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Venom symbiosis will enhance Akuma's senses, strength, agility, speed, durability, stamina, and power past their already superhuman levels and vastly increase his ki energy level.

disclaimer: none of these characters possess sonic or heat weapons

1. batman + daredevil

2. Ryu + Ken + Zangief

3. Wolverine + Spiderman + Sabretooth

4. Collossus + Thing

5. Wonderwoman + Hercules

6. Juggernaut

If this is akuma at his max, he takes it easily, the only problem would be how to be rid of juggernaut, but a raging demon eats the mind, heart, and sould. And a chi blast is no normal damage by any means.

really? I didn't realize akuma was that powerful...you think he could take wonderwoman and hercules easily, I mean I don't think he could just pull a raging demon like nothing

Like I said, at HIS best showing, and since you said shin akuma I accept no less. Shin Akuma can crush meteors, and walk the ocean floor, at his BEST, he is in the god tier with Oro a mystical being, and gill who is cosmic. If you were talking about the akuma that is stronger than demitri, a 5000 year old vampire, or the akuma that beat a creature made of pure energy that lived on the sun, yes.
.
Otherwise no.

your knowledge of akuma humbles me

and yeah, my intention of shin akuma was for the most powerful akuma possible, I severely underestimated his power

Originally posted by CorderaMitchell
If this is akuma at his max, he takes it easily, the only problem would be how to be rid of juggernaut, but a raging demon eats the mind, heart, and sould. And a chi blast is no normal damage by any means.
The only thing i don't agree on is how easily you say he can get rid of Juggs. Juggs has had the flesh stripped of his bones as well as organs and still was moving like he had muscle so an attack on his body is worthless. secondly I wonder if his helmet could still block an attack on his mind despite the fact that the source of the mental attack is a different form other than telepathy but I don't think that it will work because Juggernaught has always been looked at in a broader sense when it comes to taking attacks. The soul part is what interests me in that I wonder if Juggernaught has a soul or if he doesn't have one anymore. Also if he does have one then does his enchantment protect him from it being attacked as well.
Also juggs has traded blows with the Hulk whose feats are of the same calibur or higher so I think Juggs can take it what Akuma can and bring it back ten fold.
As for the other ones the only other things that would worry me are number 2 Ryu Ken and Zangief because i don't know how they would fair as a team.
Also I would think number 5 Wonder Woman and Hercules could give him problems. Not so much WW but Herc after all if it is full god herc then he is immortal and is probably immune to the attacks of Akuma he also wouls have the strength to trade blows and has the speed and fighting ability to win as well.

Originally posted by newjak86
The only thing i don't agree on is how easily you say he can get rid of Juggs. Juggs has had the flesh stripped of his bones as well as organs and still was moving like he had muscle so an attack on his body is worthless. secondly I wonder if his helmet could still block an attack on his mind despite the fact that the source of the mental attack is a different form other than telepathy but I don't think that it will work because Juggernaught has always been looked at in a broader sense when it comes to taking attacks. The soul part is what interests me in that I wonder if Juggernaught has a soul or if he doesn't have one anymore. Also if he does have one then does his enchantment protect him from it being attacked as well.

I said that would be the main problem, HOW would he get rid of juggernaut? He cant' be killed, akuma could launch him into space, or he could do a raging demon, it eats his mind, body,and soul. Those are the only 2 options there.

Originally posted by newjak86


He can take the hits, I'm not denying that in any sense, but he can still be taken into space, or raging demoned. Akuma is not new to the impregnable.

Originally posted by newjak86
As for the other ones the only other things that would worry me are number 2 Ryu Ken and Zangief because i don't know how they would fair as a team.

Shin Akuma with a symbiote, is worse than Cyber Akuma, and Cyber Akuma was dirty, only someone like onslaught would beat him. With a symbiote, akuma has no metal, and is enhanced over tenfold. Shin Akuma is at the top of street fighter, along with cosmic gill, and mystic oro.

Originally posted by newjak86
Also I would think number 5 Wonder Woman and Hercules could give him problems. Not so much WW but Herc after all if it is full god herc then he is immortal and is probably immune to the attacks of Akuma he also wouls have the strength to trade blows and has the speed and fighting ability to win as well.

Gill is immortal too, he can also resurrect after a knockout, Gill is cosmic. Just because he is immortal, doesn't mean he cant get his butt kicked.
With spirit and soul only, maybe not easily, but akuma is simply a better fighter than these combatants, and is GOD strong.

the latest news

in a shocking sequence of events the legendary one himself j-platinum decides that shin akuma is too damn powerful and as I speak they are duking it out in the middle of the street

lol, where, where is this match?

C-Master I was simply stating that I thought the Juggs was Akuma's biggest challengerand that i wondered if the Raging Demon would work(Which currently until proven otherwise I don't think it would).
as for Herc I was stating that I see that as his only other real threat because if it was immortal Herc then that wouldn't be an easy fight for Akuma either.

No I'm not saying you are wrong at all, my point is do you think Akuma is at his max power here?

Thats what I don't know i wish the thread starter would have been more specific on what characters we should be debaring because he left alot of open things there.
For instance is this immortal Herc or Mortal One.
Is it God Like Akuma or the weaker version.
Heck which Juggs did he want to use, Classic, Current, 8th Day, or Trion.
I know he probably wanted to create the most equal match probably but a little specifics could help.

I'm thinking all of them at their best, thats what I go by when unspecified.

He did say Shin Akuma, and he is godlike.

But if their all at their best then that menas Trion Juggs is waiting for him at the end and I'm sorry but there aren't many that can stand up to him and I don't think that Akuma could do it. Immortal Herc would be a fight for him but with the Symbote he would get all the way to trion and would be destroyed I think. I think that a better person for Akuma to fight at the end would be classic Juggs what you think C-Master

Perhaps it is Juggernaut, I just know shin akuma. It says wonder woman and herc, but I don't see why he'd put a weak akuma in a gauntlet.

For that matter, trion juggs would only lose in space, a raging demon, would go through his armor. The lethality of a move should be enhanced by the symbiote, and the fact that this is indeed SHin(tien)akuma would alone be fatal for most anyone.

Cyber akuma had a mild armor upgrade from apocolypse, a living symbiote should be better in terms of chi. But I'm not sure if a raging demon one time would be enough for Juggernaut, may take 2.

Then again the symbiote could just remove the helmet, and he could do a misogi chop on Juggernauts head, which was enough to destroy Ayer's rock. Thats where I am now.

I think that your logic might work with Classic Juggs but Trion. The guy punched through Dimensions didn't even pay attention to Thor when he was being attacked. With his helmet off he withstood a telepathic attack from Xavier this guy ain't going down by a raging Demon I'm still not sure it would be enough to take down Classic but i will give you the benefit of a doubt.
I know it attacks the mind and body and soul but could it finish off classic not sure. Also remember that his armor really hasn't been proven to be the source of his durability as well and Hulk hasn't even broken that armor and he has punched Juggs in the head and Hulk has destroyed plenty of big things with those punches. But he does have the symbiote which could turn the tide against Classic Juggs still not sure though.

Indeed, trion juggernaut is pretty damned strong, but he is thought to be invurnerable WITH his mystic armor. Tien Akuma is no pushover in strength either, but neither is hulk.

I assume a ring out would be the only win for a trion juggernaut then, no other way, but the power of the body, and the power of the soul are 2 entirely different things.

hi guys just to clear things up

I specifically said Shin Akuma because I wanted the most powerful version of akuma, i had no idea that he was godly though

The hercules I selected is the demigod version of the marvel comics

and by Juggernaut, I meant the classic juggernaut, which I think is what most people refer to when they mention juggernaut.

Ok thanks, akuma wins then with little trouble.

Nice thread though.

Thank you Masterbruce for clarifying this. Well since I know the Herc now he Akuma makes it to Juggs no problem then.
As for the body and soul being different it is true C-Master but the point has never been brought up as to whether Juggs even still has a soul. Also his Magic would probably defend against it anyway I'm just saying it couldn't happen but I don't think that it will be that easy for Akuma.
Now since it is Classic I believe this is a fight now Trion I feel is to much for Akuma even at his most powerful. Classic this would be a fight this is the guy I was saying took the punches from Hulk. Also I don't think the raging Demon will hurt Juggs soul or mind unless Akuma could get off the helmet. Even then it still may not destroy his mind because if it physically destroys the Mind then it won't work. Telepathy actually enters someone's mind and effects the memories stuff like that not the actual brain itself. The Venom Symbiote could change this though maybe not enough to put Juggs down permantly but maybe enough for a ring out and possibly a KO possibly.

Yes I agree, he would beat classic juggernaut, by means of a ring out.

This akuma is no wuss by any means, and I'm sure that Trion juggernaut still has a soul. The problem is Akuma has too many aspects of fighting and fighting speed to be caused a problem from trion juggs, resulting in a ringout win and a ringout win only.

Gill himself is cosmic and immortal, and Shin Akuma killed him with the demon, Gill resurrected and it was a stalemate, that being said the new and improved shin akuma should be able to hurt Trion Juggernaut, but not kill him per say. I feel that space ring out is the best option.

I here the Space ring out but I think you are greatly underestemating the sheer Power and Durability of Trions. The only thing that stopped him was his self by breaking free of Cyytoraks control no one else was able to hurt him Thor included. Trion has a soul I'm pretty sure his his powers can stop the Raging Demon. Classic is the one who should fight Akuma maybe 8th day but that Juggs is also a power house of destruction.

I understand Juggernaut fine, but Akuma is being underestimated. The raging demon was a theory and may or may not work, but I wouldn't count it out.

The symboite gives akuma too much power. Akuma has beaten pyron, a creature WHO LIVES on the sun, he has faced power houses before, including cosmic Gill.

I am not underestimating Akuma my friend you have done a superb job in explaining him and he very well could take on the top tier of Marvel Earth Heros such as Hulk or Thor but Trion is something far beyond Akuma my friend. I grant you the symbiote increases his powers but not nearly enough to be close to Trion's Power. Like I said a possible middle ground is if he fught 8th day Juggs. I agree he can fight and possibly beat classic Juggs but only in a small theory because even though Akuma could have him in sheer power I still don't think he can hurt Classic Juggs. Now I feel that possibly Akuma and 8th Day Juggs can match eacthother in sheer power but I still think even 8th day is somewhat more powerful.

I understand the invurnerability, but I am speaking ring out, that aside, its difficult to say where each stand, because they haven't shown their upper limits of strength yet.

Yes I agree he could win with possible rng out against Trion if he can move him. Anyway from the description of the feats you have told me mixed with the symbiote I see Akuma vs 8th Day Juggs as the the more equal match up here in power. I don't see how Akuma can hurt Classic Juggs but from what you tell me Akuma could be in the strength level of Hulk with the symbiote Akuma wouldn't hurt him but Classic Juggs would be at his mercy.

Keep in mind however, that akuma moved in space to destroy a meteor, he also has the "ashura zenkuu", or demon warp, a warp to space would be the best choice in action.

I know that trion juggs is no pushover, I'm sorry if it seems so, I'm just defending a less popular character, you know how it usually is with juggs.

I hear ya but like I sadi I think that the fight between these two should be between 8th Day and Akuma I feel these guys are on a more level playing field. Trion to strong has to be ring out Classic probably can't hurt him but not strong enough to pose a problem for Akuma with symbiote.

Well that would give it some creativity then, list me some of Trion Juggs BEST feats.

Punching through dimensions withstood a mental attack from Xavier without his helmet on, didn't even acknowledge attacks from Thor.
Basically trion is when Cyttorak took control of Juggernaughts body and pretty much tranfered all of his power into his Exemplar's body. He could very well be on Galactus level some people think.
I think it would be better to argue 8th Day and Akuma

Fair enough, maybe I was off then, no way but a teleport.

Only onslaught and cyber akuma would stand a chance then.

How do you feel about symbiote shin akuma vs. 8th day?

I feel these guys can trade blows and Although I feel 8th day is stronger but Akuma is faster and a better fighter. It comes down to the Raging Demon. It is worthless in attacking his body or soul but the mind is still a prime target. This isn't the Juggs that can withstand a mental attack but I do have one question about it. Does it attack the mind physically and destroys it that way or is it like a normal telepathic attack that attacks the person's memories and personality?
If it causes physical harm to the brain then it is worthless if it is like a normal telepathic attack then Akuma whould still have to remove the helmet but he could.

Originally posted by newjak86
I feel these guys can trade blows and Although I feel 8th day is stronger but Akuma is faster and a better fighter. It comes down to the Raging Demon. It is worthless in attacking his body or soul but the mind is still a prime target. This isn't the Juggs that can withstand a mental attack but I do have one question about it. Does it attack the mind physically and destroys it that way or is it like a normal telepathic attack that attacks the person's memories and personality?
If it causes physical harm to the brain then it is worthless if it is like a normal telepathic attack then Akuma whould still have to remove the helmet but he could.

It's an overwhelming force, that was banned from fighting. It grants a win OVER ANY opponent, and is mystical in nature. (magic in some aspects, though not truly, it can hurt him though). It attacks all of those in such an overwhelming force, that it is fatal. The only to survive it were Gill, a cosmic immortal. Gen, Akuma's once rival, survived it but emptied his soul and mind entirely, a defeat.

To get an idea of how it works, look at the pic I put on the other thread, its the watered down versoin from the other akuma, but it can work. As far as the symbiote, it taints the minds of opponents, making the raging demon THAT much more powerful. If it were to ever connect, the symbiote would make it more lethal than before.

The fact it is mystical in nature makes this interesting since Jugg's powers are mystical in as well. Then the Raging Demon could overwhelm his mystical protection and hurt him. Though that is unlikely considering who backs that power Cyttorak. This is the same baing you Strange invokes alot just to show how powerful this guy is. Anyway you said that it basically is Overwhlems oppenents but Juggs great Durability is hard (in fact it has never been done) to overcome and overload.

Originally posted by newjak86
The fact it is mystical in nature makes this interesting since Jugg's powers are mystical in as well. Then the Raging Demon could overwhelm his mystical protection and hurt him. Though that is unlikely considering who backs that power Cyttorak. This is the same baing you Strange invokes alot just to show how powerful this guy is. Anyway you said that it basically is Overwhlems oppenents but Juggs great Durability is hard (in fact it has never been done) to overcome and overload.

Agreed his powerful is mystical in nature, but without his armor,or helmet, he is seen as a muscle man, the symbiote would work wonders in removing that from him. Thats what the xmen do.

Its juggies armor for the most part, not his body, that is still treated as suspect.

Even still no one even the Hulk has broken that armor plus even still has taken a hit from the hulk to the head without his helmet on so his durability isn't completely his armor.
Still i would like to know about the Raging Demon's attack on the mind.
is it a physical attack on the mind or is it like a normal telepathic attack.

Originally posted by newjak86
Even still no one even the Hulk has broken that armor plus even still has taken a hit from the hulk to the head without his helmet on so his durability isn't completely his armor.
Still i would like to know about the Raging Demon's attack on the mind.
is it a physical attack on the mind or is it like a normal telepathic attack.

No, not break the armor, the symbiote could REMOVE the helmet.
Then that would allow a misogi to the head, a move that broke Ayer's rock, and can easily destroy islands and such.

Akuma is no pushover either, he destroyed a fast moving meteor 1/3 the size of the earth, he is STRONG. That AND the symbiote, would make him capable of defeatin him, ONLY if at least his helmet is removed covertly or overtly, see my point now?

I see your pont but then I go back to my previous post. even without that helmet on Juggs took a direct blow from the Hulk to the head and that was classic juggs. I have already listed what those fist has done. So I still believe that the real problem that juggs has to worry about is how the Raging Demon attacks your mind. Is it Physical your is it like a normal telepathic attack.

The misogi is more than just a normal concussive blow to what the hulk can achieve, its the full extent of his dark hadou into one blow. It wouldn't be necessarily fatal, but it would at least stun him, or injure him to some extent.

That is still suspect, but The raging demon is not, shin akuma can very well reach the speed at his max, that or an "ashura zenkuu", to warp and execute it, or warp in space.

I won't disagree on whether it can stun him without his helmet it very well could but stunning him isn't beating him.
Not to sound like I'm bashing you man because you are very knowledgeable but you have yet to answer my question on the Raging demon. Does it Pysically attack the mind or is it more likea normal telepathic attack.

Originally posted by newjak86
I won't disagree on whether it can stun him without his helmet it very well could but stunning him isn't beating him.
Not to sound like I'm bashing you man because you are very knowledgeable but you have yet to answer my question on the Raging demon. Does it Pysically attack the mind or is it more likea normal telepathic attack.
Its just mystical in nature, but I can say it attacks all, but not telepathic, it should be treated as mystical,(related to magic), and able to injure.

Do you agree that a stun would allow him to warp him into space then, or execute a demon.

Stop bashing me.

Originally posted by CorderaMitchell
Its just mystical in nature, but I can say it attacks all, but not telepathic, it should be treated as mystical,(related to magic), and able to injure.

Do you agree that a stun would allow him to warp him into space then, or execute a demon.

Stop bashing me.
It could very well injure his mind then but still is only speculation that it can cancel out his Magical enchantment so is inconclusive. If it was like a normal telepathic attack then I would say it would work but since it isn't then it is a possible theory but nothing more.

I do agree that the attack you described attacking him could very well stun him as it has been proven to be possible and then he could warp him into space.

I won't stop Bashing you

I enjoy this, but I'll return you basher, I need to eat and do a lawn, duty calls.

Its beyond telepathic, and can hurt juggs, no different from thors hammer.

Cya C-Master but Thors Hammer has never hurt Juggs though

The energy was magic, did it not affect him at all? Or am I mistaken?

Just keep in mind that the raging demon is beyond telepathic attacks, because it is meant to kill, in all causes. Akuma at his max potential soups it up, and the symbiote even more.

Bye now.

Even though Thor's hammer is magic it has never had an effect on Juggs. He evn took a godblast from it no problems and once again that is classic Juggs 8th Day is at least a 100 times more powerful than him.
The problem is if it is meant to kill then it won't effect juggs because nothing has been known to kill him. He was once stripped down to nothing but a skelton no organs or bones at all and was still moving around like nothing had happened to him.

thors hammer's magic indeed had an effect on juggernaut

in one faceoff, mjolnir flew around the castle they were fighting in and removed juggernaut's inviniciblity for 60 seconds, during which time thor was able to land a few punches

Originally posted by masterbruce
thors hammer's magic indeed had an effect on juggernaut

in one faceoff, mjolnir flew around the castle they were fighting in and removed juggernaut's inviniciblity for 60 seconds, during which time thor was able to land a few punches
Yes but it was under an extreme circumstance that thor has since been unable to duplicate. It didn't remove Juggernaught's invincibility but simply created a vortex around them that cut Juggernaught off from Cyttorak even then he couldn't stop it all. After the 60 seconds though Thor realized he couldn't beat Juggs so he sent him to another world and Juggs conquered that world.

So you are concluding that hitting him into space is the best option, how likely do you see that happening, with akuma's superior speed and warping ability?

It could be a very viable option as his speed isn't that great and from the power you say Akuma posses he should be able to move Juggernauts weight no problem.
Now with the exception of a few theories I feel that I have stopped any real threat akuma posses to harm Juggs i will now go on the offence.
First I will use the symbiote's weakness. The symbiote is very susceptible to sonics and is it's biggest weakness. I will do this by using a move Hulk made famous. When he slaps his hands together he can create a sonic wave that he can do in a relatively calm state. Now Classic Juggs isn't far of from Calm Hulk's strength so he could do this as well but there is a big difference about to take place. 8th day is about 100 times the strength of Classic so his Sonics Clap would be especially devastating. You couldn't outrun it since it would go in all directions. The symbiote becomes weak and so does the host infact they wouldn't be able to move. akuma would be stunned and his ear drums would probably be ruptured as well. while in the state all 8th day would have to do is walk p and crush Akuma's head.

Originally posted by newjak86
It could be a very viable option as his speed isn't that great and from the power you say Akuma posses he should be able to move Juggernauts weight no problem.
Now with the exception of a few theories I feel that I have stopped any real threat akuma posses to harm Juggs i will now go on the offence.
First I will use the symbiote's weakness. The symbiote is very susceptible to sonics and is it's biggest weakness. I will do this by using a move Hulk made famous. When he slaps his hands together he can create a sonic wave that he can do in a relatively calm state. Now Classic Juggs isn't far of from Calm Hulk's strength so he could do this as well but there is a big difference about to take place. 8th day is about 100 times the strength of Classic so his Sonics Clap would be especially devastating. You couldn't outrun it since it would go in all directions. The symbiote becomes weak and so does the host infact they wouldn't be able to move. akuma would be stunned and his ear drums would probably be ruptured as well. while in the state all 8th day would have to do is walk p and crush Akuma's head.
I disagree, a normal host would be weakened akuma is no normal host.

That means he is most attuned to using this symbiote, whats to stop him from warping away, or drilling to the ground?

It's the idea of sonics because it would be able to travel everywhere and it doesn't matter the host because the Symbiote and the Host are almost one in the same now meaning what ever hurts the symbiote hurts the host as well. Plus the effect of having the Symbiote removed stuns and weakens everyone who has it on. Plus if 8th day didn't feel you were stunned enough he could just do it again and and you would be so dazed you wouldn't know what is happeing.

Akuma has a very effective warp move for that.

An island or mountain or city destroying blast would slow him down for sure.

Yes but it wouldn't hurt 8th day but the sonic clap would basically end this fight plus Juggs doesn't tire so he could take everything until he finallt lands one then it's all over.

Originally posted by CorderaMitchell
If this is akuma at his max, he takes it easily, the only problem would be how to be rid of juggernaut, but a raging demon eats the mind, heart, and sould. And a chi blast is no normal damage by any means.

Well, if Ruy would be at his max, he alone is enough to take Shin Akuma down (as we know, Shin Akuma=Akuma at his best). And yes, he could take Juggernat down, Juggs has soul, he wouldn't be able to defend against Akuma, phyisically yes, soul no).

I disagree, he can avoid that move with a warp, akuma has superb speed.

Keep him busy in meleee, symbiote removes helmet, and misogi to stun, SHIN AKUMA, can do this in mere seconds.

One warp and its a ring out, in a pure fight, akuma has a significantly smaller chance of winning.

exactly I will not argue the possible outcome he could very well warp him but it isn't as easy to remove juggs helmet as you would like to think. It has taken powerful blows from Hulk to remove it and many more than one so if you try to get close enoguh to do it you will be out in his range. Plus even though he has super speed it is very hard to out run a sonic slap and even if he does warp to somewhere the sonic effect will still be going on there as well.

In pure phiysical battle, Juggs strenght would overwhelm Shin Akuma. But in fight genreally, Akuma would put Juggs down.

Originally posted by newjak86
exactly I will not argue the possible outcome he could very well warp him but it isn't as easy to remove juggs helmet as you would like to think. It has taken powerful blows from Hulk to remove it and many more than one so if you try to get close enoguh to do it you will be out in his range. Plus even though he has super speed it is very hard to out run a sonic slap and even if he does warp to somewhere the sonic effect will still be going on there as well.

The symbiote is superior to concussive damage, it could do so, its that crafty.

The symbiote is craty but it isn't strong enough to remove the helmet without Akuma getting close enough to try. Also you still have to get pass the sonic clap.

Originally posted by newjak86
The symbiote is craty but it isn't strong enough to remove the helmet without Akuma getting close enough to try. Also you still have to get pass the sonic clap.

True, but keep in mind that a sonic clap wouldn't be used in melee.

Also keep in mind that a super warp will get him near to the helmet just fine, one latch at a time.

There aren't any latches you have to phsically removre the helmet because it stays in place by magic almost of course it's not as strong as the magic powering Juggs though.

In that case the symbiote would disarm it with more trouble, but not too much more because it is living, and would adapt to such a surface and object.

This is fun getting into detail like this, on of the better debates for a while now.

Yes it is but the problem is that the symbiote would have to get close to latch onto the helmet and since a symbiote won't leave a host that means Akuma will have to get close as well and that is not where you want to be because I checked and 8th Day was able to punch through Dimensions as well.

Originally posted by newjak86
Yes it is but the problem is that the symbiote would have to get close to latch onto the helmet and since a symbiote won't leave a host that means Akuma will have to get close as well and that is not where you want to be because I checked and 8th Day was able to punch through Dimensions as well.

You'd be surprised there mate. The symbiote is WELL known for its versatility. It can be fired off at will, and will leave the host on some occasions. This being symbiotic, makes it attuned to the hosts mind, making them work as one. A Shakuestu Gou Hado wave with a distraction, akuma warps behind, then removes the helmes, slowly but surely.

Akuma has too much versatilityy with the symbiote, and that includes a mild warning system,or precognition. He is nigh unhittable.

If he seperates with the Symbiote he then looses all his upgrades because while they are attuned in the mind the power he granted him is gone meaning that his speed and new found strength is gone. Plus seperated it would be even easier to use the sonic clap to take the symbiote down. Since the y are still linked by the mind the symbiote's pain would still be inflicted upon Akuma.

Originally posted by newjak86
If he seperates with the Symbiote he then looses all his upgrades because while they are attuned in the mind the power he granted him is gone meaning that his speed and new found strength is gone. Plus seperated it would be even easier to use the sonic clap to take the symbiote down. Since the y are still linked by the mind the symbiote's pain would still be inflicted upon Akuma.

Not all of the symbiote, ever see Eddie or Cletus use it, it can be fired of as blobs, daggers, axes, etc.

That would be no problem, only a small amount, which is better actually.

I see what your saying but attacks like that won't work since the symbiote by itself wouldn't be strong enough to remove the helmet it would take Akuma basically tugging at it himself for that bad boy to come of in order to do that he would have to stop and be next to juggs and that is bad news for Akuma.
Anyway how did you like my sonic clap strategy.

How resistent is his helmet? Because I think that Akuma can throw Hadokens at his head until it comes off.

Perhaps Hulk was able to punch it off eventually his helmet isn't made of the same stuff as his armor because his armor's metal doesn't posses the anti Mental attack quality but it is still very strong. Anyway Juggs would probably just block it with his hands. Basically to get that helmet off you must get in close which comes at your own risk.

No the symbiote can adhere to any surface, and work from the inside.

Regardless the sonic clap is good.

The xmen have removed that helmet many a time D, but it isn't that easy, but this is Symbiote akuma we're talking about here.

Yes the symbiote can stick to any surface but it in a one on one contest you have to be able to stand there and get close to Juggs without possibly getting crushed. Remeber though that the X-men must work together to take that helmet off they can't do it by themselves because they have to get in close and without other people for distractions they would get murdered.

Akuma is pretty tough and his fighting skill, speed, and teleportation should help him at least. But it will be difficult, Juggs no amature fighter, hes been up agianst people faster than him before.

Yes plus I saved the best part for last my friends.

Originally posted by newjak86
Yes plus I saved the best part for last my friends.

Whats that?

Juggernauts force field. He can summon a force field which has proven impenetrable. He can summon at will and with it in effect Akuma can't even get close to him. All he has to do is drop the force field throw a sonic clap then bring it back up. Akuma's fast but even he will get tired and Juggs doesn't tire at all.

Originally posted by newjak86
Juggernauts force field. He can summon a force field which has proven impenetrable. He can summon at will and with it in effect Akuma can't even get close to him. All he has to do is drop the force field throw a sonic clap then bring it back up. Akuma's fast but even he will get tired and Juggs doesn't tire at all.

Akuma's minature misogi, did a force field in itself.

Warp, space, its a close match.

are you saying that Akuma's miniature misogi can break Juggernaut's shield.

No but put a force field around him, I'll show a pic of it..

The true misogi MAY,but thats suspect.

That could be since nothing has been proven to penetrate that shield when it's up.

yet......LOL

Venom and Juggernaut once fight one on one and Venom hold his own against Juggernaut. So I think Akuma with the Symbiote vs Juggernaut is a tie.

hm

Shin Akuma with symbiote.

shin akuma with a symbiote owns...

Originally posted by paeng
Venom and Juggernaut once fight one on one and Venom hold his own against Juggernaut. So I think Akuma with the Symbiote vs Juggernaut is a tie.
Actually he got his but kicked my friend he basically almost killed Venom.
Sorry CM had to answer to that.
Now Juggs is one of the baddest people alive. Now your argument has always been based on getting his helmet off and hitting Juggs on the head to stun him then teleport him away all the while avoiding sonic claps that go out in all directions that probably could go on for continents in length.. Now even if you manage to get the helmet off there are fundamental flaws here. 8th Day juggs can punch holes through dimensions so even if you teleport him away he will be back in a few seconds. Also if Juggernaut is walking forward then Akuma will not even be able to stun Juggs since when he moves forward no force on Earth can stop him. Plus with his force field up he couldn't even be touched.

Originally posted by newjak86
Actually he got his but kicked my friend he basically almost killed Venom.
Sorry CM had to answer to that.
Now Juggs is one of the baddest people alive. Now your argument has always been based on getting his helmet off and hitting Juggs on the head to stun him then teleport him away all the while avoiding sonic claps that go out in all directions that probably could go on for continents in length.. Now even if you manage to get the helmet off there are fundamental flaws here. 8th Day juggs can punch holes through dimensions so even if you teleport him away he will be back in a few seconds. Also if Juggernaut is walking forward then Akuma will not even be able to stun Juggs since when he moves forward no force on Earth can stop him. Plus with his force field up he couldn't even be touched.

Juggs IS one of the baddest around, but he can't think like akuma can, thats his fatal flaw.
Akuma counters EVERYTHING

Teleports are instantaneous methods of travel, if juggernaut was in space, he could never really accurately generate the motion to punch, and would that dimension even yield to the fighting arena?

True juggernaut is unstoppable, but their is a catch.

His own body, using that against him is a loophole in juggernaut, it is HIS flaw.

If that helmet is off, akuma can generate MASSIVE POWER, enough to at least stun.

The milder version of the misogi generates a field, so even if juggernaut had that field up, he wouldn't be attacking.

Akuma nor juggernaut is no pushover, but akuma has more options, juggernaut would survive, most of akuma's attacks, but akuma has 4 options for every one of juggernauts. Its battle experience.

Originally posted by CorderaMitchell
Juggs IS one of the baddest around, but he can't think like akuma can, thats his fatal flaw.
Akuma counters EVERYTHING

Teleports are instantaneous methods of travel, if juggernaut was in space, he could never really accurately generate the motion to punch, and would that dimension even yield to the fighting arena?

True juggernaut is unstoppable, but their is a catch.

His own body, using that against him is a loophole in juggernaut, it is HIS flaw.

If that helmet is off, akuma can generate MASSIVE POWER, enough to at least stun.

The milder version of the misogi generates a field, so even if juggernaut had that field up, he wouldn't be attacking.

Akuma nor juggernaut is no pushover, but akuma has more options, juggernaut would survive, most of akuma's attacks, but akuma has 4 options for every one of juggernauts. Its battle experience.
Very true my friend but he has shown the ability to control which holes he goes through. So he would reenter the ring.
His ability to move forward being used against aren't a very good record to go by. People who have tried that include Spidey and he simply bounced off. Plus when he is moving no force can stop him that means stun him as well. Once he is moving forward nothing but himself can stop his forward momentum. As for him not being able to Punch in space. He was once elevated by Jean into the air but once again proving unstoppable he continued to walk forward even though he had nothing to walk on.
So once again when he is moving forward he won't be able to be stunnedmeaning that Akuma can't send him into space without getting close and if he gets close to 8th Day Juggs whose punch can rip through demensions isn't a good thing. Plus how would he be able to get close to Juggs if Juggs keeps up the Sonic Claps and don't expect Juggs to tire he doesn't.
(Oh my god I think Galactic has rubbed of on me now I'm typing huge posts)

Juggs can only do one attack at a time though.

If juggs is in pure atmosphere, or in the right location, I don't see him coming back.

Juggernaut shouldn't hit akuma once, he's THAT fast.

Yes he shouldn't be able to hit Akuma but can Akuma out run a sonic Clap that can be felt for extremely long distances forever. I don't think so and once it hits him he will be doomed because even if he could normally stand up afterwards with the symbiote attached to his mind he will be screwed. Simply put once the symbiote goes weak so does the host. With Akuma standing there dazed and hurt from the sonic clap Juggs could take his time lining up a shot that will ear the very molecules that make Akuma apart.
"If juggs is in pure atmosphere, or in the right location, I don't see him coming back."
Juggs is magical in nature and it has always been in his character to do things that aren't easily explained. He could easily move through space if his forward movement was never stopped. Which it wouldn't since it can't. Akuma would still have to get his helmet off while avoiding sonic claps that go in all directions. Even after he gets to the helmet he still has to pull it off which it takes alot of force to remove it while he hopes Juggs is standing there doing nothing even though Juggs would be attacking back. Then he would probably have to power up his strongest attack to simply faze him(Thats only if Juggs isn't moving forward which he hardly ever isn't). Then grab him and transport him into space where Juggs will probably come right back. Plus since if he's moving forward Akuma's attack wouldn't hurt him then Akuma would have to run away by completely changing directions to do it again once again avoiding the Sonic Claps. Even still none of this happens if his force field is up because then he wouldn't even be able to get to his helmet and Juggs could still do the sonic clap.
Sorry an Akuma has to do to much to win by ring out alone and that isn't even a given

Originally posted by newjak86
Yes he shouldn't be able to hit Akuma but can Akuma out run a sonic Clap that can be felt for extremely long distances forever. I don't think so and once it hits him he will be doomed because even if he could normally stand up afterwards with the symbiote attached to his mind he will be screwed. Simply put once the symbiote goes weak so does the host. With Akuma standing there dazed and hurt from the sonic clap Juggs could take his time lining up a shot that will ear the very molecules that make Akuma apart.

Akuma won't be hit by it, because akuma warps at will. He has attacks that destroy meteors and such, he can cancel out that from a distance, he has many types of offense here.


Originally posted by newjak86
Juggs is magical in nature and it has always been in his character to do things that aren't easily explained. He could easily move through space if his forward movement was never stopped. Which it wouldn't since it can't. Akuma would still have to get his helmet off while avoiding sonic claps that go in all directions. Even after he gets to the helmet he still has to pull it off which it takes alot of force to remove it while he hopes Juggs is standing there doing nothing even though Juggs would be attacking back. Then he would probably have to power up his strongest attack to simply faze him(Thats only if Juggs isn't moving forward which he hardly ever isn't). Then grab him and transport him into space where Juggs will probably come right back. Plus since if he's moving forward Akuma's attack wouldn't hurt him then Akuma would have to run away by completely changing directions to do it again once again avoiding the Sonic Claps. Even still none of this happens if his force field is up because then he wouldn't even be able to get to his helmet and Juggs could still do the sonic clap.
Sorry an Akuma has to do to much to win by ring out alone and that isn't even a given

If his helmet is off, than juggernaut would take some damage. His helmet can easily be taken off by akuma, that I know, considering the symbiote being able to weave in and out, being malleable like he is.

Juggernaut could only hope to stalemate him, if a raging demon is planted on him, it would do at LEAST considerable damage, Juggernaut is immune to the outside, not the inside.

He is immune to many things my friend I will get some scans for you soon just hold up. And the scans I will be showing are of Classic 8th Day is somewhere around 100times that strong. Plus taking the helmet off isn't as easy as simply having the Symbiote grab unto it and pulling it off. It is basically held on by a small magical field not as strong as the rest of Juggs but still very hard to overcome. So to remove it would take Akuma getting in close and trying to remove it himself. Which then he falls into my previous post of how will he do it when so many things would have to go right and even then it not a guaranteed victory where in my post it shows a very easy way for Juggs to beat him. He simply hits him with a sonic clap he can keep doing it until he he hits with one. Akuma can't dodge forever. Then once he's stunned one punch will destroy Akuma.

Juggernaut isn't immune to his mind and soul, to shut him down using his mind, is what makes him beatable.

The sonic clap, if akuma teleports away, would he keep doing it?

Akuma can slow him down, by simply blowing him under water.

Either way juggernaut CAN have his helmet removed by Akuma, with the symbiote, we are arguing akuma at his max right?

http://img228.imageshack.us/img228/7766/oneshot17qn.jpg
http://img307.imageshack.us/img307/562/ncstj16vg.jpg
These are the first scans that I have right now I will post more. Anyway the first one shows him magically being stripped of all his flesh and still going on. The second one was because I thougt it looked cool and still showed my point.
Anyway yes he has fought Venom before so he knows the symbiotes weakness and would use the Sonic Clap as much as needed. Also you haven't told me whether the raginf demon attacks the mind physically or like a normal telepathic attack. If it is Mytsical in nature then it most likely won't work. Plus it still would be hard to simply have the symbiote remove the helmet without Akuma geting close as well which puts him in reach. Which is not want Akuma wants. Plus I doubt it will effect his soul since he has taken the attacks of the things that should have destroyed him completely without so much as a scratch. Also this all is a mute point if Juggs has his shield up then Akuma won't even be able to get to the Helmet. Plus it doesn't matter if his Helmet is on or not it has nothing to do with his durability. The only reason I sai it could stun him for a second is that if he isn't moving forward then it has been proven you can daze Juggs somewhat if he is moving then your doomed.

Fricken cool pic.

Yes the raging demon is a most powerful attack meant to kill, it isn't physical. I told you about it defeating an IMMORTAL cosmic character gill remember? It attacks the soul AND mind, so juggernaut is like a normal man in his soul, THATS a weakness.

With his symbiote, Akuma has a living armor, Shin Akuma vs. 8th day would be a stalemate, but since Shin Akuma has more options, (symbiotes can get into peoples minds too), is why I think he has an okay chance of winning.

Neither are weak, but its a stalemate, at least.

Yes at the very least it is a stalemate but allow me to show you one last pic:
http://img307.imageshack.us/img307/2055/avengers241ij.jpg
One again this is Classic 8th Day is 100 times stronger. It shows and states his only weakness is attacking his mind so I would think his soul is also protected by Cyttorak. This pic is of him fighting other Exemplars people also powered by cosmic enetities and Juggs is far stronger then any of them. Only by removing his helmet do they have a chance and look what it took to remove that helmet. and with his 100 times power that helmet would be even harder to remove.
Also then the Raging Demon is meant to do nothing but kill then it wouldn't work on Juggs since Juggs is all but proven to be beyond death.
Also if his force field is up this fight is over and Akuma has no chance.

The raging demon doesn't kill by simple terms, and it isn't said if juggernaut is protected by soul.

So he's absorbing hits here, and the forcefield is his best bet.
Realize that he isn't strategic enough to even begin to attack and put the shield up.

All points reviewed, its at least a stalemate, if we knew the power upgrade of the symbiote, akuma would have it, but since its speculation...

Yeah but Juggs does have the symbiote's main weakness in a large supply of power that could be a determining factor in any fight. Also that pic states that Jugg's only weakness is attacks to the mind so I'm assuming that since that is his only weakness then his soul is safe plus I thought it was cool.

I don't think that juggs is invurnerable to his very SPIRIT and soul, phoenix atttakcs the soul and phoenix would take care of juggs.

Keep in mind that SHIN AKUMA at his best, would warp all day long, unless juggernaut becomes fast and smart, sakuma isn't being touched.

The only reason that the Phoenix can harm him is because she is beyond Cyttorak's power if you aren't above him you aren't hurting Juggs.
He can Warp all day long but eventually he will tire Juggs doesn't tire. He doesn't need to eat or sleep his enchantment completely sustains him. So even if he can warp all day how will he be fairing in two weeks or two hundred years.

Shin Akuma tire from warping?

He's the master, he hurts cosmic gods.

He can do that all day, but the symbiote is speculation.

I wonder what it looks like???

I'm not saying tiring from one day but can he keep it up for months years centuries millenia Juggs can.
On Akuma I don't know.

Akuma wouldn't warp THAT long, if anything someone would walk away at that point, lol.

Probably thats what would happen or they would enter into a partnership.

Imagine that, who do you think they could take??

Please both 8th Day and Akuma enhanced with Symbiote the whole Earth would fall as along as they took Dr. Strange first.

You think they'd beat savage hulk with little problems?

Please Classic Juggs can go toe to toe with Savage Hulk and in their vs Thread it has been proven to be about a tie so 8th day 100 times stronger would murder him.

Maestro Hulk?

Please Maestro Hulk is only max four times stronger than normal Hulk 8th day is 100 times more powerful I mean the power to rip through Dimensions is no laughing matter especially when you are on the receiving end of it.

You know, Im gonna venture out on the left limb and say he loses at Ryu, because I think the symbiote would actually interfere with the Dark Hado. I think the Symbiote just agments someones natural abilites, like their strength, or if they have been in chemical accidents, their senses. But Akuma power comes from training, and from evil. Its kind of like a symbiote on its own, so the Dark Hadou would interfere with the Symbiote, trying to vei for control over the body. There isnt anything written down that says it works like that, but we probably wont know unless it actually happens.

I'm not sure, I think he said akuma was getting stronger without a doubt.

if ryu is fighting at his best showing akuma will have a lot of trouble.I am not saying he will lose,but it sure will be the hardest fight for him.

Its just plain ryu, I don't think he's beating shin akuma, nonless with a symbiote, thats not happening, yet.

Symbiote akuma is worse than cyber akuma.

shin akuma himself is stronger than cyber akuma,but if ryu fought with all his power he could at least do more trouble than jugg

Yea but 8th day jugg is 100x stronger than normal juggernaut, and juggernaut is unstoppable, physically.

Do you see where I'm getting at, we were talking about a different juggernaut,sorry.