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who is faster?

Runner.

now this is a good one


cause flash was not confined to one reality.

but as runner is almost a god, id say runner.

I thought Kingdome come flash is everywhere at the same time how exactly is runner faster then that?

Originally posted by skizo
I thought Kingdome come flash is everywhere at the same time how exactly is runner faster then that?

He was. I dont get it. Kingdm Come flash was the embodiment of speed. People say Runner is fast, but im not even sure hes faster than Wally(who has beat death in a race to the end of time in less than 2 min). At least it hasnt been proven he is.

Considering current Flash is hella powerful, a Flash that exist on hundred different dimensions and can hit you before you can even breath, is gonna smack down Runner real bad I can tell you.
KC Flash practically travels in the fabric of time and space and do what he wants.
Superman barely hear him speaking.
This guy was really god-like.
KC final fight lasts more than 3 panels cause it wouldn't be fun to see a blur over all the bad guys then Superman and other heroes looking around themselves with their faces looking like:
What the hell happened?

BARRY ALLEN WAS FASTER THAN RUNNER. Barry threw the Galactic Marathon to save people. Other than that, he was likely to win. KC Flash is WAYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY out on a different level. He exists in different realities and times at the same time, and wasn't even really physical at all. Not including the fact that Flash steeeeaallls speed.

Originally posted by Juntai
BARRY ALLEN WAS FASTER THAN RUNNER. Barry threw the Galactic Marathon to save people. Other than that, he was likely to win. Wally west is consistantly faster than Barry was. And KC Flash is WAYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY out on a different level than even that. He exists in different realities and times at the same time, and wasn't even really physical at all. Not including the fact that Flash steeeeaallls speed.

crazy, not sure how that happened.
sry for the post craze.

Originally posted by Juntai
BARRY ALLEN WAS FASTER THAN RUNNER. Barry threw the Galactic Marathon to save people. Other than that, he was likely to win. KC Flash is WAYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY out on a different level. He exists in different realities and times at the same time, and wasn't even really physical at all. Not including the fact that Flash steeeeaallls speed.

Thats what I was saying to myself.

You should see what people have to say about Runner and Surfer in the other thread.

Flash easily. Practically the God of Speed.

Runner is god-like.
Kingdom Come Flash IS a god.

Flash wins this.

Originally posted by Creshosk
Runner is god-like.
Kingdom Come Flash IS a god.

Flash wins this.
Indeed.
He probably can use the speed force for purposes Wally never tough about actually.

I don't know much about KC Flash being omnipresent, but Runner can move from one point in space to another in 0 time, flat.

If anything, I'd say that they'd have to be about equal. Initially, I believed Runner was faster, but I'm open to convincing.

Please, give me any explanation other than "KC Flash is speed personified." It's very vauge.

For a guy that is everywhere...why does KC Flash only take care of Keystone city?

the "buried alien" thing juntai is referring to shouldn't really be shown as evidence that barry allen is faster than flash. "buried alien" may have been a tribute to barry allen, but it's ludicrous to use it as evidence that BA is faster than the runner. especially because the runner as run to the other side of the universe in the time it takes to scream.

Originally posted by hoorayforpeepee
the "buried alien" thing juntai is referring to shouldn't really be shown as evidence that barry allen is faster than flash. "buried alien" may have been a tribute to barry allen, but it's ludicrous to use it as evidence that BA is faster than the runner. especially because the runner as run to the other side of the universe in the time it takes to scream.

So has the flash in Wonder World

So I take it no one wants to answer my question? KC Flash is being overrated. If he is as godlike as everyone says then he would have no trouble taking care of the whole world; you know, since he is everywhere at once.

However, he only takes care of Keystone city. Does KC Flash have something against all the other cities?

Originally posted by 8bitChris
So I take it no one wants to answer my question? KC Flash is being overrated. If he is as godlike as everyone says then he would have no trouble taking care of the whole world; you know, since he is everywhere at once.

However, he only takes care of Keystone city. Does KC Flash have something against all the other cities?
Maybe his god-like status make him arrogant.
Maybe KC shouldn't last 3panels so the PIS make KC unable to take care of all the planet.

I thought KC Flash was everywhere in the universe at once, like Ion, not everywhere on the Earth.

Then he should be taking care of the whole Universe instead of just Keystone city

Are you serious? All this has been based on a narrative pun? He could seem to be everywhere in Keystone City at once, easily, if he was moving faster than light. Sheesh. You guys had me thinking KC Flash was omnipresent. I thought it was actually established in the comic that he was.

Narrative pun? Its the Spectre talking there. If he says Flash is everywhere at once, he is. You think hed say that just as an assumption?

Flash was living speed force energy. He patrolled 24/7. He was moving faster than lght. Like is said before, hes the embodiment of speed in KC.

Originally posted by jrodslam
Narrative pun? Its the Spectre talking there. If he says Flash is everywhere at once, he is. You think hed say that just as an assumption?

Flash was living speed force energy. He patrolled 24/7. He was moving faster than lght. Like is said before, hes the embodiment of speed in KC.

It's still a friggin pun. I thought that it was actually established. Was it?

"Embodiment of Speed." Explain.

Originally posted by Cosmic Cube
It's still a friggin pun. I thought that it was actually established. Was it?

Pretty much.

Originally posted by Cosmic Cube
"Embodiment of Speed." Explain.

Flash was living speed force energy. He had no identity. He held all the spirits of the previous incarnations of the Flash. Literally everywhere at once. He lived lightspeed+.

http://img230.imageshack.us/img230/8127/flashkingdomcome4nu.th.jpg

If he was literally everywhere at once, wouldn't everything be covered by a red blur, rather than solitary red streaks?

Perhaps we're taking the Spectre's words a bit too literally?

He looks cool, though. Can he fly?

Originally posted by Cosmic Cube
If he was literally everywhere at once, wouldn't everything be covered by a red blur, rather than solitary red streaks?

Perhaps we're taking the Spectre's words a bit too literally?

Not even a blur. No one was able to see nor hear him.

The streaks are used for us to see lol. Are you saying the Spectre was making that up?

Originally posted by Cosmic Cube
He looks cool, though. Can he fly?

Yes.

Originally posted by jrodslam
Not even a blur. No one was able to see nor hear him.

The streaks are used for us to see lol. Are you saying the Spectre was making that up?

Not that he's making it up. Just that he's slightly exaggerating. He could seem to be everywhere at once without actually being omnipresent.

Originally posted by Cosmic Cube
Not that he's making it up. Just that he's slightly exaggerating. He could seem to be everywhere at once without actually being omnipresent.

Why would the Spectre exaggerate? Flash didnt seem. He was everywhere at once lol.

The picture didn't even make it look like he was everywhere... He probably just patrols all parts of the city in a second or two. Which is some pretty disgusting speed, but far from being omnipresent. (like Flash Prime. ) Runner has a big power advantage, and I really don't know how big the speed difference would be. KC Flash is fast... But how fast? Even a path going through every nook and cranny of Keystone City wouldn't equal the length of an entire galaxy, which Runner has gone across in seconds. And something doesn't even have to be going lightspeed for it to be invisible to normal humans...

What would you need to see that would make you believe hes everywhere? He patrols the whole city 24/7. Plus Spectre said hes everywhere at once. Runner has gone across the galaxy in seconds, but Flash has run to the end of time and back in less than 2 minutes. Plus noone can seem to answer the fact that Flash would be able to steal Runners speed. Its been said that FLash would be overloaded, but no proof of that has been posted of Flash ever being overloaded with speed.

Originally posted by jrodslam
What would you need to see that would make you believe hes everywhere? He patrols the whole city 24/7. Plus Spectre said hes everywhere at once. Runner has gone across the galaxy in seconds, but Flash has run to the end of time and back in less than 2 minutes. Plus noone can seem to answer the fact that Flash would be able to steal Runners speed. Its been said that FLash would be overloaded, but no proof of that has been posted of Flash ever being overloaded with speed.
good point

Everywhere means everywhere... To convince me, you'd have to show him in multiple places at exactly the same time. Even cosmic beings exaggerate. The picture clearly shows that he runs around the city in circuits. Meaning that he is not everywhere, just fast enough that he tours the entire city in a very very short amount of time. So that normal crime cannot happen, because Flash will be there before it can be finished. But the Runner is not some human. He's fast enough to at least rival Kingdom Come Flash, if he is not actually faster. And the blasting power difference is pretty huge.

Flash recently failed to drain Velocity... The power backing her was too much for Wally, so she kept running when he tried. Power Primordial is as close to an infinite amount of backing power as anyone is going to get. Runner stops for no one!

Well in the Runner Sufer vs JLA thread, it hasnt even been proven that Runner is faster than Wally. Plus as stated before, isnt Barry the fastest runner in Marvel?

http://img180.imageshack.us/img180/2691/jla80kebbin200jt5gh.th.jpg
http://img180.imageshack.us/img180/761/flashv2152045vp5kp.th.jpg
http://img180.imageshack.us/img180/3074/flash2placesatonce7zl.th.jpg

Originally posted by jrodslam
Well in the Runner Sufer vs JLA thread, it hasnt even been proven that Runner is faster than Wally. Plus as stated before, isnt Barry the fastest runner in Marvel?

http://img180.imageshack.us/img180/2691/jla80kebbin200jt5gh.th.jpg
http://img180.imageshack.us/img180/761/flashv2152045vp5kp.th.jpg
http://img180.imageshack.us/img180/3074/flash2placesatonce7zl.th.jpg
barry since when?

Its kinda hard to actually show Kinngdom Come Flash being everywhere at once. Why would Spectre need to exaggerate? KC Flash was pure living speed force energy. Is that the best anyone can come up with? Exaggeration on Spectres behalf?

Originally posted by jrodslam
Well in the Runner Sufer vs JLA thread, it hasnt even been proven that Runner is faster than Wally. Plus as stated before, isnt Barry the fastest runner in Marvel?

http://img180.imageshack.us/img180/2691/jla80kebbin200jt5gh.th.jpg
http://img180.imageshack.us/img180/761/flashv2152045vp5kp.th.jpg
http://img180.imageshack.us/img180/3074/flash2placesatonce7zl.th.jpg
You know that even normal flash can full that off

Going at mach speeds

Originally posted by kgkg
barry since when?

Quasar #17 i believe.

i have that comic.

how so?

Runner is not even racing , and Mak becomes 10000X times faster in later issues.

Originally posted by kgkg
You know that even normal flash can full that off

Going at mach speeds

That is normal Flash. I was just trying to show that "normal Flash" even has the ability to be more than 2 places at once.

Kingdom Come FLash was living speed force which is >>>>current Flash. If Spectre says hes everywhere at once, why do people say hes exaggerating? Is it so hard to believe if "normal" Flash can do it?

Originally posted by jrodslam
That is normal Flash. I was just trying to show that "normal Flash" even has the ability to be more than 2 places at once.

Kingdom Come FLash was living speed force which is >>>>current Flash. If Spectre says hes everywhere at once, why do people say hes exaggerating? Is it so hard to believe if "normal" Flash can do it?
I think if someone at mach speed can do such thinks it won't be hard for people going at light speed, or close to do similar things

You know what I mean.

I don't know jack about KC flash so I won't comment on this

Originally posted by kgkg
I think if someone at mach speed can do such thinks it won't be hard for people going at light speed, or close to do similar things

You know what I mean.

I don't know jack about KC flash so I won't comment on this

It was mentioned because KC Flash was everywhere at once. 24/7 with no rest. We all know what current Flash is able to do when tapped into the speedforce. KC Flash is made up of the speed force energy. And able to fly as well. It hasnt even been proven that Runner is faster than normal Flash.

They didnt go into great detail about the characters in Kingdom Come. Just briefed us on what the other main heroes were doing.

I'm not sure on how accurate this is but it was said that "Barry threw the Galactic Marathon to save people."

Because i dont have the comic yet, i dont really know how true that is.

Originally posted by jrodslam
It was mentioned because KC Flash was everywhere at once. 24/7 with no rest. We all know what current Flash is able to do when tapped into the speedforce. KC Flash is made up of the speed force energy. And able to fly as well. It hasnt even been proven that Runner is faster than normal Flash.

They didnt go into great detail about the characters in Kingdom Come. Just briefed us on what the other main heroes were doing.
What are Flash feats without the speed force?

Runner has traveled Galaxies in no time.

Last time I check Flash was still in near light speed (after accelerating then going to the Speed force)

Of Kingdom flash is indeed Greater than Speed Force, and is everywhere else? What does he do in the comics?

I heard someone k.o’ed him

Originally posted by jrodslam
I'm not sure on how accurate this is but it was said that "Barry threw the Galactic Marathon to save people."

Because i dont have the comic yet, i dont really know how true that is.
Barry won

Well we assume it is him

And Runner isn't running, and Mak was very close

Mak gets a lot faster in fact so fast that he can't control himself and everyone is frozen in time.

he was never koed in kingdom

Originally posted by supremthor
he was never koed in kingdom
so what happens there is no crime in kingdom etc , he defeats enemies before any action takes places?

No crime in Keystone city. Everywhere else is still pretty much open game I guess.

Originally posted by 8bitChris
No crime in Keystone city. Everywhere else is still pretty much open game I guess.

Basically.

In the final battle, Flash was ko'd, but it was never shown how.

Let me guess...... a banana peeling !!!

Originally posted by ImmortalOne
Let me guess...... a banana peeling !!!

Hardly funny.

Hardly trying to make it funny ......

ppl often dont understand. when KC flash was mentioned as existing on every plane, it wasnt meant in an omnipresent context.(even tho he was such that he could prob. do that by running everywhere if he wanted to), but rather becuz he exists in a vibrational state, he literally was vibrating to the frequencies or every and all dimnesnios simultaneously. thats why A.) he was a blur even when standing still. B.) he was able to see that guy that the spectre rendered invisible to everyone else(spectre even commented somthing to the effect of, "how can one hide from someone who exists on every plane." and C.) when he spoke harldy anyone could make out what he wass saying becuase the frequency of his voice was too high and D.) he would make comments before someone finshied asking a question. IMO KC flash is an idealized version of the reverse flash. meaning that just reverse he probably exists a few microsecs in the future. thats why both thier speech patterns are shown to be echoed in thier thought bubbles. but to reiterate, this flash is not omnipotent.


as far as who is faster, i simply dont know. the runner is an elder of the universe and speed is his thing, even speeds beyond warp, and hyper space, even time. plus he doesnt have the luxury of the Flashes of tapping into a speed force, he just runs fast and thats all there is to it. so even tho the flashes have a cooler and more developed history i would have to say a tie

Originally posted by kgkg
Mak gets a lot faster in fact so fast that he can't control himself and everyone is frozen in time. Sounds a bit like KC Flash. . .

Sounds like....... yeah KC Flash !!

two words, one creature.... super sonic

How is KC Flash that powerful when he couldn't even contain the prisoners of the Gulag with the help of Green Lantern and Power Girl?

Heres a Cool story about tha runner wit the Speed Force http://marvelite.prohosting.com/surfer/fanfic/cpu/issue13/eldersquest7.html

Originally posted by K Von Doom
How is KC Flash that powerful when he couldn't even contain the prisoners of the Gulag with the help of Green Lantern and Power Girl?
PIS

Originally posted by King KAM
two words, one creature.... super sonic No where near either of these two.

yeah Kingdom Come was really a story about Superman and Captain Marvel they couldn't have Flash end the story.

Originally posted by Parallex
Heres a Cool story about tha runner wit the Speed Force http://marvelite.prohosting.com/surfer/fanfic/cpu/issue13/eldersquest7.html
nicccccccccccce even the runner wants the speed force but it would appear him and surfer at max speed could not enter it.

trying to answer as many questions as possible here:

Reguarding KC Flash's powers: "I have owerheard Flash described as a man too fast to be contained by one plane of existance. Apparently, entire strata of reality are open to him." This is said by Norman Mckay one panel before the Flash reaches into a separate plane of existance (while remaining in ours) and pulling Norman into ours.

This would suggest that the flash has become so fast that the laws of physics no longer apply to Flash (as suggested by his flight) and given his ability to shift between dimentions Flash could simply take a single step into a plain of existance much smaller than our own and then step out again anywhere within our's, making a race with ANYONE pointless as they would be forced to actually travel through our world.

KC Flash being KO'ed: not so much KO'ed as subdued, can't say why, perhaps Thunder and Lighting's powers are magical and Flash (like Superman) has problems with magic. Another possibility is the interferance of a higher power? Perhaps he loaned some of his speed to his daughter which slowed him down enough to make him vulnerible?

Why didn't KC Flash crush the uprising on his own: Well that would've been rather anti climactic now wouldn't it?

I don't know much about Runner, I'm not terribly fond of the Marvel universe but just thought I'd answer the questions people have asked about the Flash as best I could.

Why the red streaks in the pictures?: how else do you show him?

Originally posted by Creshosk
No where near either of these two.
someones been drinkin.....

KC Flash is strong compared to superman he is as strong as a ten year old so how strong is the runner...

The Runner punked the Silver Surfer like it was no big deal.

I'd say that's pretty strong.

Originally posted by lifeisaglich
KC Flash is strong compared to superman he is as strong as a ten year old so how strong is the runner...

First off, Flash's strongest punch now is probably equal to Superman's or maybe even stronger. KC would most likely be the same.

Are you saying Superman makes his strength look like a ten year old's? Your words are kinda scrambled and i dont quite understand them.

KC Flash wins easily. He's the embodiment of speed, all the runner is is just a user.

If KC Flash was godlike, why didnt he stop the nukes even before they launched...PIS?

He wasnt the main character of the story. It was up to Superman or Captain Marvel to do. It wasnt Flash's place in the story to do so.

Jrodslam, if thats the reason, then not only is that PIS but very poor PIS

I mean, at least have it so that Flash is on another planet at the time or something to the effect that he doesn't care for mortal welfare anymore so that its understandable that he doesnt disarm the nukes

but to make him the protector of people and a godlike one at that and at the same time not have him save countless lives when it should be possible, that's just nonsense

the runner backhands champion and thanos just because he gets bored.

Well MB, you have to look at the bigger picture. Anyone of the heroes were well capable of disarming the nuke. I mean it was onmly one. But you have to realize the climatic battle that was taking place.

Flash didnt even know about the nuke as well as all the other heroes who were fighting. Also, when Superman used his vison to see the nuke from above, Flash was already ko'd. Even if he wasnt, i doubt he would have seen it the same time Superman did. I dont think it was PIS at all.

They neded a climatic ending to save the World. Captain Marvel was fighting mind control, but came through in the end. Perfect ending.

KC Flash is overrated.

Originally posted by 8bitChris
KC Flash is overrated.

Originally posted by 8bitChris
KC Flash is overrated.

you are an idiot...

No, i'm not; but you are a jack @ss for saying so.

Name some KC Flash feats that will blow me away? If the guy is everywhere at once i'm positive he would be defending more than one city.

Why is everyone calling it PIS? Maybe KC Flash isn't as great as this board makes him out to be.

Let's have some feats. Then i'll consider changing my mind. Feats that normal Flash doesn't do.

Originally posted by 8bitChris
No, i'm not; but you are a jack @ss for saying so.

Name some KC Flash feats that will blow me away? If the guy is everywhere at once i'm positive he would be defending more than one city.

Why is everyone calling it PIS? Maybe KC Flash isn't as great as this board makes him out to be.

Let's have some feats. Then i'll consider changing my mind. Feats that normal Flash doesn't do. Barry was faster than everyone in Marvel. Wally>Barry, except in terms of hero-ness, and KC is greater than that.

"Buried Alien" does not = Barry Allen.

Barry Allen is gone.

Originally posted by 8bitChris
"Buried Alien" does not = Barry Allen.

Barry Allen is gone. That was very much Barry.. and either way KC Flash exists in multiples dimensions/times/realities whatever at once, so he did protect more than one city.

Originally posted by Juntai
That was very much Barry.. and either way KC Flash exists in multiples dimensions/times/realities whatever at once, so he did protect more than one city.

Uh...no. That wasn't Barry Allen. It was a tribute to Barry Allen and an inside joke. Barry Allen is either one with the Speedforce (Flash Annual 11) or in DC's Heaven(Green Arrow 7). Take your pick. He is definately not in the Marvel U.

And please provide some evidence of KC Flash existing in all dimensions? All we have no is "he said, she said" and quite frankly, that doesn't hold up very well.

Originally posted by Juntai
Barry was faster than everyone in Marvel. Wally>Barry, except in terms of hero-ness, and KC is greater than that.
Let me debate that in the hero-ness sector Wally has already exceeded his uncle.
Yeah he still has the bravado attitude, but he has done plenty things:
He took Glimmer of Wonderworld to the Earth, without Flash help Glimmer wouldn't be able to transform Earth inhabitants into powerful superhumans to challenge Mageddon.
Flash raced to the end of time to outspeed Death.
When still unexperienced into using the SF energy he entered with Savitar in the SF Dimension just to save his friends, family and the citizens from Savitar's menace.
Wally also was fighting alongside Jay Garrick and JSA VS the 5th Dim. Imp that created havok on Keystone City.
Also Jay already stated Barry would have been proud of him.

Originally posted by K3VIL
Let me debate that in the hero-ness sector Wally has already exceeded his uncle.
He hasn't given his life to save all creation.

Originally posted by 8bitChris
And please provide some evidence of KC Flash existing in all dimensions? All we have no is "he said, she said" and quite frankly, that doesn't hold up very well.

gee I'm sure glad you read my last post. (and FYI that was sarcasm) At roughly a mid point in the story, flash grabs Norman McCay and pulls him out of the Ethereal realm that the Spectre had moved him to.

A lot of people don't seem to realize that the Spectre did more than just render Norman McCay invisible, he moved him into a different dimension, most likly the realm of the Gods and the dead (as noted by his ability to actually SEE the gods and hear them talking, and his conversation with Deadman who normally requires a host.

And to answer master bruce's earlier question, Flash was subdued at the time (Thunder and lightning had him contained in what looks like a force feild of some kind) and unable to do anything about it. To me, given Flash's powers, Thunder and Lightning's power must be magical in nature, that the only logical way anyone could have stopped him.

thanks SLythis for clearing that up

Originally posted by 8bitChris
Uh...no. That wasn't Barry Allen. It was a tribute to Barry Allen and an inside joke. Barry Allen is either one with the Speedforce (Flash Annual 11) or in DC's Heaven(Green Arrow 7). Take your pick. He is definately not in the Marvel U.

And please provide some evidence of KC Flash existing in all dimensions? All we have no is "he said, she said" and quite frankly, that doesn't hold up very well.

Well to the Marvel writers, that was supposedly Flash. If you wanna call it a tribute, then fine. However, it was Barry Allen indeed. Amnesia saying "Buried Alien", same costume, and from another universe? Those were the signs right there. Youre right. Hes not in the Marvel Universe anymore, but he was for that brief amount of time.

Kingdom Come provides us with all the evidence you ask. Its not just "he said, she said" Spectre said it himself. Spectre and Norman were not even part of the plane of the World everyone else were on. They were on-looking as spirits. Purely spectators.

"A man too fast to be contained by one plane of existance. Apparently, entire strata of reality are open to him."

"So settled am I in my role as a spirit....that I have forgotten that fact!"

I holds up because Flash actually crossed over to another plane of existance and pulled Norman out of it into the current plane everyone else was in. What more evidence would you need?

Originally posted by jrodslam
Well to the Marvel writers, that was supposedly Flash. If you wanna call it a tribute, then fine. However, it was Barry Allen indeed. Amnesia saying "Buried Alien", same costume, and from another universe? Those were the signs right there. Youre right. Hes not in the Marvel Universe anymore, but he was for that brief amount of time.

Kingdom Come provides us with all the evidence you ask. Its not just "he said, she said" Spectre said it himself. Spectre and Norman were not even part of the plane of the World everyone else were on. They were on-looking as spirits. Purely spectators.

"A man too fast to be contained by one plane of existance. Apparently, entire strata of reality are open to him."

"So settled am I in my role as a spirit....that I have forgotten that fact!"

I holds up because Flash actually crossed over to another plane of existance and pulled Norman out of it into the current plane everyone else was in. What more evidence would you need?


It wasn't Barry Allen. If anything it was a Barry Allen clone. DC would never acknowledge that as Barry Allen. If or when they do, i'll be the first to say I was wrong. However, copyright laws prohibit that character of ever being Barry Allen. DC would sue the pants off Marvel for using Flash. As much as you want to be Barry Allen, it was nothing but a tribute to a great character and the birth of a new character called Fast Forward.

How come it's PIS that Flash gets knocked out and not PIS that the Runner loses in that Galactic Marathon away? I'm sensing a strong bias. Not to mention that "personification of speed" is just a B list character from an Alternate Future who got knocked out and didn't really live up to the hype that the Spectre put on him.

I love Wally, he's probably one of my top 5 favorite characters. I just don't see him taking the Runner.

Originally posted by 8bitChris
It wasn't Barry Allen. If anything it was a Barry Allen clone. DC would never acknowledge that as Barry Allen. If or when they do, i'll be the first to say I was wrong. However, copyright laws prohibit that character of ever being Barry Allen. DC would sue the pants off Marvel for using Flash. As much as you want to be Barry Allen, it was nothing but a tribute to a great character and the birth of a new character called Fast Forward.

How come it's PIS that Flash gets knocked out and not PIS that the Runner loses in that Galactic Marathon away? I'm sensing a strong bias. Not to mention that "personification of speed" is just a B list character from an Alternate Future who got knocked out and didn't really live up to the hype that the Spectre put on him.

I love Wally, he's probably one of my top 5 favorite characters. I just don't see him taking the Runner.

Of course copyright laws wouldnt allow Marvel to put the name "Flash" or "Barry Allen" in the comic without being sued. Everyone seems to know its Barry Allen but you. True its never been officially stated as so, but can you tell me anywhere theres an official Fast Forward bio? No because hes only made 2 appearances. 1 as Buried Alien and the other as Fast Forward.

Marvel just played it smart. Instead of Barry Allen, les give him amnesia and have him call himself Buried Alien. Les rip his suit instead of giving him the full costume. Tribute? Probably. But theres no other appearances, and no history on the character for a reason.

Who called it PIS that Flash got knocked out? I dont think it was. We dont even know what happened to him to even make that statement. It wasnt up to him to stop the nuke from hitting. It wasnt his place. In another thread, many people were even saying that Runner isnt faster than FLash. Feat wise and ability wise, Flash seemed to have him beat. What are some runner feats to prove other wise? Plus with the Flash speed stealing ability, theres no way Runner beats him. Some say Flash would get overloaded, but ive never seen him do so.

If DC doesn't acknowledge it as Barry Allen then it isn't canon. If it isn't canon then that is not the actual Barry Allen. That's all there is too it.

That would be like me drawing a stick figure in a Flash costume and naming it Bary Alen and saying Flash broke through to the second dimension. See where i'm getting? Flash is the fastest guy in the second dimension! My napkin proves he was there!

I don't think Flash could steal the Runners Speed. As far as I know, Flash hasn't been able to steal everyone's speed that he's tried to.

As of JLA/A there is no Speed Force in the Marvel Universe.

Hey man to me and everyone else who knows of the comic, we say its Barry Allen. Everyone but you that is.

Runner called him "The fastest man alive."
Quasar stated that "Hes an extra-dimensional. Perhaps from an alternate earth."

If you dont want to believe thats Barry, its your right man.

Whos speed has he tried to steal but failed to do so?

Originally posted by Creshosk
As of JLA/A there is no Speed Force in the Marvel Universe.

Who said anything about Speed Force?

Originally posted by jrodslam
Hey man to me and everyone else who knows of the comic, we say its Barry Allen. Everyone but you that is.

Runner called him "The fastest man alive."
Quasar stated that "Hes an extra-dimensional. Perhaps from an alternate earth."

If you dont want to believe thats Barry, its your right man.

Whos speed has he tried to steal but failed to do so?

Hey man, you're just being delusional. I know you want to believe with all your heart that that is Barry, and that Santa Claus is really real. Fact of the matter is, Barry is still kickin' it in the DCU and has made numerous appearances in the DCU since he "died" in the Crisis.

And I can't answer your second question because I don't know for sure. It was heresay. I might have put my foot in my mouth with that one.

I'm still right about Fast Forward though. We can't count all Fanfics as canon now can we?

Originally posted by 8bitChris
Hey man, you're just being delusional. I know you want to believe with all your heart that that is Barry, and that Santa Claus is really real. Fact of the matter is, Barry is still kickin' it in the DCU and has made numerous appearances in the DCU since he "died" in the Crisis.

I took my piss today, so the delusions arent in effect. And Santa is real depending on youre interpretation of "Santa". Barry is still kickin it in the DCU, but at that time, he was kickin it in the MU for 2 issues lol. Guess he found his way back to his dimension. Havent you ever noticed there were never any official bios for him from Marvel? Barry went home.

Barry didnt just "die" in the Crisis. He died by running himself out of existence in the Crisis. Out of existance from DC to Marvel.

Originally posted by 8bitChris
And I can't answer your second question because I don't know for sure. It was heresay. I might have put my foot in my mouth with that one.

I'm still right about Fast Forward though. We can't count all Fanfics as canon now can we?

Hey in all comics, theres only one "Fastest man Alive". And thats flash. In DC and Marvel. Dont you think DC could have sued Marvel for calling Buried Alien that. since that IS a DC nickname. Thats like them calling Iron Man "The Man of Steel" or Darerdevil "The Dark Knight".

Ahh well. Some like cucumbers better than pickles.

No! He went back in time and turned into the lightning bolt that struck him and turned him into Flash in the first place!

Originally posted by 8bitChris
No! He went back in time and turned into the lightning bolt that struck him and turned him into Flash in the first place!

Uumm yea. Thats out of existance. He was the lightning bolt. He wasnt in the current plane of existance.

If I wasn't still a newbie I could post a link about where Barry is, anyways just add the normal stuff on the front and add on the back

hyperborea.org/flash/wheres-barry

http://www.marvunapp.com/Appendix/fastforw.htm

Originally posted by masterbruce
thanks SLythis for clearing that up

No problem, it's annoying when people beat around the bush.

Regaurding Buried Alien: as far as I can tell he is but isn't Barry Allen, in the Marvel U you're given a nudge and a wink that hes an original character but the DCU (ofcourse) says nothing about it.

Given the nature of Barry's "demise" it's highly possible that he ended up in the Marvel world for a short time, but in the it's a matter of point of veiw, like jrodslam said "And Santa is real depending on youre interpretation of "Santa". "