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Probably the thing I like most about Batman Begins is that to me it was surprisingly loyal to the comics. Nothing that important was simplified for the sake of the transition to the big screen. Crane working at Arkham isn't that different than him working at the university, and I guess I could handle Bruce getting training from Ra's. It's just that Ra's Al Ghul is supposed to be from the Middle East, not the East. Apart from that, there were heaps of names dropped in this movie. Falcone, Tzaz, Chill and Fox were among the more minor characters that would have been overlooked in the more glitzy, dumbed-down movies. Even when Batman is fighting Ra's at the end he slices his sword in half, which is a reference to the fact that Batman's sideblades are fifty times sharper than the sharpest katana sword. Were you satisfied with the way Begins catered to the hardcore fan? Do you like me think other elements of the production process were somewhat overlooked for this priority?

I did like the fan service. But the begaining ALMOST ruin it for me, it felt like watching the highlander. But once you get by that, it starts becoming a good Bat movie.

The only flaws in my view are Ra training Bats, and Scarcrow working at Arkham, and of couse being hired by Ra.

OTher than that is was ok.

DarkAge read the giant PM i sent you and post it here

OK.

quote:
DarkAge wrote on 07-22-2005 10:04 PM:
i've seen the movie twice and i cannot decide whether to give this movie the thumbs up or thumbs down. i think in some ways it achieved great things but in others it was kinda crap. i was curious what your reasons were for hating it?

"well, the movie skipped around time periods in the begining, everything was brown (am i the only one who noticed that? tell me im wrong) and the movie was to surreal, like it would make more sense if you watched it while high. ra's was always a cocky in-your-face guy. he wouldnt have had ubu pose as him, since he feared no man and, thus, no assassination attempt. they toned him down to much. he was supposed to snap and fight with rage at mankind. and scarecrow was a lacky? that sucked. and he was defeated by rachel with a tazer-gun. first, anyone who can take bats cant be stopped by a tazer. second, if this is this past, how come they have tazer guns? another thing, if the bat-car-thing (i cant call that thing the batmobile) was designed to build bridges, how come it had all that stealth,and missiles. and that raises the point that bat didnt design the stuff himself, which he should. that just takes away from his character, buying it like that. instead of a cool final fight with ra's, theres a short little duel on the train. and they kept repeating cool scenes, like the way batman does that swoop-down-and-grab-you thing...three times, all of them almost identical. more reasons but probly to long already. please spread these words to those that havent seen why this movie sux.and tell them it was me who said them.
oh, and i love all the previous movies and know everything about them, so this isnt some anti-batman thing. batman is my absolute FAVORITE superhero."

I have to say I agree that all those things you pointed out are flaws and the movie would have been much cooler without them. I think it could have been worse though.

Scarecrow wasn't defeated. He left. That's hardly a flaw.

People are too accustomed to the villains in these things to either be arrested or die in some sort of climactic battle. The new films are thankfully not providing us with a conveyor belt of villains that Batman fights, where he then kills or arrests like the in previous four. Instead, they interact on a bigger scale. Criminals interact with each other. This was one thing I loved in this movie. They didn't team up buddy-buddy, they simply used each other. Scarecrow was no lackey, and the door is still open for him to return, as this was his origin story too. He wasn't defeated, his employer was, Scarecrow is still at large.

People didn't complain about Darth Vader getting punked out at the end of Star Wars and then running off did they? Vader was still a bad-ass. What does the way in which Scarecrow escaped differ?

It wasn't a traditional crappy superhero flick where the hero shows up and does some damage to a villain then goes away. This movie is demonstrating the struggle Bruce has chosen to face, which means that these villains aren't going to come quietly. It isn't even conclusive that Ra's died anyway, which ties it brilliantly into the comics in that enemies tend to return.

Begins broke so many conventions of comic adaptation movies it really is quite innovative. It had all the elemnts of a blockbuster but wasn't afraid of shaking things up and keeping the fans happy while doing it. And considerring comic book fans can be die-hard @ssholes at the best of times, the movie achieved something great indeed.

Good points supe

People like Sam Raimi and Tim Burton can take a lesson from Nolan on how to make a good comicbook movie AND make it faithful to the comicbook and please the comicbook and moviegoer fans at the same time.I think if this Batman movie had been made in 89 it would have ecilpsed The 250 million Batman 89 made easily but because of the fact that it was the fourth Batman movie and it was promoted poorly,only the die hard fans were excited about the movie and not the general moviegoer audience which is what hurt it at the box office.I just saw Batman Begins today for the 5th time because like you said,it was a movie that unlike the other four Batman films,was loyal to to comic.A great Magical movie just like Superman one and two are.Nolan is truely a fans director. Thank god For him and Goyer,they were the perfect team.

i was psyched about the movie, all the way up until it was over that is. and scarecrow escapes, but he doesnt ESCAPE. he gets zapped and his horse runs away. he was obviously unconcious. and nolan must die!!! i will rally a small army thats for my cause and we'll show all of you!!!!

Originally posted by NoFate007
Good points supe

Yeah well said Supe.