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--Congressman Threatens Islamic Holy Sites--
The Associated Press
Monday, July 18, 2005; 8:25 AM


DENVER -- A Colorado congressman told a radio show host that the U.S. could "take out" Islamic holy sites if Muslim fundamentalist terrorists attacked the country with nuclear weapons.

Rep. Tom Tancredo made his remarks Friday on WFLA-AM in Orlando, Fla. His spokesman stressed he was only speaking hypothetically.


Talk show host Pat Campbell asked the Littleton Republican how the country should respond if terrorists struck several U.S. cities with nuclear weapons.

"Well, what if you said something like _ if this happens in the United States, and we determine that it is the result of extremist, fundamentalist Muslims, you know, you could take out their holy sites," Tancredo answered.

"You're talking about bombing Mecca," Campbell said.

"Yeah," Tancredo responded.

The congressman later said he was "just throwing out some ideas" and that an "ultimate threat" might have to be met with an "ultimate response."

Spokesman Will Adams said Sunday the four-term congressman doesn't support threatening holy Islamic sites but that Tancredo was grappling with the hypothetical situation of a terrorist strike deadlier than the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks.

"We have an enemy with no uniform, no state, who looks like you and me and only emerges right before an attack. How do we go after someone like that?" Adams said.

"What is near and dear to them? They're willing to sacrifice everything in this world for the next one. What is the pressure point that would deter them from their murderous impulses?" he said.

Tancredo is known in the House for his tough stand on immigration and had a 100 percent rating last year from the American Conservative Union his votes and positions on issues.

Mohammad Noorzai, coordinator of the Colorado Muslim Council and a native of Afghanistan, said Tancredo's remarks were radical and unrepresentative but that people in Tancredo's position need to watch their words when it comes to sacred religious sites and texts.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/07/18/AR2005071800284.html
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all i can say is that this is frightening, disgusting, creepy, and flatout racist.
this prick needs to either resign or be thrown out of office.

for the simple minded racist assclowns who are about to say "GOOD IDEA!!!"
how would you feel about our government blowing up the vatacan for the crimes of some christian exteremists? of coarse you wouldnt like that, because its DIFFERENT right? so please explain why. (just getting that crap out of the way)

anyway, discuss...

I won't go so far as to agree with the man, but I would be interested in knowing what "their" breaking point would be.

I agree with Cap Fantastic. I'm exactly supporting any action that would lead to the breaking point, but I'm interested in knowing what their breaking point is...

I don't think the Congressman truly meant that the United States should bomb Mecca so much as he was stating his desire to know what the terrorists find most precious so that we could deprive them of that.

could it have been any more clear?

the logic is, destroy what the terrorists hold sacred, regardless of who ELSE holds it sacred and how many innocents inhabit the place at the time. the killing would be indiscriminate and only serve as a symbolic message... which would make us ______________! (fill in the blank) \




*hint: it begins with a 't' , ends with an 's' and contains the letters: 'errorist'

Yes...well...you actually already are......you can call it "war" if yu liek but its just an attack on another country just what "terrorists" did to the US (of course they kind of got what there government was asking for...but thats a different matter)

no no no, the target is insurgents. im not saying the war is right, but (from what we know) there are no symbolic targets, and no willful killing of civilians. we just bomb wherever and whoever gets killed "oh well". but the fact stands that civilians and non-military locations are not purposely targeted (like i said, 'from what we know' ) . its not right, but its not terrorism either. if we bombed the mecca as a symbolic gesture, that is 100% terrorist activity.

Yes you are right....I guess...,,I am sorry.....although I don't see any moral difference but I guess there is one.....

Lonkalocios, you are new?

Originally posted by Kate_Lost
Lonkalocios, you are new?

Funny...."new" in this old "I am here for 2 years already"-way

And its name is Linkalicious

Originally posted by PVS
could it have been any more clear?

the logic is, destroy what the terrorists hold sacred, regardless of who ELSE holds it sacred and how many innocents inhabit the place at the time. the killing would be indiscriminate and only serve as a symbolic message... which would make us ______________! (fill in the blank) \




*hint: it begins with a 't' , ends with an 's' and contains the letters: 'errorist'

While I agree for the most part, the point I'm taking away from his comments are that bombing Mecca and Medina would break their will to fight. However, the truth of the matter is that destroying the religions holy sites will do little to stop the zeal with which these terrorists fight. In fact, I'm sure it would result in a strengthening of their resolve.

What this guy doesn't seem to be understanding is that this isn't a war against Islam. It's a war against people who take Islam too far.


But, the point of my first comment was that I would be interested in knowing what this mystical "breaking point" really would be. If this were a crusade for territory or slaves or money, then there would be an end point in view with all of this. But, religion isn't a tangable thing. (Which also proves my point about the congressmans comments.) This is a battle of ideologies; and if history is an indication, that doesn't go away...even after one side has been physically defeated.

I'm for what ever it takes............

Originally posted by debbiejo
I'm for what ever it takes............

Unfortunately, so are the terrorists.

Originally posted by Bardock42
Funny...."new" in this old "I am here for 2 years already"-way

And its name is Linkalicious

His

Originally posted by debbiejo
I'm for what ever it takes............

well, you just lost all my respect

Originally posted by Capt_Fantastic
Unfortunately, so are the terrorists.

So we should let them win and turn the world into a middle ages type muslim planet or what?

by Liberal I meant over tolerant, in some european counrties the "liberals" are rediculously tolerant. Ahh the poor disturbed muslim extremists, lets not deport them after all but give them some fine.

Originally posted by Bicnarok
So we should let them win and turn the world into a middle ages type muslim planet or what?

HELL NO!!!!! WE WILL WIN and turn the world into a middle ages CHRISTIAN planet!!!!

Originally posted by Linkalicious
His

Just making sure

Are gas stations considered holy meccas?

yes...OUR holy meccas unfortunately

Yep. When it's 11:44 with one minute left to pick up some Budweiser, I could care less what language they speak as long as they know how to run a debit card!

Originally posted by PVS
well, you just lost all my respect

Sorry...didn't know I had any of your respect...

I'm just sick of these terrorists getting away bulling every country they want...Not just the US.....If we get them thinking about what we could do, then maybe these Muslim countries will Pump up the Volume and do something more than they are to catch these terrorists...and stop the training of them......

I'm sick of these bullies.

Bullies...? Maybe... But US governmental foreign policy has been percieved too as bullying and is the instigating factor in the reaction from a fair few of these groups... Not condoning their actions though..

So what have the other countries done to deserve these terrorists attracts???I guess it's not a problem for them.....IT is a problem....And I'm for putting a cap on it...Other nations don't act like this...

They are angry people...It's in their blood....Here, we have the largest population in the US...living in the Det. Metro area.....they have anger issues about everything....even how they treat women....the boys are allowed to grow up undisciplined by their mother, while the girls are...Those little boys are spoiled little brats.....Of course I can't speak for all of them.....But I can speak for the ones around here...They are alway starting fights with everyone in the schools, and restaurants....They have a Superior complex....

Well, land occupation or political/military/religious affiliations usually...

"They are angry people...It's in their blood."

can you please get your racist bigot ass off the internet and give debbiejo her computer back?

Originally posted by PVS
"They are angry people...It's in their blood."

can you please get your racist bigot ass off the internet and give debbiejo her computer back?




OK....I'm back now........

They do throw salt shakers here at the Dunken Donuts......Yep they do...

Well if that does happen then Terrorism will increase a hell of a lot. I wonder what they are going to bomb after that.

And Capt, I don't think they have one, not unless its victory they can never be exterminated and nothing can convince them to stop... Well not really, these people want revenge doing something like that will only make them want revenge more. Even blowing up every city wouldn't help.

This is ridiculous. What kind of an idiot do you have to be to think that would work? All bombing Mecca would do is turn the entire Islamic population against the US.

Originally posted by Darth Revan
This is ridiculous. What kind of an idiot do you have to be to think that would work? All bombing Mecca would do is turn the entire Islamic population against the US.

Like I said...
If we get them thinking about what we could do, then maybe these Muslim countries will Pump up the Volume and do something more than they are to catch these terrorists...and stop the training of them......Yes, they turn a blind eye towards the training of them.

Sometimes threats work.........

OK...I'm done...I'll give debbiejo back her pc now.....She hates it when I take it away...

That is absurd. If we bomb Mecca, not only do we bomb the holy site of millions of innocents, but we sign our own death warrant. The counter-attack would be of a blood-thirsty rage which many wrongfully think is inside of every muslim right now.

Plus, the muslims help balance out against the christians and as long as we have religious people I don't want any one group taking over and destroying the planet with wacky ideas. shock

one of the reasons why Islam hates America so much is that they are allies with Israel.

never bomb any Muslims country, if that happened then all Muslims countries will rage a true war against America and its allies. Muslims do have other allies that aren't Muslim countries.

I believe the threat is more of a deterrent than something most are actually considering.

no one cannot play games with the Muslim world and expect to win. the Muslims are just waiting for America to make that mistake so they can have a excuse to attack them and their allies will agree with this. if America does bomb the Muslim world then it will be another world war instead of "war on terrorism," it will be the "war on the world." Muslim countries will get other countries involved in this. so the blame will be back on America for bombing Muslim countries for no reason, that is why America hasn't bombed them yet because another threat of war will be coming if that happened.

Originally posted by FeceMan
I believe the threat is more of a deterrent than something most are actually considering.

quit defending a threat dude. a threat is a threat. in fact, a publically announced threat such as this could only lead to more hatred and violence,
with no action at all. if you are comfortable with politicians who shoot their mouths off in bigot racist rants to be heard by millions, then thats your thing.
but it scares the shit out of me. whats worse is it seems that such scumbag hawks are saying these things to kind of test the waters of the american public, and guage future actions by our responses...or better yet, lack of response.

its not just a meaningless threat.

Originally posted by PVS
quit defending a threat dude. a threat is a threat. in fact, a publically announced threat such as this could only lead to more hatred and violence,
with no action at all. if you are comfortable with politicians who shoot their mouths off in bigot racist rants to be heard by millions, then thats your thing.
but it scares the shit out of me. whats worse is it seems that such scumbag hawks are saying these things to kind of test the waters of the american public, and guage future actions by our responses...or better yet, lack of response.

its not just a meaningless threat.
I will defend the threat if I feel like it. Yes, it could lead to more hatred and violence...or it could be seen the way the suicide bombers are seen: as fanatics that don't represent the whole of the population.

I also fail to see the 'bigot racist rant' here. Now, if he had spouted stuff about those 'raghead camel jockeys who aren't worth more than the sand upon which they stand'...I could see it.

Maybe this 'scumbag hawk' just sees the best way to halt terrorism in a threat of extreme retaliation.

Originally posted by FeceMan
I will defend the threat if I feel like it. Yes, it could lead to more hatred and violence...or it could be seen the way the suicide bombers are seen: as fanatics that don't represent the whole of the population.

I also fail to see the 'bigot racist rant' here. Now, if he had spouted stuff about those 'raghead camel jockeys who aren't worth more than the sand upon which they stand'...I could see it.

Maybe this 'scumbag hawk' just sees the best way to halt terrorism in a threat of extreme retaliation.

yes, because nothing works in thwarting terrorism than threatening extreme action. only when we actually COMMIT an extreem action they become angered and seek revenge. well, im not sure that i understand your logic then

so, if someone says "we should just bomb the mecca" in a terrorist attack, killing innocents and spitting in the face of one of the largest world religions, its all ok. so i guess if the terrorists where christian you would have no problem with the vatacan being bombed and the pope killed? oops...better avoid that question!!!

Originally posted by PVS
yes, because nothing works in thwarting terrorism than threatening extreme action. only when we actually COMMIT an extreem action they become angered and seek revenge. well, im not sure that i understand your logic then

so, if someone says "we should just bomb the mecca" in a terrorist attack, killing innocents and spitting in the face of one of the largest world religions, its all ok. so i guess if the terrorists where christian you would have no problem with the vatacan being bombed and the pope killed? oops...better avoid that question!!!
And when did I ever say that I agreed with the man's course of action? Did I say that it was good? Did I say that we should bomb Mecca?

All I did was try to understand his rationale.

Originally posted by FeceMan
And when did I ever say that I agreed with the man's course of action? Did I say that it was good? Did I say that we should bomb Mecca?

All I did was try to understand his rationale.

ok, let me rephrase the question so that you can stop avoiding the point.
what if the i.r.a., comprised of irish catholics, conducted another string of terrorist attacks. then one of our congressmen makes a public threat of bombing the vatacan and murdering everyone there including the pope in retaliation for such attacks.

would you find this fair and comforting as well?

i know the answer is 'no' so you can either

-bullshit me and say 'yeah, why not'

-tell the truth and then explain why this situation would be different

Originally posted by PVS
ok, let me rephrase the question so that you can stop avoiding the point.
what if the i.r.a., comprised of irish catholics, conducted another string of terrorist attacks. then one of our congressmen makes a public threat of bombing the vatacan and murdering everyone there including the pope in retaliation for such attacks.

would you find this fair and comforting as well?

i know the answer is 'no' so you can either

-bullshit me and say 'yeah, why not'

-tell the truth and then explain why this situation would be different
1. Bullshit: "Yeah, why not? Fair's fair."

2. Truth: "No. But I never said that I found his statements to be 'fair and comforting', nor did I ever agree with what he said. As in my previous post, I'll say that I was trying to understand his rationale. However, since this line has 'Truth:' right next to it, I will come clean and say that I was defending the fellow making this threat in order to spark an argument."

Study your history.....everyone...the Muslim history.......then make a comment.

Originally posted by debbiejo
Study your history.....everyone...the Muslim history.......then make a comment.

sure, as long as you study christian history. *cough*inquisition*cough*
*ahem* my thought is so sore *cough*crusades*cough* i could use a glass of water

Originally posted by PVS
sure, as long as you study christian history. *cough*inquisition*cough*
*ahem* my thought is so sore *cough*crusades*cough* i could use a glass of water

NOOOO...*cough*.......take a lasinger.....you seem to be hacking.....

The real both sides of history.....*cough*, Muslims take over Jerusalem and the wanting to take over all*cough*.....the whole world......It's their history......take a look at both sides.....must stop from taking cough medicine.....making me high.....

Occupation *cough*...It's the only why.....for Mohamed.......

ha ha ha ha debbiejo keep on coughing both Muslims and Christians depend on your coughing.

Originally posted by debbiejo
NOOOO...*cough*.......take a lasinger.....you seem to be hacking.....

The real both sides of history.....*cough*, Muslims take over Jerusalem and the wanting to take over all*cough*.....the whole world......It's their history......take a look at both sides.....must stop from taking cough medicine.....making me high.....

Occupation *cough*...It's the only why.....for Mohamed.......

where the hell did you read about muslems wanting to take over the world?

Its a bit difficult to bomb Mecca which is in Saudi Arabia, whose country's head is a good friend of G.W. Bush.

Guys bombing any holy site in history had deadly results and i am sure the president or ruler who orders the attack would be killed for sure.

Example in India the Sikh's Holiest site the Golden Temple was attacked by The Indian Government. At that time there were around only 18- 20 million around the world and they caused a lot of destruction. The prime minister of india was shot dead, it led to the deaths of over 70,000 people and terrorist cells grew in UK and Canada and they were able to blow up a plane killing 331 people. Big riots were caused in both countries and many shootings and such happened and martial law was declared many times in Northern India. True outside factors made the problem ten time worse but it shows only a trailer what happen if you bomb mecca.

It would be the greatest mistake any country can make. The US could defend it self from major invasions easily but not from guerrilla warfare which i would say we suck at. Ex (Iraq) You would have tens of millions of terrorist ready to attack and it would be Israel right here in the USA. It would be chaos and nothing will be able to defend us from that. Well I'm not Muslim but if the US ever does that i wouldn't mind going to the protest at the US embassy and it would be firebombed which has happened many times here in Toronto. If that happens i Think Canada would try and distance it self and says were friends??Since when??. If it was something different like some country attacking you we would stand by but i think only Israel and US would be friends after that.

I would say strongly not recommended. True the Muslims countries don't have strong armies but if the people are against you can never win. Thats a history lesson to all of you!.

Well posted ; thanks Manny

Originally posted by PVS
where the hell did you read about muslems wanting to take over the world?

No..They're just expanding for the lord..Oh...I mean God....Oh ummm.. mean for the true god..help the infidels to be holy....convert just as the Christians did the same......Archangel Michael told them so....or was it Gabriel.......Or maybe it was added on later....like their other writings when Mohammad had a following and got a little bolder with what he wrote........Look it up in their Holy Book......

Well thank you. I would say Canada will not help you if you guys do that. Trust me I know people would be shocked and the govt listens to the people on foreign issues here. Ex Missile defence and Iraq war.

Muslims who don't believe much in Islam would be outraged and most minorities would be outraged and i would bet a thousand dollars that the US embassy would be blown up pretty fast as it almost was during the Serbian War. Guys people turn into complete different people if their religion or culture is attacked. Like me.

I doubt it. Bush has some brains but i don't know!!! If an American pilot fired at a school in the US or blew up four Canadians soldiers in Afghanistan it could happen by mistake. The ladder got many people mad at the US here.!!!!!

Hey, if I had my way....we wouldn't be involved with them what so ever...nor anyone else.....But who do you call????????? when in a jam?....It's not Ghost Busters......We as citizens can't control everything the government does....We just up our medicationssssss......


BTW....threats work.......it'll make them take more responsibility for their own people and for what's going on within their own boarders....police it better.....And yes....I'm not a fan of the oil industry either....The US is working on running vehicles on natural gas...I've already seen em....


Ah OH....don't throw rocks tooooo hard.....paperbag1...I I feel a holy war coming on.....this is getting frightning.......I hope it holds... cry

Sigh. And here I was thinking concepts of MAD and nuclear deterrent had ended with the cold war. Oh well, I guess history is doomed to repeat itself.

If this congressman becomes President of the USA, and he does bomb a Holy Site, then start expecting suicide bomb events on a daily basis in in Major cities.

makes sense GCG.

but for some reason people think that if you aggravate them to a certain extent, they will suddenly cower and submit. stupid huh? they just want to hit the hornets nest harder and harder with hopes that they just give up.

It's only a threat....and not even that.......A threat was really never made.....But.... Behave your selves....Leave us and the rest of the world alone....And ...hopefully...we, the US and the rest of the UN, and the world will leave you alone.....And why should other countries suffer for what the US has done in their foreign policies??????.....It doesn't matter.....The Terrorists will bully you too....as they have done...The "My stick is bigger than your stick"...Teddy Roosevelt.....

Am I digging my own grave....here.......I am really short...just dig a shallow one....

Originally posted by PVS
makes sense GCG.

but for some reason people think that if you aggravate them to a certain extent, they will suddenly cower and submit. stupid huh? they just want to hit the hornets nest harder and harder with hopes that they just give up.

It's always been that way......They will never cower and submt...they never have......this will not end anytime soon unless WE ARE THE ONES WHO SUBMIT....and that means all of us. Do you want to submit???

Yes, if such logic worked then the Afghan campaign would have had some effect. If anything it is just as bad, if not worse really. And at the moment Al Qaeda is still the minority of Muslims. If one were to nuke Mecca I can't help but feel pretty sure the worlds billion plus Muslims would be far more interested in what Bin Laden and his ilk have to say. Thats the problem with escalation "you throw a punch, I'll go get a knife, you'll get a gun, I'll get..." and if anything such a retaliation would escalate things only further...

Oh, and then there's the fact it's really, really stupid. So, terrorists, probably Al Qaeda, use some manner of nuclear weapon (probably a "dirty" bomb) and the "ultimate response" is to bomb Mecca, kill thousands, if not millions of INNOCENT people (as well as the fact Mecca is in an allied country really) and most probably make the problem 10 times worse. Were did this guy learn about foreign policy and strategy? In a corn flake box? Because really, it seems like he is trying to sound all tough.

Bombing mecca would have worse affects thebn 9/11 imo.

OK...here's a question...what if the US, the UN and everyone else pulled out of the Middle east....Would that solve the problem?

No but bombing mecca would make the War on terror impossibile to fight not even close to win.

I didn't say bomb them...I said threaten them to make the Middle East take more responsibility in finding those terrorists that live in their own countries, and help bring an end to this.

like thats going to happen. They would just go hide in the next country beside them.

If the US it self can't stop terrorist at their doorstep in Iraq how do you think Muslim countries will?? This is no game of threats or bomb the hell out of everybody. You have to stop radical Islam and thats near impossible.

Technically that's actually one of the things groups like that supposedly want, the West out of the East... granted, it probably wouldn't work, but then you never know, terrorist networks are insidious in that they prey on angry, vengeful people, drawing them in and sending them out. If say everyone left the Middle East, it's possible it might be a blow as the convenient target of the terrorist hate would be gone.

And one must remember, certain Middle Eastern nations have been known to support the likes of Al Qaeda (the Saudi royals, the Taliban) so it might not be that they would come into a conflict with them anyway.

Originally posted by PVS
sure, as long as you study christian history. *cough*inquisition*cough*
*ahem* my thought is so sore *cough*crusades*cough* i could use a glass of water
One time I had a sore thought. I cured it by logging on to KMC .

On the note of Christians persecuting others:

1. There have been numerous situations when the roles have been reversed (Fox's Book of Martyrs is a really interesting read, in case you cared).

2. Those were the Catholics...I'm not affiliated with them or their liberal ideals that control what they believe.

Okay, I am affiliated with them, but the latter part still stands. (I hope I didn't turn the thread into Christians vs. Catholics debate/flame fest).

catholics back then were some bad dudes.

Originally posted by debbiejo
I didn't say bomb them...I said threaten them to make the Middle East take more responsibility in finding those terrorists that live in their own countries, and help bring an end to this.

you think with no logic.
why do people fail to just take a moment and see things from a different
perspective. THEIR perspective. lets say a muslem nation like say....saudi arabia becomes frustrated with our handling of the war(s) and declares that if
we dont pull out of the middle east they will destroy the vatacan, killing everyone. of coarse, secretly they done MEAN it, but to us, and from what we hear, they do mean it. will we just say "OH LORDY LORDY WHAT WILL WE DO!!?!? oh well, lets do what they say." or will we bomb the shit out of them?

use some frikin logic people. alot of you view muslems as cowards and terrorists and thats a big mistake. and before you dellude the thread with your insincere PC bullshit lying double talk, understand what i said. to officially suggest such an action would enrage the entire muslem community and we would be in a world of shit. THINK FFS or STFU

Exactly.

With the sheer amount of Muslim faith countries on Earth, you literally would be talking the REAL World War III.

http://rockymountainnews.com/drmn/state/article/0,1299,DRMN_21_3937059,00.html

Tancredo: No apology

He believes bombing of Muslim holy sites has been discussed


By M.E. Sprengelmeyer / Rocky Mountain News

WASHINGTON - The remarks were hypothetical but the outrage was real.

Facing mounting criticism, Rep. Tom Tancredo on Monday refused to apologize for suggesting the United States could target Muslim holy sites if radical Islamic terrorists set off multiple nuclear attacks in American cities.

"It's a tough issue to deal with," Tancredo told reporters at a Capitol Hill news conference. "Tough things are said. And we should not shy away from saying things that need to be said."

Tancredo is known for his fiery rhetoric on immigration and other issues, but his words are coming under more scrutiny because he has started traveling to test the waters for a possible presidential candidacy in 2008.

A spokeswoman for House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi called Tancredo's remarks irresponsible.

"They do nothing to advance our national security and protect Americans from terrorists," Pelosi spokeswoman Jennifer Crider said.

The Council on American-Islamic Relations, which calls itself the largest Islamic civil rights group in the United States, demanded an apology Monday, after the Rocky Mountain News published an account of his Friday interview with WFLA radio in Florida.

In the interview, talk show host Pat Campbell asked Tancredo what the United States should do if terrorists were to strike several U.S. cities with nuclear weapons.

"Well, what if you said something like - if this happens in the United States, and we determine that it is the result of extremist, fundamentalist Muslims, you know, you could take out their holy sites," Tancredo answered.

"You're talking about bombing Mecca," Campbell said.

"Yeah," Tancredo responded.

He went on to say that he was "just throwing out some ideas" but that an "ultimate threat" might have to be met with an "ultimate response."

Tancredo later said he was not advocating such a response, but merely discussing what could happen in a hypothetical situation.

"I was talking about what we could maybe do as a preventative," Tancredo said. "I simply throw that out there as a thing to think about, although it is horrendous to think about. So is having one or more cities destroyed in the United States."

CAIR spokesman Ibrahim Hooper called Tancredo's remarks irresponsible, inflammatory and "unworthy of an elected official."

"These kinds of . . . comments just serve to fuel negative perceptions of the United States in the Muslim world that create a downward spiral of hostility," Hooper said.

"He needs to go far beyond a clarification and apologize, not only to the people of Colorado, but to the American-Muslim community."

Tancredo rejected the idea of apologizing at his news conference, where the controversy overshadowed the topic he wanted to address, his introduction of comprehensive immigration reform legislation. His bill would create a limited guest worker plan for immigrants but only after beefing up border security.

Last week in Iowa, home of the nation's first presidential caucuses, he pressed his immigration reform agenda to members of the Christian Coalition. At each stop, he also spoke briefly about what he sees as a clash of civilizations and war against "radical Islam."

Hooper said it was a "quantum leap" for Tancredo to go a step further and suggest destroying Muslim holy sites that are at the center of a faith for one-fifth of the world's people.

"Unfortunately, there's a veritable cottage industry of anti-Muslim rhetoric now in our society, and it seems to be growing," Hooper said. "I don't know where it's taking us, because if people really do believe we're in conflict with the faith of Islam, what does that mean? What are the implications of that? Unending civilizational and religious war? It's too much to contemplate."

In an interview, Tancredo said he did not intend to offend moderate Muslims, whom he calls the "best hope" of bringing terrorists to justice.

"When we bombed Hiroshima, when we bombed Dresden, we punished a lot of people who were not necessarily (guilty)," Tancredo said. "Not every German was a member of the Nazi Party. You do things in war that are ugly."

He stressed that he was not advocating an attack on Islamic holy sites, but that counterattacks had to be considered - and perhaps telegraphed ahead of time. That way, he said, both sides would know the stakes under a worst-case scenario, much as they did under the Cold War theory of "mutually assured destruction."

Tancredo believes government officials already have considered such a scenario.

"Do they think, honestly, if I never said that, it wouldn't be contemplated?" Tancredo said. "Of course, things are contemplated, and I certainly wouldn't be the only one. Not saying it does not mean it doesn't exist in the minds of people."

Late Monday, CAIR officials said they were trying to arrange a meeting between Tancredo and Colorado Muslim leaders. Tancredo spokesman Will Adams said he had not received the invitation but that the congressman would be willing to meet with moderate Muslims.

well...i do agree with one thing he said. im sure its been discussed as well.

True if you bomb mecca terrorists would attack with a fury aginst the troops in Iraq i think we would be forced to pull out or face a veitnam war there. Imagine what would happen if most of the population truns aginst you. You can never win. Its a fact in History. You make the war on terror from near impossibile to win to impossibile to fight at all!!!!

if this tan credo guy did something like this, he would never make it in 2008. the terrorists are playing games with tan credo. they want him to do this so that the prime ministers of the middle east would be outraged by what America did and declare a real war. the middle east doesn't care what they are doing in Iraq, as long as you don't hurt any holy shrines, if so then we are messing with the wrong people. If America bomb the middle east then the world will view America as the "murderous nation." then they will side with the middle east because they realize America is a threat and they might be attacked also. America's allies will not help America because they will feel like they are being betrayed. bombing the middle east would be like striking a hornet's nest. if any nations can start any wars it would be the middle east. America will be looking at fighting the world if this happens.

No its not countries attacking the US that would not be the problem. It would be huge problems in Iraq for the troops. You know that terrorism would become very very popular in the middle east and you will find many people trying to attack the US. If you have the people against you can not win. It won't be countries attacking that would be a problem. It would be those terrorist groups and such that would cause the real damage.

Its a fact of history. If the masses are set against something it will be done. It would make the war very very hard and you would increase the number of terrorists by 1000%. You would loose many many friends and supporters. It won't be world war. It be Israel type situation in the US.

true, you can't fight a one country war and win.

yes, china is in the development of becoming a superpower despite they are going through rough times. Russia has potential to become one because they have nuclear weapons like America does but not as much. America is not considered the only superpower, more nations will become more like them or more powerful.

back in 1968 it was said that the Chinese had over 200 million in militia but only 1 million right now that do serve in the armed forces. The Chinese believe with an army that big, they could handle any nuclear weapons and still prevail on the battle field. more could serve in the Chinese army but they don't have the technology or money to support that, but one of these days they will.

um....wrong thread?

True there army is going to become quite powerful in the next few years. The govt has a lot of money to do that.

America is losing the economy battle to them. one example was my senior year, my medical procedures teacher went to china and he brought a CSI DVD and it cost $10 there. here it cost $100. it is much cheaper to live there than here.

Originally posted by PVS
you think with no logic.
why do people fail to just take a moment and see things from a different
perspective. THEIR perspective. lets say a muslem nation like say....saudi arabia becomes frustrated with our handling of the war(s) and declares that if
we dont pull out of the middle east they will destroy the vatacan, killing everyone. of coarse, secretly they done MEAN it, but to us, and from what we hear, they do mean it. will we just say "OH LORDY LORDY WHAT WILL WE DO!!?!? oh well, lets do what they say." or will we bomb the shit out of them?



Well of course everything you threaten has to be followed up with an act...Just can't make voids threats.....But, this is a new and different idea...nothing else seems to work...and if the worst did happen, well China maybe could be the next super power, but that's another thread...they are really developing, China that is.. and are the No. 2 user of OIL in the world....GM's largest plant is also there......besides, Muslims, that is, have destroyed many Christian holy site in Jerusalem...Not nuking them though....They don't care about others Holy sites.....But they do care about their own...Maybe they just might think...."Hmmmmm...how could Mohammad let this happen to us???"...they just might rethink their beliefs...some might leave them...thinking Mohammad is punishing them....though others might become more extremist.

ha ha ha very good debbiejo.

Also the reason Egypt leaves Israel alone if because Israel threatened to blow up Egypt's Aswar{sp} dam..I think that's the name of it,.which would throw Egypt into economic chaos.........so...That threat worked...

Threats can work if they know the person in power is willing to do just that.....

Also, in our neck of the woods, we don't smack a wasps nest.....we burn them......

nothing would really hurt Egypt anyway. they aren't as rich as they were thousands of years ago.

Originally posted by debbiejo
Well of course everything you threaten has to be followed up with an act...Just can't make voids threats.....But, this is a new and different idea...nothing else seems to work...and if the worst did happen, well China maybe could be the next super power, but that's another thread...they are really developing, China that is.. and are the No. 2 user of OIL in the world....GM's largest plant is also there......besides, Muslims, that is, have destroyed many Christian holy site in Jerusalem...Not nuking them though....They don't care about others Holy sites.....But they do care about their own...Maybe they just might think...."Hmmmmm...how could Mohammad let this happen to us???"...they just might rethink their beliefs...some might leave them...thinking Mohammad is punishing them....though others might become more extremist.

WHAT!?!?!?!? no no no, this is how it happens:

-america nukes the mecca.
-every muslem on the planet declares war on america
-we die, they die, everyone dies


and STILL i have to sit here and read a pseudo-intellectual arguement laced with "WAAAAAA!!!! THEY DID IT FIRST!!!" is that a mentality of a good christian? what did christ teach us to do if someone strikes us in the cheek? apparently you seem to think he said "HIT HIM BACK HARDER". well think again

Bombing Mecca.........They dont know whats going to happen if they do
Muslims will probably die

Thats the most historic islam landmark

Did you know they pray in the direction of mecca?

im sorry PVS but that not a smilie face it supoosed to me sad

sorry
HERE A DRINK

TO THE GRILL!!!

Tom Tancredo is a ****ing douchebag, and i would know. I met him on his last reelection campaign

i can tell you people right now that no one would be stupid enough to actually do that. If any country or organization ever did that, that would cause arguably the biggest war in humanity.. IF SOMEONE WERE to bomb a place like mecca, a place so sacred to muslims, there will be chaos everyday for the rest of the times

do you know the main reason why osama bin laden is so against the united states.. he wants them out of the holy country of saudi arabia. He believes that the united states has no business being there. and look what kind of civil unrest that has caused

Originally posted by PVS
WHAT!?!?!?!? no no no, this is how it happens:

-america nukes the mecca.
-every muslem on the planet declares war on america
-we die, they die, everyone dies



Yes, that's the ugly reality that surrounds man kinds stupidest concept. MAD. Mutually. Assured. Destruction. If I can't have it, no one will. Hard to believe anyone could come up with something like it, one would have thought all the fear throughout the Cold War would have been enough for a life time, but it seems there are still powerful people crazy enough to believe nuclear deterrence, escalation and retaliation are viable pieces of policy.

It would only end in tears people. Tears.

please refer to the PC thread. if you were a muslem, which would you dread more? being called a 'raghead camel jockeys who aren't worth more than the sand upon which you stand', or dealing with the prospect of everything you hold sacred being wiped out as some genocidal meaningless symbolic message?

please, if you want to stir further arguement, come up with a decent point instead of quoting yourself. thats what we call "spam"

Originally posted by PVS
--Congressman Threatens Islamic Holy Sites--
The Associated Press
Monday, July 18, 2005; 8:25 AM


DENVER -- A Colorado congressman told a radio show host that the U.S. could "take out" Islamic holy sites if Muslim fundamentalist terrorists attacked the country with nuclear weapons.



I was under the impression that they would attack the US first....,So, that would be our threat on them not doing that....our retaliation back...Just Israels threat to Egypt......

If the US gets nuked.....are we to do nothing????

It would be the destruction of both the US and parts of the middle east , Bombs like our tactile nukes would not destroy everything around...just target places....not everyone would die.....though their nukes would probably kill many of us here.....

Oh, and I'm glad we have a Muslim participating in this talk....But even if the US and the world pulled out of the Middle East....I feel there would still be problems.......

If I had my way, we would all pull out of that area,.....but would that really guarantee any peace for the rest of the world?

Originally posted by debbiejo
If the US gets nuked.....are we to do nothing????

Debbie, just go hide out at Ford Field until the smoke has settled.

ok debbiejo, im tired of asking this question so that people like you can just avoid it, so ill ask one more time. if i keep typing it over and over i fear i'll end up with arthritis, so i will go against my own pet peave and quote my own question. please don't avoid it this time, or it will be painfully obvious that you are purposely dodging points to maintain your precious bliss in ignorance.
please....surprise me:

Originally posted by PVS
what if the i.r.a., comprised of irish catholics, conducted another string of terrorist attacks. then one of our congressmen makes a public threat of bombing the vatacan and murdering everyone there including the pope in retaliation for such attacks.

and if you feel that this would somehow be different please explain why

Originally posted by botankus
Debbie, just go hide out at Ford Field until the smoke has settled.

Maybe Canada......

What's a nice girl like me doin in a thread like this anyway????

Politics is a disturbing place.....I used to live there once..It's called hell....I think I'll go feed my pet Turkey....

The Vatican is in no way supporting the activities of the IRA as opposed the Muslim clerics who supporting and praising the terrorist attacks..

Originally posted by debbiejo
The Vatican is in no way supporting the activities of the IRA as opposed the Muslim clerics who supporting and praising the terrorist attacks..

no no no debbiejo, your using double standards again, and also generalising.

first of all, how do you know that there are no irish catholic clerics who would support the i.r.a.? you dont

and you would be so ignorant as to declare that all or even most muslem clerics support terrorism? thats just sad

try again

you are basically saying that if catholics conduct terrorist attacks, its because of an isolated group of fanatics (true) but then erase that sound mentallity so that you can feel secure in your biggotry. when its a muslem doing the bombing, you say its because the clerics support it. thats just so wrong on so many levels. do you actually believe this horse shit?

Originally posted by PVS
try again




I can't, I've already played my hand, showed my cards and no matter how many times I get a new hand, the anti goes up and no one wins....

I'm takin my chips cash them in and go home.....Next time maybe I'll play "Texas Holding".....

BTW....I'm no biggot.....I live amongst many minorities and am part one myself.....

Originally posted by debbiejo
I can't, I've already played my hand, showed my cards and no matter how many times I get a new hand, the anti goes up and no one wins....

I'm takin my chips cash them in and go home.....Next time maybe I'll play "Texas Holding".....

oh is it metaphore time? fine

what actually happened is you hid the cards that were in your hand and replaced them with shotty cardboard cutouts with 10,J,Q,K,A with like suites, all written out in crayon and declared a royal flush.

thus you will be ejected from this casino without your winnings

You guys are cracking me up over here.

Originally posted by debbiejo
The Vatican is in no way supporting the activities of the IRA as opposed the Muslim clerics who supporting and praising the terrorist attacks..

so you think that muslims generally praise the terrorist attacks??? do you even know what you are saying? goodness cant you a bit more open minded

Originally posted by alic88
so you think that muslims generally praise the terrorist attacks??? do you even know what you are saying? goodness cant you a bit more open minded

Oh.....alic88...I am open minded...almost to the extreem....but you'd be fisty to if you hadn't had your candy.........

Originally posted by debbiejo
Oh.....alic88...I am open minded...almost to the extreem....but you'd be fisty to if you hadn't had your candy.........

by any chance....are you related to JM?

Well, Jackie's never posted a picture while Debs has. If we had one from her we could start comparing and contrasting features.

Originally posted by PVS
by any chance....are you related to JM?

Jim Morrison? HAHAHAHAH.....

What I say is sad but true...

If the terrorists detonate a nuclear warhead in the US and it kills thousands of people, the lunatics will take over the country and millions of people all around the world will die.

I know how the military thinks and they already have plans for things like this, but what no one can foresee is how the common people will react. I tell you the lunatics are everywhere and they will not stand back and let someone kill thousands of our people without doing the same to others.

I am not condoning this, just telling it like I see it.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
What I say is sad but true...

If the terrorists detonate a nuclear warhead in the US and it kills thousands of people, the lunatics will take over the country and millions of people all around the world will die.

I know how the military thinks and they already have plans for things like this, but what no one can foresee is how the common people will react. I tell you the lunatics are everywhere and they will not stand back and let someone kill thousands of our people without doing the same to others.

I am not condoning this, just telling it like I see it.

i understand perfectly.
look how we reacted from 9-11. just over 3000 people die and everyone turns into blood thirsty racist revenge junkies screaming "BOMB BROWN PEOPLE NOW!!!! I DONT CARE IF THEY DID IT!!!! SOMEONE HAS TO PAY!!!!" imagine what the deaths of 3 million+ deaths would be? it would be the end of america and even the world as we know and love it plus the death toll from the aftermath would be exponential. so i guess when i really ponder it, there's no point in worrying that our military would commit a series of horrible irrational actions, as vengeance for horrible irrational actions...because they just will.
if u.s. cities are nuked, everyone is f***ed...EVERYONE

Originally posted by PVS
i understand perfectly.
look how we reacted from 9-11. just over 3000 people die and everyone turns into blood thirsty racist revenge junkies screaming "BOMB BROWN PEOPLE NOW!!!! I DONT CARE IF THEY DID IT!!!! SOMEONE HAS TO PAY!!!!" imagine what the deaths of 3 million+ deaths would be? it would be the end of america and even the world as we know and love it plus the death toll from the aftermath would be exponential. so i guess when i really ponder it, there's no point in worrying that our military would commit a series of horrible irrational actions, as vengeance for horrible irrational actions...because they just will.
if u.s. cities are nuked, everyone is f***ed...EVERYONE

blowup

And I'm to young to die.........

crybaby

And speaking of brown skin....I have Olive...I now get carded everytime I go over to Canada...which is quite often...cause I can pass for Muslim or Arab, though I'm not.....Now, I have to get a passport..to go over there.

Relax, Debbie....Ford Field is safe, remember?

Surviving such a holocaust maybe worse than being killed at the start.

i would still prefer to survive. the alternative sucks more imho.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Surviving such a holocaust maybe worse than being killed at the start.

Yep....I would rather die....really.....But to me, that would be the better place.....


Ford Field???? hahahaha.....Will you be there?????

oh will you two quit the macho tough talk? please?
if you looked over to your nearest city and saw an atomic blast
you would jump in your car and drive away with your foot to the floor, praying that the fallout doesnt reach you. and you know it.

Originally posted by PVS
oh will you two quit the macho tough talk? please?
if you looked over to your nearest city and saw an atomic blast
you would jump in your car and drive away with your foot to the floor, praying that the fallout doesnt reach you. and you know it.

Yeah...I've always wanted to be a mutant......

Mutant communities......Hey, what color is your wig....

Well, at least I still have 3 teeth......

I don't know, but I could swear that yesterday I had 2 arms.....

They'll use us mutants as slave workers in the mines......I don't like dark places.....

WE'LL ALL JUST RUN TO CANADA...HAHAHAHA..

Canada would be a good place to run to if another Vietnam war like broke out. back then Canada was the place and it still is for prisoners.

cheech Marin of the cheech and chong movies did the same thing when Vietnam broke out in 1965, while he was in Canada he met tommy chong and so cheech and chong were born, but their first names were spic and spam, but the Latino community didn't like it so they changed it.

........ok thanks

Can you imagine what would happen? They nuke us, we destroy their holy sites.

Have you every whacked a hornet's nest with a stick?

Originally posted by alic88
do you know the main reason why osama bin laden is so against the united states.. he wants them out of the holy country of saudi arabia. He believes that the united states has no business being there. and look what kind of civil unrest that has caused

Correct me if I'm wrong but didn't Osama want to kill the Saudi royal family? I think he was kicked out of the UAE for trying to kill his father or for making some threat against the UAE. His official cover story about why he was mad at the U.S. was that America deserted Afghanistan after the war with the Russians. Seems to me he only told one side of the story. He's not pissed because we left Afghanistan, it's because we stood in the way for his plans to replace Saudi Arabaian govt. with a hardline Islamic state. That's probabaly the real reason we cut off the funding and training to the Mujahaideen, who are now known as the Taliban.

Originally posted by Dagons Blade
Correct me if I'm wrong but didn't Osama want to kill the Saudi royal family? I think he was kicked out of the UAE for trying to kill his father or for making some threat against the UAE. His official cover story about why he was mad at the U.S. was that America deserted Afghanistan after the war with the Russians. Seems to me he only told one side of the story. He's not pissed because we left Afghanistan, it's because we stood in the way for his plans to replace Saudi Arabaian govt. with a hardline Islamic state. That's probabaly the real reason we cut off the funding and training to the Mujahaideen, who are now known as the Taliban.

If what you say is true, then there is nothing we could have done differently to prevent 9-11. If we have not stood in his way, he would have grown stronger and would have been able to hit us harder.

yeah, osama bin laden is like six foot six. I found a biography about him and he seemed very tall but he is very skinny.

no wonder he seemed so tall on that south park episode.

Originally posted by cking
yeah, osama bin laden is like six foot six. I found a biography about him and he seemed very tall but he is very skinny.

um.....drugs are bad....mmmmmmmkay?

I am sure he would say he needs drugs or something, what with kidney failure and all that

Yep... he needs regular dialysis apparently...

Make you wonder how he survives, if he really is in a cave, with such intensive, complex procedures required. He should just get a transplant or something. I bet that there's plenty of people in his *organisation* that would be happy to.

Does indeed make you wonder...

And they do say "You never leave the Agency"...

actually osama is one of the few richest people in Afghanistan. if not he would never make it the way he does, he would be caught just like any run away prisoner. He has everything he needs to survive in his hiding place.

Originally posted by PVS
please refer to the PC thread. if you were a muslem, which would you dread more? being called a 'raghead camel jockeys who aren't worth more than the sand upon which you stand', or dealing with the prospect of everything you hold sacred being wiped out as some genocidal meaningless symbolic message?

please, if you want to stir further arguement, come up with a decent point instead of quoting yourself. thats what we call "spam"
PVS, as one who frequently rebuffs others for avoiding questions, I would have thought that you would lead the way in making sure that you responded to every part of a post. Especially if it gets reposted several times.

As for the racism/bigotry, we're not talking about what people 'dread more'. Most people don't dread being called racist things. They get offended, but they don't live in fear of them. We're talking about racial slurs, discrimination, and prejudice based on background.

thank you for splitting hairs to prove meaningless points in order to avoid the point of what you quoted. now i guess i should follow your example and address this:
"PVS, as one who frequently rebuffs others for avoiding questions"
and then we can spiral further down this tangent

btw, i was being rhetorical. the POINT in what i said was racial slurs are meaningless. i get the feeling you know that though and are just trying to turn this into some twisted backwards debate over nothing, maybe just to get off, i dont know so ill just leave it at that

Originally posted by PVS
thank you for splitting hairs to prove meaningless points in order to avoid the point of what you quoted. now i guess i should follow your example and address this:
"PVS, as one who frequently rebuffs others for avoiding questions"
and then we can spiral further down this tangent

btw, i was being rhetorical. the POINT in what i said was racial slurs are meaningless. i get the feeling you know that though and are just trying to turn this into some twisted backwards debate over nothing, maybe just to get off, i dont know so ill just leave it at that
PVS, you've lost me.

I'm not avoiding what I quoted...and, yes, feel free to address the "PVS, as one..." bit.

The point that I was making was that the Congresmman who said that was not being a racist bigot.

Sounds familiar, only wordier.

And I did my rebuttal too....then I cashed in my chips and went home....I did GET my earnings for those cardboard cut up cards made with crayon too...

I'm just into the same stuff PVS is into....