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Well?

Which Vader?

With the suit.

Well I think Kyle could do it... Anyway Vader lost some power after duel on Mustafar... After all Vader did seem pathetic in both force power and the mastery with his lightsaber when he fought Luke...

Vader is extremely powerful with the force though his lightsaber skills (if you could even call them that) suck miserably that being said in this situation vader just chokes kyles and laughs then goes clubbing with sids
where they watch clone troopers doing the can-can,

Vader:And I thought they could provide nothing better then second rate entertainment.
Sidious:what do you call this?
Vader:third rate entertainment, ha!

You have to be kidding... Kyle Katarn was much more powerful than ROTJ Luke Skywalker... He could take Vader down and still make it before the 7/11 closes...

RotJ luke wasn't more powerful with the force, the only reason he won is because he spazzed like gary coleman on riddilin.

Kyle is more powerful than Luke. If you remember, in Jedi Outcast, when Luke came to Kyle when alot of clone troopers were attacking him, and they were standing back to back reflecting fire. Luke couldn't kill 7 of them... Kyle had to kill all of them. And Darth Vader wouldn't be able to force choke Kyle. It only works on the weak ones, Kyle would just use force push to push back Vader, or just use force absorb.

Doesn't matter Vader would still win... His control of the force is greater and his lightsaber skills (although they suck in the movies) are not that bad either...

The only reason he lost from Luke was because he tripped over his cape after deciding he didn't want to fight back on Endor... Vader never wanted to kill Luke he would have no problem with killing Kyle.

what are you talkin about luke is way more powerful kyle.

Vader has better control over the force and even if we're talking mech vader his swordsmanship is still good enough to hold kyle off at leat long enough to get in some good force attacks.

Kyle's force control is enough to match Vader's. Dont you remember that Kyle drained power from the Alley of The Jedi???? And after all that, he had beaten some serious bad a$$ sith. About 3 or 4 not counting all the reborns in Jedi Academy and Jedi Outcast. Kyle's swordmanship is triple the power of Vaders.

Okay first time you wrote I thought it could be a mistake but now... Its Valley not Alley... Anyways Vader.... Vader was something that Kyle could only dream off. He had a far greater control of the force and force attacks can be blocked hundreds of items flying at Kyle's head could not be blocked by him. Vader would eventually overcome by sheer force power.

By that time Kyle would outsaber him!

Originally posted by xxxpoppunker182
what are you talkin about luke is way more powerful kyle. You do know I'm talking about ROTJ Luke not NJO...

Vader.....either one.

Darth Vader's mastery and experience would win over Kyle. Darth Vader's attacks are not that bad...they may be a little slow, but they are pretty powerful. Kyle's attacks are not that great either...and anyway ROTJ Luke Skywalker could beat Kyle as well, because (If I'm not mistaken) GL said Luke in ROTJ was equal to Vader.

With suit....
Vader
With out suit....
Vader

Kyle Katarn sucks

Kyle is stronger then ROTJ Luke because Kyle defeated Desann who Luke couldn't beat.

its a game, they have to make your character the best, even if it makes no sense.

And Vader could take this, all he has to do is leviate a dozens objects and send them at Kyle, there you go, bye-bye Kyle. And to whoever said Kyle is equal in the force to Vader, never. Even after the lava-bath, Vader was above almost every other force user and something that others could only dream of matching. Vader's force abilities compared to Kyles is like comparing a water gun to a nuke, no comparison. And if you bring up valley of the jedi, read the start of this post on how in the video game you have to be able to do everything, even if it makes no sense at all.

kyle katarn is overated darth vader wins

Originally posted by Fishy
Doesn't matter Vader would still win... His control of the force is greater and his lightsaber skills (although they suck in the movies) are not that bad either...

The only reason he lost from Luke was because he tripped over his cape after deciding he didn't want to fight back on Endor... Vader never wanted to kill Luke he would have no problem with killing Kyle.

Vader didn't want to kill Luke but he didn't want to lose either. Luke had him outclassed in every category. The books say it, the movie shows it, and Lucas says it. The entire fight Luke was dominating with ease. Vader had no chance so Kyle would spank him.

KYLE IS A LOOSER FACE IT. WHY DO PEOPLE THINK HE IS SO GOOD. HES SOME WANNABE JEDI!

Again with an idiot posting false crappy opinions. You have no idea how many dark Jedi he's beat do you? hundreds. He's beaten dark Jedi that were nearly Sith lords. Luke had some trouble against a dark Jedi that Kyle later beat. Kyle draws from both sides of the Force, mastering lightning and choke along with many others. Does Vader have lightning? No. Did Vader get his ass whooped by a Jedi knight? Yes. Is kyle a Jedi master? Yes.

luke is the most powerful.. hes the head of the jedi council ... ? and yes he is a jedi master..

I'm saying Luke whooped Vader when he was a Jedi knight. He got far stronger since then. Kyle is a Jedi master. Heck, he defeated Boba Fett before he even had the Force!

Good points Emperor Revan. Oh yeah. Look, Kyle Katarn is like Luke's partner, Kyle is just stronger then Luke. Could Vader use weapons like blasters as masterfully as Kyle? No, Kyle was a former bounty hunter. Now he is a jedi master. Even much more powerful then before. Kyle Katarn has many forcepowers that Vader would never have. Lightning, Absorb, Protect, heck, Kyle can use the force to jump much higher the Vader, and after all that, Kyle uses Style I to fight, the fastest but lightest style. It would completely ow3n Vader.

You guys think Kyle Katarn could take Darth Vader?...Guys c'mon this is like putting ESB Luke against Darth Revan. Kyle is not even a Jedi Master...he might of been in JA, but in JO he got the Force from the Valley of the Jedi...and him defeating Jerec was more of luck I think.

If you guys say Kyle can win over Vader...whats next? Younglings can beat Yoda?

Kyle killed Jerec with ease! Play Dark Forces againa nd you will see it.

And the Kyle Katarn I'm talking in this fight is the Kyle Katarn overall. The last time we saw him was in Jedi Academy, so there. Kyle Katarn is a powerful Jedi Master. He defeated maaaaaaaany sith. And I think Dessan is very close to being the same sith as Vader.

If it's full power mech vader, that would hard to figure out as he'd probably be an okay swordsman if it's when he's young, but old vader is pretty strong in the force...

Originally posted by Darth Plagues
You guys think Kyle Katarn could take Darth Vader?...Guys c'mon this is like putting ESB Luke against Darth Revan. Kyle is not even a Jedi Master...he might of been in JA, but in JO he got the Force from the Valley of the Jedi...and him defeating Jerec was more of luck I think.

If you guys say Kyle can win over Vader...whats next? Younglings can beat Yoda?

This is Kyle as a master. He wasn't even a master when he defeated Jerec and yes he did to it with ease (though I don't know how). Kyle has fought thousands of beings and defeated them all. The only fight he lost is against Desann when he didn't have the Force. He trained Mara, Vader even said the Force is strong with him, etc.

Again, ROTJ Luke whooped Vader with ease as a Jedi knight, then when Luke's a master and much stronger he did have some difficulty against Desann even though the fight wasn't finished. Now Kyle as a Jedi Master defeated Desann. Heck, all he would need is Force lightning, it took maybe 5 seconds of the Emperor's to destroy Vader, maybe 10 seconds of Kyle's...

Originally posted by General Zodiac
Kyle is stronger then ROTJ Luke because Kyle defeated Desann who Luke couldn't beat.
The game was made up, dont use false reference, Kyle sucks thats all too it.

The game is also official so it's just as good as the books or any other EU source.

rotj luke is better than kyle how can you even compare them ?? luke braught his father back to the lightside again, he wasent manipulated to go to the darkside.he faught a gallant battle with vader and he did come out victorious. he was smarter and better. i think that kyle katarn cannot defeat vader it just dozent make sence..but if you think about it, those 1980 style movies were hard to make the lightsaber duels quick, that is the reason why vader fights slow.

Originally posted by Emperor Revan
The game is also official so it's just as good as the books or any other EU source.
well its clearly not a good enough source if Luke got beaten by Desann.

What does Luke have that Kyle doesn't have? Kyle was never manipulated to the dark side he was also smart, that's why he gave away his lightsaber to luke at the end of Darkforces after killing Jeric.

Buddy Kyle Katarn had admitted to be on the Dark Side...play Dark Forces again. "The dark side? I've been there." And the reason he gave his lightsaber to Luke is, because he feared going to the dark side again.

Like said above...How can you compare ROTJ Luke Skywalker to Kyle Katarn? ROTJ Luke Skywalker is equal to Darth Vader (GL said this)...and come on...we know Kyle can't beat Luke, so therefore the same with Vader.

People on this forum have underestimated Darth Vader drastically. Kyle Katarn did not defeat Jerec with ease! What version of "Dark Forces II" have y'all been playing? The fight lasted a good while, Kyle defeating Jerec was more of luck. No its not because Jerec was weak. He had Force abilities that got past Darth Sidious himself.

Just a question thats off the subject...Why didn't either Kyle Katarn or Jedi Master Qu Rhan seek Luke Skywalker's help in the matter? Luke had the ability to make himself a void through the Force (That's why Darth Vader couldn't find him when he was hiding possibly)...He could have done this power and defeated Jerec without even a struggle.

Even better, so Kyle Katarn resisted the Dark Side while being fully drained to it. There was no luck when Kyle defeated Jeric. Kyle was just better than him, in most everything, lightsabre skills, weaponry blaster skills, god even forcepowers since he knew it from both sides. Kyle can beat Luke, so his stronger than Darth Vader.

Originally posted by Darth Plagues
Buddy Kyle Katarn had admitted to be on the Dark Side...play Dark Forces again. "The dark side? I've been there." And the reason he gave his lightsaber to Luke is, because he feared going to the dark side again.

Like said above...How can you compare ROTJ Luke Skywalker to Kyle Katarn? ROTJ Luke Skywalker is equal to Darth Vader (GL said this)...and come on...we know Kyle can't beat Luke, so therefore the same with Vader.

People on this forum have underestimated Darth Vader drastically. Kyle Katarn did not defeat Jerec with ease! What version of "Dark Forces II" have y'all been playing? The fight lasted a good while, Kyle defeating Jerec was more of luck. No its not because Jerec was weak. He had Force abilities that got past Darth Sidious himself.

Just a question thats off the subject...Why didn't either Kyle Katarn or Jedi Master Qu Rhan seek Luke Skywalker's help in the matter? Luke had the ability to make himself a void through the Force (That's why Darth Vader couldn't find him when he was hiding possibly)...He could have done this power and defeated Jerec without even a struggle.

ROTJ Luke is good but he can't beat Jedi master Kyle. And no, Luke didn't lose to Desann, he had a little troubel though and by then he was much stronger than ROTJ. Kyle beat Desann, Jerec, (both of whom had gone through the valley of the Jedi), Boba Fett, a phase 3 dark trooper, and is as strong as Jaden who was able to defeat Marka's spirit who was inside a dark Jedi master's body and even had a sith sword.

Next, Vader is not equal with ROTJ Luke. Read the novel, watch the movie, whatever. Luke owned Vader with ease.

Now let's see, what does Vader have that Kyle doesnt?
Force powers? No, Kyle wins that.
Speed? No, Kyle wins that.
lightsaber skills? No, Kyle wins that too.
Labored breathing? Yes, Vader wins that.

Kyle could just fry him with electricity if nothing else.

Yeah ok...I'm going to go post Yoda vs. Younglings now. I bet you guys would go for the younglings...

Darth Vader is a brilliant strategist and one of the greatest pilots in the galaxy. Vader still possesses his former persona's amazing engineering skills, having overseen the design of the TIE/Advanced fighter. His talent with the lightsaber is legendary. All of these skills are secondary to his incredible mastery of the Force.

Kyle Katarn won't even come close. People on this forum have underestimated Darth Vader drastically. His lightsaber skills are legendary! And his mastery of the Force is incredible! He believed in his own skills so much he denied to put cortosis in his armor suit (Cortosis is a small mineral that can block lightsabers)

Most of you have argued that he was defeated with ease by Luke Skywalker. No he was not...Luke himself is incrediably strong, and how would you feel about murdering your own son in a duel? Vader didn't do his full potential in any of the duels with Luke. In ESB he was trying to capture Luke and had feeling for him then. In ROTJ he had possibly more feeling for him, because he was picking up Luke's presence as he was on the Imperial cruiser traveling to Endor...which even Sidious couldn't feel. Right there that tells us Darth Vader's feelings on the matter were not clear and even later the Emperor asks him..."Are you feelings on the matter clear, Lord Vader?"

Darth Vader purged all the Jedi, but a few, which provided no threat to the Empire anyway. Kyle is not even close to this great Sith Lord...

You're biased. Brilliant strategist? Yeah right. Then why is Tarkin higher than him? one of the greatest pilots, yeah that is right. Legendary lightsaber skills? Old Obi was giving him a good fight. He got beat by his son who was barely a Jedi knight in 40 seconds. Do you see how slow he moves it? Incredible mastery of the Force? From what? he can move objects, choke people, and throw his lightsaber (even though it didn't come back to him.) Kyle can use Force speed, Force lightning, choke people and lift them in the air at the same time, move objects, throw his lightsaber with it coming back to him, heal, mind trick, and force jump.

Uh, did you see episode three? When they made that suit that was the last thing on his mind. Secondly there were no Jedi left basically so why put it there? Thirdly, Vader also believed he could turn Luke and that didn't happen.

Dude, the movies show Luke whooping him, the books say that Luke was stronger, and Lucas says so. No Vader didn't want to kill Luke but Luke didn't want to kill Vader. He was trying even less than Vader was and he won easily.

Purged all the Jedi? Again, have you seen episode three? I saw clones killing all the council members and I saw thousands of clones behind Anakin when he went into the Jedi temple. Sure he killed some younglings and probably a few others but he didn't fight anyone all that powerful.

Stop making up crap and learn this isn't a popularity contest, even if you want someone to be stronger and they're not, you should argue who would actually win. And you haven't given one good reason as to why he would win. You think Kyle would have no chance against Vader yet, look at the poll.

I'm not making this stuff up...I got all that information on Wikipedia.com...the same place where you Emperor Revan get your information on Darth Revan...good job in slamming your own source!

Darth Vader wins, because I say agian...

Darth Vader is a brilliant strategist and one of the greatest pilots in the galaxy. Vader still possesses his former persona's amazing engineering skills, having overseen the design of the TIE/Advanced fighter. His talent with the lightsaber is legendary. All of these skills, however, are secondary to his incredible mastery of the Force.

Kyle Katarn won't even come close. People on this forum have underestimated Darth Vader drastically. His lightsaber skills are legendary! And his mastery of the Force is incredible! He believed in his own skills so much he denied to put cortosis in his armor suit (Cortosis is a small mineral that can block lightsabers), which he was given the oppritunity. (Look on Wikipedia Emperor Revan)

Most of you have argued that he was defeated with ease by Luke Skywalker. No he was not...Luke himself is incrediably strong, and how would you feel about murdering your own son in a duel? Vader didn't do his full potential in any of the duels with Luke. In ESB he was trying to capture Luke and had feeling for him then. In ROTJ he had possibly more feeling for him, because he was picking up Luke's presence as he was on the Imperial cruiser traveling to Endor...which even Sidious couldn't feel. Right there that tells us Darth Vader's feelings on the matter were not clear.

You fool, I don't get anything about Revan from Wikipedia except where it says "considered by many to be the most powerful Sith lord of all time". I knew all the rest about him.

I can see you have no sense of logic and if you couldn't come up with better reasons than that you might as well of posted for Kyle since it's saying "I'm a Vader supporter and this other guy has shut down all my reasons but I can't think of any others and I don't want to change my mind."

All I can say leaving is you're a stupid newb hypocrite that acts like a spoiled child. You won't listen to others, your mind can't be changed, and you think you're always right. Later newb.

Wow...should I really waste my time in getting mad on your insults? Call me what you want, but I don't care. You found something on Darth Revan at wikipedia that claims he's "one of the strongest Sith to ever live"...so I get something off the same site that supports Darth Vader that says he was powerful. You had no reply to defend Kyle after that so...shut up. Once you run out of something to defend your character with you rely on insults and very poor ones too. "Newb"? Come on lets not be so stupid...I know little kids that can throw insults like that...

Now back on subject. On Wikipedia.com, which relies on facts here is why Darth Vader would win...

Darth Vader is a brilliant strategist and one of the greatest pilots in the galaxy. Vader still possesses his former persona's amazing engineering skills, having overseen the design of the TIE/Advanced fighter. His talent with the lightsaber is legendary. All of these skills, however, are secondary to his incredible mastery of the Force.

(C'mon Emperor Revan...what do you have that can prove Kyle can kill Darth Vader. You used the same site I did to prove something on your character Revan, but now that I use it...it means nothing...very pathetic )

What does Revan have to do with Kyle vs. Vader. Help me out here.

Emperor Revan used Wikipedia.com as a source at one time to say Darth Revan "is one of the strongest Sith Lords of all time"...but now that I use it to prove Darth Vader could win over Kyle, he doesn't want to believe it, so in turn with nothing else to defend Kyle Katarn he throws insults at me. Very poor insults at that.

So Emperor Revan now that you have claimed...

"I can see you have no sense of logic and if you couldn't come up with better reasons than that you might as well of posted for Kyle since it's saying "I'm a Vader supporter and this other guy has shut down all my reasons but I can't think of any others and I don't want to change my mind."

Its more the other way around. I used research to prove Darth Vader would win and is very powerful (Same site you used) and you had nothing else to defend Kyle Katarn with, so you the one that results staying one minded and also results in throwing insults on the matter to substitute you not being able to think of anything that can say Kyle can win. I have given proof and here it is again...

Darth Vader would win, because...

Darth Vader is a brilliant strategist and one of the greatest pilots in the galaxy. Vader still possesses his former persona's amazing engineering skills, having overseen the design of the TIE/Advanced fighter. His talent with the lightsaber is legendary. All of these skills, however, are secondary to his incredible mastery of the Force.

Source: Wikipedia.com (Search there and all this info will be there)

I thought you were talking about Kotor Revan not the user. But you will never know if Kyle would beat Vader or vice versa. After all Vader isn't perfect.

Originally posted by Darth Plagues
Wow...should I really waste my time in getting mad on your insults? Call me what you want, but I don't care. You found something on Darth Revan at wikipedia that claims he's "one of the strongest Sith to ever live"...so I get something off the same site that supports Darth Vader that says he was powerful. You had no reply to defend Kyle after that so...shut up. Once you run out of something to defend your character with you rely on insults and very poor ones too. "Newb"? Come on lets not be so stupid...I know little kids that can throw insults like that...

Now back on subject. On Wikipedia.com, which relies on facts here is why Darth Vader would win...

Darth Vader is a brilliant strategist and one of the greatest pilots in the galaxy. Vader still possesses his former persona's amazing engineering skills, having overseen the design of the TIE/Advanced fighter. His talent with the lightsaber is legendary. All of these skills, however, are secondary to his incredible mastery of the Force.

Oh and you DIDN'T PROVE Vader could beat Kyle. Not by a long shot.
(C'mon Emperor Revan...what do you have that can prove Kyle can kill Darth Vader. You used the same site I did to prove something on your character Revan, but now that I use it...it means nothing...very pathetic )

Are you kidding? What was different from your last post to your first post? It looked like the same stuff to me. Is that a quote from Wikipedia? You really got to tell me that, I thought you were pulling that out of your ass. Anyway, I already have. Read my first post. Vader's slow as hell and get's beat by a Jedi knight. Kyle's a powerful Jedi master that trained Mara, and killed two dark Jedi who were nearly Sith lords. He was stronger than Ragnos' spirit who had posessed a dark Jedi master and had a sith sword. He killed a phase 3 dark trooper and defeated Boba Fett before he even got Force powers. He also got more powerful from when he killed Desann.

Oh and you DID NOT PROVE that Vader could beat Kyle. Not even close.

By the way, using the same logic you just used to "prove" Vader was stronger than Kyle, I can use the same to "prove" Lord Revan is the strongest Sith lord. It doesn't say anything about most powerful on any other Sith lord on the site, including Ragnos. So if you think you "proved" that Vader is stronger than Kyle with Wikipedia alone then you're also "proving" that Revan is the strongest Sith lord of all time.

I'm not denying Kyle Katarn is strong...he is...taking down seven Dark Jedi without any additional training is not a small task. But we must keep in mind Darth Vader may be slow, however he does have very powerful lightsaber talents and strong Force abilities, Wikipedia points this out for us. Kyle could hold his ground as a Jedi Master, but still Darth Vader could come through. Look at everything Darth Vader has done compared to Kyle Katarn...Vader is far greater.

George Lucas states that his injuries on Mustafar (including the severing of all three of his remaining limbs) cost Vader much of his Force potential. Lucas claims that, as a masked and suited Darth Vader, Anakin has roughly 80% the strength of the Emperor. This may have been a great decrease of his potential, but Wikipedia has said Darth Sidious is "The greatest Dark Lord of the Sith"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Darth_Sidious#Dark_Empire

(Read the last sentence under the "Dark Empire" article)

Now I liked your first paragraph. you give thought out reasons and show that Vader does have certain weaknesses and Kyle is powerful. At the very least it would be a good fight.

As for Wikipedia, I can find several faults in it. I never said it was the best source of information and always accurate. I know many things that are false but it is a good source of information none the less. I used its quote because it wasn't always there. It used to say he was one of the most powerful, but now it doesn't. And the "thought by many..." quote is of course, just thought by many, not necessarily the most powerful.

I'm not denying Vader's powerful and I think he can take most Jedi masters, but Kyle uses both sides of the Force and is incredibly powerful. And don't get me wrong, I think it would be a tough fight. As for Sidious being the greatest dark lord of the Sith, that's true, he was the only one to fully take control of the galaxy. He will be the most remembered Sith lord for his accomplishment. But it doesn't say most powerful like Revan.

Emperor Revan, i got your back.

Darth Plagues, you've been reading all those cool things about Vader on that source?

Read this.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kyle_Katarn

It even mentions, that Darth Vader himself, said that Kyle Katarn's potential in force was great. He also sabotaged a Death Star, which is a verrry hard task. He fought Dark Troopers,

2Tidus I have already look up information on Kyle. I always look at both sides, before making a decision...Emperor Revan I know Sidious is not the most powerful Sith Lord I was just pointing out that he's not weak and fragile.

Thanks 2Tidus!

And Plagues: Yeah I know Palpatine isn't weak, I rank him about 8th or so. But I also think Kyle has a little more than 80% of Palpy's power in ROTJ since Palps would've gotten weaker since ROTS.

Well the duel would be close...no matter who wins.

Look people, Kyle could defeat Marco Ragnos. Own him actually. If his apprentice, defeated Marco Ragnos and after that confronted him, Kyle would've won and either killed Jaiden or turn him to the light side if it weren't for the septer. I think it was a cheap shot made by Jaiden with the septer. And I think Marco Ragnos could destroy Darth Vader very easily. Therefore Kyle could destroy Vader.

That was Marka's spirit and we all know that a spirit isn't nearly as strong as the person was when they were alive.

And Plagues: I agree, that's all I was trying to convince you of anyway. I just got irritated when you compared this to Yoda fighting younglings because this fight would be close.

Actually Jaden didn't defeat Marka Ragnos, but defeated Tavion alone...

Approximately four thousand years after the war of Exar Kun, Marka Ragnos's spirit once again returned from beyond the grave, this time summoned by a Sith cult known as the Disciples of Ragnos whose leader was Tavion, Desaan's student. Though this cult was eventually defeated, with Jaden Korr defeating Tavion, Ragnos's ghost escaped back to his tomb on Korriban, where he remains with the rest of the ancient Dark Lords, waiting to arise and threaten the galaxy again.

(Source: Wikipedia)

I was exaggerating when I said the Yoda vs. Younglings thing.

Ragnos' spirit was controlling Tavion. They were much stronger than Tavion alone.

True, but still Marka is still somewhere on Korriban

Oh yes, his spirit survived, but was defeated even in Tavion's body by Jaden Korr.

True.


About Darth Vader being slower tahn most. Yes he was slow, but if you think about it he fought like a true Form V master should.

Form V (also called "the Way of the Krayt Dragon" is a powerful style developed by Form III practitioners that preferred a more offensive angle. The defensive nature of Form III often leads to dangerously prolonged combat. This style came about from combining Forms II and III. Anakin, both as himself and as Darth Vader, Luke Skywalker, and Jedi Master Plo Koon are all practitioners of Form V. Jedi Master Agen Kolar may possibly have been a Form V practitioner since he favoured aggression negotiations.

Form V maintains its existence through having sufficient defensive skills, as derived from Form III, but channeling defense into offense. The example is commonly used that while Form III combatants effortlessly deflect laser bolts, Form V practitioners excel at redirecting the laser bolt toward the opponent. This simultaneously defends the user and efficiently injures the opponent. As well, it employs a basic form of Form II's parries, allowing the user to parry the attempted attack, and counter it. It is different from Form III in the fact that practictioners of Form V will press the assault, using wide, sweeping blows in an attempt to overwhelm the opponent with brute strength. The aggressive philosophy of Form V is the source of many a Jedi's disapproval.

Vader also created his own variant of Form V, where he would use only one hand to strike and defend, and have the other held casually by his side. This can be seen at the start of the duel in The Empire Strikes Back.

With the aggressive but yet refined movements of Form II and the highly defensive postures of Form III, Shien / Djem So has been proven to be an effective style.

(Source: Wikipedia)

Uh, what's your point? We don't know what form Kyle uses.

People were saying that Vader was slower than most, I was just pointing out thats the way he fought.

Kyle probably has his own form, because he had very little Jedi training.

ok. They do have a unique style of fighting and it might help him out.

Kyle has a few forms, if you press the L button (default) it changes the style, it has a small description I don't really remember them, but its probably the most basic forms and a few things about the others. Still he would not have mastered any of those styles.

Blue one is form II yellow one is form IV and red one is form V.
Blue is fast yet offensive and defensive, just like FOrm II. Yellow one is based around jumping, it's most special attacks are swirving your sword when jumping etc, so it's form IV, and red is very agressive and furious, yet slow.

They should've added Style VII.

If i may comment on this debate b/t Vader vs Katarn id like to analyze Vader's power by his duels with his apprentice Starkiller. On Corellia, he tried charging Vader head on and got a table slammed in his face. This is from The Force Unleashed so im not sure how accurate this is but during his fight with vader on the Death Star in your finishing move Starkiller was moving all over the place while Vader was staying in one place getting exhausted, moving to his fight with Darth Sidious he was attacking him head on with his own power and he overpowered Sidious by himself. That being said from looking at that angle it looks like Vader is stronger in the force than Sidious and if thats true than the question then becomes not if Katarn can beat Vader but can Katarn survive long enough to tire Vader out which il voice in my opinion i dont he can as he is no Starkiller in terms of power as Sidious even states that Starkiller is his equal in power.

Originally posted by Galen Marek24
If i may comment on this debate b/t Vader vs Katarn id like to analyze Vader's power by his duels with his apprentice Starkiller. On Corellia, he tried charging Vader head on and got a table slammed in his face. This is from The Force Unleashed so im not sure how accurate this is but during his fight with vader on the Death Star in your finishing move Starkiller was moving all over the place while Vader was staying in one place getting exhausted, moving to his fight with Darth Sidious he was attacking him head on with his own power and he overpowered Sidious by himself. That being said from looking at that angle it looks like Vader is stronger in the force than Sidious and if thats true than the question then becomes not if Katarn can beat Vader but can Katarn survive long enough to tire Vader out which il voice in my opinion i dont he can as he is no Starkiller in terms of power as Sidious even states that Starkiller is his equal in power. You know, if you'd only waited two months to post this, then you could have said you revived a 7 year old thread.

Originally posted by Spidervlad
Blue one is form II yellow one is form IV and red one is form V.
Blue is fast yet offensive and defensive, just like FOrm II. Yellow one is based around jumping, it's most special attacks are swirving your sword when jumping etc, so it's form IV, and red is very agressive and furious, yet slow.

They should've added Style VII.

What are you stupid? Blue is for Jedi Guardian, Green is for Consulate, and Yellow for Sentinel, and Red is for the Sith, Vrook Lamare tells you this in The Knights Of The Old Republic when you go to the Jedi Temple on Tatooine. You should have really played the game by now bro.

Originally posted by Padawan Obi-Wan
What are you stupid? Blue is for Jedi Guardian, Green is for Consulate, and Yellow for Sentinel, and Red is for the Sith, Vrook Lamare tells you this in The Knights Of The Old Republic when you go to the Jedi Temple on Tatooine. You should have really played the game by now bro. Bro, that post you're responding to was made almost seven years ago. Why U mad, brah? Bro.


Guess KotOR came first for you before TOR, huh?

In case you didn;t ntoice, it does not say the date next to every post, genius. How am I to know it was from 2003? I was on set of attack of the clones in 2003.

lol

Hey "genius", it actually does say the date at the bottom of every post.

No it does not it says that it is today and the time at AM, nothing more. Lucien abviouslky knows the date because he posted in the thread seven years ago. I was filing then i couldn't possibly have seen it.

Hey dude:

Originally posted by Padawan Obi-Wan
In case you didn;t ntoice, it does not say the date next to every post, genius. How am I to know it was from 2003? I was on set of attack of the clones in 2003.

Wow! Just... wow.

Originally posted by Padawan Obi-Wan
I was on set of attack of the clones in 2003.
I, also, assume you gave a few good advices to Lucas to insure film success?

Originally posted by Padawan Obi-Wan
In case you didn;t ntoice, it does not say the date next to every post, genius. How am I to know it was from 2003? I was on set of attack of the clones in 2003. Were you the retard standing next to Lucas asking him to make the movie as awesome as possible? Cuz you seem to be really good at failing miserably.

Originally posted by Arhael
I, also, assume you gave a few good advices to Lucas to insure film success?
*ensure

ahhahhaha Arhael got owned. Learn to spell properly yourself if you are going to try to bully and instigate arguments with other people.

Thank you. I'll make sure I never do the same mistake again.


Owned? You gotta be kidding, in that case go through your own posts and find out how many times you owned yourself.
Moreover, there is no requirement to spell properly, when you "bully and instigate arguments with other people".

You yourself is somone else that would get slapped in a real confrontation. I only speak sense and logic and you were harasing me about my spelling earlier.

http://www.freewebs.com/calitorial/Don__t_feed_the_Troll.jpg

Ar, that's my last remaining pet peeve; I've forsworn the Pedantic!Grammarian path in most other respects. Now I just experiment with composite tenses (like the future simple active continuous tense). You're terrific and shouldn't worry about it!

Sense and logic? Dude, the first thing you said was trying to dismiss a very accurate analysis of SABER FORMS, by suggesting that some color code meant that he was changing his role as a jedi when he changes his style. You made so little sense, I had difficulty trying to put it into other words. One misspelled word is not being owned. By the way, you meant to say, "You yourself ARE someone.."

That being said, Kyle wins. Kyle's force speed makes him not just move 4x faster, but perceive time at that speed. Watch any video of Vader you like, from the movies, the force unleashed, whatever. Slow it down to 1/4 speed, and tell me with a straight face that anyone on this thread would have a hard time hitting him.

I'm shocked this is even a debate...
Vader slaughterhouse.

lol

Kyle Katarn's beard soloes! I always wanted to say that. ^-^

Just kidding. It is said that Kyle Katarn is one of the New Jedi Order's members who can fight Grand Master Luke Skywalker in a sparring match. But that's not really a feat of Kyle. Darth Vader is equal to RotJ Luke Skywalker... I would like to say Kyle, but I'll go with Vader, because he has experience in fighting Jedi and has shown many impressive feats. Kyle has just fought some no-name Dark Jedi.

Katarn isn't even canon anymore...

Kyle stomps, becauze Vader is a tool.

Originally posted by Oneness
Katarn isn't even canon anymore...

Beg your pardon but yes he is. Katarn appears in both the "Legacy of the Force" and "Fate of the Jedi" novel series.

Uh, yeah about that......

Originally posted by Nephthys
Uh, yeah about that......

Go on.

None of those books will be canon in a year or two. I'm not sure if they're canon now. The new movie will **** things UP.

Yep. Pablo Hidalgo, one of the guys on the new Story Group, claimed the only things currently canon are TCW and the movies.

I'd think it'd be a pretty nice match.

Originally posted by Nephthys
None of those books will be canon in a year or two. I'm not sure if they're canon now. The new movie will **** things UP.


Everything is still canon as it was for now. That's likely to change, but hasn't yet.


Even if there's a new canon, old stuff will still be debatable. Just ask DC comic fans ^^

Originally posted by Nephthys
None of those books will be canon in a year or two. I'm not sure if they're canon now. The new movie will **** things UP.

No offence but I find that unlikely. It would make no sense financially. Most Star Wars fans are only interested in the franchise because of the EU. Why would Disney want to alienate them?

Originally posted by Q99
Everything is still canon as it was for now. That's likely to change, but hasn't yet.

Even if there's a new canon, old stuff will still be debatable. Just ask DC comic fans ^^

Precisely.

Originally posted by chilled monkey
No offence but I find that unlikely. It would make no sense financially. Most Star Wars fans are only interested in the franchise because of the EU. Why would Disney want to alienate them?

Uh, no. The EU makes a fraction of what the movies make. Few people actually give a damn about the EU.

Originally posted by ares834
Uh, no. The EU makes a fraction of what the movies make. Few people actually give a damn about the EU.

Beg your pardon but then why is practically every Star Wars novel a best-seller? Clearly many people like the novels and buy them.

Like I said, why alienate an existing fan-base?

Let's be honest. If it hadn't been for the EU keeping peoples interest in the franchise alive, Star Wars would have faded into relative obscurity and there would never have been a Prequel Trilogy.

Originally posted by chilled monkey
Let's be honest though. If it hadn't been for the EU keeping peoples interest in the franchise alive, Star Wars would have faded into relative obscurity and there would never have been a Prequel Trilogy.

Originally posted by chilled monkey
Beg your pardon but then why is practically every Star Wars novel a best-seller? Clearly many people like the novels and buy them.

Like I said, why alienate an existing fan-base?

Because making more movies will make them more money....

Plus many of the current EU fans will continue reading SW even after the reboot.

Originally posted by chilled monkey
Let's be honest. If it hadn't been for the EU keeping peoples interest in the franchise alive, Star Wars would have faded into relative obscurity and there would never have been a Prequel Trilogy.

Why the hell do people say this?

Originally posted by ares834
Because making more movies will make them more money....

They can make new movies without contradicting the established continuity.

Originally posted by ares834
Plus many of the current EU fans will continue reading SW even after the reboot.

True.

Originally posted by ares834
Why the hell do people say this?

Because it's true. Sure the OT is great but people get tired of watching the same thing over and over again.

Do you honestly think there would have ever been a PT if there hadn't been any new material via the novels, comics etc to keep people interested in the intervening years?

Originally posted by chilled monkey

Do you honestly think there would have ever been a PT if there hadn't been any new material via the novels, comics etc to keep people interested in the intervening years?


Of course there would. The OT are considered amongst the best movies of all time. 99% of people who watched the Prequels don't give a rats ass about the EU.

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
Of course there would. The OT are considered amongst the best movies of all time. 99% of people who watched the Prequels don't give a rats ass about the EU.

Then why has practically ever Star Wars novel been a bestseller? If, as you say, the EU was so irrelevant, then why were people buying the novels if they didn't care about them?

A book only has to sell in a few thousand copies to land on a best sellers list.

By contrast the movies have been seen by hundreds of millions of people.

I just don't want this to impact TOR.

I doubt it will.