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Which Sith Lord in all its history has been the most powerful force user in terms of raw force potential and the amount of force powers they held? And why was Marka Ragnos so feared by other Sith?

Someone's gonna say Revan. But I think Ragnos was the toughest.

well anakin skywalker had the greatest potential but many other sith lords were more powerful like darth revan, exar kun, freedon nadd etc etc.

Marka Ragnos. Naga Sadow, the person who blew up stars for a living, was scared of him damnit. No one ever challenged him while he was ruler, or when he was dying. That says alot considerin all the other Sith and what happened usually.

I think I'd have to hand this to either Exar Kun or Marka Ragnos. Ragnos we don't know too much about, but common knowledge seems to dictate this, and for info on Kun, ask Lord Darkstar. He convinced me. And although I'm hesitant about this one, Revan after KOTOR amy stand a chance, but I'm not too sure, so I'll go with the first two.

i really want to know more about this ragnos fellow i mean ive heard how powerful he is but im not familiar with what he ever did or where his power came from

Same here Zamorak. Somehow everyone says Ragnos is so powerful, so I'll just go with it until something comes up. They should have written something about him in Tales of the Sith.

He didn't do anything against the Republic since he was smart, so it would be kinda boring except if they showed his rise to power.

Good point; but I'm sure they could have made something interesting about why he was one the most feared being in the galaxy for so long. Which would go into his rise to power so.....uhhhh.......whatever.

He was so powerful - his rule was COMPLETELY unchallenged for 150 years.

that doesnt really say anything about him

Exactly, which is why some backstory and details about his powers would be greatly appreciated; the fact he was unchallenged IMPLIES great power, but doesn't say or work much in a fight.

this was done before

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/f6/t349411.html

Not to mention this doesn't belong here, but ah well. It could help solve some threads.

If Anakin never got hurt he would have made Revan and Luke look like Gungans.

Either exar kun or sidious imho, but who knows; marka ragnos may have been able to kill them both at the same time with a wave of his hand.

Originally posted by Darth Windu
Good point; but I'm sure they could have made something interesting about why he was one the most feared being in the galaxy for so long. Which would go into his rise to power so.....uhhhh.......whatever.

Ragnos decapitated lord simus i na duel when he rose to power, simus was another sith lord noone knows anything about.

well that doesnt really say anything either.....lord simus could of being really reaallly weak

In raw Force potential, Anakin/Darth Vader would be the most powerful. If he had reached his full potential, he would easily own the likes of Sidious, Revan, Exar, and Ragnos.

In terms of mastery of the Force, it all depends. Some excel where others do not. Kreia and Sidious were spectacularly gifted in Forsight. Sidious was also trained in battle meditation as well. Revan was well rounded in about everything - as was Exar.

But from speculation - Ragnos would probably be the strongest. Oh, and Tulak Horde is the greatest lightsaber duelist.

Revan reminds me of the "jack of all trades" kind of guy.

Ragnos.

For raw potential I have to say a full developed Darth Vader / Anakin Skywalker would be the best.

For force powers and mastery that one goes to Marka Ragnos obviously.
I know people would say "Well...we don't know that much about Ragnos". Yes.

Still:
- he had Naga Sadow as an apprentice. Sadow could basically do everything the Dark Lords that followed him could do (Exar Kun, Freedon Nadd and so on)
- he rained over the Sith Empire for over 150 years without anybody ever challenging him.
- after his death he still is something like the "puppet master" behind the Sith empire. No one ever questioned his decissions even when he was a ghost because even then he was more powerful than the most known Sith lords were alive.
- his spirit remained in the galaxy (without being chained to a certain place) for more than 5,000 years.
- and even after that 5,000 years his spirit was so powerful that he could take control over another force user

That's the reason why basically every other Sith lord past him did fear him. Sadow did that. Exar Kun did that. And imagine how powerful somebody must have been that somebody like Sadow even FEARS his ghost.

Originally posted by Nai Fohl
For raw potential I have to say a full developed Darth Vader / Anakin Skywalker would be the best.

For force powers and mastery that one goes to Marka Ragnos obviously.
I know people would say "Well...we don't know that much about Ragnos". Yes.

Still:
- he had Naga Sadow as an apprentice. Sadow could basically do everything the Dark Lords that followed him could do (Exar Kun, Freedon Nadd and so on)
- he rained over the Sith Empire for over 150 years without anybody ever challenging him.
- after his death he still is something like the "puppet master" behind the Sith empire. No one ever questioned his decissions even when he was a ghost because even then he was more powerful than the most known Sith lords were alive.
- his spirit remained in the galaxy (without being chained to a certain place) for more than 5,000 years.
- and even after that 5,000 years his spirit was so powerful that he could take control over another force user

That's the reason why basically every other Sith lord past him did fear him. Sadow did that. Exar Kun did that. And imagine how powerful somebody must have been that somebody like Sadow even FEARS his ghost.

I like you LOLOLOLOLOL

For potential it's Anakin Skywalker with Revan in second, IMO.

In terms of Force powers, I think either Revan or Traya, probably Traya.

is there seriously no good info on ragnos???

Yeah basically. We know he lost as a spirit even in a Dark Jedi master's body with a Sith sword, to a Jedi knight. We know he ruled a long time over the Sith but nothing else. He sure didn't want to attack the Republic, and that's about everything.

He didn't want to attack the Republic cuz he was smart to know that they probably wouldn't win.

There is nothing that says Ragnos is powerful it's merely implied, as for being unchallenged and feared by powerful sith lords, an elephant fears a mouse does that make the mouse stronger?

Personally it's between exar, Revan and sadow in no particular order as the three are extremely close.

Why are you placing Sadow on that list? Ragnos was clearly more powerful then him otherwise Sadow would have killed him. A elephant may fear a mouse but if that mouse is his key to power he will sure as hell try to defeat it. At least if he can. Sadow never even tried, and he wasn't that much of a coward.

An elephant is afraid of the mouse because of what it can do to it. Same with this thing, they know what Ragnos can do to them.

So absically your placing Sadow on the list and taking Ragnos out because you don't have proof on him, but you do on Sadow, despit the fact that Sadow was scared as hell of him. He was scared of his "ionized air particles".

Yeah, Ragnos was definitly more powerful then Sadow was or could ever hope to be. By all logic we can not even place Sadow near Ragnos.

True. But Revan and Kun are well placed. However, I dothink both Exar Kun and Ragnos are more powerful than Revan, so the toss-up should be between them. But Revan is certainly a close contender.

I'm not so sure on Exar on Revan. From what we know Exar is more powerful but in a fight I still give Revan a pretty good chance like 50% 50% because Revan is a great fighter and has some edges that Exar does not. But then again there is a lot we don't know about Revan yet (I hope) so we will just have to wait and see. Maybe he will become more powerful then Exar one day.

Still I agree with you, there are only two that I would rate higher then Revan. Ragnos and Exar (possibly) the rest is just to vague.

I feel the same way. Exar and Revan are debatable; I'd go with Exar, but that's controversial. All things said, Marka Ragnos deserves to be up there no matter what.

I agree, revan is out of his league when compared to exar and ragnos.

Not completely out of his league, but I think it can be safely said that Kun and Ragnos would have the upper hand. Not a huge upper hand, but an advantage no less. Revan probably has some tricks up his sleeve, but I think the former two could take him.

Revan might have a lot of knowledge and skill, but that's not enough to defeat Marka. But we haven't heard the last of Revan......

No, he had the most MIDI-CHLORIANS of any one on record in the Jedi Archives. Keep in mind, the Jedi archives do not go back to an unlimited date, it is uncertain whether or not they include records of the ancient Jedi and Sith, and it is even more uncertain how Midi-Chlorians translate into "potential" directly.

This whole "Anakin had the most potential of ANYBODY" is silly. He had the most potential of anyone in the GL movie saga, but of ANYBODY is a broad term and shouldn't be used lightly.

As far as best SITH LORD, this shouldn't be a debate, it's Ragnos, he was unquestioned for over a century.

As far as best duelist, or most formidable fighter, we DON'T know enough about certain individuals to make a reasonable stab.



You're docking Ragnos because you know very little about him. Way to go logical fallacy, good game.

Because you DON'T know something, the converse must be true. Brilliant abilities of deduction, you could be a real Sherlock Holmes.



Actually, the whole "elephant fears mice" thing is really a pretty big urban myth. Most elephants don't react to mice.

Also, mice can physiologically kill an elephant, it seems reasonable to fear someone that can kill you.

Stick that in your pipe and smoke it.

Originally posted by Fishy
I'm not so sure on Exar on Revan. From what we know Exar is more powerful but in a fight I still give Revan a pretty good chance like 50% 50% because Revan is a great fighter and has some edges that Exar does not. But then again there is a lot we don't know about Revan yet (I hope) so we will just have to wait and see. Maybe he will become more powerful then Exar one day.

Still I agree with you, there are only two that I would rate higher then Revan. Ragnos and Exar (possibly) the rest is just to vague.

What? What makes you think Exar is more powerful than Lord Revan?

Darkstar, I don't think he could win from Revan in a fight however. At least that would be a very great fight and the winner would change everytime you hold it. Still I think Exar has a bit more raw power, Revan seems more whats the word? Well relaxed or something with his power.

Like sometimes the weaker oponent defeats the stronger one by just being a better fighter. Which is what I think Revan is more then anything else, he has a great command of the force but his fighting ability well that just defeats a lot of people and IMO Exar too. But is he more powerful speaking in terms of power no? Just more skilled with fighting IMO.

Illustrious Im only saying anakin had more potential than the other characters we know. The characters we dont know might have a greater potential. If he had reached his prime (which he didnt) i think he would be a really strong opponent, stronger than others.

Originally posted by Fishy
Darkstar, I don't think he could win from Revan in a fight however. At least that would be a very great fight and the winner would change everytime you hold it. Still I think Exar has a bit more raw power, Revan seems more whats the word? Well relaxed or something with his power.

Like sometimes the weaker oponent defeats the stronger one by just being a better fighter. Which is what I think Revan is more then anything else, he has a great command of the force but his fighting ability well that just defeats a lot of people and IMO Exar too. But is he more powerful speaking in terms of power no? Just more skilled with fighting IMO.

I agree that even if Kun was more powerful, Revan would beat him like the Obi vs. Anakin or something. But I was wondering why you think Kun is more powerful? He didn't blow up stars, his hencmen found ancient sith devices or somesuch that blew up the cores. I've looked at many sites about Kun and none have mentioned the ground shaking when he walked. Kun wasn't just toying with Vodo and it didn't take ten seconds. Kun was definitely stronger but it wasn't a really quick fight and Vodo was trying to turn him back. Kun didn't even freeze the entire senate, just most of them.

Exar was even pretty weak before he got that Sith amulet. He had a lightsaber and lost to Vodo who had a walking stick, it took Kun with two lightsabers to defeat him. Then Kun had to use Freedon's help to save his life twice, once from a part of building collapsed on him and once from some beasts on Korriban that sounded much like Tukata. Then he got that Sith amulet and it increased his power so much he could destroy Freedon's spirit. And do you wanna know how Ulic could fight so well against Kun? He had a Sith amulet too. Last but not least, I couldn't find anything about thousands of Jedi coming after him. I don't know how many but nothing said thousands.

Exar definetley isn't weak, but what you say about Revan Darkstar is partly irrelevant about game stats.

Zamorak has a good point though about Anakin, although most would agree anyway. Imagine someone of Anakin's potencial using a Sith Amulet or other Sith artefacts like Exar or some other Sith Lords, that would be quite impressive. . .

nooooooooooooooo my sig

I believe Kun would OWN Revan.

Revenge is sweet isn't it



About that vision thing, one hit was enough to kill everybody you faced. Malak died with one blow, Bastila died with one blow all died with one blow. Killing Revan with one blow is not impressive. Him not hitting you is however, I never had he could pack a punch for the short while he was alive. But this was just a vision not even a force ghost just a vision. So really it hardly states anything about the power because everybody was weak and it could be that, that part of the vision was harder to do and therefor weaker or whatever who knows who cares . It could have a thousand reasons but it hardly matters.



Still it wasn't a bad thing, and thats just speculation at best and probably false. Obviously Revan did not go there alone but I find it more likely that they all just walked aside and let Revan face Mandalore then Revan not facing one Mandelorian before facing Mandalore. Whatever the case Mandalore and Yusanis were still Jedi killers of great power. Nothing against a true master obviously and Revan was one so its no surprise he won but he probably killed some guards on the way.



Mira or Atton or whoever was in a place of great Dark Side power, and that line is so stupid. It activates every time you go there no matter who leads. But really not the point, lets say Mira leads. With me Mira was actually my most powerful character and the greatest Jedi except for Kreia and the Exile in the party. And in a place of the Dark Side when she was already Dark Side meaning extra power. Nothing important really if you ask me, but that hardly matters at this time. The difference is however that the Sith Lord said that she could become powerful. Could become very powerful not that she was.

Against Revan it was said that he was powerful and asked why he was not wearing his robes, there is a difference. QGJ said Anakin could be become very powerful not that he was very powerful. Revan apparently showed more powerful then Mira did and somehow already radiated that he had training or something. Of course it could all just be in the way she speaks and the choice of words. Hardly matters anyways, the words of a weak Sith Lord of a weak apprentice hardly matter to me. Its not like they know what they are talking about anyway.



We both already talked about Kreia losing from the Exile and both agreed that she probably just wanted to die. She still wanted the force to die, can you think of a better way then sending the Exile after Revan? I can't and how she have done that. And Revan was like staring in the heart of the force is nothing that would make the Exile train harder. Its not something he can become later on. However it could also be that Kreia was constantly trying to get the force to die and make the Exile realise that one day he would have to fight Revan if he would survive. So you could be right again. I don't know and I hardly care really.

You have a good point with this however, on the other hand Kreia hardly ever lies about things like that. And there is no reason to assume she would have lied about staring into the heart of the force. Its all just guesses, but a few things I would like to say about Revan regaining his memory something that is often forgotten. Actually I had never ever seen it until I thought of it.

Revan his memory's were supposed to be completely destroyed by the power of Malak his attack and then by the Jedi (Bastila says so because she heard it from the council) sitll he somehow in a very limited time managed to find a technique or create his own that could create his memory's.

Elephants fear mice, some humans fear the tiniest of spiders etc. We have never seen Ragnos accomplish anything other then rule for a long time, just because you're afraid of something doesn't mean that what your afraid of is more powerful then you are fears can be there without being justified remember.

We're judging people by what they've accomplished/the amount of power they have Ragnos ruled for a long time and scared some sith lords, do we know whether or not hey're fear was justified? Do we know that he deserved to be feared like he did? What power did he display when his spirit got it's ass kicked? what powers do we know he displayed in real life? Sith have the ability to affect their enemies minds like in Kotor for instance (Horror,insanity) for all we know he could have used one of those or a similiar power to control the sith.

So please kepp your sarcastic comments to your self illustrious.

well I've been out of it for a while so that post was probably on a dead thread by now, but wtv as for the exile being her greatest student she may have been refering to Revan when he was her student.

Originally posted by Darth_Frobo
well I've been out of it for a while so that post was probably on a dead thread by now, but wtv as for the exile being her greatest student she may have been refering to Revan when he was her student.

She said it directly to the exile so no I dont think she meant revan.

I don't care what she meant, she was lying. And of course it could be that the Exile was more powerful then Revan was before he started training under other masters. When she was still his master, but not more powerful then Revan.

Originally posted by Fishy
I don't care what she meant, she was lying. And of course it could be that the Exile was more powerful then Revan was before he started training under other masters. When she was still his master, but not more powerful then Revan.


yea. personally i think the only reason the xile was so powerful or whatever is because the people who wrote the game were trying to "top" who you were in the first game. does that make sense? the only rason the exile was powerful was to "dazzel" you.

but it's deffinantly between revan exar and ragnos but none of them is easily beat beatin.

Wow, you must have not read anything of what I said, or you wouldn't make that statement.

Elephants don't FEAR mice, it's a popularized urban myth. There might have been CERTAIN elephants that exhibited tendencies that indicated they might fear mice, and the myth was born; but in general, elephants can care less about mice.

These tiny spiders also can kill you, and fear of them usually is triggered by some event in early life, or is believed to be so.

Also, there is a difference between fearing and following. I may fear my professor because he can flunk me from his class, but that doesn't mean I'll follow him around in order to prevent that from happening. The fact that Sadow both FEARED Ragnos AND followed him shows something.



So simply because you don't know, you are docking him points for it.

That's what I mean by logical fallacy. "Well, I don't know about him, therefore Revan and Exar must be more powerful."

That's exactly the logic you're exhibiting. Hence, I find it very laughable and very difficult to:



Otherwise, all you can say that OF the individuals we are familiar with, Exar is the most powerful, or Revan is the most powerful. But don't kid yourself with the "oh they must be more powerful than Ragnos since we have no idea what he did".

lets say I was a really powerful jedi and I met against darth nihilus. I would be scared cause he has the power to eat me but that doesnt mean hes more powerful than me.

Originally posted by Illustrious
No, he had the most MIDI-CHLORIANS of any one on record in the Jedi Archives. Keep in mind, the Jedi archives do not go back to an unlimited date, it is uncertain whether or not they include records of the ancient Jedi and Sith, and it is even more uncertain how Midi-Chlorians translate into "potential" directly.

This whole "Anakin had the most potential of ANYBODY" is silly. He had the most potential of anyone in the GL movie saga, but of ANYBODY is a broad term and shouldn't be used lightly.

Lucas clearly said that a fully developed Anakin would have been the most powerful force user ever. So please don't contradict that statement. I think Lucas might know better than you what's true and false in his own universe.

Originally posted by Lord Darkstar
Actually Emperor Revan, you are partly correct about the blowing up stars thing, he did find Naga Sadow's ship and had a underling blow up one star with it. This both killed the underling and destroyed the ship. However, when he went to Ossus, the star there went nova as well, since Naga's ship was destroyed, either Exar or Ulic had to have done it, since Exar was stronger, I am saying it was Exar, simple logic.

About the ground shaking when he walked, I actually found that on three sites and saved them to a list, however, my computer crashed and I no longer have them, ****. Since I cannot re-find them, I will stop saying that, but I am sure I have seen that in several places (no none of them are SS)

For his fight with Vodo, I'm not sure where you looked, but he was toying with him, and once he tried, the fight was over. So maybe not 10 seconds, but very close. And sure Vodo tried to turn him back to the lightside, but Obi-Wan was trying to turn Anakin back to the lightside in RotS, didn't mean he didn't try and win the fight.

About Exar being weak, yes he did loose to Vodo and had to get 2 lightsabers to beat him, however, what you forget to mention is that he was an apprentice at the time, if Revan tried to beat Kreia when he was still an apprentice, he would loose, if the padawan in RotS tried to beat Yoda, he would lose (I said Yoda because Vodo was 600 years old, thus it would be like a padawan facing him). And after that point Exar got much stronger, you cannot say that Exar is weak because he lost when he was a padawan, everyone is weak then. Also, just before that match with Vodo (as a padawan), Exar had just fought and defeated two other padawans that same age as him, both other students of Vodo so they recieved the same training, at the same time, also this was when he still only had his single bladed lightsaber.

About Kun using Freedon's help, that was because Freedon was blocking him from using the lightside, and since at that time Kun was still a jedi, he was blocking him from using the force. Again that doesn't matter since Kun got much stronger and killed Freedon.


First two paragraphs: Fair enough, though I went to a couple sites dedicated to Exar Kun with tons of details and didn't find anything about Exar using the Force to blow up a star.

For the rest of the Exar paragraphs: Touche. You're absolutely right, I'm just saying he wasn't that extraordinary without the amulet IMO.

As for your Revan "bashing" I have answered all that on the Revan vs. Yoda thread that just won't die. It's rather long too so don't fall asleep.

It's actually kinda funny, you and I are like mirror opposites with Exar Kun for you and Revan for me.

Originally posted by Nai Fohl
Lucas clearly said that a fully developed Anakin would have been the most powerful force user ever. So please don't contradict that statement. I think Lucas might know better than you what's true and false in his own universe.

Where does he say this again? And does he use the words "Most powerful ever"? And even if he did, who ****ing cares? Anakin was a whiney ***** who got owned and is now mecha-***** who got owned. End of story.

HAHAHAHA! You forgot the manical laugh Janus!

I did.

Hm. I forgot to add **** this thread.

I refuse to actually debate on this thread because I can't take the time to disect each megapost while at work in between calls. Meh. Funk dat.

ragnos

I never do tire of people who just skip 2+ pages of debate and do this:

vader


cideus

anykin

obyone

Long live the absentminded, lazy newbie.