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Arguably the two most powerful Master and Apprentice brotherhood the galaxy has ever known . . . Planets will shake . . . Stars will shatter (and be chucked around the galaxy) . . . and the galaxy will be torn asunder!

Okay, now that that's overwith, who will win?

I personally think that this would be a very close fight. I believe Sadow may be more powerful than Ulic, but not because of his Star Crushing ability; that is a technique of Sith magic. Opinions?

Star Blows up.

Ragnos and Sadow.

I guess you guys didnt know Sadow isnt Ragnos' apprentice?

Isn't he?

In kotor you can recover naga sadows poison blade and in jedi academy you fight against some girl with marka ragnos's scepter, i know they had weapons but i dont know how good they were with them
but i do know that they were incredibly poweful so ummmmmm.............

im guessing sadow blows up a star killing everyone

before sadow makes a move ragnos already killed them all, including sadow MWAHAHAHAHAHA

I rate Ragnos as the most powerful Sith Lord ever. More powerful then Kun. Sadow I think is near Kun if not more powerful and at least more powerful then Ulic, maybe just barely but still.

However, Exar and Ulic have lightsabers something the two Sith have never seen and would probably shock them. And they work much better as a team. With that said I still think Ragnos and Sadow win but it would be close.

I think Exar and Ragnos are pretty even. But I'd have to say Sadow is a little bit stronger than Qel-Droma, and Ragnos may be as well. If Ragnos could defeat Kun, then he could dispatch Ulic without too much threat, while Sadow held off Kun. But I'd say Exar could take out Sadow with a bit more effort, leaving he and Ragnos to duel to the death.

However, while I think that Ragnos and Naga have slightly more power, the lightsaber technology of the newer Sith would lend to them a more efficient fighting style. The more ancient Siths' swords would prove more cumbersome.

Just for the record, Sadow was NOT Ragnos' apprentice. He was the second most powerful Sith at that time. He and Ludo Kressh rose above all other Sith Lords in the quest to become the next Dark Lord of the Sith. Sadow eventually killed Ludo, making him the next DLOS. He was NOT Ragnos' apprentice.

Ragnos and Sadow would win. Sadow is around as powerful as Exar. Ulic is a little less. Ragnos would kill Ulic and Sadow would hold off/kill Exar until Ragnos helped him. A relativly easy victory.

I doubt it would be easy. While I too think that Ragnos is most powerful, I believe Exar is a close second, with Sadow in third and Ulic very close to him in fouth. He may even be more powerful.

Don't forget, Sadow's Star Crushing ability is just a technique. A difficult technique, but a technique and skill nonetheless. Think of it as the ability to paint somethin very well. Would that help you in a fight? I thought not.

Plus, you underestimate Exar and Ulic.

Originally posted by Darth Windu
I doubt it would be easy. While I too think that Ragnos is most powerful, I believe Exar is a close second, with Sadow in third and Ulic very close to him in fouth. He may even be more powerful.

Don't forget, Sadow's Star Crushing ability is just a technique. A difficult technique, but a technique and skill nonetheless. Think of it as the ability to paint somethin very well. Would that help you in a fight? I thought not.

You could argue that being a very efficient painter will give you wrist strength and a certain level of coordination that could transfer towards a lightsaber duel. Not every ability is specific in and of itself. For example, if a person is athletic, he/she could enjoy marginal success at practically any sport, even without a really refined skillset.

Do we know that his star crushing technique, and all prerequisites thereof would have no indication as to his ability to duel with a lightsaber? Hardly. We can't just assume that Sadow could blow up stars and be a wimp with a saber. Exar could also make a star go supernova.

I would say Sadow and Exar, based on what we know for fact, had similar levels of force prowess. Ulic would most likely be the 4th individual behind the other three. Ragnos is the unknown quantity. If he was at the level of Sadow, Exar, or higher -- which I suspect is definitely possible; then the match would be a relatively easy victory for Ragnos/Sadow.

And why is this even a topic? Ragnos was not Sadow's master.

Okay, get over that fact already. I didn't know about that so get over it. And they don't have to be master/apprentice. Are Luke and Mace? Revan and the Exile?

Anyways, I was not implying that Sadow was weak; I think he's right under Exar, and maybe a bit stronger than Ulic. I was merely saying that a lot of people think that the ability to destroy a star makes someone stronger than anyone else; that was pure assumption you made, and it was wrong.

And about the painter thing; it was just an analogy, I wasn't talking about it literally. That was the first example that came to mind; that the ability to out-paint someone (or in the case, destroy more) does not mean in itself that you can defeat them in a fight. Jeez.

The reason it was even mentioned was because the topic creator made a mention about the "two most powerful master and apprentices". It's important to note that Sadow was never Ragnos' apprentice.



I made no such assumption. I just said you have no idea whether or not his ability to crush a star has an impact on his dueling skill.

For example, someone may say, well your ability to push a crate with force push has no impact inside a duel, but within a duel, you could potentially use force push to defend yourself from an attack. You simply do not know.

This is not an assumption; never once did it mention that Sadow could only crush stars and do nothing else.



Guess what? I treated it as an analogy.

I'm just saying there is no knowledge that you or I have that would DISCOUNT Sadow's ability to crush stars in a lightsaber duel.

It could very well have an impact.

Ok, so you established that you THINK Sadow is right under Exar and better than Ulic, therefore they should win. Right...

Sometimes I feel like I'm debating with a block of wood here. Produce something, instead of assumptions, pointless analogies, and defensive posts.

First off, you can stop with the insults. Did I say anything to you? No I did not. Keep things civil, please. I'd rather not get into an argument; I prefer a debate. I believe you to be competent, and I think you have right ideas, so I won't go any further into this. However, I thinkyou misread every single line you quoted.

I'm sorry I didn't know about that fact of Sadow and Ragnos. But still, it doesn't affect the thread, does it? Let's just drop that point.

I NEVER said that just because Sadow could destroy stars, he was weak. Where did you get that from? I merely stated that just because Sadow has the technique and ability to destroy a star doesn't mean that he is an all powerful Sith and duelist in itself. Nor did I say that this meant he was weak. He was probably a skilled duelist and powerful warrior. I don't know where you get some of this from....

Lastly, this entire forum is based on opinions being supported by facts. It is of my opinion that what I said is true. And I have listed facts why in this and other posts. I think I did in this post. Maybe not.

Anyway, I rspect your opinion and sharp eye, and don't think your insults should make us enemies.

that was bloddy amazing, you two actually had an arguement about somthing (not the best thing to have an arguement about) and did it completly civily, i don't think 'v ever done that, well done 1

by the way i think marka and naga would take this one, good match up though

Yes, I am debating. You have been leveling assumptions, and then when it comes to it, you say I have beem making "wrong" "assumptions":





No, but you are using the fact against him. "Just because he can destroy stars doesn't mean he's an all powerful duelist". It doesn't mean he's a weakling either, but you are ranking him intrinsically lower than Exar simply because you don't know.

I'm tired of people doing this. I don't get where the logic comes from that if you KNOW what an individual has done specifically; then he's somehow more powerful.



What facts? That he isn't all-powerful because he can destroy stars?

That Sadow ranks between Exar and Ulic?

None of those are facts, they are all opinion based and either obvious or unjustifiable.

My qualm with this whole point is that the topic creator doesn't know what the hell he's talking about. He says this is a match up between "masters and apprentices" when they aren't. We also know practically nothing about Ragnos, and very little about Sadow's dueling abilities.

I wonder why so much is being placed on Sadow's shoulders? Ragnos is much more powerful. Sadow was afraid to challenge Ragnos, even when Ragnos was on his deathbed. Because of his fear, he had to fight Ludo Kressh.

Illustrious, I dont know about you, but I know plenty about Ragnos and he wins.

Originally posted by Darth_Glentract
I wonder why so much is being placed on Sadow's shoulders? Ragnos is much more powerful. Sadow was afraid to challenge Ragnos, even when Ragnos was on his deathbed. Because of his fear, he had to fight Ludo Kressh.

Illustrious, I dont know about you, but I know plenty about Ragnos and he wins.

No, I agree with you. It is of my opinion that Ragnos + Sadow > Kun + Droma.

I'm just trying to keep a civil debate, logically bringing up the point that we DON'T know enough about Ragnos, and therefore should not count it against him. However, it seems most people are too interested in peddling their favorite character more than sustaining a fair debate.

I believe it would be a draw sadow would say screw this shit and 'em all up with his starcrushing abillity

Originally posted by Illustrious
No, I agree with you. It is of my opinion that Ragnos + Sadow > Kun + Droma.

I'm just trying to keep a civil debate, logically bringing up the point that we DON'T know enough about Ragnos, and therefore should not count it against him. However, it seems most people are too interested in peddling their favorite character more than sustaining a fair debate.

Where did you learn to debate at, because you're terrible at it. You've successfully irked Darth Windu, who is one of the nicest guys here. You've insulted his opinions, insulted his thread, filled it with your "holier-than-thou" nonsense. If you expect to participate in any kind of civil debate around this forum, you had best square your ass away and learn to treat people with as much respect as they give you. Especially Windu, who is perhaps the most reasonable and civil person we have around at the moment.

Originally posted by Darth_Janus
Where did you learn to debate at, because you're terrible at it. You've successfully irked Darth Windu, who is one of the nicest guys here. You've insulted his opinions, insulted his thread, filled it with your "holier-than-thou" nonsense. If you expect to participate in any kind of civil debate around this forum, you had best square your ass away and learn to treat people with as much respect as they give you. Especially Windu, who is perhaps the most reasonable and civil person we have around at the moment.

I don't like you anymore.

What did I ever do to you?

"who is perhaps the most reasonable and civil person we have around at the moment." - That

Pfft. You were not around at the time of the post. Sue me.

Okay... No wait you'll pay of the money of the Jawa foundation, I won't sue you i'll just name myself minister of financial stuff. We both get a raise

Sounds good to me. Make it so.

Sadow would let his anger cloud his logic and kill them all by blowing up a star

Everyone acts like he blows up stars with a thought. I believe it's a little more involved than that.

And it would hardly matter... Because either Exar or Ulic (probably Exar) did it too

Actually it was hardly a thought. I just read the first comics with Exar in that six comic series and it only takes him a thought and a wave of his hand.

Oh really? Yeah, screw that. NJO Luke and Exar Kun take the munchkin awards.

Seriously. Exar was looking a Vodo's holocron and then Naga is being chased and then he goes something like this, "There is a natural balance of things. (Puts hands in the air, palms open) Things that are balanced. (begins curling hands) But a Sith Lord does not care about these things. (closes them into fist) Stars blows up.

Who are you talking about now? Exar or Sadow? Sadow right? Cause i'm getting confused.

Sadow

Must be nice. If he can do that, why the hell can't he just Force crush the idiots chasing him? Or was that too straightforward?

He has to use his ship to focus the energy so he can destroy the star. he still has the raw energy though.

What is so special about the ship?

I dont know. Exar was also able to destroy a star usuing his ship to ficus it. This is jusst what I've heard though, I havent read those comics.

Originally posted by Darth_Janus
Where did you learn to debate at, because you're terrible at it. You've successfully irked Darth Windu, who is one of the nicest guys here. You've insulted his opinions, insulted his thread, filled it with your "holier-than-thou" nonsense. If you expect to participate in any kind of civil debate around this forum, you had best square your ass away and learn to treat people with as much respect as they give you. Especially Windu, who is perhaps the most reasonable and civil person we have around at the moment.

Is it my fault I don't consider "I don't know what Ragnos has done, therefore X is stronger" or "I am unsure if Sadow's star crushing technique translates into good dueling, therefore it doesn't" good debates?

No. Because it is logical fallacy. I don't care if Jesus himself tries to make that argument. It is a false statement, it does not necessarily correlate into fact.

If that's a "holier than thou nonsense" for holding an opinion that debating is free of logical fallacy, then so be it, I have a "holier than thou" attitude. You my friend, go off reputation, and obviously have no respect for the actual intracacies of debate.

Yes, he can have his opinion, but if he can't logically express it, I will point it out. That sounds very civil to me.

Well, since you seem to appreciate that kind of Jargon.

"Because Exar never ate nacho chips, ergo I say Sadow and Ragnos will win."

Stick that in your pipe and smoke it.

Not many people willingly put themselves in my sights. You must be a slow one.

First off, you sling logical fallacy around like you're some master logician. Watch yourself there. Here's another fallacy term for your collection: Ad Hominem. Personal attack. A taboo in true logical debate. Hypocricy tends to color your argument bad, so I suggest you reconsider your offensive behavior and try and impress us with your personality and your levelheadedness, not your bared teeth and fancy lingo.

Now, I don't go off of reputation. I make a judgment, and I let it stand some scrutiny. If it stands, I keep it. If I rethink the situation or learn something which might change my viewpoint, I do. If I lived for reputation, Vader and Luke would be gods and Ragnos would be nothing. So try and get to knw me better before you go stabbing blindly.

Secondly, your approach is anything but civil. It may seem more mature in that you use "master logician" lingo, but you still need work. So I suggest you put that up your ass and piss off. Oops. Ad hominem.

Originally posted by Darth_Janus
Not many people willingly put themselves in my sights. You must be a slow one.

First off, you sling logical fallacy around like you're some master logician. Watch yourself there. Here's another fallacy term for your collection: Ad Hominem. Personal attack. A taboo in true logical debate. Hypocricy tends to color your argument bad, so I suggest you reconsider your offensive behavior and try and impress us with your personality and your levelheadedness, not your bared teeth and fancy lingo.

No, you must be the slow one to realize I don't care what your reputation is. If you make an inaccurate statement, I WILL point you out for it.

Now, since when is pointing out logical fallacy ad hominem? If that was the case, every police officer on this world would be committing cardinal felonies. You made far more of an effort of ad hominem than I did, because you mentioned me being a "slow one". Speaking of hypocrisy, eh?

I make no effort to impress. Perhaps you need to reconsider. I make the effort to have a logical and reasonable debate. Is thiat too much to ask?

Originally posted by Darth_Janus
Now, I don't go off of reputation. I make a judgment, and I let it stand some scrutiny. If it stands, I keep it. If I rethink the situation or learn something which might change my viewpoint, I do. If I lived for reputation, Vader and Luke would be gods and Ragnos would be nothing. So try and get to knw me better before you go stabbing blindly.

Secondly, your approach is anything but civil. It may seem more mature in that you use "master logician" lingo, but you still need work. So I suggest you put that up your ass and piss off. Oops. Ad hominem.

Yes, because someone who clearly sides with the individual that can't properly hold a logical argument is the "civil one". </sarcasm>

You have everyone of your terminus confused. This isn't some quid pro quo, I'm not trying to exchange my "master logician lingo" for your respect, or to prove my point. If your agument is "I don't know if Sadow's star crushing ability impacts his dueling, ergo it doesn't" I will point it out as the logical fallacy it is.





I also find it very funny you skip over the actual logical part of my argument, and then attack the thing I am hardly even pressing. In case you didn't realise, that is called the "Straw Man" missing the point logical fallacy.

Now, you can either continue to insist on getting educated in "master logician lingo", or you can actually DEBATE the issue presented before you. Your choice, and I really don't care. You're very entertaining. Now sit.

Or you can kiss my ass. My decision to debate I reserve for people who aren't sarcastic pricks. And since that includes you, I guess we won't be having a civil debate. Piss off.

Originally posted by Darth_Janus
Or you can kiss my ass. My decision to debate I reserve for people who aren't sarcastic pricks. And since that includes you, I guess we won't be having a civil debate. Piss off.

Now look at the individual that won't have a "civil and reasonble" debate.

It helps when you don't use everything you say I do wrong, and then try to point me out as a hypocrite. Next!

You've been here for three days. Janus is like the only vet left. I've got a thousand words for you.

Originally posted by Darth_Glentract
You've been here for three days. Janus is like the only vet left. I've got a thousand words for you.



LMAO.

Yeah, because an individual has been here a certain number of days, he is clearly the better logician and debater. You're a joke.

Ohh, honey, dont be mad I posted an image of you on the web. you still love me?

Originally posted by Darth_Glentract
Ohh, honey, dont be mad I posted an image of you on the web. you still love me?

An image that you happen to store in you My Documents folder? Bud, don't let your obsessions get to your head .

You should know I never get mad. But for you two, I have an old CS term for you: g0t r4g3?!

i know you dont. thats why were still in love

Originally posted by Darth_Glentract
i know you dont. thats why were still in love

Heh, when did you break up with Janus?

dont be silly. I've always been with you.

Originally posted by Darth_Glentract
dont be silly. I've always been with you.

Even though I've only been here for three days, huh?

not just on the web

Back to the topic now?

alright honey, we'll talk later.


Anyway, Ragnos was this awsome super-bad dude. Shall I go through the whole routine about how powerful he was? OK.


He had extraordinary physical strength. This is a direct quote, more believable than the one about Tulak in my opinion.

He was a half breed. The fact that a half breed ever became a DLOS is amazing in itself. What makes this evem more amazing is that he ruled for over a hundred years. Thats special even for a purebread sith.

He was feared by Naga Sadow, even on his death bed. The fact that a guy who could destroy stars was afraid of him ever is crazy. That even when he was lying, dying, he was still feared by every Sith in the ENTIRE empire. HOLY CRAP!

Is the only Sith Lord I know of that definatly died of old age. Rare.

Glentract, you're getting a warning for posting an inappropriate picture.

Everyone else, stop the stupid bickering!

does any money come with it?

anyone have anything wrong with my reasons for Ragnos' power?

Originally posted by Darth_Glentract
does any money come with it?

anyone have anything wrong with my reasons for Ragnos' power?

I have no qualms with your reasoning, in fact, I agree with them and commend you for a well put argument.

However, most individuals will simply state that what we have is IMPLIED power, and not actual power, and it is still, after all, impossible to tell which individual was more powerful.

Also, in addition to having extraordinary physical strength, he was also a master of the force.

I agree with Glentract here in Ragnos' power. But Illustrious, I seriously just want to get this overwith, this, err, hostility that you seem to have towards me. Maybe I'm just being sensitive, but I think that saying I don't know waht the hell I'm talking about based on the fact that I didn't know Ragnos and Sadow weren't Master and Apprentice kind of borders on hostile, don't you think? I've tried to tell you that that fact is irrelevant to the thread, and I thank you for pointing out the master/apprentice mistake to me, but you're taking it way too far. You start dissing me because I didn't know that little fact, and act like it makes the thread completely null and void.

Back to Naga Sadow; you seem to have misread, misunderstood, or purposely ignored my last four posts on this matter, so for the last time, listen. I never said, or even implied that Sadow's star destroying ability would mean he is weak in combat. I have absolutely NO idea where you got that from. What I said, if you re-read the posts, was that Sadow's ability was just a technique, and that that technique alone would not affect his combat skills. However, that ability proves that he is well versed in the Sith arts, and obviously would make a dangerous foe. Too complicated for you? If you took a moment to completely read and consider the meaning of the posts instead of scanning it and then making rude comments, I wouldn't even be saying this now. Please don't even repond to this, as your post will most likely just aggravate me more, and have me waste more time arguing.

Despite this, I think you do make good points, and would prefer to have a more civil encounter with you on the next thread.

I have no hostility towards you. I just pointed out the flaw in your argument.

I didn't say you didn't know what you're talking about. I said you made a false conclusion.



You said, and I'll quote it:



Immediately following when you rank Exar above Sadow.

I merely corrected you in saying that it is uncertain that his technique, and the prerequisites thereof, will not help him a duel.

Is that too complicated for you?

Effectively, what you're saying is: "Sadow's starcrushing technique does not translate into good dueling, ergo Exar is better than Sadow."

I corrected the flaw in this, because I said you DO NOT KNOW if his techniques and prerequisites thereof, will have an impact in his fight; AND because the entire conclusion is false. The postulate does not result in the conclusion.

If you rank Exar above Sadow for no particularly reason, all I ask is for you to clearly state you have no reason to believe this other than your gut feeling. I don't want you to spread misnomers across the board any more than there already are.

I never ONCE said that you thought Sadow was weak. I just said your conclusion was not accurate. Get it?

The star crushing technique could involve a lot of push/pull or other Sith force power prerequisites, which could very well come in handy in a duel.



I have no qualm with debating with anybody, provided they remain within the limitations of a good debate. If someone decides to use logical fallacy; I will point it out, that is how I will operate with anyone. I think it is very fair and civil.

Fair enough. I think you have me beat here.

And no, I'm not saying that Exar is better than Sadow because Sadow's ability doesn't translate into dueling ability. I'm merely stating that point because many people believe that the ability to destroy a star, or more accurately manipulate its power, does not necessarily mean that its practitioner is invincible. I think that Sadow would give anyone a run for their money, including Luke (OMG!), Revan (NO!!!), and Kun himself. I believe that Sadow's knowledge of this ability implies a great knowledge of the Sith Arts. However, Exar Kun also possesses this ability, though I believe he utilizes and performs it differently, correct? So, essentially what I am saying is that Sadow's power does not make him invincible. That's it. He would of course had to be incredibly skilled and power to be Marka Ragnos' successor as the Dark Lord, in dueling skill, knowledge of the Force, and raw power. That is all.

I agree with everything you have just said. I would put Exar and Sadow on a similar level, and since Exar is a superior level than Ulic, which we do have evidence for, I would say Sadow is superior to Ulic. If anything, I feel that Sadow has exhibited the same level of destructive abilities with the force, and it is implied that he is a strong and capable Sith Lord in his own right.

It is also heavily implied that Ragnos was far his superior, given that even a dying Ragnos could scare Sadow. Therefore, it is of my opinion that Ragnos is at least a bit better than Naga Sadow.

Given the Sadow is comparable to Exar, who is superior to Ulic, and that Ragnos is likely (though uncertain) superior to Sadow. I would have to give this match to Sadow and Ragnos.

That is, of course, only my take.

And yes, Exar has also made a star go supernova; though I do believe it was different.

Which I agree with. Wow.

One thing though- I was looking at something in the Essential Chronology of Star Wars today to try and pick up something on Ragnos and his time, and according to that, during that Golden Age of the Sith at 5000 B.B.Y., the Jedi had lightsabers. The basic models for lightsabers, with "ammo" packs, and had cables connecting to a fuel belt at their waists. If this is true, then Ragnos and Sadow would have some knowledge of lightsabers, albeit to a much lesser degree than Kun and his compatriot. Some insight onto this would be helpful- I thought lightsabers came after Ragnos and Sadow.

Originally posted by Darth Windu
Which I agree with. Wow.

One thing though- I was looking at something in the Essential Chronology of Star Wars today to try and pick up something on Ragnos and his time, and according to that, during that Golden Age of the Sith at 5000 B.B.Y., the Jedi had lightsabers. The basic models for lightsabers, with "ammo" packs, and had cables connecting to a fuel belt at their waists. If this is true, then Ragnos and Sadow would have some knowledge of lightsabers, albeit to a much lesser degree than Kun and his compatriot. Some insight onto this would be helpful- I thought lightsabers came after Ragnos and Sadow.

We know Ragnos and Sadow used Sith Swords. The dates and facts around that era are hazy. I've heard that Ragnos was 5200 BBY; so perhaps Lightsabers as we know them are rather new, and was relatively foreign to Ragnos.

We see in KotOR and JK:A that a lightsaber and sith sword are comparable, and they can be used almost interchangably.

In fact, personally, I would rather have a sword that had lightning rather than a lightsaber. I assume that for JEDI, the purpose is to maintain order and peace for the Republic, and it is easier to do that without spooking people with a 40 inch sword clipped to your waist.

For my theory, I don't feel that swords are obsolete; I think they were replaced in FUNCTIONALITY by the easier to carry and wield lightsabers. Would this necessarily impact this dream match up of Kun/Ulic vs. Marka/Naga? I don't think so. But it is interesting to note.

Exar had a duel-bladed LIGHTSABER, and Ulic had a lightsaber, while Marka and Naga used swords; it's an interesting matchup indeed.

I agree. So Ragnos and Sadow had new lightsabers in their time, but not personally, so the technology was all but story and myth seeing as how the Sith didn't have contact with Jedi for millenia. So its Ragnos with his Dark Sith Sword and Sadow with his sword, against Exar's double-bladed lightsaber ad Ulic's lightsaber. No, it won't dramatically affect the outcome of the duel, but I think it will give Kun and his apprentice somewhat of an advantage.

Marka did have a rather cheap scepter also. And I don't know exactly how much of an advantage lightsabers have over Sith Swords.

You hit the nail on the head when you said that the Sith didn't have contact with Jedi for millenia.

The Jedi and Sith used to be one entity, and then after the schism, they went their seperate ways.

The Sith came up with Swords, the Jedi with Lightsabers. Remember that the Sith did practically die out by the time Exar and Ulic were around, and Exar and Ulic were first trained as JEDI padawans, who later fell to the darkside (Ulic was later reconverted). So the issue of them using lightsabers may be just for familiarity.

I see swords and lightsabers being parallel, not with one being dramatically more effective than the other.

The issue is that lightsabers have become more refined because the Jedi Order has continued after the Sith Order fell apart; but in general, I don't see a huge advantage gained either way.

I agree.

Good that we can actually agree .

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Wow, the Sith are among us.