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who do you think is a true Musical genius??

i would have to say that Glen Danzig for all his work in missfits and Danzig

ODB

Mike Patton.

Agree with Danzig
Agree with ODB
Dunno who Mike Patton is

actually i was kidding about ODB

and Mike Patton

Prince, Bob Marley, Dr. Dre...

...and RZA ... seriously

Originally posted by SlipknoT
Agree with Danzig
Agree with ODB
Dunno who Mike Patton is

shock he's a musical God. Was in Faith No More, Mr. Bungle, Fantomas, Tomahawk, and I know there's more I can't remember. Ask AC about Patton.

Originally posted by Lana
shock he's a musical God. Was in Faith No More, Mr. Bungle, Fantomas, Tomahawk, and I know there's more I can't remember. Ask AC about Patton. Oh...I'm not crazy about any of those...

Originally posted by D-Double
Prince, Bob Marley, Dr. Dre...

...and RZA ... seriously

ill say Madlib and Stoupe. i never heard anything bad from these two.

If there's anyone to ask about Patton, it's Victor Von Doom. Knows just about everything that's anything about the man.

I know my shit. But he's read all the interviews ever, everything.

I've read most though.

But yes, you get all those "___is God" phrases. If it were to apply to anyone, it'd be Patton.

Like him and his works or not, it's undeniable that he's possibly the greatest musical mind ever.

-AC

Danzig's far from genius, IMO. Far, far, far. What's the supporting arguement to this? He didn't do anything incredibly extraordinary?

My vote obviously lies with Jeff Hanneman. He and Kerry King basically created true thrash metal.

Originally posted by Cinemaddiction
Danzig's far from genius, IMO. Far, far, far. What's the supporting arguement to this? He didn't do anything incredibly extraordinary?

My vote obviously lies with Jeff Hanneman. He and Kerry King basically created true thrash metal.

Danzig is...... he has done like 6 differant styles of music and each one was great.


Zack wyld is better than kerry king :s



also Devin townsend is an alll time ****ing great.

Merely partaking in a genre could be done by anyone though.

Sure Danzig did it well, but that's all he did.

-AC

he wrote all the music and lyrics for Danzig & maisfits....
and danzig change genre a few times..

I'd go with Stevie Ray Vaughn, Muddy Waters, Beethovan, Bach, Prince(as much as I hate to say it) and Dre as people who pop into my mind as musical geniuses. There are many others, I don't have to like their music, but I can appreciate their accomplishments.

Then there are innovators like Neil Young (the godfather of grunge) and people who simple are amazing or uber talented in their particular genre like Bob Marley.

Lennon

Just curious, why do you hate to say Prince, Kharma?

Lennon gets overrated. Yes, I went there.

-AC

Hmm I dunno I guess Bach, Mozart, Beethoven, Hayden, Wagner....all those are pretty good...then neil Young is really good oh and I think Falco was a genius.....

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Just curious, why do you hate to say Prince, Kharma?
-AC

I am not a big fan of his music or his attitude. That's why I made that statement. The whole thing with the unpronouncablr symbol as a name and some of his other exploits leave me shaking my head.

That being said, just because I don't like him or alot of his material doesn't mean I can't recognize his influence, songwriting, musical and production talent.

Good stuff.

-AC

matt pike, playing those kind of riffs while singing, pure genius!

Elliott Smith (duh)
Jeff Buckley
the two-headed beast of Lennon-McCartney
Marvin Gaye
Miles Davis
Billy Cobham
Max Roach
Wynton Marsalis
Charlie Parker
Duke Ellington
Gerry Mulligan
Coltrane
Buddy Guy
damn, i can go on forever with jazz musicians

back to non-jazz...
robert johnson
Muddy Waters
Jimi Hendrix
Bob Dylan
Woody Guthrie
Leadbelly
Pete Seeger
Jack Elliott
Dave Van Ronk

now i'll let you kids download some of those and listen before i go on.

John Lennon
Paul Mcartney
George Harrison
Bob Dylan
David Bowie
Elton John
Mick Jagger
Keith Richards
Freddie Mercury
Brian May
Bono
Adam Clayton
Eric Clapton
Sting
Phil Collins
Prince
Michael Jackson
Bruce Springteen
Jimmy Hendrix
Chuck Berry
Elvis Presley
Stevie Wonder
Bob Marley
Jim Morrison

There are so many.

I wouldn't put Mick Jagger on my list just because he didn't do any of the arranging of his music, same with Michael Jackson. Sting and Phil Collins just don't look right next to Dylan, Clapton and Wonder.

Springsteen seems to me like an electrified version of Woody Guthrie's populism.

And Bono, while he has made some good music, he has also made some of the most god-awful power balladish sing-along songs ever.

PS: It's Jimi Hendrix.

*Ray Davies
*Mike Oldfield
*Stuart Adamson
*Dave Davies
*Freddie Mercury
*David Gilmour
*Steve Harley
*Stevie Nicks
*Mick Fleetwood
*Lindsey Buckingham

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v242/hot_knight/floyd_banner_FX.jpg

Ok, Jimi Hendrix now.

Mick Jagger is the co-writer of all the rolling stones songs with Keith Richards. And Mehawhile Michael Jackson doesnt writte any of his songs, he is a genious in another terms. A genius isnt only the one who write great songs, there can be genious dancing and siging , like Jackson.

Springteen , sting and Phil Collins are great singers and very complete musicians.

Bono kick ass. His voice an leadership are great.

Listing is simple and easy, explain why you think the people in your list are musical geniuses in your mind.

I don't think any singer is a genius, especially if he doesn't write his own tunes. MJ a genius for his singing and dancing.. C'mon..there's a huge difference between being talented and being a genius.

That term is used out of context, way, way, way too much.

Mick Jager has nothing to do with the music, he doesn't do much with the music; just because they get hte co-writing credit doesn't necessarily mean that they actually wrote the song (we all know that Lennon had nothing ot do with "Yesterday" or any of McCartney's songs on The White Album and vice versa).

Michael Jackson can sing very well - but that doesn't make him a genius. It makes him talented. Just because Carl Lewis has the God-given ability to run doesn't make him a 'track and field genius'.

Springsteen is very derivative. To me, a genius needs to come up with new things. That's just me, though. I like originality in music.

And Sting and Phil Collins both just annoy be on a personal level. Same with Bono.

But seriously...how can you put Bono and forgot about Robert Johnson...Phil Collins instead of Leadbelly...Mick Jagger instead of John Lee Hooker...

Page, Iommi, Slash, May

First of all, that of all is bullshit and crap because we are talking about personal tastes. Questioning the lists by another people only by personal tastes or because we dont like those artists is stupid. I could critize another people lists because i dont like many people of those lists, but they like them and they think that they are genious, fine. No problem at all.

Second point, to post that only the people who could writte great songs could be musical genious is pretty idiotic. What happens with another fields? Nobody could be genious playing guitar or bass or drums, or singing or dancing? That is retarded. There can be genious in his own fields. And a very, extremely talented person is a genious. Singing, dancing, writting songs, playing an instrument, etc.

And How do you know that Mick Jagger never wrote any of the rolling stones songs? Yeah, Lennon diddnt too much in yesterday or let it be or another paul songs, but he wrote another songs. If Jagger is acredited as co-writter, it means that he wrote some songs. The opposite is non sense.

And another thing, i cant post all the musical genious in music story because one only post is too little to that. I can only post some ones.

Originally posted by bakerboy

Second point, to post that only the people who could writte great songs could be musical genious is pretty idiotic. What happens with another fields? Nobody could be genious playing guitar or bass or drums, or singing or dancing? That is retarded. There can be genious in his own fields. And a very, extremely talented person is a genious. Singing, dancing, writting songs, playing an instrument, etc.

In my defense..



A very talented person, by definition, is NOT a genius in the traditional sense, because singing, isn't an intellectual or creative power by any means. That can't be measured, songwriting can, and POSSIBLY dancing, although that's just creativity, not so much ingenuity.

I'm a talented debater, but the only sense that I may be a genius in is selecting my words, which is an aptitude.

Lets see, i think that you are confusing the term "genious" with someone extremely intelligent or intelectual gifted, that is the general term, the general definition. But in music, like in cinema or another arts, that term is different, it have a very different concept in those fields. I considered people like robert de niro,marlon brando, al pacino or dustin hoffman genious. In their artistic fields. Genious acting. And they dont write scripts. In those arts there can be genious acting or singing or dancing or playing an instrument or directing a movie. The term of genious is very diferent in the arts fields, not only about intelectual abilities.

comparing movies to music is dumb; a true genius in music can write music, lyrics and singing is just a plus. Christina Aguilera is not a genius because she has a great voice.

In your acting analogy, de niro, brando, pacino, etc are multitalented - to say they can act well doesn't tell the whole story.

As for the co-writing thing, thell that to the many people who have their names on the credits just to get a higher share of royalties; do you really think that radiohead still has all its members write their music? No. Thom Yorke writes everything but they still have all their names on the music. It doesn't mean that they actually wrote it, and we all know that.

I think that singing is an ability, a talent, and a great one - but placed alone it doesn't justify 'genius' status. Like I said, would you consider Christina Aguilera a genius because of her singing ability? She has a great voice. What about all these boy bands? What differentiates them as performers from Michael Jackson? The music, and lyrics - which he doesn't have anything to do with.

Nope, i desagree. First, music and cinema are arts, they are related in one or another way. If you think in it, all the actors have singed in a movie in one or another moment, or almost all or many of them. And a singer in scene or in a music video is like an actor, he sings his song like playing a character , in one or another way. Its some kind of performance or acting. Their gestures, posses, etc. For that , they are related in one or another way.


And i think that there can be genious in their own fields. Singing or dancing or writting songs, etc.Not only the multitalented could be considered genious, there can be genious in one only field too.

so in your opinion all those with great voices are geniuses?

Shall we not turn it into a discussion of what 'genius' means?

If people just give reasons for their choices there is no need for the philosophical asides.

Some that I would cite are Hendrix, for being the most creative and innovative guitarist there has ever been; Prince, for mastering just about every aspect of music there is; Mike Patton, needs no explanation.

Agree with victor here. We are spend lots of pages discussing about the term genious and about personal concepts and tastes. I think that it doesnt make sense.

so you'd rather just have people list things? that's kinda boring.

Originally posted by Victor Von Doom
Shall we not turn it into a discussion of what 'genius' means?

If people just give reasons for their choices there is no need for the philosophical asides.

Yes, there is, because nobody knows the true definition and how it applies to music. Too many people are stepping over the line that seperates ingenuity and genius, because of it.

Besides that, hardly anyone's giving any reasoning that makes any sense, especially this "all actors have sung" and "musicians are actors" bullshit.

There's no need to break things down so literally, but we've resorted to it because nobody knows what their talking about essentially.

Originally posted by bakerboy
Lets see, i think that you are confusing the term "genious" with someone extremely intelligent or intelectual gifted, that is the general term, the general definition. But in music, like in cinema or another arts, that term is different, it have a very different concept in those fields. I considered people like robert de niro,marlon brando, al pacino or dustin hoffman genious. In their artistic fields. Genious acting. And they dont write scripts. In those arts there can be genious acting or singing or dancing or playing an instrument or directing a movie. The term of genious is very diferent in the arts fields, not only about intelectual abilities.

...and I think you're the one confusing the two. You think Michael Jackson is a "genius dancer". There is no such thing. He may be ingenuitive, but dancing isn't something that can be a work of genius, period.

Genius doesn't belong in singing, because it's just a talent, there's nothing in executing notes vocally that would stand to be a genius work.

Originally posted by bakerboy
Nope, i desagree. First, music and cinema are arts, they are related in one or another way. If you think in it, all the actors have singed in a movie in one or another moment, or almost all or many of them. And a singer in scene or in a music video is like an actor, he sings his song like playing a character , in one or another way. Its some kind of performance or acting. Their gestures, posses, etc. For that , they are related in one or another way.


And i think that there can be genious in their own fields. Singing or dancing or writting songs, etc.Not only the multitalented could be considered genious, there can be genious in one only field too.

WHAT? Every actor has sung once in their life in a movie, and singers are actors? You're way, way off on your backwards reasoning, man. Again, singers alone are NOT intellectual geniuses, which is what the term is rooted in, mental prowess.

Originally posted by Cinemaddiction
You think Michael Jackson is a "genius dancer". There is no such thing. He may be ingenuitive, but dancing isn't something that can be a work of genius, period.


yes there is. what about martha graham? what about baryshnikov? what about nureyev?

genious can be mental (graham) and physical (nureyev and baryshnikov)...and it applies to dance as it would to any art form.

I'm still going to disagree. Just because someone creates something doesn't make them a genius of their time or area of expertise, especially if it doesn't have a lasting effect, i.e. Michael Jackson and his moonwalk.

Originally posted by Cinemaddiction
Yes, there is, because nobody knows the true definition and how it applies to music. Too many people are stepping over the line that seperates ingenuity and genius, because of it.



Well then why not have a thread saying 'what is genius?'. I don't think the intention of the thread was for people to start bickering over the fact that what they consider to be the qualities of musical genius don't apply to someone else's choice.

If we are going to define the term, the only way we can do so is generally, which would be to display a great mastery of the art, or to have a great creative ability.

If a choice is then disputed, so be it.

Originally posted by Cinemaddiction
A very talented person, by definition, is NOT a genius in the traditional sense, because singing, isn't an intellectual or creative power by any means. That can't be measured, songwriting can, and POSSIBLY dancing, although that's just creativity, not so much ingenuity.



Sorry to be blunt but this paragraph is terrible. Not only is it unclear, but it's wrong in various ways.

How do you come to the conclusion that singing isn't a 'creative power' ?
I feel like commenting on some of the other assertions but this has just derailed the thread amazingly.

Let's just use an exceptional propensity for creativity or mastery of the art of music as the meaning of 'genius'. Anything else is unnecessary confusion.

Michael Jackson didn't invent the moonwalk. Look at one of hte Talking Heads' videos (I think itas And She Was, but I'm not sure). The breakdancers do this years ebfore MJ pulls it out at the Motwon 25 anniversary.

I know that it isnt a thread about what a genious is. But the things that Cinemadicction is postin are incredible false and non sense. Lets see:

What is the bullshit that i posted in my post? A singer is in certain way an actor, he does a kind of performance in the stage, performing a song. Only see his gestures. And any actor, or many of them has singed in one in another way, in a movie, musical, theatre play, or even in the acting school. So, what is the bullshit here?

Second, you are underrating the talent of dance and singing. Barisnikov and nureyev are genious in their fields, and they only dancing. Great singers could be considered genious in their field. Same with guitar playes, or drums, or bass, etc.

Originally posted by Victor Von Doom

How do you come to the conclusion that singing isn't a 'creative power' ?
I feel like commenting on some of the other assertions but this has just derailed the thread amazingly.

Let's just use an exceptional propensity for creativity or mastery of the art of music as the meaning of 'genius'. Anything else is unnecessary confusion.

Explain how someone can be a "genius singer". That's all I'm going to ask for.

Originally posted by bakerboy

What is the bullshit that i posted in my post? A singer is in certain way an actor, he does a kind of performance in the stage, performing a song. Only see his gestures. And any actor, or many of them has singed in one in another way, in a movie, musical, theatre play, or even in the acting school. So, what is the bullshit here?

Second, you are underrating the talent of dance and singing. Barisnikov and nureyev are genious in their fields, and they only dancing. Great singers could be considered genious in their field. Same with guitar playes, or drums, or bass, etc.

The bullshit is your nonsensical comparisons that don't arrive at any conclusion. IMO, there's no comparing singers and people that exude a PHYSICAL PROWESS in their craft. That's me, you don't like the way I think, tough shit, don't debate with me. This thread's a lost cause and I give up trying to make anyone understand.

Originally posted by Cinemaddiction
Explain how someone can be a "genius singer". That's all I'm going to ask for.


Sure.

Dictionary.com offers 5 definitions.

'Extraordinary intellectual and creative power' : self evident this one. A singer displaying these faculties. Having the ability to select the correct note, pitch, length, timbre, and so forth.

'A person of extraordinary intellect and talent': Intellect is covered above. Talent- I'm sure it doesn't need to be explained.

'A person who has an exceptionally high intelligence quotient, typically above 140': this one isn't really applicable here.

'A strong natural talent, aptitude, or inclination' : again, obvious. They are all obvious, aren't they? Anyway, last one.

'One who has such a talent or inclination': as above.

Originally posted by eggmayo
Page, Iommi, Slash, May

..."PREDICTABLE... yes that's the word of the year, all I see all I hear..."

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v242/hot_knight/dd_banner.jpg

Hell, their the four guitarists I find to be the most inspirational, I could give you a list a page long.