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Darth Nihilus
Exar Kun
NJO LUKE
Darth Revan
Yoda
Sidious
Vader
AJunta Pall
Kyle Katarn
Darth Bane

Greatest Jedi: Yoda

Most Powerful Jedi: NJO Luke

Most Potential: Anakin

Greatest Sith: Sidious

Most Powerful Sith: Grr...too many.

i see.. well then whyd you vote for revan ?

I voted for Revan, but my post didnt submit. Really, Revan doesn't need to have his accomplishments described again.

please tell me his accomplishments i am a new member!

Originally posted by DarthSidiouss
i see.. well then whyd you vote for revan ?

Are you sure he voted for Revan? Maybe someone else just came into this thread and, instead of posting, voted for the guy they thought was the right choice. Maybe Mr. Darth Somebody hasn't voted yet. But then again it's all relative, sir. I'm just kidding here. By the way, you are a fast researcher. I applaud you.

Dammit, Glentract, you posted right before me! And I was right in this post, too! Curse my slowness!

im only 13 years old

I just turned fourteen, what does that have to do with anything?

I am just saying. What time is it there ? it 12:31 here. Want to be my friend ?

Central time hear. Not comment.

i seeeee well alright u dont have to be my friend

I would rather get to know you first. You have to think of it from my point of veiw. You could very well be some crazy child molester who lies about his age. I'm not saying you are a molester, but I still dont really know you. Maybe in a few days.

im from canada ?? and i am 12 going thirteen in september

Be careful on the internet, gentlemen. DO NOT TRUST PEOPLE UNLESS UNDER SPECIAL CIRCUMSTANCES. This is a relatively safe place, though. Many others, however, are not - I'm sorry to offend anyone, but I think it is highly important to register what Glentract just said: maintain vigilance.

i understand

The most powerful Jedi is defintly NJO Luke. I would say the most powerful sith is Sidious.

i agree with you!

NJO luke

most powerful sith is sidiuos.
most powerful jedi is obi won konobi but you didn't put him. many people disagree with me and i argued with them alot. so if you want me to state the reasons why obi is the most powerful i will list in a long thread

obi-wan is in my top 10 strongest duelists

1-Luke skywalker
2-Darth Sidious
3-Yoda
4-Obi-Wan
5-Count Dooku
6-Mace Windu
7-Plo Koon
8-KI-Adi-Mundi
9-Kit Fisto
10-Annakin

Originally posted by DarthSidiouss
I am just saying. What time is it there ? it 12:31 here. Want to be my friend ?
lol........

Originally posted by JediMasterLuke5
The most powerful Jedi is defintly NJO Luke. I would say the most powerful sith is Sidious.
Sidious is not the most powerful, maybe a genius, but he does not have raw power. All he has is his insane lighting and well.. that can be stopped.

i like the way you think darth sidiuos but i think you should change lukes spot with obi's

yoda stopped it well.... not. mace wendu stopped it well not. they stopped it for a bit then they got owned by lightning

There are not enough options on who is the greatest in this thread.

And this thread dosent belong here! Damn new commers!

Originally posted by Clawed The Bum
yoda stopped it well.... not. mace wendu stopped it well not. they stopped it for a bit then they got owned by lightning
The best option is alreasy on there, NJO Luke, its a no brainer. NJO Luke owns everyone hes tied for the most midi chloreans(I think thats how you spell it) count. No body even comes close to NJO Luke.

Are you kidding! NJO Luke aint as good as you think.
List of people that could beat him:
Tulak
Naga
Marka
Ajunta
Revan
Malak

plus Bane and Exar Kun

plus obi won konobi

hell no

Originally posted by Bobafetty
Are you kidding! NJO Luke aint as good as you think.
List of people that could beat him:
Tulak
Naga
Marka
Ajunta
Revan
Malak
Very Very wrong. Luke is the son of the chosen one, so at his peak he is unbeatable by any Jedi/Sith.

exactly. man dont you people understand LUKE IS FKN INVINCIBLE

Yes I couldnt have put it better my self.

lol finally someone who thinks the same way i do. when i say luke is invincible evryone starts spazzing..lol

I'm spazzing!

Being the son of Hitler doesn't make you necessarly evil, so being the son of Anakin dont mean much.

i agree that its irrelevant wether hes the son of anakin or not but he still is the most powergul force user ever possibly tied wiht ragnos, and for sh*t could
tulak
ajunta
revan
naga
malak
and exar beat they could give him v.hard fight but none of them could beat him

Originally posted by Darth_Glentract
I'm spazzing!

Being the son of Hitler doesn't make you necessarly evil, so being the son of Anakin dont mean much.
It means you have the same amount of Midichloreans as Anikan, which means you have the potential to be the best jedi ever, which he does.

luke is unbeatable

luke isn't "unbeatable" i agree he is arguably the most powerful force user and his midi-chlorian count is acctually less than yodas and anakins, its sumthin like 14,500, but luke could pan anyone exept ragnos who im not sure about

his midichlorean count isnt 14,500 that was a fan made site that made that. Lukes is well over 20,000. This is what I would estimate the count be.

Anikan - 23,000
Luke - 23,000
Leia - 23,000
Palpatine - 20,000
Yoda - 20,000
Mace Windu - 19,000

Now thats what I would estimate those people Midichlorean count to be. Fan made sites are not usually accurate. Luke and Leia have the same count as their father. It practically says that in one of the movies. It says something like....."Vaders on threat would be if he was to have offspring because they could become as powerful as him or even more powerful than he could ever hope to be"

Originally posted by JediMasterLuke5
It means you have the same amount of Midichloreans as Anikan, which means you have the potential to be the best jedi ever, which he does.

Thats bullshit....

If you always had the same midiclorians as your parent how come Jedi get weaker over time.

How come the Rakatan eventually lost their connection with the force, how come the sons of the ancient Sith and Jedi do not still rule? Being the son of somebody powerful does not make you powerful. Besides Anakin was 50% force at max, Luke was only 25% at max. So thats just a load of crap. Luke is not invincible because he is the son of Anakin. Being Anakin his son doesn't mean shit.

Well then dont question GL when he said Luke can be just as powerful as Anikan could ever be.

keyword CAN

Originally posted by Fishy
Besides Anakin was 50% force at max, Luke was only 25% at max. So thats just a load of crap. Luke is not invincible because he is the son of Anakin. Being Anakin his son doesn't mean shit.

Actualy people can posses 75 % of the medichlorian level the most powerful of their parents had.

Thereby Anakin could be 75 % of the force itself, Luke + Leia 56,25 %.
And still you would need the force itself being your grandfather to match Lukes sheer force potential...no matter if you say he is 50 % or 25 % force at max.

Originally posted by JediMasterLuke5
his midichlorean count isnt 14,500 that was a fan made site that made that. Lukes is well over 20,000. This is what I would estimate the count be.

Anikan - 23,000
Luke - 23,000
Leia - 23,000
Palpatine - 20,000
Yoda - 20,000
Mace Windu - 19,000

Now thats what I would estimate those people Midichlorean count to be. Fan made sites are not usually accurate. Luke and Leia have the same count as their father. It practically says that in one of the movies. It says something like....."Vaders on threat would be if he was to have offspring because they could become as powerful as him or even more powerful than he could ever hope to be"

what the f*ck?! thats such crap ! your dismissing my comment (which has sources) for your own opinion ! and in TPM they even state that yodas midi-chlorian count is 17,000 and why would luke's midichlorian count be so high ? his mother isn't force sensetive, he isn't the chosen one, his father isn't the force, i agree that NJO Lluke is posibly the most powerfull force user ever but i disagree that hismidi-chlorian count is the same as anakins

Out of the jedi that featured in the film ROTS:

1. Mace Windu.
2. Yoda.
3. Anakin Skywalker.
4. Obi Won Kenobi.
5. Cin Drallig.
6. Luminara Unduli.
7. Kit Fisto.
8. Plo Koon.
9. Ki Adi Mundi.
10. Serra Keto.

Originally posted by chewbacca II
what the f*ck?! thats such crap ! your dismissing my comment (which has sources) for your own opinion ! and in TPM they even state that yodas midi-chlorian count is 17,000 and why would luke's midichlorian count be so high ? his mother isn't force sensetive, he isn't the chosen one, his father isn't the force, i agree that NJO Lluke is posibly the most powerfull force user ever but i disagree that hismidi-chlorian count is the same as anakins

They never state that Yoda's midichlorian count is 17,000. What movie were you watching? It is said that Anakin's count is over twenty thousand; it's off the charts. Higher than even Yoda's. No '17,000' figure is given.

That's Supershadow bullshit.

And this thread may as well be, too. Far too many opinions and biased deductions flying around. . .

Oh...not that midi-chlorians again. How I hate Lucas for introducing this stuff in TPM.

Only thing said is that Anakin's midi-chlorian level exceeds the scale and is higher then Yoda's (who's most likely top of the scale) meaning tat Anakin's midi-chlorian count is 20,000+ where Yoda's is most likely somewhere near or exactly 20,000.

Not that this would matter since Anakin never reached his full potential and got his midi-chlorian level decimated when Obi-Wan cut his legs and his arm off.

Most powerful Jedi: Yoda
Most powerful Sith: most likely Ragnos
Most powerful force user ever: most likely NJO Luke (who is no "Jedi" or "Sith" in the classical meaning of that words)

Uh, dude... The 20,000 figure... Isn't that from SS? Or was it in TPM? I don't recall.

In any case, why isn't this in the EU section?

The 20.000 thing was actually said in the movies... But nothing more, nothing else. We don't even know if 20.000 is ten times as much as Yoda or just 1 higher then Yoda... And we don't know if Anakin is 300.000 or 20.001

Its still vague as hell...

Hello, everybody, it's me your friendly neighboor supershadow, on this site I temporarily use the name Overlord but do know that I am really this handsome.
But to get to the point, nobody read the EU, and Lucas is laughing at you, on the list he gave me personally it clearly states that Vader is m0s7 p0wahfullll, an s!d!0us w!7h KYb3R cRySt4l h4s 4Ftah Th4t.... Whaabagaboosha, se no pal m0st pwfull, tres cooool tres cooloo killer cool.

Now thank me for personally screwing up little star wars fans.


Anyway, why is the damn poll closed, now someone has to make this thread again!

I can't believe that when this thread was first made I thought Revan was the most powerful ever.

Top eleven( yes i know its wierdo) duelist:

1. Luke Skywalker
2. Darth Sidious
3. Darth Vader
4.Mace windu
5.Yoda
6.Obi-wan
7.Darth Tyrannus
8.Darth Maul
9.Anakin
10. Kid ad-mundi
11. Qui-gon jin

Wow, that's freaky deaky writing.

Yeah, somebody is using a funky keyboard.

And Sidious is pwnt. Han Solo killed him. Most powerful my ass.

Plus he was killed by a man more crippled than he was, the first time around.

Sith my Heineken.

Yeah, when you get benched pressed by a man with no legs or arms it's the end of the line for you.

If ya tell that to someone who's never heard of SW, he's gonna picture Walter Cronkite getting lifted by Mel Gibson's tongue.

Mel's Hussein beard is hilarious.

Marka Ragnos is the most powerful Sith. I don't know who the most powerful Jedi is. Probably NJO Luke.

And as for Sidious.

1. Han Solo shot him in the back, after Sidious picked off the Jedi Knights. And need I remind you he was DYING at the time? Han just helped him along. Still. He must be pretty darn powerful if he was on his deathbed and wiped out Luke and a large contingent of Jedi Knights. Brand was the Jedi who killed him. And he died in the process.

2. Sidious needs to learn not to keep his back on certain people. Lol. Vader was cripped. But he was also in a mechanical suit that multiplied his strength to be double what a man's is. Effectively, Deus, he could 'bench press' any human you'd care to name down a reactor shaft. And, Vader died in the process.

So yes. By that logic I could say Dooku couldn't beat a three foot tall muppet and that Mace got killed by a seventy year old man. But we all know there's more to it than that.

I was just razing the new guy.

I know. You're an evil man, Deus. I see you twirling the mustache and holding kittens hostage!

Don't forget the monocle!

And the Hitlermobile.

Dussenberger? Damn right.

With the Jawas as your own SS?

Nihilus. Until it says that anyone OTHER than Exile can block his force drain attack, he is and will always be able to defeat any jedi/sith past present.

Visas and Mandalore survived it.

yes, but visas was connected to him and mandalore didnt have any force potential.

Wrong. All living being's have force potential. Canderous survived anyway.

How would being connected to the Exile protect Visas?

Originally posted by The Overmaster
yes, but visas was connected to him and mandalore didnt have any force potential. No, I think Mandalore's Visas were all maxed out.

Old Ben when he becomes one with the force.

Originally posted by Darth_Glentract
Visas and Mandalore survived it.

That might have something to do with the fact that Nihilus only drained the Exile...

as most powerful being, exar kun all the way. He's knowledge of the dark side is unsurpassed. He read almost all of the sith scrolls and achieved almost supreme power. His failing (like every other bloody sith) is one of arogance and his intellegence. The wisest being is yoda hands down. The smartest (yes there is a difference between smart and wise) I give to Plageous. Just a question really how can people vote for NJO Luke when Anniken Solo was obviously more powerful. Thats just my opinion and open to debate.

Though many people will hate me for this I must speak my mind. Lucas stop being stupid. According to Lucas himself Darth Vader was the most powerful thing the Universe ever saw, yet he okays all these novels were people become quit oviously more powerful than him.

Originally posted by Dienekes
as most powerful being, exar kun all the way. He's knowledge of the dark side is unsurpassed. He read almost all of the sith scrolls and achieved almost supreme power. His failing (like every other bloody sith) is one of arogance and his intellegence. The wisest being is yoda hands down. The smartest (yes there is a difference between smart and wise) I give to Plageous. Just a question really how can people vote for NJO Luke when Anniken Solo was obviously more powerful. Thats just my opinion and open to debate.

Though many people will hate me for this I must speak my mind. Lucas stop being stupid. According to Lucas himself Darth Vader was the most powerful thing the Universe ever saw, yet he okays all these novels were people become quit oviously more powerful than him.

How is Plageius the smartest if all we know about him comes from a few lines from Sidious, which may or may not be hyperbole to begin with?

How is Exar Kun the most powerful being when he learns FROM the remains of the Ancient Sith, of which much was lost or destroyed?

Yoda is the wisest how? Because he's old? Odan was older than Yoda, does that mean he's wiser than him?

Yes, Lucas did say Anakin had the potential to be the greatest. He also said that he doesn't care for EU and that EU is an alternate universe altogether, so therefore we can't always apply Lucas' word to the EU.

Why bring up a dead thread? Thats spamming, and also your wrong there.

Kun learnt from Naga Sadow, or moreso a fraction of his teachings, and consider Sadow blew up stars and created an tangible army of illusions that were able to kill. Kun is not the most powerful but he certainly surpassed NJO LUke.

Thus here are the current rankings:

1) Marka Ragnos
2) Lord Simus
3) Naga Sadow
4) Ludo Kressh
5) Freedon Nadd
6) DN Luke/Exar Kun
7) DN Luke/Exar Kun
8) DE Sidious

Good rankings

Im going to say Count Dooku but thats just because he is my fav. I dont have any reason to suggest him other than that.

Originally posted by Rampant ox
Im going to say Count Dooku but thats just because he is my fav. I dont have any reason to suggest him other than that.

Dooku is leagues and LEAGUES behind the most powerful Sith Lord.

I love how Sidious some how managed to get into the polls... of course this thread was made waaaayyy back when Sidious was considered the Uber Sith Lord of SW.

Originally posted by Antediluvian
Dooku is leagues and LEAGUES behind the most powerful Sith Lord.

He probably is but he is still my fav. Sorry if I interrupted anyones conversation with my comment !!!

May I ask why a thread that died in November has been revived?

Originally posted by IKC
May I ask why a thread that died in November has been revived?

Because Dienekes decided he was going to comment on a death thread.

I think Coleman Trebor should have been included in the lists

Originally posted by Deception
Thus here are the current rankings:

1) Marka Ragnos
2) Lord Simus
3) Naga Sadow
4) Ludo Kressh
5) Freedon Nadd
6) DN Luke/Exar Kun
7) DN Luke/Exar Kun
8) DE Sidious

Sekot should probably be on the top. He/It took out much of a YV fleet that consisted of hundreds, if not thousands of ships. I think Luke was afraid of the possibility of it falling to the Darkside, as he knew he couldn't stop it if it did.

If you put Sekot up there you mght as well put up Nihilus. Since neither of them are "realistic", I don't know a better word for it, no point including them.

I don't see what you mean. Sekot doesn't just instakill or anything like that.

But Sekot is the actual planet that stripped the Vong from the force is it not? Or am I thinking about something else.

Originally posted by Darth_Glentract
I don't see what you mean. Sekot doesn't just instakill or anything like that.

He is flippin living planet for Christ sake! GAY!

yea

Still...he's pretty badass for a giant rock.

So is excalibur

lol i think njo luke takes it.. he's like a god

NJO Luke followed by Nihilus followed by Jacen/Anakin (full potential) .

LOTF Luke, Darth Nihilus, Marka Ragnos.

Ragnos would be ahead of Nihilus and a lot behind LOTF Luke.

I doubt it, especially after seeing how he pwns Sion. He could even be a match for LOTF Luke. It depends who's quicker I guess.

1) LotF Luke
2) Emperor Palpatine
3) Exar Kun

There's your top three. Yoda, Kyp Durron, and a few others are up there. Ragnos and Nihilius probably are too, but they're unknowns.

Oy. Escape I do not agree with you on your listings especially putting Kun in front of Ragnos, Palpatine MAYBE.. But this is your opinion so more power to you.

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
Oy. Escape I do not agree with you on your listings especially putting Kun in front of Ragnos, Palpatine MAYBE.. But this is your opinion so more power to you.

DS, look. A person who promotes "Ragnos is teh uber!" is like anyone who promotes "Revan is teh uber!". You have nothing to base his power on, save for second hand accounts, and one statement made by an author that applies at that time.

We who say that "Kun and Palpatine are teh uber" have stuff to back us up. You and I both know that you can't give me half of the reasons I can give you for Kun and Palpatine.

So it's best to just drop it until we learn more.

'DS, look. A person who promotes "Ragnos is the uber!" is like anyone who promotes "Revan is the uber!".'

One thing: I consider the sith talismans and artifacts a part of their power. Force power alone - much lower on the list.

'You have nothing to base his power on, save for second hand accounts, and one statement made by an author that applies at that time.'

We can deduce much about him - just look at the older arguments supporting him.

Many of those 'second hand accounts' are pretty accurate and tell us much about him.

We know that he is definitely > Naga Sadow, who has displayed many incredible things.

We can understand the capabilities of his spirit.

We can understand the capabilities of his sceptor.

this quote talk is freaking me out.

Originally posted by Sith'ari
I doubt it, especially after seeing how he pwns Sion. He could even be a match for LOTF Luke. It depends who's quicker I guess.

I actually don't even know why I was arguing this - Luke is so rediculously leagues above everyone else, nobody can touch him.

Originally posted by Escape81
DS, look. A person who promotes "Ragnos is teh uber!" is like anyone who promotes "Revan is teh uber!". You have nothing to base his power on, save for second hand accounts, and one statement made by an author that applies at that time.

We who say that "Kun and Palpatine are teh uber" have stuff to back us up. You and I both know that you can't give me half of the reasons I can give you for Kun and Palpatine.

So it's best to just drop it until we learn more.


What can you give me for Kun exactly? I can give you lots of LOGICAL reasons based on deductions on Ragnos and how his power compares with Sidious. But comparing Kun to Ragnos? I'm interested to see your argument on that.

what about full potential Vader? the 1 without the suit

how about njo luke and nihilus

full potential vader owns them period

no. njo luke n nihilas pwn any-1

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
What can you give me for Kun exactly? I can give you lots of LOGICAL reasons based on deductions on Ragnos and how his power compares with Sidious. But comparing Kun to Ragnos? I'm interested to see your argument on that.

Perhaps not. As far as spirits are concerned, however, Exar's presented far more of a threat than Ragnos's.

Kun:

- Kun's spirit put a post-DE Luke in a coma.
- Kun's spirit imbued Kyp Durron with the power to raise the Sun Crusher.
- Kun's spirit was powerful enough that Luke's new academy had to merge their powers along with Vodo in order to obliterate him from existence. The other time they did that, they pushed Gilad Pellaeon's fleet of seventeen Imperial-class Star Destroyers entirely out of the Yavin System, which took Pellaeon days to return. It also killed Dorsk-81, the chosen vessel for that power.

Ragnos:

- Battled against an above average Jedi Knight and lost, forcing that spirit to go back into exile.

Now, you can argue that Ragnos's spirit was weakened because of its old age, but Ragnos was only a thousand years older than Kun. That seems like a lot, but considering how Kun's spirit was over four thousand years old - and he still did all that crap - I'm not inclined to believe that another millenium stripped Ragnos of that much power.

As for these logical reasons, you've yet to prove that Ragnos didn't need his almighty scepter. Other than that, we know he's the most powerful of the Ancient Sith.

That's it. I'd definately say that Sidious is superior, and I'd argue that Kun is his equal, at least.

Surely the sith talismans that Ragnos posseses puts him on Kun's level?

Originally posted by Sith'ari
Surely the sith talismans that Ragnos posseses puts him on Kun's level?

Pray-tell, have you seen these amulets?

As for Ragnos's scepter, as I recall, it doesn't remove the Force from beings. Tavion tried it on me during the last level, and all it did was just knock me down and (as I recall), strip some of my Force 'level', which regenerated nearly instantly.

Originally posted by Escape81
Perhaps not. As far as spirits are concerned, however, Exar's presented far more of a threat than Ragnos's.

Kun:

- Kun's spirit put a post-DE Luke in a coma.
- Kun's spirit imbued Kyp Durron with the power to raise the Sun Crusher.
- Kun's spirit was powerful enough that Luke's new academy had to merge their powers along with Vodo in order to obliterate him from existence. The other time they did that, they pushed Gilad Pellaeon's fleet of seventeen Imperial-class Star Destroyers entirely out of the Yavin System, which took Pellaeon days to return. It also killed Dorsk-81, the chosen vessel for that power.

Ragnos:

- Battled against an above average Jedi Knight and lost, forcing that spirit to go back into exile.

Now, you can argue that Ragnos's spirit was weakened because of its old age, but Ragnos was only a thousand years older than Kun. That seems like a lot, but considering how Kun's spirit was over four thousand years old - and he still did all that crap - I'm not inclined to believe that another millenium stripped Ragnos of that much power.

As for these logical reasons, you've yet to prove that Ragnos didn't need his almighty scepter. Other than that, we know he's the most powerful of the Ancient Sith.

That's it. I'd definately say that Sidious is superior, and I'd argue that Kun is his equal, at least.

Ok let me explain a few things. You obviously and conveniently forget that Kun possessed the 2nd most powerful force user in the galaxy, while Ragnos possessed a nobody. There's not much to go with gameplay considering Tavion(although stated that if Ragnos returns he will obliterate the Jedi) is a fallible character in the game. But the point is that the spirits would depend mostly on who they possess. And for all you know, 1,000 years DOES make a difference, it's debateable. Or rather as I'm typing this I figured something important out Escape.

Ragnos was a GHOST spirit, while KUN stripped his BODY and was an undead soul. Meaning Kun did what SIDIOUS did, only on a smaller scale, considering Sidious could travel across the galaxy as a soul. So in the end, I don't know how you are comparing a FORCE SPIRIT that is 5,000 years old, to a 4,000 year old undead soul. I don't know why people don't understand this when comparing Kun to any spirit.

The book states that Kun was the power behind Kyp's actions. Also, another indicator is that he is unable to do it after Kun's spirit was destroyed.



Oh, I see. The first four thousand years didn't mean a damn thing, but that fifth one did? Ooh. Nice logic.

Furthermore, has Tavion seen Ragnos in action either? No she hasn't. She has about as much room as Luke to make claims regarding Ragnos.



Because they are essentially the same thing. When Kun's body was removed, he died a physical death, as did Ragnos when he died.

No Escape, they are NOT the same thing. I can argue this all night with you, but the fact remains that what Kun did was unlike what ANYONE else did when they died, save for Palpatine. I don't know if Palpatine got it from Kun or wherever but they essentially both did the same thing, while everyone else died and showed up as force ghosts anywhere. Notice how Kun didn't fully learn the technique or didn't have the full technique which is why he was trapped in the Massassi temple.

If we end up arguing all night, you'd better take some aspirin or something. This illness you've spoke of has recently impaired some of your debating abilities. That's not an insult, but a fact.



Palpatine had no specific anchor, and he's the only Sith Lord to not have one. Kun did. Ragnos did.



Well, as of Jedi Academy, Ragnos was trapped on Korriban.

Originally posted by Escape81
If we end up arguing all night, you'd better take some aspirin or something. This illness you've spoke of has recently impaired some of your debating abilities. That's not an insult, but a fact.

When you show me the last time I lost a debate with you, then I'll take your constructive criticism seriously.


Well, as of Jedi Academy, Ragnos was trapped on Korriban.

This is the best you can do? And you're telling ME to take an aspirin? Interesting. This is too easy but I will respond in respect to you. Ragnos was buried on Korriban, period. You have absolutely no evidence that he was trapped, that's just a ridiculous assumption. On the other hand, can you show me a spirit over 1,000 years old that roamed freely around the galaxy? I'm just wondering, not to mention a 5,000 year old spirit. Despite the fact that you have absolutely no evidence whatsoever, I tend to think that at 5,000 years old, you tend to be one with the force and aren't free to move about the galaxy. This all of course is secondary to the simple fact that Kun was not a dead spirit nor a force ghost, so your points are illogical.

i know i may be wrong but isnt exar kun the only sith spirit ?

Man, this spirit talk has got me to thinking about Ajunta Pall. Was his spirit not over ten thousand years old? He must have been incredible.

true. i want them to write a novel on him. like they're doing on darth bane it looks good. can't wait till it comes out. their also making a plagueis one.

Yeah, I'm hoping they do books on Hord, Pall, Adas and perhaps Xendor and Nadd too. Or at least go more into their story through comics for instance.

No, Pall was around 3,000 years old as a spirit, yet still had powerful abilities.

yeah it would be so cool if they focused on making ancient sith for a while... theres no point for them to continue making luke/han/leia novels cause their getting old. gonna die if they continue

a. That statement was not intended to offend you. However, you yourself have confessed that you haven't exactly been on top of your game here recently.

b. Want me to give you some quotes of here recently when you've grossly misinterpreted one of my arguments, because of this illness or sheer lethargy? To prove that you have been wrong simply because you haven't read completely? I'm pretty sure Jollyjim, Advent, or Lightsnake would even back me up there.

c. And, lastly, are you insinuating that you have defeated all my points before, that I lose all my arguments with you, and that you are a better debator than myself? You may think what you'd like, but I will forewarn you that I believe most people here think otherwise.



I'm sorry, is your ego on overdrive today?



I recommend re-playing Jedi Academy.



See above.



Seems to me that you've been implying this entire time that older = better. Surely, Marka Ragnos - the most powerful Sith Lord ever - should be able to travel freely around the galaxy.

I mean, if Palpatine can do it, why can't Ragnos?

Oh yeah...



Really? May I ask you for proof?



Kun was stripped from his body. His body went bye-bye. That is a physical death. Ragnos died a physical death. Both were referred as spirits. That's enough for me.

Originally posted by Escape81
a. That statement was not intended to offend you. However, you yourself have confessed that you haven't exactly been on top of your game here recently.

Nevertheless, show me where I'm not on top of my game in this debate. When Im not on top of my game I let people know beforehand so there is no confusion.

b. Want me to give you some quotes of here recently when you've grossly misinterpreted one of my arguments, because of this illness or sheer lethargy? To prove that you have been wrong simply because you haven't read completely? I'm pretty sure Jollyjim, Advent, or Lightsnake would even back me up there.

When I am wrong, it is BECAUSE of sheer lethargy, unwillingness to read, or poor comprehension, I never denied that.

c. And, lastly, are you insinuating that you have defeated all my points before, that I lose all my arguments with you, and that you are a better debator than myself? You may think what you'd like, but I will forewarn you that I believe most people here think otherwise.

Are you insinuating that I am insinuating that you lost all of your arguments, or even half of them? Where are you getting this? I didn't say I was a better debator than you, nor do I think you are a better debator than myself. Maybe more knowledgable in the Star Wars Universe but that hardly means you're a better debator.



Seems to me that you've been implying this entire time that older = better. Surely, Marka Ragnos - the most powerful Sith Lord ever - should be able to travel freely around the galaxy.

I never said older is better, youre misunderstanding the concept of a ghost spirit and an undead soul(other thread btw)

I mean, if Palpatine can do it, why can't Ragnos?

Because once again, Ragnos died of old age and became a ghost, Palpatine never died because he found the power of immortality.



Kun was stripped from his body. His body went bye-bye. That is a physical death. Ragnos died a physical death. Both were referred as spirits. That's enough for me.

Yet Kun stripped his mortal soul of his body, and became undead, sort of a zombie, which was trapped inside the Massassi temple, while everybody else died. Palpatine and Kun essentially did the same thing, so please don't use that "It works for me" line just because I support my particular argument better.

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
Are you insinuating that I am insinuating that you lost all of your arguments, or even half of them? Where are you getting this? I didn't say I was a better debator than you, nor do I think you are a better debator than myself. Maybe more knowledgable in the Star Wars Universe but that hardly means you're a better debator.

I really don't think anyone here is a "debator". I'm pretty sure we're all "debaters".

Why the hell did I spell it debator.. Damn

Originally posted by Advent
I really don't think anyone here is a "debator". I'm pretty sure we're all "debaters".

I referred to it with an "o" as well.

thats where I got it from, damnit.

everyone keep on debating

wouldnt vader at his full potential be the strongest? the 1 if he didnt suffer his injuries. GL said anakin would be the strongest force user who ever lived had he not sustained his injuries.

Luke has the same potential as Vader. And he's reached it

Originally posted by Lightsnake
Luke has the same potential as Vader. And he's reached it
Not this again...

Care to argue with Lucas now?

No more than you do, you reptile.

Cute. Have an actual argument?

Do you have an actual argument for you one-sided love affair with Luke Skywalker? On Second thought, I don't want to know...

Oh, and GL stated in The making of RotS(book) and I think in some B.T.S. thing that Anakin Would become the most powerful Force User Ever. Saying Luke, Leia, or any of his offspring would equal him not only contradicts him, but is illogical.

He also made a nice little mention of Luke's potential equaling Anakin's by the OT.

How's that for an argument? I think this's open and shut.

Originally posted by Lightsnake
Cute. Have an actual argument?


He doesn't, but neither do you. At any rate Xepelyon, Lucas did state Luke=Anakin, so they are equal in force potential. No telling who would win if they fought though although I'm tending to side with Anakin considering the fact that he had a lot more time to study and the quality of his studying(Sidious) was incredible. Luke came after and had Ossus though, so it would be interesting.

Ihaven't actually read that much post OT stuff, and was wondering who is the better saber prodigy out of them.

Lemme put it this way: With saber abilities alone, Luke demolishes an army of Vong.

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
He doesn't, but neither do you. At any rate Xepelyon, Lucas did state Luke=Anakin, so they are equal in force potential. No telling who would win if they fought though although I'm tending to side with Anakin considering the fact that he had a lot more time to study and the quality of his studying(Sidious) was incredible. Luke came after and had Ossus though, so it would be interesting.


When did Lucas state that? (Just asking)

So wouldn't full potential Luke be more powerful than full potential Anakin?

Exactly the same

yea i think so but i believed anakin could have surpassed luke because he is in the darkside and he draws his power from his rage and anger. see the fight with anakin and dooku in rots? anakin attacks dooku with rage and manages to slice his hand off