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All out battle

No holds barred.

RACHEL....... by lightyears

Um....no.
Strange wouldn't be bothered by that youngun. The real phoenix is more of a match than this second rate wannabe.

What exactly could Rachel do?

Originally posted by long pig
Um....no.
Strange wouldn't be bothered by that youngun. The real phoenix is more of a match than this second rate wannabe.

What exactly could Rachel do?

I knew you'd post. I did this for you lol. Im sorry to say that rachel would f*ck him up. He's no match for phoenix 2 im afraid

I knew it!

He's enough of a match for the real phoenix, well the phoenix beffore the revamp.

Rachel on the other hand has not a single chance, what could she do?

Originally posted by long pig
I knew it!

He's enough of a match for the real phoenix, well the phoenix beffore the revamp.

Rachel on the other hand has not a single chance, what could she do?

Rachel could put galactus and his herald nova in his place with ease sometging beyond DS's capabilities im afraid. She could generate virtually any energy type in virtually any amount, she could manipulate reality , matter. time and space and her inherent powers were amplified to near infinite levels. Bye bye D strange

Originally posted by long pig
Um....no.
Strange wouldn't be bothered by that youngun. The real phoenix is more of a match than this second rate wannabe.

What exactly could Rachel do?

nothing i only said it to piss you.

why do you like strange so much, mr. long pig?

and just how deep is your collection with him?

EDIT: there

"i only said it to arouse you."

Disturbing

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
"i only said it to arouse you."

Disturbing

LOL

iight, hold up a min.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Rachel could put galactus and his herald nova in his place with ease sometging beyond DS's capabilities im afraid. She could generate virtually any energy type in virtually any amount, she could manipulate reality , matter. time and space and her inherent powers were amplified to near infinite levels. Bye bye D strange

Strange has done both, k.o'd Galactus and shooed away Nova before. Also, Surfer admits to Strange being more powerful than he is.

Strange can manipulate reality, manipulate time/space, manipulate matter and is her superior in telepathy as well and can nullify any reality manipulation.

DS: "begone" Rachel is thrown into Deaths realm. The end.
Strange wins in a massive curb stomp.

Man, I've been into Strange since I was 11, my dad was into it when he was younger and had tons of back issues for me to read, I probably got 90% of his appearences.

"as well and can nullify any reality manipulation"


House of M seems to disagree with that im afraid and wanda is pathetic in comparison to rachel. Strange at his best is an avatar of eternity rachel is beyond eternity im afraid, Goodbye DS. Hows winmx goin anyway?

House of M seems to disagree with that im afraid and wanda is pathetic in comparison to rachel. Strange at his best is an avatar of eternity rachel is beyond eternity im afraid, Goodbye DS. Hows winmx goin anyway?


^damn! that's bothering me too. and why didnt surfer step up like he did with cable, house of M is a far bigger threat?

answers pls.

House of M isn't finished, we don't know exactly what's goin on. Also, DS is being downgraded.

Two weilders of the IG power to alter reality was nulled by Strange, and illyana's power to alter reality was nullified as well.

At best, Strange can appeal TOAA via LT.
And he can still banish her to Deaths realm.

Winmx is going great! haven't slept all day! Having problems getting into the room every so often though. But it's awesome.

Originally posted by long pig
Man, I've been into Strange since I was 11, my dad was into it when he was younger and had tons of back issues for me to read, I probably got 90% of his appearences.

gotdamn. how much is it worth by now? 10 Gs the minimum?

-edit- meant that to go to the one before. damn double posts.

gotdamn. how much is it worth by now? 10 Gs the minimum?

Yeah, maybe. The older ones are in horrible condition, but the ones from 75-95 are in really good condition. I still read them every so often.

"Two weilders of the IG power to alter reality was nulled by Strange"

The wish wasnt specifically directed upon strange. Theres a difference. Rachel would be directly using her powers on strange. Theres no evidence that he could negate such power, when directy applied to him, especially when he considers Silver Surfer more powerful than him someone rachel would brush off.



And he can still banish her to Deaths realm."

Death holds no power over a phoenix whatsoever.

The wish was "Make it 24 hours ago" Strange said "notta gonna happen", and negated it. Well, he didn't say anything, he just hand gestured, but surely he was thinking it.

How did Rachel get powerful? Was it because of the Phoenix re-vamp? Isn't Rachel just a third party carrier of a portion of the PF? I mean, does she have any other connection other than her mother?

And, isn't her father wolverine??

Is she calling herself Marvel Girl now or just wearing the old costume Galacticstorm?

Cyclops is her father, different timeline. Jean is the Phoenix and Phoenix is Jean. Rachel has an affinity to the Phoenix Force due to her genetics, so she can channel it's power.

Powerful cosmic/psionic power vs Powerful mystical power. Both can take on Galactus. Hard to say who wins.

It'd take more than an affinity of the PF to beat Strange, she'd need the full blown power of it.

Don't forget Strange trumps nearly any non-mystic in telepathic ability via his Eye, and is totally immune to any type of mental attack therein.

I heard Logan has been hinted as Rachels father, not Scott. In a story arc, Scott along with others were given the power to track down their children, scott couldn't find Rachel or see her.

Strange wins this handily. You could get away with the whole "Phoenix is TOAA" argument for Jean, GalacticStorm, but if you've been reading Uncanny X-men, Rachel gets owned just about every issue, by people like EMMA FROST, no less. The rap on Rachel is, sure she's a repository for vast power, but she has limited skill in using it, which is why Emma tore her apart in their battle.



To be fair, Rachel was just as affected by it as Strange. So it seems Wanda is beyond them both.

Good to be back

No one really knows WHY Strange wasn't able to overcome Wanda's powers, and he was shown only one time throught the whole damn thing. Same with Onslaught, where the hell was he?

Strange has said before "Earthly matters...concern me not." basically saying, "If it isn't universal wide destruction, then I've got bigger fish to fry" but still, wtf??

He is Earth's Sorcerer Supreme, and the last two biggest Arcs he was non-existant.

Well, the thing to consider is as good as Strange is, he's still human with human frailities. Sure, he's one of the most powerful characters in the universe, but a random mugger could still run up on him and stab him to death and there's nothing he can do about it. He's just as prone to ambush as anybody else. Magneto/Wanda essentially activated whatever they activated out of nowhere. If Strange can't see it coming, Strange can't stop it. Not his fault.

Originally posted by demigawd
Strange wins this handily. You could get away with the whole "Phoenix is TOAA" argument for Jean, GalacticStorm, but if you've been reading Uncanny X-men, Rachel gets owned just about every issue, by people like EMMA FROST, no less. The rap on Rachel is, sure she's a repository for vast power, but she has limited skill in using it, which is why Emma tore her apart in their battle.



To be fair, Rachel was just as affected by it as Strange. So it seems Wanda is beyond them both.

Good to be back

Well to be fair Demi it was quite obvious from my posts that i was referring to the rachel who can tap into phoenix. It was not that rachel who was defeated by emma. It was standard rachel. Good to have you back Demi

Strange has massive pre-cognition. He -should- have seen this lightyears away. His waterfall in his mansion is at all times, showing the future.
But, they are in the process of de-powering him since spiderman 500, mordo came back and changed DS' past. So that may be something...maybe....
I dunno, I think it's just been done sloppy.

But, suspention of disbelief I guess, so far it's been a pretty damned good Arc.
Cap is old, ironman looks like some anime robot, Hulk is in the australian outback....pretty awesome imo.

wasn't obvious enough.....cuz I thought that's who you were talking about too.....

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Well to be fair Demi it was quite obvious from my posts that i was referring to the rachel who can tap into phoenix. It was not that rachel who was defeated by emma. It was standard rachel. Good to have you back Demi

Why refer to that Rachel? For one, that's not her status quo and hasn't been in at least a decade, and two, that makes it uninteresting if Phoenix is supposedly all-powerful. I consider all battles between two characters to be their most recent incarnations, not their most powerful incarnations, unless otherwise specified.

since when can standard rachel generate virtually any energy type in virtually any amount AND manipulate reality and time/space. Come on now children lol

Current Rachel Summers wouldn't stand a chance against Galactus even with what she has of the the Phoenix. She'd go down to Strange too.

If all of the Phoenix pieces go back into the White Hot Room then does Rachel lose all her power enhancement?

Originally posted by demigawd
Why refer to that Rachel? For one, that's not her status quo and hasn't been in at least a decade, and two, that makes it uninteresting if Phoenix is supposedly all-powerful. I consider all battles between two characters to be their most recent incarnations, not their most powerful incarnations, unless otherwise specified.

Rachel is slowly starting to manifest the phoenix again now that her mother is outta the picture. Just giv it a few months.

Before the re-vamp, Strange could stand up to the full Phoenix force, and probably win-stalemate it. But, since it's basically all powerful, then yeah, kinda hard to argue...but I tried

I only know of that one single Rachal, haven't read x-men in for a long time, forgive my ignorance then.

Originally posted by long pig
Before the re-vamp, Strange could stand up to the full Phoenix force, and probably win-stalemate it. But, since it's basically all powerful, then yeah, kinda hard to argue...but I tried

I only know of that one single Rachal, haven't read x-men in for a long time, forgive my ignorance then.

Its cool. Im sure winmx will help sort that out lol

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
since when can standard rachel generate virtually any energy type in virtually any amount AND manipulate reality and time/space. Come on now children lol

She can't, which is why I thought you were crazy for bringing all of that up. But given that you're arguing an outdated version of Rachel, you're still crazy, lol.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Rachel is slowly starting to manifest the phoenix again now that her mother is outta the picture. Just giv it a few months.

When she manifests it again (the way she's getting beat up, it'll be a LONG while), then we'll revisit the thread. But as it stands...she loses to Strange pretty badly.

Demi you test the patience of the GalacticStorm. Your absence has rendered you clueless to the new way of things, therefore i will excuse your conduct this once. You have been warned.

And get a sig you lazy b*stard lol

Oh, so GalacticStorm goes off and takes over the message board after Demigawd goes away, huh? Well, you've just been leasing it all this time...the board is MINE, hahahaha.

Real men don't need sigs.
(I think I'll make that my new sig)

"Real men don't need sigs.
(I think I'll make that my new sig)"


Real men dont make excuses for their inadequacies. Its cool though the way of the GalacticStorm is the way of true enlightenment. You got a lot to learn son. I'll be only to happy to teach you.

You get some props and now you're the Man? Looks like I'm gonna have to fetch me a switch and whup up on this youngin...

...tomorrow. The old man needs his sleep.

Claremont has plans for Rachel. We just have to wait and see what they are, but he's definitely planning something.

And current Rachel is far, far, far from week. She seems to be a little soft in the head, but she's far from week. This is the same chick who rearranged her body subconsciously as well as opened a black hole. And we know that she's somewhat unbalanced right now.

If we're talking classic Rachel v Strange, she takes it. In theory, Phoenix is its own inexhaustible energy source. Since Phoenix can generate ANY form of energy in any conceivable amount, I would assume that means mystical. I've always thought of the power of Phoenix to be a repository of all energy types, or an energy type that supersedes all others. And telepathically, Strange doesn't compare to any Phoenix. It's ultimate power manifested psionically. He has the power of the Eye. Phoenix has the power of every mind that ever existed, including those of the Vishanti.

Because she's all crazy and jive now, Strange might be able to take her. Once she gets her bearings though, I don't think he could.

And this comes from the second biggest Strange fan on this board (all the rest of us are shadows compared to LP).

"Classic" Rachel did about as well against Galactus as Strange did. She wasn't nearly powerful enough to even pose a threat to the Beyonder, even after he powered her up. Wolverine nearly killed "classic" Rachel, and she couldn't mentally shut Wolverine down during Enemy of the State. Xavier mentally defeated Phoenix Force Jean, and Xavier was unable to penetrate Strange's psychic defenses at all.

So Rachel at her absolute most powerful is the Phoenix, which as GS said, is the most powerful being in the entire universe or whatever, but Rachel's average and most recent showings are far from that. That's the only version we should be debating, here, for the same reason we shouldn't use Keeper Surfer feats or Blood and Thunder Thor feats on their threads.

"She wasn't nearly powerful enough to even pose a threat to the Beyonder, even after he powered her up."

Of no consequence. That was the same with every other bein in the multiverse. LT included.

"Wolverine nearly killed "classic" Rachel"

Says nothing of her power at all. A phoenixes physical body can be destroyed but its essence cant be. If she had "died" she would have just reformed at a later date. Rachel healed anyway.


"That's the only version we should be debating, here, for the same reason we shouldn't use Keeper Surfer feats or Blood and Thunder Thor feats on their threads."

Nope not necessarily. Its fine to debate about whatever character in any incarnation for the purpose of a thread. Theres nothing wrong with that whatsoever. DrS is very powerfu and is obviously too much for standard rachel which would make for a boring and very short thread. Therefore Rachel in her phoenix incarnation who is considerably less powerful than her mother is just fine to be matched up with Strange.

But Rachel in her Phoenix incarnation is still Phoenix, and thus still "all powerful". Her powers of flucuated wildly over the years, there's no way to debate this unless we settle on one version of her. Her most recent version loses, her most powerful version wins and her average version (80s rachel) is probably the most even matchup. I give it to Strange with any prep whatsoever.

Originally posted by demigawd
But Rachel in her Phoenix incarnation is still Phoenix, and thus still "all powerful". Her powers of flucuated wildly over the years, there's no way to debate this unless we settle on one version of her. Her most recent version loses, her most powerful version wins and her average version (80s rachel) is probably the most even matchup. I give it to Strange with any prep whatsoever.

Rachel as phoenix isnt all powerful at all. She only has a fraction of jeans essence within her. Rachel was also always scared and unwilling to use her powers because not only did they make her lose her memories of her past, but she also feared the power and its capacity for destruction. Strange has battled and held his own against entites such as Galactus, eternity and even LT. Although it wasnt directl applied to him he also managed to negate the effects of the IG. Strange is very capable of defeating rachel. She was scared of using her powers and that lead to her not being very experienced with them. That and the fact that she always held back in the use of phoenix powers are things DS could take advantage of.

Any other version of rachel would lose without a doubt which is why im using phoenix 2. At least that way both characters have a chance of winning making for an easier and fairer argument and therefore a better thread

Strange negated the use of the IG *twice*, and once it WAS directly applied to him. The first time, he negated the use of it by Nebula, which wasn't used directly against him. The second time, he fought an IG-wielding Warlock(with prep), who very much used the IG against him, and countered everything Warlock threw at him. That's pretty uber.

So assuming we settle on mid-80s Rachel (Phoenix 2), I'd say with any amount of prep, Strange wins a pretty good match. His best feats outstrip hers. I believe her best feat was fighting Galactus to a draw, a feat Strange matched.