Galaxy's Stronge Force

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General Zodiac
Which are the strongest army... No Star Forge or DeathStar.

2Tidus!
I should say the Republic. Better aim and forces.

General Zodiac
Yes but they have Grievous who is not a Jedi or Sith.

Darth_Glentract
Empire. Without the Death Star they still have the Tarkin, Galaxy Gun, Eclipse 1 and Eclipse 2, Sun Crusher, World Devastators, Grand Admiral Thrawn, Twin Coruscant Death Stars, Many super star destroyers, some orbital nightcloaks. Without superweapons they still win. 25000 star destroyers. Most(probably around 15000-20000) were destroyed in internal struggle with the death of palpatine.

General Zodiac
Grievous was a grand leader who won many battles in the Clone War when they were outnumbered.

Emperor Revan
You don't have Revan's Sith army here! With Lord Revan in command I think he could take on just about any force. Remember the Mandalorians were defeating the Republic until he joined the Republic army and beat the Mandalorians. Then he turns on the Republic he just fought for and defeats them. Then he turns on the Sith he just fought for (which seemed invincible) and defeated them. Throw in Bastila and her battle meditation and IMO even the Empire would fall. Especially since their army isn't too shabby and Revan can turn most anybody with ease...

Without Revan's Force, I say the Empire for Glentract's reasons.

Great Vengeance
The empire was the greatest force the galaxy had ever known. Even without the death star theres still all the star destroyers and almost endless ties, also theres grand admiral thrawn who was one of the greatest tacticians ever and ofcourse there was palpatine and vader.

Darth Somebody
Emperor Revan, I'm damn tired of everyone thinking Darth Revan is a god and that everything about him was perfect. He was very smart. He was very powerful. But according to Star Wars.com databank:

"Palpatine was the leader of the most powerful tyrannical regime that the galaxy ever knew" - Revan's empire was a tyrannical regime. And apparently The Galactic Empire - according to the site - was better.

In the Expanded Universe, it also said that "all previous empires pale in comparison to the regime that Palpatine set in place."

There ya go.

Great Vengeance
I agree, revan was strong but not that strong. He was almost killed by some starship fire, luke has reflected an AT-AT blast back at it.

Darth_Glentract
Starship lasers a many times more powerful than AT-AT lasers.

General Zodiac
But wouldn't the Galactic Republic's army beat the Empire's since they're pretty much the same thing?

Emperor Revan
Originally posted by Darth Somebody
Emperor Revan, I'm damn tired of everyone thinking Darth Revan is a god and that everything about him was perfect. He was very smart. He was very powerful. But according to Star Wars.com databank:

"Palpatine was the leader of the most powerful tyrannical regime that the galaxy ever knew" - Revan's empire was a tyrannical regime. And apparently The Galactic Empire - according to the site - was better.

In the Expanded Universe, it also said that "all previous empires pale in comparison to the regime that Palpatine set in place."

There ya go.

That's because Revan left the galaxy. He had the Galaxy at his feet and he left to fight the ancient Sith Empire. I hardly think he's a God but if the Empire's so damn powerful then how did the Rebel Alliance beat it with a third or so in numbers? If they can do it, yes, then I think Lord Revan can.

Oh and Great Vengeance: Anyone would've died from laserfire from a CAPITAL SHIP. Especially since he didn't know it was coming. Plus Darth Revan got FAR stronger since then.

General Zodiac
How? Sidious was stupid and revealed them the location of the DeathStar and had all those StarDestroyers doing nothing.

Emperor Revan
So why wouldn't he do it again? Revan's probably the best tactical genius ever. Throw in Bastila and her battle meditation, not to mention the army which isn't too shabby and it wouldn't be hard if Sidious is that stupid like you just said.

General Zodiac
Did you read? Best? (No Jedi/Sith)

Darth Somebody
Emperor Raven, you're making excuses. Revan's empire still existed - even though he eventually shut it down. And still, Star Wars databank said that The Galactic Empire was more powerful. You have it there. Palpatine's empire was superior to Revan's. Get over it.

Grand Admiral Thrawn is possibly a superior tactition to Revan. Thrawn led the Imperial Remnant - which was considerably weaker than the original Empire. Revan was at the top of his game when he was winning. Thrawn led a dying empire to victory after victory - with an empire weaker than before.

Palpatine also uses Battle Meditation. Quite well, in fact. It was one of the reasons that in space - the Empire almost always won the battles. Not to mention Palpatine had a far more powerful arsenal of super weapons. The Death Stars I and II, The Sun Crusher, World Devastators, and the Galaxy Gun.

You and I both know, Emperor Revan, that ESPECIALLY if all of these weapons went up against Revan's army - he would be destroyed.

Emperor Revan
Originally posted by Darth Somebody
Emperor Raven, you're making excuses. Revan's empire still existed - even though he eventually shut it down. And still, Star Wars databank said that The Galactic Empire was more powerful. You have it there. Palpatine's empire was superior to Revan's. Get over it.

Grand Admiral Thrawn is possibly a superior tactition to Revan. Thrawn led the Imperial Remnant - which was considerably weaker than the original Empire. Revan was at the top of his game when he was winning. Thrawn led a dying empire to victory after victory - with an empire weaker than before.

Palpatine also uses Battle Meditation. Quite well, in fact. It was one of the reasons that in space - the Empire almost always won the battles. Not to mention Palpatine had a far more powerful arsenal of super weapons. The Death Stars I and II, The Sun Crusher, World Devastators, and the Galaxy Gun.

You and I both know, Emperor Revan, that ESPECIALLY if all of these weapons went up against Revan's army - he would be destroyed.

It's not always the strongest empire that wins, we saw that when the Rebels defeated the Empire. I'm not saying Revan's empire had more forces or power, it didn't. But it had other things going for it too.

Thrawn could probably compete with Revan, I'll give you that. However, I still think Revan's a better tactician for good reasons, and Thrawn didn't/couldn't do much since he's not the head of the Empire. Revan alone could influence a war so much that he alone could switch from the winning side to the losing side and could make the losing side defeat the winning side.

Palpatine did not necessarily have battle meditation. Thrawn thinks so, but I believe if the Emperor wasn't killed by Vader he still would've died by Lando's hands so that's hardly impressive. As for the superweapons, he never had any two of those at the same time, heck, he never even knew about the Sun crusher.

And if you're bringing that up then I can bring in the Star Forge which is basically unbeatable since it's got an enormous dampening field around it which disables any ships that aren't Revan's fleet. The Empire wouldn't know and most of their fleet would crash. Next, the Star Forge produces an endless fleet of ships, has really good defenses, and is a gigantic space station. Combine all that with Revan's tactical genius which lets him turn most fights to his favor, AND Bastila's battle meditation and their army is nearly invincible. Also remember how easily Revan turned people to his cause.

Now, there is a way to shut off the dampening field but you HAVE to have the Rakatan's help. Revan can kill them all off in KOTOR leaving none alive and therefore, no one could ever get in to shut it off. Even IF there were some Rakatans left, the Empire (must've survived the crash as well) would have to get them to open the shields which takes several hours on it's own. Then, only Force sensitives can go into the temple where they would have to fight dozens of Dark Jedi and convince the computer to let them through. This will all only happen if they can manage to find the location of the Star Forge too.

So no, the Empire was defeated by the Rebellion and therefore I think Revan's army could defeat it, especially if he had the Star Forge. Now, if Revan doesn't have the Star Forge and the Empire has all those super weapons at one time, then yes I do think the Empire would win. I also think the Empire would win if Revan wasn't leading his forces.

General Zodiac: No I didn't see that because I didn't look at the poll. I apologize.

General Zodiac
It's alright. I should have said it in the forum's title.

Nai Fohl
Erm...no Jedi / Sith in it ?

The Galactic Empire would win. They have more troops and ships than the Republic and the Republic defeated the CIS. Without Luke Skywalker the Empire would have even defeated the Alliance. They would have far more firepower than the Yuuzhan Vong and even more than the Infinite Empire had. And they would have nearly every known tactical genious on their site (Thrawn, Tarkin, Daala and so on...).

Great Vengeance
Originally posted by Emperor Revan
Oh and Great Vengeance: Anyone would've died from laserfire from a CAPITAL SHIP. Especially since he didn't know it was coming. Plus Darth Revan got FAR stronger since then. Didnt know it was coming? I thought revan had infinite foresight? And revan didnt recieve the full impact of the blast, the blast hit his ship and revan died in the explosion.

Emperor Revan
Originally posted by Nai Fohl
Erm...no Jedi / Sith in it ?

The Galactic Empire would win. They have more troops and ships than the Republic and the Republic defeated the CIS. Without Luke Skywalker the Empire would have even defeated the Alliance. They would have far more firepower than the Yuuzhan Vong and even more than the Infinite Empire had. And they would have nearly every known tactical genious on their site (Thrawn, Tarkin, Daala and so on...).

They wouldn't have Daala necessarily and Tarkin was killed by Luke who wasn't a Jedi at that time. Yuuzhan Vong can compete with Jedi and one of them nearly killed NJO Luke. I think I have to change my mind to Yuuzhan Vong if there's no Jedi/Sith.

Great Vengeance
Originally posted by Nai Fohl
Erm...no Jedi / Sith in it ?

The Galactic Empire would win. They have more troops and ships than the Republic and the Republic defeated the CIS. Without Luke Skywalker the Empire would have even defeated the Alliance. They would have far more firepower than the Yuuzhan Vong and even more than the Infinite Empire had. And they would have nearly every known tactical genious on their site (Thrawn, Tarkin, Daala and so on...).

Agreed, the empire would be unstoppable if you dont count in jedi and sith, the rebels only won because of luke.

Great Vengeance
Originally posted by Emperor Revan
They wouldn't have Daala necessarily and Tarkin was killed by Luke who wasn't a Jedi at that time. Yuuzhan Vong can compete with Jedi and one of them nearly killed NJO Luke. I think I have to change my mind to Yuuzhan Vong if there's no Jedi/Sith.

The vong knew the empire would slaughter them, its been stated before.

General Zodiac
That'w why the Vongs hid from the Empire.

exanda kane
Again you kinda wrong, the Vong bided their time because they knew that war with the Empire would drag on too long. And look at them, they bided their time and destroyed half the republic. But the Infintite Empire would win . . .

HimoKun
The Infinite Empire. Why? Cuz it hold on to it's holdings the longest, all it's warriors were able to use the force, and they have the Star Forge.

Emperor Revan
Originally posted by General Zodiac
That'w why the Vongs hid from the Empire.

So they hid from the Empire but not from the Republic that beat the Empire and restored the Jedi knights huh? Sure.

General Zodiac
They got lucky. If not for Luke the Alliance would have been destroyed back in ANH.

Emperor Revan
Yeah but in the Battle of Endor, Luke or not, the Death Star 2 and the Executor would've been destroyed. Heck, even if somehow Luke caused the Death Star 2 to blow up, then without him IG-88 would've killed all organics in the entire galaxy and the Galactic Empire still woul've fallen.

General Zodiac
Yeah but that was thanks to the Emperor's stupidness. And even after ROTJ many Imperial soldiers remained.

Emperor Revan
Yes but the Yuuzhan Vong took over Coruscant, beating the New Republic even with the Jedi's help. They have living ships that respond to them and what they lack in numbers they make up for with skill.

exanda kane
Infinite Empire Owns

Fishy
If you want to exclude every force user then the infinite empire is dead before it even fights because they have billions of troops with the force. If they can still use the force however they would own everybody's asses and do it hard. Star Forge or no, it hardly matters their fire power may be weaker then that of the SSD's but they can still destroy those ships by using the force. You don't defeat a billion force users easily.

If all force users are gone, I would have to say Vong, with the Empire at a close second.

Emperor Revan
I don't think all of the Rakatans are Force users. After all, they said they needed Revan's help to get into the temple and destroy the Star Forge because they couldn't go in because they can't use the Force. Or somesuch. I believe they had some other way of controlling the Star Forge but their willpower was too weak and it eventually destroyed them.

Anywho, with no Force users I also think it's the Vong with the Empire at a close second.

HimoKun
Revan, that was because they were weakened by the plague which destroyed their empire.

Great Vengeance
How can you go against such blatant evidence, the vong clearly state the empire would slaughter them.

HimoKun
WHERE??????????

Emperor Revan
Originally posted by Great Vengeance
How can you go against such blatant evidence, the vong clearly state the empire would slaughter them.

Yeah, where? All other evidence shows the Vong beating the Empire since the Rebellion did. Those Yuuzhan Vong warriors are probably around ROTJ Luke's power as well.

Himokun: The rakatan computer in the basement says the Star Forge corrupted them and ultimately led to the Infinite Empire's fall.

HimoKun
I remember the mentioning of the plague taking them out because it only targetted them, so they soon became barbarian like.

Emperor Revan
Hmm, I do seem to remember that. I think that combined with the Star Forge corrupting them is what killed most of them. The computer says it corrupted them.

Great Vengeance
Originally posted by HimoKun
WHERE??????????

I dont remember the exact page or book in the NJO series but if I come across the quote ill let you know.

Nai Fohl
Originally posted by Emperor Revan
Yes but the Yuuzhan Vong took over Coruscant, beating the New Republic even with the Jedi's help. They have living ships that respond to them and what they lack in numbers they make up for with skill.

Wasn't it NJO Luke that first denied help and than later destroyed the Yuuzhan Vong more or less on his own - meaning: killing thousands of them, slaying their strongest warriors within seconds etc. ?

The Empire was defeated - at least by Luke Skywalker
The Yuuzhan Vong were defeated - again Luke Skywalker

And the Battle of Endor. Yes...who would have destroyed the second Death Star ? All the Alliance leaders that would have been killed by the first Death Star on Yavin 4 ?

In a logical way, this whole thread is quite well...undefined. Does "No Jedi / Sith" mean "no force users" ?

There would be:
No (sucessful) Alliance without Luke Skywalker
No Empire without Sidious / Palpatine (and thereby no Alliance)
No CIS withous Sidious / Palpatine and Dooku
No Republic Army without Sidious (and no Jedi)
No Infinite Empire without Rakatan
No Yuuzhan Vong without Onimi

So that would be a senseless discussion. If it's just about troop size and firepower the Empire controls more planets, has more resources (normal and human ones) and more troops, ships and firepower than the rest. Not to mention all that superweapons.

Fishy
Originally posted by Emperor Revan
I don't think all of the Rakatans are Force users. After all, they said they needed Revan's help to get into the temple and destroy the Star Forge because they couldn't go in because they can't use the Force. Or somesuch. I believe they had some other way of controlling the Star Forge but their willpower was too weak and it eventually destroyed them.

Anywho, with no Force users I also think it's the Vong with the Empire at a close second.

They did have force users, it just died out in their species. There are a bunch of scientists there trying to find a way to implant it in them again just so that they can destroy the Star Forge. They used to all control the force then their connection weakened, they couldn't control the Star Forge ships became worth a lot more the plague started to spread becuase they couldn't stop it with the force and before you knew it there was a full out war in the Rakatan Empire and it collapsed into itself. Without a powerful leader to own the Star Forge they had to fight wars in order to find out who would lead, and without the Star Forge they couldn't rebuild their ships. The collapse of the Infinite Empire happened only because they lost their connection to the force.

And it is literally said that once all of them controlled the force. So that would mean billions of force users. Owning everything.

Darth_Frobo
Infinite empire the name infinite pretty much sums up why, because that's how big the army pretty much was, it made tens of thousands of ships and droids, with jedi Revan being the tactical genius he is with bastilla's battle meditation owns it,

pure numbers is between infinite empire and empire, technology goes to the empire,

tactics go to infinite empire if we include revan

and training goes to the republic. w

what wikipedia says opinion wise doesn't mean much, it's also said many other false opinions and it's opinions aren't cannon only the facts displayed there. Sidious regime never accomplished anything except getting it's ass kicked by a force with inferior technology at a third of it's size, Revans army had the galaxy ripe for the picking it completely decimated the republic fleet (which I would compare to the alliance) and crushed everything, their forces were so numerous they could blot out a sun the only reason they didn't conquer the galaxy is that when revan left it turned on itself without a leader otherwise it owned the galaxy.

Darth_Frobo
Vong with no jedi otherwise all I can say is one billion force users.

General Zodiac
Originally posted by Darth_Frobo
Infinite empire the name infinite pretty much sums up why, because that's how big the army pretty much was, it made tens of thousands of ships and droids, with jedi Revan being the tactical genius he is with bastilla's battle meditation owns it,

pure numbers is between infinite empire and empire, technology goes to the empire,

tactics go to infinite empire if we include revan

and training goes to the republic. w

what wikipedia says opinion wise doesn't mean much, it's also said many other false opinions and it's opinions aren't cannon only the facts displayed there. Sidious regime never accomplished anything except getting it's ass kicked by a force with inferior technology at a third of it's size, Revans army had the galaxy ripe for the picking it completely decimated the republic fleet (which I would compare to the alliance) and crushed everything, their forces were so numerous they could blot out a sun the only reason they didn't conquer the galaxy is that when revan left it turned on itself without a leader otherwise it owned the galaxy.

To begin with they got that because of the Star Forge...there isn't one in this battle neither is the DeathStar. The Empire has the greatest fleet in the galaxy. That's why they could control the galaxy with the senate.

Emperor Revan
Originally posted by Darth_Frobo
Infinite empire the name infinite pretty much sums up why, because that's how big the army pretty much was, it made tens of thousands of ships and droids, with jedi Revan being the tactical genius he is with bastilla's battle meditation owns it,

pure numbers is between infinite empire and empire, technology goes to the empire,

tactics go to infinite empire if we include revan

and training goes to the republic. w

what wikipedia says opinion wise doesn't mean much, it's also said many other false opinions and it's opinions aren't cannon only the facts displayed there. Sidious regime never accomplished anything except getting it's ass kicked by a force with inferior technology at a third of it's size, Revans army had the galaxy ripe for the picking it completely decimated the republic fleet (which I would compare to the alliance) and crushed everything, their forces were so numerous they could blot out a sun the only reason they didn't conquer the galaxy is that when revan left it turned on itself without a leader otherwise it owned the galaxy.

Actually the Infinite Empire is not Revan's empire, it existed some 20,000 years before Revan or so. Revan's sith Empire seems to be called Revan's Sith Empire. And I agree, if there were Force users than Revan's Sith Empire would win, but without Force users it's the Yuuzhan Vong.

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