exists but probably not in the form that we imagine, it could very well be that he's from another religion, it could be the islamic version we deal with when we die, i mean who's to know which religion is right and true or are they all part of Gods plan to apeal to the different peoples of the world but the fundimetals are or must be the same.

Lucifer symbolizes the birth of the universe, thats why lucifer mean 'light bearer' and thats why it is associated to Venus the "morning star", but it was twisted over time.

Light bearer and venus all refer to birth or creation. Venus is associated to birth and creation, and Lucifer is a personification of Venus. The greek name of Venus, 'Phosphorous' also means 'light bearer'

Here's a nice point for ya all: Lucifer, Satan & Beelzebub are different beings in religion. They are all different Fallen Angels.

i dont think God or Satan excist in any way shape or form

but if God excists then there is as much reason to belive Satan is since its all based on belief anyway, there is no possible facts for either, apart from blaming acts on them, "i stabbed this guy coz Satan made me", " I rescued a dog from the river because God would look kindly upon this act", those sort of things have no proof or evidence, but then neither do God or Satan

infact by reading a lot of these posts in these forums, it sounds like God is the evil one, Satan is the good guy and God is a dark entity who is making us pray to him and such like an arrogent being

I agree with you. But attribute good = God, bad = Satan?

well God is usually looked upon as "good" and Satan as "bad" ofcourse its all a diffrence point of view and diffrent human morales

Not really. Satan never did anything bad. It's just a hangover from old Christian values.

Originally posted by The Grey Fox
Not really. Satan never did anything bad. It's just a hangover from old Christian values.

Seen that film with Johnny Depp about the devil. Very interseting. Lucifer was just another diety. Much more interesting. All God does is bully you.