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no prep time fight in new york. who wins?

The Punisher will smoke Batman!

Batman beats on whackjobs like Punisher on a weekly basis

But look at all of the different kinds of weaponary that the Punisher has.He can kill Batman with any one of those guns he has.

The problem is will he be able to land a hit on Batman with one. If Batman got up close it would be all over for the Punisher.

Originally posted by JediMasterLuke5
The problem is will he be able to land a hit on Batman with one. If Batman got up close it would be all over for the Punisher.

Upclose is where the Punisher would have his best chance of winning this fight, he almost has superhuman durability. He has taken point blank rubber bullets to the face with out lossing consciousness. Frank has been been stabbed then had a rip blown out with a shotgun and still managed to beat the crap out the villian of the story... then he jumped out of a three story building clean across the parking lot!

IMO Frank will take everything that Batman throws at him and keep coming. The guy is a machine and will Bruce down in the end... but he will take one hell of a beating in the process.

The Punisher will take one hell of a beating in a fight and he will fight to the very end.In the Punisher movie he got shot in the chest,almost got blew up,got stabbed in the chest and still survived.This is one tough egg to crack and that's why he's one of my favorite heroes of all time.

Originally posted by Zod4Life
The Punisher will take one hell of a beating in a fight and he will fight to the very end.In the Punisher movie he got shot in the chest,almost got blew up,got stabbed in the chest and still survived.This is one tough egg to crack and that's why he's one of my favorite heroes of all time.


we all know taht what happens in a movie has little basis on what happens in de books. punisher is a tough cookie. but bats kicks guys like him aound every month.

bats is stronger, faster, more skilled, and could prolly shoot a gun better too

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
Upclose is where the Punisher would have his best chance of winning this fight, he almost has superhuman durability. He has taken point blank rubber bullets to the face with out lossing consciousness. Frank has been been stabbed then had a rip blown out with a shotgun and still managed to beat the crap out the villian of the story... then he jumped out of a three story building clean across the parking lot!

Which is why I hate punisher.

OK, I don't know a whole lot about the Punisher, but I know a little about the Bat. The Punisher is an assassin, right? So his mission will be based on taking out specific targets. Whereas Batman is somewhat prepared for the unexpected he may encounter, since he goes out every night and fights crime. I would have to go with the Bat, but as I said I am a bit uninformed of what the Punisher can bring to the game.



Prepares to be flamed.

Batman kills the Punisher in this match...Let's see...Batman is a better hand to hand combatant, has more gadgets, and is smarter and more canning than the Punisher...so I don't really see why Batma would lose this one.

Batman got hit by future Superman and was still standing after...

Now that's what you call durability!

Batman!

Punisher would win.
I'm glad these two finally are fighting because both of them are fighting guys with super powers in other threads and it's just silly.

Batman wins he is too good

Originally posted by WAF3001
Punisher would win.
I'm glad these two finally are fighting because both of them are fighting guys with super powers in other threads and it's just silly.

Batman!

this should've had a poll.

Batman still wins though. What is durablity going to do you if your trap in ice or tied up?

Durability...is for taking Superman's hits and still getting up to fight back!..And Batman did that!

They both have pretty good durability. Punisher has put up with Wolverine. This battle is mainly about pride!

It doesn't matter what kind of pride the Punisher have...Batman outranks him in almost every level.

No, he doesn't.

Frank could take Batman.

He's not just some trigger happy vigilante or goon, he's a highly trained special forces and SEAL operative. He's Marvel's equivalent to Rambo. Hand to hand, Frank is no slouch, he's highly trained in close quarters combat. It's more regemented and not as varied as Batman (127+ martial arts supposedly), focusing more on lethal blows to suit his purposes, but it is as extensive, and he uses it with lethal intentions at most times, unlike Batman who is more into incapacitation than killing of his opponents. Frank is a world class marksman and packs a nice assortment of weaponry on him at all times. He packs the same smoke and gas implements as Batman, but also carries frag and phosphorus grenades, and an assortment of guns, notably his modified M-60 that can let off upwards of 300 7.62mm rounds in a minute with varying ordinance. Frank's use of stealth and guile in a combat situation is extremely comparable to Batman. Batman simply outclasses him in detective skills and number of martial arts known, while Frank packs enough weapons and ammunition for a whole batallion and has no second thoughts on shooting to kill.

I'd take Frank without prep.

Good point...But just because Batman doesn't kill his opponent, it does not mean he is weak...I'm sure if he wants to, he can kill his enemies easily...Batman outranks the Punisher in combat, intelligence, detective skills, and has more advanced gadgets than the Punisher...even without Prep, Batman would smoke the Punisher....None of the Punisher weapons will be effective if he can't find his enemy...that's exactly what Batman would do...

Let's Go Punisher Let's Go

Originally posted by DarkCrawler
Batman got hit by future Superman and was still standing after...

yea,, this is as bad as wolverine coming back from a drop of blood.

Without prep I'd say frank as his weapons are more direct assault and more powerful in that nature, whilst bats is circumstancial.

Both are made to be gods in their books anyway though.

Blame it on the writers...

Punisher killed a bear with his bare hands.Captain America himself stated the Punisher is one of the few guys near to his rank of physical form and fightning skills.
Batman messing with Frank Castle will find out that he's not only a heartless justifier but he can also kick some serious butts.

It's funny how the punisher is all of a sudden a superhuman, when all he is, is a vigilante with some training.

Originally posted by shaolin9976
Good point...But just because Batman doesn't kill his opponent, it does not mean he is weak...I'm sure if he wants to, he can kill his enemies easily...Batman outranks the Punisher in combat, intelligence, detective skills, and has more advanced gadgets than the Punisher...even without Prep, Batman would smoke the Punisher....None of the Punisher weapons will be effective if he can't find his enemy...that's exactly what Batman would do...

Nah, Batman only has Frank in the science and detective fields. When it comes to combat, Frank is right there, he just doesn't know as many forms of martial arts. His h2h training is more catered to killing (special ops military training), it's an extensive curriculum, just not as varied as what Bruce put himself through learning all those various styles. Frank is a great tactician and has extensive experience from his military campaigns, as well as being a vigilante. He was a very highly decorated soldier before turning into the Punisher. He plans out all of his hits thoroughly, including contingency plans. He's trained in the use of stealth just as well as Batman. Ninjas are not the only people that know how to sneak up on someone undetected and put a knife to your throat or through your heart. He's not as much of a whiz on the computer as Bruce is, but you give Frank a target that doesn't have a biomatrix or X-gene that allows them to manipulate the EM spectrum, and he'll find a way to kill it.

This fight is no prep; Batman is not going to be packing a boomtube generator or Mr. Freeze's ice cannon, he's going to have his normal night patrol implements against Frank's normal night patrol implements, which are mainly lethal in Frank's case.

Frank can and will kill Bruce.

Originally posted by Solidus Snake
bats is stronger, faster, more skilled, and could prolly shoot a gun better too
Says who ?

Batman and Punisher are very equal. Batman is probably a better fighter, but Punisher is tougher, so that equals things out a bit.

It can go either way, but Batman will only win because he's so much more popular than Punisher.

Batman has taken out people who would destroy Punisher in a fight.
Batman has gone a few rounds with Etrigan The Demon recently.
Punisher is a badass, but he's NOT as good as Batman.
He's a military-type green beret/SEAL/special forces expert.
Best on the planet at that.
Batman is a martial arts master and acrobat supreme.
Punisher can take a LOT of punishment.
I'll give him that, but he's NOT beating Batman in H2H.

Batman:

Master detective with a brilliant detective mind; quite possibly the greatest martial artist alive; Bat-costume is bulletproof and fire-resistant, featuring a weighted cape and a cowl outfitted with night-vision technology and communication arrays; utility belt contains an arsenal of crime-fighting gear, including varies types of offensive batarangs, de-cel jumplines and grapnels, micro-camera, smoke pellets, acetylene torch, gas mask, rebreather, and flexi-cuffs among other miniaturized lethal weaons...just to name some.

So without prep, I'm pretty sure the Bat can deal with the Punisher just the same.

Originally posted by shaolin9976
So without prep, I'm pretty sure the Bat can deal with the Punisher just the same.
Possibly... I give it too Batman too by the way... but it will cost him some broken ribs.

It wouldn't be the first time Batman breaks a bone to beat a wanna be bad a$$!

I give it to the Bat, but yeah, a fight with Punisher
will not be a healthy experience for Bruce.

"Alfred, bring your first surgical kit and bottle of Wild Turkey, beeyatch."

Originally posted by shaolin9976
Batman:

Master detective with a brilliant detective mind; quite possibly the greatest martial artist alive; Bat-costume is bulletproof and fire-resistant, featuring a weighted cape and a cowl outfitted with night-vision technology and communication arrays; utility belt contains an arsenal of crime-fighting gear, including varies types of offensive batarangs, de-cel jumplines and grapnels, micro-camera, smoke pellets, acetylene torch, gas mask, rebreather, and flexi-cuffs among other miniaturized lethal weaons...just to name some.

So without prep, I'm pretty sure the Bat can deal with the Punisher just the same.

That must be one heavy utility belt.

Punisher, a wanna be bad ass ? No disrespect for Batman, though he is indeed the better skilled one (barely), I would think Punisher is the true "bad ass".

Punisher doesn't hold back, doesn't mind killing, is wanted by the law AND by the underworld and is a freaking tank.

Batman isn't "bad ass". He's just an ass (only kidding lol).

So I guess being a criminal and a killer makes you bad A$$...it's hard to argue with that...all I'm saying is there is no way the Punisher takes the batman even without prep...and yes I'm sure it's a heavy utility belt..that's you have to be in the peak human strength to be carrying th crap around!

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
That must be one heavy utility belt.
Yeah, that has also been one of my points whenever I'm discussing Batman. That belt has to be endless. But when you look at it, it's really not that big.

Strange strange...

Originally posted by shaolin9976
It's funny how the punisher is all of a sudden a superhuman, when all he is, is a vigilante with some training.
Some training?
Punisher is one of the most skilled hth fighters in Marvel Earth, he was a member of green caps in vietnam and probably the best member of the corp.He shooted to SPIDER-MAN, his accuracy countered Spidey's reflexes.

Originally posted by Zahit
Batman has taken out people who would destroy Punisher in a fight.
Batman has gone a few rounds with Etrigan The Demon recently.
Punisher is a badass, but he's NOT as good as Batman.
He's a military-type green beret/SEAL/special forces expert.
Best on the planet at that.
Batman is a martial arts master and acrobat supreme.
Punisher can take a LOT of punishment.
I'll give him that, but he's NOT beating Batman in H2H.
Etrigan the Demon?That CRAP writing.
Punisher can be hitted from 3 or more 44 magnum bullets and keep fight, he's mad, he's not one of Batman's enemies with SOME training.
If Captain America states Frank Castle he's one of the fews near or at his lev means Batman isn't winning easy.
Batman supreme acrobat?
Punisher usually perform acrobatic feats meanwhile shooting.

And Punisher matching Spider-Man's reflex is not crap writing?

Batman will get capped.

A hail of hollow tip armor piercing bullets from Frank's 60 and some frag grenades will take Bruce down. Frank is downright surgical with a gun.

If this was a "solve a crime" competition or a "figure out how to counteract this person's special powers and take them down using my database and advanced computer" competition, Batman all the way.

But in a straight up drop of a dime deathmatch, I'd take Frank. Batman's main advantage is nullified.

This is spontaneous and to the death

That's what the Punisher does.

Kill.

This is two men in bullet proof suits:

one has bat shaped ninja stars, grappling hooks, gas grenades, smoke grenades, c4, flares, etc;

the other has a modified automatic assault rifle that can pop off over 300 rounds in a minute and reloads in seconds, dual Desert Eagles, a Magnum, dual micro SMGs, a sniper rifle, gas grenades, smoke grenades, c4, frag grenades, flares, etc.

Come on now.

No prep it's gotta be Frank.

I'm changing my answer to Double Knock Out

Like I said before...how can you kill someone you don't see.

Batman is not invisible. Are you mad!!!!

Originally posted by illadelph12
Batman will get capped.

A hail of hollow tip armor piercing bullets from Frank's 60 and some frag grenades will take Bruce down. Frank is downright surgical with a gun.

If this was a "solve a crime" competition or a "figure out how to counteract this person's special powers and take them down using my database and advanced computer" competition, Batman all the way.

But in a straight up drop of a dime deathmatch, I'd take Frank. Batman's main advantage is nullified.

This is spontaneous and to the death

That's what the Punisher does.

Kill.

This is two men in bullet proof suits:

one has bat shaped ninja stars, grappling hooks, gas grenades, smoke grenades, c4, flares, etc;

the other has a modified automatic assault rifle that can pop off over 300 rounds in a minute and reloads in seconds, dual Desert Eagles, a Magnum, dual micro SMGs, a sniper rifle, gas grenades, smoke grenades, c4, frag grenades, flares, etc.

Come on now.

No prep it's gotta be Frank.

sure he isn't...but assuming that the punisher finds where batman is hiding..do you really think he'll just stand there and get shot...just a thought.

I thought this was just a straight up fight. Does Punisher have to go searching for Batman through the city or something?

Originally posted by WAF3001
Batman is not invisible. Are you mad!!!!

He can get invisble. And in the the dark he is barely visible.

Originally posted by illadelph12
Batman will get capped.

A hail of hollow tip armor piercing bullets from Frank's 60 and some frag grenades will take Bruce down. Frank is downright surgical with a gun.

If this was a "solve a crime" competition or a "figure out how to counteract this person's special powers and take them down using my database and advanced computer" competition, Batman all the way.

But in a straight up drop of a dime deathmatch, I'd take Frank. Batman's main advantage is nullified.

This is spontaneous and to the death

That's what the Punisher does.

Kill.

This is two men in bullet proof suits:

one has bat shaped ninja stars, grappling hooks, gas grenades, smoke grenades, c4, flares, etc;

the other has a modified automatic assault rifle that can pop off over 300 rounds in a minute and reloads in seconds, dual Desert Eagles, a Magnum, dual micro SMGs, a sniper rifle, gas grenades, smoke grenades, c4, frag grenades, flares, etc.

Come on now.

No prep it's gotta be Frank.

With prep, Batman would have taken this in consideration. He'll know when and where to fight Frank. Most likey in his terrain, a dark area. Frank won't now where Bruce is, thus giving Batman the upper-hand.

Its elementary dear Watson.

Batman is not the only person in this fight that can effectively use stealth and cover.

A Sniple rifle and thermals are really good for stakeout hits.

No prep. I assume that they run into each other and just fight because they're both very angry psychologically damaged men.

Straight up fight? Batman knows his strengths and weaknesses...he will not fight who has a deathwish straight up...he will use his brains and outsmart Punisher...which will be the result of his victory!

Originally posted by shaolin9976
Straight up fight? Batman knows his strengths and weaknesses...he will not fight who has a deathwish straight up...he will use his brains and outsmart Punisher...which will be the result of his victory!



Originally posted by illadelph12
Batman is not the only person in this fight that can effectively use stealth and cover.

A Sniple rifle and thermals are really good for stakeout hits.

Not if Batman constantly keeps moving.

Originally posted by Freaky Zeeky
He can get invisble. And in the the dark he is barely visible.



With prep, Batman would have taken this in consideration. He'll know when and where to fight Frank. Most likey in his terrain, a dark area. Frank won't now where Bruce is, thus giving Batman the upper-hand.

Its elementary dear Watson.

This is no prep.

With prep, yes, Batman would have an advantage, but Frank is good with prep as well. He's not a chemist or scientist like Bruce, but he is a highly trained soldier and tactician; skilled in war games.

He can plan and set a trap for a kill.

He just can't create a computer virus to counteract Brainiac or synthesize kryptonite.

Originally posted by illadelph12
This is no prep.

With prep, yes, Batman would have an advantage, but Frank is good with prep as well. He's not a chemist or scientist like Bruce, but he is a highly trained soldier and tactician; skilled in war games.

He can plan and set a trap for a kill.

He just can't create a computer virus to counteract Brainiac or synthesize kryptonite.

Compare Batman startegies to Franks and tell which one is better.

Originally posted by Freaky Zeeky




Not if Batman constantly keeps moving.

Frank's a world class marksman. He can hit a moving target.

Batman doesn't posess superhuman speed or agility and Frank plugged Spiderman.

Originally posted by illadelph12
This is no prep.

With prep, yes, Batman would have an advantage, but Frank is good with prep as well. He's not a chemist or scientist like Bruce, but he is a highly trained soldier and tactician; skilled in war games.

He can plan and set a trap for a kill.

He just can't create a computer virus to counteract Brainiac or synthesize kryptonite.

Didn't Frank make a grenade he thought could kill an Asguardian or something insane like that?

It really doesn't matter if there is no prep...Batman doesn't win battles with prep alone...he is as dangerous without prep...

Originally posted by Freaky Zeeky
Compare Batman startegies to Franks and tell which one is better.

This is no prep.

Most of Batman's strategies involve him in his lab, or getting an implement from the Batcave/Watchtower to carry out some drawn out plan.

In a spontaneous occurance he and Frank are on equal terms with Frank having a more lethal arsenal. Out the gate in this scenario the playing field is VERY level and both of these men can battle strategize on their feet. Batman can counter with science and deduction, but that's not available to him in this scenario, it's a fight.

Frank would take him out.

Originally posted by illadelph12
This is no prep.

With prep, yes, Batman would have an advantage, but Frank is good with prep as well. He's not a chemist or scientist like Bruce, but he is a highly trained soldier and tactician; skilled in war games.

He can plan and set a trap for a kill.

He just can't create a computer virus to counteract Brainiac or synthesize kryptonite.

Where does everyone get the idea that Batman is Reed Richards or Henry Pym i.e. a brilliant chemist/biologist/physicist/engineer? Yes he's cunning, a brilliant problem solver, a great detective but I always assumed that his technology was simply applied tech from Wayne Enterprises.

Do you really think that Batman can't think on his feet? And are we forgetting his batsuit, utility belt and all kinds of deadly weapons that's with him all the time...come on dude, really.

Originally posted by shaolin9976
Do you really think that Batman can't think on his feet? And are we forgetting his batsuit, utility belt and all kinds of deadly weapons that's with him all the time...come on dude, really.

No, that's why I specifically said this:



Batman can think on his feet, but he's not the only one. Frank's brain won't stop working to allow Bruce a headstart or any kind of advantage. I think people seem to forget that Batman's opponents have brains also.

Bruce is not the only tactician in this fight, and without being able to fall back to the lab it's a equal playing field. Frank is a top level battle strategist. The areas where Bruce has an advantage aren't available to him in this scenario.

And Bruce is far from a Reed, Doom, or T'Challa.

Really? And you are suggesting that Frank is a better strategist than Batman. How well do you know Batman's history? Do you know that he learned from the best in the world when it comes to fighting. He does not depend on his scientific knowledge. Sure he is not as smart as those two scientist you mentioned but he ain't no dummy.

And who said Batman needs all this lab work to beat an opponent?

With no prep Batman's screwed against the Punisher.

Prove it!

Alright,I'll try.The Punisher has all of these weapons that can kill anyone and Batman will do most of his damage by fighting which means he'll have to be close to the Punisher but that would be a mistake because if Batman's up close,the Punisher has an easier target.Batman would have to figure out how to fight the Punisher without being up close.If he throws some weapons the Punisher can use his guns to stop them from hitting him.So he'd have to make some more powerful weapons.And if that doens't work he'd have to figure out how to get close to the Punisher without being shot.His cape won't survive all of those bullets for him the whole battle.

Originally posted by shaolin9976
Really? And you are suggesting that Frank is a better strategist than Batman. How well do you know Batman's history? Do you know that he learned from the best in the world when it comes to fighting. He does not depend on his scientific knowledge. Sure he is not as smart as those two scientist you mentioned but he ain't no dummy.

And who said Batman needs all this lab work to beat an opponent?

Again, no. Frank isn't a better battle strategist than Batman, but he's his equal at the least in pure battle tactics. When you add Batman's resources as a billionaire behind a tech conglomorate and his advanced laboratory and computers, etc, it tips the scales in his favor for formulating a strategy. Take those away out on the street with his standard gear and no support against someone of equal combat skill, it's 50/50.

Punisher has a superior arsenal. He has all of the same implements as Batman minus batarangs and gas powered grappling hooks, but plus automatic assault rifles, semi auto handguns, uzis (Mini SMGs), a sniper rifle, and a magnum, and he plays for keeps.

He can kill Bruce.

And you are assuming that the Punisher figured Batman out right away...wow!

Originally posted by shaolin9976
Straight up fight? Batman knows his strengths and weaknesses...he will not fight who has a deathwish straight up...he will use his brains and outsmart Punisher...which will be the result of his victory!
Batman is a mind reader know ? He only has to look at Punisher, and "knows his strengths and weaknesses ?" Okaaay...

And what weaknesses by the way ?

The Punisher would have Micro-Chip do all of his work for him.Well,actually he already does do everything for him.

Batman KNOWS HIS OWN strength and weakness...

Originally posted by shaolin9976
Batman KNOWS HIS OWN strength and weakness...
Impressive

Originally posted by Zod4Life
Alright,I'll try.The Punisher has all of these weapons that can kill anyone and Batman will do most of his damage by fighting which means he'll have to be close to the Punisher but that would be a mistake because if Batman's up close,the Punisher has an easier target.Batman would have to figure out how to fight the Punisher without being up close.If he throws some weapons the Punisher can use his guns to stop them from hitting him.So he'd have to make some more powerful weapons.And if that doens't work he'd have to figure out how to get close to the Punisher without being shot.His cape won't survive all of those bullets for him the whole battle.

Batman would eat Punisher alive. I love Castle, but Batman is a way better strategist. Castle has guns and good aim, but Batman has been fighting foes like that for years.

As for fighting up close, Batman could just toss a gas/baomb/freeze pellet/etc at him, and if Frank shot it it would mess him up badly. Or Batman could just dodge his way in--he's a much better h2h fighter than Frank as well.

Batman wins 8/10. Frank COULD take him--but not as many times.

Oh, and Batman is a scientist,detective,etc. He just modifies a lot of Wayne Tech inventions for his personal use.

Originally posted by Zod4Life
The Punisher would have Micro-Chip do all of his work for him.Well,actually he already does do everything for him.

Punisher already filled Micro with lead...

Originally posted by DrDoom
Punisher already filled Micro with lead...
Is he still dead ? I know he was presumed dead at least two times, but he always managed to come back.

He killed Micro-Chip?The bastard....I only knew about Micro-Chip from the Spider-Man cartoon from the 1990's.The two comics I read with the Punisher never had Micxro-Chip in them.

Originally posted by illadelph12
Again, no. Frank isn't a better battle strategist than Batman, but he's his equal at the least in pure battle tactics. When you add Batman's resources as a billionaire behind a tech conglomorate and his advanced laboratory and computers, etc, it tips the scales in his favor for formulating a strategy. Take those away out on the street with his standard gear and no support against someone of equal combat skill, it's 50/50.

Punisher has a superior arsenal. He has all of the same implements as Batman minus batarangs and gas powered grappling hooks, but plus automatic assault rifles, semi auto handguns, uzis (Mini SMGs), a sniper rifle, and a magnum, and he plays for keeps.

He can kill Bruce.

All the guns in the world wo't help Frank, and where do they fight? The beginner of this thread never stated.

Originally posted by DrDoom
Batman would eat Punisher alive. I love Castle, but Batman is a way better strategist. Castle has guns and good aim, but Batman has been fighting foes like that for years.

As for fighting up close, Batman could just toss a gas/baomb/freeze pellet/etc at him, and if Frank shot it it would mess him up badly. Or Batman could just dodge his way in--he's a much better h2h fighter than Frank as well.

Batman wins 8/10. Frank COULD take him--but not as many times.

Oh, and Batman is a scientist,detective,etc. He just modifies a lot of Wayne Tech inventions for his personal use.

Dodge his way in through a hail of armour piercing bullets... it could happen.

Oh I have no doubt Batman tinkers, but some would have you believe he's an inventive/scientific genius on par with Richards/Pym/McCoy/Doom etc

Originally posted by Freaky Zeeky
All the guns in the world wo't help Frank, and where do they fight? The beginner of this thread never stated.


Every single fight on this board is defualt an arena match with bloodlust on I believe

Frank learned on-the-job in Vietnam, survived, and thrived. He's crafted from war and already perfected his ability to strategize. Batman does as great as he does due to seemingly limitless resources; take all that away and they're probably pretty much equal.

Frank won't be able to take Bruce in a hand-to-hand fight. But with a gun in his hand? Even if he loses, he'll give Batman a lot of trouble.

Originally posted by DrDoom
Batman would eat Punisher alive. I love Castle, but Batman is a way better strategist. Castle has guns and good aim, but Batman has been fighting foes like that for years.

As for fighting up close, Batman could just toss a gas/baomb/freeze pellet/etc at him, and if Frank shot it it would mess him up badly. Or Batman could just dodge his way in--he's a much better h2h fighter than Frank as well.

Batman wins 8/10. Frank COULD take him--but not as many times.

Oh, and Batman is a scientist,detective,etc. He just modifies a lot of Wayne Tech inventions for his personal use.

I highly doubt Batman would "eat Punisher alive" in a spontaneous encounter. Batman's not the only one packing grenades, or the only one with ability to dodge attacks and use cover. Frank has a wide array of ranged attacks as well and is very accurate. In a pure combat scenario he can match and counter Batman easily.

People are speaking based more on popularity than the scenario at hand, as usual.

Bruce's h2h skills are not vastly superior to Frank's. He has a wider variety of styles, granted, but Frank's military combat training is just as extensive, just not as varied. It gets the job done very efficiently, that's it purpose.

And that's even if this becomes a physical confrontation, Batman can't catch hollow tips. Frank put bullets in Spiderman, he can plug Bruce Wayne with a few rounds as well.

I'm not saying it would be a cakewalk against the Punisher...after all he is one of the best vigilante in the marvel universe...all i am saying is when it's all said and done, Batman would be the last man standing between the two.

Originally posted by shaolin9976
I'm not saying it would be a cakewalk against the Punisher...after all he is one of the best vigilante in the marvel universe...all i am saying is when it's all said and done, Batman would be the last man standing between the two.

Only because Frank would have shot him from a crouching position.

Originally posted by illadelph12

People are speaking based more on popularity than the scenario at hand, as usual.

Bruce's h2h skills are not vastly superior to Frank's. He has a wider variety of styles, granted, but Frank's military combat training is just as extensive, just not as varied. It gets the job done very efficiently, that's it purpose.

And that's even if this becomes a physical confrontation, Batman can't catch hollow tips. Frank put bullets in Spiderman, he can plug Bruce Wayne with a few rounds as well.

Not really, I'm basing it on what Castle has SAID. He said Wolverine,Spider-Man, and Daredevil could take him apart if they wanted too. Daredevil especially. If they could whoop him fairly easily, why couldn't Batman do it albeit witha bit more trouble?

He's pretty good at h2h,but he's nowhere near the best on Earth--like Batman is. He fought Daredevil h2h and got his ass handed to him, what do you think Batman would do to him?

Spider-Man doesn't have gas pellets to reduce visibility. Batman could use these as well as the environment for cover, and score the win.

Batman wins 7-8/10. Not because he is popular, but because his skillset and weapons are superior to Punisher's. Again, I love Castle, but he ain't winnin' this.

Batman is not that stupid to get shot like that.

http://www.buzzscope.com/reviews.php?id=4460

The last to pages of the preview are a DD and Punisher fight

Originally posted by shaolin9976
I'm not saying it would be a cakewalk against the Punisher...after all he is one of the best vigilante in the marvel universe...all i am saying is when it's all said and done, Batman would be the last man standing between the two.

The thing that gives Batman the edge in this fight is the extensive martial arts training. The punisher is good and after reading this thread I've found out that his abilities are quite impressive but Batman is AS good in EVERY area ( his marksmanship either equals or surpasses castles and they BOTH have maxed human durability).

Frank would need an edge and I don't see where he could get one considering the fact that Batman has defeated a Predator or two. And he has handled Jean Paul Valley (who was almost his equal) without going for a kill.

Deathstroke stated that he wouldn't want to face Batman without his physical enhancements, so does Punisher equal a Deathstroke without physical enhancements? From what I've learned in this forum about Deathstroke he is many times Franks superior, so the only question left to ask is WHY he wouldn't want to face Batman without physical enhancements. Probably because without them he'd lose...as would Castle.

Of course Daredevil, Wolverine, and Spiderman could take him apart h2h. That's a mutant with a healing factor, super senses, enhanced strength and endurance, and an adamantium skeleton, a radioactive mutate with spider dna infused into his body that grants him superhuman strength, agility, endurance, the ability to crawl on walls, and a type of precog, and a man with a built in radar and super senses caused by 'radiation' (Marvel radiation is weird).

Batman does not have these luxuries.

Batman is a regular man without any genetic or radiation induced enhancements, just like Frank.

Batman has gas pellets, just like Frank.

Batman has smoke grenades, just like Frank.

Batman has tear gas, just like Frank.

Batman has thermal specs and night vision specs, just like Frank.

Batman has bat shaped ninja stars. Frank has a modified M-60 automatic assault rifle that can pump out over 300 7.62mm hollow tip or DU rounds in a minute, 2 Desert Eagles, 2 Uzis, and and a Magnum;

the great equalizer.

Bruce is gonna die. He can't tiger punch a bullet.

Daredevil does not have enhanced strength. His strength level is the maximum peak of a normal human being just like Batman. His fighting skills level though is lower than Batman himself. In fact, Elektra's fighting skill level is higher than Daredevil. So what does that say about the Punisher?

Anyone who tries to tiger punch a bullet that doesn't have a superhuman strength is just plain dumb. And last time I check, Batman is one of the most intelligent heroes there is.

I didn't say Daredevil has superhuman strength, I said:



Batman's fighting skills being superior to Daredevil is debatable. I'm not a Daredevil fan, and Ben Affleck didn't help his cause much, but from what I do know of Daredevil, his skills combined with his enhanced senses make him very formidable. And Elekta is great h2h combatant. I don't see how that makes Daredevil less of a fighter. Elektra could give Bruce a run for his money also.

Besides, as I said before, who says this has to become a physical confrontation. Frank carries enough ammunition to keep shooting for a VERY long time, and guns do work in close quarters. It's not like once Bruce gets within 10 feet Frank's going to put the gun down and start throwing punches.

You said:

"Of course Daredevil, Wolverine, and Spiderman could take him apart h2h. That's a mutant with a healing factor, super senses, enhanced strength and endurance, and an adamantium skeleton, a radioactive mutate with spider dna infused into his body that grants him superhuman strength, agility, endurance, the ability to crawl on walls, and a type of precog, and a man with a built in radar and super senses caused by 'radiation' (Marvel radiation is weird). "

So what makes you think Batman can't?

Originally posted by shaolin9976
Daredevil does not have enhanced strength. His strength level is the maximum peak of a normal human being just like Batman. His fighting skills level though is lower than Batman himself. In fact, Elektra's fighting skill level is higher than Daredevil. So what does that say about the Punisher?

Anyone who tries to tiger punch a bullet that doesn't have a superhuman strength is just plain dumb. And last time I check, Batman is one of the most intelligent heroes there is.

Batman can bench 600lbs he isn't peak human. Daredevil is not only stronger then Batman but he is also as agile as Nightwing... so pretty much superior to Bats in everyway

Where did you get this facts, because I have in front of me the DC and Marvel encyclopedia and it doesn't say that Daredevil is stronger than Batman.

Originally posted by shaolin9976
Where did you get this facts, because I have in front of me the DC and Marvel encyclopedia and it doesn't say that Daredevil is stronger than Batman.

Well I doubt that as a strength referance it would say "Daredevil is stronger then Batman." But we have seen Bruce working out in the Batcave and he benches between 500-600lbs that might not be his maximum but never looks like he has having an easy time with it.

Originally posted by shaolin9976
You said:

"Of course Daredevil, Wolverine, and Spiderman could take him apart h2h. That's a mutant with a healing factor, super senses, enhanced strength and endurance, and an adamantium skeleton, a radioactive mutate with spider dna infused into his body that grants him superhuman strength, agility, endurance, the ability to crawl on walls, and a type of precog, and a man with a built in radar and super senses caused by 'radiation' (Marvel radiation is weird). "

So what makes you think Batman can't?

No, I said:



Batman does not have super strength, super senses, super healing, super reflexes, super endurance, precog/danger awareness, or a built in radar due to radiation.

And where did you see Daredevil is in the peak of human condition?

Daredevil is peak human?

I've seen him flip a limo, rip a bolted mail box out of the ground and use a 400lbs wieghtlifting bar as a bo-staff to beat a bunch of wieghtlifters with then chuck it across a room. He may but have peak human strength but he is closer to it then Bruce.

It doesn't matter, brains over brawns. And Batman uses both.

Whoever posted the new batman/punisher thread should try looking harder.

Originally posted by The MISTER
The thing that gives Batman the edge in this fight is the extensive martial arts training. The punisher is good and after reading this thread I've found out that his abilities are quite impressive but Batman is AS good in EVERY area ( his marksmanship either equals or surpasses castles and they BOTH have maxed human durability).

Frank would need an edge and I don't see where he could get one considering the fact that Batman has defeated a Predator or two. And he has handled Jean Paul Valley (who was almost his equal) without going for a kill.

Deathstroke stated that he wouldn't want to face Batman without his physical enhancements, so does Punisher equal a Deathstroke without physical enhancements? From what I've learned in this forum about Deathstroke he is many times Franks superior, so the only question left to ask is WHY he wouldn't want to face Batman without physical enhancements. Probably because without them he'd lose...as would Castle.

I'm guessing that the Punishers supporters either missed this post or can't come up with a rebuttal.

Originally posted by The MISTER
I'm guessing that the Punishers supporters either missed this post or can't come up with a rebuttal.

Because DS was a random run of the mill gurnt before he got 15x strength and reflexes... and he still leaves a fight with Batman hurting like hell. With out prep, DS is a bit of a chump.

But what about the predator Batman defeated. I don't think that he could just kill a predator a week for a month but surviving being hunted by one is no small feat.

Also you must remember that by removing Batman's hesitancy to kill for this battle and replacing it with bloodlust you may have made him quite superior to the enhanced Deathstroke. ( MAY! ) I find it hard to believe that Batman couldn't duplicate EVERYTHING the punisher has done and without using guns but by using very lethal tactics.

Ninjitsu is one of the many arts he is well practised in and he is a tactical genious in combination with having access to many secrets of that art.

Originally posted by The MISTER
The thing that gives Batman the edge in this fight is the extensive martial arts training. The punisher is good and after reading this thread I've found out that his abilities are quite impressive but Batman is AS good in EVERY area ( his marksmanship either equals or surpasses castles and they BOTH have maxed human durability).

Frank would need an edge and I don't see where he could get one considering the fact that Batman has defeated a Predator or two. And he has handled Jean Paul Valley (who was almost his equal) without going for a kill.

Deathstroke stated that he wouldn't want to face Batman without his physical enhancements, so does Punisher equal a Deathstroke without physical enhancements? From what I've learned in this forum about Deathstroke he is many times Franks superior, so the only question left to ask is WHY he wouldn't want to face Batman without physical enhancements. Probably because without them he'd lose...as would Castle.

Actually, I did miss this post.

Deathstroke's statement is immaterial. The fact that he wouldn't want to face Batman's sans his powers/enhancements is his own insecurity in his abilities. It's meaningless.

Batman surviving being hunted by a Predator is immaterial. Danny Glover and Governor Scwarzenegger have done the same thing (The Predator did manage to kill Carl Weathers though).

Batman's comparable marksmanship is immaterial; Batman's not packin' heat.

Frank does have an edge, it's called an M-60 assault rifle. For every 3 Batarangs Batman tosses at Frank, he can return with 75 rounds of 7.62mm hollow tips.

I don't see how in an impromptu meeting Batman with his standard gear has any advantage on Frank. Frank is no run of the mill thug or jobber.

The only edge Batman could have was if it became a purely physical confrontation, and Frank doesn't have to let it deteriorate to that with his arsenal, he can take Bruce down from a distance easily.

Batman is not the only battle tactician in this scenario. Don't think when the bullets are flying Frank is going to slack simply because he's facing Batman. Bruce is just another mark to get capped, he's just wearing a cape and cowel. Yes, Batman is good, but Frank is far from being that bad. He can take Batman out.

Originally posted by illadelph12
Actually, I did miss this post.

Deathstroke's statement is immaterial. The fact that he wouldn't want to face Batman's sans his powers/enhancements is his own insecurity in his abilities. It's meaningless.

Batman surviving being hunted by a Predator is immaterial. Danny Glover and Governor Scwarzenegger have done the same thing (The Predator did manage to kill Carl Weathers though).

Batman's comparable marksmanship is immaterial; Batman's not packin' heat.

Frank does have an edge, it's called an M-60 assault rifle. For every 3 Batarangs Batman tosses at Frank, he can return with 75 rounds of 7.62mm hollow tips.

I don't see how in an impromptu meeting Batman with his standard gear has any advantage on Frank. Frank is no run of the mill thug or jobber.

The only edge Batman could have was if it became a purely physical confrontation, and Frank doesn't have to let it deteriorate to that with his arsenal, he can take Bruce down from a distance easily.

Batman is not the only battle tactician in this scenario. Don't think when the bullets are flying Frank is going to slack simply because he's facing Batman. Bruce is just another mark to get capped, he's just wearing a cape and cowel. Yes, Batman is good, but Frank is far from being that bad. He can take Batman out.

Your acting like Batman never dodged bullets before.

Originally posted by who?-kid
Is he still dead ? I know he was presumed dead at least two times, but he always managed to come back.

It's safe to say he's not coming back this time...it's kinda hard to grow your head back y'know?

Originally posted by Freaky Zeeky
Your acting like Batman never dodged bullets before. You're acting like he's never been shot before.

Didn't Punisher lose to Dare Devil?

Originally posted by illadelph12
Batman surviving being hunted by a Predator is immaterial. Danny Glover and Governor Scwarzenegger have done the same thing (The Predator did manage to kill Carl Weathers though).

BAH! BAHH!! HUMBUG!!!!!!!!

Never ever ever use this sorry excuse again.

Swarchenegger's character was the best of the best in his field. He was a seasoned, highly experienced, super buff, incredibily successfull combatant, who only won with a little luck and a lot of prep!

Glover's character was a seasoned cop who had been taking it to assholes in a virtual warzone for many years. And again he beat a one armed wounded predator with tons of luck.

Stop making light of these characters to put down predators!! You wretched thing you!

Originally posted by K3VIL
Punisher killed a bear with his bare hands.Captain America himself stated the Punisher is one of the few guys near to his rank of physical form and fightning skills.
Batman messing with Frank Castle will find out that he's not only a heartless justifier but he can also kick some serious butts.

Agreed

ppl shooty at bats all the time. castle would fail just like anyone else. as was said above batman beat predator. batman beat bane. batman eats gi's for breakfast.


in year one batman kicked down a tree. punched a man through a wall. popped handcuffs whilst he was shot. hes a peak level human. punisher is not. big guns do not a warrior make.


bats will crush pun. id go as far to say that no human (street level human) can take him. (w/o powers etc)

This is a hypothetical debate, therefore, bats is not subject to god writing, ''never being hit", and other silly things, he has a weapon limit like frank, and is human. He can't dodge bullets for long, the better question is, how long can he do so.

That being said, its an even match.

Punisher killed a polar bear with his bare hands? This is wrong for so many reasons.

First it's not true. Not until I see a scan because I remember a Punisher story with a polar bear in it and he was in no way dead.

Second what characters say is not comic fact, what characters do is. Cap saying Frank was on his level in no way makes it true and your credibility is already suspect K3vil.

Third, you got a serious hinderence in you ability to see reality Mitch. First you say that martial arts in comics do not enable you to fight polar bears (how ironic that a polar bear be brought up again) and hear you use it like it's the best damn post on this thread.

"God writing" your so full of it Mitch. Bats can't dodge bullets because he does so all the time, but Punisher can kill polar bears with his bare hands even though he's never done it.

I'd say, as a character, that Captain America is as credible as source you would get in comics. That guy doesn't BS and he knows his shit. I'd say Captain America is a much more credible source on Punisher's physical status than some guy named MERCILOUS who posts on KMC comic book versus boards.

That's just what i'd say though.

This fight ends in a draw!

Nah, this ain't a draw, Bruce is getting capped.

If Frank can plug Spiderman, he can plug Batman.

Batman's been shot before by lesser marksman, and Frank's a damn surgeon with his 60 and sniper rifle. He's got smoke, flash and gas grenades as well, and he knows how to move silently in the shadows to pull off a hit just as well as Batman. He even trained his dog Max to do the same thing to be a more effective guard and attack dog. Ninjas aren't the only people that can effectively utilize darkness and cover.

He's got everything Batman has save Tiger Punches and Crouching Frog kicks, and Frank doesn't even have to let the fight deteriorate into a physical confrontation.

Batman's gonna die.

Where is this fight taking place anyway? Inner city/Urban, jungle, rooftops?

Wow.
Punisher is a baddass.
He can take Batman down.
All Batman has is a Crouching Frog kick......

lol@ Crouching Frog Kick

tomcat
rifle2gunsbatmanraygun

Originally posted by Zahit
Wow.
Punisher is a baddass.
He can take Batman down.
All Batman has is a Crouching Frog kick......



Come on now homie, I wasn't being literal.

I'm just saying Bruce's advantage is that he knows more martial arts, where as Frank's advantage is that he has more ways to kill Bruce from a distance or up close without throwing a punch at all, just by pulling a trigger.

Punisher is nothing but a wanna be Batman...he doesn't have the guts to go head on against the BAT!

He doesn't need to go head on with Batman, he just has to put a bullet in a vital place in Bruce's anatomy and it's over.

This isn't about who's the better man, this isn't for honor, this is a deathmatch.

Frank's just going to kill; that's what he does.

Kill who? Where's Batman? In Punisher's back, ending his miserable life.

the second Batman Begins the fight it's over for mr. castle.

Please.

In a spontaneous battle these 2 are on equal terms. Frank could take Batman out before he even knew he was there with his sniper rifle.

What part of Punisher doesn't have to engage Batman in a physical confrontation don't you guys understand? Batman's martial arts diversity is of no consequence to someone that can take him out from 100+ yards or less.

Bruce is not the only person that can utilize hit an run tactics or sneaking up on someone, Frank is just as good at it and has been doing it just as long between the military and being a vigilante.

In this scenario, Punisher can take Batman out. It's not like Batman has been tracking the Punisher and is getting the drop on him, it's spontaneous.

Originally posted by shaolin9976
It's funny how the punisher is all of a sudden a superhuman, when all he is, is a vigilante with some training.

Can you say hypocrite?

Batman nana nana nana Batman Batman nana nana nana nana Batman!!!

Originally posted by shaolin9976
Punisher is nothing but a wanna be Batman...he doesn't have the guts to go head on against the BAT! You sound like a fanboy there son. Insulting Punisher isn't gonna stop Batman from being shot to death.

Originally posted by Solidus Snake
in year one batman kicked down a tree.
No he didn't. Or at least not as you make it seem.

A wall of an old, abandoned and damaged building.

can you say close minded?

You ain't my daddy...don't call me son dog!

batman is more skilled but the punisher is crazy like a fox and in unprepped battle of the two i think batman will win.
i will enter two scenarioes
1: the punisher just finish putting the kibosh on a whole criminal syndicate by blowing up the building they were meeting in Batman see this and goes to bring castle to justice. Batman wins
2: Batman is wanted in New York for being the one suspected of killing a top ranking offical Punisher hears about it hours later and sets out to find the bat and manges to sneak into one of bat patrols. Punisher wins by getting the drop but barely.

Originally posted by 8bitChris


I'd say, as a character, that Captain America is as credible as source you would get in comics. That guy doesn't BS and he knows his shit. I'd say Captain America is a much more credible source on Punisher's physical status than some guy named MERCILOUS who posts on KMC comic book versus boards.

That's just what i'd say though.

Oh right, because comic characters are so infallable. They never say anything contradicting or simply false.

Doctor Strange-"there is no such thing as chaos magic"

Originally posted by illadelph12
Please.

In a spontaneous battle these 2 are on equal terms. Frank could take Batman out before he even knew he was there with his sniper rifle.

Oh I see tons of distance and just the right weapon is with one of the combatants unaware is equal terms...

Originally posted by illadelph12
What part of Punisher doesn't have to engage Batman in a physical confrontation don't you guys understand? Batman's martial arts diversity is of no consequence to someone that can take him out from 100+ yards or less.

Says you. maybe you just don't beleive that Batman can come up on Frank.

Originally posted by illadelph12
Bruce is not the only person that can utilize hit an run tactics or sneaking up on someone, Frank is just as good at it and has been doing it just as long between the military and being a vigilante.

In this scenario, Punisher can take Batman out. It's not like Batman has been tracking the Punisher and is getting the drop on him, it's spontaneous.

Which makes your earlier scenario a crock.

Originally posted by who?-kid

No he didn't. Or at least not as you make it seem.

Explain.

Punisher has said that it is hard to get good ammunition, So basically it isn't part of his regular armament. Most of the ammunition that does hit will likely end up like this.

Gee, I wonder who's a better marksmen, Hush (who is comparable to Deadshot.) or Punisher?

Originally posted by MERCILOUS
Punisher has said that it is hard to get good ammunition, So basically it isn't part of his regular armament. Most of the ammunition that does hit will likely end up like this. Who's shooting @ him in that pic?

Your average variety thugs.

What happened after they shattered every plate in his armor?

Originally posted by MERCILOUS
Explain.
Your wish is my command. Bruce Wayne was training, and though I can not prove it, it really seemed like he was training that particular day for quite some time. And in the end, he finally kicked down a tree after he punched/kicked it several times (don't know how many times), which is a bit out of character to put it mildly.

Originally posted by brainchild81
What happened after they shattered every plate in his armor?

He beat them up.

Originally posted by who?-kid
Your wish is my command. Bruce Wayne was training, and though I can not prove it, it really seemed like he was training that particular day for quite some time. And in the end, he finally kicked down a tree after he punched/kicked it several times (don't know how many times), which is a bit out of character to put it mildly.

I'm pretty sure that's year one though, and he's 16 in that pic.

Originally posted by MERCILOUS
I'm pretty sure that's year one though, and he's 16 in that pic.
16 ?

In Batman Year One (brilliant storyline by the way, one of the best) Bruce Wayne is more like 25.

You ever heard of something called a flashback? Smartass.

Boy, you're gone for one 4th of July weekend and look what happens.

Merc, Merc, Merc...
1)


2)


3)


4)


5)


1) The battle is a spontaneous occurance in New York City. The thread originator didn't state that they were in the immediate vacinity of eachother or anything to that degree.

2) Frank doesn't have to get physical if he doesn't which to, and even if he did, he's not so remedial in hand to hand combat that he couldn't give Batman a good fight, it's simply a matter of with his arsenal that he doesn't have to.

3) No. It's not specified that the battle begins in line of site or not. Frank can take up a position and spot Bruce before he realizes it, then put a 7.62mm round through his head. The reverse is also possible (Batman spotting Punisher first), but I'm a Punisher supporter.

4) That simply means Frank can't easily come up with something like depleted uranium rounds or other high end ordinance easily. He uses hollow tips (AP rounds) in his D.E.s and his sniper rifle and 60's standard munitions are 7.62mm rounds, which eat through armor like fat people eat through a box of Krispy Kremes.

5) Immaterial. Batman has been shot by common mob goons and henchmen, and had to have Alfred patch him up before. I doubt they are better marksman than Hush or Frank. This forum is not governed by plot devices. See forum rules for clarity.


Bruce is gonna get dumped on; period.

Sniping isnt fair

...Sniping isn't fair?

Are you serious?