Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.

one of my friends said that Henri Ducard was actually Ras Al Ghul and that Ken Watanabe's character was a decoy. He said it was obvious in the film. I didnt catch that. i am also into comics but have not read a lot of batman. from what i have seen isnt Ras Al Ghul obviously asian not french. did they change that for the movie or is he incorrect.

The answer is given during Bruce's birthday celebration in Wayne mansion. Pay close attention when the lady introduces Ra's and observe Bruce's reaction as well as Ducard's conversation.

Originally posted by jimmy986
from what i have seen isnt Ras Al Ghul obviously asian not french.

Middle-eastern in the comic books, actually. And yes, Ducard was really Ra's.

Originally posted by Gregory
Middle-eastern in the comic books, actually. And yes, Ducard was really Ra's.

when I learned that Bruce was trained by Ra...I saw red

ok now that someone has started a thread on this subject....

....so who was waatanabe playing? another baddie that will come back in a later film? why did ra's do this? I don't get it.

the second time I watched the movie, I heard the word "immortality" used at his party right before the end. apparently in the comics ra's is immortal. are we thinking he is/was supposed to be in this movie?

enquiring minds want to know.

yeah Ra has the larzus pit....it makes him seemingly immortal

Originally posted by Sileas
ok now that someone has started a thread on this subject....

....so who was waatanabe playing? another baddie that will come back in a later film? why did ra's do this? I don't get it.

the second time I watched the movie, I heard the word "immortality" used at his party right before the end. apparently in the comics ra's is immortal. are we thinking he is/was supposed to be in this movie?

enquiring minds want to know.
Ken Watanabe is merely a Ra's decoy. Ra's used the decoy to protect his identity from people who are unworthy of completion of his program.

It's obvious since the first moment Ducard appears in the movie that he's Ras' Al Ghul.
Look at him:

http://www.omelete.com.br/imagens/cinema/news/batman_begins/ducard.jpg http://www.tmsdancer.com/ken_watanabe/photos/batman_begins/ras_al_ghul3.gif http://www.splashcomics.de/images/portraits/charaktere/whoiswho_ras_1.jpg

Not if you didn't follow the comics enough to know who Ra's Al Ghul was.

Ken Watanabe in my opinion just plays Uub. Ra's number one henchmen.

IMO Ken was Ubu. Though it would of been great to hear him call Batman "infidel".

LoL That would have been great. And him saying Infidel wouldnt have giving anything away to anyone other then the big time batman fans. I mean a normal movie goer wouldnt have even noticed.

so did they explain why they had Ubu/Watanabe sit on the throne.....be the one to lead the "coming of age" ceremony for Bruce, be the one to fight Bruce in that scene (I guess to defend the REAL Ras?)? I know it's to trick us, but what's your interpretation of why the real Ras did it?

so is the name ducard a fake identity? or is Ra's Al Ghul is nickname

Fake Identity, apparently. Henry Ducard is a completely different character in the comics.

Henri Ducard wasn't even the one to teach Bruce martial arts anyway, that was Kinigri. Ducard taught Bruce manhunting skills. I guess they just called the character Ducard to throw the bigger fans off.

It wasn't obvious to me either. I didn't realise that Ducard was Al Ghul in the movie until I came here.

Maaaan......i would've payed good money to see Ubu smack Bale over the head and say "Infidel" but that would've given away a lot of the mistery to the older Batman fans.

And yeah, i realized Ducard was Ra's Al Ghul, not just because of the way he looked, but also because of the way he talked to Batman/bruce

~wickerman~

And just to add in the film Ducard dose teach him man hunting skills as well as stealth, Bruce already knows martial arts at this point in the movie, see him defend him self in the chineese prison?

So is Ra's Al Ghul dead and how did he die if he's dead?I haven't seen the movie yet.

"Death" by train. But, in the novel, there is no body, therefore his followers found the body. Lazarus pit.

Originally posted by Mr.Legend
And just to add in the film Ducard dose teach him man hunting skills as well as stealth, Bruce already knows martial arts at this point in the movie, see him defend him self in the chineese prison?

trying to place this in my head just right......does Bruce get into that prison right after having learned how to become an escape artist from Zatarrra and martial arts skills in Japan? (yes, i'm using tas )

~wickerman~

I just want to know one thing......do people actuallly WATCH a movie when they go see one? Or at least listen to it??

It's pretty obvious Neeson is Ra's, Wantanabee is a decoy. Bruce even says Neeson is Ra's and Neeson says he keeps his real identity a secret...not to mention Scarecrow saying he is working for Ra's. Geez people....pay attention when you see a film!

Ra's is NOT asian...never was. I hated that when I first saw who they had cast...but when I found out it was Neeson...I was like "Damn, he does look just like him! Cool!"

Even if you don't read the comics...which you should ....Ras is in B:TAS so if you have the DVDs or Boomerang..you can see him there. Though they pronounce his name differently there.

Originally posted by Wickerman
trying to place this in my head just right......does Bruce get into that prison right after having learned how to become an escape artist from Zatarrra and martial arts skills in Japan? (yes, i'm using tas )

~wickerman~


I am pretty sure that wasn't how it went in the comics and it's pretty obvious Zatanna has nothing to do with this film...by the way in TAS it was her dad...not her...that taught Bruce. (If you were referring to her dad..my bad, I forget his name)

I imagine he studied martial arts all over the world before he got locked up. He traveled all over, being a criminal to see how they think and probably studied Martial Arts his whole life at prep schools and the like. Plus he was gone for 7 years!! He didn't spend the entire time with Ra's and the League of Shadows.

Originally posted by Kieralinn

Even if you don't read the comics...which you should ....Ras is in B:TAS so if you have the DVDs or Boomerang..you can see him there. Though they pronounce his name differently there.

I have. I've seen both "The Demon's Quest" episodes countless times, seen showdown as well from the 4th season....and i believe there was one in the 3rd season as well. I know my tas. And yeah, they pronounced it something like Raysh. But my question still wasn't answered.

~wickerman~

Originally posted by Kieralinn
I am pretty sure that wasn't how it went in the comics and it's pretty obvious Zatanna has nothing to do with this film...by the way in TAS it was her dad...not her...that taught Bruce. (If you were referring to her dad..my bad, I forget his name)

I imagine he studied martial arts all over the world before he got locked up. He traveled all over, being a criminal to see how they think and probably studied Martial Arts his whole life at prep schools and the like. Plus he was gone for 7 years!! He didn't spend the entire time with Ra's and the League of Shadows.

Her father's name was Zatarra, which is why i said Zatarra no prob. though. And yeah, he did study all over the world, but the most obvious refferences are to Japan. And the 7 years are supposed to include the time since he left Gotham till he returns AFAIK, so yeah, not just the League of Shadows

~wickerman~

I thought that might be his name after I wrote that.

I just assume Bruce knew most of his skills already when he got to Ra's. He still has more to go...like the detective skills and the chemistry and forensics knowledge. He has a way to go before he is like the Batman from the comics, or that one's closest counterpart, the JLU one.

I have a feeling in the next film we will have a full bat-cave and a more skilled Batman than this film.

I also think Ra's may not be dead....that's the way it is in the novel. They may have cut the scene where they don't find a body because it didn't test good or the suits wanted it gone. You know the suits Hopefully we will get a director's cut DVD with some missing scenes included.

By the way....don't miss JLU tonight folks!!! Some of my all time favorite DCAU Batman quotes and moments! Love this ep!

Originally posted by Kieralinn
I thought that might be his name after I wrote that.

I just assume Bruce knew most of his skills already when he got to Ra's. He still has more to go...like the detective skills and the chemistry and forensics knowledge. He has a way to go before he is like the Batman from the comics, or that one's closest counterpart, the JLU one.

I have a feeling in the next film we will have a full bat-cave and a more skilled Batman than this film.

I also think Ra's may not be dead....that's the way it is in the novel. They may have cut the scene where they don't find a body because it didn't test good or the suits wanted it gone. You know the suits Hopefully we will get a director's cut DVD with some missing scenes included.

By the way....don't miss JLU tonight folks!!! Some of my all time favorite DCAU Batman quotes and moments! Love this ep!

No prob. The whole zatanna/zatarra thing is confusing as hell . And yeah, he didn't die in the novel, and given the vast number of Lazarus pits, i suppose he's still kicking. however, i doubt he'll be in the next movie. Awww feck.....i don't think i get JLU over here.....meh......

~wickerman~

Originally posted by Joseph_Kerr
"Death" by train. But, in the novel, there is no body, therefore his followers found the body. Lazarus pit.

And are going to bring him back from the dead,

That's what Lazurus pits are good for, among other things.

Yes Ducard and Ra's al Ghul are the same person. Ken Wantanabe's character was a decoy as the other bald fellow introduced to Bruce Wayne in the birthday party scene. In the film there is no Lazarus pit nor any mention of it. In the film Ra's al Ghul poses Machiavellian sort of immortality. The stories of his "deaths" spread via rumor and yet Ra's al Ghul reappears, apparently reborn to lead his League of Shadows (ie; League of Assassins) once again. A novel and imaginative plot device to say the least. But why? Why not tell the story as it is in the comic book it is adapted from? Because you've already heard it a thousand times. That's why comic book films are fun. Because we get to see the stories we've read over and again in a new light. It's these sort of changes in story that give our beloved characters a new life. I was genuinely surprised with the Ducard/ Ra's al Ghul storyline. Hopefully more screenwriters and directors will take a cue from Chris Nolan and David Goyer in future comic book adaptations.

So the Lazurus pit can bring anyone back from the dead?They should have used it on the decoy Ra's Al Ghul.

Originally posted by Zod4Life
So the Lazurus pit can bring anyone back from the dead?They should have used it on the decoy Ra's Al Ghul.

I'm not sure how useful it is to a million chunks of flesh

~wickerman~

hmmmmmmmmm,well,it's worth a try and they'll definately try to bring back their Leader.

during the party i realized that neeson was ras and ken was ubu. i didnt like this, since ras was so in-your-face and cocky. he had that kind of "im ras al ghul im better than you!!!!haha" attitude. and since when did he fear assassination attempts?

OOP!

http://www.rasalghul.co.uk/database/characters_details.asp?id=26

WHAT ABOUT THIS THING!??

Originally posted by OtterVomit
Fake Identity, apparently. Henry Ducard is a completely different character in the comics.

He was in the comics...and was revealed to really be Ra's Al Ghul later?

Originally posted by SpyCspider
so did they explain why they had Ubu/Watanabe sit on the throne.....be the one to lead the "coming of age" ceremony for Bruce, be the one to fight Bruce in that scene (I guess to defend the REAL Ras?)? I know it's to trick us, but what's your interpretation of why the real Ras did it? To defend the real Ra's and protect his identity. **** that league of scaliwags is trained well. Protect their leaders true identity until the whole house burns down. What a great man!

Originally posted by Kieralinn
I just want to know one thing......do people actuallly WATCH a movie when they go see one? Or at least listen to it??No. I look at the casting.

Originally posted by Kieralinn
I imagine he studied martial arts all over the world before he got locked up. He traveled all over, being a criminal to see how they think and probably studied Martial Arts his whole life at prep schools and the like. Plus he was gone for 7 years!! He didn't spend the entire time with Ra's and the League of Shadows. Yeah! He travled the world and they did not even show it. After hearing bitching dorks bitching about how BATMAN's origins are never thoroughly explored throughout the releasings of the first four films I was like "Man...this better get everybody to shut the **** up". Jesus!

Originally posted by Kieralinn
I just assume Bruce knew most of his skills already when he got to Ra's. He still has more to go...like the detective skills and the chemistry and forensics knowledge. He has a way to go before he is like the Batman from the comics, or that one's closest counterpart, the JLU one. BATMAN BEGINS is a new mix on BATMAN like THE BATMAN cartoon show which are both, or so I have read, very loosely based off of BATMAN YEAR ONE. It is like how the 1989 film was loosely based off of THE DARK KNIGHT RETURNS. People were bitching about how it was not like the campy Adam West style BATMAN. Before that we have THE "BAT-MAN" appearing in Detective Comics that is trying to survive in a dieing industry before being saved by "THE SENSATIONAL CHARACTER OF 1940 ROBIN THE BOY WONDER" which tripled sales because BATMAN had no one to interact with up until that time. There was no Alfred Beagle/Pennyworth, THE JOKER, or CATWOMAN. Going back to BATMAN's roots we find two men named Bob Kane and Bill Finger trying to make some money. Warner Brothers continues the search for more money.

how did Bruce know that Ducard was Ra's Al Ghul? He said "Or are they cheap parlor tricks to conceal your true identity, Ra's?

Interesting how Zatarra is the one of the names of the main character in the Count of Montecristo, which is based on a prison escape...

if ras is dead in the movies, he dead for the rest of the film franchise. end of story. i like ras character too, but haveing him live throught that trainwreck would be stupid. and not "realistic". plus, that means no new villians for future sequels. and that would S.U.C.K.

dude, ducard and wantanabe are both ra's al ghul right?....ducards the orginal one from the comics and wantanabe is "ra's al ghul immortal", or as ducard says...and remember he was at the party...just with his mustache cut off from hangin off his chin....cuz i read from the batman begins visual guide book that ra's al ghul(wantanabe), is like an immortal who is hundreds of years old and has fought crime his whole life and cannot be killed

Originally posted by braz
dude, ducard and wantanabe are both ra's al ghul right?....ducards the orginal one from the comics and wantanabe is "ra's al ghul immortal", or as ducard says...and remember he was at the party...just with his mustache cut off from hangin off his chin....cuz i read from the batman begins visual guide book that ra's al ghul(wantanabe), is like an immortal who is hundreds of years old and has fought crime his whole life and cannot be killed

well, actually, ras CAN be killed, hes like an elf in LOTR's, immortal, but he can be killed in battle like anyone else. watanabe is NOT ras al ughl, only his decoy, Ubu. and he died. for real. he did not turn up at bruces party, that was a member of the league of shadows. neeson turned out to be the real ras al guhl, and he died in the tran crash. for real.

does anyone notice this? the real Ras hints at something

when bruce is introduced to Ra's(new decoy) in his mansion, he says "you're not Ra's Al Ghul, i watched him die..."

then the real Ras, says "But is Ras al ghul immortal? are his methods supernatural?"

doesnt that make you wonder

It said Ras Al Ghul is Ken Watanabe in the cast. **** you.

Originally posted by Kieralinn
I imagine he studied martial arts all over the world before he got locked up. He traveled all over, being a criminal to see how they think and probably studied Martial Arts his whole life at prep schools and the like. Plus he was gone for 7 years!! He didn't spend the entire time with Ra's and the League of Shadows.
Originally posted by Kieralinn
I just assume Bruce knew most of his skills already when he got to Ra's. He still has more to go...like the detective skills and the chemistry and forensics knowledge.
You imagined and assumed all of that? How long do you IMAGINE it took for Bruce to become a ninja assassin?

Originally posted by sevenman
He travled the world and they did not even show it. After hearing bitching dorks bitching about how BATMAN's origins are never thoroughly explored throughout the releasings of the first four films I was like "Man...this better get everybody to shut the **** up". Jesus!

BATMAN BEGINS is a new mix on BATMAN like THE BATMAN cartoon show which are both, or so I have read, very loosely based off of BATMAN YEAR ONE. It is like how the 1989 film was loosely based off of THE DARK KNIGHT RETURNS.
I'm confused by this... they didn't show Bruce Wayne dedicating years of his life to training his mind and body, but the audience is supposed to pick up on this anyway? And how is Batman 89 based on THE DARK KNIGHT RETURNS?

I'm truly amazed at how many people think Batman Begins is so true to the character. For me the best thing about Batman is that he dedicated himself to becoming an Olympic class athlete and the world's greatest detective, but that's not what I get from watching this movie. In this movie Bruce Wayne is a self-loathing butthead who would be rotting in a prison somewhere if Ras al Ghul hadn't come along and trained him to be a ninja assassin. Sorry folks, but that's not the Batman I know.

I think Ken Watanabe suits to play Ra's better than the others did.