Why didn't Qui Gon just TAKE anakins mother?

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Vanquish
Something just isn't right about that whole "I didn't actually come here to free slaves."

Who cares? It's quite simple to me. Slavery is wrong. Aren't the Jedi's supposed to fight for peace and justice in the galaxy, and uphold what is right? Well, then why the hell didn't he just take Anakin and his mother, by force if necessary off the planet. It's not like the Hutts would have made a fuss over 1 slave. Anakin could have been trained as a jedi, and his mother would live in peace, maybe start a new family.

I'm quite sure Anakin would not have turned to the dark side if his mother didn't die. Qui gon could have just done the right thing in the beginning and made the 5 sequels a mess.

Dark Lord Plo
you see..... stealing is more of a "sith thing", and it's not the "JEDI WAY"

Vanquish
It's not stealing when you are "freeing" a slave. It's not like he's stealing Jabba's daughters virginity. He's a Jedi, and Jedi's are supposed to look after those who injustice effects but they can't save themselves.

Dark Lord Plo
lol... guess your right

DeVi| D0do
All slaves have a transmitter placed inside their body somewhere... any attempt to escape and the blow you up! BOOM!

Vanquish
Well it was obviously removed for Anakin to leave when he was freed right? Put a lightsaber on the slave owners ball sack and watch how fast they deactivate it smile

Qui gon used the force to make that die come up to free anakin right? So basically he is interfering already to make sure he gets what he wants. Why can't he just go the extra bit and get anakins mother too.

Makes no sense why he basically cheated anakins freedom, but developed some conscience to protect the slave / master relationship when it came to his mother.

DeVi| D0do
I'm pretty sure it would be against the Jedi Code to desex unwilling creatures... stick out tongue

mysterio69
well, aside from the transmittor, what the hell purpose would she serve. aren't the jedi taken away from their families at a young age so as to not have any real attachments?

Vanquish
The purpose it would serve is that she wouldn't have been kidnapped, tortured for a month, and then killed. Anakin went crazy when that happened, and it was one of the major things that led to his turn to the darkside.

If Qui gon freed her then, or went back later with Anakin and freed her, even though he would not spend any time with her, he would still know that she is safe, and he did everything he could for her.

Nah, qui gon could have, and should have saved her. I don't see how it is against the code to free a slave.

DeVi| D0do
But she wasn't kidnapped, tortured and killed because she was a slave... all that happened after Cleigg freed her.

Vanquish
Well obviously though if Qui Gon took her away with anakin like he should have, she wouldn't have been there to be kidnapped now would she?

Ushgarak
"I didn't come here to free slaves."

Qui-Gon's attitude in this area is one of the most mature things about TPM. Anyone can fantasise about how great it would be to kill all the slavers and free the slaves. But not only was that not Qui-Gon's job, he also had no legal mandate to do it..

It's not that QGJ doesn't care, he knows he just doesn't have the right. Tatooine is its own planet with its own laws. To aggressively attack the structure of that planet whilst acting as an agent of the Republic is tantamount to forcing the Republic to declare war on the Hutts.

He has absolutely no grounds or right to do any of this at all, and he knows it. So instead, he maturely works inside the system, and frees Anakin that way. Ok, yes, he did rig the die result a bit, but he still works within fair dealing within the system of the planet- which is why he knows he could take it to the Hutts and win, if need be- his final threat to Watto.

exanda kane
Because it's a movie

viking12344
I agree with this. While strong atatchment is not allowed, at the least, Obi-wan and Anakin should have taken a trip to tatooine during one of their vacations( I hear the benefits are excellent for jedi) and just bought her from watto. Its a pretty big plot hole. Keep her some where safe at least.

chilled monkey
Originally posted by Ushgarak
"I didn't come here to free slaves."

Qui-Gon's attitude in this area is one of the most mature things about TPM. Anyone can fantasise about how great it would be to kill all the slavers and free the slaves. But not only was that not Qui-Gon's job, he also had no legal mandate to do it..

It's not that QGJ doesn't care, he knows he just doesn't have the right. Tatooine is its own planet with its own laws. To aggressively attack the structure of that planet whilst acting as an agent of the Republic is tantamount to forcing the Republic to declare war on the Hutts.

He has absolutely no grounds or right to do any of this at all, and he knows it. So instead, he maturely works inside the system, and frees Anakin that way. Ok, yes, he did rig the die result a bit, but he still works within fair dealing within the system of the planet- which is why he knows he could take it to the Hutts and win, if need be- his final threat to Watto.

Yep. That's quite right.

Vanquish
The Star Trek Prime derective argument huh, ok... smile

I still think Slavery is generally considered wrong, and Qui gon as a Jedi should have gone above and beyond his primary mandate and freed her along with Anakin. Or at the very least, Obi wan should have gone back with Anakin at a later date and freed / Bought her. Obi should have known that Anakin was feeling torn by this issue, and he could have put it to rest before it became the major issue that it did.

Not to mention again the simple fact that if Qui Gon leaves everything to the Will of the Force, he wouldn't have had to manipulate that die to make sure he gets Anakin now would he? He went away from it partially by doing so, so why not go the extra mile and get them both?

chilled monkey
If Qui-Gonn had lived, he'd have probably gone back as soon as he could, with a big sum of money and legitamately bought and freed her.

DarkCanadian
Originally posted by Vanquish
Something just isn't right about that whole "I didn't actually come here to free slaves."

Who cares? It's quite simple to me. Slavery is wrong. Aren't the Jedi's supposed to fight for peace and justice in the galaxy, and uphold what is right? Well, then why the hell didn't he just take Anakin and his mother, by force if necessary off the planet. It's not like the Hutts would have made a fuss over 1 slave. Anakin could have been trained as a jedi, and his mother would live in peace, maybe start a new family.

I'm quite sure Anakin would not have turned to the dark side if his mother didn't die. Qui gon could have just done the right thing in the beginning and made the 5 sequels a mess.

Because of her implant thingy; if they tried to smuggle her off too, she would've been blown into several thousand smoking pieces.

Dresta
Originally posted by exanda kane
Because it's a movie

u know that u could say that to just about anything anyone says about a film. therefore if that's all your gonna say what 's the point in posting.

jabbar
Originally posted by exanda kane
Because it's a movie

hahaha!! true, true....

yerssot
why do people think that they can just take a trip to Tatooine and free the slaves or buy Shmi?

Like a Jedi who brings peace and justice in the entire galaxy has time for personal affairs... and then we reach again the bottemline:
Jedi shouldn't have personal belongings or attachments in the first place. He simply had to forget his mother, that was the only possible way to become a 'good' Jedi

Blu93GT
none of the other youngling padawans brought their mommies with them when they went to Jedi school, and they all turned out okay.

--------------------------------------------------------------------
here's a question:

why didn't Anakin keep in touch with her? i mean... he didn't even know that she had been sold! or freed! or married!

as a FREE woman, she didn't even invite her SON to her WEDDING!!!

what's up with THAT!? the mystery deepens....

Vanquish
None of the other younglings BEGAN their training having already so many attachments in life. You can't compare the two at all. Man, what movie were you watching. The whole reason Anakin's situation is complicated is because he was so old when he began his training.

Don't you find it strange that the entire jedi council knew anakin was going to struggle with his attachment to his mother and did nothing about it? Shit, the council even says, his thoughts dwell on his mother, he's too old to be trained. At what point do the Jedi's decide, hey, this isn't what we would normally do, but in Anakins Special case, we should probably do something about his mother before it effects his training.

It doesn't take a genius to figure out that Anakin being dragged away from his mother at such a developed stage in life, and her still being a slave is going to be a future problem for the kid. No other jedi ever had to face that reality like Anakin did.

Come on....

Ushgarak
Originally posted by Vanquish
The Star Trek Prime derective argument huh, ok... smile

I still think Slavery is generally considered wrong, and Qui gon as a Jedi should have gone above and beyond his primary mandate and freed her along with Anakin.

It's not the Prime Directive argument at all. It's political. Like I say, he had no right to force official Republican hostilities against the Hutts. Nor could he guarantee the survival of himself or, more importantly, his misison if he took such action.

Like I say, he had no right to take action against the Hutts just because what they do is wrong. If that were possible the Jedi would have done it centuries ago.

That slavery exists at the periphery of the Republic is simply a fact that QGJ had to accept, and he was not in a position to do anything about it. He had to work inside the system.

And the Council eventually accepted QGJ's pleading that Anakin was the Chosen One and so they could not afford to NOT train him, despite the risk. Yoda was overruled by the Council, it seems.

DarkCrawler
Luke faces Vader:

Vader: "Don't be foolish, Luke, you can never defeat me!"

Luke: "Really? Remember that transmitter they put inside your head when you were an young child?"

Vader: "Uh...yes?"

Luke: "It was never removed." *Click*

BOOM

DenKi
lmao

dgeniu
But aren`t Jedi supposed to grow up without their parents? Contact with the outside world is limitted for younglings, so they are not influenced by possible Dark Side temptations from an early age. They are supposed to grow up surrounded by Jedi Teachings, not parental advices - parents are not Jedi Masters, they may have been 'corrupted' by the hardships of life and led on the path to the Dark Side or smth.

Shmi: "Have you cleaned your room?"
Anakin:"Mom! I have to meditate!"
Shmi:"That`s it! You`re grounded! And get a normal haircut!"

I think Qui-Gon didn`t want to take Shmi along for this reason, not that he didn`t figure it out.

Anakin:"Look, mom, I finally got a lightsaber!"
Shmi:"Give me that! I thought I had talked to Yoda about children carrying lethal weapons about!" - storms out of the room -

Vanquish
Anakin is a special case though. No Padawans don't have their parents with them, but that's different. All other padawans are taken at a very young age, before they have developed the capacity to have emotional attachments. Anakin was old enough that the council and Qui gon should have known that the attachment to his mother would pose a serious future problem for him. They should not have trained him like Yoda said, but they did anyway. So if they are going to make the wrong choice to train him, they shouldn't make another mistake and assume the same training they always use will work on him. They should have been more mindful of his training, and paid far more attention to the fact that he was very attached to his mother, and that problem has to be rectified at some point for him to progress. I'm sure in the meditations or conversations with obi wan and Yoda, the topic of his mother did come up in the future. Why they chose to ignore it and treat him like a regular padawan, was their ultimate failure wasen't it.

Also, after seeing padme, anakin says that not a day has gone by in the last 10 years that he didn't think about her. Shouldn't a big fuking red flag go off in obi wans head right there. Woah, wait a minute, the kid seems to still be infatuated with Padme. Maybe I should do something about that now? Nah, fuk it, lets wait till they are married and have kids to do something about it...

Ushgarak
More detail on the Obi-Wan/Anakin's mother thing might have been nice. We know that he knew (talking with Anakin about his mother in the lift up to the chambers in AOTC), and we also know that he specifically said to the Council in AOTC that it was getting difficult and dangerous with Anakin and that they should do something, in which he was ignored, again on Chosen One grounds. I think, therefore, it is unfair to see him as totally irresponsible in that respect, but I do agree that we should have seen more of that.

Qui-Gon was, of course, right. As GL puts it, he made a very dangerous decision but he was ultimately right. Part of the tragedy of the SW story is that if QGJ had lived it probably would all have been fine. It was that Obi-Wan, who was not as good a teacher as QGJ or Yoda, was trapped by his final promise to QGJ to do that work that the whole thing started to unravel.

"Qui gon should have known that the attachment to his mother would pose a serious future problem for him"

Again, to be fair on both the film and QGJ, Obi-Wan actively says that to him, and QGJ refutes it in his own style- saying Anakin's future was uncertain, not DEFINITELY dangerous. QGJ was taking a risk and he knew it. As I say, the ultimate tragedy was that he died.

darht dude
for a jedi he`s really stupid



big grin big grin

Vanquish
Ya I hear that Ush, I can't dump any of it on Qui Gon. I have no doubt if he lived he would have done something for anakin to resolve some of the attachment issues he has other then just telling him to stop.

I think Obi wans training, although probably very good for most padawans, fell short in anakins case. Obi wan is just too damn good a person to even comprehend anakins issues he was going through. Obi wan doesn't have a single thought against the jedi code, so of course he can't relate to anakins problems. I think if Jedi that didn't follow the code so strictly trained anakin, things may have been different.

And I don't mean to imply that Qui gon is a lesser jedi, but he certainly didn't agree 100% with the strict following of the code. I think he would have been a perfect Master for Anakin.

Like you said, a tragedy that he didn't live to train him. But then again, we wouldn't have movies if he Anakin turned out just fine smile

PloKoonFanatic
Qui-Gon didn't take Shmi with because he made a bet with Watto and lost. He wagered Anakin's freedom, and tried to win Shmi's also. Watto made a bet to allow her to enter the bet too. Do you remember when they rolled the cube which had some red and some blue on it? That was the betting of whether or not she would be allowed too. Qui-Gon tried all he could.

Vanquish
If you also recall though, Qui Gon used the force to make sure the die landed on freeing Anakin, not his mother. That's hardly the Jedi way, valueing one life over another. If Qui Gon was truly the one who always listens to the will of the force like he claims, he would not have needed to use the force to make it land on Anakin.

As far as i'm concerned, once he made that decision to use the force to falsly make it land on Anakin and not his mother, he should also have committed to doing anything he could to make sure his mother was also freed, even if it meant futher meddling.

If you think about it actually, Qui Gon was the one that sealed her fate to remain a slave, not Watto. Watto is simply following the laws of his planet. Qui Gon was the one who deceived, and broke the laws of the Jedi and everything they should stand for.

You can't use the force to make sure the die DOESN'T land on her, and then just leave her on the planet to rot thinking he did everything he could. That's not cool. If you're going to interfere, then do it 100%, not some half ass'd way like he did.

InsaneNoodlyGuy
Originally posted by Vanquish
If you also recall though, Qui Gon used the force to make sure the die landed on freeing Anakin, not his mother. That's hardly the Jedi way, valueing one life over another.

Are you joking? that's UTTERLY what the Jedi were about. Taking children from their parents raising them away from their natural surrondings because of their potential.

Ushgarak has it right. It wasn't Qui Gon's place to do any of these things. Doing so would have actually caused more problems then solutions. And many of the arguments here about how anakin would or wouldn't have turned out are entirely based on hindsight logic that Quigon couldn't have possibly considered at the time. Personally, i always saw the legalization of slavery and the Jedi's complacency on Tatooine as a subtle reminder of how corrupt the Old Republic was and how mired in it the Jedi had become.

Chilled monkey, if Qui Gon had lived, he would have left Shimi where she was and done his best to make sure Anakin would learn to detach himself from her, just like any other Jedi would have and Obi wan did try to do.

If we except Eu (Ghosts of Tatooine ), Qui gon did in fact have a subtle influence on getting Shimi Skywalked freed. And look at where that got her. Killed by sandpeople. If the uppity slave had known her place, she'd be alive.

Vanquish, why the hell would he leave it up to chance? What would he have done with Shimi skywalker? Had sex with her to see if he could make another Anakin?

Vanquish
I guess Qui Gon's hippocracy had to be laid on a little bit thicker for you to get it is all. Personally, I saw it clear as day, but everyone has a different interpretation of things I suppose.

JediMusician
Or course he had sex with her. Didn't you watch Ep. I? It's obvious from the way those two interact. As for making another Anakin, since Qui-Gon is neither The Force, nor Darth Sidious, that would be impossible.
As for the emotional attachment; there was none. There may have been passion, but Qui-Gon doesn't play by the rules, which gets him killed. But then he kind of cheats that, too.

InsaneNoodlyGuy
... kill yourself.

Captain REX
Ushgarak has it right...

And JediMusician? Cram it! That's just stupid.

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