Darth Sidious vs. Master Yoda

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Darth Somebody
I know this is considered to be a topic long worn out. But I would like to go on threads and make legitimate arguments why neither Palpatine nor Yoda are truly greater than the other - and why Palpatine nor Yoda got owned. Several people are extraordinarily biased, and some have no proof to support their ideas.

Others - such as Nai Fohl - are also biased - but have relative support of their ideas. But not for all of them.

Now. This is NOT in JUST direct combat. I would clearly like to see who is superior. I will make this clear now. Palpatine is not as great as Yoda is in combat with lightsabers. Simply because Palpatine is younger than Yoda, less-experienced, and mainly operates through his powerful connection with the Force.

This versus thread requires more than combat. Yoda-fans bash Palpatine-fans and make threads that engage the two in combat. Simply because they know that eventually Yoda would win. Well, I'm evening the playing field. This tests the following:

Combat Skills:

Intelligence:

Wisdom:

Force-Connection:

Defensive Force Powers:

Offensive Force Powers:

Forsight:

Awareness:

Tactical Ability:

Agility:

Strength:

Experience:

Overall:

Fishy
Combat skills: Yoda, come on people Yoda would never allow himself to be defeated. He lost his lightsaber which was a huge mistake on his part, but if you look at the circumstances I can understand that.

Intelligence: Equal... Yoda is far wiser but Palpatine is a great politician and manipulator. It depends on what you are looking for

Force-Connection: Palpatine, he learned a lot in less time. However Yoda was more powerful in the force.

Tactical Ability: Yoda, Palpatine was not a tactician. He was a fool in that aspect otherwise he would have actually used army's to fight instead of back stab each other.

Agility: Yoda, just look at him fly.

Strength: Physical strength I assume? Then obviously Palpatine.

Experience: Yoda 900 years against 70? Who's going to win. Besides Yoda fought a lot more.

Overall: I'd say Yoda.

Darth Somebody
Whoops. That reminds me. Gotta add three more categories:

Wisdom:

Defensive Force Powers:

Offensive Force Powers:

Fishy
Wisdom: Yoda

Defensive force powers: Yoda

Offensive force powers: Palpatine

Darth Somebody
Yeah, lol, you keep reminding me to put in categories I've stumbled over. Lol, stand by!

Darth Somebody
Combat Skills: Yoda. They're about even - but Yoda, I'd have to say.

Intelligence: Palpatine. Academically, he's more proficient, I'd say.

Wisdom: Yoda.

Force-Connection: Hmmm...tie.

Defensive Force Powers: Yoda.

Offensive Force Powers: Palpatine.

Forsight: Palpatine

Awareness: Yoda

Tactical Ability: From my perspective, a tie.

Agility: Yoda.

Strength: Palpatine.

Experience: Yoda.

Overall: Yoda - but not by a mile. A few centimeters at best.

Darth_DaNThEMaN
Sidious already won, bucko.

Fishy
We are not talking about who won we are talking about who is more powerful

Clawed The Bum
Combat Skills:yoda he does like 20 flips in three secounds

Intelligence: Palpatine i wouldsay yoda but he can't speak in proper grammer

Wisdom: palpatine he sacrificed dokku and stuff for brilliant plan that requires wisdom

Force-Connection: palpatine he won vs yoda in a one on one fight simple

Defensive Force Powers:impossible to tell. no one used lighting on palpitine so we can't really tell if palpitine can deflect it and a great offense is a good defense mace wendu couldn't slice palpatine when he was using lightning

Offensive Force Powers: palpatine obiuosly lightning

Forsight: palpatine

Awareness: palpatine, yoda was unaware that anackin would turn completly dark

Tactical Ability: palpatine, he had the whole attack planed out, the betrayel with the clones, turning anackin dark, and the making of the death star

Agility:yoda, but only for short busts i mean he walks with a walking stick
Strength: palpitine, he is bigger and obiuosly stronger... well i shouldn't say bigger i should say less small
Experience:yoda older
Overall: palpatine he is overall way better, yoda lost a duel to palpatine" failed i have, go in to exile i must"

Cypher-Jinn
Combat Skills: Yoda. He is just an insane fighter who could outspar anyone.

Intelligence: I'd say that this 1 is a tie.

Wisdom: Yoda by a long shot.

Force-Connection: Tie.

Defensive Force Powers: Yoda.

Offensive Force Powers: Palpatine is far superior in this department.

Forsight: Palpatine

Awareness: Yoda

Tactical Ability: Yoda, he's a full on bad-ass green general.

Agility: Yoda.

Strength: Palpatine.

Experience: Yoda.

Overall: Yoda. Kicked Palpatines ass i have.

Darth Somebody
No. Yoda didn't kick Palpatine's ass or vice versa.

JediMasterLuke5
Well when they fought, it clearly seemed they were even through the whole duel. If anything Yoda over powers sidious in the end but he feels the effect of the blast too.

Darth Somebody
It seemed to me that Palpatine ran originally because he didn't think he could face Yoda. Remember. Palpatine just gained control of the galaxy. His goal. So why fight a powerful and revered Jedi Master if you can just escape? He had everything left to lose. So he ran. Yoda stopped him. So they fought. Yoda was on the offensive - Palpatine on the defensive. Yoda SEEMED to be the superior duelist. But Palpatine kept up with him, move for move. Realizing that they were at a stalemate, Palpatine then tried to get away from Yoda to used long-distance attacks against him. Yoda managed to barely dodge these. Then Palpatine and Yoda were fighting over control of the lightning. It was a battle of wills. Yoda managed to throw it back at lightning - but it ended up helping Palpatine instead of hurting him. Yoda was flung like a pebble. And he ran because he KNEW he couldn't defeat Palpatine. He lost his chance.

DarthSidiouss
I like how you thaught of it Darth somebody

Clawed The Bum
palpitine > yoda
i can't bieleve that some people here even think that yoda is stronger he doesn't even come close

JediMasterLuke5
How could you say Yoda didnt even come close? Yoda and Sidious were even the whole duel, no body had the upperhand. In the end it looked like Yoda was overpowered and then Yoda overpowered Sidious, resulting in sending Sidious very far up and bearly nocking Yoda over the edge.

DarthSidiouss
i should say they are both equal in all they are quite possibly the best dulers with a lightsaber before NJO LUKE

santuccie
A lot of people seem to believe that the result of a single fight demonstrates who is the better fighter. Personally, I don't think it proves anything (with the exception of clear ownage), except that anyone can lose a fight, even Grand Master Yoda and Darth Sidious (who each lost one in RotS). If no one can ever beat an opponent who has beaten them once, then what would be the point of a rematch?

We never got to see Yoda lose a lightsaber duel to anyone - not to Sidious, and not to Dooku - despite being over 800 years old and pint-sized with a child-size weapon. Yoda also seemed to outdo Sidious in knowledge of the force, by setting a pod in spin before casting it back at him. And although Yoda was clearly more reluctant than Sidious to use force lightning, he actually seemed to be putting out more energy in the end than Sidious (who was starting to cry out from the pain), before the force caused both of them to fly backward.

At this point, what happened was, in my mind, purely circumstantial: Yoda had just lept up to the edge of the pod, while Sidious was already in the pod, and walking toward him. When the force knocked them back, Sidious did a backward somersault and barely managed to grab the railing of the pod with one hand. Yoda had nothing to grab hold of, and fell several stories, bouncing off the Supreme Chancellor's podium and another object before finally landing on the floor.

I don't know about you, but I wouldn't have been in the mood to continue fighting myself after a fall like that. And I'm only 33; I can't imagine a senior surviving such a fall. And since Sidious wasn't too keen on letting go of that rail, I think it stands to reason that, had he taken that fall himself, then it would have taken quite a toll on his own stamina as well.

Obi-Wan actually won two fights against opponents you might expect to have beaten him. Pre-cyborg Darth Vader knew that Obi-Wan was starting to tire toward the end of their fight, and said, "This is the end for you, my master," which Obi-Wan seemed to believe. Obi-Wan narrowly avoided being cut by Vader's lightsaber when he lept backward for land, while Vader wasn't so lucky, as he was trying to jump from lower ground to higher ground and gave Obi-Wan plenty of time to deliver the one fell stroke that changed his life forever.

Obi-Wan had also been pretty well whupped by Darth Maul, but managed to pull out a victory because Maul didn't anticipate Obi-Wan getting a hold of his master's lightsaber while jumping out of the pit and then proceeding to slice him in half (not to take anything away from Obi-Wan, who deserves nothing but props for having thought of it). Less notable was the fight between Master Windu and Sidious. I actually believe Sidious was the better fighter, and he did have Windu at sword's point for a moment before Windu recovered and continued the engagement. Windu groaned and appeared to be having some difficulty before pulling out a victory against the Sith Lord with a kick to the face.

In my opinion, Yoda was truly the Grand Master of the Jedi, and more solid in his combat technique than any known Sith Lord as well. Anakin may have had the potential to surpass him, but that's left to the imagination. Unfortunately, he got jacked up badly in his first fight with Obi-Wan, and wound up having to have all four limbs replaced with prosthetics and live out the rest of his life in an air-conditioned suit with some manner of artificial respiratory equipment.

Those who sneer at the fact that Yoda scampered wide-eyed to his escape, and went into hiding while Palpatine stayed in the spotlight, are entitled to their beliefs. The way I see it, the Sith had been in hiding until they came to power. And by the time Palpatine's secret had been uncovered, he had risen to power, and had his armies hunting down the Jedi. After his fight with Windu, the Emperor made up a story about the Jedi trying to assassinate him, leaving out the important fact that he was Lord of the Sith.

As I explained previously, Yoda was too hurt to continue the fight, and had just enough strength to get away. In addition, Sidious had blasted his lightsaber out of his hand, and it would probably have been a bad idea to go looking for it in all the rubble, while Sidious was unhurt and still in the room with him. And now, the two surviving Jedi found themselves for the first time at odds with the "powers that be," and had no choice but to go into hiding themselves. Makes more sense to me than, "Yoda got scared, so he ran and hid." Remember that it was Yoda chasing Sidious right up to the very end, when he got hurt.

While it's true the Sith may have a slight edge in the fact that they feel no restraint against the use of force lightning and other abilities, every single one of them has lost at least one match in their prime to my knowledge. And furthermore, anyone who lives his/her life for evil has a crippling weakness in their underestimation of that little thing called karma; the world has more people gravitating toward kindness than wickedness, and no one can defeat the whole world (or galaxy, in the case of Star Wars). Salute!

mnat801
Combat Skills: Judging on their ROTS duel, it's too close to determine who is better, so I'd say tie.

Intelligence: Sidious, because of the success of his master plan of clones backstabbing jedi and converting Anakin to the dark side and the risk involved.

Wisdom: Yoda.

Force-Connection:Tie

Defensive Force Powers: Yoda

Offensive Force Powers: Sidious

Forsight: Yoda, because he was good with predicting the future, esp in TCW.

Awareness: Sideous, as Yoda didn't realise Palpatine was actually Sideous.

Tactical Ability: Depends. If as in war tactics, Yoda, but if its in general, probably tie.

Agility: Yoda.

Strength: Palpatine

Experience: Yoda

Overall: I'd still say its a draw, but if i had to choose, it would be Yoda, however only by a slight margin.

Pwned
Combat Skills: I would have to say Yoda, simply because nobody can effectively fight an opponent that small. In skill itself, equals.

Intelligence: Tie. Sidious is timing smart, but his plan was laid before he even became Sith. Yoda is Yoda.

Wisdom: Yoda. Can't say anything other than that.

Force-Connection: Tie.

Defensive Force Powers: Yoda. Jedi use the Force for defense, never to attack.

Offensive Force Powers: Palpatine. Force lightning mutha-fu**as!

Foresight: Tie. Yoda can predict the future easily until it is clouded by Darkness, Palpatine was wrong a LOT.

Awareness: Yoda.

Tactical Ability: Yoda. Sidious is a strategist and manipulater. No tactics.

Agility: Yoda. Undeniably.

Strength: Probably Sidious. Both are pretty weak physically.

Experience: Yoda. 880 years at that point compared to 70.

Overall: Yoda.

The reason he ran from Sidious is actually because Sidious called for help..... Senate Guards were on their way and showed up right after Yoda left. No lightsaber+clones+armed Sidious is not good for Yoda. 1 on 1 Yoda would take him out.

Dolos
Combat Skills: Sidious (Force speed > Force valor, and combat is the nature of the Dark Side)

Intelligence: Sidious (Ultimately out-smarted Yoda and found a way to become stronger than any Sith before him)

Wisdom: Yoda (Yoda was older, and demonstrated his eight hundred years of wisdom on several occasions, while Sidious kept coming back to get beaten back until he went mad and his spirit so corrupted that the spirits of all Jedi simply decimated his very essence in the end)

Force-Connection: Yoda (Limited by the light side and less grueling training)

Defensive Force Powers: Yoda (Force Wave manage to stave off the full force of Sidious' peerless Force Lightning until it exploded)

Offensive Force Powers: Sidious

Forsight: Sidious (His plans required the use of Dark Sight, which allowed him to achieve outcomes extremely far out)

Awareness: Yoda (Palpatine was unaware of Vader's conflict, his overconfidence was his undoing)

Tactical Ability: Palpatine

Agility: Yoda (Compliments of Ataru)

Strength: Palpatine (5 times his size)

Experience: Yoda lol

Overall: Palpatine

DecayisAwesome
Combat Skills: Pure saber skills, probably Yoda. Palpatine doesnt have the time or opportunity to train like Yoda does.

Intelligence: Palpatine. He uses the entire galaxy as a chess board and wins

Wisdom: Hard to day. Palpatine is definitely wise given all hes acomplished, but his wisdom is very inward focused. Yoda probably had an advantage because he is compassionate and can understand the universe in terms other than his own.

Force-Connection: Equal

Defensive Force Powers: Yoda

Offensive Force Powers: Palpatine

Forsight: Palpatine. His foresight allowed him to destory the Jedi order and maintain a professional relationship with Yoda, who never saw it coming.

Awareness: Palpatine. He reaches out and senses the shifts and turns of the war and twists it to keep it believably even.

Tactical Ability: Palpatine easily. He is fighting a war on both ends as and keeping it exactly where he wants it. Yoda is fighting to win and fails to do so. Palpatine also tried to retreat rather than fight when he was is in danger despite showing no fear during the battle. Outcome is more important than ego to him.

Agility: Yoda, though maybe not by as much as it seems. He needs to be agile to make up for his lack of reach. Palpatine has the reach so he doesnt need to do the acrobatics, it doesnt mean he is incapable of it.

Strength: Palpatine

Experience: Yoda by a wide margin

Overall: Palpatine. In their fight he was using massive amounts of offensive power and not tiring at all. Yoda fought him evenly but was wearing down and in the novel he admitted to himself Palpatine had the fight won.

He wasnt able to overpower Palpatine in the end, just push his lightning back into itself so it exploded in all directions and they both took the hit. After that he was spent, Palpatine seemed to be suffering very little fatigue if any and was having a lot of fun. Yoda could equal him in output for a time, but Palpatine has vast reserves that Yoda just cant keep up with.

-kV-
Combat Skills: Yoda (Sidious had to flee to other pods because he couldn't handle Yoda after a while)

Intelligence: Sidious

Wisdom: Yoda

Force-Connection: Yoda

Defensive Force Powers: Yoda

Offensive Force Powers: Sidious

Forsight: Sidious

Awareness: Draw

Tactical Ability: Palpatine

Agility: Yoda

Strength: Palpatine

Experience: Yoda

Overall: Yoda couldn't defeat Sidious, and couldn't prevent Sidious from destroying the Jedi Order and forming the Empire. At the same time, he knew that Sidious could ultimately be destroyed by the power of the Light Side of the Force. Sidious outplayed Yoda until the end, when he failed to recognize the bond between Vader and Luke. Hence, Yoda ultimately "won." His training of Luke was a key element instrumental for Sidious's downfall.

EmperorSidious2
I combat skills: pretty even I'f that battle were to have continues I would say that palpatine would win only because YODA would get tired and Sidious would continue to block and parry

Intelligence: a tie since palpatine is a skillful and manipulative politician while Yoda has had 900 years of experienc and a long time to build up his intelligence

Wisdom:yoda

Force connection: palpatine palpatine had such a connection with the force he was able to block out Darth plaguies mind tricks without any formal training and is the incarnate of the dark side yoda wasent for the light luke was

Defensive powers: yoda able to block dookus Lightning and Sidious for a period of time

Offensive powers: sidious he is a Sith they are way more destructive and Sidious has masterd more abilities

Foresight: palpatine he was able to see all of the events in ROTJ as he said everything has happened as I have foreseen while yoda was clouded by the dark side showing how powerful Sidious is

Awareness:tie

Tactical ability: in single combat palpatine with multiple groups yoda

Agility: yoda but if palpatine in an open space is pretty agile but yoda ftw in this category

Strength: palpatine

Experience: I'd say it's a tie, yes yoda is 900 years old but he has spent most of his time in the temple meditating on the force and ruling from the temple while Sidious even though in his 80s was in way more Lightsaber deuls and also focused on the force but if had to choose a winner I'd say yoda but not by a long shot though

Overall: Sidious

Yoda ran because he realized he could not defeat Sidious and if you pay attention to the deul you see that if yoda would not have had that realization palpatine would have killed yoda but it would have been a long battle though so I declare sidious the winner in my opinion

Stigma
Interesting idea for a thread.


Combat Skills: Draw

Intelligence: Sidious

Wisdom: Yoda

Force-Connection: Draw

Defensive Force Powers: Yoda

Offensive Force Powers: Sidious

Forsight: Draw

Awareness: Sidious

Tactical Ability: Sidious

Agility: Yoda

Strength: Draw

Experience: Yoda

Overall: 50/50 they are equals IMHO.

Kosmos Supreme
In the novel RoTS, Sidious is potrayed as the stonger of the two.

Stigma
But not in the RotS movie.

Angelalex242
Short version:

Yoda's fighting a losing draw. Which is still better then most anyone else can do. Still, of everyone who's ever fought Sidious, he's one of 2 lightsiders to escape with his life.

carthage
Sidious

Trocity
Originally posted by carthage
Sidious

thumb up

AncientPower
Darth Sidious is the clear superior as portrayed in the Revenge of the Sith novelisation.

NewGuy01
Took out the ones that don't matter.

Combat Skills: Draw

Wisdom: Yoda

Force-Connection: Yoda

Defensive Force Powers: Yoda

Offensive Force Powers: Sidious

Foresight: Sidious

Tactical Ability: Sidious

Speed/Agility: Sidious

Strength: Draw

Experience: Yoda (Though as the RotS novel depicts, no experience that would help him against Palpatine.)

Overall: Sidious

EmperorSidious2
Let's put this into perspective people. Six Jedi that we know of as of movies have challenged sidious to a duel. Onlu three of them lasted more than one minute. Only two of them came out of it with their lives and only one was actually able to defeat him but as DE is no longer cannon I guess only 5 Jedi have challenged sidious to a duel and none won realistically.

Also put sidious and yoda on equal ground then see who wins. People keep say the entire fight was against yoda. Well I can agree with the Lightning ball part how his small stature and being on the edge would be a disadvantage. However sidious at the beginning was at a disadvantage as his move,nets were hampered and he needs his space as all Atari masters do.

Sinious
Originally posted by EmperorSidious2
he needs his space as all Atari masters do.

Sidious plays Atari? blink

ares834
Originally posted by EmperorSidious2
and none won realistically.

Uh, Windu?

Unless you believe Sidious was feigning defeat.

Trocity
Originally posted by NewGuy01
Took out the ones that don't matter.

Combat Skills: Draw

Wisdom: Yoda

Force-Connection: Yoda

Defensive Force Powers: Yoda

Offensive Force Powers: Sidious

Foresight: Sidious

Tactical Ability: Sidious

Speed/Agility: Sidious

Strength: Draw

Experience: Yoda (Though as the RotS novel depicts, no experience that would help him against Palpatine.)

Overall: Sidious

thumb up

KuRuPT Thanosi
Originally posted by Darth_DaNThEMaN
Sidious already won, bucko.

Umm actually he didn't lose, in fact he looked slightly superior. if that is what you meant by lose I agree thumb up

KuRuPT Thanosi
Originally posted by DecayisAwesome
Combat Skills: Pure saber skills, probably Yoda. Palpatine doesnt have the time or opportunity to train like Yoda does.

Intelligence: Palpatine. He uses the entire galaxy as a chess board and wins

Wisdom: Hard to day. Palpatine is definitely wise given all hes acomplished, but his wisdom is very inward focused. Yoda probably had an advantage because he is compassionate and can understand the universe in terms other than his own.

Force-Connection: Equal

Defensive Force Powers: Yoda

Offensive Force Powers: Palpatine

Forsight: Palpatine. His foresight allowed him to destory the Jedi order and maintain a professional relationship with Yoda, who never saw it coming.

Awareness: Palpatine. He reaches out and senses the shifts and turns of the war and twists it to keep it believably even.

Tactical Ability: Palpatine easily. He is fighting a war on both ends as and keeping it exactly where he wants it. Yoda is fighting to win and fails to do so. Palpatine also tried to retreat rather than fight when he was is in danger despite showing no fear during the battle. Outcome is more important than ego to him.

Agility: Yoda, though maybe not by as much as it seems. He needs to be agile to make up for his lack of reach. Palpatine has the reach so he doesnt need to do the acrobatics, it doesnt mean he is incapable of it.

Strength: Palpatine

Experience: Yoda by a wide margin

Overall: Palpatine. In their fight he was using massive amounts of offensive power and not tiring at all. Yoda fought him evenly but was wearing down and in the novel he admitted to himself Palpatine had the fight won.

He wasnt able to overpower Palpatine in the end, just push his lightning back into itself so it exploded in all directions and they both took the hit. After that he was spent, Palpatine seemed to be suffering very little fatigue if any and was having a lot of fun. Yoda could equal him in output for a time, but Palpatine has vast reserves that Yoda just cant keep up with.

Disagree with much of this, but really, Yoda never said Sidious won. What he said is, the fight was over before it began. He was referring to the Jedi being complacent over the years, while the Sith grew stronger and outsmarted them (Order 66 etc etc). In no way shape or form was Yoda saying he lost to Sids and he knew he couldn't win.

SunRazer
Sources have stated Yoda never could have won, anyway.

KuRuPT Thanosi
Provide these tier one canon sources. Not BS sources, point me to any place in Lucas commentary.. script.. movie or book that says such a thing... Good luck

EmperorSidious2
Originally posted by Sinious
Sidious plays Atari? blink

He's a master of all styles and Ataru is one he prefers. However I believe that like most Sith he prefers Nimand and uses the other styles to strengthen his core form.

Sinious
Originally posted by EmperorSidious2
He's a master of all styles and Ataru is one he prefers. However I believe that like most Sith he prefers Nimand and uses the other styles to strengthen his core form.

Yeah well it was a joke...

EmperorSidious2
Originally posted by Sinious
Yeah well it was a joke...

Yea I know I just take things to seriously sometimes. We Sidious fans have to stick together. Put these two on an even playing field where both can move as much as they want. Sidious can handle yoda in terms of sabers it's basically a tie. The script says that yoda almost pushed him to the edge and the Sith Lord dropped his lightsaber. The novel describes Sidious as being the superior of the two in lightsbers.

carthage
Sidious beats Yoda again but fails to beat Windu because he sucks

EmperorSidious2
Originally posted by carthage
Sidious beats Yoda again but fails to beat Windu because he sucks

If Sidious fought Windu again one on one on an open field with some rocks around so both can throw stuff at one another Sidious will win because Windu would not be as angry as he was in ROTS thus vaapad would carry him less so he would definitely be killed by Sidious.

DARTH POWER
Originally posted by EmperorSidious2
If Sidious fought Windu again one on one on an open field with some rocks around so both can throw stuff at one another Sidious will win because Windu would not be as angry as he was in ROTS thus vaapad would carry him less so he would definitely be killed by Sidious.


F*** Windu being "angry." You make it out as if all Windu has to do is get angry and suddenly he's on par with Yoda and Sidious.


But otherwise yeah in the environment you described Sidious would beat Windu. Especially when Windu doesn't have other Jedi to help him in for the first seconds of the fight.

EmperorSidious2
Originally posted by DARTH POWER
F*** Windu being "angry." You make it out as if all Windu has to do is get angry and suddenly he's on par with Yoda and Sidious.


But otherwise yeah in the environment you described Sidious would beat Windu. Especially when Windu doesn't have other Jedi to help him in for the first seconds of the fight.

Vaapad takes the inner darkness of the user as well as the dark side of another. Windus anger was his inner dark side as anger leads to the dark side and is seen throughout the movie as an emotion that belongs to the dark side. So yes Windu was amped also due to his anger. So yes if Windu is angry than yes he is stronger if going against a dark side user. Also vaapad is to much of a wild card per say. Windu vs Sidious was due to vaapad but that doesn't mean he would win against yoda as he would not receive that amp against yoda. So vaapad is to wild to determine if that user is one of the best as it gives them an edge against dark spiders that they wouldn't get against lightsiders.

McP
Windu suck in the new canon btw. In a comic that is basing on TCW he couldn't everpower Ventress (I think that is't a canon source, but still shows as an direction), he faild to overpower Maul and Talzin (who was stomped by Sidious in sabers).

ROTS Sidious was a bit lucky at the end of the fight. At the end of TCW Yoda was clearly his superior (in the vision at least). He was better duelist (by small margin, though). Even in ROTS Yoda was overpowering Sidious at the end of their Force fight, but was at position disadvatage and was finally pushed away.
Sidious had advantage because he could run wherever he wanted, and Yoda had to chase him all the time.

DARTH POWER
Originally posted by EmperorSidious2
he would win against yoda as he would not receive that amp against yoda.

Why? If All he has to do is get "angry"? Can he not get angry at Yoda?

Or is it Only when he gets angry at darksiders that his anger amps him? Was he not angry at Maul when he fought him? Or at Dooku, Ventress or Sora Bulq? He should probably just learn how to get angry in anytime he needs to like the Hulk.

EmperorSidious2
Originally posted by McP
Windu suck in the new canon btw. In a comic that is basing on TCW he couldn't everpower Ventress (I think that is't a canon source, but still shows as an direction), he faild to overpower Maul and Talzin (who was stomped by Sidious in sabers).

ROTS Sidious was a bit lucky at the end of the fight. At the end of TCW Yoda was clearly his superior (in the vision at least). He was better duelist (by small margin, though). Even in ROTS Yoda was overpowering Sidious at the end of their Force fight, but was at position disadvatage and was finally pushed away.
Sidious had advantage because he could run wherever he wanted, and Yoda had to chase him all the time.

Vaapad can only take him so far. It depends on the inner darkness of the opponent and the anger and dark side the opponent lets out. That's why a person like dooku or Darth Vader Vaal wouldn't work as well as both are calculating duelist instead of raging Sith like maul and bane. When did he fail to overpower maul, I think he almost won with the help of Secura though. Or he was about to win. In that duel vaapad wouldn't take Windu far enough as ventress isn't a slouch in lightsaber combat and could defeat even kit fisto, so he would need to bring everything forth to defeat her( his knowledge of the other 7 styles ). That's why she was gone in like 5 seconds after that.

It's been a while since I have seen that duel but as far as I'm concerned they looked like equals with both pushing the other back. Sidious was actually about to lose the force fight but had a sudden vision that he would be needed in the future. This translates to saying that yoda knew that he couldn't defeat Sidious. The novelization shows this and the movie. Sidious was at a disadvantage in terms of saber because his movements were hampered by the small podium space while yoda can just jump around wherever he wants. So the fact that Sidious can keep up and match him blow for blow in a confined space shows that they are equal.

SunRazer
It's hardly just anger, lol.

EmperorSidious2
Originally posted by DARTH POWER
Why? If All he has to do is get "angry"? Can he not get angry at Yoda?

Or is it Only when he gets angry at darksiders that his anger amps him? Was he not angry at Maul when he fought him? Or at Dooku, Ventress or Sora Bulq? He should probably just learn how to get angry in anytime he needs to like the Hulk.

One can't just get angry as you put it. Windu was angry that the republic he had spent an entire war protecting and risking his life everyday and watching his comrades die. That the anger he received against Sidious, an anger he would not be able to reach again. Also he is a Jedi, jedi are taught to be balanced, doesn't the code say, there isn't anger there is serenity, he can get angry but only when something like that has happened. Also, dooku and ventress are both practitioners of Makashi, a clam style with dooku always staying calm and ventress only getting angry when she thinks she can win and keeps charging but can never win like she did against dooku when she had savage with her, sofa bulq is also a practioner of vaapad, maul I haven't read the SOD novel so I don't know the circumstance they were in also didn't mace have the assistance of another Jedi and didn't they win.

EmperorSidious2
Originally posted by SunRazer
It's hardly just anger, lol.

Anger and the dark side of the opponent.

DARTH POWER
Originally posted by EmperorSidious2
maul I haven't read the SOD novel so I don't know the circumstance they were in also didn't mace have the assistance of another Jedi and didn't they win.


That's true Mace had assistance from Secura. But it was just a short scuffle. But point being Maul is as angry a Darksider as they get.

Sinious
Originally posted by McP
ROTS Sidious was a bit lucky at the end of the fight. At the end of TCW Yoda was clearly his superior (in the vision at least). He was better duelist (by small margin, though). Even in ROTS Yoda was overpowering Sidious at the end of their Force fight, but was at position disadvatage and was finally pushed away.
Sidious had advantage because he could run wherever he wanted, and Yoda had to chase him all the time.

What the hell are you talking about?

EmperorSidious2
Originally posted by DARTH POWER
That's true Mace had assistance from Secura. But it was just a short scuffle. But point being Maul is as angry a Darksider as they get.


True but being in a short scuffle as that one we can't measure his vaapad use as it was very short and he also had the assistance of a fellow Jedi so I just don't worry about it.

DARTH POWER
Originally posted by EmperorSidious2
True but being in a short scuffle as that one we can't measure his vaapad use as it was very short and he also had the assistance of a fellow Jedi so I just don't worry about it.

What having assistance weakens Vapaad's usefulness now as well?

God I hope the new canon eliminates Vapaad.

Sinious
I would prefer going back to the days when everyone just assumed Sidious lost on purpose. yes

EmperorSidious2
Originally posted by DARTH POWER
What having assistance weakens Vapaad's usefulness now as well?

God I hope the new canon eliminates Vapaad.

No you misunderstood. I'm just stating the circumstances of the battle. Windu had a partner so he probably wouldn't need vaapad as strongly, plus he had his other skills aswell.

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