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u ppl are probably gonna make fun of me in the worst way ever..i honestly don't give two Licks

Newayz: Did ne1 else realize that vader is a...how would u say pansie in the OT remebr in ANH when he is interrogating Leia...he askes her some questions which she obviosly doesn't know the questions to, and he goes "she's lying"...then he is a so called "Sith Lord" but then he goes and calls up a droid that has a fricking TRUTH SERUM IN ITS NEEDLES...JESUS CHRIST...he is supposed to be a master of force knowledge-ness (i honestly don't know the word in english) but seriously..what do you people think?

I think I like the picture in your sig.

thx

but wht do u think bout vader being a fraud

I think what's-his-face in ANH said it best when he said:

"Don't try to frighten us with your sorcerers ways, Lord Vader. Your sad devotion to that ancient religion has not helped you conjure up the stolen data tapes, or given you clair voyance enough to find the rebels hidden fortress..."

... and then got choked by Vader and owned in front of all his buddies.

w00t!

yeah but if he has so much of a mastery of the force why coulnd't he just sense where the tapes/base are?

For one, he could sense when the base was near, as he did on Hoth. I don't believe he can sense the tapes because they are non-living.

true..true...no excuses for that mistake

That's simple over-expectation of what the Force can do. Clearly the Emperor could not sense these things either so why should Vader?

Originally posted by DeVi| D0do
I think what's-his-face in ANH said it best when he said:

"Don't try to frighten us with your sorcerers ways, Lord Vader. Your sad devotion to that ancient religion has not helped you conjure up the stolen data tapes, or given you clair voyance enough to find the rebels hidden fortress..."

... and then got choked by Vader and owned in front of all his buddies.

w00t!
Tarkin

Originally posted by Ushgarak
That's simple over-expectation of what the Force can do. Clearly the Emperor could not sense these things either so why should Vader?

cause vader is more powerful than the emperor

Originally posted by yerssot
Tarkin

Not so. It was actually another officer who said that. Remember when he force-chokes him? Tarkin is the one who says " Vader, release him immediately!"

yeah, didn't read it entirely, just threw in a name

the guy he refers to is Motti

Originally posted by DeVi| D0do
I think what's-his-face in ANH said it best when he said:

"Don't try to frighten us with your sorcerers ways, Lord Vader. Your sad devotion to that ancient religion has not helped you conjure up the stolen data tapes, or given you clair voyance enough to find the rebels hidden fortress..."

... and then got choked by Vader and owned in front of all his buddies.

w00t!

w00t!!!!


As for you darth, your reasons for calling him a fraud are unprofound. They're poor reasons.
First off, she does know the questions. And the fact that he can't get the information from her is because "her resistance to the mind probe is considerable" (most likely because she is force sensitive. Besides with more time, as Vader said, he'd get the information from her.

But what about force persaude?

wait...wait ...<(-__-)>...leia isn't weak minded is she

Originally posted by david flood
cause vader is more powerful than the emperor

TOTALLY untrue. The Emperor is his Master and it has been specifically stated by GL that the Emperor is more powerful.

GL probably thought in 1977, "hey a floating interrogating droid with a syringe sticking out of it would be really cool!"
so he put it in there.

It is cool, I don't know about you. But my legs would be drowned in yellow liquid if such a big needle was inserted in me...

Everyone knows that Darth Vader is more powerful that the Emporer
he's the "chosen one" remember?

Even though I know in my mind that Sidious is more powerful.
The fact that Palpy admits to Anakin being even more powerful than Yoda and himself, and that he slowly backs off when Vader awakes in his new suit, suggest otherwise.

Originally posted by jeedai_moyco
Everyone knows that Darth Vader is more powerful that the Emporer
he's the "chosen one" remember?

Where does it say that the..."chosen one" is the most powerful?...he was supposed to bring balance to the force...he's not the most powerful...he only brought balnace to the force because he did some shady things guy...no1 could sense darkness in him during the jedi purge except yoda..and a litle bit of obi-wan near the end with the hologram where he goes " i need to be certain about one thing"...so sids is stronger than him

Originally posted by Ushgarak
TOTALLY untrue. The Emperor is his Master and it has been specifically stated by GL that the Emperor is more powerful.

Yet he was lifted up and thrown over the railing, screaming like a girl and not showing the slightest hint of resistance...

Breathtaking power...

Jedi/Sith aren't superheroes.

There's your explanation.

Originally posted by Lord Shadow Z
Yet he was lifted up and thrown over the railing, screaming like a girl and not showing the slightest hint of resistance...

Breathtaking power...
because he simply didn't thought Vader would turn against him, classic error for villains: underestimating the situation (cfr Tarkin)

dont think you can hide anything from Vader he is just a mindreading maniac. Try it out yourself: http://sithsense.com/flash.htm

Originally posted by Lord Shadow Z
Yet he was lifted up and thrown over the railing, screaming like a girl and not showing the slightest hint of resistance...

Breathtaking power...

All that does is simply confirm the point of not over-exaggerating powers. What 'powers' did Vader display there other than the ability to lift?

As Yerssot says, that was surprise, not power.

Originally posted by Ushgarak
All that does is simply confirm the point of not over-exaggerating powers. What 'powers' did Vader display there other than the ability to lift?

As Yerssot says, that was surprise, not power.


But even so the instinct of survival should override any initial surprise.

Vader didn't display any special powers in defeating the Emperor, he lifted him up, carried him a bit, and thrown him over the railing. Now thats my problem because it was so easy. Surely the Emperor could have sensed this and put up a fight; used a force push, flipped out of his arms and atacked, setting up one hell of a fight for survival. He is meant to be more powerful after all.

Also remember, Sith lords are evil, they tend to betray one another. Palpatine was standing there, trying to replace Vader with Luke while Vader was still alive. Its not that hard to figure out that Vader would be a little bit annoyed that the Emperor would ditch him so easily for Luke.

Also he was kind of frying his son alive, that tends to motivate even the most brainwashed of fathers.

No, actually, Palpatine was fatally overconfident and thought that Vader would never turn. That's just how it is I am afraid!

Yes, overconfidence played a part but the initial surprise of being picked up would not be able to stop him defending himself.

"You will not stop me. Darth Vader will become more powerful than either of us!"

High praise from the emperor.

Originally posted by Lord Shadow Z
Yes, overconfidence played a part but the initial surprise of being picked up would not be able to stop him defending himself.

Especially if he was more powerful.

Sorry, forgot to add that Ush.

Especially if he believed himself to be more powerful... These two never had a real showdown.

And raw power seems to mean very little in duels these days.

Palpatine said Vader would become more powerful BEFORE his injuries. The whole point is that Vaqder being crippled cost him his potential.

By the point the Emperor was taken by surprise, whayt did you want him to do? He was so shocked it cast him any initial reaction, and then he was hardly in a position to do much. The power of a force user to not be so affected should be in seeing it coming first- the whole point is that the Emperor could not.

Originally posted by Ushgarak
Palpatine said Vader would become more powerful BEFORE his injuries. The whole point is that Vaqder being crippled cost him his potential.

By the point the Emperor was taken by surprise, whayt did you want him to do? He was so shocked it cast him any initial reaction, and then he was hardly in a position to do much. The power of a force user to not be so affected should be in seeing it coming first- the whole point is that the Emperor could not.

Oh come on Ush! After watching ROTS we've seen him battle strenously against Mace Windu and Yoda so its seems a little odd to see him rendered so helpless by Vader when all Vader does is pick him up and surprise him a little (another cause of backward filming, but it still stands to reason if he's more powerful).
He could have directed the lightning directly into Vader's head, force-pushed him away, force-grabbed Luke's lightsaber-any number of things but instead he screamed as if Vader was shoving a red-hot poker up his ass.

P.S.How by being physically crippled would disrupt Anakin's potential?
The force isn't determined by physical attributes you know.

Vader was filled with Lightning all the way- it's what killed him. Trouble is, Lightning is never an instant death.

And it was becoming half-metal that reduced Vader's power. This is direct from GL in his DVD commentary. The moment Obi-Wan beat him, any potential Anakin had was massively reduced.

Sorry, but it is a canon fact.

Yeah you just can't argue with it.

Originally posted by Tangible God
Yeah you just can't argue with it.

I can't argue with the Anakin-loss of power thing (probably because I don't care) but I don't believe that the Emperor is more powerful than Vader when GL does nothing to prove it when it matters the most.

Anyway to him Star Wars is still an ongoing project so everyday he's going to sit up and go " what shall I say this time, on this DVD commentary that will make no sense but its true because I said so"
I don't watch or own the digitally re-mastered DVDs because I want the film to get across who is more powerful, who is annoying, who is heroic etc. When someone pulls a quote from Lucas that came probably after the films that doesn't necessarily win an arguement because I believe the only time he tells the story is in the film and thats what I concentrate on.

If the Emperor was more powerful than Vader then he should have killed Vader quickly or at least fought together in some kind of battle that eventually leads to both of them dying. What happened in the film made no sense, the Emperor was effectively neutered by being picked up.

Not that its said in the movies, but isn't the stronger sith supposed to be the master?

starwars But its the way of the sith to kill the master to become more powerful in the revenge of the sith game if you kill obi wan with anakin you get a different ending where anakin gets a red lightsaber and and then goes on to kill the emperor.

Originally posted by Lord Shadow Z
I can't argue with the Anakin-loss of power thing (probably because I don't care) but I don't believe that the Emperor is more powerful than Vader when GL does nothing to prove it when it matters the most.

Anyway to him Star Wars is still an ongoing project so everyday he's going to sit up and go " what shall I say this time, on this DVD commentary that will make no sense but its true because I said so"
I don't watch or own the digitally re-mastered DVDs because I want the film to get across who is more powerful, who is annoying, who is heroic etc. When someone pulls a quote from Lucas that came probably after the films that doesn't necessarily win an arguement because I believe the only time he tells the story is in the film and thats what I concentrate on.

If the Emperor was more powerful than Vader then he should have killed Vader quickly or at least fought together in some kind of battle that eventually leads to both of them dying. What happened in the film made no sense, the Emperor was effectively neutered by being picked up.

It could probably have done with more detail, true- an issue with ROTJ.

But the facts are still the facts., It is, in fact, vital, because as GL explains, the Emperor wants Luke purely because he thinks that Luke could actually fulfill the potential that Anakin now never could. Anakin doesn't have that power- and Vader CLEARLY indicates in the film that his Master is more powerful, as does Yoda indicate the Emperor is superior.

It's a movie, Shadow Z, not divine mandate, just accept it and get on with your ner-do-well life.

Originally posted by Ushgarak


But the facts are still the facts., It is, in fact, vital, because as GL explains, the Emperor wants Luke purely because he thinks that Luke could actually fulfill the potential that Anakin now never could. Anakin doesn't have that power- and Vader CLEARLY indicates in the film that his Master is more powerful, as does Yoda indicate the Emperor is superior.

Okay, that makes sense.

Originally posted by Tangible God
It's a movie, Shadow Z, not divine mandate, just accept it and get on with your ner-do-well life.

I can discuss or debate whatever the hell I like.

starwars That's why its a forum so you can post what ever you feel like and to hell with whatever someone else thinks.

I think Michael Jackson was innocent................. WELL?

Originally posted by Tangible God
I think Michael Jackson was innocent................. WELL?

Then thats your right, shout it from the clouds if you like but this isn't the place to.

Just because YOU get tired of a certain topic doesn't give you the right to accuse me of reading too much into a subject. There are people who start of the most pointless threads or argue strange points and do they get targeted? No, because there's this acceptance of banal threads from people who are friends of the Mods and they are therefore untouchable.

The first time when Ush couldn't argue my point properly on my " Why can't Obi-Wan interfere" thread he got all high and mighty and accused me of reading too much into it and HE was the one to back off when I got support from other members.

This is the second time I've refused to let an arguement go and got pulled up for it. I'm not a Star Wars fanboy, I don't sit in a dark room and watch the films again and again, I don't sit for hours at my computer and memorise quotes from George Lucas. I just LIKE the films and when something annoys me about them the forum is usually the place I go to discuss them with accepting people- not people like you however who has posted here enough times to understand what a forum should be like.

Hah! Watch that ego trip there, boy- I didn't back off for one moment, I just get bored with things sometimes. You were talking as much rubbish there as you have been here.

Now, I had no problem with you in this thread, but NOW you have started, for no reason, to cross the line. That above post is inflammatory, and also patently untrue on both accusations.

This is an official warning to you. If you have troubles like that, keep them in private. Carry on around with some chip on your shoulder like that and you will be banned.

Oh, and Tangible- best you don't just push people's buttons for no reason, thanks.

Closed.