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Now that Episode 3 is finished the question that nags at me is this: Was Anakin's destiny as the chosen one set out before we ever got to ROTS?

What I mean by that is, was it already preordained that he would turn to the dark side and have a reign of terror before he killed Sideous? Or could his destiny been that he remained a Jedi and killed Sideous from that position in life.

It can be argued that if the Jedi council were more accommodating to Anakin Skywalker that perhaps he wouldnt have relied so heavily on Palpatine for advice. But then again, maybe he HAD to become evil in order to fulfill the prophecy?

What say you to this?





I should add that I havent been on since the end of May, so if you guys have already discussed this merge this baby please.

Hard to see the future is....our fate is what we make it...this one is deep JP...Destiny, Fate...is life preordained and orderly beyond what we can see?

Qui-Gon was certain he was the Chosen One, everyone else was on the fence: "Okay he hasn't done anything evil or stupid yet...he might be the Chosen One."

His love for Luke finally outweighed 18 - 20 years of the Dark Side. Is that what the Force determined would occur eventually? If Luke had died, would it have been Leia, reminding him of Padme that made the diff?

Originally posted by Jedi Priestess
Now that Episode 3 is finished the question that nags at me is this: Was Anakin's destiny as the chosen one set out before we ever got to ROTS?

What I mean by that is, was it already preordained that he would turn to the dark side and have a reign of terror before he killed Sideous? Or could his destiny been that he remained a Jedi and killed Sideous from that position in life.

It can be argued that if the Jedi council were more accommodating to Anakin Skywalker that perhaps he wouldnt have relied so heavily on Palpatine for advice. But then again, maybe he HAD to become evil in order to fulfill the prophecy?

What say you to this?





I should add that I havent been on since the end of May, so if you guys have already discussed this merge this baby please.

If we discussed it... You should know to search before hand.

As in the movie Yoda himself said that the Prophecy could have been misread. From that point I believe the Prophecy was read to be that he would be the Jedi to bring balance back to the Force. Misread being that he could be the one to tip the balance of the Force.

We all know though that he destroys the Sith which is the true prophecy.

Ok Ken, dont look at it so literally. What I am getting at is something that is more shades of gray as opposed to black and white.

This really should be that hard for everyone because most of the SW fans are always trying to read into the story.

What I am asking is, could Anakin fulfilled his destiny if he HADNT turned to the dark side?

Originally posted by Jedi Priestess
Ok Ken, dont look at it so literally. What I am getting at is something that is more shades of gray as opposed to black and white.

This really should be that hard for everyone because most of the SW fans are always trying to read into the story.

What I am asking is, could Anakin fulfilled his destiny if he HADNT turned to the dark side?

That's a What If, it doesn't matter either way. He DID turn to the Dark Side, we'll NEVER know what would have happened otherwise.

Dooku would be dead, Palpatine would have no apprentice (no Anakin/Vader) no need for him to reveal himself then. Thus no way for Anakin to fulfill the prophecy. End of story.

yeah, i think the council wanted him to destroy sidious not mace.

First of all, LUKE IS NOT THE CHOSEN ONE! I've read in many threads that some people believe Luke brought balance and that makes him the chosen one, but that's bull. Anakin was the Chosen one. The prophecy states that a being concived of medacloreans would bring balance, (as hinted at in TPM) which makes Anakin the chosen one.

anyways.....Yes, I do believe the entire thing was "The chosen ones fate". It was Anakin's destiny to become Darth Vader and to over take Palpitine. He may have reeked much havoc before he brought balance, but the prophecy was fufilled to the letter.

Let's take your hypothesis and say that Anakin didn't turn. That would have had two paths of destiny:

1. He stayed at the Jedi Temple and waited for Mace Windu to return
2. He went to the Chancellor's chambers and helped Windu capture or kill Palpatine.

If he waited for Windu, he may have sat in that room a long time. Sidious obviously sucked Windu in and could have overpowered him at will (my posts in other threads do not count here). What would Anakin do then. Would he have waited, contacted Yoda, or went on his own anyway to see what took the Jedi posse so long?

If he helped capture of kill Sidious, end of story. Balance of the Force restored.

yes he could have.

he could have stood there and watched mace kill palps.

since he was the one who got close enough to palps to learn the truth,
and he was the one who revealed that truth, anakin would have still been
the catalyst for the destruction of the sith. so no, i dont believe turning to the
darkside was part of his destiny, but the horrible side effect of denying his destiny. once he turns back and anakin is reborn, he fulfils the destiny he should have fulfilled 20 years previous.

Hmmmm, here's another thought...

At one point, I thought I heard the prophecy quoted as "bringing balance to the force" (in TPM maybe?)

Only in III did I hear Obi Wan say "It was said you would destroy the Sith, not join them!" Perhaps that is just what he wanted to BELIEVE the prophecy meant?

So, if Anakin was just to "bring balance to the Force" and we think "out of the box" and play with other things that were said....

1. I think that Darth Plagues was Sideous' master. He had an evil grin when he mentioned the apprentice killing Plagues and later says that his master taught him all about the Force (having previously said that Plauges "taught his apprentice everything he knew".
2. Palps said that Darth Plagues could influence the midiclorians (sp?) to "create life".
3. Go one step further with that... what if Plagues did that to create Anakin?
4. There were a lot of Jedi and only two Sith.
5. At the end of III, we only see two Jedi (Obi Wan & Yoda). There may have been others, but Yoda sensed no one and we can only go by what we see if we stick strictly to the movies. We know there are two Sith (Vader and Sidious).

Sounds like "balance" to me

oh please lets not go down that road again

GL stated clearly that the sith destroy balance, they dont play into it

Sorry, I've only seen the movies, not interviews and such. I was speaking strictly from what I observed in the movies.

Originally posted by PVS
oh please lets not go down that road again

GL stated clearly that the sith destroy balance, they dont play into it

I don't care what GL says. I care about the movies :P LOLOLOL for me, balance is Shadow and light, Day and night, Man and Female. I think he brought balance by going to the darkside and at the end, something like, enough of sith rule and BAM down the hole with palp

Entirely incorrect view on things. What GL says is canon, since it comes from the creator's mouth. The Sith even existing means the Force is thrown off balance; only when they are entirely destroyed and out of existance can the Force be balanced.



Anakin, I think, was fated to fall. There was no other way; even if Palpatine had not managed to turn him had he not gone, Mace would have been killed (but let's not start THAT discussion...), Anakin was already on his way down the Dark Path. I believe he began his fall as soon as he did not kill Palpatine when the Sith Lord made himself obvious.

i know this is going down the road of ''what ifs'' buuuuuuuuuuuut if the sith ever returned ,would there be another chosen one since ani died

The Sith can't return.

Originally posted by Captain REX
Entirely incorrect view on things. What GL says is canon, since it comes from the creator's mouth.

does it not amaze you how many fanboys cant grasp such a simple concept as that?

It really makes no difference either way.. he was the chosen one.. the one who would bring balance to the force.. thats all that matters.. the how & why arent as big a deal the FACT that he IS the one to bring balance.. however one cannot disregard the notion of free will.. it was a CHOICE anakin made.. that comes from GL's mouth as well.. that it was a choice to turn.. had he not turned when he did then yes at some point he still would have killed Sids.. it just would have happened in a different way.. he was FATED to bring balance.. his CHOICE only delayed his destiny IMO

Yes, PVS, yes it does...

I agree, it didn't make difference if he was evil or good, the choice of the Dark Side delayed it, he was still the Chosen One. However, he was destined to make that choice, it just wasn't predicted that he would.

I don't think he was preordained to fall to the dark side. If he was fated to do so...where is the free agency, personal choice? Wasn't that the whole point?

Personal choice? You haven't been reading enough of '1984'

Big brotha aside...

It has been Lucas' intent to make Anakin's fall personal choice.

I've always thought that had he merely killed Sidious when he had the saber to his throat, balance would be restored.
i wonder if he would have been expelled from the order when everyone found out about him and padme and their child and what would happen to them next
imagine the skywalker family without metal limbs intheir full power vs. obi-wan, mace, and yoda...
i must write now...

Nice to see a topic that has brought forth some serious discussion.

A few things I want to note tho, when I started this topic it wasn't in the vein of "what if" per se, it was more of a question of whether or not it was NECESSARY for Anakin to become a Sith in order to fulfill his destiny. My apologies, if the topic seemed to read the other way.

I think that Mace could have taken Palpatine, I really do, therefore that makes me wonder if Anakin had just stayed in the Temple if it would have made a difference since it was HE and not Mace that was going to fulfill the prophecy.

Back to work I go.....

I believe the clues are in the films
...Anakin had to become Vader it was his destiny, foreseen by Palpatine

...it is when Luke arrives on the scene again in the OT that Palpatine has trouble "reading" Vader's feelings.

Vader/Anakin is affected by Luke initially to his force sensitivity, then in ESB, felt some need to bring Luke into his sphere of influence in an attempt to kill Palpatine ( and rule as Sith father and Sith Apprentice son?).

Finally, in ROTJ, when emotions overule his Dark Side obedience to his master, the Chosen One returns (Return of the Jedi?) and restores balance to the force.

it was't his destiny, it was palpatine manipulating him for years and the jedi growing distrustful of both of them.
Anakin didn't have to become a sith, that just happened and the force had to make up for it and try and fix everything

If the Chosen One brings balance to the Force - than i believe that he could of fulfilled the prophesy on either side, and my reason for that is because good cannot exist without evil

well even if he did kill palpatine on the lightside, i think he may have gone dark

At the time of Episode III I don't believe Anakin was strong enough in the Force to take out Palpatine and destroy the Sith. But this is the fault of the Jedi - they held him back, didn't let him become all he could have. He wanted "more" but the Jedi couldn't (or didn't) give it to him.

This whole topic is kind of a 'what if' thing though, because, at least in my opinion, the whole situation (the whole saga) is the work of destiny. Everything was fated to happen the way it did. Or was it? hmm... yes, I'm starting to see the conundrum here. It's mindboggling really.

If it was Anakin's 'fate' to destroy the Sith, was it also his fate to become a Sith? Or did Palpatine interupt destiny's work and 'the universe', the 'higher powers' had to change their plan? hmm... I'm getting that strange feeling you get when you start to think about life and your significance in the greater scheme of things... it's rather unsettling.

Let me think about this...

Anakin was the Chosen One, there is no doubt about that. And the Chosen One, according to a prophecy is the one 'who will bring balance to the Force'. So it is Anakin's destiny to destroy the Sith. Which he does. You'd think the easiest way for this to happen would be for Anakin to be trained as a Jedi (the most powerful Jedi) so he can just take the Sith out. Which is probably what should have happened, and what would have happened had the Jedi not been dumbarses and follow a stupid code and instead follow the Force, like Qui Gon did.

So then, I guess my opinion is that no, it wasn't his destiny to become a Sith. Because that would kind of make the whole thing a bit pointless...

I'm gonna bring this up in here also as it kinda relates to destiny as well... It is inferred (not exactly said) that the Chosen One would be concieved by the midichlorians (eww, the m word). And it is also inferred that Palpatine (or Plageuis, whatever, it doesn't matter) is able to 'influence the midichlorians to create life'. Actually, that's not an inference, he flat-out says that. What we are left to infer is that Palpatine influenced the midichlorians to create Anakin (who was concieved by the midichlorians).

Now, was this also the destiny of the Chosen One? That the Chosen One - the one who would destroy the Sith for good - would in fact be created by the Sith themselves... ?

It's late now, and all this thinking is too drastic a change on KMC for my poor brain to be able to handle... I shall retire for the night.

I think, had Ani been trained by Qui Gon or some other, wiser Jedi Master than Obi Wan, he would've never turned. Also I think he should have been discovered earlier before he grew attached to his mother, which was what really truned him to the DS IMO.

Devil Dodo wrote: Anakin was the Chosen One, there is no doubt about that. And the Chosen One, according to a prophecy is the one 'who will bring balance to the Force'. So it is Anakin's destiny to destroy the Sith. Which he does. You'd think the easiest way for this to happen would be for Anakin to be trained as a Jedi (the most powerful Jedi) so he can just take the Sith out. Which is probably what should have happened, and what would have happened had the Jedi not been dumbarses and follow a stupid code and instead follow the Force, like Qui Gon did.


Devil D, life is never easy and is filled with paths we can't forsee. Is it possible that the most powerful Jedi is only equally balanced with the most powerful Sith? If we view the Force as a cosmic balance, time has no meaning...it is infinite time, so it does not matter (in the overall scheme of the SW cosmos) how long it took for balance to be restored, just that it would eventually occur.

SithHappens is right. Anakin should have been trained by Qui-Gon. Obi-Wan was stupid. He allowed Anakin the same mistakes that he, Obi, himself made. Qui-gon on the other hand, being a jedi master and in tune with the force, would've sensed when Anakin slaughtered the Sand people, and he'd'a b*tch-slapped anakin around like nothing. Tho, Padme could've told obi-wan something along the lines of "I fear for anakin, he may be starting down the path of what jedi call the dark side, he killed tuskin raiders, even the innocent children."

Obi wan was a crappy master. the others on the council would've noticed the gradual change from good to evil in Anakin.

and shadowking, your starting to get "outta there" with all the talk about balance and forseeing stuff, so lets bring it down a notch.

While were at it here,

maybe its possible that plageuis forsaw his own death and created anakin to get revenge on palpatine.

crazy, huh?

Originally posted by ShadowKing
Devil D, life is never easy and is filled with paths we can't forsee. Is it possible that the most powerful Jedi is only equally balanced with the most powerful Sith? If we view the Force as a cosmic balance, time has no meaning...it is infinite time, so it does not matter (in the overall scheme of the SW cosmos) how long it took for balance to be restored, just that it would eventually occur.
whoa, dude... that's deep. It's too early in the morning for that kinda talk...

Though I agree - I think. But what's all this talk about time? That's kinda random.

I disagree with those who think Anakin didn't have the skills to defeat Palpatine. Besides, he could have just sliced him with his saber when Palpatine was unarmed.

I just meant...(and good morning over there on your side of the planet) that in the statement you made about how it would have been easier if Anakin were trained without holding him back he would have defeated Palps. I don't think in the "legend" of the chosen one it said that he would bring balance quickly.

Ahh, yes, I get your point. And I agree, all that had to happen was for the Chosen One to restore balance. It didn't say when it would happen, how long it would take, or what would happen in the events leading to the restoration of balance...

As Master Yoda said (not exactly) "misread the prophecy could've been." So could the part in which "the balance of the force." As I have read and seen, few jedi survived alond w/ luke, obi, and yoda, though not mentioned, they survived. (be it youngling, padawans, apprentices, knights and master, they survived maybe not 100 but a few.)

yes 2 sith, and many people believe that it has to be 2 sith=2 jedi, but not nessacerely, which this brings me to the error/misreading in the "balance of the force"

though 2 sith may weigh 500 whatevers on the force
and 30 jedi could weigh 500 whatevers on the foce making it balanced.

balance to the force does not mean "body count" BUT will.

and the prophecy states he will bring balance to ther force, which is what any/vader did, while he lived (my prevoius paragragh tells MY OPINION) but wen vadar parished balance of the force was shifted to the light side, proving the prophecy true for anakin, becuase when he lived balance was equal, when he perished light side won.


(NONE OF what i have said is true, just opinion, you can critisize me, but remember its all opinion except!!! other jedi remaining from episode 3-6, becuase there were a few. THATS TRUE)

Actually, Aduruth, pretty sure that the Jedi were eradicated, with the exception of Yoda and Obi-Wan.

Balance was served when the two Sith Lords were eliminated; Palpatine was hurled into the pit, while Vader turned to the Light Side and died. Presence of Sith brings imbalance.

Well rex id have to disagree, remember there were many other jedi on many different planets wen rev. of the sith took place, and id have to say a few would surrvive. but once again, i guess its wat side you want more, light or dark,

Ok I think we did the whole balance thing in at least 4 other threads.......can we stay on the topic of Anakin's need or not to become a Sith in order to fulfill his destiny please.

he needed. to be honost i dont hae a resean, its just one of thjose thing that you "feel"