Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.

Discuss (by such i refer to Bin Laden,Abu Hamza etc)

Oh, Lord (no pun intended), here we go....

religeon forum

Originally posted by Deano
religeon forum

opps we should construct a Conspiricy forum for you and Novo,besides I refer to Abu Hamza and Bin Laden etc

Originally posted by Grand Moff Gav,
opps we should construct a Conspiricy forum for you and Novo,besides I refer to Abu Hamza and Bin Laden etc

Got a question for you. Did you intentially put the "," in your username? If so, your sig needs it, too, I would think.

Originally posted by botankus
Got a question for you. Did you intentially put the "," in your username? If so, your sig needs it, too, I would think.

I changed my name one but wanted to go back,my sig has it just zoom in.

Originally posted by Grand Moff Gav,
opps we should construct a Conspiricy forum for you and Novo,besides I refer to Abu Hamza and Bin Laden etc then you should have titled it otherwise..
something like: Is the islam responsible for terrorism?

or someting like that...
and to be clear..as far as i know...originaly there was no such point as a'holy war' in islam dogmatics (sorry if used wrong terms)

Grand Moff Gav,

Its not the Religion, its the follower..
Anything can be perverted for an agenda, and often is.

Originally posted by Sadako of Girth
Grand Moff Gav,

Its not the Religion, its the follower..
Anything can be perverted for an agenda, and often is.

I dont belive that Islam is an evil religion I was just wondering what people think about it.

Originally posted by Sadako of Girth
Grand Moff Gav,

Actually, you would address him as:

Grand Moff Gav,,

lol True that..

Originally posted by botankus
Actually, you would address him as:

Grand Moff Gav,,

*shakes fist in a rather futile gesture*

well, if that is the mentallity then i guess catholicism is also the cause of terrorism (i.r.a.) so lets shut them down as well. oh but thats different though, right?

Originally posted by PVS
well, if that is the mentallity then i guess catholicism is also the cause of terrorism (i.r.a.) so lets shut them down as well. oh but thats different though, right?

in my opinion neither is the cause of terrorism

thats fine, but you assume the opinion of many in that first post, and you are correct in that assumption. so that goes to them

Originally posted by PVS
thats fine, but you assume the opinion of many in that first post, and you are correct in that assumption. so that goes to them

i knew someone would think i was anti-islam i should have put more down,ahh well

No, Islam is not the cause of terror. People are. Misguided people, putting their message across (if they have one) in a terrible, reprehensible way. So says I.

Originally posted by Grand Moff Gav,
for the first time we agree on somthing

tell that to religeous people. what will they say to you? they will ridicule you and treat you like shit. because they cant understand or accept your point of view,because they are brainwashed. another example is me and some others talking about the global conspiracy. we get treated different on here and made fun of. same thing.
expand your mind further. We can accept the prison or we can walk out to freedom

deano, must you pollute every thread with your off-topic global conspiracy brainfarts? i thought you outgrew this.

Originally posted by PVS
deano, must you pollute every thread with your off-topic global conspiracy brainfarts? i thought you outgrew this.

what bit dont you agree on?

it doesnt matter what i or anyone agrees or disagrees on.
look at the title of this thread and please answer "how is my statement on topic?"

Originally posted by PVS
it doesnt matter what i or anyone agrees or disagrees on.
look at the title of this thread and please answer "how is my statement on topic?"

talk about islam then

Religion is used for terrorism. Most religions, including Christianity and Islam are ideologies, much like communism, capitalism, functionalism, Fascism etc.

When you mix politics and religion it becomes such ideology, and thus is open to critisism. Tip toeing around it to be politically correct is waste of time.

tip toeing is bad. open mindedness is good.
people play a double-opinion game with regards to this topic.
with scrutiny of islam, its "they are evil bastards! we cant dillute the issue with PC nonesense" and then onto the rebuttal of "all religions have corrupt followers", the answer then switches to "you cant single out *insert other religion here* because thats not fair"

not aimed at you lil b., i know exactly what you mean.
i just see this double standard alot and think it needs addressing.
whats good for the goose is good for the gander, same for religious fanatics.

what about terrorist groups that aint of Islamic faith, how are they gonna fit into all this?

Originally posted by PVS
tip toeing is bad. open mindedness is good.
people play a double-opinion game with regards to this topic.
with scrutiny of islam, its "they are evil bastards! we cant dillute the issue with PC nonesense" and then onto the rebuttal of "all religions have corrupt followers", the answer then switches to "you cant single out *insert other religion here* because thats not fair"

not aimed at you lil b., i know exactly what you mean.
i just see this double standard alot and think it needs addressing.
whats good for the goose is good for the gander, same for religious fanatics.


Indeed.

Then again, generalisation of people is different. I would never say that all Nazis were bad, because I can stake my life on it that not all of them were bad - in Eastern Europe, many Nazies were killed by their own because they dropped their weapons and refused to shoot civilians.

However, much like Islam, Christianity and Judaism, Nazism is something Nazis DO.
Islam is something Muslims do, Christianity is something Christians do, and Judaism is something Jews do - it is not the state of mind - these ideologies are what those people DO.

Thus, it is not the people who are the bad - it is the ideology (Nazism) and Religion (Islam, Christianity, Judaism, etc etc etc.) which are corrupt.

Saying that either religion is good, but that people make it bad is short sighted and it lacks much logic.

With or without religion you are going to have good people doing good things and bad people doing bad things. But for good people to do bad things - for that you need a religion, and or extreame ideology.

Many people look at this from a ''politicaly correct' perspective as opposed to the logical one and looking for the ''bad'' in the wrong place.

i see it more as this:

religious fanatacism doesnt make good people do bad things.
its takes away restraint and gives evil people an excuse to do evil things.

SS: we were only following orders
Terrorists: we were only following the kuran

granted, a kind of fever sweeps over people and twists their minds in an environment of extreme idealism, but i think its not that they were good to begin with, but that in a restrained environment they feel obligated to remain restrained. in america, im sickened to hear an opinion like "we should just nuke all those f***ing arabs", but that opinion is out there and in abundance.
i think to myself "what if it was up to them?" i dont think a good person would suggest this, but yet here they are, living among us. they are neighbors, coworkers, even family. what if the shit hit the fan at home and all restraint went out the window. would they be any better than a terrorist or nazi then? i dont think so. a great literary example would be 'lord of the flies'.

take a racist. on his/her own, in an environment of restraint, i doubt that they would grab a rope and go out for a night of linching. however put them in a large group of people who feel the same hate, and they feed off of eachother.
the mob mentallity grows exponentially because there is no sense of wrongdoing (someone there to say "this is wrong" and no sense of consequence (someone to say "im gonna report you to the authorities".

when all sense of restraint goes out the window, those who are not truly grounded in moral values easily go mad. we see this in war in other nations and we see this in incidents at home. whether it be a group of kids killing a homeless person or a soldier raping a civilian.

unfortunately, it leads to generalisation, because the actions of a few speak far louder than the feelings of remorse from the majority who find such action to be horrible. so in the end, everybody is screwed.

is islam the cause of terrorism?

uuuhhh...no

I understand, but I disagree.

From where Im standing, what you are saying is pretty much like saying - ''Nazism is a good thing, but its used as an excuse by Hitler to do bad things''

With which I do not agree, evidently.

Lets take some quotes from the Quran -

008.012
YUSUFALI: Remember thy Lord inspired the angels (with the message): "I am with you: give firmness to the Believers: I will instil terror into the hearts of the Unbelievers: smite ye above their necks and smite all their finger-tips off them."
PICKTHAL: When thy Lord inspired the angels, (saying): I am with you. So make those who believe stand firm. I will throw fear into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Then smite the necks and smite of them each finger.
SHAKIR: When your Lord revealed to the angels: I am with you, therefore make firm those who believe. I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them.

002.191
YUSUFALI: And slay them wherever ye catch them, and turn them out from where they have Turned you out; for tumult and oppression are worse than slaughter; but fight them not at the Sacred Mosque, unless they (first) fight you there; but if they fight you, slay them. Such is the reward of those who suppress faith.
PICKTHAL: And slay them wherever ye find them, and drive them out of the places whence they drove you out, for persecution is worse than slaughter. And fight not with them at the Inviolable Place of Worship until they first attack you there, but if they attack you (there) then slay them. Such is the reward of disbelievers.
SHAKIR: And kill them wherever you find them, and drive them out from whence they drove you out, and persecution is severer than slaughter, and do not fight with them at the Sacred Mosque until they fight with you in it, but if they do fight you, then slay them; such is the recompense of the unbelievers

009.005
YUSUFALI: But when the forbidden months are past, then fight and slay the Pagans wherever ye find them, an seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem (of war); but if they repent, and establish regular prayers and practise regular charity, then open the way for them: for Allah is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful.
PICKTHAL: Then, when the sacred months have passed, slay the idolaters wherever ye find them, and take them (captive), and besiege them, and prepare for them each ambush. But if they repent and establish worship and pay the poor-due, then leave their way free. Lo! Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.
SHAKIR: So when the sacred months have passed away, then slay the idolaters wherever you find them, and take them captives and besiege them and lie in wait for them in every ambush, then if they repent and keep up prayer and pay the poor-rate, leave their way free to them; surely Allah is Forgiving, Merciful

You can read all of the quran translation here -http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/quran/

Now lets check out the Bible - here is the site with all the injustices, contradictions etc etc etc - http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/index.html




And this is percisely why I dont agree with you - it is NOT the people, it is the ideology. Ideology is why people kill, religion is why people murder and torture - a fear of a higher power, a command from a higher power, a fear of burning in hell - submission to the higer power - god.

After being in America, i understand the frustration many have with the Christians - but it is not them that are the problem, it is the ideology. Christians are people, just like Muslims are, and the GREAT majority of Christians and Muslims are great people, it is the IDEOLOGY they follow that is presenting the problem.

Muslims believe that Quran is a DIRECT command and word of god, making it all that more valid than the bible (which has been re-written fifteen million times over and over and over again)

Nazis, Communists, Neo-conservatives, religious extreamists follow an ideology.

Political ideology is NO different to that of religion - and just like you get to critique the politics, you should critique the religion.

USA which holds itself on such a high moral ground still uses bible when mentioning the word state (???) and as i said before, once you mix the state and the religion, the religion is no longer a personal, its collective ideology and thus open for critisism.

bad interpretation...im not sure how you gathered that
what i mean is simply that in an extreme environment of idealistic fanaticism, and when normal restraints are lifted, this is the result. there are potential nazis and terrorists all around us. the only thing that keeps them from losing it is the restraints of society....a kind of posative brainwashing if you will.

Originally posted by PVS
bad interpretation...im not sure how you gathered that
what i mean is simply that in an extreme environment of idealistic fanaticism, and when normal restraints are lifted, this is the result. there are potential nazis and terrorists all around us. the only thing that keeps them from losing it is the restraints of society....a kind of posative brainwashing if you will.

Oh I agree.

People who are drawn to do things like terrorism and slaughter, racism and discrimination already had those pre-conceptions, and the ideology gave the excuse.

Sorry, this just makes me laugh. http://www.carcosa.de/images/mygodcan.gif

As already stated by PVS and Milla more or less, you've gotta feel sorry for those peacefully following their religion who relentlessly condemn the actions of terrorists. These people are gonna get backlash for any horrific deed committed by their religious alikes.

Sad really. I know a couple of Christians (yeah, just a couple haha) who are great people. When an insane Christian goes bombing someone (Bush for example) in the name of God, they tend to take the standpoint of "Well where are you getting all this? Because I'm sure God doesn't give that kind of order."

I believe Christianity/Catholicism is a ludicrous belief anyway, but if people wanna follow it, fine. As goes with any religion.

As Milla said (and I agree), people mostly already have these ideas of mass genocide or terrorism, they just use the ideology as a plead insanity card. I think everyone has a right to believe what they want. If you believe I should be killed because I live, look or act a certain way, fine. I'll debate it to the death, but fine. It's when those beliefs are acted upon that it becomes trouble.

I'm sure there are loads of people in these terrorist groups or communities that think the same way, yet have never killed a soul.

If you believe westerners should die, but never act on it or influence others to, can't say I have too much of a problem with that. I think of many people I'd enjoy murdering, I'm entitled to. As long as I don't act on it or influence someone to, I'm not doing anything wrong.

It's when beliefs cross over into drastic action, that problems arise.

Clearly.

Apologies if that's all been said, just chipping in.

-AC

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
As Milla said (and I agree), people mostly already have these ideas of mass genocide or terrorism, they just use the ideology as a plead insanity card.


but that was MY point! crybaby

(Credited to PVC Incorporated)

-AC

Yes.

Before Islam no terrorist ever walked the Earth. Clearly we must abolish Islam.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
(Credited to PVC Incorporated)

-AC

thanks AF

People who say yes don't know anything about history. Islam is a peaceful religion and yes they had a violent past but what major religion has not had a violent past. Christianity had a more violent past then Islam. No you can't get rid of islam its as big or bigger then Christianity now.

oops musta forgot the Heavy Sarcasm tag

Originally posted by Grand Moff Gav,
Discuss (by such i refer to Bin Laden,Abu Hamza etc)

Yes.

money and greed is the cause of terrorism

Different opinions are.

Islam is not the "cause" of Terrorism - Religion as a whole, or different political views, (often tied together with Religion), are, in general, the "cause" of Terrorism.

religion is not but oil is.

Religion is far much more responsible then oil is. Religion has always been an excuse for people to kill others in one way or another. Every religion has been at one time. Still its just an excuse not the cause.

Originally posted by ZoSo
Islam is not the "cause" of Terrorism - Religion as a whole, or different political views, (often tied together with Religion), are, in general, the "cause" of Terrorism.

dontgetit

Originally posted by lil bitchiness
dontgetit

You said ''islam is not the cause of terrorism'' then you said ''religion as a whole is''

What is Islam but religion?

nope, it all comes down to the oil

Originally posted by cking
nope, it all comes down to the oil

There have been acts of terror long before oil was any concern.

Originally posted by lil bitchiness
You said ''islam is not the cause of terrorism'' then you said ''religion as a whole is''

What is Islam but religion?

What was meant was:
Islam itself is not the "cause" of Terrorism.

Originally posted by Lana
There have been acts of terror long before oil was any concern.

Agreed.

Religion, regardless of what it is, was the cause of terror at some point.

This politically correct bullshit is getting tiresome. Christianity and Islam are no better than each other - refer to the cartoon i posted on previous page.

Yes they are no better, but neither one of them is responsible for terrorism. The first thing that caused an act of terrorism is like the first thing that caused a war. Somebody had a different opinion on something and wanted to make the others know he was right. He used violence.

Originally posted by lil bitchiness
Sorry, this just makes me laugh. http://www.carcosa.de/images/mygodcan.gif

Originally posted by Fishy
Yes they are no better, but neither one of them is responsible for terrorism. The first thing that caused an act of terrorism is like the first thing that caused a war. Somebody had a different opinion on something and wanted to make the others know he was right. He used violence.

Not by todays deffinition of terrorism, its not.

My point never was that they exclusivly were the cause of terrorism, perhaps you should read all my replies in this thread.

The point made was that ideology creates terrorism. Political ideology. Religions are ideologies. When religion is tied with the state, then it becomes religious and political ideology - and its why people do things that they do.

Islam, Christianity and the rest are as much of ideologies as are communism, fashism, functionalism, etc etc etc.

I think the u.s or other countries did som hanky panky in secret to the middle east that the media never tells.

Todays defintion has not always been right. The romans terrorised much of the world but were never seen as terrorist by historians because they also fought normal wars. Terrorism is redifined everytime times changes. Terrorism as we know it now hasn't been around that long. Earliest I know of is WWII and that had nothing to do with religion just politics.

Still it happened before then just in different ways, and less known because is a long time ago.

true

Originally posted by cking
I think the u.s or other countries did som hanky panky in secret to the middle east that the media never tells.

Are you like 10 years old?

nope, you are way off

not by much

Religion is not the reason for terrorist attacks, it's only an excuse the terrorists use. Nothing more.

they will in every way possible

Originally posted by BackFire
Religion is not the reason for terrorist attacks, it's only an excuse the terrorists use. Nothing more.


It's just the way they're brought up......

Originally posted by PVS
i see it more as this:

religious fanatacism doesnt make good people do bad things.
its takes away restraint and gives evil people an excuse to do evil things.

SS: we were only following orders
Terrorists: we were only following the kuran

granted, a kind of fever sweeps over people and twists their minds in an environment of extreme idealism, but i think its not that they were good to begin with, but that in a restrained environment they feel obligated to remain restrained. in america, im sickened to hear an opinion like "we should just nuke all those f***ing arabs", but that opinion is out there and in abundance.
i think to myself "what if it was up to them?" i dont think a good person would suggest this, but yet here they are, living among us. they are neighbors, coworkers, even family. what if the shit hit the fan at home and all restraint went out the window. would they be any better than a terrorist or nazi then? i dont think so. a great literary example would be 'lord of the flies'.

take a racist. on his/her own, in an environment of restraint, i doubt that they would grab a rope and go out for a night of linching. however put them in a large group of people who feel the same hate, and they feed off of eachother.
the mob mentallity grows exponentially because there is no sense of wrongdoing (someone there to say "this is wrong" and no sense of consequence (someone to say "im gonna report you to the authorities".

when all sense of restraint goes out the window, those who are not truly grounded in moral values easily go mad. we see this in war in other nations and we see this in incidents at home. whether it be a group of kids killing a homeless person or a soldier raping a civilian.

unfortunately, it leads to generalisation, because the actions of a few speak far louder than the feelings of remorse from the majority who find such action to be horrible. so in the end, everybody is screwed. Originally posted by PVS
bad interpretation...im not sure how you gathered that
what i mean is simply that in an extreme environment of idealistic fanaticism, and when normal restraints are lifted, this is the result. there are potential nazis and terrorists all around us. the only thing that keeps them from losing it is the restraints of society....a kind of posative brainwashing if you will. [/QUOTE
Very good points. I'm guessing you subscribe to the control theory, where people must be restricted and socialized such that they don't allow their baser instincts to drive them to do harm. With all the socialization and indoctrination that people are subjected to, it seems peer pressure is even more powerful, and is often all the excuse a dormant criminal needs to ignore the law and do harm.

terrorists simply want the oil, but using bottle rockets against us won't work.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
As already stated by PVS and Milla more or less, you've gotta feel sorry for those peacefully following their religion who relentlessly condemn the actions of terrorists. These people are gonna get backlash for any horrific deed committed by their religious alikes.

Sad really. I know a couple of Christians (yeah, just a couple haha) who are great people. When an insane Christian goes bombing someone (Bush for example) in the name of God, they tend to take the standpoint of "Well where are you getting all this? Because I'm sure God doesn't give that kind of order."

I believe Christianity/Catholicism is a ludicrous belief anyway, but if people wanna follow it, fine. As goes with any religion.

As Milla said (and I agree), people mostly already have these ideas of mass genocide or terrorism, they just use the ideology as a plead insanity card. I think everyone has a right to believe what they want. If you believe I should be killed because I live, look or act a certain way, fine. I'll debate it to the death, but fine. It's when those beliefs are acted upon that it becomes trouble.

I'm sure there are loads of people in these terrorist groups or communities that think the same way, yet have never killed a soul.

If you believe westerners should die, but never act on it or influence others to, can't say I have too much of a problem with that. I think of many people I'd enjoy murdering, I'm entitled to. As long as I don't act on it or influence someone to, I'm not doing anything wrong.

It's when beliefs cross over into drastic action, that problems arise.

Clearly.

Apologies if that's all been said, just chipping in.

-AC

There are also plenty of potentially destructive urges and drives that don't involve any specific, targeted hatred or ideal, and they are harmless as long as the individual chooses not to act on it. These are the basic reasons for socialization in the first place, and many societies still discourage the discussion or acknowledgment of the drives of violence, sex, etc. More people should realize that not only is it okay to think about such things, but that people should be encouraged to act on these urges in a controlled environment, either in a form that is constructive (sublimation) or just harmless. Violent entertainment is believed by some to relieve aggression, and it's pretty commonly believed that masturbation and whatever other solo sexual activities one might engage in relieve sexual urges temporarily. The continuing instruction repress such urges and keep them bottled up is destructive to individuals and society at large, because it leaves people unprepared to deal with their urges and liable to let it out in unexpected and harmful ways.

People often claim that education is the key to eliminating racism and intolerance for other cultures. This is only partially true, if at all. Aggression and the need to dominate are a natural part of the human psyche. Racism, sexism, homophobia, nationalism, etc. are generally just excuses to focus that aggression. Tribalism exists on every conceivable level. People get into fist fights merely because they favor different sports teams; people get into heated arguments (not arguments so much as insult-fests) based on their preference for one movie, TV show, video game platform, etc. over another; children tease other children for the slightest perceivable difference. The drive for this is never going to change. All we can do is educate people in such a way as to discount the influence of illogical and ultimately destructive institutions such as religion, oppressive government, and misplaced blame, and also to allow people to relieve their natural urges in harmless or constructive ways.

Anyone still readin'?

ok lets run this one more time, is it the terrorist that want oil, and bottle rockets??? what are they gonna teach the world Newtons law of motion

no, the terrorists don't have nuclear weapons so they use cheap firecrackers against u.s troops. Bottle rockets only cost $3.00

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
As already stated by PVS and Milla more or less, you've gotta feel sorry for those peacefully following their religion who relentlessly condemn the actions of terrorists. These people are gonna get backlash for any horrific deed committed by their religious alikes.

Sad really. I know a couple of Christians (yeah, just a couple haha) who are great people. When an insane Christian goes bombing someone (Bush for example) in the name of God, they tend to take the standpoint of "Well where are you getting all this? Because I'm sure God doesn't give that kind of order."

I believe Christianity/Catholicism is a ludicrous belief anyway, but if people wanna follow it, fine. As goes with any religion.

As Milla said (and I agree), people mostly already have these ideas of mass genocide or terrorism, they just use the ideology as a plead insanity card. I think everyone has a right to believe what they want. If you believe I should be killed because I live, look or act a certain way, fine. I'll debate it to the death, but fine. It's when those beliefs are acted upon that it becomes trouble.

I'm sure there are loads of people in these terrorist groups or communities that think the same way, yet have never killed a soul.

If you believe westerners should die, but never act on it or influence others to, can't say I have too much of a problem with that. I think of many people I'd enjoy murdering, I'm entitled to. As long as I don't act on it or influence someone to, I'm not doing anything wrong.

It's when beliefs cross over into drastic action, that problems arise.

Clearly.

Apologies if that's all been said, just chipping in.

-AC

yes alpha. it has been horrible for me, i study in usa right now. i am doing high school, i am a muslim.. and sometimes people think that i am a terrorist myself. the bombings in london were tragic, but i cant do more than just say that these people are terrorist and they are self-proclaimed muslims.. islam doesnt say that killing an infidel sends a muslim directly to heaven, it is the illiterate people in muslim countries that suit the religion for themselves and try to misguide people into thinking that who ever is not a muslim deserves to die. its just a pity we cant stop these people, they are crazy in the head and they think what they are doing is justified. when it surely isnt.
saying that.. there is terrorism in all areas. muslim fanatics are not the only ones. i have to say that sometimes the media is biased and that it doesnt look at the other picture. for example, the crisis in the middle east. the ongoing heat between israel and palestine. channels like cnn and ESPECIALLY FOX NEWS, report only that a suicide bomber from palestine kills israelis.. what they dont report is WHY THEY ARE DOING THIS? WHY ARE THEY REPEATEDLY AMBUSHING ISRAELIS LIKE THIS? what is the story behind all this. i still stick to my facts that jerusalem was muslim's territory for 800 years before the UNITED NATIONS gave that territory to ISrael. i think that is totally unfair, they should have worked out something that could be worked upon by both countries. since it is a holy land for both religions.. anyways i went a bit off topic there but u get my point

they have propelled grenades, they "terrorist" are pretty darn well armed , and a mountain of explosives.
And they getting better organized evry day.
A lot of more lifes gonna be lost, and the death toll doesnt care for what nationlity the victims have

i m a muslim n 2 me all that terrorism comes frm the human mind rather than any religion

if a person goes 2 the extremes of a religion then it's his fault not the religion's he just got the wrong meanin of it all mayb

yeah they use religion, any religion, to trick people into suporting their causes

Originally posted by maham
i m a muslim n 2 me all that terrorism comes frm the human mind rather than any religion

if a person goes 2 the extremes of a religion then it's his fault not the religion's he just got the wrong meanin of it all mayb

Yes, we have lots of Muslims where I live too.....sorry you're judged...

People are always judging others.

Mexicans = lazy
Jews=run everything and rich..(well, they are rich here, got them too)
blacks=on welfare
Chinese=good restaurants (well they do)
Arabs=own gas stations and party stores, angry (well many do here)
English=snobby....don't know although
Italians=good cooks(hmmmmmm, well that's true), but fat.....NO
Norwegians=couch potatoes, and go to pubs (don't knno of any)
Swedes=blond dummies, but bomb shells (don't know any)
Lithuanians=throw salt shakers...angry, my dad say this when eating a donut.....
Bosnians= throw salt shakers to..angry....my dad was eating a donut when he say this....hehe

(the list can go on and on

go to pubs yes......... couch potatoes must be danish

Originally posted by alic88
yes alpha. it has been horrible for me, i study in usa right now. i am doing high school, i am a muslim.. and sometimes people think that i am a terrorist myself. the bombings in london were tragic, but i cant do more than just say that these people are terrorist and they are self-proclaimed muslims.. islam doesnt say that killing an infidel sends a muslim directly to heaven, it is the illiterate people in muslim countries that suit the religion for themselves and try to misguide people into thinking that who ever is not a muslim deserves to die. its just a pity we cant stop these people, they are crazy in the head and they think what they are doing is justified. when it surely isnt.
saying that.. there is terrorism in all areas. muslim fanatics are not the only ones. i have to say that sometimes the media is biased and that it doesnt look at the other picture. for example, the crisis in the middle east. the ongoing heat between israel and palestine. channels like cnn and ESPECIALLY FOX NEWS, report only that a suicide bomber from palestine kills israelis.. what they dont report is WHY THEY ARE DOING THIS? WHY ARE THEY REPEATEDLY AMBUSHING ISRAELIS LIKE THIS? what is the story behind all this. i still stick to my facts that jerusalem was muslim's territory for 800 years before the UNITED NATIONS gave that territory to ISrael. i think that is totally unfair, they should have worked out something that could be worked upon by both countries. since it is a holy land for both religions.. anyways i went a bit off topic there but u get my point


exactly!

Right on that is true what he said am here in US of A studying my junior year and some kids thought i was a terrorist (some still think i am)...what cuz am Muslim that's it am a terrorist...cuz you think most of the terrorists are Muslims?...i didn't mind the questions they asked me like "Do you kill for a living?","Do you carry a gun where ever you go?","Do you like killing ppl?"...hello if i am a terrorist(and i wouldn't want to be one) and if i wer wouldn't i be on TV right now???...and it is true i for one HATE terrorist even if they wer Muslims they think what they are doing is right and they think they will go to heaven for what they did but if you ask them that if they pray 5 times a day he/she would be like pray *gasp* umm yeah sometimes...my point is no don't think that cuz their are to many Muslim terrorists every Muslim is...it is just sad to think about it you know...

Originally posted by KidRock
Yes. I agre, but muslims don't. I don't know how they can read the koran and say it's a peaceful religion. I guess it depends on how they interpret it.

Originally posted by lil bitchiness
You said ''islam is not the cause of terrorism'' then you said ''religion as a whole is''

What is Islam but religion? It sounds like he wants to get rid of all religions which is illogical because there are always going to be religions or ideologies of some kind.There has to be.

People such as Bin Laden manipulate the meanings of religion. They use that to gain followers by teaching a corrupted credo.

These events are not solely religious. Although religion plays an important role, so do a variety of cultural, political and historical factors.

Religion doesnt kill.
People do.
Before religion, people killed.
If religion disappeared, people would still kill.
If religion never happened, people would still kill.
It's the nature of the beast.

Or the Mark of the Beast.

...not good...I'm enjoying this...


pile

Originally posted by Mindship
...not good...I'm enjoying this...


pile

Originally posted by Grand Moff Gav
Discuss (by such i refer to Bin Laden,Abu Hamza etc) They are extreme followers of the islam and absolutely dispise the American forces who had violated their supposed holy grounds. The Islam is a factor for them in commiting the crime but not to blame.

Religion - The root of evil.

^many of them yes..sad to say..

it might come as shock to some peopel but bin laden actually has the CORRECT meanin of islam n hasntmanipulated it, nicer people r the ones who manipulate it.

Originally posted by leonheartmm
it might come as shock to some peopel but bin laden actually has the CORRECT meanin of islam n hasntmanipulated it, nicer people r the ones who manipulate it.

Are you saying good muslims aren't following Islam like they should and should be evil?

The Qur'an tells muslims to kill and go to war to fight for Islam: Quran, chapters (Surahs) 9:5; 2:191; 2:193; 3:118; 4:75,76; 5:33, 8:12; 8:65; 9:73,123; 33:60-62.
Fight for Allah: "And kill them wherever you find them, and drive them out from whence they drove you out, and persecution is severer than slaughter, and do not fight with them at the Sacred Mosque until they fight with you in it, but if they do fight you, then slay them; such is the recompense of the unbelievers, (Quran 2:191).

Originally posted by Son of Man
The Qur'an tells muslims to kill and go to war to fight for Islam: Quran, chapters (Surahs) 9:5; 2:191; 2:193; 3:118; 4:75,76; 5:33, 8:12; 8:65; 9:73,123; 33:60-62.
Fight for Allah: "And kill them wherever you find them, and drive them out from whence they drove you out, and persecution is severer than slaughter, and do not fight with them at the Sacred Mosque until they fight with you in it, but if they do fight you, then slay them; such is the recompense of the unbelievers, (Quran 2:191).

Originally posted by Adam_PoE


oh SNAP!!!! clap

Deuteronomy is a Jewish scripture. Are you Jewsih Son of Man?

Originally posted by Grand Moff Gav
Discuss (by such i refer to Bin Laden,Abu Hamza etc)

Well, I don't know if Islam is the cause of terrorism because all Muslims are not terrorists yet all terrorists have been Muslims, so go figure.

its old trestament, so its also christian

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Deuteronomy%2013:6-10;&version=9;

Originally posted by PVS
its old trestament, so its also christian

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Deuteronomy%2013:6-10;&version=9;

That is a Jewsih scripture later adopted by christians when the bible was put together - Christian scripture is the New Testament.

Moreover, Deuteronomy warns of a false prophet - hence why Jews rejected Christ.

Then, by proxy, the quote by Adam PoE is applicable to Jews as much as it is applicable as Christians.

Originally posted by lil bitchiness
That is a Jewsih scripture later adopted by christians when the bible was put together - Christian scripture is the New Testament.

If Christians are the followers of Christ, then their scripture is the one about christ - which is New Testament.

Deuteronomy warns of a false prophet - hence why Jews rejected Christ,

the old testament is part of the christian faith.
and the new testament is riddled with hatred for anyone who is non christian, thus the belief of eternal damnation of everyone who is not christian.

Originally posted by lil bitchiness
Then, by proxy, the quote by Adam PoE is applicable to Jews as much as it is applicable as Christians.

oh THATS what you're saying? well then yes you're right. i mistook your point

Edit -

you just edited out an angry post after reading my correction post didnt you?

No, it is not (in response to the thread question).

Not just Islam, but many factors, peoples, governments. It takes 2 to tango.

Originally posted by Grand Moff Gav,
Discuss (by such i refer to Bin Laden,Abu Hamza etc) no, islam and terror don't go hand in hand.

bin laden is a wahabbi (spelling?) muslim. he's basically against foreigners or those that don't follow his religion.

Adam, those people desered to die. Read the whole chapter, instead of taking things out of context.

Let, me ask you a few things.

1. does a murder deserve to die? I think yes.

2. does a rapists? I think yes.

Jesus clarified that murder is wrong.

Jesus said, Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy.
" But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you.."

also..

"Ye have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth:
But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also".

Later.

Originally posted by Son of Man
Adam, those people desered to die. Read the whole chapter, instead of taking things out of context.

You cited a passage in which the Quran teaches that non-believers should be killed, and I cited a passage in which the Bible teaches that non-believers should be killed; Islam does not appear to be any worse than Christianity.

Let us compare Jesus and Muhammad. (Both of the religons foinders. I have nothing against Muslims, except there teachings.)

First, Muhammad.
Muhammad fought many many times
Muhammad killed many
Muhammad said women were were 1/2 as smart as men (Hadith 3:826; 2:541), that the majority in hell will be women (Had. 1:28,301; 2:161; 7:124), and that women could be mortgaged.
Muhammad owned slaves.
Muhammad was a sinner (Quran 40:55; 48:1-2)

Now Jesus.
Jesus never fought
Jesus never killed anyone
Jesus spoke well of women
Jesus owned no slaves
Jesus never sinned (1 Pet. 2:22

Remember, I have nothing against Muslims, just there teachings. Later.

Originally posted by Son of Man
Let us compare Jesus and Muhammad. (Both of the religons foinders. I have nothing against Muslims, except there teachings.)

First, Muhammad.
Muhammad fought many many times
Muhammad killed many
Muhammad said women were were 1/2 as smart as men (Hadith 3:826; 2:541), that the majority in hell will be women (Had. 1:28,301; 2:161; 7:124), and that women could be mortgaged.
Muhammad owned slaves.
Muhammad was a sinner (Quran 40:55; 48:1-2)

Now Jesus.
Jesus never fought
Jesus never killed anyone
Jesus spoke well of women
Jesus owned no slaves
Jesus never sinned (1 Pet. 2:22

Remember, I have nothing against Muslims, just there teachings. Later.

What does this have to do with the thread topic?

To show one founder taught morally wrong and murderous things, and one didn't.

Maybe the queestion should be "Is America the cause of terrorism"

Originally posted by FistOfThe North
Maybe the queestion should be "Is America the cause of terrorism"

ZING!

Originally posted by Son of Man
To show one founder taught morally wrong and murderous things, and one didn't.

Both holy books do, however.

Originally posted by PVS
you just edited out an angry post after reading my correction post didnt you?

I did not!!

No seriously, I edited trying to point out what you corrected - and since we already understood each other, i felt there was no need for the post.

Originally posted by Adam_PoE
You cited a passage in which the Quran teaches that non-believers should be killed, and I cited a passage in which the Bible teaches that non-believers should be killed; Islam does not appear to be any worse than Christianity.

Adam, if you want to prove how simialr Christian and Islamic faiths are, then quote from the NEW testament.

The scripture you keep on quoting is Jewish, adopted by Christians - Christian scripture - the scripture which made Christianity a religion, is the New Testament. Without that scripture, the Christianity would not exist - anything from the birth of Christ onwards is Christianity, anything before then is Judaism, adopted by Christianity - its not even changed, just added on.

Muslim religion is most similar to Jewish, and if you actually take time to READ the Quran, this will be most apperant.

Thus the following point applies -

If Quran and Torrah are the same in nature, and there are not a whole lot Jewish terrorists, what is the point of quoting the each book and comparing it with ech other.

The scripture you aim to quote is the NEW testament - because thats all about Jesus, or AAJ for short.

Originally posted by lil bitchiness
Adam, if you want to prove how simialr Christian and Islamic faiths are, then quote from the NEW testament.

The scripture you keep on quoting is Jewish, adopted by Christians - Christian scripture - the scripture which made Christianity a religion, is the New Testament. Without that scripture, the Christianity would not exist - anything from the birth of Christ onwards is Christianity, anything before then is Judaism, adopted by Christianity - its not even changed, just added on.

Muslim religion is most similar to Jewish, and if you actually take time to READ the Quran, this will be most apperant.

Thus the following point applies -

If Quran and Torrah are the same in nature, and there are not a whole lot Jewish terrorists, what is the point of quoting the each book and comparing it with ech other.

The scripture you aim to quote is the NEW testament - because thats all about Jesus, or AAJ for short.

The Torah only accounts for five of the 39 books of the Old Testament. The other 34 books are exclusive to the Christian Bible.

Both testaments are representative of Christianity. The Old Testament is the Law, and the New Testament is the Gospel.

Just remember this: Neither the Koran/Quran nor the Bible should be taken 100% seriously. Not even the muslims (the ones I know, at least) take it word for word. And Mohammed to Jesus, sure Jesus was a goody two-shoes, but if he saw what happened after is death (i.e. The Crusades, The Inquisition, The Extreme Cults, etc) he would be rolling over in his grave going "Oh Me... Where did I go wrong?!" Same with Mohammed with the Extremists and such.

Also, here's a fun fact- Religious wise, Christians fought (and still fight) over their own religion, constantly. You know what I'm talking about... In Ireland Protestants and Catholics are fighting over who's right. THis scenario has been going on for quite a while. However, according to the Koran, it is not accepted to fight a Muslim over their sect and yours. Now, you may ask "What about the Sunnis and Shiites in Iraq, fighting with eachother a while ago?" Actually, that was over land. The Sunnis and Shiites tend to live in their own communities to avoid religious bouts. So at least they were killing themselves over something that they were 100% sure existed.

That is all...

Originally posted by Grand_Moff_Gav
Discuss (by such i refer to Bin Laden,Abu Hamza etc)

Hell no dude! Believe me I know enough about this religion to tell for sure. Islam has nothing to do with terrorism, in fact it's one of the most peacefull religions.
A lot of people would disagree and the reason why is TV propaganda.
Because of the countless TV programms people have no idea about the islam ideas. All the time you can hear on TV frases like: Islamic terrorists, muslim thief blah blah so it became a stereotype. The thing is whenever muslim man do something bad they always mention his religion. The are thousands of killers and sycopaths among christians and jew and people of other religions but when for example christian kills somebody noone even pays attention to his religion.

the cause of terrorism is GWB. Think about it, before he invaded Iraq, and before 9/11, terrorism was quite slim, after, it more than dectupled!

Has anybody mentioned the IRA yet? I hear they aren't classified as a terrorist group any more, but they certainly used to be (Bloody Friday, anyone?). Hard to see how Islam caused that one...

no we are.

for allowing the govenment to trick us into believing there is a real threat out there, when there isnt. and then we allow outselves to go to war with many innocents and slaughter them..

ofcourse islam is the cause of terror? why because of its people? they are fanatics.

if islam have no fanatics then its not gonna cause terror

islam is not the cause of terror. people who join it and who act upon their rage..."kill them infidels" are the terrorist not the religion itself.

the biggest terrorists are the FBI and the CIA

Originally posted by ROYALGUARD
ofcourse islam is the cause of terror? why because of its people? they are fanatics.

if islam have no fanatics then its not gonna cause terror

islam is not the cause of terror. people who join it and who act upon their rage..."kill them infidels" are the terrorist not the religion itself. there's a difference between a muslim and a muslim terrorist. Muslim terrorists are so delusional they'll kill anyone against them, and thanks to US and Europe's brilliant plans to send them weapons... you could see it coming.

1. Sell muslims weapons for money
2. Bad-mouth their religion
3. Steal their goods and take away their freedom and privelages
4. Make up an excuse to attack them
5. Bomb their allies and make them bankrupt
6. Take glory

Originally posted by ROYALGUARD
ofcourse islam is the cause of terror? why because of its people? they are fanatics.

if islam have no fanatics then its not gonna cause terror

islam is not the cause of terror. people who join it and who act upon their rage..."kill them infidels" are the terrorist not the religion itself.

You are the brightest example of someone who has no idea what islam is.
Fistly Islam NEVER N. E. V. E. R. supports killing people or war unless it is a urgent selfprotection. Those people who caused that terract on 9/11 did it not because they were muslims but because they were bastard. Again you can't judge about religion by some crazy loonatics, because there are such people in every world religion.

I never know if people are talking about some new form of Islam I know nothing about, or the Koran Islam. In which case, it endorses a lot of killing. Don't be so $#@%ing blind, they even have a clause that says that 'non-believers' are to pay taxes or die.

Originally posted by NineCoronas
I never know if people are talking about some new form of Islam I know nothing about, or the Koran Islam. In which case, it endorses a lot of killing. Don't be so $#@%ing blind, they even have a clause that says that 'non-believers' are to pay taxes or die.

This statement was a bit uncalled for and I apologize in advance for the patronizing attitude.

I think the koran saying that is a rumour. Besisdes, Islam is only 1500 years old. Remember Christianity and Judaism when they were 1500 years old?

Originally posted by lord xyz
I think the koran saying that is a rumour. Besisdes, Islam is only 1500 years old. Remember Christianity and Judaism when they were 1500 years old? It's not a rumor. Even still, it is by itself a religion that is not tolerant of non-believers, regardless of whether the practicioners ignore that doctrine or not.

Originally posted by NineCoronas
I never know if people are talking about some new form of Islam I know nothing about, or the Koran Islam. In which case, it endorses a lot of killing. Don't be so $#@%ing blind, they even have a clause that says that 'non-believers' are to pay taxes or die.

1000 years old taxes has nothing to do with religion. It's about politics. Same and even worse things were happening to christians because of the greedy rulers. So?
Man, I am muslim, I want to insure you that there in nothing in Koran that supports terrorism or violance. You are the one who is blind here since you believe anything you hear on TV.

Originally posted by NineCoronas
It's not a rumor. Even still, it is by itself a religion that is not tolerant of non-believers, regardless of whether the practicioners ignore that doctrine or not.

It is not less tolerant to non-believers than any other religion.

Originally posted by Sam Z
1000 years old taxes has nothing to do with religion. It's about politics. Same and even worse things were happening to christians because of the greedy rulers. So?
Man, I am muslim, I want to insure you that there in nothing in Koran that supports terrorism or violance. You are the one who is blind here since you believe anything you hear on TV. Except I didn't hear that on TV, and most of TV says the Islam is a peaceful religion (I have only Basic Cable). I barely watch it in the first place.

Originally posted by Sam Z
It is not less tolerant to non-believers than any other religion. Indeed. Crusades is a prime example, eh?

Did you happen to miss this, or did you decide to ignore my pre-emptive apology?

Originally posted by NineCoronas
This statement was a bit uncalled for and I apologize in advance for the patronizing attitude.

Originally posted by NineCoronas
Indeed. Crusades is a prime example, eh?

Did you happen to miss this, or did you decide to ignore my pre-emptive apology?

And what about Crusades? I'm not sure I translated this word right, but if i did then Crusades were not only in muslim history but in christian too.
So what? It makes christians evil as well?

Originally posted by NineCoronas
This statement was a bit uncalled for and I apologize in advance for the patronizing attitude.

ok

Originally posted by Sam Z
And what about Crusades? I'm not sure I translated this word right, but if i did then Crusades were not only in muslim history but in christian too.
So what? It makes christians evil as well? I haven't said Islamic's are evil, or Christian's are. I was using it as an example when a lack of tolerance has gone way too far.

Originally posted by NineCoronas
I haven't said Islamic's are evil, or Christian's are. I was using it as an example when a lack of tolerance has gone way too far.

I see, but it all about politics. This wasn't really aimed at spreading religion's ideas but to get more territory. Rulers of all countries wanted to enlarge their territory. So no wonder there were the same rulers in arabic countries.
Muslims go by the Koran and there is nothing like "kill non-believers". There mentioned telling other people about islam's ideas but never by forcing them to become a muslim.

Originally posted by Sam Z
I see, but it all about politics. This wasn't really aimed at spreading religion's ideas but to get more territory. Rulers of all countries wanted to enlarge their territory. So no wonder there were the same rulers in arabic countries.
Muslims go by the Koran and there is nothing like "kill non-believers". There mentioned telling other people about islam's ideas but never by forcing them to become a muslim. Maybe not now. May I ask why so many different 'sects' of Muslims are at each other's throats?

Originally posted by NineCoronas
Maybe not now. May I ask why so many different 'sects' of Muslims are at each other's throats?

Sects?? There are only two branches of Islam and in fact they are the same, people of two branches believe in the same thing but they have an argument that is actually not about religion but about power. They have different views on who must be on the head of religion this days. By the head of religion I mean leader (something like Pop for katholics) but that's the only differance between sunni and shiiti.
I honostly don't know what sects you are talking about.

Originally posted by Sam Z
Sects?? There are only two branches of Islam and in fact they are the same, people of two branches believe in the same thing but they have an argument that is actually not about religion but about power. They have different views on who must be on the head of religion this days. By the head of religion I mean leader (something like Pop for katholics) but that's the only differance between sunni and shiiti.
I honostly don't know what sects you are talking about. By sects, I meant groups of people that follow Islam. Such as Shiites and Kurds.

Originally posted by NineCoronas
By sects, I meant groups of people that follow Islam. Such as Shiites and Kurds.

Right, Shiiti and Sunni, I mentioned them in the last post, but that's all. Kurds are actually not a sect but nationality. They used to live on Iran territory before, now they seem to get it back.

Originally posted by Sam Z
Right, Shiiti and Sunni, I mentioned them in the last post, but that's all. Kurds are actually not a sect but nationality. They used to live on Iran territory before, now they seem to get it back. Ah, ok then.

Terrorism has existed for centuries and has been done by EVERY powerful organization you can think of.

Islam didn't start this.

This was done since the time of the Romans.