Anime: Not Racist, Just Mere Ignorance

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Sun Goddess
I just got finished reading a thread that dealt with the issue of racism and what it has to do with Anime. I know I'm late, but oh well. Better late than never.

Truly, racism has nothing to do with it. I'd explain it but I think this guy pretty much sums it all up. w w w dot blacktravels dot c o m slash japan dot h t m l. Had to put the link in there like that because I'm a new member and they won't let me post links. However, I think that his story is highly intriguing. He basically describes his experience visiting in Japan as an African-American.

All I have to say is: Oh so THAT'S why there aren't many decently drawn Blacks (if drawn at all) in Anime. It sucks, but it's reality.

Freaky Zeeky
W h a t t h e f u c k?
What the f**k?

snehin
Originally posted by Sun Goddess
I just got finished reading a thread that dealt with the issue of racism and what it has to do with Anime. I know I'm late, but oh well. Better late than never.

Truly, racism has nothing to do with it. I'd explain it but I think this guy pretty much sums it all up. w w w dot blacktravels dot c o m slash japan dot h t m l. Had to put the link in there like that because I'm a new member and they won't let me post links. However, I think that his story is highly intriguing. He basically describes his experience visiting in Japan as an African-American.

All I have to say is: Oh so THAT'S why there aren't many decently drawn Blacks (if drawn at all) in Anime. It sucks, but it's reality. huh?!?!?!
Originally posted by Freaky Zeeky
W h a t t h e f u c k?
What the f**k? my taught exactly!!

Sun Goddess
What's so confusing? confused I would've put this under the actual thread but it's closed. I think the name of it was Anime Racist? and it just got me thinking. Many of their posts were understandable but others, like myself, just didn't understand the MAIN issue...(i.e why there aren't many blacks in anime). So I found that guy's site and well, it pretty much answers that question. Nothing big. Just thought I'd put it up for anyone who had posted under that thread, or was also curious about the issue.

WindDancer
The thread had to be closed because of all those pointless rants and member bashing. And the issue "why aren't there any blacks in anime" is rather difficult to discuss. I don't think the creators nor the artists are racist. Robotech for example does have black characters but no one really pays attention to what color or ethnic background the characters are. Fans of Robotech much rather see the huge Robots figth the aliens.

EvilCap America
Plus the Japanese arent "Guilted" into diversity for the sake of diversity because of history like we are here in America

I happen to be a hispanic guy and i hardly find that kind of thing satisfying.I think id be rather annoyed if a Puerto Rican was jammed into say Card Captor Sakuras storyline for diversitys sake alone

Sun Goddess
Nah, nah, nah, that's not what I'm saying. I don't think that they should just jam Black people in anime just to be "culturally fair" or whatever. I'm just showing those who wonder why exactly Anime is supposedly "lacking" in that area, the reason. Truly it doesn't bother me that they're aren't many Black people in Anime, in truth I didn't think about it until I saw a Black character make a cameo appearance in DBZ and it just made me question some things. I don't even wanna get started on Mr. Popo. no expression

But hence, that site I posted gave me insight, and well it doesn't bother me as much anymore. It's just the way it is. I just wanted to share it with anyone else who might of been feeling the same way. Regardless...I loves me Anime!!! stick out tongue

keiji
must we go over this again?

anime is not racist. it is basicall a form of art in japan. look at animation here. some shows are about all white ppl. anime is no different. being in the anime forum. we all obviously like/love anime. so stop making such a big deal out of it. as long as you like it, does it matter how ppl of different races are drawn. enjoy anime. it's funny. don't diss it plz. don't ruin it.

Sun Goddess
Didn't I just say that it wasn't racist? Did you even go to the site that I posted? Yes, I agree that it's a form of art in Japan. And I'm not making a big deal of it, I really wish that I had decided to join this forum earlier so that I would have been able to post that site in the thread that actually started this subject. It's just to answer some questions.

And it in fact DOES matter how people of different races are drawn, more specifically Black people. At least, here in America it does. I'm not saying it's a good thing but you must realize the horrible premise that this country has set forth for African-Americans. Certain things may fly by in Japan, but here in good ole askew America, it could be taken the wrong way, that's all I'm saying. It all has to do with societal norms and what is considered acceptable and what is considered taboo. Japan and America are two totally different atmospheres, what could be considered offensive to us could be considered entertaining to them and vice versa.

Why do you think that they edit Anime so much here in America, but in Japan there's no need for censorship. That's because Japan and America have different views on what is acceptable and what isn't. It's the same concept with the issue at hand here. Does anyone understand what I'm trying to say? confused

The thing is, I just wanted to point out the facts before people start jumping to conclusions about the Japanese. Call it an inside look if you will. And the word ignorant is not really and insult, it basically just means lacking in knowledge of a certain subject or issue. I really recommend going to that site and reading that guy's little essay of his experience in Japan. Like I said it basically sums up the entire issue and brings it to a peaceful close.

matt_0189
What!? There are many african-japanese individuals. They're all over Japan. And in anime; that guy from Cyborg 009...uh....I know there's another...that one bad guy on Cowboy Bebop...Haruko makes a reference to Jimi Hendrix in FLCL...

Sun Goddess
Oh...well then, I stand corrected. no expression Let's keep it real guys, you know they're aren't many Blacks drawn in Anime, now Cowboy Bebop actually surprised me with the "Mushroom Samba" episode so, kudos to it's creators. Point is, generally speaking...that's a rarity. I think I heard somewhere that the creator of Cowboy Bebop had a thing for Jazz or something of that nature. I'm not sure, but maybe that has something to do with it. But it's true that most Anime show's don't include Blacks as "large" parts of their shows. Interestingly, much like most of the media in the U.S. Hmm...now, that's a coincidence if I've ever seen one.

Anyway...Cowboy Bebop is just sweet! It tops it all! I don't care what anyone says.

justjakk
america lacks black enfluence in most of its media.... hmmmm.....sorry dude, you lost me there. seems like there is alot of ethnic diversity here in everything that i have seen..... havent you seen UPN? its a public broadcasted channel just like FOX and ABC.....most of the shows on it are centered around african american views and have african american actors.....you must not watch alot of T.V. have you seen all the shows out there? it seems to me that it has been equaly placed in our environment. now you did use the word ignorant......and you gave us the meaning.......i am glad that you did, but in a way (how you were talking about ethnnicity in media) couldnt it be misunderstood by others in saying that you were saying we dont understand english and/or are too stupid to understand the topic you have raised? now getting back on the subject that was brought to the table.....is it just me or is the topic of racism used too much.........i can sit around in my home and turn on the T.V. and safely watch my little cartoons and be safe....but at that same time i could be watching the news and hear something about one person hating another person. now from what i gather, some time back there was a moment called slavery. and while i wasnt there...i am often reminded of it by persons whom i wouldnt bother to hate, yet they accuse me of it everyday..........now i ask that this be closed for the sake that racism actually has nothing to do with anime in the fact that nothing of racism took place in japan against the african or african american nation......i find this very offensive, as many others might.........if you were to know that anime and other types cartoon are the way for people "like me" to get away from the average talk of racism, then you would understand why this is offensive and why it appauls me to the very core to know that someone has yet found another way to tell someone i hate them. in fact, if this thread isnt closed, at least i will no longer be a part of it. i am henceforth placing this thread on my ban list as should everyone else who deems it offensive...............to the point.......i dont care what dude had to say about racism and anime..........i just wanna sit back with a cold glass of soda or tea or whatnot and watch my cartoons and not have to worry about what has twisted someones undies. this is a pointless topic and i want to hear nothing more from it.

Sun Goddess
People, that's the point of this thread, to stress that Anime is NOT racist! What part of this are you not getting? I started it in response to another thread who, needless to say, blew the entire subject completely out of proportion.

And another thing, I didn't say that there were NONE...yes I'm quite aware of the many African-American media in the U.S (i.e BET network), but truly the majority of media is well...the Majority. Case closed. Now I'm going to start a new thread about my fav. pairing in Anime big grin. Go to that site I posted. Like I said, it sums everything up for people curious about this stupid subject. Now I suggest we drop it here before it gets out of hand! Seriously.

I mean, the minute you bring up racism people get all bent out of shape. It's a simple discussion, that in fact goes AGAINST the concept of racism in Anime ([roving that there is none). I truly suggest that you go to that site. And I don't know why you find this offensive, I'm simply stating the facts, Anime is not racist, however many areas of Japan are not aware of many of the issues that plagued America (as far as racism in concerned) being that Japan is a roughly homogenous country. You know what, better yet, just read this (an excerpt from the website, seeing that people aren't visiting it to begin with...oh God this is gonna be long):

How do the Japanese perceive Blacks? Remember the analogy of how a Japanese seeing a foreigner is like a child seeing an elephant for the first time? Well, if you are black, it's more like a child seeing a unicorn.
Most Japanese have heard about unicorns such as Eddie Murphy, Michael Jordan, or Whitney Houston, but to see a real one is unimaginable. First of all, the specific term for Black person is kokujin (which literally means Black person) I seldom heard this term; I definitely heard gaijin more than anything else. From my
experience, there seems to be a few words that capture what many Japanese think of Blacks, I call them the K-words: kakkoi, kowaii, and kowaii so. Kakkoi means cool or hip, kowaii means scary , and kowaii so means sorry or pitiful. From my conversations with Japanese, these are the common justifications for such ideas: Blacks are cool because they seem naturally gifted at entertaining, singing, dancing, and athletics, or, Blacks are scary because they always seem to be in trouble with the law and they also carry guns (though many Japanese believe that ALL Americans carry guns), and lastly, Blacks are pitiful because they are the victims of racist oppression and can't get their act together because they don't seem to have strong cultural values like other people, especially like us Japanese. To hear such views was no shock to me because they are the same images and ideas that the media continues to perpetuate and feed, about Blacks, to the world.

Before coming to Japan, I asked my Japanese friend, Takeshi, what would be the worst thing a Japanese person could call a Black person. Takeshi, who had came all the way from Nagoya to Howard University in
order to study Afro-American studies (when I first asked Takeshi how did he found out about Howard, he told me that he was listening to a CD by Shai and while reading the linear notes, noticed that they gave many
thanks to their alma mater, Howard University), was definitely the best person to ask. Takeshi told me that the Japanese word gorirra ( gorilla ) comes to mind, but that it wasn't specifically used towards blacks since
many Japanese often use it to refer to any big, husky, and unattractive person. To specifically refer to a Black person as a means of degradation, Takeshi said, someone would probably say sambo gorirra. If you haven't guessed it, the Japanese term sambo is equivalent to the black-faced white entertainers from the early 19th century that would poorly imitate Blacks; hence, the sambo character. Even the Dragonball character, Mr. Popo, represents the sambo character with his jet-black skin, big wide eyes, oversized red lips, and subservient speech and mannerisms. Its impossible to live in Japan for a long period of time and not see the sambo character on aprons, slippers, or on key chains. I once read where someone saw a Japanese college student with a sambo character on her slippers with the words, N i g g e r Head. To me, such things are very offensive, but for many Japanese they are kawaii (cute). Not until I asked how they would feel if I sold little yellow dolls, with buck-teeth and slanted eyes did they understand why I felt so offended. Another word I should mention was daisansekaijin which literally means third world person, which does not just single out Blacks but any dark-skinned person who looks as if they came from an underdeveloped nation.

I honestly don't believe that these words and beliefs
represent how most Japanese feel towards Blacks. If
anything, they are extreme declamations and beliefs that
only an extremely small portion of the population would
believe or use. As said before, Japanese are some of the
kindness and most respectful people around. To take the
derogatory words from above as what Japanese really
think of Blacks would be like a Japanese person watching
a show like MTV Cribs, and believing that most Americans
must live as lush and fabulous as movie stars and
entertainers. The above is more like inside information
that you probably won't get from a generic "Guide To
Japan" book.

If anything, the Japanese are guilty of being ignorant of other cultural issues, but this comes from living in an isolated and homogenous culture. When I first went to an elementary school for a visit, the children surprised me when they tried rubbing my skin to see if my color would come off. Yet these were the same children that
would cry because they didn't want to see me go. Still, ignorance can be ugly. One of my Black friends once told me that some old man held out his hand for her to shake. Seeing this as an opportunity to extend her
friendship, she shook his hand. As she shook his hand, he began to lean over, with his tongue out of his mouth, preparing to lick her hand. Before he could accomplish his goal, she pulled her hand away and angrily asked what he was trying to do. His reply was that he wanted to find out if she tasted like coffee. Such incidents as these happen more in Northern Japan where it is more rural and the influx of foreigners is very rare....

There's more on the site but this is just a taste of it. Now I do hope that no one was offended by this, but instead informed. Either way, it doesn't make me like Anime any more or less, however it is rather interesting to me, and I hope to you as well.

justjakk
many apologies for my over-reacting...i greatly misunderstood what you meant.......you were ignorant to the fact that how you formed your qoutes that someone may become offended, just as much as that sentence i have typed may have offended you.........we do, in fact live in an age of freedom of speech........and do often times offend someone eventhough we do not intend to. i must however quote on the strange manner of an african american...........they call each other "the N word" while others of different races cannot as it is seen as derogatory.........once again, i must say the lines between what is called "politically correct" or "non-offensive", is very thin. each of us do have something different that will offend us.............as for myself, the reason i am often offended easily by the word racist, is that i have had others accuse me of being that when i would not be saying anything at all towards the race or ethnic background.........i have often not said anything and been silent for most of my school life due to this problem....if i did over-react, i must again apologyze. i must remind you that thread you found was closed for the reason that many people are easily offended when the subject is raised......please remember what is writen in the site you referred us to, and look through another viewpoint..........to japanese, looking towards their lifestyles and how they live, they must find this to be an ignorant topic as much as a person from america would find it ignorant to have to learn another language cause someone who doesnt speak english might come around and not know english. you must remember everyone has their own home........to come to your house and tell you that you should have magnets on your refridgerator and you should not have your bedroom on a higher floor in your house would be invasion of space and would not go too well with another person. everything read might not be a correct viewpoint. if im in my house, i should be able to walk around in my boxers without someone getting mad or embarrassed of my appearance. its not "ignorance". its life. if an african american goes to japan, they will have to understand another culture. just the same as someone from another country would have to learn english, or parts of it in order to communicate when coming to america. if i come to your house, i muct respect your belongings as well as any way that you would want to uphold myself in your home. the writer was showing differences between life in japan and america. there are differences in cultures, because they did not have slavery (as i mentioned earlier). the responce to my babbling you gave was the same...remember, your house is your house. someone elses house is their house. dont expect someone to change their personal surroundings to fit someone elses likes or dislikes. cause it is personal space that is no one elses but theirs. that, would be controling someone elses choice of life. i hope i have formed by sentences in a way that did not offend as well as explained myself fully.

Sarlock
I was TRYING to read this whole thing before posting... But I've gotta say this before I finish reading the whole thread. READ WHAT OTHER PEOPLE POST BEFORE RANTING AND RAVING LIKE LUNATICS! Seriously, half the posts I've read here are just people coming in, posting, and leaving without reading any of the material.

It's pathetic when you come into a thread without reading the material and try starting an argument, and that's PROBABLY why the OTHER thread got locked, because NO ONE actually read what the OTHER PEOPLE were POSTING.

And I'm going to say this too. Reread what's posted as well. I read one post where someone had read about half of what was posted, misunderstood, and begun a rant on that.

Sun Goddess
Yeah I agree with the "your house is your house" theory. However, unfortunately Japan's "house" was tainted with that little tidbit of racist propaganda because it was projected from non-other than America. Sort of a word of mouth thing. I just wish that particular word of mouth would change, just as much as we're trying to change as well.

And yeah, people do need to read the posts all the way through first. no expression

justjakk
i did read what was there and my argument was not with the anime being racist, however, it did enter my post. my argument was when sun goddess claimed there is a lack of african american influence in the american media. my point was for her to look around and see what is really there. Art Franklin is aa african american news reporter amung others in that field of media. There are also tons of african americans in the DJ radio business. As i said befor, there are numerous sstations on tv as well (added befor) radio suited for african american views. What i referred to as me ranying and raving, i referred to me chaging my topic and going off about myself dealing with racism. And in my last post, i tried to make sure it didnt go back there. After i made the post, Sun made a comment that "yes I'm quite aware of the many African-American media in the U.S (i.e BET network), but truly the majority of media is well...the Majority"

I want to ask. What is this "Majority"? You know as well as I that this can be taken in many ways. Like how when I went to school, the "Majority" of students were African American. I was the only student in my class of caucasian background. I actually doubt that there was no more than 10 caucasian students in my entire school. I was the only one in my graduating class that was caucasian as well as my cousin.

Then she said "Case closed". If you dont fully explain yourself, should we? We might interpret that in a very different view then what you have. I am glad you joined the "please read" argument. I would like to tell you what i read that made me rant and rave. I saw another teenager from my school saying "its not fair". You see, you in fact, claimed you were making a responce to my post rather than read it through, cause you had something to say. I wonder, did you get past the part where i said "you were ignorant to the fact that how you formed your qoutes that someone may become offended, just as much as that sentence i have typed may have offended you." ? It goes to show that even the most self-applauded person can be turned by their own words.

No the case is definetly not closed because of the fact that people like myself and people like yourself cant seem to reach a point where they find that you cant make everyone happy all the time. No matter what is said in this world, you will find someone who will get offended by it. Political Correctness will state whats good and whats bad, when it shouldnt. Everyone should sit and listen. I mean really listen. Not just blank out everything after the part that made them angry. Cause yanno, they may just be cutting out the good part.

Sun Goddess
When I spoke of the "Majority," I was referring to Caucasian Americans being that they occupy most of America's populous. The fact that you attended a predominantly African American school actually has nothing to do with the point that I'm trying to stress here. Caucasions are stastically the majority in America.

What is my point you ask? Well, being that this dicussion has deepened further, so has my objective.

When I spoke of a lack of African American influence in the media, perhaps I should have specified my meaning. Perhaps I should have stated the lack of POSTIVE African American influence in the media. I want you think...breathe, recollect for a moment, and go down that mental roster of media influenced by African Americans. Tell me, is there much to go on that you would consider "postive."

Now I must specify what I mean by "positive," because frankly, no matter the race or nationality, the media has a tendancy to come up short in that department generally speaking. This is what I mean when I say "positive;" is it often that you see the light reflected upon Blacks doing something constructive for mankind (i.e saving the world in the latest flick...not that I'm asking for that or anything, but it's just an example. Personally, I find that concept rather cheap. But you get the idea)? Point in fact, there are a select few positive portrayals (i.e Denzel Washington's character in Antwone Fisher) but I find it rather ironic that it's usually the negative images that get the most attention and "love," (i.e Denzel Washington's character in Training Day...Oscar material no question no expression ) when at the same time people are trying to abandon that.

Originally posted by Sun Goddess
From my conversations with Japanese, these are the common justifications for such ideas: Blacks are cool because they seem naturally gifted at entertaining, singing, dancing, and athletics, or, Blacks are scary because they always seem to be in trouble with the law and they also carry guns (though many Japanese believe that ALL Americans carry guns), and lastly, Blacks are pitiful because they are the victims of racist oppression and can't get their act together because they don't seem to have strong cultural values like other people, especially like us Japanese. To hear such views was no shock to me because they are the same images and ideas that the media continues to perpetuate and feed, about Blacks, to the world.


I'm just going to come out and say it; it's sad and disappointing, and most times frustrating. sad

justjakk
bravo.....thank you for saying what you meant without leaving out the words that actually get to the point. i do agree with you there. i must say, all of the things you have typed have been very well thought out. like mine, on the other hand, which has been slapped down to prove a point. you can explain things and come to the end of any argument when yuo say the right words. the lack of positive media. that is what i was trying to get you to look at. and i would have taken it all out of context if it were to have taken you to get to that. i do apologyze to the extent that i took it to, rather all i said was true. i do however read back and see where i said you said something and it was someone else, i must apologyze for that too.

now if we could put this thread to rest for another day when someone would like to add to it. it actually shows that with a little talk, anything can be resolved. now, if i had not placed all the pressure on you just to get that one word, it would have shown the way an educated conversation would have gone. on my part at least.

it does seem like slavery has made a wound that may not heal quickly and can just as easily be infected and reopen. it is something that everyone as to think about and overlook. it is a touchy subject, but with time, it will be overlooked. as time goes by, marriages between races wll seem as normal as breath. i am not saying that their isnt any, i just say that you dont see many of them. and it you really think about it, the race tat was in slavery doesnt really exhist in the states anymore. with the mixing of races, you are blending the edges, creating a new race.

this new race wont be as quick to hate because of a skin color. as the races blend together, they will all become one race again. everyone will understand each other and no oe will be able to say they hate another cause how they offended their heritage because everyone will have the same heritage. they will have the heritage of life.

Sun Goddess
Aw, tear ;_;. smile. And I do agree. No one is pure anything, everyone has a little bit of some other race down the line believe it or not, and that further proves our point: to belittle or berate another race is to belittle and berate yourself. Love yourself, and you can't help but love everyone else. wink

Now as far as the African American race is concerned, day by day we are working and progressing to healing those past-inflicted wounds. I guess you could say right now we just have to eliminate the scar tissue that those wounds have so ruthlessly left behind.

justjakk
i think they have a medicine for that..

Sun Goddess
That would be...?

xkitox
hi, i havnt really read all of the thread, but i just wanted to post up this pic, its a scene from Ah! My Goddess where some demon lady is trying to bring terror upon the world by activating some urn thingy ...i think it qualifies as being pretty racist confused

Blue nocturne
Are people bored?

GODOFALL1
Grow up People and stop reading into so many things. You want to see racism? Just watch the old Tom and Jerry cartoons.

reanimationxx
Wow. I read that story and all I have to say is: wow. I had no Idea that people in japan would even consider using such offensive language. I mean, I know they are edgey about foreingers but thats just-- augh.

Its crazy for me, a dark skinned jamaican, now that I think about this. I could name so many anime shows and on each of then there would only be, like, a handful of black people in them! Some maybe even none!

Thank you very much for pointing that out, its really making me think.

^w^

White Reeper
O so black people call everyone racist because they are not in anime that much who cares they always have to find something to complain about you don't seen Mexicans calling anime racist!O ya and watch the Boondocks or however you spell that shows name.

Blue nocturne
This topic is dumb, how would you tell someones race through an animated medium
What race is she?



Originally posted by Hell's Harmony
O so black people call everyone racist because they are not in anime that much who cares they always have to find something to complain about you don't seen Mexicans calling anime racist!O ya and watch the Boondocks or however you spell that shows name.

Boondocks isn't a japanese animation.

Hell's Harmony
I don't really care I am not racist but black people complain about everyone/thing being racist.

Blue nocturne
Originally posted by Hell's Harmony
I don't really care I am not racist but black people complain about everyone/thing being racist.

I'm not complaining.

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