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Who Wins?

Been done before. Probably Strange

Loki for sure.

loki has magic and strength, strange only has magic

loki has magic and strength, strange only has magic

does loki have super strength? if he does he wins for sure

Plus Loki is immortal, Strange isn't. Loki easily.

Loki. I hate loki though.

Strange has matched powers with Mephisto, Dormammu, Nightmare and those types.

As long as Loki doesn't get his hands on Strange, Strange gets him.

Strange isn't immortal?
He's more immortal than Loki, Loki is immortal by way of not aging, Strange is immortal by way of Eternity making him unable to truely ever die until he feels it's time.

They've faught twice that I know of, once before Strange was a sorcerer, yet he still stalemated Loki for a bit.
Second time Loki had to steal all of Strange's artifacts to have a shot at winning.

The problem is, Loki is limited to his internal magic, Strange is only limited to whatever god's power he wants to invoke.

Strange envokes Cyttorak and crushes Loki in the bands. See if he's strong enough to resist that.

When I finally got to see what Loki looked and acted like with Strange's artifacts and powers, damn he was bad ass.

Loki had his cloak and everything, he was baaaaddd aassssss.

do they have any prep time? it really depends on who got the drop on who first who has more raw mystical power?etc.though i would say in a straight up fight .loki takes it.

With prep, Loki is as good as dead.

Raw mystical power doesn't mean too much, what really matters is how you apply the power. There is a reason why Loki has been around 50,000 years and his power hasn't grown since his first 50.
Strange was able to pass him by in power after being around for only 30 years, he's just better at it, he was chosen millenias ago to be the greatest.

Now since Strange has accumulated a few more thousand years experience, his odds of winning are pretty high.

I still think Loki can manage 3/10 possibly 4/10.

I'm gonna quote that last line of yours if we meet LP...I can make up the other part of the fraction with the rest of my guy...hehe...

-DM

I retract my last line. Dammit I retract!

Loki is certainly near Strange's league......unless say...Strange gets prep...like 30min to an hour.

Yeah, prep is EVERYTHING FOR STRANGE !!!
Loki is a god, Strange is a dude who is friends to millions of gods !!

Bumplestiltskin.

You fail to realise Loki has various other abilitys besides magic, Such as his shapeshifting and transformation. Also his ability to inbune others with power (he created Absorbing man, who has matched Thor in battle)

Also, his power has inproved considerably since his fight with the Avengers way back when. He didn't have rune magic back then.

Strange still takes it proboly, but Loki is AT LEAST 4/5, possibly 4.99999/5.00001

And shapeshifting/transformation will get him....where? He doesn't have the ability to give others powers naturally, he uses asgardian magic, like with Absorbing man, he used magic herbs.

Loki has Rune magic now? Strange has had it before too, in fact, he had a rune stone he used to give Thor amazing powers.

Hey, pig what does Pootangalicious mean ??

didnt strange say loki would beat him?

bump

Originally posted by Quick Freeze
didnt strange say loki would beat him?
No.

He was being snarky.

"I shall destroy you!"

"Oh, I'm sure you will" while Strange is drawn rolling his eyes.

Strange=Sorcerer Supreme of all the Universe. Loki=not even top 5 in Asgard.
Loki gave others powers with tons of prep and help from potions.
Strange gave powers with a single spell.

The big one is The EOA would kill loki in a single blast. No one who does evil can survive it's blast.

dr strange wins

I am a sexual tyrant!

noone thinks loki can win?

Originally posted by long pig
They've faught twice that I know of, once before Strange was a sorcerer, yet he still stalemated Loki for a bit.

What are you talking about? Strange was most definitely a sorcerer. Hell, we're introduced to him as the master of black magic. Stalemate is a bit of an exaggeration. He blocked a single psychic bolt from Loki and it exhausted him noticeably. Although it should be noted that he was weakened by a battle from Mordu a day or two ago.

Originally posted by long pig
Second time Loki had to steal all of Strange's artifacts to have a shot at winning.

Haha, what are you talking about?

Loki stole nothing. Strange and Loki fought, and it was made abundantly clear that Loki was beyond him. To make matters worse, that was an Astral sliver of his or whatever, which had only a fraction of his power (Possibly hyperbole, but whatever). The only reason Loki didn't end him is because Thor was coming and he fled.

It should be noted though, that this was only a year or two after Strange had been introduced. He wasn't a master of the mystic arts for very long. He hadn't completely mastered the art of Levitation for example.

The question is whether or not Strange became powerful enough to offset the enormous power gap, since Loki was dominating him at only a fraction of his power. I think he probably did.

Loki's more innately powerful but Strange can call on higher powers. Either way, this would be a battle I'd pay to see.

Modern day Strange gets stomped though. Frankly, from what I've seen, Strange from the last 6 or so years gets stomped. Maybe even longer, but I didn't read the Order so I can't be sure.

JIM:
http://i1199.photobucket.com/albums/aa469/R-O-O/LokivsStrange6.jpg

Strange Tales:
http://i1199.photobucket.com/albums/aa469/R-O-O/LokivsStrange1.jpg
http://i1199.photobucket.com/albums/aa469/R-O-O/LokivsStrange2.jpg
http://i1199.photobucket.com/albums/aa469/R-O-O/LokivsStrange3.jpg
http://i1199.photobucket.com/albums/aa469/R-O-O/LokivsStrange4.jpg
http://i1199.photobucket.com/albums/aa469/R-O-O/LokivsStrange5.jpg

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
What are you talking about? Strange was most definitely a sorcerer. Hell, we're introduced to him as the master of black magic. Stalemate is a bit of an exaggeration. He blocked a single psychic bolt from Loki and it exhausted him noticeably. Although it should be noted that he was weakened by a battle from Mordu a day or two ago.



Haha, what are you talking about?

Loki stole nothing. Strange and Loki fought, and it was made abundantly clear that Loki was beyond him. To make matters worse, that was an Astral sliver of his or whatever, which had only a fraction of his power (Possibly hyperbole, but whatever). The only reason Loki didn't end him is because Thor was coming and he fled.

It should be noted though, that this was only a year or two after Strange had been introduced. He wasn't a master of the mystic arts for very long. He hadn't completely mastered the art of Levitation for example.

The question is whether or not Strange became powerful enough to offset the enormous power gap, since Loki was dominating him at only a fraction of his power. I think he probably did.

Loki's more innately powerful but Strange can call on higher powers. Either way, this would be a battle I'd pay to see.

Modern day Strange gets stomped though. Frankly, from what I've seen, Strange from the last 6 or so years gets stomped. Maybe even longer, but I didn't read the Order so I can't be sure.

but, didn't you read that other thread? classic strange>>skyfathers.

What? Nah. Strange is a resourceful dude, his defeated much more powerful beings by being a cunning bastard but let's not get crazy with him.

If he faced someone like say Odin, he'd need real prep or he gets shut down pretty hard the large majority of the time.

IIRC, a sword Odin enchanted -or perhaps the World Tree, not 100% sure- stripped Strange of his magical powers and he admitted it was a magic greater than his own. I know for a fact that it was only when the sword was freed by Thor, that the Sorcerer Supreme's powers started coming back.

Strange only became Sorceror Supreme when the Ancient One died at that point hes basically still just Ancient One's disciple. try again

With Black Magic Strange has taken the power from someone with no limit to his power. He needs prep to take Odin's power now?

But no lets downplay Dr Strange and his supporting characters and invalidate all his wins over abstracts because..........oh no that makes him too powerful

Originally posted by SasuOna
Strange only became Sorceror Supreme when the Ancient One died at that point hes basically still just Ancient One's disciple. try again

With Black Magic Strange has taken the power from someone with no limit to his power. He needs prep to take Odin's power now?

But no lets downplay Dr Strange and his supporting characters and invalidate all his wins over abstracts because..........oh no that makes him too powerful

lol

so, who ARE all these abstracts strange has taken down without any outside help? and do we simply discount all the times he has been beaten by any non-abstract?

Abstracts? He defeated Death once but that isn't really applicable here as he didn't beat Death in a physical or power confrontation. That's about it from what I've seen.

His greatest feats I'd wager were illustrating to the Tribunal he was more powerful than believed in a brief encounter, stealing Shuma's power, and the Infinity Gauntlet scene. The Shuma Gorath thing was one of those cunning showings IIRC, and he matched a single Gem for a brief time with a noticeable amount of prep. I believe the Tribunal was noticeably weaker back then; that might have been his first appearance.

He bound Mephisto once, and had two nice showings against Galactus. However, Galactus was portrayed much more powerful than Strange IIRC and Mephisto more often than not has been as well to a lesser degree.

On the other side of the spectrum, we have plenty of mundane showings to chose from. Heck, Bendis alone has supplied us with enough shitty showings to match every high end showing.

F*cking Bendis.

Strange is powerful, but let's not get stupid here.

Edit: It was once said Strange had the power to shake the Universe or some such, but that was probably hyperbole. Didn't he also do well against the In Betweener? I don't know, it's been too long.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Abstracts? He defeated Death once but that isn't really applicable here as he didn't beat Death in a physical or power confrontation. That's about it from what I've seen.

His greatest feats I'd wager were illustrating to the Tribunal he was more powerful than believed in a brief encounter, stealing Shuma's power, and the Infinity Gauntlet scene. The Shuma Gorath thing was one of those cunning showings IIRC, and he matched a single Gem for a brief time with a noticeable amount of prep. I believe the Tribunal was noticeably weaker back then; that might have been his first appearance.

He bound Mephisto once, and had two nice showings against Galactus. However, Galactus was portrayed much more powerful than Strange IIRC and Mephisto more often than not has been as well to a lesser degree.

On the other side of the spectrum, we have plenty of mundane showings to chose from. Heck, Bendis alone has supplied us with enough shitty showings to match every high end showing.

F*cking Bendis.

Strange is powerful, but let's not get stupid here.

Originally posted by SasuOna
Strange only became Sorceror Supreme when the Ancient One died at that point hes basically still just Ancient One's disciple. try again

Wasn't the Sorcerer Supreme title back then mostly just that, a title? I'm not 100% as it's been a while (It's probably been 6 years since I read through the Strange collection) and the mess Bendis has created certainly hasn't cleared anything up.

Strange has definitely gotten more powerful since his fight with Loki, acquiring more knowledge, and in turn more power, so he'd fare better, probably better than any other Top Tier, but would still go down.

Originally posted by leonidas
lol

so, who ARE all these abstracts strange has taken down without any outside help? and do we simply discount all the times he has been beaten by any non-abstract?
The way you keep saying stupid things like this to downplay Strange just makes me take you less seriously all the time. You do know why the forces of the universe lend their power to Strange right? And for the record Strange didn't summon Order and Chaos during his fight(he can't do that anyway) with the In betweener he was using their powers.


Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Wasn't the Sorcerer Supreme title back then mostly just that, a title? I'm not 100% as it's been a while (It's probably been 6 years since I read through the Strange collection) and the mess Bendis has created certainly hasn't cleared anything up.

Strange has definitely gotten more powerful since his fight with Loki, acquiring more knowledge, and in turn more power, so he'd fare better, probably better than any other Top Tier, but would still go down.
That was his first series Strange Tales when he first encountered Loki who tricked him into stealing Mjolnir. At that point and time the Ancient One was still the Sorcerer Supreme and Strange was still a disciple. He wasn't a master of black magic either that was just what they called his series at the time.

I know Strange wasn't as powerful as he was during his peak....which is why I said the fight would go differently. I don't think a fraction of Loki's power is enough to beat Strange anymore.

I'm just asking if the title of the Sorcerer Supreme was just a title back then.

Originally posted by SasuOna
The way you keep saying stupid things like this to downplay Strange just makes me take you less seriously all the time.



well we're ALMOST even, then. personally i've NEVER taken anything YOU'VE said seriously.



wait, cuz he's more powerful than all of them?? he's used eternity's powers as well. strange clearly>>>>>>eternity. well reasoned.



he used it AFTER his own power wasn't enough. not that i get why you brought it up...... he's been shown to need prep to deal with dracula. enchantress and skurge nearly killed him. mephisto DWARFED him and doom combined in power. he was never shown to be above LOKI. i could go back and find a LOT more instances if you need more. but you'll likely call all those times pis--it's a common stance to take when one can no longer back up claims.....

so, AGAIN--who are all these abstracts he's defeated? you said it, so, you gonna name them and the context or are you gonna just keep yammering about someone i really believe you know nothing about other than what you've read in the forum? because "FOR THE RECORD" you're the one who claimed strange>skyfather but have as yet done nothing to support that ludicrous claim. i await your proof eagerly.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Wasn't the Sorcerer Supreme title back then mostly just that, a title? I'm not 100% as it's been a while

Strange has definitely gotten more powerful since his fight with Loki, acquiring more knowledge, and in turn more power, so he'd fare better, probably better than any other Top Tier, but would still go down. What? Of course it's not just a title. How could you possibly comment on a character you obviously know lack about. Strange was herald level as master mystic arts, but when he became SS, he became 100x more powerful because he was givin all of the ancient one's power, who was easily odin level, on top of his own. All the times he fought loki he was less than half a percent powerwise than he was after being SS. That. why Strange would slaughter loki.

I was always under the impression that bestowed the Sorcerer Supreme made one amped. Not just a title. Why else would so many fight to obtain it?

It's definitely the case now.

My interpretation of sorcerer supreme was less of an amp and more of what types of support you get for being sorceror supreme. Kind of like an agreement for many deities and powers in the universe/multiverse to assist the sorcerer supreme when it's needed regardless of alignment to prevent the universe in question from running down the drain. I mean even if you want to conquer said universe its kind of hard to do if it gets wasted or conquered by another deity/uber being.

That's more along the lines of what I was thinking. Strange trained for a long time to gain the title. When he finally he did, I don't remember there being some 100x amp. He seemed to access greater levels of power easier is all even before that, he could call on the Vishanti, Dormammu etc. There's a reason why only the best sorcerer gets the title.

Originally posted by the ninjak
I was always under the impression that bestowed the Sorcerer Supreme made one amped. Not just a title. Why else would so many fight to obtain it?

It's definitely the case now.

That's most definitely the case currently but I'm not sure if it was the stance back in the day. I could be wrong, but I want to clarify this.

Originally posted by long pig
What? Of course it's not just a title. How could you possibly comment on a character you obviously know lack about. Strange was herald level as master mystic arts, but when he became SS, he became 100x more powerful because he was givin all of the ancient one's power, who was easily odin level, on top of his own. All the times he fought loki he was less than half a percent powerwise than he was after being SS. That. why Strange would slaughter loki.

When he became the Sorcerer Supreme, the Ancient One's power was stacked upon his own and he became a 100 times more powerful? He is almost 99% more powerful than he was against his fight with Loki?

ermm

Are you certain about this? Not that I don't trust you -okay I don't but whatever- but can I have an issue number? If you're right, you're right, I'll concede, but this just doesn't....sound right.

Either way, Loki was kicking his ass with only a fraction of his power.

I'm no expert on Strange but I know enough about the character to give an opinion. I just haven't read his old issues in a long time.

Originally posted by Uriel005
My interpretation of sorcerer supreme was less of an amp and more of what types of support you get for being sorceror supreme. Kind of like an agreement for many deities and powers in the universe/multiverse to assist the sorcerer supreme when it's needed regardless of alignment to prevent the universe in question from running down the drain. I mean even if you want to conquer said universe its kind of hard to do if it gets wasted or conquered by another deity/uber being.
Nice posts and I agree with the above.

Though suddenly being able to harness and access spells and enchantments which would normally require some kind agreement or affiliation to a deity is definitely an amp to sorcerers. I sometimes use the term amp loosely.

The title probably gave him access to a wider range of deities and perhaps more power. He definitely got more powerful over the years, as his knowledge grew etc.

Still, I don't remember the shit Long Pig is mentioning. I'll have to dig up my collection to double check. I'm no expert and it's been a while.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
The title probably gave him access to a wider range of deities and perhaps more power. He definitely got more powerful over the years, as his knowledge grew etc.


That's why in the recent Strange lim series he wasn't in favour of such entities and had to make deals and apologies to them on occasions. One even rose up and consumed one of his students.

But he was still able to conduct surgery on Eternity to save the galaxy from a demon who simply broke one of the universal rules.

Strange currently is not the Sorcerer Supreme, and as such, has lost the backing of the Vishanti, Cyttorak, and all the other deities. He can still invoke them, but as Sorcerer Supreme, his power reserves are higher and he gets various perks as part of the deal, like the immortality, etc.

As Dr. Strange, master of the mystic arts, he's depowered and they're much less likely to listen or deliver aid.

So if becoming Sorcerer Supreme makes you more powerful does becoming Scientist Supreme make you smarter?

There's a scientist supreme? hmm

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
There's a scientist supreme? hmm Pym, So says Eternity.

Originally posted by Nihilist
Pym, So says Eternity. Eternity is full of hot air... He is also a deserving contender of the title jobber supreme

Originally posted by Omega Vision
So if becoming Sorcerer Supreme makes you more powerful does becoming Scientist Supreme make you smarter?

It just makes you that much more badass.

Hank fuggin' Pym ftw.

Pym Rules!

**** him. And **** that jobber Eternity.

That's Bendis talk right there.

**** Bendis too. The man is a complete hack. durfist

I agree with the above, but not your previous statement. uhuh

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
**** Bendis too. The man is a complete hack. durfist Watch what you say about the man who gave me some of Void/Sentry's greatest. I like bendis.

He also basically ruined the Avengers franchise and gave us some less than stellar Avengers as a replacement. Not to mention the mess of a character that is Wanda Maximoff.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
He also basically ruined the Avengers franchise and gave us some less than stellar Avengers as a replacement. Not to mention the mess of a character that is Wanda Maximoff. I really enjoyed the dark avengers and the buildup to Siege. I actually like norman osborne now. Most don't like his work or feel it spirals out of control but he does stir controversy well like me so it should be no surprise I like him.

I liked DA and Norman under him, actually. But Disassembled/HoM gave us the madness that is the Wanda Fanbase not to mention he trashed everything I liked about the Avengers and reverted them to this street/meta level team when they should be the top tier team in Marvel. Siege was..well.

It was phucking terrible. I firmly believe that event could have been so much better and as a result, so could have Sentry.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
I liked DA and Norman under him, actually. But Disassembled/HoM gave us the madness that is the Wanda Fanbase not to mention he trashed everything I liked about the Avengers and reverted them to this street/meta level team when they should be the top tier team in Marvel. Siege was..well.

It was phucking terrible. I firmly believe that event could have been so much better and as a result, so could have Sentry. What is it about the Sentry you found so dissatisfying under bendis' pen ?

Originally posted by quanchi112
What is it about the Sentry you found so dissatisfying under bendis' pen ?

The fact that Bendis didn't seem to know what to do with the guy. Hell, I pin that more on Marvel itself than him. Sentry was just a bad concept for Marvel all the way around, at least in the mainstream universe. Jenkins should have had his mini and left it at that instead of trying to force this character into canon. Introducing him as a new character would have been infinitely better than basically forcing him into decades worth of canon and propping him up as "Marvel's Superman". Considering a vast majority, at least here, of people who really like Sentry despise or don't care for Superman for pretty much the same reasons they like Sentry, which, to me, strikes me as odd.

Bendis has done far more than Sentry/Siege to gain my ire, though. He is wildly erratic and inconsistent and says one thing only to turn around and say something completely different. His strong suit is Daredevil, Ult. Spider-Man, and keeping things mostly street level.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
The fact that Bendis didn't seem to know what to do with the guy. Hell, I pin that more on Marvel itself than him. Sentry was just a bad concept for Marvel all the way around, at least in the mainstream universe. Jenkins should have had his mini and left it at that instead of trying to force this character into canon. Introducing him as a new character would have been infinitely better than basically forcing him into decades worth of canon and propping him up as "Marvel's Superman". Considering a vast majority, at least here, of people who really like Sentry despise or don't care for Superman for pretty much the same reasons they like Sentry, which, to me, strikes me as odd.

Bendis has done far more than Sentry/Siege to gain my ire, though. He is wildly erratic and inconsistent and says one thing only to turn around and say something completely different. His strong suit is Daredevil, Ult. Spider-Man, and keeping things mostly street level. I thought bendis handled him like a pure plot device like so many have handled Thor's hammer. I do agree he didn't really think through the ramifications of Sentry's actions and the ripple effect it would create but I feel he still kept the same status quo jenkins did when the Void appears. it the Void doesn't decide to go away on his own he beats earth into submission.

I liked the schizophrenia, the dual nature of him, the look, art was really good in dark avengers, and he is a complete opposite to Superman. Marvel took their superman and turned it on it's head which is why i see so many really hate him as they just plugged him in and marvelites had already chosen Thor/Hulk etc.

Most wanted to just be rid of him. I like him being gone for now anyways. Less is better. I would never want him to reach 1/4 the popularity as the Hulk. He'd get whored out.

Originally posted by quanchi112
I thought bendis handled him like a pure plot device like so many have handled Thor's hammer. I do agree he didn't really think through the ramifications of Sentry's actions and the ripple effect it would create but I feel he still kept the same status quo jenkins did when the Void appears. it the Void doesn't decide to go away on his own he beats earth into submission.

I liked the schizophrenia, the dual nature of him, the look, art was really good in dark avengers, and he is a complete opposite to Superman. Marvel took their superman and turned it on it's head which is why i see so many really hate him as they just plugged him in and marvelites had already chosen Thor/Hulk etc.

Most wanted to just be rid of him. I like him being gone for now anyways. Less is better. I would never want him to reach 1/4 the popularity as the Hulk. He'd get whored out.

I think someone like Morrison or even Geoff Johns would have handled Sentry better. Or Brubaker or Fraction or DnA. I just think Bendis has a tougher time dealing with truly Avengers worthy threats and stories. His current IG arc is just...WTF. Hood wanking: the sequel. Jenkins' Sentry was ok until it crossed over to the mainstream. His one-shot, Fallen Sun...Man, that was one of the most glorified character wanking I've ever seen. Sentry having relationships with Rogue? Sentry being more pure hearted than Ben Grimm? Everyone mourning him as a hero better than all of them? It was obviously intended to serve as a "F U" to the Sentry detractors.

Bendis tends to have a penchant for really mischaracterizing mental illness, though. See Wanda for instance. He doesn't really do his research outside of "they're crazy", which is why I'm nervous about him on Moon Knight.

I'm glad he's gone, too. I don't think there's really a place in Marvel for him, tbh.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
I think someone like Morrison or even Geoff Johns would have handled Sentry better. Or Brubaker or Fraction or DnA. I just think Bendis has a tougher time dealing with truly Avengers worthy threats and stories. His current IG arc is just...WTF. Hood wanking: the sequel. Jenkins' Sentry was ok until it crossed over to the mainstream. His one-shot, Fallen Sun...Man, that was one of the most glorified character wanking I've ever seen. Sentry having relationships with Rogue? Sentry being more pure hearted than Ben Grimm? Everyone mourning him as a hero better than all of them? It was obviously intended to serve as a "F U" to the Sentry detractors.

Bendis tends to have a penchant for really mischaracterizing mental illness, though. See Wanda for instance. He doesn't really do his research outside of "they're crazy", which is why I'm nervous about him on Moon Knight.

I'm glad he's gone, too. I don't think there's really a place in Marvel for him, tbh. I'd trust everyone you named save Morrison. Not reading the current ig arc at all. Seems terrible from what I've heard but then again you never know until you read something or attempt to anyways.

Sentry was as pure hearted as can be though but the dark side/Void was also the most evil you could be. I really hope it was an f u to sentry detractors.

I think this happens often with physics or anything writers just try to wing it. Either way I was happy overall with where it went. Could it have been better, certainly....could it have been worse, certainly.

I'm sure with time he will come back but we haven't seen genis back so who knows. I am content with his showings and history if he stays dead.

Originally posted by quanchi112
I'd trust everyone you named save Morrison. Not reading the current ig arc at all. Seems terrible from what I've heard but then again you never know until you read something or attempt to anyways.

Sentry was as pure hearted as can be though but the dark side/Void was also the most evil you could be. I really hope it was an f u to sentry detractors.

I think this happens often with physics or anything writers just try to wing it. Either way I was happy overall with where it went. Could it have been better, certainly....could it have been worse, certainly.

I'm sure with time he will come back but we haven't seen genis back so who knows. I am content with his showings and history if he stays dead.

Morrison's take on Sentry would probably make me want to go out and take a bunch of acid or something, tbh. But yeah, the current Avengers arc is just...really unworthy of the title. On paper, it would be a HUGE event, especially if handled by Busiek and Perez. But as it is, it's just some kind of whacky trip.

I have an issue of trying to downplay other characters to make one character look good. It's a cheap writing ploy, and a lot of writers are guilty of it. Trying to paint Ben as this less than noble guy (albeit with his own faults) to paint Sentry as being more in the moral right than him is ridiculous. The Rogue thing was just completely unneeded and used as a cheap "Sentry is cool" moment.

Fair enough.

He'll probably be back, but hopefully under someone different from Jenkins or Bendis.

Morrison is hands down better than anyone Marvel has employed in decades. Hell, he might be the only writer who could have saved Sentry as a character.

Johns, I think, would not have wanted to write him if he could help it. It's really more Grant's kind of project. Johns might have done something interesting, but I think he's the kind of guy who would be needed at the beginning of the character, someone who would build him up properly. Bringing him in mid-way? I'm not sure how he could fixed him.

Strange got many, MANY upgrades since his fight with Loki... he would wipe the floor with him now.

1st: Got better equipment, including all-imporant eye of aggamoto.
2nd: Ancient One gifted him with increased powers during fight with Zom.
3rd: Became Sorcerer Supreme and was bumped way, way up in power.
4th: Passed 1st trial of Sorcerer Supreme and gained immortality for many situations.
5th: Learned black magic.

and i'm sure there are more besides that.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
The fact that Bendis didn't seem to know what to do with the guy. Hell, I pin that more on Marvel itself than him. Sentry was just a bad concept for Marvel all the way around, at least in the mainstream universe. Jenkins should have had his mini and left it at that instead of trying to force this character into canon. Introducing him as a new character would have been infinitely better than basically forcing him into decades worth of canon and propping him up as "Marvel's Superman". Considering a vast majority, at least here, of people who really like Sentry despise or don't care for Superman for pretty much the same reasons they like Sentry, which, to me, strikes me as odd.

Bendis has done far more than Sentry/Siege to gain my ire, though. He is wildly erratic and inconsistent and says one thing only to turn around and say something completely different. His strong suit is Daredevil, Ult. Spider-Man, and keeping things mostly street level. I think Bendis's problem is superhumans in general. He kind of works their powers in the way that he perceives would be most awesome at the moment but ends up either ridiculously overpowering them or missing the point of their characters completely at times. His stories are interesting and relatively well written but not when he has to apply established characters to them who really had no business doing what they were doing.

With characters that are overpowered and treated in a very one dimensional way like Sentry, you have to go back to the basics. Start or do an origin mini and leave him out of the big event titles.