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I know what the omega-level means, but what is that alpha-status about and are there beta-,gamma-,delta-levels etc.???

I've never heard of these obscene levels of these mutants that you speak of.

I heard of them, but not sure about alpha. All i know is Omega Class mutants are Elixir and iceman...

I wonder what level Storm is...hmmm

Mutant Alpha?
He was a mutant made by Magneto that evolved each time he used his power until finally becoming godlike.

That's prolly not what you're talking about but no one seems to remember mutant Alpha around here....

He was one powerful s.o.b.
Anyone know what he's up to now-adays?

Originally posted by long pig
Mutant Alpha?
He was a mutant made by Magneto that evolved each time he used his power until finally becoming godlike.

That's prolly not what you're talking about but no one seems to remember mutant Alpha around here....

He was one powerful s.o.b.
Anyone know what he's up to now-adays?

probably the new master at the playboy mansion

The only time ive heard alpha mutants being mentioned was in age of apocalypse. It was used to describe the most powerful mutants. The ones who were top of the hierarchy, the ruling class in AOA because of how powerful they were. So powerful energy wielders and general mutant powerhouses would have made the cut. So no jubilee, Leech, Artie etc.

Omega speaks for potential. Xmen forever spoke of how humanity is the result of experiments the celestials carried out on early lifeforms, on behalf of the abstracts. The reason for these experiments was to ensure that a race of beings would eventually evolve that would surpass and in turn replace all of the abstracts. This would bring about the end of universe. By creating humanity the abstracts are ensuring that the cycle of life continues to revolve. This final state of evolution is phoenix. Its what all humanity will eventually turn into. Thats why Jean as phoenix is called the "ultimate mutation". Those with omega(the last) potential are the ones closest to reaching this final stage of evolution. Whether their potential results in they themselves turning into phoenixes (like Jean and Quentin Quire have) or their descendants doing so, within omega mutants lies the potential to bring about the end. Hence its name.

Originally posted by Arcane
probably the new master at the playboy mansion isn't this kinda Off topic.

Originally posted by BENITO
isn't this kinda Off topic.

just answering a question

wait, so whos more powerful? omega or alpha?

ok it's not how "powerful" they are.

Alpha as we all know stands for beginning

Omega stands for END.

(if you don't believe me look it up.. i am the alpha and the omega(the bible.) .. the beginning and the end.)

what they are referring to is the mutant adaptions of their powers.

Alpha mutants would be, apocalypse, xavier, magneto, these types of mutants.. usualy referring to "old" and the most trained and most powerful..

omega usually refers to an end, the final adaptations of the powers.
like for example, say scott were to finally be able to control his optic blasts, and they were eventually mutated in his son to be the most powerful energy blasts and he had complete control over it.

like he could warp the energy to surround his body and protect him and shoot the energy any direction and control it.

he would be an omega level mutant, the end strain of mutation of that type of energy/power.

when they speak of omega level potential, they are referring to the fact that they could eventually learn and harness their power to it's ultimate potential.

hope that helps out a bit.

Omega is more to do with potential. But because omegas are genetically closer to reaching phoenix potential then the most powerful of their class far exceeds the most powerful alphas if that potential is realised as it has been with jean and quentin quire(kid omega). Alphas are just powerful mutants top of the range but their genetic structure doesnt allow for phoenix potential. For example magnetos an alpha but at the moment he's more powerful than all those officially listed as omega so far(with the exception of jean and quentin). However they could become way more powerful than any alpha.

A lot of these omegas due to being powerful anyway would be classed as alphas but for their geentic potential which seperates them.

oh yeah, and there are beta and gamma, etc level mutants.
i think in the xavier files, he had every mutant listed as a
level. he started off with saying what level they currently were
and what they could potentially reach.

Originally posted by eristole
ok it's not how "powerful" they are.

Alpha as we all know stands for beginning

Omega stands for END.

(if you don't believe me look it up.. i am the alpha and the omega(the bible.) .. the beginning and the end.)

what they are referring to is the mutant adaptions of their powers.

Alpha mutants would be, apocalypse, xavier, magneto, these types of mutants.. usualy referring to "old" and the most trained and most powerful..

omega usually refers to an end, the final adaptations of the powers.
like for example, say scott were to finally be able to control his optic blasts, and they were eventually mutated in his son to be the most powerful energy blasts and he had complete control over it.

like he could warp the energy to surround his body and protect him and shoot the energy any direction and control it.

he would be an omega level mutant, the end strain of mutation of that type of energy/power.

when they speak of omega level potential, they are referring to the fact that they could eventually learn and harness their power to it's ultimate potential.

hope that helps out a bit.

Xmen forever dealt with what omega actually stands for. It is not to do with an adaptation of their powers. If that was the case then those with secondary mutations would be omegas. That would include the likes of beast, angel and emma frost. Omega is to do with them having being the closest genetically to reaching the stages of the final mutation which is phoenix.

were kind of saying the same thing, i was referring to energy based mutations, there is a level for physical based mutants like beast and angel and emma that describes them at their final mutation/powers.

But its certainly not omega. Omegas potentials something you're born with. Its not something you can aspire to reach. Its only in recent years that this whole omega thing has really been introduced however Xmen forever featured Jeans psychic essence which travelled back in time to inhabit her body in her marvel girl days. She snuck into Xaviers office and read his files. Xavier had known about omega potential even then and he listed her and iceman as having it. It talked of while beast, angel and cyclops will improve in the use of their abilities, they've basically reached the apex of what their abilities entail. Bear in mind that Beast has had a secondary mutation, his powers have adapted. Omega as i said is not a level to aspire to be its something you're born with.

Alphas are powerful mutants be it inherently or through training. That can be something to be worked up to.

So basically...
Omega's have within them from birth a genetic potential that far surpasses an Alpha. E.g. Elixir has little training in the use of his powers, Iceman's potential lay dormant for years. There also seems to be some requisite for their powers entailing some manner of manipulation of one or more of thoughts/matter/energy/time/space/reality although I don't know how stringent that is.
However a well trained Alpha may be incredibly powerful but even at the peak of their genetic potential they will still never be near the power levels that are potentially attainable in an Omega. E.g. Xavier is arguably the most skilled mutant in the use of his genetic gifts and he is the most technically skilled telepath, but Quentin Quire as an omega level telepath with little or no training in his genetic gifts surpasses Xavier's peak power levels.
Is that about right?

yup pretty much that's the basics of it.

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
So basically...
Omega's have within them from birth a genetic potential that far surpasses an Alpha. E.g. Elixir has little training in the use of his powers, Iceman's potential lay dormant for years. There also seems to be some requisite for their powers entailing some manner of manipulation of one or more of thoughts/matter/energy/time/space/reality although I don't know how stringent that is.
However a well trained Alpha may be incredibly powerful but even at the peak of their genetic potential they will still never be near the power levels that are potentially attainable in an Omega. E.g. Xavier is arguably the most skilled mutant in the use of his genetic gifts and he is the most technically skilled telepath, but Quentin Quire as an omega level telepath with little or no training in his genetic gifts surpasses Xavier's peak power levels.
Is that about right?

I perfectly agree on this. And Xavier implied indeed, that Omega goes along with more complex powers, as stated above. So the likes of Storm, Sunfire, Polaris, Hellion etc. might be omegas, while pure powerhouses and ferals like Colossus and Wolverine will certainly be not.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
The only time ive heard alpha mutants being mentioned was in age of apocalypse. It was used to describe the most powerful mutants. The ones who were top of the hierarchy, the ruling class in AOA because of how powerful they were. So powerful energy wielders and general mutant powerhouses would have made the cut. So no jubilee, Leech, Artie etc.

Thats where i have that alpha-thing from and what i thought about it. I just hoped there would be something more detailed by now.

Originally posted by wannabe
I perfectly agree on this. And Xavier implied indeed, that Omega goes along with more complex powers, as stated above. So the likes of Storm, Sunfire, Polaris, Hellion etc. might be omegas, while pure powerhouses and ferals like Colossus and Wolverine will certainly be not.

All the mutants you've mentioned above are to my knowledge alpha mutants. Powerful mutants for sure, among the most powerful on the planet however none of them have omega potential from whats been revealed so far.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
All the mutants you've mentioned above are to my knowledge alpha mutants. Powerful mutants for sure, among the most powerful on the planet however none of them have omega potential from whats been revealed so far.

I know, i was just using them as examples for the powertypes that an omega might show and those he would rather not.

so to be an omega you have to have phoenix potential?

so what about x man whats he

Originally posted by dominic/wolf
so what about x man whats he

You dont know unless the comics tell you. Its not something we as readers can just figure out. As far as we know he was an alpha unless anyone can remmeber an issue that says he had omega potential?

The only definite omegas i know of are Rachel, Jean, Iceman, Quentin Quire and Elixir

I always thought storm was hinted as having omega potential, but now the whole definition of omega has confused me

Originally posted by stormfront13
so to be an omega you have to have phoenix potential?

Being omega as far as i know means you're closest to reaching that stage of final mutation which is phoenix. That doesnt mean that everyone who is omega are suddenly going to become phoenixes. Having the potential doesnt mean its definitely going to be realised.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
The only time ive heard alpha mutants being mentioned was in age of apocalypse. It was used to describe the most powerful mutants. The ones who were top of the hierarchy, the ruling class in AOA because of how powerful they were. So powerful energy wielders and general mutant powerhouses would have made the cut. So no jubilee, Leech, Artie etc.

Omega speaks for potential. Xmen forever spoke of how humanity is the result of experiments the celestials carried out on early lifeforms, on behalf of the abstracts. The reason for these experiments was to ensure that a race of beings would eventually evolve that would surpass and in turn replace all of the abstracts. This would bring about the end of universe. By creating humanity the abstracts are ensuring that the cycle of life continues to revolve. This final state of evolution is phoenix. Its what all humanity will eventually turn into. Thats why Jean as phoenix is called the "ultimate mutation". Those with omega(the last) potential are the ones closest to reaching this final stage of evolution. Whether their potential results in they themselves turning into phoenixes (like Jean and Quentin Quire have) or their descendants doing so, within omega mutants lies the potential to bring about the end. Hence its name.

Do you have a link to a website that says this?

'Cause I'm really confused....

Nope but i can tell you that it was all revealed in the Xmen Forever mini series and then made clearer by reading New Xmen.

Originally posted by stormfront13
I always thought storm was hinted as having omega potential, but now the whole definition of omega has confused me

Being omega does not mean, that you will become a Phoenixavatar like Jean. The Phoenix is just an image used by jean to reflect her connection to the primal force of existence.
When you are an omega, you have the potential to form your own connection to that force. How that connection will look like and how strong it will be is yet uncertain.
I highly doubt it, that iceman on his peak will look like a male version of Jean or Rachel. Quentin(Kid Omega) only looked that way in the White Hot Room (New X-men 154), because it was Jean looking (with her interpretation of this force in mind) at him.

I'd say it's pretty save (and more simple) to claim, that an omega has the potential to express powers of cosmic level...ok!?

so you have a primal force of existance, well storm is linked and connected to the earth, does that count for anything?

storm if anything is an alpha mutant.

since her power depends on the being in a place with weather, where as an omega mutant can pretty much do their thing anywhere(like phoeniz in space, etc..)

the level is "power output" if you have x-men legends and you go through the dangeroom sequence where she blows it up. they talk about not seeing this kind of power output since the phoenix.. that would make her an omega level mutant kinda, because her power output is so intense.

it doesnt really have anything to do with the connection they have with their powers.

Originally posted by stormfront13
so you have a primal force of existance, well storm is linked and connected to the earth, does that count for anything?

No,no,no...you both, eristole and Stormfront, did not understand what i wanted to explain!

The Phoenix-Force is the primal force of creation, existance and destruction.
Jean as the Phoenix is the highest form of mutation possible(look at the postings of Galactic Storm).
The omega-level states, that a mutant has the potential to reach a point, where he is at least near that highest form of mutation, thus being connected with the phoenix-force.
The phoenix-force is normally a force without any real form. The phoenix is just a signature Jean created subconsciously, that reflects her connection and view (dying and being reborn) towards this force...sooo another omegamutant reaching the fullest expression of his potential does not have to be like Jean or Rachel. He/she would rather take on a signature, that reflects best his connection to the "phoenix"-force. Iceman would certainly not look like a phoenix and JUST IN CASE Storm is an omega, she would for example transform into an elemantal being.

AGAIN...

-Omega-Level = Potential for developement of the highest form of mutation!

-Jean as Phoenix = highest form of mutation; being connected to the primal force of existence(Phoenix-Force)!

-Phoenix = just an image subconsciously created by Jean(the death-rebirth theme reflects her connection/relation to the force)!

-Phoenix-Force = shapeless and just named this way because of Jean!

-Omega-mutant = could take any imaginable form, most likely one that reflects his/her power or his/her connection with the force( if Elixir would be catholic* he would probably turn into...well...a Seraphim for example, because of his religous view towards his connection/relation with the power of creation)!

*please don't say:"Elixir is not catholic!"...IT'S JUST AN EXAMPLE TO EXPLAIN THOMETHING!!!

*****since her power depends on the being in a place with weather, where as an omega mutant can pretty much do their thing anywhere(like phoeniz in space, etc..)*****

^^storm has used her powers in space just to let you know, she easily destroyed a sentinal in space.


*****JUST IN CASE Storm is an omega, she would for example transform into an elemantal being.*****


^^in AOA she was an elemental being and in alternate universes aren't power levels supposed to be the same so......shouldn't she be the same in 616?

Originally posted by stormfront13
in AOA she was an elemental being and in alternate universes aren't power levels supposed to be the same so......shouldn't she be the same in 616?

On page 1 of this thread it was me making this assumption and proposing it to you as not a real proof, but at least circumstantial evidence for Storms status as a probable omega...if you remember?!

It's a good thing they kept it as a boring mythological animal.

*****On page 1 of this thread it was me making this assumption and proposing it to you as not a real proof, but at least circumstantial evidence for Storms status as a probable omega...if you remember?!*****


^^yeah, i knew someone said it to me but I couldn't remember who, and I didn't know it was said here lol-srry

I think it would be awesome to see all of the Omega mutants reach Phoenix evolution, maybe have a different raptor, whoa, i smell possibilities!

yeah, i like the idea of them having a different raport, if storm was an omega I would love to see her take the mantle of the "goddess" or "bright lady" she is always talking about and/or praying to.

Originally posted by Phoenix_Avatar9
I think it would be awesome to see all of the Omega mutants reach Phoenix evolution, maybe have a different raptor, whoa, i smell possibilities!

Would certainly be interesting, however Elixir and Iceman would look like. Storm (i know there is no bulletproof evidence for her being omega) could look like Eternity, just with lightnings,clouds,rain,hail,sunwinds and -erruptions filling her contours...or she would simply look like in AOA.
On the other hand, this scenario would be a pretty heavy powershowoff and i usually tend to prefer mutants with more moderate ablilties like Nightcrawler and Archangel (the Weatherwitch is an exeption to this preference...strong character!).

Originally posted by stormfront13
yeah, i like the idea of them having a different raport, if storm was an omega I would love to see her take the mantle of the "goddess" or "bright lady" she is always talking about and/or praying to.

Interesting thought...Kairoan Orphan becoming the very abstract she worships at the moment!
This scenario holds real potential for a religious and philosophical discussion.

gambit2

Again from UXM.Net:


gambit2

Good and simple approach for an explanation!

thanks Jury dear notworthy

No prob, mon chere Paola hug

Originally posted by Jury
Again from UXM.Net:


gambit2

what part of UXM is that I can't seem to find it

yeah, I have never seen it either

Originally posted by Phoenix_Avatar9
what part of UXM is that I can't seem to find it
Hmmm... Shall I say... From one of UXM.Net's editors. gambit2

No. False immortality. Besides he's dead.

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
No. False immortality. Besides he's dead.


Apocalypse is or was...seemingly immortal...kinda like Mumm-ra on Thundercats

Apoc is not an omega, "just" an alpha-external (bad enough,isn't it?)!

I think I have found proof, or very, very good evidance of storm being an omega. in extreme x-men storm and neal(thunderbird) are having conversation.

neal:rugue said you used to be a goddess?

storm:in the name yes, but I am not quite at that level

neal:joking?

storm just looks at him and smiles.

storm:the difference between humans and mutants is that we control the elements of time. something, something, something, I have even seen a few transcend beyond their pshyical limits(something like that but she is saying something like the description from uxn that jury gave). I MYSELF HAVE EXPIERENCED THAT.

^6she says that she has expierenced it so does that mean she is saying she is an omega? also something was said about not dying(i think) well also in extreme x-men, storm kind of died and when jkean tried to save her storm was with the spirits of her parents and told jean not to worry about her and that everything woulkd be fine. then when jean turned to normal, a little while after that storm came back to life(i am pretty sure she was dead) and had the memories of visiting her parnets spirit.

Conjecture does not equal proof. I know everyone wants their fave to be an omega (I've seen some try to suggest Wolverine... ) but until it is written that they are they aren't. Storm is not an omega she is simply a very powerful alpha.

BTW Apocalypse is not an External.

but she has admitted herself that she made the transcend and according to uxn to be an omega you have to make the transcend. sounds pretty on to me

I hope i clear up alot of questions with this...
Over the years various entities have classified mutants into three levels; Beta, Alpha, and Omega. A definite definition for these three levels has never been truly reached. In some cases there have been misinterpretations. The simplest way I can break it down is somewhat like this. A Beta Mutant is a mutant whose mutation affects their physical form. An Alpha Mutant is a mutant whose mutation involves some type of energy absorption or projection. An Omega Mutant is a mutant whose mutation affects the fundamental forces of the universe. Now any mutant has the potential to move up the ladder from Beta to Omega.

Originally posted by stassiss
An Omega Mutant is a mutant whose mutation affects the fundamental forces of the universe. Now any mutant has the potential to move up the ladder from Beta to Omega. Sorry but .

beta and alpha are in an entirely different classification system than omega. also, beta and alpha are not restricted to certain physical/genetic characteristics. cypher is an accepted beta with a non-physical power, beast is an accepted alpha with a physical power (not at all related to energy.) your clarification is undermined by continuity itself.

beta level is generally considered to be the passive/ineffectual mutations (including basic physical mutations like blue skin, or cypher's power,) though a no real definition has been made. alphas are generally accepted to be "better" mutations than betas, be that in terms of power or survival capabilities. in terms of apocalypse's considerations, alphas are those who are "fit to survive" within his mutant-dominated utopia.

omega are completely beyond those, not ranked as such due to power or strength/ability, but on the basis that they have unending potential (also described above as an ability to transcend/consciously explore the metaphysical.) you cannot move from beta/alpha to omega, and you could only really move from beta to alpha through secondary mutation. so you didn't really clear anything up...

I'm sorry wannabe but you seem to be lacking an understanding of what the phoenix force actually is.

You are right when you say it is the essence of creation and destruction but it is not in the form of a phoenix because Jean wants it to be. And she does not simply have a connection to some far off distent force that everyone can connect to, she has the essence of the phoenix force directly inside her and only one person can have it at one one given time.

What the phoenix force is has been explained in past comics a long time ago and it is not what you said it was, your explaination might be right in the ULTIMATE universe but I highly doubt it. Read this site (hem.passagen.se/hggblom1/phoenix/phoenix.htm) and try researching what the phoenix force really is.

Originally posted by eristole
ok it's not how "powerful" they are.

Alpha as we all know stands for beginning

Omega stands for END.

(if you don't believe me look it up.. i am the alpha and the omega(the bible.) .. the beginning and the end.)

what they are referring to is the mutant adaptions of their powers.

Alpha mutants would be, apocalypse, xavier, magneto, these types of mutants.. usualy referring to "old" and the most trained and most powerful..

omega usually refers to an end, the final adaptations of the powers.
like for example, say scott were to finally be able to control his optic blasts, and they were eventually mutated in his son to be the most powerful energy blasts and he had complete control over it.

like he could warp the energy to surround his body and protect him and shoot the energy any direction and control it.

he would be an omega level mutant, the end strain of mutation of that type of energy/power.

when they speak of omega level potential, they are referring to the fact that they could eventually learn and harness their power to it's ultimate potential.

hope that helps out a bit.


Here's a list of Omegas:
Apocalypse (Because the molecular control over his body and the fact he's immortal).
Iceman
Jean Grey
Hope
Mr. M
Vulcan
Legion
Elixir
Franklin Richards
Kid Omega
Rachel Summers
Storm (Possible Omega as mentioned by the Sentinels).