Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.

I did a search, and didn't see anything on this. Please forgive and direct me if it is already there.

Anyhow, I thought it may be an interesting fight.

I think Iceman has it, but I'm not nearly as knowledgable as some of you on the abilities these guys have.

I'd go with Iceman on this one...sooner or later the cold always wins over the heat

Iceman wins.

Iceman is more powerful than the torch now.

Now and always.

lol

This is a toughie because if the Human Torch fires some fire,Iceman can freeze it and if Iceman fires some ice,the Human Torch can melt it.I'll have to think about it.

Not a bad way to look at it at all there, Zod. I have the same feelings towards it.

Though, when given the extent of both of their powers, I would have to say that Iceman would win, just through sheer power and of course experience. Not saying that HT doesn't have experience either, but Iceman's arsenal is just a little too much for the flame.

Yeah,Iceman has trianed more with his powers so he would know how to counteract the Human Torch's moves.

This might be one of the hardest to call. I think Human Torch wins because of his speed. I think this fight will boil downs to who is the better fighter, because their energy projections will just cancel each other out, being ice and fire. And with Human Torch's speed and fighting skills, this would give him the advantage.

Iceman has become godly

I'm still undecided.

Iceman is godly now.

Since when? I must be out of touch.

he is godly....he is also one of the twelve (ones that Apoc thought were the twelve most powerful mutants)....and he can do more than just freeze the air around HT or his flames......he can freeze the motion of the molecules moving (stopping the movement) that produce the flames.....so iceman wins

10/10 imo

yep yep

I guess Iceman is Godly...if he is godly and have those powers, then this shouldn't be a contest...but if we are talking about their regular strengths and energies...then hats off to human torch.

I'd say tie in that case.

Originally posted by shaolin9976
I guess Iceman is Godly...if he is godly and have those powers, then this shouldn't be a contest...but if we are talking about their regular strengths and energies...then hats off to human torch.


actually these now are icemans regular powers....its always been hinted that he was that powerful but he's never shown any of his potiental until recently (X-men Forever)....i had a thread about all his powers but now it says that the thread doesnt exist and its an invalid link....urgghh!!!

"do you not realize Iceman is....immortal?"

he's playing devils advocate.

Well, when Iceman and Torch fought in the 70's, powerwise Iceman used his powers more efficeint. He made it rain and put out torches flame.

Hand to hand, they stalemated until Cyclops came and broke up the fight with a optic beam.

Imo they both should have whooped Cyclpos's ass.

90's Iceman would whoop Torches ass. Bobby was able to increase mass, making himself stronger. He could also just freeze the bloodflow to Torch's brain.

Iceman wins! Iceman wins! Iceman wins!

I would say it would be a knockout tie.....immortals can be knocked out...now if someone can show me where iceman can survive the heat of a star going nova right on top of him give it to the iceman....otherwise I believe HT would realize Icemans superiority and would go nova on him to put him out...which doing that for long enough to put iceman out would also make him collapse...and I dont "think" iceman when confronted with nova class heat could concentrate on freezing the bloodflow to HTs' brain...I could be wrong on this one but iceman cannot repair himself if he has been evaporated....nova heat is not capable of such a feat? If he in the process of going nova "evaporated" iceman would IM be able to keep his conciousness intact?

Originally posted by Jack Daniels
I would say it would be a knockout tie.....immortals can be knocked out...now if someone can show me where iceman can survive the heat of a star going nova right on top of him give it to the iceman....otherwise I believe HT would realize Icemans superiority and would go nova on him to put him out...which doing that for long enough to put iceman out would also make him collapse...and I dont "think" iceman when confronted with nova class heat could concentrate on freezing the bloodflow to HTs' brain...I could be wrong on this one but iceman cannot repair himself if he has been evaporated....nova heat is not capable of such a feat? If he in the process of going nova "evaporated" iceman would IM be able to keep his conciousness intact?

Well if it were strictly fists, I agree in a tie. Although Iceman can add ice mass to his fists giving his punches more power.

I do think tht it takes a charge up or time for Torch to go nova. Can Iceman take the heat? Nope.

Iceman freezing the bloodflow to the brain take no effort at all. When he did it to Emma, he wasnt even looking at her. He had his back turned and was looking out the window. Its pretty much instant.

Steam has moisture. And as long as there is moisture in the air, Iceman will always be able to reform.

Bobbys the man.

Can new godly Iceman survive being superheated past the gas state into ionised plasma?

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
Can new godly Iceman survive being superheated past the gas state into ionised plasma?

Doubt it.

Is Iceman in Superman level already?

Originally posted by shaolin9976
Is Iceman in Superman level already?

Theres a Iceman vs Superman thread about that one.

He's damned close.

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
Can new godly Iceman survive being superheated past the gas state into ionised plasma?

being a Mutant, Iceman's powers originate from his genetic structure....HT's nova flame facilitates fusion on the atomic level...IMO that would mean Torch's nova blasts would be lethal to Drake.

Originally posted by Wynndar
being a Mutant, Iceman's powers originate from his genetic structure....HT's nova flame facilitates fusion on the atomic level...IMO that would mean Torch's nova blasts would be lethal to Drake.

I agree. BUT im sure that Iceman freezing the blood flow to Torch's brain would kill him as well.

Plus, Bobby can get that off before Torch gets of the nova flame.

From reading that Iceman is Godly,I think that he will win this fight.And the Human Torch hasn't reached his full potential with his powers because he doesn't really train.Iceman on the otherhand has had years of training.


Can someone post some pictures of the new Iceman?

ill see what pics i have of him and post them tomorrow....theres no real change though...its still him just with an improvement on his powers....

Originally posted by Zod4Life
From reading that Iceman is Godly,I think that he will win this fight.And the Human Torch hasn't reached his full potential with his powers because he doesn't really train.Iceman on the otherhand has had years of training.


Can someone post some pictures of the new Iceman?

I think they are about equal in years of experience. Though Torch may have 2 extra years on Bobby.

Heres current Iceman in action.

more..

the fight continues

Iceman victorious.

Thank you buddy.

Originally posted by Zod4Life
From reading that Iceman is Godly,I think that he will win this fight.And the Human Torch hasn't reached his full potential with his powers because he doesn't really train.Iceman on the otherhand has had years of training.


Can someone post some pictures of the new Iceman?

Torch trains more and has way more experience. Iceman cant freeze torch's brain or anything...torch has complete control of the heat energy around him....I would ssay his control is more powerful than Iceman's. Torch has control of heat energy...if he wants, although he rarely does it, torch can freeze things as well...

Originally posted by Wynndar
Torch trains more and has way more experience. Iceman cant freeze torch's brain or anything...torch has complete control of the heat energy around him....I would ssay his control is more powerful than Iceman's. Torch has control of heat energy...if he wants, although he rarely does it, torch can freeze things as well...

Torch has about 3 years experience on Iceman at most. I think any x-men trains more than a F.F member.

Ummm. Torch can control the heat and flow of his blood? If so, can you prove that?

How do X-men train more than the FF....Iceman hasnt even been on the roster of the X-men the whole time. Torch doesnt have any special blood flow controlling powers...but he has ultimate control of temperature in his vacinity...read the issue of FF where he beat graviton.

Iceman freezes molecules surrounding the flame which is full of them, the flame stops, torch crashes midair and dies.

Originally posted by Wynndar
How do X-men train more than the FF....Iceman hasnt even been on the roster of the X-men the whole time. Torch doesnt have any special blood flow controlling powers...but he has ultimate control of temperature in his vacinity...read the issue of FF where he beat graviton.

Danger room perhaps. True Iceman hasnt been on the roster the whole time, but he left heroing for no more than 3 years.

Plus the threats X-men deal with on a basis are more than what the FF deals with on a daily basis.

Iceman has ultimate control of temperature in his vacinity as well. But having control of temerature inside you is different from having control over the temp around you.

When Torch and Iceman fought, Torch tried to make a fire ring around Bobby, but Iceman made a rain cloud and douced the fire ring as well as Torch.

Torch had to land before he went splat on the concrete, then engaged Bobby in hand to hand.

Iceman cant freeze the molecules around Torch because Torch has control of the temperature in his vicinity...even the temperature of the bodies of people around him...read his fight with graviton. and how can u freeze plasma into ice? Its not hot water vapor around the Torch, its plasma, just a bunch of protons, neutrons, and electrons bouncing around with no atomic structure...not water.

Originally posted by Wynndar
Iceman cant freeze the molecules around Torch because Torch has control of the temperature in his vicinity...even the temperature of the bodies of people around him...read his fight with graviton. and how can u freeze plasma into ice? Its not hot water vapor around the Torch, its plasma, just a bunch of protons, neutrons, and electrons bouncing around with no atomic structure...not water.

Iceman controls the temperature around him as well.

Freeze plazma into ice? Iceman doesnt have to frze anything. When they fought, he simply made a rain cloud and the rain douced his flame. No ice.

This is the new iceman, who can do some things to superman, torch stands no chance, the FF is a different story, but I'm still undecided.

Im talking aobout new and classic.

The comic im reffering to was their team up issue from the 70's. He clearly had more control over Torch in that battle.

I had assumed current, which is a 10/10 easily.

The F4 would get their asses handed to them fighting Superman.

Originally posted by jrodslam
Iceman controls the temperature around him as well.

Freeze plazma into ice? Iceman doesnt have to frze anything. When they fought, he simply made a rain cloud and the rain douced his flame. No ice.

Concerning Torch being doused, thats totally up to the writer...but if Torch elavates his level high enough, no matter of water will douse it....U realize the Torch has burned right through the entire planet Mars and popped out the other side...and that he once burned a hole right to the core of the planet and heated it up causing the Earth to increase in size? Torch doesnt use his most intense flame against other good guys like Drake...but if he did use Nova on Drake he would be atomized and dead.

Originally posted by CorderaMitchell
I had assumed current, which is a 10/10 easily.

Current Torch?

What are his powers?

Originally posted by Wynndar
Concerning Torch being doused, thats totally up to the writer...but if Torch elavates his level high enough, no matter of water will douse it....U realize the Torch has burned right through the entire planet Mars and popped out the other side...and that he once burned a hole right to the core of the planet and heated it up causing the Earth to increase in size? Torch doesnt use his most intense flame against other good guys like Drake...but if he did use Nova on Drake he would be atomized and dead.

You just proved what ive been trying to say. Torch's natural flame can and has neen douced.

He has to make the flame go nova in order to evaporate the water on contact? Of course Bobby would be atomized. I dont doubt that.

However.....Iceman freezing the blood flow to the brain is instant. Torch going nova isnt. That was the point i was trying to make.

limited control of EM spectrum between Infrared and Ultraviolet, Ability to match the heat of a small star, ability to create flame constructs and images, ability to control temperature in his vacinity to an undetermined distance, etc

That sounds like regular Torch to me.

No upgrades or anything? How does he stalemate current Iceman?

Current Iceman kills current torch pretty easily. The only way he could be destroyed is if Johnny went nova and atomized/ionized Bobby and he couldn't do that before Bobby's killed him.

Classic Iceman vs Torch is probably a stalemate.

his powers continually grow with time. He doesnt need upgrades...Iceman has never faced the Torch when he was using excessive temperatures or powers. When he fights someone who is a big threat and or elemental like him ie Graviton, then he really cuts loose....read the fight between him and Graviton, its really good.

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
Current Iceman kills current torch pretty easily. The only way he could be destroyed is if Johnny went nova and atomized/ionized Bobby and he couldn't do that before Bobby's killed him.

Classic Iceman vs Torch is probably a stalemate.

Agreed.

Originally posted by Wynndar
his powers continually grow with time. He doesnt need upgrades...Iceman has never faced the Torch when he was using excessive temperatures or powers. When he fights someone who is a big threat and or elemental like him ie Graviton, then he really cuts loose....read the fight between him and Graviton, its really good.


True Torch have never had an upgrade, but Bobby's always had the potential. Hes been hearing that since day 1. Problem is he never proved himself of being what his potential is.

I have no doubts torch would fry Bobby, but he just cant get off the k.o. blow as fast as Iceman though.

Originally posted by jrodslam
True Torch have never had an upgrade, but Bobby's always had the potential. Hes been hearing that since day 1. Problem is he never proved himself of being what his potential is.

I have no doubts torch would fry Bobby, but he just cant get off the k.o. blow as fast as Iceman though.

Torch is faster than Iceman.

Originally posted by Cosmic Cube
Torch is faster than Iceman.

In the air true. But he cant get too far away or his attacks wont reach, or Bobby would dodge them. Vise versa.

how fast is torch? Because when he does his mouisture inversion thing Bobby can pretty much teleport, thats how fast he can be.....and Icemans method of attact (freeze brain) is faster that HT's nova....if anybody wants I can post information on icemans powers later.

Originally posted by Blair Wind
how fast is torch? Because when he does his mouisture inversion thing Bobby can pretty much teleport, thats how fast he can be.....and Icemans method of attact (freeze brain) is faster that HT's nova....if anybody wants I can post information on icemans powers later.

I'm going to have to agree with that. Using IM's new powers, he could pretty much appear anywhere where there's a water source. So speed in this situation is pretty futile. And IM's attacks and deathblow attack exceptionally quicker than HT. HT would be thinking about going Nova when his brain shuts down from lack of blood. He falls to the ground, twitching. Iceman is just too powerful nowadays for HT to take him. Don't get me wrong, I like HT, he's uber powerful. And if IM had no clue what was going on, then yes, HT would Nova him to nothing. But IM's not going to let that happen. He could attack HT so many different ways and kill him before the first rise in temperature from HT.

Has Human Torch ever gone Nova on Earth and anywhere near civilization? Just curious.

Human Torch speed is Supersonic...according to Marvel Encyclopedia...that's pretty fast in my book.

Current Iceman can't be hurt by anything less than a nova flame from current Torch. In the time that takes, Iceman could have already killed him. I can't see Johnny winning this.

I don't know why the writers of Marvel made Iceman Godly...

Well I'm assuming he can still be killed by super-intense heat and psionic attack.

Iceman is simply too much for torch now.

The new Iceman just blows...they made him too powerful...it's just not interesting anymore.

much like superman, and the hulk.

Superman and the Hulk started out with great powers...so that's understanding...but the Iceman...i don't know...

Yea i love them, but the reading gets stale.

Thats why hes my favorite comic character of all time.

The guy is just coool.

That's a very good explanation of his new powers. He can survive as water vapour but can he survive being ionized/atomized into plasma by incredibly extreme temperature.

coooooooooooooooooooooooool........... get it?

anyone have a good site on the Torch's powers? want to know more about his powers other than just fire....but i cant find anything useful

Originally posted by Blair Wind
he is godly....he is also one of the twelve (ones that Apoc thought were the twelve most powerful mutants)

Thats not what the 12 were (the reasons were a little silly and complicated), but I agree that Iceman is one of the most powerful mutants, or at least he has the potential to be (an Omega mutant)

I thought Iceman was an Omega. In that he has unlimited potential.

yep he is.....but the twelve i was refering was something different to being Omega.....but I agree it was weird....again anyone have any good HT sites for his powers? not just a generalization but a lot of info...