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ok how does this play.

been done miked

Damn

Manhattan takes this

saw surfer isnt a pre cog. so manhattan would know what to do days before surfer got there.


w/o the pre cog it would be a great fight. then the winner is anyones guess


im leaning towards the doc tho.

Doc all the way, he exist in all times simultaneously, he already knows the outcome and so do I.

From Watchmen

P.s dont post any watchmen spoilers, im not done reading it

No superspeed for surfer btw, i dont think Manhattan moves that fast
Unless he does then its okay

Done already

oh

Sounds good to me...dicuss!

Silver Surfer

Dr. manhattan seem superior to me...and we really dont kno his limits so it hard to judge how powerful he really is

Dr. Manhattan

Surfer based on feats.

manhattan

Surfer.

surfer

Hum, probably Surfer

Does Surfer have regeneration feats like DM? How would he kill him if total atomic dispersion doesn't work?

Originally posted by DigiMark007
Does Surfer have regeneration feats like DM? How would he kill him if total atomic dispersion doesn't work?
What kind of regeneration feats does Manhattan have?

I don't durability is really questionable on Surfer's part.

Originally posted by Knowsbleed33
Surfer based on feats.
Dr. Manhattan based on powerset and common sense.

I always got the impression Dr. M was more powerful, but the Surfer is more skilled using his powers. So, the Surfer would get the best of any fight until Dr. M caught up in skill. Ie, I would imagine that Dr. M would keep coming back until the Surfer could no longer dispatch him.

Just a guess.

dr. manhatten is invincible read watchmen u ***** but SS is still extremely powerful

dr manhattan to me seems like a galactus type character

but then again i know very little about him

Originally posted by Mindship
I always got the impression Dr. M was more powerful, but the Surfer is more skilled using his powers. So, the Surfer would get the best of any fight until Dr. M caught up in skill. Ie, I would imagine that Dr. M would keep coming back until the Surfer could no longer dispatch him.

Just a guess.

dr manhatten

Originally posted by Mindship
I always got the impression Dr. M was more powerful, but the Surfer is more skilled using his powers. So, the Surfer would get the best of any fight until Dr. M caught up in skill. Ie, I would imagine that Dr. M would keep coming back until the Surfer could no longer dispatch him.

Just a guess.

My thought too. Surfer wouldn't be able to kill him, and he'd keep reforming until he learned to cope with Surfer, since he's never faced such a challenge.

Originally posted by fredstawill
dr. manhatten is invincible read watchmen u ***** but SS is still extremely powerful

No need for insults. Not reading a story arc isn't license to call a person names. See that it doesn't continue.

Dr. Manhattan.
He seemed to be able to do anything he wanted.Anytyhing...
Surfer although he is one of the most powerful Marvel cosmic characters (normal type-not Galactus level and stuff) cannot claim that.

Originally posted by occultdestroyer
Dr. Manhattan based on powerset and common sense. Except for the fact that essentially Surfer has DM's powerset to begin with, has much better feats using that powerset as well.

There is nothing DM did that Surfer has not done himself or on a grander better scale.

Also the only reason DM wasn't beaten in the Watchmen was because he was a nonphysical body character that can pull himself back together. It had nothing to do with him being immortal. He never had to deal with telepathy, nor did he have to deal with other types of assault on his character besides physical.


Surfer can and has attacked these other aspects of beings before.

Originally posted by comicfan11
Dr. Manhattan.
He seemed to be able to do anything he wanted.Anytyhing...
Surfer although he is one of the most powerful Marvel cosmic characters (normal type-not Galactus level and stuff) cannot claim that. Then again he exists in Universe where there are people as pwoerful or stronger than him.

The only other characters for DM to compare with were normal humans of course he will seem like he can do anything. Sersi, Magneto, and Storm would all appear like they could do anything in the same scenario.

Originally posted by Newjak
Then again he exists in Universe where there are people as pwoerful or stronger than him.

The only other characters for DM to compare with were normal humans of course he will seem like he can do anything. Sersi, Magneto, and Storm would all appear like they could do anything in the same scenario.

Except Sersi Magneto and Storm doesn't have his powerset and cannot do his feats like creating copies of himself,creating a whole building from sand,growing in size or being dispersed atomically and being able to survive.

I agree that SS has many abilities but some of these feats seem to much even for the Surfer.

Originally posted by comicfan11
Except Sersi Magneto and Storm doesn't have his powerset and cannot do his feats like creating copies of himself,creating a whole building from sand,growing in size or being dispersed atomically and being able to survive.

I agree that SS has many abilities but some of these feats seem to much even for the Surfer.
Surfer has done all those feats except being atomically disperesed and reforming..But I don't but it passed him IMO>

Originally posted by comicfan11
Except Sersi Magneto and Storm doesn't have his powerset and cannot do his feats like creating copies of himself,creating a whole building from sand,growing in size or being dispersed atomically and being able to survive.

I agree that SS has many abilities but some of these feats seem to much even for the Surfer. Sersi can create whole buildings from sand.

Magento can create whole buildings from metal. Storm I will give you that one.

As to making copies of himself and being dispersed. There are a number of low level characters that have done those things. So it isn't like DM is pulling god-like abilities when he does them.

Originally posted by Priest
Surfer has done all those feats except being atomically disperesed and reforming..But I don't but it passed him IMO>

I honestly didn't know that.
Scans would be appreciated but anyway in that case yeah SS might take it.
Though to be honest I don't believe that if he was atomically dispersed he would survive.
But at least these feats put him on Dr's level and it's a fight.

Originally posted by Newjak
Except for the fact that essentially Surfer has DM's powerset to begin with, has much better feats using that powerset as well.

There is nothing DM did that Surfer has not done himself or on a grander better scale.

Also the only reason DM wasn't beaten in the Watchmen was because he was a nonphysical body character that can pull himself back together. It had nothing to do with him being immortal. He never had to deal with telepathy, nor did he have to deal with other types of assault on his character besides physical.


Surfer can and has attacked these other aspects of beings before. Bottom of the page.

Originally posted by comicfan11
I honestly didn't know that.
Scans would be appreciated but anyway in that case yeah SS might take it.
Though to be honest I don't believe that if he was atomically dispersed he would survive.
But at least these feats put him on Dr's level and it's a fight. With the exception of you know Surfer being more powerful feat wise then anything DM did or was implied that he could do.

Originally posted by Newjak
Sersi can create whole buildings from sand.

Magento can create whole buildings from metal. Storm I will give you that one.

As to making copies of himself and being dispersed. There are a number of low level characters that have done those things. So it isn't like DM is pulling god-like abilities when he does them.

Yeah but the thing is that Dr can do all those things not some of them.
Plus as for the building thing he didn't just create the building he changed the atoms from sand to different materials if I recall correctly.

But another poster said that the SS has done some of these feats (except the atomic dispersion stuff) so yeah I believe that it would be more of a fight now.

Originally posted by Newjak
With the exception of you know Surfer being more powerful feat wise then anything DM did or was implied that he could do.

I know that SS has more feats (Watchmen was only 12 issues) but you are wrong on the other thing.
DM was implied to reaching godhood or something like that at some point in the series.
I think it was stated he had no limits.

Originally posted by comicfan11
Yeah but the thing is that Dr can do all those things not some of them.
Plus as for the building thing he didn't just create the building he changed the atoms from sand to different materials if I recall correctly.

But another poster said that the SS has done some of these feats (except the atomic dispersion stuff) so yeah I believe that it would be more of a fight now. Sersi could change the sand into glass ie cause she is a matter transmuter herself.

And I wasn't doing it to showcase they had all his powers. I was doing it to showcase they each have demonstrated his shown power level.

It doesn't matter if you have every power in the book if you have it at such low levels then you are not one someone else's power level.


Originally posted by comicfan11
I know that SS has more feats (Watchmen was only 12 issues) but you are wrong on the other thing.
DM was implied to reaching godhood or something like that at some point in the series.
I think it was stated he had no limits. No I'm not.

Re-read the book. Along with the same populace that glorified him as limitless also stated he had very limited abilities to do what they needed.

It was mentioned in the book that had a nuclear war actually started it was either, he would only be able to obliterate 80% of Russia or stop 80% of their nuclear arsenal. Either way the final outcome was still that America got wiped out even with DM's power.

Now let's compare that little tidbit with something that SS recently did.

Galactus was devouring a planet. The people of that planet were trying as hard as they could to get their ENTIRE population off of that planet. Nova Richard Rider was even helping them. Then the sad realization came that they would need hours to do it and they had something like under an hour left.

So Nova went and tried to plead with SS to get Galactus to hold of destroying the planet for just a few hours.

You know what SS did instead. He literally re-calibrated all of the planet's ships all scattered across different parts of the planet so that they could get out of the planet. He did all of that in the span it took him to blink.

That is the difference in power levels right there clearly defined. Surfer is a planet mover. He can destroy and effect entire planets and everything on them. In the blink of an eye without straining.

Even at his implied power level DM can not even stop a country of destroying another one.

Originally posted by Newjak
Sersi could change the sand into glass ie cause she is a matter transmuter herself.

And I wasn't doing it to showcase they had all his powers. I was doing it to showcase they each have demonstrated his shown power level.

It doesn't matter if you have every power in the book if you have it at such low levels then you are not one someone else's power level.


No I'm not.

Re-read the book. Along with the same populace that glorified him as limitless also stated he had very limited abilities to do what they needed.

It was mentioned in the book that had a nuclear war actually started it was either, he would only be able to obliterate 80% of Russia or stop 80% of their nuclear arsenal. Either way the final outcome was still that America got wiped out even with DM's power.

Now let's compare that little tidbit with something that SS recently did.

Galactus was devouring a planet. The people of that planet were trying as hard as they could to get their ENTIRE population off of that planet. Nova Richard Rider was even helping them. Then the sad realization came that they would need hours to do it and they had something like under an hour left.

So Nova went and tried to plead with SS to get Galactus to hold of destroying the planet for just a few hours.

You know what SS did instead. He literally re-calibrated all of the planet's ships all scattered across different parts of the planet so that they could get out of the planet. He did all of that in the span it took him to blink.

That is the difference in power levels right there clearly defined. Surfer is a planet mover. He can destroy and effect entire planets and everything on them. In the blink of an eye without straining.

Even at his implied power level DM can not even stop a country of destroying another one.

I don't have the books with me so I can't read them now.
But as I remember this was a hypothesis made from some others concerning DM's powers and not actual fact.
But the feat you mentioned from SS is very impressive.

Originally posted by DigiMark007
Does Surfer have regeneration feats like DM? How would he kill him if total atomic dispersion doesn't work? Hmm. I haven't read Watchmen in a while. I really should. How long did it take for Dr. Manhattan to reintegrate his form? If it was more than 10 seconds, that'd be a knockout, right? And while I could believe Dr. Manhattan could eventually escape being banished into places such as the Negative Zone, has he travelled through time? If not, then that's another way for Surfer to win. Frankly, if there is anybody that could beat Dr. Manhattan, it'd be Silver Surfer.

Silver Surfer contacted the whole world and gave them peace a few times. I think he could have dealt with-

Hmmm. Although it's hard to believe... some people haven't read Watchmen, and I don't want to give away any plot points. Anyway, I think Surfer could have dealt with what happened in the final issue. Whoever is reading this thread and hasn't read Watchmen, go do yourself a favor and buy it, download it, or just spend a few hours in Barnes & Noble and read it off the stand. One of the greatest pieces of modern literature ever.

I still think Surfer. Dr. Manhattan always struck me as a young, naive and more withdrawn Earth-bound Surfer from the ole days.

couldn't Surfer coat DM's atoms in some force or other which would permanently prevent their realignment?

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Hmm. I haven't read Watchmen in a while. I really should. How long did it take for Dr. Manhattan to reintegrate his form? If it was more than 10 seconds, that'd be a knockout, right? And while I could believe Dr. Manhattan could eventually escape being banished into places such as the Negative Zone, has he travelled through time? If not, then that's another way for Surfer to win. Frankly, if there is anybody that could beat Dr. Manhattan, it'd be Silver Surfer.

Silver Surfer contacted the whole world and gave them peace a few times. I think he could have dealt with-

Hmmm. Although it's hard to believe... some people haven't read Watchmen, and I don't want to give away any plot points. Anyway, I think Surfer could have dealt with what happened in the final issue. Whoever is reading this thread and hasn't read Watchmen, go do yourself a favor and buy it, download it, or just spend a few hours in Barnes & Noble and read it off the stand. One of the greatest pieces of modern literature ever.

I still think Surfer. Dr. Manhattan always struck me as a young, naive and more withdrawn Earth-bound Surfer from the ole days.

im not positive but i believe DM has control over space and time

Originally posted by janus77
couldn't Surfer coat DM's atoms in some force or other which would permanently prevent their realignment?

dont believe that would work DM has energy and matter manipulation also

The difference between DM and SS is that I actually feel like DM is godlike by his actions. With SS he is written all over the place and you can't get a grasp on his abilities. If anybody can give me a firm definition of SS abilities they are lieing to themselves. SS suffers from the superman dillema. He is and undefined hero. This allows writers to feel comfortable, no matter how obsurd they make his all around showings seem.

It's like superman and flash with light speed. You figure if flash and superman have a feat of moving faster than the speed of thought, then how do u go about writing that character believably ever again? Well they are in luck because superman readers must have the greatest suspension of belief.

One last thing. Lets not forget that DM can create life, I can't remember if SS can. The SS is just like superman 90% of the time. He fires energy projectiles and flies thats it 90% of the time. He's like a brick with powers that for some reason he can't use in battle.

Watchmen is one of the last great comics in my eyes. It had heroes with defined abilities. Comics now are at a point where everybody is bordering on godlike and you can never get a clear answer on who is superior.

Also yes DM has space time control. Also in the marvel universe everybody and his dog can travel time. If you can tell me the last thing time traveling in the MU solved of importance i'll eat a baby. Doesn't surfer travel to an alternate timeline anyways? From what i gather you can't go back and change your timeline in the MU. Maybe i'm wrong.

Good god.

Are you people serious?

Originally posted by razor4life
SS suffers from the superman dillema. With SS it's worse, I think. Superman, at least, has a closed powerset--he can do a billion and one things with it--but one can still sum it up rather succinctly, understand its limits, etc, unlike the open powerset of the Surfer, which seems much more writer-determined...one of the few things I don't like about the character.

Originally posted by Newjak
Then again he exists in Universe where there are people as pwoerful or stronger than him.

The only other characters for DM to compare with were normal humans of course he will seem like he can do anything. Sersi, Magneto, and Storm would all appear like they could do anything in the same scenario.

I find it hard to believe they'd pull themselves together from stray atoms or use high level matter manip. (except Sersi, of course).

Surfer wouldn't be able to kill him. The best he could hope for is an incapacitation. And did you really make the argument that telepathy might work? That would be covered in the first half of the "common sense and power set" mentioned earlier for DM.

Originally posted by KK the Great
Good god.

Are you people serious?

We always are.

Comics are serious business.

I like Dr. Manhattan a lot. However, I would say SS wins. He can do almost everything Manhattan can and has a hell of a lot more experience at it, plus he used to fighting beings on his level or greater.

Originally posted by DigiMark007
I find it hard to believe they'd pull themselves together from stray atoms or use high level matter manip. (except Sersi, of course).

Surfer wouldn't be able to kill him. The best he could hope for is an incapacitation. And did you really make the argument that telepathy might work? That would be covered in the first half of the "common sense and power set" mentioned earlier for DM.

You weren't around once again my goal with those names wasn't replicate DM's powerset it was to replicate what power level DM has shown.

With the exception of Sersi who could for the most part replicate all of DM's powerset.

And why couldn't Surfer kill him. You make it sound like DM had no weaknesses or that those limits were sufficiently tested. You also make it sound like Surfer hasn't met and fought with energy based beings before.

Surfer has a number of tricks that Doc never got tested on.

Power Negation,

Mental Attacks,

Power Absorbtion
etc
etc

As I recall correctly DM is a consciousness that was able to reform a body around itself to effect the world. Why couldn't Surfer attack him at that level.


As to whether or not telepathy could effect him. You'd think gods, cosmic entities without bodies, and magical beings would be immune to telepathy not always the case. Powerset and common don't always apply in comics. Why should we assume the good Doc gets a better benefit of a doubt then the likes of Green Lanterns and Silver Surfer.

Dr. Manhatten would destroy the Surfer. A better fight would be Galactus, not Norrin.

The guy could read the future (hence knowing what the Surfer would do). At the end of the Watchmen he stated that he was leaving and out of curiousity, he was going to create his own world and own lifeforms to inhabit it. Thats a tad more serious than the Surfer in my opinion.

Surfer still. Surfer has cosmic awareness.

Originally posted by Newjak
And why couldn't Surfer kill him. You make it sound like DM had no weaknesses or that those limits were sufficiently tested. You also make it sound like Surfer hasn't met and fought with energy based beings before.

DM has no weaknesses



I'm pretty sure none of them would work.

Hmmm we have not seen enough of Dr. Manhattan to say for sure but even so the good Doctor has not shown the ability to defeat Norin......

We do not have a lot to go on.....so based on feats I will give it to Silver Surfer.....

Originally posted by occultdestroyer
DM has no weaknesses



I'm pretty sure none of them would work. You know except for Tachyons which seemed to mess him up something fierce.


And pretty sure those things won't work isn't enough I'm afraid.

Cause those are things Surfer has used to beat people like DM before.

Originally posted by occultdestroyer
DM has no weaknesses



I'm pretty sure none of them would work.

Manhattan hasn't faced anyone else with powers, so we don't know if he has a weakness or not. And like Newjack said, he was vulnerable to Tachyons.

Could these arguments be more sophomoric?

"Surfer has moar of teh feets!"

Of course he does. Manhattan is from a twelve issue mini-series that couldn't have been less about "feats" if it tried, and the other is a forty year old superhero who is almost entirely about feats.

Well we are in a forum that determine the winner and loser of a match primarily though feats.

Originally posted by id369
Well we are in a forum that determine the winner and loser of a match primarily though feats.

A large part of why this place tends to be such a joke.

Originally posted by id369
Then this and many other fictional versus forums are nothing more then a joke.
They are.

Originally posted by Val-E-Doosh
They are.

http://www.fasthack.com/images/weblog/2007/12/dk-serious-poster.jpg

Originally posted by id369
Then this and many other fictional versus forums are nothing more then a joke.

Sure, many of them are.

You could strive, however, to impart at least a semblance of nuance to your thinking.

Originally posted by id369
http://www.fasthack.com/images/weblog/2007/12/dk-serious-poster.jpg
I'm the least serious guy here. I come here soley to make fun of others.

And I come here, to fully submerge myself into nerd rage. Its more entertaining then watching MTV. But how else, are members suppose to wage the winner and loser over said characters other then comparing feats?

Originally posted by id369
And I come here, to fully submerge myself into nerd rage. Its more entertaining then watching MTV. But how else, are members suppose to wage the winner and loser over said characters other then comparing feats?
Do what everyone else does.

Pick the character you like more.

Originally posted by DigiMark007
http://images.starcraftmazter.net/4chan/animals/internet-serious-business-cat.jpg

^ Reported for spam...

durhulk

















... not really. But only because I'm too lazy to report you for posting that worthless drivel.

no my favorit charcter lifted teh biger rock!

The gentleman asked me to describe how one might possibly judge a battle between comic characters without the simple-minded tradition of comparing feats.

The posted list describes several tenets of a more nuanced method of analysis.

Originally posted by KK the Great
The gentleman asked me to describe how one might possibly judge a battle between comic characters without the simple-minded tradition of comparing feats.

The posted list describes several tenets of a more nuanced method of analysis. So comparing feats is simple minded?

And this method is more complicated but is much better eh?

Funny I thought you were mocking kmc as a whole. Who takes this kk and how?

Enlighten us all.

Originally posted by KK the Great
The gentleman asked me to describe how one might possibly judge a battle between comic characters without the simple-minded tradition of comparing feats.

The posted list describes several tenets of a more nuanced method of analysis.

It's not simple-minded if it's consistently the most reliable method, is canon (as opposed to our logic, which may be sound but isn't canon), and allows us to pool the entirety of a character into an approximate assessment of their power. ABC logic is terrible, btw. Go to my profile and search my recent threads....a similarly titled thread will give you all the evidence anyone would ever need that ABC logic is a last resort, not a best option.

Power levels are largely subjective, so a strictly objective basis is impossible. Writing long-winded speeches might break down various aspects of analysis, but it makes it no less subjective, thus defeating the purpose.

Also, most of the post didn't even address the central concern. Beyond the flawed ABC proposal, it was merely breaking down various definitions (brunt force vs. piercing damage, writer intentions, etc.) that do nothing to bringing us closer to an actual method of analysis. Talking about the specifics of character power doesn't make one qualified to speak about difference between characters.

Many of your points, however, actually are taken into account when using feats. For how are we to determine how much a writer's need for story affects a character if we don't go to the stories and feats themselves? Or what kind of damage a character is resistent to? Or when PIS intervenes and can negate a showing? You disprove your own point, because to analyze using your method, one can only use feats.

Originally posted by quanchi112
So comparing feats is simple minded?

I can scarcely think of anything more so.

Originally posted by DigiMark007
It's not simple-minded if it's consistently the most reliable method,

But it isn't the most consistent.

If I were to make a list of consistently reliable tools for judging the power relationship between characters, feats would go right at the bottom.

Originally posted by KK the Great
I can scarcely think of anything more so. So you quoted my first line and ignored the rest.


And you call kmc simpleminded and refuse to answer my question with regards to this debate?

Originally posted by quanchi112
So you quoted my first line and ignored the rest.

In my defense, you're quanchi.

Originally posted by KK the Great
In my defense, you're quanchi. So you feel you can avoid questions,talk down to an entire forum,and troll because I am Quanchi?



Really?

Originally posted by KK the Great
In my defense, you're quanchi.

pwned

Originally posted by KK the Great
Good god.

Are you people serious?
Originally posted by KK the Great
Could these arguments be more sophomoric?

"Surfer has moar of teh feets!"

Of course he does. Manhattan is from a twelve issue mini-series that couldn't have been less about "feats" if it tried, and the other is a forty year old superhero who is almost entirely about feats.
Originally posted by KK the Great
Sure, many of them are.

You could strive, however, to impart at least a semblance of nuance to your thinking.
Originally posted by KK the Great
But it isn't the most consistent.

If I were to make a list of consistently reliable tools for judging the power relationship between characters, feats would go right at the bottom.

LOL at you for sermonizing on a comic book versus forum so that you can get a high off of belittling the processes and concepts of debate on kmc. Save yourself the trouble of affecting an air of superiority and debate in the manner and system that you feel most effective, instead of coming in here and posting the 10 commandments of debating Superman vs. Darkwing Duck. Really, how many posts do you need in this thread with all your diminutive comments?

I find it comical that you need to come into a Dr. Manhattan vs. Silver Surfer internet discussion in order draw solace from the assumption that no one other than yourself knows what they're talking about.

Originally posted by Tenebrous
LOL at you for sermonizing on a comic book versus forum so that you can get a high off of belittling the processes and concepts of debate on kmc. Save yourself the trouble of affecting an air of superiority and debate in the manner and system that you feel most effective, instead of coming in here and posting the 10 commandments of debating Superman vs. Darkwing Duck. Really, how many posts do you need in this thread with all your diminutive comments?

I find it comical that you need to come into a Dr. Manhattan vs. Silver Surfer internet discussion in order draw solace from the assumption that no one other than yourself knows what they're talking about.

Originally posted by Tenebrous
LOL at you for sermonizing on a comic book versus forum so that you can get a high off of belittling the processes and concepts of debate on kmc. Save yourself the trouble of affecting an air of superiority and debate in the manner and system that you feel most effective, instead of coming in here and posting the 10 commandments of debating Superman vs. Darkwing Duck. Really, how many posts do you need in this thread with all your diminutive comments?

I find it comical that you need to come into a Dr. Manhattan vs. Silver Surfer internet discussion in order draw solace from the assumption that no one other than yourself knows what they're talking about.

Hmm... geez, I dunno, maybe I should post a thread about Superman VS Darkwing Duck.
dursom

Originally posted by Tenebrous
LOL at you for sermonizing on a comic book versus forum so that you can get a high off of belittling the processes and concepts of debate on kmc. Save yourself the trouble of affecting an air of superiority and debate in the manner and system that you feel most effective, instead of coming in here and posting the 10 commandments of debating Superman vs. Darkwing Duck. Really, how many posts do you need in this thread with all your diminutive comments?

I find it comical that you need to come into a Dr. Manhattan vs. Silver Surfer internet discussion in order draw solace from the assumption that no one other than yourself knows what they're talking about.

Well said. Comparing characters by power-sets is even more simple minded IMO. If we did that the Hulk would always lose to the Juggernaut in these debates. Not to mention almost no character is written to their fullest potential.

I would like to point out KK that none of the rules you actually posted help DM in any sort of way explain why he could beat Surfer.

If more importance should be placed on direct fights/contests then well DM has only ever fought humans. That doesn't really help him now does it.

As for ABC logic.

Well DM > Ozymandis > Nite Owl

therefore DM > Nite Owl???????

Once again I fail to see where that gives him a win over Surfer.

Originally posted by KK the Great
Generally speaking, a writer's foremost priority in a comic is to entertain; to deliver a product that will entice readers to come back for more. As a result, fights will often not play out the way they arguably should on paper, because in many cases that would not lead to the most entertaining results
The gist. All else is corollary.

Originally posted by Val-E-Doosh
I'm the least serious guy here. I come here soley to make fun of others.

Reported for admitting to being a troll.

Originally posted by Val-E-Doosh
Do what everyone else does.

Pick the character you like more.

Reported for calling the posters on this forum biased.

Originally posted by Knowsbleed33
Well said. Comparing characters by power-sets is even more simple minded IMO.

Yeah.

Which is why I'm always, you know, criticizing KMC's standard practice of only debating powersets.

Originally posted by quanchi112
So you feel you can avoid questions,talk down to an entire forum,and troll because I am Quanchi?



Really?

Not at all.

I can talk down to an entire forum because that is the only way to talk to something which is beneath me.

I can safely ignore you because, let's face it, you've been given ample opportunity to demonstrate that you're someone worth taking seriously and have fallen well short of acceptable limits.

Originally posted by fredstawill
read watchmen

Never heard of it.

Originally posted by WrathfulDwarf
Never heard of it.

Never heard of the Watchmen Series? Seriously?

You should read it.......its a 12 Issue Series.......a Classic.....one of the best stories ever written......if you want to read something amazing read the Watchmen....

Originally posted by RageOfTheGods
Never heard of the Watchmen Series? Seriously?

You should read it.......its a 12 Issue Series.......a Classic.....one of the best stories ever written......if you want to read something amazing read the Watchmen....

I've never heard of it either.

Who wrote it ?

Originally posted by KK the Great
Not at all.

I can talk down to an entire forum because that is the only way to talk to something which is beneath me.

I can safely ignore you because, let's face it, you've been given ample opportunity to demonstrate that you're someone worth taking seriously and have fallen well short of acceptable limits.

Yes, because condescension works SO well when you're taking tidbits of a person's life and generalizing from it. No, you don't look foolish at all. And if this is all so beneath you, it begs the question of your intent in posting, not to mention the ass-whuppin' you've been getting the last page or so in regards to your logic.



Ignore him guys. He's a troll. Better just not to interact with him, because it will get nowhere.

Originally posted by Tenebrous
Save yourself the trouble of affecting an air of superiority and debate in the manner and system that you feel most effective, instead of coming in here and posting the 10 commandments of debating Superman vs. Darkwing Duck.

Originally posted by DigiMark007
Yes, because condescension works SO well when you're taking tidbits of a person's life and generalizing from it. No, you don't look foolish at all. And if this is all so beneath you, it begs the question of your intent in posting, not to mention the ass-whuppin' you've been getting the last page or so in regards to your logic.

Have you never heard of missionary work?

Surfer reduces him to atomic ash.

Originally posted by WrathfulDwarf
Who was the publisher? Never heard of them either!

All this is BS!

btw....where the HELL am I?
Stop trolling, hypocrite.
Go read The Watchmen before you start posting BS over this thread.

Don't comment if you know nothing about The Watchmen, kapish??

Originally posted by occultdestroyer
Stop trolling, hypocrite.
Go read The Watchmen before you start posting BS over this thread.

Don't comment if you know nothing about The Watchmen, kapish?? Heh...

Originally posted by occultdestroyer
Stop trolling, hypocrite.
Go read The Watchmen before you start posting BS over this thread.

Don't comment if you know nothing about The Watchmen, kapish??

Originally posted by occultdestroyer
Stop trolling, hypocrite.
Go read The Watchmen before you start posting BS over this thread.

Don't comment if you know nothing about The Watchmen, kapish??

They're being sarcastic. It's quite obvious. At least WD was, as a response to the earlier comment.

Also, you have no jurisdiction to tell people where and where not to post. It's a publicly open forum and they aren't trolling.

dr manhattan, he can create infinite clones of himself with total different thinking patterns, dr manhattan ver easy, he is about abstract level

Originally posted by cmack
dr manhattan, he can create infinite clones of himself with total different thinking patterns, dr manhattan ver easy, he is about abstract level ...

Originally posted by Mr. Slippyfist
... you doubt me on that?surfer loses hard, trust me young man

Originally posted by cmack
you doubt me on that?surfer loses hard, trust me young man Yes, and no, especially when you call Manhattan abstract level.

Originally posted by Mr. Slippyfist
Yes, and no, especially when you call Manhattan abstract level. at the end of the day dr. manhattan is way beyond silver surfer in every possible way, go look up what some of his capabilities are, because you obviously dont know what he can do

Originally posted by cmack
at the end of the day dr. manhattan is way beyond silver surfer in every possible way, go look up what some of his capabilities are, because you obviously dont know what he can do Humor me.

What has he done above Surfer level?

Originally posted by Mr. Slippyfist
Humor me.

What has he done above Surfer level?

Originally posted by DigiMark007
They're being sarcastic. It's quite obvious. At least WD was, as a response to the earlier comment.

Also, you have no jurisdiction to tell people where and where not to post. It's a publicly open forum and they aren't trolling.

Who the heck are you? And what are you doing here?

Do I know you?

Originally posted by occultdestroyer
Stop trolling, hypocrite.
Go read The Watchmen before you start posting BS over this thread.

Don't comment if you know nothing about The Watchmen, kapish?? dur

Originally posted by Mr. Slippyfist
Humor me.

What has he done above Surfer level?

Pleasured a woman with clones of his own body.

Originally posted by tkitna
Pleasured a woman with clones of his own body.

Isnt that beyonder level.

Originally posted by tkitna
Pleasured a woman with clones of his own body. Nothing beyond Multiple Man levels.

Originally posted by tkitna
Pleasured a woman with clones of his own body.
Yeah well Surfer pleasured every man, woman, and child on Earth simultaneously and didn't even need to use clones...

http://img337.imageshack.us/img337/7294/silversurfer199713317uh2.jpg
http://img411.imageshack.us/img411/143/silversurfer199713318ml1.jpg

Originally posted by darthgoober
Yeah well Surfer pleasured every man, woman, and child on Earth simultaneously and didn't even need to use clones...

http://img337.imageshack.us/img337/7294/silversurfer199713317uh2.jpg
http://img411.imageshack.us/img411/143/silversurfer199713318ml1.jpg

A bisexual pedophile... that sneaky bastard.

Surfer has way more impressive feats. Manhattan was a big fish in a small pond.

I would like to know, why members consider Dr. Manhattan closer to being a Universal Force (Galactus level), then a top tier (say a Herald).

Originally posted by darthgoober

http://img411.imageshack.us/img411/143/silversurfer199713318ml1.jpg
If only he'd thought of this back in FF#72...coulda avoided that whole nasty sonic shark business.

Eh. Live 'n' learn.

Can we please make a Dr Manhattan respect thread, this ignorance is to much to bare. Oh and Dr M destroys Surfer 10/10. Digi me and you should make a respect thread or me and whoever is interested.

Originally posted by sexyking
Can we please make a Dr Manhattan respect thread, this ignorance is to much to bare. Oh and Dr M destroys Surfer 10/10. Digi me and you should make a respect thread or me and whoever is interested. Yup make a respect thread. It'll be interesting to read the two or 3 posts max it would take to make it

Originally posted by sexyking
Can we please make a Dr Manhattan respect thread, this ignorance is to much to bare. Oh and Dr M destroys Surfer 10/10. Digi me and you should make a respect thread or me and whoever is interested.

I seriously want to know why Dr. Manhattan would destroy Silver Surfer. He seems to be the equivalent of New Sun or Solar (from the Gold Key era).

Originally posted by KK the Great
"Surfer has moar of teh feets!"

Of course he does. Manhattan is from a twelve issue mini-series that couldn't have been less about "feats" if it tried, and the other is a forty year old superhero who is almost entirely about feats.

I .. agree with this.

You have to find a reason to justify, why X character is greater then Y character. One way, is analyzing his abilities (data), the other is stacking what they have shown (feat).

So far none of the Pro-Dr. Manhattan have given any justification as to why he is superior. Can somebody point out, something that I missed, or have forgotten from the 12 issue series?

Originally posted by id369
You have to find a reason to justify, why X character is greater then Y character. One way, is analyzing his abilities (data), the other is stacking what they have shown (feat).

So far none of the Pro-Dr. Manhattan have given any justification as to why he is superior. Can somebody point out, something that I missed, or have forgotten from the 12 issue series?

Dr Manhattan was a half-desent matter manipulator. The only reason he's thought of as an "uber god" is that he was the only superhuman on the planet, where other "super"heroes were not higher than Nightwing level.

6 pages and still no reason was posted why Dr. Manhattan would win besides people wanting him to.

Originally posted by KK the Great
Not at all.

I can talk down to an entire forum because that is the only way to talk to something which is beneath me.

I can safely ignore you because, let's face it, you've been given ample opportunity to demonstrate that you're someone worth taking seriously and have fallen well short of acceptable limits. But you have done nothing to stand out on this forum other than try to look superior to kmc which you have failed at.

You also took one sentence from digimark and ignored the rest of his post. I really thought better of you(not much) before this display.

At least try to debate because flaming gets rather old very quickly. Wouldnt you agree?

Originally posted by Mindset
6 pages and still no reason was posted why Dr. Manhattan would win besides people wanting him to.

Exactly.

Originally posted by celestialdemon
Why agree with it? Someone like the Hunger has virtually no feats, but he would wipe the floor with Dr. Manhattan.

Read what he wrote again.

And try to understand it this time.

With that said, imo, Dr Manhattan shouldn't really be included in vs matches.

Originally posted by Mindship
If only he'd thought of this back in FF#72...coulda avoided that whole nasty sonic shark business.

Eh. Live 'n' learn.
You know it's interesting that you mention that. It's a little known fact that Surfer had another run in with the Sonic Shark missile and the results were a little different the second time around(which just goes to show the difference between a depowered Surfer who's caught off guard and one who's at full power and ready)...

http://img247.imageshack.us/img247/1161/webspinnerstalesofspidefv1.jpg
http://img372.imageshack.us/img372/7645/webspinnerstalesofspidekt2.jpg

Not that the Sonic Shark has any particular bearing on this fight, I've just been looking for a reason to post that since I came across it.

Originally posted by darthgoober
http://img247.imageshack.us/img247/1161/webspinnerstalesofspidefv1.jpg
http://img372.imageshack.us/img372/7645/webspinnerstalesofspidekt2.jpg

Rematch.
Game.
Priceless.

sigh, again, y is this being discussed? manhattan is a GOD and exists simultaneously in the future as well as the past, knowing the ultimate fate of everything. what can surfer do to even harm him?

surfer is not skyfather, dr manhattan is at least skyfather, dr manhattan was always reluctant to use his powers, if he went all out surfer is going down hard

Originally posted by leonheartmm
sigh, again, y is this being discussed? manhattan is a GOD and exists simultaneously in the future as well as the past, knowing the ultimate fate of everything. what can surfer do to even harm him? Thor is a GOD. Seriously worst argument ever.

Also DM wasn't an actual time Master he just had the unique ability to exist at anytime in his timeline. He had absolutely never demonstrated any power over time or any knowledge of time on anything he was not in contact with.

And at no point was it implied he knew the fate of everything. As he said before and I'll reiterate "We are all puppets I'm just a puppet that can see the strings."

Not to mention Ozymandis already messed with his supposed time based abilities anyway when he introduced Tachyons into the equation.

As to what Surfer can do to harm him.

Surfer has a vast amount of abilities that DM has never encountered before. Such as

Power Absorbtion

Power Negation

Mental attacks

Power Disruption

Plus level of energy control DM has never faced before.

Originally posted by cmack
surfer is not skyfather, dr manhattan is at least skyfather, dr manhattan was always reluctant to use his powers, if he went all out surfer is going down hard Your argument would be true if it weren't for the fact DM is not a skyfather level being.

Nor is there any evidence to support him as such.

Originally posted by Newjak
Your argument would be true if it weren't for the fact DM is not a skyfather level being.

Nor is there any evidence to support him as such.

Originally posted by Newjak
Your argument would be true if it weren't for the fact DM is not a skyfather level being.

Nor is there any evidence to support him as such. tisk tisk go check were he is listed before you talk out your hindquarters

Originally posted by celestialdemon
Manhattan hasn't faced anyone else with powers, so we don't know if he has a weakness or not. And like Newjack said, he was vulnerable to Tachyons.


Go read Watchmen.

Originally posted by occultdestroyer


Go read Watchmen.

I own it and have read it several times.

You still have yet to prove anything.

Originally posted by Newjak
Thor is a GOD. Seriously worst argument ever.

Also DM wasn't an actual time Master he just had the unique ability to exist at anytime in his timeline. He had absolutely never demonstrated any power over time or any knowledge of time on anything he was not in contact with.

And at no point was it implied he knew the fate of everything. As he said before and I'll reiterate "We are all puppets I'm just a puppet that can see the strings."

Not to mention Ozymandis already messed with his supposed time based abilities anyway when he introduced Tachyons into the equation.

As to what Surfer can do to harm him.

Surfer has a vast amount of abilities that DM has never encountered before. Such as

Power Absorbtion

Power Negation

Mental attacks

Power Disruption

Plus level of energy control DM has never faced before.

Originally posted by cmack
tisk tisk go check were he is listed before you talk out your hindquarters Where?

The comic book tiers thread? The one that stops before Skyfather? So even if I did go look it wouldn't say he is Skyfather level cause there is no Skyfather level in it.

Originally posted by occultdestroyer
You know instead of laughing this is where you should actually debunk an argument by proving why the things I've said are false.

Newjak

lol "i can see the strings". he exists simltaneously in quantum time. he is AWARE of the future but unable to change it, or havent you been paying attention. he beleives in predetermination PRECICELY because his knowledge goes so far that he himself is aware of what HE is going to do in the future, becoming a prisoner of his own power. the tachyons make it harder for him to keep linked with other incarnations of himself in the future and the past, but it doesnt cut it altogether. also he can instantly teleport himself and other over galactis distance. infact HE doesnt even exist as a bosy, he constituted the body of his will, he has no actual physical or even energetic form at all, he is just existing with the universe. i wud easily put him at a godly{and NOT mythological skyfther type gods} level. surfer is nuthing to him. infact the entire actions of humanity past present and future seemed insignificant to him, hence his isolation and non reaction to events which seemed major on earth like the assasination of kennedy, which he knew wud happen but did nuthing to stop. also, his perfect clairvoyance wud give him complete knowledge of surfer and his powers.