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I get sick of reading people slag off America on this forum. I am no George Bush fan but dammit, In England we share a set of values with many nations and we do have a "special" relationship with the US.
Yesterday I wondered if I had lost my brother, due to the events in London. I do not believe all Muslims are evil, I do not believe they should be persecuted. I do believe America is England's friend and I do believe that no global conspiracies caused the explosion yesterday outside of a mad group of fanatics wishing to attack the shared values of all decent people world wide. Do you believe the US and Britain are friends as I do?

No. The two countries aren't friends. The two governments aren't friends. Two citizens of both countries aren't friends.

They are two countries who have things that the other country want, and that it's beneficial for both to be allies. More so for America.

Can't afford to fight each other, no reason to fight each other. No particular reason to team up other than the reasons stated above.

Americans tend to appreciate England because of the difference from their own, newer, less heritaged country. The difference running parallel alongside the similarities is where the attraction and fascination lies. If we had everything the same, it wouldn't be any kind of special relationship.

I get sick of reading people claiming we're holding hands as countries when you should know full well that if we said "No" to America, we'd have no help from them if we ever needed it again.

To believe otherwise is naive.

-AC

Yeah, it's not like America was supplying the IRA the same explosives that bombed my home town or anything

Of course America have their own agenda, and we have ours. We don't need to fight, and we appreciate each others support, but we ain't necessarily looking out for each other as much as people believe.

I like England.

Red, I've missed your humor and I like the signature .

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
No. The two countries aren't friends. The two governments aren't friends. Two citizens of both countries aren't friends.

They are two countries who have things that the other country want, and that it's beneficial for both to be allies. More so for America.

Can't afford to fight each other, no reason to fight each other. No particular reason to team up other than the reasons stated above.

Americans tend to appreciate England because of the difference from their own, newer, less heritaged country. The difference running parallel alongside the similarities is where the attraction and fascination lies. If we had everything the same, it wouldn't be any kind of special relationship.

I get sick of reading people claiming we're holding hands as countries when you should know full well that if we said "No" to America, we'd have no help from them if we ever needed it again.

To believe otherwise is naive.

-AC

I have friends in England. So you're wrong.

In the bigger scheme of things, on global politics scale, there has never really been the room for friendship. Yes, two nations can be close, but it more a mutual respect/need kind of situation. Allies and all.

Still, the relationship between the U.S and England is good, though people can (maybe even justifiably) level accusations that this is only because England has been so "supportive" of U.S policy of late. Still, doesn't show friendship, merely that the two nations have a reasonably good, if in some cases one sided, working relationship.

Originally posted by KidRock
I have friends in England. So you're wrong.

No I'm not.

Read the post.

-AC

"My first thought when I heard - just on a personal basis, when I heard there had been this attack and I saw the futures this morning, which were really in the tank, I thought, 'Hmmm, time to buy.'"
- Fox News's Brit Hume, 7/7/05

someone i care about almost died....
I'd like to liberate Brit Hume's face from his teeth.

I love the United Kingdom.

"Two citizens of both countries aren't friends."

I'm sorry but I think THAT is naive.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
No I'm not.

Read the post.

-AC


"Two citizens of both countries aren't friends."

I am a citizen of the U.S...and my friend is a citizen of England, and we are friends. Like I said, you are wrong.

No, I'm not.

If you look at the context in which I said it, I was speaking collectively.

I spoke collectively of the countries, the governments and the citizens.

Not singularly. Of course there are friendships. But that's not one voice throughout our nations.

We all don't love America and Americans, just like America and Americans don't ALL love Brits and Britain.

So no, I wasn't wrong. Unless you can prove that every citizen of both our countries love each other.

-AC

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
No, I'm not.

If you look at the context in which I said it, I was speaking collectively.

I spoke collectively of the countries, the governments and the citizens.

Not singularly. Of course there are friendships. But that's not one voice throughout our nations.

We all don't love America and Americans, just like America and Americans don't ALL love Brits and Britain.

So no, I wasn't wrong. Unless you can prove that every citizen of both our countries love each other.

-AC

Well that's a hasty generalization.

Is it an untrue one?

You're going to actually claim that every citizen of both our countries, loves the other and its citizens?

Because we both know that isn't true.

Am I denying that people can be friends with citizens of their respective countries? Of course not. I have American friends. Hasty generalisation is saying "The Americans are England's friends".

-AC

geez, doesn't anyone else want to beat the shit out of brit hume for saying that?

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
No, I'm not.

If you look at the context in which I said it, I was speaking collectively.

I spoke collectively of the countries, the governments and the citizens.

Not singularly. Of course there are friendships. But that's not one voice throughout our nations.

We all don't love America and Americans, just like America and Americans don't ALL love Brits and Britain.

So no, I wasn't wrong. Unless you can prove that every citizen of both our countries love each other.

-AC

You're wrong in the context of which you said it. IF you said "generally" then it would have been correct, but you specificly said "Two citizens of both counties w/e w/e". So you may be right in what you were thinking, but the way you put it was wrong. But there is no point in argueing it.

Originally posted by Darth Jello
geez, doesn't anyone else want to beat the shit out of brit hume for saying that?

Well to be honest I really didn'T understand what he meant......

he's saying "gee, people are dying, let's buy stock and profit fromt it"

ie. he's what people hate about america, and the conservative upper class in general. and with my friend being in london that day and all...well, I ****in' hate him and fox news even more now.

Originally posted by Darth Jello
he's saying "gee, people are dying, let's buy stock and profit fromt it"

ie. he's what people hate about america, and the conservative upper class in general. and with my friend being in london that day and all...well, I ****in' hate him and fox news even more now.

Hmm you are right...not a very nice thing to say.....

Originally posted by KidRock
You're wrong in the context of which you said it. IF you said "generally" then it would have been correct, but you specificly said "Two citizens of both counties w/e w/e". So you may be right in what you were thinking, but the way you put it was wrong. But there is no point in argueing it.

Well considering you're putting it into a context that you want, not the context I said it in, I think you're being a bit silly.

Coz I'm right, you're wrong. You misinterpreted without asking what it was I meant.

Pshaw.

-AC

AC> I know it can be fustrating when you make a long post, try to explain your points and views, and someone does NOT or does not WANT to get it, and in one sentence proves with all certainty their inability to grasp a context...
I'd leave it be. You'll not be able to explain your point, and someone clearly does not WANT to get it...

Whitlysplat> I "believe" the Bush-administration and Blair-government have a mutually beneficial agreement.

I believe as peoples, ignore the Governments for a minute, we have generally shared values, and as such are friends.

We're not though are we?

There are transatlantic friendships and even relationships but it's not as though every citizen of both countries is friends with the other. To believe such is just idealist.

If it makes you feel safer thinking that America are watching our back because they like us, then fluff your pillow and continue sleeping. They're not, sorry.

As for shared values, just because there's a few similarities, I fail to see how we generally share values. Besides the obvious ones that "we" share with everyone else.

-AC

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
We're not though are we?

There are transatlantic friendships and even relationships but it's not as though every citizen of both countries is friends with the other. To believe such is just idealist.

If it makes you feel safer thinking that America are watching our back because they like us, then fluff your pillow and continue sleeping. They're not, sorry.

As for shared values, just because there's a few similarities, I fail to see how we generally share values. Besides the obvious ones that "we" share with everyone else.

-AC

Thats not what I said and yes economically we are often rivals, America is the most pervasive culture on Earth. Yes, being there allies serves us (it also serves them). Ridiculous as it is we spend a great deal on weapons etc. (actually its not that ridiculous as we still engage in piracy).
Actually I think our relationship with the US is the cause of the bombings this week, so no that doesn't make me sleep at night. Do we have shared values? Are we often mutually supportive on moral grounds? I would say yes. Are America going to reduce emmisions? probably not!
Are we friends despite all this? Yup! you bet!

Keep the faith

Stay Whirly

So, all that to agree with my post, only to end with one line that you just self-disputed.

Yes...

-AC

I didn't self dispute, people read simplicity into a more complex question.
You can be rivals and still friends based on shared values.
Your friends can also get you in trouble

Keep the faith

Stay Whirly

We're not friends though.

Just allies.

-AC

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
We're not friends though.

Just allies.

-AC

I disagree, I think allies with shared values are intrinsically friends.
Friends can get you in trouble, and friends can fall out!

Hmmm. But would the majority of the nations, if asked in a survey, really say "we are friends"? I have a feeling the majority would say "We don't really know, they don't really have an impact on our lives, I don't really think about that, they are useful etc" Friendship is a personal thing, beyond a point it ceases to become that on moves more onto things like mutual respect, mutual need, indifference etc.

Think that post sums it up pretty well actually, I dont think you get any closer to the truth.

Yeah I say America and England are friends.If I go to England i'm not afraid of the Brits holding me hostage and killing me.Now not all Europeans like Americans,but that's just the way it goes.That's true of people everywhere.

well they probably wont do that, they might show open contempt for you though just because you are an American

Originally posted by finti
well they probably wont do that, they might show open contempt for you though just because you are an American


Some would.But it wouldn't be like American!Get him!I think most the bashing would be towards Bush,rather than me.

Originally posted by mr.smiley
Some would.But it wouldn't be like American!Get him!I think most the bashing would be towards Bush,rather than me.

But than syou are friends with every western country....heck with most countries there are not a lot of countries you have t fear to get taken as hostage just cause you are american.

I am a friend of english people!! In England, from England and yeah

no the contempt be aimed at you

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
We're not though are we?

There are transatlantic friendships and even relationships but it's not as though every citizen of both countries is friends with the other. To believe such is just idealist.


-AC

Thats a rather naive argument.. I mean are YOU personally friends with EVERYONE in your own country? Of course not..

I understand that many Britains are incredibly upset right now (even before the bombings) due to our current administration and I for one dont blame you a bit.. I cant stand this President either..

But that does not negate the fact that our two countries are in fact allies (i really hate that word now) and i would say friends as well..

And I have friends in UK as well.. many in fact.. like alot of people here, so your generalizations really hold no water. I know you are upset about the bombings and my deepest sympathies to ALL of the UK in regard to this.. so i am taking your previous (venomous) posts with that in mind hoping that it is your emotions talking.. The PEOPLE of America (f*ck the govt) are very much with you in terms of feeling really horrible at so senseless an act as these bombings .. I just hope you realize that there is a vast difference in the people of the USA and the government and that most of us are good people who want nothing more than for ALL of this violence to end...

bilb: so u r saying the English people are mad at Americans cuz they think WE (americans) caused the bombings?

Originally posted by Lunas#1FAN
bilb: so u r saying the English people are mad at Americans cuz they think WE (americans) caused the bombings?

Well probably more your government

oh okay. Me, a little kidde don't understand these things

I think too many people get into conspiricy theories.The bottom line is people are dead.If theirs credible evidence for them then good,people will belive.If not they won't.

No what I meant was that , just in talking to my UK friends over the past few months, it seems that many Brits are pissed at the US for what seems to be a bullying of the UK into helping us in the war in Iraq.. I sentiment I have to agree with.. As dumb and ignorant as he is Bush certainly knows how to manipulate things when he wants to...

But now with these bombings I think (tho I dont klnow for sure) that many Brits do blame America for the bombings.. Another thing I happen to agree with... Yes we dont have all of the facts yet but I think its safe to assume that at some point th ebombings will be linked to Islamic terrorists and for that IMO the responsibility for th emore than 50 dead and 700 wounded in London lies squarely on the shoulders of Bush..

I know its quite un - pc to jump to hasty conclusions such as these.. but this is how I feel. If proven wong I will happily apologize for any assumptions I have made...

Originally posted by Bardock42
Well probably more your government
As a Londoner I have no anger towards the americans over this, they planted no bombs please don't speak for people in London mate.

Originally posted by whirlysplat
As a Londoner I have no anger towards the americans over this, they planted no bombs please don't speak for people in London mate.

I did not....get the context straight......dammit....you are annoying

Originally posted by whirlysplat
As a Londoner I have no anger towards the americans over this,


nice to know

That I may be, but, you spoke for us saying we blamed America, I am a Londoner my blother was quarter of a mile away from one of the blasts at the time, we do not blame America for it.

Originally posted by whirlysplat
That I may be, but, you spoke for us saying we blamed America, I am a Londoner my blother was quarter of a mile away from one of the blasts at the time, we do not blame America for it.

I did not say that.....

Originally posted by Lunas#1FAN
bilb: so u r saying the English people are mad at Americans cuz they think WE (americans) caused the bombings?

To that I answered "Well probably more your government " ...which means I think Bilb meant the US government not the US people....

I never said I agree to it or that I don't so please....pretty please don't pretend I meant something I never said......

If you didn't mean it thats cool, its how it came across. Like how it came across over not worrying about human suffering with the A bomb thread. If you mean something different thats cool.
I'm not saying you meant one thing if you meant something else, just don't speak for us.

Originally posted by whirlysplat
As a Londoner I have no anger towards the americans over this, they planted no bombs please don't speak for people in London mate.

And what do you suppose the likelihood would be of the terrorists planting bombs in London had America not used it's "friendship" to drag us into an unjust "war", with our government willingly following?

The terrorists carried out the act, would they have if we didn't go into Iraq? I don't believe so for one second.

Tony Blair painted a bullseye on us when he went along with it. Terrorists are to blame of course, but not solely.

-AC

Originally posted by whirlysplat
If you didn't mean it thats cool, its how it came across. Like how it came across over not worrying about human suffering with the A bomb thread. If you mean something different thats cool.
I'm not saying you meant one thing if you meant something else, just don't speak for us.

Well neither can you speak for "Londoners" in general...but that's a different matter....

as for the A-Bomb tread I think that came across right..:I don't care for human suffering.....

The reasons for the War I do not agree with, was Hussein evil you bet. Blair I do have a problem with his record dealing with terrorists is poor in my opininion he capitulated to the IRA. Do I blame the American people, do I balme Bush and Blair for the bomb? No! they didn't plant it. Terrorism is not as simple as that!

Keep the faith

Stay Whirly

Originally posted by Bardock42
Well neither can you speak for "Londoners" in general...but that's a different matter....

as for the A-Bomb tread I think that came across right..:I don't care for human suffering.....

You don't care for human suffering. Do you mean "about".

Originally posted by whirlysplat
do I balme Bush and Blair for the bomb? No! they didn't plant it. Terrorism is not as simple as that!

Keep the faith

Stay Whirly

You believe this attack would have happened even WITHOUT the foolhardy, war-mongering actions of our supposed leaders?

Despite it being well documented that this is retaliation for the invasion?

-AC

I believe Al queda actually have little to do with Iraq. Yes!

9/11 was before Iraq, little evidence links Al queda to Iraq.

So it could well have done.

Yes.

Now if you'll stop rambling and answer my question.

You say you don't blame Bush or Blair, despite them being the ones making us a target. Why?

Just because they didn't physically bomb us? If that's the case, do you believe we would have been bombed even if we didn't invade Iraq with America?

-AC

I think quite possibly yes, as the US were targets of Al Queda prior to the invasion of Iraq and we are their closest ally.

As for Rambling, I don't see two direct statements as rambling.

Originally posted by whirlysplat
You don't care for human suffering. Do you mean "about".

Yes I don't care aboot human suffering....not really.....oh yes and I mean "aboot"

Originally posted by Bardock42
Yes I don't care aboot human suffering....not really.....oh yes and I mean "aboot"

I pity you then

Originally posted by whirlysplat
I pity you then

Hmm this is interesting....why.....it safes you from feeling to much pain.....anyways...why?

I pity you not wishing to empathise with your fellow man.

Originally posted by whirlysplat
I pity you not wishing to empathise with your fellow man.

Hmmm...yes but why...what good does it do....it doesn't make sense

Originally posted by whirlysplat
That I may be, but, you spoke for us saying we blamed America, I am a Londoner my blother was quarter of a mile away from one of the blasts at the time, we do not blame America for it.

no thats not what i meant exactly.. what i meant was that the Brits I have talked to personally seem to blame the US govt.... I never intended to speak for the UK as a whole

I never said you did speak for the uk and neither do I, I know most of my friends blame the terrorists.

Originally posted by Bardock42
Hmmm...yes but why...what good does it do....it doesn't make sense

It stops atrocity, or at least limits it. Never forget the lessons of our past pal pot, Auschwitz etc etc

Originally posted by whirlysplat
It stops atrocity, or at least limits it. Never forget the lessons of our past pal pot, Auschwitz etc etc

Well ok...although if you don't really care you won't label stuff as atrocities....I mean I care some...Auschwitz was wrong......but that's just a flaw in yxour reasonin.

You say if you don't care atrocities will happen but since someone doesn't care he won't care for atrocities either....

Originally posted by Bardock42
Well ok...although if you don't really care you won't label stuff as atrocities....I mean I care some...Auschwitz was wrong......but that's just a flaw in yxour reasonin.

You say if you don't care atrocities will happen but since someone doesn't care he won't care for atrocities either....
At the moment we cannot stop all atrocities but we have to aspire to the idea one day we can! If we stop feeling things this will never happen.

Keep the faith

Stay Whirly

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
You believe this attack would have happened even WITHOUT the foolhardy, war-mongering actions of our supposed leaders?

Despite it being well documented that this is retaliation for the invasion?

-AC


Possibly.They hate all free people.

Originally posted by whirlysplat
I think quite possibly yes, as the US were targets of Al Queda prior to the invasion of Iraq and we are their closest ally.

Yes.....exactly.

But had we not invaded Iraq, the chances of us getting bombed would have been significantly less. So I can't see why you don't hold Bush and/or Blair partly responsible.

Originally posted by mr.smiley
Possibly.They hate all free people.

Don't confuse Al Qaida with stupid dumb terrorists. They are educated enough to cause coordinated strikes.

So I'm not sure that making it as easy as "They hate all free people" is the best way to go.

I seriously doubt we'd have got attacked if we didn't aid Bush.

-AC

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Yes.....exactly.

But had we not invaded Iraq, the chances of us getting bombed would have been significantly less. So I can't see why you don't hold Bush and/or Blair partly responsible.



Don't confuse Al Qaida with stupid dumb terrorists. They are educated enough to cause coordinated strikes.

So I'm not sure that making it as easy as "They hate all free people" is the best way to go.

I seriously doubt we'd have got attacked if we didn't aid Bush.

-AC

We were already on the list at the time of 9/11

Yeah that's true. 9/11 wasn't just about hating America.It was about hating free people too.That's why they hit the world trade center.

Originally posted by mr.smiley
Yeah that's true. 9/11 wasn't just about hating America.It was about hating free people too.That's why they hit the world trade center.
Smiley I'm glad you didn't start watching the news in the last year like many of the people on here

Britain and America have common interests - they are not 'friends' for the sake of it.

Originally posted by lil bitchiness
Britain and America have common interests - they are not 'friends' for the sake of it.

and don't friends have common interests

I believe they are occasional **** buddies and ass kissers hmm

Originally posted by whirlysplat
and don't friends have common interests

Friends aren't supposed to betray each other or lie to each other or keep things from each other when it can help or hurt the other.

Country's are not friends, alliances and treaty's do not make you friends. It makes them realise that they have a common purpose and they will work for it together. But the US or the UK will drop the other faster then something that drops fast if another thing can help them more. Do you honestly think the US would be as happy with the UK if the entire EU would have helped them with everything they did. Or China for that matter? Of course not who cares about the UK if you can have China. Its the same for the UK if they could choose the world or America they would choose the world. More to gain from it, they always choose the side that fits their needs best.

That hardly makes them friends that makes them allies until something better comes up.

Originally posted by Fishy
Friends aren't supposed to betray each other or lie to each other or keep things from each other when it can help or hurt the other.

Country's are not friends, alliances and treaty's do not make you friends. It makes them realise that they have a common purpose and they will work for it together. But the US or the UK will drop the other faster then something that drops fast if another thing can help them more. Do you honestly think the US would be as happy with the UK if the entire EU would have helped them with everything they did. Or China for that matter? Of course not who cares about the UK if you can have China. Its the same for the UK if they could choose the world or America they would choose the world. More to gain from it, they always choose the side that fits their needs best.

That hardly makes them friends that makes them allies until something better comes up.

I think its this sort of idea that prevents federal Europe

Originally posted by whirlysplat
We were already on the list at the time of 9/11

I have a list of things I want.

I'm not gonna get around to getting them all. Just sticking to the one's directly important.

-AC

Originally posted by whirlysplat
and don't friends have common interests

Not always....it's the same as with individual people. There are TONS of people that will have common interests, but that doesn't make them friends.

Originally posted by Lana
Not always....it's the same as with individual people. There are TONS of people that will have common interests, but that doesn't make them friends.

I would find it difficult to be friends with someone I have nothing in common with. We share many things, our Language and moral values are the main ones though.

Originally posted by whirlysplat
I would find it difficult to be friends with someone I have nothing in common with. We share many things, our Language and moral values are the main ones though.

You are just Bullshitting here

Sure friends usually have common interests but that doesn't mean
People with common interests are usually friends.....

It means they often are, a shared morality does that

Originally posted by whirlysplat
It means they often are, a shared morality does that

Morality....HA....maybe economic interest...but sure not the morals of those two countries

with all the arguing going on on this thread i think its time we put aside our differences as people and band together for the common good....here in america and over in England we as a collective whole have become apathetic to what goes on in other parts of the world...G8-"oh theyre gonna help people in Africa and make everything all better" is what i garner from the media...they care not about Africa or working class Americans or Britons...unless you are in the upper 1% youre nothing but cannon fodder for the "Bush /Blair super-hour of Power"(BTW...FORD has attached their name to the summit as official sponsors for the summit) I do remember when 9/11 happened all i could think was "everyones gonna send condolences and feel pity but this too shall pass and we in america have now caught up with the rest of the world and are no longer safe from terrorist attacks that happen abroad(read IRA, Hamas, Hezbollah et. al.) my condolences, thoughts and prayers are with England rightnow for what has happened but i dont think that this will coerce, cajole or otherwise force the collective of our two societies into putting aside differences to "join hands" and everything will be alright and world leaders will suddenly care about us and my English neighbors across the pond

Originally posted by magic_hate_ball
with all the arguing going on on this thread i think its time we put aside our differences as people and band together for the common good....here in america and over in England we as a collective whole have become apathetic to what goes on in other parts of the world...G8-"oh theyre gonna help people in Africa and make everything all better" is what i garner from the media...they care not about Africa or working class Americans or Britons...unless you are in the upper 1% youre nothing but cannon fodder for the "Bush /Blair super-hour of Power"(BTW...FORD has attached their name to the summit as official sponsors for the summit) I do remember when 9/11 happened all i could think was "everyones gonna send condolences and feel pity but this too shall pass and we in america have now caught up with the rest of the world and are no longer safe from terrorist attacks that happen abroad(read IRA, Hamas, Hezbollah et. al.) my condolences, thoughts and prayers are with England rightnow for what has happened but i dont think that this will coerce, cajole or otherwise force the collective of our two societies into putting aside differences to "join hands" and everything will be alright and world leaders will suddenly care about us and my English neighbors across the pond


I think as peoples your posts shows we already care about each other my friend

Originally posted by whirlysplat
I think as peoples your posts shows we already care about each other my friend
So a couple people on a message board represent two entire nations.

Originally posted by whirlysplat
I think as peoples your posts shows we already care about each other my friend
if only the politicians would care...wed be all set

Chelsea FC vs. AC Milan...Jul 24th Foxboro MA...im there!
cheers!

Enjoy, i support a much smaller team than chelsea in the division below them called Millwall

I support an even smaller team called Rushden & Diamonds

Yes they are smaller, but they have a fine history GCG

Originally posted by FeceMan
So a couple people on a message board represent two entire nations.
no but its definitely a start...if 2 do it then 4 do it then 8 and so on....

Originally posted by whirlysplat
I get sick of reading people slag off America on this forum. I am no George Bush fan but dammit, In England we share a set of values with many nations and we do have a "special" relationship with the US.
Yesterday I wondered if I had lost my brother, due to the events in London. I do not believe all Muslims are evil, I do not believe they should be persecuted. I do believe America is England's friend and I do believe that no global conspiracies caused the explosion yesterday outside of a mad group of fanatics wishing to attack the shared values of all decent people world wide. Do you believe the US and Britain are friends as I do?

I'm glad to know that the United Kingdom dissolved at the weekend and Wales,England,Scotland and NI are all separate countries.

time for us to nick back Scotland then

Originally posted by finti
time for us to nick back Scotland then

yeah quick before the Royals notice we are gone!

and the illuminati

and the illuminati

Originally posted by finti
and the illuminati

yeah them too

Originally posted by Grand Moff Gav,
I'm glad to know that the United Kingdom dissolved at the weekend and Wales,England,Scotland and NI are all separate countries.

So am I nope only joking I was best man at a wedding in Cardiff a year ago last march

Originally posted by whirlysplat
So am I nope only joking I was best man at a wedding in Cardiff a year ago last march

i dont mind

your a nice guy

No no i will kill you later but i have to appear nice